If the spirit is a shuttle, how can it be complex?

[βαθμιαίος]

Ra says several times that the spirit is a shuttle, but they also say that the spirit is, post-veil, complex. What's complex about a shuttle? It sounds like "a simple and unified concept."

[Fastidious Emanations]

are you sure about that?
I thought that it is the mind that 'was' made complex. The body isn't, right?..
Because the veiling is between the conscious/unconscious mind right?
Maybe I am mistaken.
I think spirit is the accumulation of experience, it loses nothing when the mind/body fail, and then moves to where/when/why it is then suited.
Whereas when the spirit is consciously developed while incarnate, interesting experiences began more frequently as the spirit craves for more and more dense experience(s).

[βαθμιαίος]

Here's one quote I'm thinking of.

78.19 Questioner: So the original, the first evolution then was planned by the Logos but the first distortion was not extended to the product. At some point this first distortion was extended and the first service-to-self polarity emerged. Is this correct and if so, could you tell me the history of this process and emergence?

Ra: I am Ra. As proem let me state that the Logoi always conceived of themselves as offering free will to the sub-Logoi in their care. The sub-Logoi had freedom to experience and experiment with consciousness, the experiences of the body, and the illumination of the spirit. That having been said, we shall speak to the point of your query.

The first Logos to instill what you now see as free will, in the full sense, in its sub-Logoi came to this creation due to contemplation in depth of the concepts or possibilities of conceptualizations of what we have called the significators. The Logos posited the possibility of the mind, the body, and the spirit as being complex. In order for the significator to be what it is not, it then must be granted the free will of the Creator. This set in motion a quite lengthy, in your terms, series of Logoi improving or distilling this seed thought. The key was the significator becoming a complex.

[Fastidious Emanations]

oh I see, but the complexity falls away with the lifting of the veil in 4D?
So the Significator has the free will of the Creator now in informing the conscious experience, this is interesting to note, it's as if though there are 'two wills' that are actually one seperated by a construct of the Logoi which inform each-other as one in a sequence.

The veil reminds me of a resistor in a circuit.. but more complex hehe.

[Plenum]

Ra says several times that the spirit is a shuttle, but they also say that the spirit is, post-veil, complex. What's complex about a shuttle? It sounds like "a simple and unified concept."

Hi βαθμιαίος,

do you think there is a distinction when Ra refers to the spirit as a 'shuttle', and when Ra talks about the archetypes of the spirit (Star, Moon, Sun, etc)?

ie, the first would seem to be more a metaphor for the actual operation of the 'spirit complex', and the latter is pointing more to the mind's relationship to the spirit complex; ie the archetypes exist in the mind, and represent the mind's relationship to itself, to the body, and to the spirit; but are not actually equivalent to the mind, the body, or the spirit itself.

[βαθμιαίος]

That's an interesting idea. I thought that the blueprint resided in the mind but what it described was the mind, body, and spirit themselves, not the relationships between them and the mind.

Can anyone think of any quotes that would argue either way?

[spero]

this quote suggests the complexity stems from the initial complexation of the mind.

83.19 Questioner: What was the mechanism of the very first veiling process? I don’t know if you can answer that. Would you try to, though, answer that?

Ra: I am Ra. The mechanism of the veiling between the conscious and unconscious portions of the mind was a declaration that the mind was complex. This, in turn, caused the body and the spirit to become complex.

the below quote suggests the spirit complex is whole and perfect but can be realized and experienced in many ways by a complex mind/body. This accounts for the discrepancy between discussing a thing of itself i.e. the spirit complex, versus our understanding of the spirit complex as mind/body/spirit complexes, which is perhaps more what the archetypes are about.

The physical complex alone is created of many, many energy or electromagnetic fields interacting due to intelligent energy; the mental configurations or distortions of each complex further adding fields of electromagnetic energy and distorting the physical complex patterns of energy; the spiritual aspect serving as a further complexity of fields which is of itself perfect but which can be realized in many distorted and unintegrated ways by the mind and body complexes of energy fields.

