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+---- Thread: Does eating meat preclude graduation to 4th D STO? (/showthread.php?tid=10515)
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Does eating meat preclude graduation to 4th D STO? - Jim Kent + - 03-08-2015
To put it simply, in my experience, the answer is NO!
RE: Does eating meat preclude graduation to 4th D STO? - darklight - 03-08-2015
(03-08-2015, 05:30 PM)Jim Kent + Wrote: To put it simply, in my experience, the answer is NO!
It can decrease your STO polarity.
RE: Does eating meat preclude graduation to 4th D STO? - AnthroHeart - 03-08-2015
I think our thoughts about what we eat can be worse than the diet itself.
Jim Kent I can tell you are a very positive being.
RE: Does eating meat preclude graduation to 4th D STO? - Minyatur - 03-08-2015
Some bible quote about this
Quote:Romans 14
[font=Arial]1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.[/font]
[font=Arial]2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.[/font]
[font=Arial]3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
[/font]...
[font=Arial]19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.[/font]
[font=Arial]20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.[/font]
[font=Arial]21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.[/font]
[font=Arial]22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.[/font]
[font=Arial]23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.[/font]
RE: Does eating meat preclude graduation to 4th D STO? - AnthroHeart - 03-08-2015
Everything in the bible is sin. The Simpsons said that going to the bathroom is a sin.
RE: Does eating meat preclude graduation to 4th D STO? - Minyatur - 03-08-2015
(03-08-2015, 07:45 PM)Gemini Wolf Wrote: Everything in the bible is sin. The Simpsons said that going to the bathroom is a sin.
This passage meant that going against what you think is right is sin. It says to do things in faith and not with doubts. I thought it went well with what you said about thoughts. The bible usually focus on the intentions, what's in the heart. Like John 3:15 that says : "Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him."
How one view sin is up to him, in my view sin is going against the current of your spiritual progression and differs from one to another.
If you think of sin as an action against your own self. Eating meat without faith and while having doubts indeed would hurt your soul.
RE: Does eating meat preclude graduation to 4th D STO? - AnthroHeart - 03-08-2015
On that case, it does make sense. I don't think about faith when I'm eating though.
RE: Does eating meat preclude graduation to 4th D STO? - Minyatur - 03-08-2015
(03-08-2015, 08:15 PM)Gemini Wolf Wrote: On that case, it does make sense. I don't think about faith when I'm eating though.
Because you have no doubts. If you'd be eating while always having doubts about wether it's wrong or not then that'd be without faith and the passage says you shouldn't do it until you're convinced of something whatever it is.
I think that's why STS is acceptable to Intelligent Infinity, it's still taking a stand and doing what you think is right ultimately.
I did not give the bible quote as something absolute, it is something I found insightful a few years back when I knew not of the LOO. Yet the LOO is still what I was perceiving and understanding through the bible. The passage also says that neither are actually good or wrong, and that you shouldn't judge those that do otherwise than you. Being truthful to yourself is what's important.
RE: Does eating meat preclude graduation to 4th D STO? - tamaryn - 03-08-2015
Service to Vegetables.
RE: Does eating meat preclude graduation to 4th D STO? - Diana - 03-09-2015
(03-08-2015, 05:30 PM)Jim Kent + Wrote: To put it simply, in my experience, the answer is NO!
And what is your experience? Are you a 4D individual?
I'm not sure why everyone is so concerned about "graduation." It reminds me of the educational system today, where kids study to pass tests by cramming facts (and don't really learn) so they can graduate and get into a good college. It also reminds me of Christians who follow rules so they can get into heaven.
I agree with Minyatur and Gemini that it is what you feel or think that is the issue. Why are so many in this forum bringing up the idea of eating meat? I think it's fine to do so, but what I think one must ask one's self is this: How do I really FEEL about eating animals, and listen to your heart.
For me, eating animals, whom I consider to be my sisters and brothers, is simply not something I can do, for so many reasons. That's how I feel.
