16.37 Wrote:Questioner: I am assuming that it is not necessary for an individual to understand the Law of One to go from the third to the fourth density. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. It is absolutely necessary that an entity consciously realize it does not understand in order for it to be harvestable. Understanding is not of this density.

16.38 Wrote:Questioner: That is a very important point. I used the wrong word. What I meant to say was that I believed that it was not necessary for an entity to be consciously aware of the Law of One to go from the third to the fourth density.

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct.

(03-02-2010, 03:00 AM)Questioner Wrote: To claim that we know for sure is to deny that we don't know, and therefore to try to wash away faith by pouring on ignorance or arrogance.

(03-02-2010, 02:13 AM)Peregrinus Wrote: if a wanderer told a 3D entity of the LOO and the 3D entity then transformed their life to be harvestable, would this leave them as unharvestable, simply because they knew about it.

(03-02-2010, 03:00 AM)Questioner Wrote: I like this thread.

I take the passage to mean that in this density of existence, faith is necessary because we don't get certainty - perhaps due to the veil.

Before you can choose to have faith, you need to recognize that there is not enough evidence for either reason or emotion to draw a conclusion with certainty. Only at this point of emptiness can the Will of one's Spirit take its stand.

Any understanding we have of spiritual matters from "down inside here" (I picture kids reading with flashlights under the covers) is only a tentative way to imagine what we can only take on faith.

To claim that we know for sure is to deny that we don't know, and therefore to try to wash away faith by pouring on ignorance or arrogance.

Humility, awe, an emptying of certainty: these are symptoms to help diagnose a presence of faith.

(03-01-2010, 12:18 PM)Lavazza Wrote: Non-understanding is "absolutely necessary".

(03-08-2010, 09:22 PM)thefool Wrote:

Quote Ra Wrote:The progress is normally from the understanding which you now seek to a dimension of understanding which is governed by the laws of love, and which seeks the laws of light. Those who are vibrating with the Law of Light seek the Law of One. Those who vibrate with the Law of One seek the Law of Foreverness.

(03-09-2010, 11:03 AM)thefool Wrote: I think Ra is talking about the understanding of the Law of One. This understanding is not an object that we will get after a point in evolution. It is a process of distillation of Law of One one step at a time . Every density offers the opportunity of a different aspect of Law of One understanding. Even the first density has some understanding of Law of One. They don't consciously realize it.

(03-09-2010, 11:03 AM)thefool Wrote: Here is my view of the density understanding chart:

Intelligent Infinity - Complete Understanding of Law of One/ No Understanding/ No Distortions / Nothingness

(03-09-2010, 11:03 AM)thefool Wrote: 1st Density - Understanding of life as Elements
2nd Density - Understanding of life as Plant/Animals
3rd Density - Understanding the Choice between STS and STO
4th Density - Understanding the Understanding (also called Love)
5th Density - Understanding the Light
6th Density - Understanding the Unity
7th Density - Understanding the Foreverness

(03-10-2010, 01:12 AM)Peregrinus Wrote: One hundred thousand? One million? At any rate, few of the 6.8 billion know of it, hence are in the state of non-understanding.

(03-10-2010, 01:12 AM)Peregrinus Wrote: Brother, I did not think I insinuated that understanding is an object.

(03-10-2010, 01:12 AM)Peregrinus Wrote: Intelligent infinity is The One Infinite Creator, as is all densities, as is ALL of Creation, ALL THAT IS. To say that it is of no understanding and nothingness is... impossible, for if non-understanding does exist, then it is part of creation, and if nothingness does exist, it is part of creation.

(03-10-2010, 12:55 PM)thefool Wrote:

(03-10-2010, 01:12 AM)Peregrinus Wrote: Brother, I did not think I insinuated that understanding is an object.

I was just clarifying a point about the understanding. I did not mean or mention any specific individual or individuals.

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(03-10-2010, 01:12 AM)Peregrinus Wrote: Intelligent infinity is The One Infinite Creator, as is all densities, as is ALL of Creation, ALL THAT IS. To say that it is of no understanding and nothingness is... impossible, for if non-understanding does exist, then it is part of creation, and if nothingness does exist, it is part of creation.

Yes. Exactly.

Intelligent infinity contains all including the opposites. It contains understanding and it should contain non-understanding as well. It also contains everything and nothing. Actually any understanding suggests a distortion. Until there is light there will be darkness. They are both the opposite ends of the same spectrum.