[βαθμιαίος]

In what way(s) does declaring the mind to be complex cause the spirit to become complex? Does just the fact that the spirit can be realized in distorted ways cause it to be complex?

[Spaced]

In what way(s) does declaring the mind to be complex cause the spirit to become complex? Does just the fact that it can be realized in distorted ways cause the spirit itself to be complex?

I think it has to do with the introduction of the veil between the conscious and unconscious aspects of the mind. Prior the the veiling the function of the spirit was a simple movement of light into darkness, the veil allows for more distortion and work with shadow and various shades of grey. I think there's a Ra quote to that effect but I can't seem to find it.

[βαθμιαίος]

I guess it must also have to do with negative uses of the spirit. Pre-veil, only a positive shuttle seemed to be available. Now, the "power of which you speak is a spiritual power... To embrace falsity, to know it, to seek it, and to use it gives a power that is most great."

[Plenum]

In what way(s) does declaring the mind to be complex cause the spirit to become complex? Does just the fact that the spirit can be realized in distorted ways cause it to be complex?

Hi βαθμιαίος,

the following is just surmise on my part, but when Ra said that the mind became complex, the body was also made complex as a result, in that certain bodily functions were 'hidden' behind the Veil and assigned to the autonomous nervous system, and other functions of the body were left on 'this side' of the Veil, and were able to be consciously directed.

"83.20 Questioner: Would you give me an example of a complex activity of the body that we have now and how it was not complex prior to the veil?

Ra: I am Ra. Prior to the great experiment a mind/body/spirit was capable of controlling the pressure of blood in the vein, the beating of the organ you call the heart, the intensity of the sensation known to you as pain, and all the functions now understood to be involuntary or unconscious."

I can only surmise (and extrapolate) that a similiar 'veiling' was applied to the functions of the spirit, possibly leading to the situation that Spaced described up above.

as for specific examples (which you asked for), maybe 'inspiration' would be one? definitely the functions of the spirit are manifold and quite encompassing.

- -

4.18 The function of the spirit is to integrate the upreaching yearning of the mind/body energy with the downpouring and streaming of infinite intelligence.

[βαθμιαίος]

I can only surmise (and extrapolate) that a similiar 'veiling' was applied to the functions of the spirit, possibly leading to the situation that Spaced described up above.

as for specific examples (which you asked for), maybe 'inspiration' would be one? definitely the functions of the spirit are manifold and quite encompassing.

- -

4.18 The function of the spirit is to integrate the upreaching yearning of the mind/body energy with the downpouring and streaming of infinite intelligence.

That's brilliant. Thanks!

So how do the archetypes of the spirit relate to this (whether they have to do with the relationships of the mind to spirit or with the spirit alone)?

Here's Ra's description of the mind:

The mind is a complex which reflects the inpourings of the spirit and the up-pourings of the body complex. It contains what you know as feelings, emotions, and intellectual thoughts in its more conscious complexities. Moving further down the tree of mind we see the intuition which is of the nature of the mind more in contact or in tune with the total beingness complex. Moving down to the roots of mind we find the progression of consciousness which gradually turns from the personal to the racial memory, to the cosmic influxes, and thus becomes a direct contactor of that shuttle which we call the spirit complex.

That's complex enough that there seems to be room for seven archetypes, if you know what I mean. But why does the spirit need seven archetypes?

This spirit complex is the channel whereby the inpourings from all of the various universal, planetary, and personal inpourings may be funneled into the roots of consciousness and whereby consciousness may be funneled to the gateway of intelligent infinity through the balanced intelligent energy of body and mind.

I guess what I'm trying to understand is what role the archetypes of the spirit play in the integration of the upreaching mind/body energy with the downpouring infinite intelligence.

