Satanists holding an open dark mass on 08.12.12 relatively near.

[Cyan]

Just out of curiosity.

Satanists, luciferiansitas and other occultists of various seriousness are holding a openly Satanist (in the actual worshipping satan sense) worship ritual in my country. Their idea is to do a reverse dedication to satan/lucifer as opposed to the usual christmas dedication rituals.

I am, on a level, interested in joining due to the various... mythological... disagreements i have with christianity and especially its nice habbit of burning everything it comes in contact with, especially other religions.

But on a another hand, it is a dark mass...

IF i were to participate in person i would wear all black and have a black mask similar to eyes wide shut with all related and accepted magical apparel of the "eyes wide shut" style.

I dont know, on some level i find it hilarious that i'm invited to a openly black mass being something of a politican with "illuminati" connections in a forum where people discuss channelings from beyond the grave and some of the posters refer to worshipping lord lucifer.

Would this be the point of "My fall" or the point of "My ascension"

Hard to say.

But thoughts. Should i participate, refuse to participate, participate and do a counter counter mass (Dedicate to Ra anyone?)

Opinions, how would i best go about making this a ridiclously positive event for all involved?

edit: in chat for the time being if more in person talk is preferable, will also accept opinions via PM. Is this quite possibly the dumbest idea i've had thus far.

The idea is to get a right for protest from the gov into the central plaza in town.

Then to buy maybe 3-5 liters of pig blood, put it in bottles with these screw on caps that allow a small stream at a time, use that to draw a pentagram on the snow according to the proper instructions.

Wearing all black thick ritual style clothing along with the staff i carved from my previous years christmas tree. Essentially repeat the eyes wide shut scene. Go insanely all out on the ritual garb and details and make it as authentic looking and feeling as possible, up to and including writing and drawing secondary symbols known to work (metatron etc).

Then once its all put down play the proper ritual music and step into the circle and light candles at appropriate placements around the circle and in a loud and steady voice start reading the proclamation and sing a few hymns or something and then "bless" anyone who wants a blessing. Then step out of the circle and break it and then shovel all the snow into bags and dispose of it in the trash appropriately and take of the garb in public and then answer any questions that anyone may have.

Idea being to introduce people to the idea that yes, there are actually other religions besides monotheistic abrahimic religions. That and, for me personally, to bring some of this stuff to light. Since I am a "politican" with "illuminati" (thats how most people would understand this forum) connections that dabbles in magic and spirits it would be both authentic and real. With the added benefit that it would allow me, as a STO oriented entity (in a way) to actually shine the light on these matters and describe how they are done and how people do this stuff... Dunno.

Heavy topic.

[Monica]

Is this quite possibly the dumbest idea i've had thus far.

Yes

[Cyan]

I dont know, going without food for a month to prove a point was quite possibly an incy bit dumber than this.

Still. MOOOOoooooooooooooooooooonica.... Its a dark mass and i've been invited.

Why dont you guys ever let me do no fun!

<3

---

They even have a facebook group and everything. I even marked myself down as a "maybe"...

[Monica]

I dont know, going without food for a month to prove a point was quite possibly an incy bit dumber than this.

Nope

Still. MOOOOoooooooooooooooooooonica.... Its a dark mass and i've been invited.

Why dont you guys ever let me do no fun!

Um...because we're STO?

Because we love you and don't want to see you do something stupid?

Because...you asked us our opinion?

Seriously, if you want to make a point about there being other religions besides the Abrahamic ones, then why not find yourself a nice, peace-loving, nonviolent, noncreepy Pagan coven and do a WHITE ritual instead?

That would get the point across too, but it would generate some positive vibes, instead of negative ones.

Not to mention, that participating in a black mass ritual would only reinforce the Christian stereotype of anything non-Christian as being 'demonic.'

[Unbound]

This isn't a good idea in any regard. Far more confusion, chaos and distortion will come than any understanding or openness to other religions, because as a mockery-ritual, only mockery will be manifested.