Although this is unrelated to the current 'understanding' discussion. I intentionally threw it in my density chart to tickle some brain waves...

Quote:The kingdom of the spirit is a dark one. And we say this not because darkness is evil, for darkness is not evil. We say this because it is the nature of spirit within third density to be largely impossible to see.

Quote:Each of you will spend the incarnational time that you have in this estate of peering into darkness using seemingly the dimmest of lights, occasionally receiving that lightning, that bolt of epiphany that speaks, that is as the star that guides, that brings that moment of clarity and spiritual truth that is so blessed.

Quote:The metaphysical work both of the service-to-others path and the service-to-self path is that which takes place upon a field which appears to be dark. The background of metaphysical work for both polarities is a metaphysical environment of darkness, for the metaphysical consciousness of the living spirit within the third-density illusion is hidden within the deep and unlit roots of mind. Consequently, both those who seek the darkness and those who seek the light begin in a common ground of darkness, the darkness of that which is not known. Upon this level of seeking for energy or power the search for truth is conducted in night conditions. The moon’s dimmest light is the brightest illumination as one seeks spiritually. It is extremely subtle and difficult work to distinguish truth from illusion or outright falsity, to distinguish the positive leaning towards the love of the Infinite One in service to others from the same activity which may seek service to self. Many metaphysical seekers expect that the seeking towards the positive truth will be done in noonday sun, metaphysically speaking. This is untrue. The metaphysical search is not clear, obvious, or simple.

Quote:Ra: I am Ra. In the mind complex the matrix may be described as consciousness. It has been called the Magician. It is to be noted that of itself consciousness is unmoved. The potentiator of consciousness is the unconscious. This encompasses a vast realm of potential in the mind.

In the body the matrix may be seen as Balanced Working or Even Functioning. Note that here the matrix is always active with no means of being inactive. The potentiator of the body complex, then, may be called Wisdom for it is only through judgment that the unceasing activities and proclivities of the body complex may be experienced in useful modes.

The Matrix of the Spirit is what you may call the Night of the Soul or Primeval Darkness. Again we have that which is not capable of movement or work. The potential power of this extremely receptive matrix is such that the potentiator may be seen as Lightning. In your archetypical system called the tarot this has been refined into the concept complex of the Lightning Struck Tower. However, the original potentiator was light in its sudden and fiery form; that is, the lightning itself.

Quote:There is a constant organic and mutual back and forth of information between the Matrix who reaches and the Potentiator who awaits the reaching. And all that is hidden within the Potentiator changes every time the Potentiator releases fruit from behind that veil. That is the hidden nature of things unknown. One person on one day shall receive fruit from spirit. That same person on another day with just the tiniest change in seeking, in attitude, in state of mind, shall receive an entirely different fruit. So we cannot offer the comfortable assurance that all is in safe hands, that all is prepared, that all will go one way. The archetypal journey is far more creative and far more plastic.

Quote:The darkness of the spirit is like unto the darkness, the apparent darkness, of the starry heavens. As you gaze from the side of your planet out into your outer space, that thick velvet of infinite space is as are you in your spiritual aspect: an undiscovered country of hills and valleys unknown. And every place is sacred. And every place is full of information. And every place looks to be that which it is not. There is thick darkness and great depth of unknowingness to the spirit within third density. The veil of forgetting is very deep. And the life-giving light, when it falls, yet does it not always disclose truth. And so there is a great peering into what light there is to see beyond the falsity of the complex and intricate patterns of spirit. Even when the veil of forgetting is lifted, even when you ascend into densities which are full of light, yet still that spirit is stubbornly unknown, and layers of misinformation and false patterning will fall away as the densities roll, and we find this still to be true with our selves. We find we still peel away another layer and another layer of that deception of spirit which is part and parcel of the situation which we all enjoy as part of the Creator. It is not that the Creator intends to deceive. It is not that the light means to be false. It is that there is so much of untold riches to the infinite Creator that It is not all articulated. There is much still for the Creator to know about Itself. And yet that seeking is a slow, slow process. For all that the Creator finds out about Itself, It finds out from you, each of you, each of us, each of all of those entities that live and move and have their being within the creation of the Father. We find great beauty in this pattern. We do not understand it completely. As each of you works with your own spiritual journey we ask simply that you not fear the light-bringer who brings seeming destruction. For there must be that taken down as a preparation for that which is builded anew. There needs to be the removal of false concepts before the building of a fresh and vital concept.