[Sagittarius]

Only one way to find out, asking questions is all well and good but I think you know the best way to explore theories. The spirit doesn't "need" 7 archetypes it's simply an interpretation of experience put into language. An understanding of the underlying essence of the archetypes is the factor that initiates change within experience not the many interpretation-al forms of display the undertow takes.

[βαθμιαίος]

What is simply an interpretation of experience put into language? The archetypical mind?

An understanding of the underlying essence of the archetypes is the factor that initiates change within experience not the many interpretation-al forms of display the undertow takes.

Do you think the understanding of the underlying essence can't be put into words?

[Sagittarius]

What is simply an interpretation of experience put into language? The archetypical mind?

An understanding of the underlying essence of the archetypes is the factor that initiates change within experience not the many interpretation-al forms of display the undertow takes.

Do you think the understanding of the underlying essence can't be put into words?

Well the tarot would be one example, chakras another. Everything is apart of the archetypal mind the form in which it is perceived and mapped is language/communication.

No it can't be put into words, words can be associated with experience that ignite the underlying essence which causes notable change in sensation and cognition which in turn change your experience in the now.

[Plenum]

I guess what I'm trying to understand is what role the archetypes of the spirit play in the integration of the upreaching mind/body energy with the downpouring infinite intelligence.

well, I guess I have to bring together a few threads to fully answer this question (as I perceive it).

first of all, Ra recommended that the Archetypes were a tool that was very useful for the adept. That is not to make it sound elitist, or to say that the archetypes have no value to someone who isn't an adept, but that the Archetypes offer the most fruit to someone who is seeking at the 'adept' level.

and as you know, an 'adept' is used here in a very descriptive sense; ie an adept is just someone who has cleared their first five energy centres sufficiently (a positive adept), and has begun to work with their indigo ray in a consistent and reliable fashion.

and let's recall that the indigo centre is also the 'gateway to intelligent infinity' when it has been sufficiently cleared.

so its my personal belief, that when someone has reached 'adept level', the Archetypes are a system or methodology of training that works specifically on the indigo centre, as well as having the side benefit of clearing any remaining lower level blockages, so that when fully implemented, the energy system is fully clear from chakras 1-6, and that intelligent infinity can be directly contacted.

of course, the indigo centre is subject to varying levels of crystallisation, so its not a once-off deal that intelligent infinity is reached, and then nothing more needs to be done.

"74.11 There is then no personality in the sense with which the adept begins its learn/teaching. As the consciousness of the indigo ray becomes more crystalline, more work may be done; more may be expressed from intelligent infinity."

and it is by no means that one needs to be an 'adept' to benefit or experience the 'spirit complex'. Just like the indigo centre is always active, and that the body is always present, the 'downstreamings' of the spirit/intelligent infinity are being expressed or offered in the manner in which the self (any self) is receptive to them.

it's just that when the kundlini point has reached the indigo level, this resource of the spirit is able to be tapped more consistently, regularly, and reliably; the 'seeking power in order to serve'. In the case of a positive adept:

"73.4 Those who are upon the service-to-others path may call upon the light strength in direct proportion to the strength and purity of their will to serve."

- -

in short, I perceive a direct overlap between what Ra calls the 'adept', indigo level work, the Archetypes, the spirit complex, and the downstreamings of infinite intelligence.

90.29 The adept has already worked much, not only within the red, orange, yellow, and green energy centers, but already in the opening of blue and indigo. Up through this point the archetypes function as the great base or plinth of a builded structure or statue keeping the mind complex viable, level, and available as a resource whenever it may be evoked. There is a point at which the adept takes up its work. This is the point at which a clear and conscious consideration of the archetypical mind is useful.

74.6 The indigo center is indeed most important for the work of the adept.

74.8 The indigo ray is the ray of the adept. A great deal of the answer you seek is in this sentence. There is an identification between the crystallization of that energy center and the improvement of the working of the mind/body/spirit as it begins to transcend space/time balancing and to enter the combined realms of space/time and time/space.

the Archetypes were also used on Venus to train the 'magical personality'.