RE: Does eating meat preclude graduation to 4th D STO? - Jim Kent + - 03-09-2015
(03-09-2015, 11:09 AM)Diana Wrote:(03-08-2015, 05:30 PM)Jim Kent + Wrote: To put it simply, in my experience, the answer is NO!
And what is your experience? Are you a 4D individual?
Greetings Diana,
In 2005 Q'uo said to me:
"You are a true species of your own", which I interpret as them saying that I am dual-activated, so yes, in part I am a 4th density entity, with two 6th density souls.
I believe that I activated my green-ray centre when I was 15 years old ( nearly 30 years ago ), after spending my entire life eating meat.
I have come to the conclusion that my own personal ethics regarding eating meat centre around what I could kill to eat. I do not think that I could kill a cow or pig which is why I have stopped eating them. I do believe that I could kill a fish or a chicken to eat which is why I currently eat them. I intend testing this theory soon to see if I can cope with the reality of killing a chicken for food, and if I can't, then I will stop eating them as well!
L & L
Jim
RE: Does eating meat preclude graduation to 4th D STO? - Diana - 03-09-2015
(03-09-2015, 11:14 AM)Jim Kent + Wrote: Greetings Diana,
In 2005 Q'uo said to me:
"You are a true species of your own", which I interpret as them saying that I am dual-activated, so yes, in part I am a 4th density entity, with two 6th density souls.
L & L
Jim
Q'uo spoke to you?
RE: Does eating meat preclude graduation to 4th D STO? - Jim Kent + - 03-09-2015
(03-09-2015, 11:29 AM)Diana Wrote:(03-09-2015, 11:14 AM)Jim Kent + Wrote: Greetings Diana,
In 2005 Q'uo said to me:
"You are a true species of your own", which I interpret as them saying that I am dual-activated, so yes, in part I am a 4th density entity, with two 6th density souls.
L & L
Jim
Q'uo spoke to you?
Yes, through Carla when she visited Britain in 2005 and I had a personal session with them.
http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/issues/2005/2005_0614.aspx
RE: Does eating meat preclude graduation to 4th D STO? - Ankh - 03-09-2015
(03-09-2015, 11:14 AM)Jim Kent + Wrote: I do not think that I could kill a cow or pig which is why I have stopped eating them. I do believe that I could kill a fish or a chicken to eat which is why I currently eat them. I intend testing this theory soon to see if I can cope with the reality of killing a chicken for food, and if I can't, then I will stop eating them as well!
Hi sweety,
You do as you wish. I just wanted to voice my personal opinion about what you wrote above, and that is - repressing the self from for instance eating the meat/chicken/fish is far more depolarizing than actually eating the meat/chicken/fish. But that's just my opinion.
Lots of love to you and good luck in whatever you choose!
RE: Does eating meat preclude graduation to 4th D STO? - Shemaya - 03-09-2015
Hi Ankh and Jim,
I agree, repression is depolarizing. Also doing something purely by willpower, to control the body, I would think is depolarizing ( as per se with our diets, especially to lose weight for instance. ) The body needs TLC, and willful control will hamper the joyful self - love that helps us to thrive .
RE: Does eating meat preclude graduation to 4th D STO? - Diana - 03-09-2015
(03-09-2015, 06:39 PM)Shemaya Wrote: Hi Ankh and Jim,
I agree, repression is depolarizing. Also doing something purely by willpower, to control the body, I would think is depolarizing ( as per se with our diets, especially to lose weight for instance. ) The body needs TLC, and willful control will hamper the joyful self - love that helps us to thrive .
Are you saying a person should just indulge every whim?
Regarding diet, we are probably all somewhat addicted to things such as sugar and junk food simply by being born into recent generations (at least in the U.S.). Should someone just indulge a whim (based on addiction) when that person recognizes they are feeding their body junk? In this case wouldn't it be more efficacious to "control" the body and feed it good food until the body ceases to crave junk, even though it won't create joy while the body is adjusting? Even doing this with love will probably not make the body comfortable if it is craving sugar, alcohol, junk food, etc.