[Cyan]

...

Ahh darnit...

I suppose you're right...

I suppose, when i'm in healing for having just spent the hardest year of my life and looking forward to the time when i finally actually get to spend time in quiet (the past few months... relatively speaking and the next 1½ months..) i should not attract more attention by leading/participating in a black mass ritual in the city center in full ritual garb...

I mean. I do bump into arch angels, gods, and goddesses on a regular basis, heck, i was actually invited to a God/Goddess themed party a few months back where everyone or almost everyone was, far as i could tell 4+D positive. So i may not want to risk it. Especially since in the situation implied, i would be 3D and not my usual "form maker" self as i would channel someone elses ritual...

But still. How often do you get invited to a eyes wide shut style ritual party where you could stand in the middle of that circle...

Actually. I have someone who is so close to the Lucifer idea (lightbringer) that for all intents and purposes, i have Lucifer on speed-dial. So to me, this would be just a massive case of gathering attention...

Starting see your point here Monica probably a very very very bad idea. Who knows what someone with "My level" (i'm unsure as to what that actually is, but i expect it to be moderately to very high in reality (i'm still so veiled that while i do know i can get to my form maker, beyond that i have no idea)) doing a summoning ritual like that in the middle of town, pigsblood and athames and serious commitment and maybe 20 hard core satanist could actually summon up....

Maybe i should back down from this one...

[Monica]

I suppose you're right...

We're right, Cyan. We're right.

I suppose, when i'm in healing for having just spent the hardest year of my life and looking forward to the time when i finally actually get to spend time in quiet (the past few months... relatively speaking and the next 1½ months..) i should not attract more attention by leading/participating in a black mass ritual in the city center in full ritual garb...

Well aside from that, why would you want to contribute to more darkness and chaos, at a time when we're all trying to raise the vibration?

But still. How often do you get invited to a eyes wide shut style ritual party where you could stand in the middle of that circle...

The real question is: Why do you feel attracted to this?

Starting see your point here Monica probably a very very very bad idea...
Maybe i should back down from this one...

Yup

(You did ask for our opinion!)

[Cyan]

I appreciate the opinion I ask for.

I feel attracted to this for the same reason that in Constantine (movie) Gabriel felt to releasing Lucifers Son into the world.

And it would probably end quite as spectacularly badly for me.

[Monica]

I feel attracted to this for the same reason that in Constantine (movie) Gabriel felt to releasing Lucifers Son into the world.

I didn't see that movie. Why would anyone (an STO person) want to release Luciferian forces into the world?

And it would probably end quite as spectacularly badly for me.

Are you concerned about anyone else whom your black mass might affect? Do you have any concern about any negative energies that might be generated?

[Cyan]

This isn't a good idea in any regard. Far more confusion, chaos and distortion will come than any understanding or openness to other religions, because as a mockery-ritual, only mockery will be manifested.

I think, that as a mockery ritual, it might actually work "worser..?" that is to say, have a much much more efficient outcome.

Not to mention, that many a STS entity would cream their pants for the possibility of corrupting someone who has, at least tried and attempted to maintain the STO mindset at all times.

Mockery of a ritual that is originially a mockery of christianity performed by a lightworker trying to raise awareness of the darkness by performing a public fall and summoning of a dark physical manifestation in public and in front of cameras...

Yeah I'm thinking its a bad idea and i'll stay quite a distance away from it...

---

I feel attracted to this for the same reason that in Constantine (movie) Gabriel felt to releasing Lucifers Son into the world.

And it would probably end quite as spectacularly badly for me.

I didn't see that movie. Why would anyone (an STO person) want to release Luciferian forces into the world?

I highly recommend the movie, it is an exquisitely good study on the Fall.

Best one of its kind that i've ever seen.

The idea that Gabriel has is the basic "humanity has grown scornful of gods gift and needs to be awakened in a sea of blood" The ending cracks me up sooooo bad. I recommend the movie.