88.14 The product of many, many generations of work upon what we conceived to be the archetypical mind produced the tarot which was used by our peoples as a training aid in developing the magical personality.

[Adonai One]

The "soul" complex is not a simple construction and has evolved similarly to the biology of this planet. There is much, much, much complexity to the soul. It is not a divine, streamlined gift from the Sun but a construction that was allowed to evolve. All in my perspective of course.

[Namaste]

Ra says several times that the spirit is a shuttle, but they also say that the spirit is, post-veil, complex. What's complex about a shuttle? It sounds like "a simple and unified concept."

Could the intended usage/meaning of the word complex be different as to what you assume?

Ra doesn't use the term as a synonym for complicated, but more so for 'structured', 'layered' or 'relationship'.

Hence mind/body/spirit complex.

79.19 Questioner: Could you tell me what you mean by “the significator must become a complex?”

Ra: I am Ra. To be complex is to consist of more than one characteristic element or concept.

More examples...

8.18 Questioner: Was Charlie Hickson originally of the same social memory complex as the ones who picked him up?

Ra: I am Ra. This entity of vibratory sound complex did not have a connection with those who used him.

78.4 Questioner: Could you tell me the condition of the instrument?

Ra: I am Ra. The physical complex is as previously stated. There is some slight loss of vital energy. The basic complex distortions are similar to your previous asking.

[βαθμιαίος]

Ra doesn't use the term as a synonym for complicated, but more so for 'structured', 'layered' or 'relationship'.

Thank you -- yes, I think that's what I'm trying to get at. What is the structure of the shuttle that is the spirit? Or, put another way, how do the matrix, potentiator, etc., of the spirit relate to the fact that it is a shuttle?

Or is it specifically the significator that's relevant? It's what Ra said became complex, after all.

[Namaste]

My apologies, it would have helped if I read the entire thread before replying :¬)

Without the "a", I misinterpreted "complex" as "complicated".

Ra says several times that the spirit is a shuttle, but they also say that the spirit is, post-veil, a complex

To answer your question - I'm not sure of the mechanics. Most certainly one to contemplate/research further, I've not spent much time on this topic for a while now.

[Unbound]

For the spirit to act as a shuttle and therefore analog for the mind/body it must have equivalent parts. The archetypes of the spirit pertain to the necessary processes needed to integrate the mind and body archetypes with intelligent infinity. Quite literally because it is a mind/body/spirit complex as opposed to a mind, a body and a spirit as separate things, when the mind became complex the body and spirit must also become complex for they are united with the mind, so a distinction made in any one is apparent in all of them. Another way to think of it is holographic in that when you update or make complex the source, all of the other levels of which the source is the root must also by necessity accomodate the same complexity.

Why are there seven archetypes for the spirit? Because there are seven archetypes of mind/body that may be integrated. Imo.

[Guardian]

I believe the spirit is the only consistent thing throughout our existence. The mind/body/spirit complex only applies to individual incarnations.

[jivatman]

The trinity of Mind, Body, and Spirit shares the same pattern of any other pattern of three objects. The dialectic resolution of opposites: Thesis, Antithesis, and Synthesis. Yin, Yang, Tao.

RA describes Mind and Body as reflecting themselves as mirror images of eachother as Yang and Yin. RA also says that the Mind and Body archetypes are both active in most individuals.

Spirit is potentiated when one says of the self "I am neither mind, nor body" or "I am the Synthesis of mind and body". Spirit is close to pure unity. It is a simple and unified concept.

[JustLikeYou]

I guess what I'm trying to understand is what role the archetypes of the spirit play in the integration of the upreaching mind/body energy with the downpouring infinite intelligence.

...

What is the structure of the shuttle that is the spirit? Or, put another way, how do the matrix, potentiator, etc., of the spirit relate to the fact that it is a shuttle?