RE: Does eating meat preclude graduation to 4th D STO? - Shemaya - 03-09-2015
(03-09-2015, 07:59 PM)Diana Wrote: Are you saying a person should just indulge every whim?
No, I said TLC, which is tender loving care. Do you think TLC is indulging every whim? I don't.
To me, loving care would promote health and wellness on a physical and emotional/ psychological basis. Indulging every whim would likely lead to decreased wellness on both physical and psyche levels.
Edit: I am talking about a loving and compassionate connection to one's body.
RE: Does eating meat preclude graduation to 4th D STO? - Shemaya - 03-09-2015
Also, regarding addictions, it would be most efficacious to treat the underlying cause of addiction. This would be within the mental and emotional aspects of oneself. Controlling the addiction, which is a symptom of something deeper, is depolarizing.
In order to polarize, the cause of the symptoms would need to be healed and cleared. This is very likely mental/ emotional or physical distortions or blockages ( for lack of a better word)
RE: Does eating meat preclude graduation to 4th D STO? - cnymicaa - 03-09-2015
I an chiming in, only to say I believe plants and animals are equally alive, and for myself I try to be mindful that no matter what I eat, it gave its life for me and I am thankful. I hunt, and before I hunt I pray and ask the Creator to send an animal willing to give its life to feed me and my family. If a deer steps out broadside in range, I presume that is the one and take my shot. I process it with my husband and waste as little as possible. I also approach the kill with reverence and thank it. I raise chickens as well, for eggs and meat. I take the meat birds to a kind impoverished Christian woman in the country who does the killing with her husband. While I am pretty sure I could do that myself if need be, I am thankful to her and know she appreciates the chance to earn some cash to care for her family. I also thank the plants in my garden as I harvest them.
RE: Does eating meat preclude graduation to 4th D STO? - AnthroHeart - 03-09-2015
(03-09-2015, 08:38 PM)cnymicaa Wrote: I an chiming in, only to say I believe plants and animals are equally alive, and for myself I try to be mindful that no matter what I eat, it gave its life for me and I am thankful. I hunt, and before I hunt I pray and ask the Creator to send an animal willing to give its life to feed me and my family. If a deer steps out broadside in range, I presume that is the one and take my shot. I process it with my husband and waste as little as possible. I also approach the kill with reverence and thank it. I raise chickens as well, for eggs and meat. I take the meat birds to a kind impoverished Christian woman in the country who does the killing with her husband. While I am pretty sure I could do that myself if need be, I am thankful to her and know she appreciates the chance to earn some cash to care for her family. I also thank the plants in my garden as I harvest them.
That's so natural, and so compassionate.
RE: Does eating meat preclude graduation to 4th D STO? - Minyatur - 03-09-2015
Are STO 4D worlds a 100% polarized? If not I guess lots of things can happen in so many different worlds.
In my view the killing of the animal would happen wether or not I consume it in such a huge market. This is human ways and it's part of the lot of experiences this planet provides to Infinity. I am thankful for what I eat and perceive that how the annimal died is it's own experience even if I wouldn't have given it death personally. I also think death isn't something as real as the veil makes it seem, this version of the Creator will eventually progress into the higher stage of consciousness as we all are.
The souls that incarnate here and live their own experiences do so by the first distortion which is free will. There is nothing that happens that is not agreed upon by the Creator experiencing it. Consciousness is born where it's needed experiences will be provided.
RE: Does eating meat preclude graduation to 4th D STO? - AnthroHeart - 03-09-2015
(03-09-2015, 09:00 PM)Minyatur Wrote: Are STO 4D worlds a 100% polarized?