[BrownEye]

I was joking around on a halloween night rattling off names from a book of necromancy. I had no belief in it, or really of anything. I found out shortly after that just like saying someones name you haven't seen forever, and they suddenly think of you, works the same for demonic entities. Thinking back to what happened I had a hard time believing any of it, except there were witnesses. The obvious worst I went through was like being held in a big hand. I was hitting the sides and ceiling of a trailer and screaming. I woke up in a corner hearing this scream that lasted a long time, then after a bit realizing it was coming from me. I had a hole in my heel that was dead white skin and no blood, just like the look of taking an old wet bandaid off. We looked all over the room for the missing part of my heel and never found it. All instances had witnesses, as I pretty much ignored anything out of the ordinary that involved me alone.

From that point I dealt with spirit stuff for a few years before it started to fade away. Coincidentally that group I was with is all gone. Pretty sure I mentioned this in the past, but when the last guy died I thought maybe I was next in line.

They were all experiences when I did not believe in the stuff, and was considerably "fearless" to the point of being called a psychopath. Nowadays it would just qualify me for the Jackass show.

It would seem that even mock rituals have power.

[Monica]

The idea that Gabriel has is the basic "humanity has grown scornful of gods gift and needs to be awakened in a sea of blood"

Isn't this planet already swimming in a sea of blood?

[Cyan]

See thats the funny part, to me, in the movie, it seemed like gabriel had a BAD case of PTSD and just went nuts and needed a vacation "on earth"... I recommend the movie. Even though it has supremely dark scenes ( visits to hell a few times, one of the best performances playing Satan by any actor to date. Gabriel was dead on in performance. Keanu was above and beyond exceptional. Whole package was just beyond excellent. That being said. The movie is a masterpiece, in my opinion, up there with what dreams may come and a few others of similar style.

In essence, yeah, it is, and thats kind of what makes gabriels point so odd, and why the movie works so wonderfully. The celestials rarely if ever make any sense to a conventional world view. Still. Good discussion thus far, thank you all

---

It would seem that even mock rituals have power.

Mock dark rituals usually has as much or more power than "serious" dark rituals... So far as I can tell. Except for the really serious dark rituals.

Mockery of what is a mockery adds to mockery. AS opposed to a serious approach to what is a mockery

[Monica]

From that point I dealt with spirit stuff for a few years before it started to fade away. Coincidentally that group I was with is all gone. Pretty sure I mentioned this in the past, but when the last guy died I thought maybe I was next in line.

Wow, that's an incredible story! The others all died! Holy crap!

[Cyan]

I've had similar experiences but when i notice the energy shifting into a .... possibly... lethal direction i always go for immediate seclusion and allow myself to, in a way, die. Since there is no "real" death, i usually dont perceive the moment when "they" die and "they" are "reincarnated"

But i could share some horror stories. Prefer not to. I got out lucky since of my 3 man group, the worst that ever happened was one guy spending 10 years doing the exact same thing over and over and over again (conspiracies and perpetual energy) and the other had the skin peel of from both his hands (palms) so that there was blood dripping down. But, then again, the guy with bloody hands did rip leaves from trees and suck the energy from those intentionally and dabble in light (as in light, medium, heavy, not light and darkness) black magic. So you get what you pay for.

Worst i ever got into black magic was some ouja boards and a few other things i'd rather never do again. But nothing major and i never found it the most efficient way to do anything.

I've always been more attracted to the principle of "why" demons do something and not so much "how". Edit: If i were to come face to face with a demonic scholar imp, i'd probably just ask about how they mix their ink and what they consider to be the proper book binding technique.

That is to say. IF i want to communicate with say, the demon prince of lies, i'd need to understand why someone needs to lie and then go into taht understanding deeper and deeper and eventually i'd run into that demon prince, and it would be an entirely internal process with the demon prince only appearing very late as a physical entity and it being entirely non threatning (i didnt summon him, nor he me, we just run into each other on a mutual path).