Setting aside the numerous other comments and uncertainties to which I could add my own perceptions and intuitions, to your questions at least I will formulate an answer.

Are you at every moment your most authentic self? To what degree do you interrupt the free flow of your infinite existence through mental machinations or bodily urges?

While contact with Intelligent Infinity is a passport to the infinite dimensions and universes, which of us has earned that passport?

If the spirit were not complex, there would be no need to seek that passport. It would already be in your pocket and you could simply will yourself to commune with Intelligent Infinity in whatever way you choose. The complexity of the spirit lies in the great difficulty we all have in (a) locating the "true self" (or whatever you want to call it) out of the array of dimly perceived attitudes about the self including most notably fears and dreams, (b) distinguishing it from the "ego" (or whatever you want to call it) through walking in faith while attempting to discriminate between the faith of the true self and the habits of the ego, © existing in the consciousness of that true self at all times, and (d) magnifying this existence until it equals the light of noon. In short, the complexity of the spirit can be seen readily in the slow process of enlightenment.

The connection between this process and the spirit's function as a channel is fairly easy to grasp: when the mind is complex, it invents mazes and illusions for itself. It doesn't trust its gut or its intuition. These mental attitudes can be thought of as debris that gets sent upward into the spirit complex, clogging the channel. It is not a distortion within in the spirit itself, but a distortion in the contact between mind and spirit, revealing some of the spirit, but hiding much of it. What little still gets through the channel between mind and spirit on the shuttle of spirit is what you may identify as your true self. When the mind holds on to this state of consciousness, it can widen the channel and fuel the shuttle. Eventually, the shuttle can make it all the way to Intelligent Infinity and back with your consciousness intact.

When you are in perfect synchronization with the true self (i.e. when you have reached enlightenment), there is nothing hidden from view, no greater purpose in your life which shields itself from your perception, no hidden inner agendas. Your presence is powerful and commands respect, but it is gentle and earns love.

[Confused]

Ra says several times that the spirit is a shuttle, but they also say that the spirit is, post-veil, complex. What's complex about a shuttle? It sounds like "a simple and unified concept."

Probably, the definition of what a 'complex' is should be considered in its deeper nuance.

According to Merriam-Webster, one of the definitions of 'complex' is as follows - "a whole made up of complicated or interrelated parts; e.g., the military-industrial complex".

With the above definition in place, I think the following quotes now make potentially more refined sense, in terms of adumbrating the probable meaning of 'complex'.

30.2 Questioner: Thank you. Would you define mind, body, and spirit separately?

Ra: I am Ra. These terms are all simplistic descriptive terms which equal a complex of energy focuses; the body, as you call it, being the material of the density which you experience at a given space/time or time/space; this complex of materials being available for distortions of what you would call physical manifestation.

The mind is a complex which reflects the inpourings of the spirit and the up-pourings of the body complex. It contains what you know as feelings, emotions, and intellectual thoughts in its more conscious complexities. Moving further down the tree of mind we see the intuition which is of the nature of the mind more in contact or in tune with the total beingness complex. Moving down to the roots of mind we find the progression of consciousness which gradually turns from the personal to the racial memory, to the cosmic influxes, and thus becomes a direct contactor of that shuttle which we call the spirit complex.

This spirit complex is the channel whereby the inpourings from all of the various universal, planetary, and personal inpourings may be funneled into the roots of consciousness and whereby consciousness may be funneled to the gateway of intelligent infinity through the balanced intelligent energy of body and mind.

You will see by this series of definitive statements that mind, body, and spirit are inextricably intertwined and cannot continue, one without the other. Thus we refer to the mind/body/spirit complex rather than attempting to deal with them separately, for the work, shall we say, that you do during your experiences is done through the interaction of these three components, not through any one.

89.20 Questioner: You stated that each archetype is a concept complex. Would you please define what you mean by that statement?