47.6 Questioner: Well, what I was actually asking was if 50% is required for graduation from third to fourth in the positive sense, 95% is required for graduation in the negative sense, does this have to more closely approach 100% in both cases for graduation from fourth to fifth? Does an entity have to be 99% polarized for negative and maybe 80% polarized for positive graduation from fourth to fifth?
Ra: I am Ra. We perceive the query now.
To give this in your terms is misleading for there are, shall we say, visual aids or training aids available in fourth density which automatically aid the entity in polarization while cutting down extremely upon the quick effect of catalyst. Thus the density above yours must take up more space/time.
The percentage of service to others of positively oriented entities will harmoniously approach 98% in intention. The qualifications for fifth density, however, involve understanding. This then, becomes the primary qualification for graduation from fourth to fifth density. To achieve this graduation the entity must be able to understand the actions, the movements, and the dance. There is no percentage describable which measures this understanding. It is a measure of efficiency of perception. It may be measured by light. The ability to love, accept, and use a certain intensity of light thus creates the requirement for both positive and negative fourth to fifth harvesting.
RE: Does eating meat preclude graduation to 4th D STO? - Minyatur - 03-10-2015
I'm starting to find all this STO/STS path illogical but it seems to be part of the experiences of this Octave, gotta bring to Infinity what this Octave is meant to bring. Though if we loose polarity in 7D it means we need to polarize a lot for a while to only then realize the lacking of said polarization. Love it!
RE: Does eating meat preclude graduation to 4th D STO? - Jade - 03-10-2015
(03-09-2015, 07:59 PM)Diana Wrote:(03-09-2015, 06:39 PM)Shemaya Wrote: Hi Ankh and Jim,
I agree, repression is depolarizing. Also doing something purely by willpower, to control the body, I would think is depolarizing ( as per se with our diets, especially to lose weight for instance. ) The body needs TLC, and willful control will hamper the joyful self - love that helps us to thrive .
Are you saying a person should just indulge every whim?
Regarding diet, we are probably all somewhat addicted to things such as sugar and junk food simply by being born into recent generations (at least in the U.S.). Should someone just indulge a whim (based on addiction) when that person recognizes they are feeding their body junk? In this case wouldn't it be more efficacious to "control" the body and feed it good food until the body ceases to crave junk, even though it won't create joy while the body is adjusting? Even doing this with love will probably not make the body comfortable if it is craving sugar, alcohol, junk food, etc.
Quote:18.5 Questioner: Thank you. I have a question here from Jim that I will read verbatim: “Much of the mystic tradition of seeking on Earth holds that belief that the individual self must be erased or obliterated and the material world ignored for an entity to reach ‘nirvana,’ as it’s called, or enlightenment. What is the proper role of the individual self and its worldly activities in aiding an entity to grow more into the Law of One?”
Ra: I am Ra. The proper role of the entity is in this density to experience all things desired, to then analyze, understand, and accept these experiences, distilling from them the love/light within them. Nothing shall be overcome. That which is not needed falls away.
The orientation develops due to analysis of desire. These desires become more and more distorted towards conscious application of love/light as the entity furnishes itself with distilled experience. We have found it to be inappropriate in the extreme to encourage the overcoming of any desires, except to suggest the imagination rather than the carrying out in the physical plane, as you call it, of those desires not consonant with the Law of One; this preserving the primal distortion of free will.
The reason it is unwise to overcome is that overcoming is an unbalanced action creating difficulties in balancing in the time/space continuum. Overcoming thus creates the further environment for holding onto that which apparently has been overcome.
All things are acceptable in the proper time for each entity, and in experiencing, in understanding, in accepting, in then sharing with other-selves, the appropriate description shall be moving away from distortions of one kind to distortions of another which may be more consonant with the Law of One.
It is, shall we say, a shortcut to simply ignore or overcome any desire. It must instead be understood and accepted. This takes patience and experience which can be analyzed with care, with compassion for self and for other-self.