Quote:When the infinite Creator wished to know Itself, Its great heart beat out the next creation with all of its densities and sub-densities and all of the patterns of those densities and creations. Time and space were invoked and that which before was immeasurable and unknowable became a series of illusions that, paradoxically, were to some degree knowable, and these shadows of knowing were much desired by the Creator. And each of these sparks and shadows became agents of the one infinite Creator, thoughts in and of themselves, thoughts rounded and centered in the one great original Thought which is Love. And so each of you is a Logos, stepped down and stepped down until you are able to experience the very illusion you now experience. And each of you has come through many experiences and many densities to this particular time, at this particular place, each balanced exquisitely in the present moment.

And as each rests in this present moment, what is the nature of each? Each is Logos and yet not Logos, not fully realized. Each is human, earthly and limited, and yet not fully human, not fully earthly, and not fully limited, for there is the growing awareness of the creatorship within. And so each is as an entity with one foot in each world, the world of the Earth and the world of infinity; the world of things and the world of thoughts.

Quote:Questioner: Then we have, at the beginning of this galactic evolution, an archetypical mind that is the product of the previous octave which this galaxy then used as and acts upon under the first distortion so as to allow for what we experience as polarity. Was there any concept of polarity carried through from the previous octave in the sense of service-to-others or service-to-self polarity?

Ra: I am Ra. There was polarity in the sense of the mover and the moved. There was no polarity in the sense of service-to-self and service-to-others.

Quote:Questioner: Do the Logoi that choose this type of evolution choose both the service-to-self and the service-to-others path for different Logoi, or do they choose just one of the paths?

Ra: I am Ra. Those, what you would call, early Logoi which chose lack of free will foundations, to all extents with no exceptions, founded Logoi of the service-to-others path. The, shall we say, saga of polarity, its consequences and limits, were unimagined until experienced.

Quote:I am guessing that in our Milky Way Galaxy (the major galaxy with billions of stars) that the progress of evolution was from the center outward toward the rim and that in the early evolution of this galaxy the first distortion was not extended down past the sub-Logos simply because it was not thought of or conceived of and that this extension of the first distortion, which created polarization, was something that occurred in what we would call a later time as the evolution progressed outward from the center of the galaxy. Am I in any way correct in this statement?

Ra: I am Ra. You are correct.

Quote:Questioner: So the original evolution then was planned by the Logos but the first distortion was not extended to the product. At some point this first distortion was extended and the first service-to-self polarity emerged. Is this correct and if so, could you tell me the history of this process of emergence?

Ra: I am Ra. As proem let me state that the Logoi always conceived of themselves as offering free will to the sub-Logoi in their care. The sub-Logoi had freedom to experience and experiment with consciousness, the experiences of the body, and the illumination of the spirit. That having been said, we shall speak to the point of your query.

The first Logos to instill what you now see as free will, in the full sense, in its sub-Logoi came to this creation due to contemplation in depth of the concepts or possibilities of conceptualizations of what we have called the significators. The Logos posited the possibility of the mind, the body, and the spirit as being complex. In order for the significator to be what it is not, it then must be granted the free will of the Creator. This set in motion a quite lengthy, in your terms, series of Logos’s improving or distilling this seed thought. The key was the significator becoming a complex.

Quote:Ra: I am Ra. As you have noted, [quote]the creation of which your Logos is a part is a protean entity which grows and learns upon a macrocosmic scale. The Logos is not a part of time. All that is learned from experience in an octave is, therefore, the harvest of that Logos and is further the nature of that Logos.

The original Logos’s experience was, viewed in space/time, small; Its experience now, more. Therefore we say, as we now speak to you at this space/time, the nature of creation is as we have described. This does not deny the process by which this nature has been achieved but merely ratifies the product.

(03-10-2010, 10:30 PM)thefool Wrote: First there was understanding of understanding. Then there was understanding of no-understanding. That caused no-understanding of understanding. And to finally mess things up came the no-understanding of no-understanding.

(03-11-2010, 12:22 PM)Lavazza Wrote: Interestingly, this discussion is getting closer and closer to a story I heard of a Buddhist master and his apprentice. The apprentice says one day to his master "Master, you are wise and enlightened. Please teach me to become like you". To which the master responded, "To become enlightened, you must cease trying". So the young Buddhist went off and did his best to cease his struggles and become detached from outcome. He returned a while later, "Master, I have perfected the art of not trying", and the master replied "Ah, but you have been trying harder than ever to cease trying! You must now cease trying to cease trying."