Ra: I am Ra. Upon the face of it such a definition is without merit, being circular. A concept complex is a complex of concepts just as a molecule is a complex structure made up of more than one type of energy nexus or atom. Each atom within a molecule is its unique identity and, by some means, can be removed from the molecule. The molecule of water can, by chemical means, be caused to separate into hydrogen and oxygen. Separately they cannot be construed to equal water. When formed in the molecular structure which exemplifies water the two are irrefragably water.

Just in this way each archetype has within it several root atoms of organizational being. Separately the overall structure of the complex cannot be seen. Together the concept complex is irrefragably one thing. However, just as it is most useful in grasping the potentials in your physical systems of the constituting nature of water, so in grasping the nature of an archetype it is useful to have a sense of its component concepts.

---

Ra says several times that the spirit is a shuttle, but they also say that the spirit is, post-veil, complex. What's complex about a shuttle? It sounds like "a simple and unified concept."

Could the intended usage/meaning of the word complex be different as to what you assume?

Ra doesn't use the term as a synonym for complicated, but more so for 'structured', 'layered' or 'relationship'.

Oooppss.....just saw this post after posting mine

[Parsons]

I see this concept visually. I could literally make a (terrible) visual representation of what I see in Paint if I wanted. I will try to describe it with an analogy.

At either end of the entire circuit is the Intelligent Energy and Intelligent Infinity. In the middle, the white colored Intelligent Energy/Infinity splits into 7 colored wires representing each ray. The 7 wires are separated into 3 sections (Body, Mind, Spirit). At each junction between body/mind/spirit would be the "matrix, potentiator, etc" of each appropriate ray. Preveil, I would presume the 7 rays wouldn't exist and there would just be the sections of the body/mind/spirit. Postveil, they are split into the 7 distinctive rays and thus is a "complex".

Without the spirit portion of the circuit, the mind/body would not connect to intelligent infinity. This, of course, is the "shuttle" analogy Ra uses.

I hope this expands upon your question and I am not misunderstanding it.

---

You can apply what Tanner said earlier in the thread to my circuit analogy. That is what I was trying to get at.

[Infinite Unity]

Ra says several times that the spirit is a shuttle, but they also say that the spirit is, post-veil, complex.  What's complex about a shuttle?  It sounds like "a simple and unified concept."

I think of the shuttle as the communicator of Information/data/love. This made complex through the different apparent densities, and there relative point-of-view/mindset.

Quite like the cardiovascular system. It delivers all aspects/components/nutrients to every part of the body. Informing and nurturing it, through an indirect relationship/communication of information/nutrients.

[loostudent]

It's forming a complex together with mind and body.

[third-density-being]

First of all I really appreciate thoughts of All. Each One of You gave me something to think about or disagree with – both equally precious I belive.

I encourage Self and All to read utmost carefully.

4.18 The function of the spirit is to integrate the upreaching yearning of the mind/body energy with the downpouring and streaming of infinite intelligence.

Both yearnings of the mind/body – upreaching and downpouring – are integrated by Spirit. As well as streamings of infinite intelligence.

Let’s take it all from another side. We are Creators. Infinite Being manifesting Self in Creation of Manynesses. How such Being may be expressed as We? By superficial separation closed in duality – mind/body. Spirit is a bridge/shuttle to the Being with full access to Self. I think there were series (infinite I presume) of unimaginable “Focuses of Creator” to reach such sophistication as “We/I” with our “free will” and our experience of “reaching upward”, Seeking, becoming Adept and many, many other thoughts symbolizing becoming closer to becoming Creator.
To give oversimplified example would be creating situation / state of Self, when You would have to learn how to write and read all over again while all that would be totally new/alien to You.
I think Creator created state of Self(s) who/whom longing to become what They already are – Infinite Creator.

[third-density-being]

It also may be that “with the” suggesting both downpouring and streamings referring to infinite intelligence. I’m confused to be honest. Both are sensible to me.