According to Ra, one should just indulge themselves until their feelings change. Everyone will come to a point where they will stop eating meat - eventually - to be here. As with everything else, I've found acceptance is truly the fastest route to transformation. I accept that others eat meat, but I prefer a world where one doesn't eat meat. That's the world I've created for myself. Other people eating meat doesn't infringe on my world.
I was a carnivore up until the day I watched Forks Over Knives, upon which when it was over my husband and I had both already decided to quit. Honestly it was more of a health-based decision - compassion for ourselves, really. Linda McCartney (Paul McCartney's wife) said in an interview that the two of them were having lamb for lunch one day, and looked outside to the pastures on their farm and saw the little baby lambs frolicking, and from that day forward quit. It can really be an instant decision but no one else is going to make it for you. And when the switch flips, it flips! Of course for some it gradually flips back (because participating in eating customs turns out to be a service to others...) I'm grateful to people who just reduce their meat consumption, or choose more ethical products to consume. People are slowly waking up to the horrors of our commercial farming system which is really the villain here, not the ignorant-by-choice-and-slightly-addicted consumer.
RE: Does eating meat preclude graduation to 4th D STO? - BlatzAdict - 03-10-2015
umm i think it depends on what you do to bless the food before you eat it.
additionally these bodies don't support non meat eating easily unless you know everything there is on how to feed nutrients to the body without meat. so it's a long process of development.
RE: Does eating meat preclude graduation to 4th D STO? - BlatzAdict - 03-10-2015
(03-10-2015, 10:45 AM)BlatzAdict Wrote: umm i think it depends on what you do to bless the food before you eat it.
additionally these bodies don't support non meat eating easily unless you know everything there is on how to feed nutrients to the body without meat. so it's a long process of development.
RE: Does eating meat preclude graduation to 4th D STO? - Patrick - 03-10-2015
Most wanderers eat meat and are from 4d and above...
RE: Does eating meat preclude graduation to 4th D STO? - AnthroHeart - 03-10-2015
(03-10-2015, 04:43 PM)Patrick Wrote: Most wanderers eat meat and are from 4d and above...
I eat meat and I have no qualms about it.
RE: Does eating meat preclude graduation to 4th D STO? - AnthroHeart - 03-10-2015
What if in a past life I gave myself to be meat for a 3D entity?
RE: Does eating meat preclude graduation to 4th D STO? - Shemaya - 03-10-2015
(03-10-2015, 10:19 AM)Jade Wrote:Quote:The orientation develops due to analysis of desire. These desires become more and more distorted towards conscious application of love/light as the entity furnishes itself with distilled experience.
The reason it is unwise to overcome is that overcoming is an unbalanced action creating difficulties in balancing in the time/space continuum.
It is, shall we say, a shortcut to simply ignore or overcome any desire. It must instead be understood and accepted. This takes patience and experience which can be analyzed with care, with compassion for self and for other-self.
(because participating in eating customs turns out to be a service to others...) I'm grateful to people who just reduce their meat consumption, or choose more ethical products to consume. People are slowly waking up to the horrors of our commercial farming system which is really the villain here, not the ignorant-by-choice-and-slightly-addicted consumer.
Thanks, Jade. Your post is very balanced and makes sense to me. I would agree that participating in social customs can be and very often is a service to others. So , for example, if it involves a family celebration where meat is being consumed, the service is most definitely balanced by the joy and community that brings people together.
I agree with you that eventually 4d will be a place where meat is no longer needed or consumed. I think at this point for some on earth, it is still needed, but eventually our entire planet will be able to live and thrive without it.
I eat very little meat, and that is because I am with my family most of the time, who are big meat eaters. I have definitely processed and worked on my feelings around the issue, and I am not afraid to tell others how I feel and what is horrible about the industry. I think that sometimes the information may be helpful coming from me because I am not a " purist" about my diet.
I completely agree with you about the commercial farming system being the villain! I think that it can be changed more easily than converting all people to vegetarianism because it has been a survival issue for humanity, and we are evolving.