Then we chat and we both go our own ways.

Since the initial energy difference due to me working on my own is so small, neither side benefits much in trying to manipulate the other, other than from the practice of manipulating the other. But as the contact isnt done in a "channeling" "ritualistic" way. there is no ... binding... So anyway...

This would be the exact opposite of my usual style (low key, low publicity, acting mostly of curiosity and seeing all as one entity acting equally with otehr entities) (even demons are nice if you are beyond 6.5 from their perspective when contacting since their power stops at their higher self, which they refuse to merge with, if you have an idea of what i mean, kind of)

Hidden hand might be a good way to describe what i mean by demon contact thats "safe".

This would be patently the opposite, in a ballsy and ... possibly... stupid to the point of lethality way.

From constantine, Gabriel introducing herself.





Edit: So, I have to ask, what do you think would happen if i did this, in the worst realistic (might happen) case scenario?

Demonic possession?
Mass demonic possession?

A full blown manifestation tearing through town?

Since I have trouble knowing my own power (needless to say why, veil and all). I have trouble really grasping what level of activity people would think would happen since i'm still seriously unsure what my abilities are. I suspect it might not be pleasant for most people but just how unpleasant would it be? When I think about it i am hesitant to engage in the thoughts deeper than "IT would be bad" but my intuition is that i should not be surprised if I actually managed to manifest something thats 9 feet tall and has a hunkering for human meat. Which would be a decidedly bad thing for me and my learn/teaching in this planetary sphere as it would probably necceitate a big "dounce" hat on and being sent to the corner.

[Monica]

Pickle already answered your question about the 'worst' that could happen to the person engaging in black magick rituals for kicks.

I will answer your question with a question: If you are even entertaining the idea of some "manifestation tearing through town," or a "9-foot-tall demon with a hunkering for human meat," do you have any concerns at all for others?

[Cyan]

In general, yes. In this particular case, not necceserily if i concluded it would be the best thing to do. Its not.

Same as if i concluded the best thing to do is to eat stake or to not give the starving my food.

You see, dear Monica. I consider passive killing as bad as active killing.

That means that failure to save a life is the same, in my eyes, as actively taking a life.

[Monica]

You see, dear Monica. I consider passive killing as bad as active killing.

That means that failure to save a life is the same, in my eyes, as actively taking a life.

Can you explain the relevance of that to this situation?

[Cyan]

My concern in this situation is that if such a display would, on averaging out both the potentially worst and the potentialy best, still produce a better outcome than not.

That is to say. Best outcome would be univesal peace for all or some such, worst outcome would be universal war for all, or some such.

The probable actual outcome of this enedvour would be personal difficulty and pain with little to show for it, and beyond that, it gets progressively worse.

IF summoning a hulking dude into teh middle of the town were a good plan all around, i would not hesitate to do it, right now, its not a good plan for anyone involved. So i consider a bad outcome.

That people may or may not die is a sidenote because what happens in actuality in such cases i do not attempt to control, only that the actions i take are in the best interest of all involved, and participating in this would not be for the best interest of all invovled. Even if i were to corrupt the ritual and turn it into a light equivelant, mostly due to corrupting corrupted rituals.

That is to say, if i did it, i would do it to raise awareness about the fact taht people do stuff like this for real, answer questions about my belief, about the new age, about why i did it despite it not being my belief (not a satanist myself) (asked to and i dont turn down religious sermons i'm invited to) and so on.

Same as if i go into church, i dont take responsibility if God decides to be a douch because i pray to him and kill billions by flooding the planet.

---

LEts keep in perspective that the "god" of the bible kills a lot more people than any opposite force ever does. And anyone who goes to the church are just as responsible for that as anyone who goes to a black mass would be responsibile for a summoned bad guy.

Most people who go to church dont think of personal responsibility, thats why they go to church.

Edit: can you imagine what kind of ... horrors... would go down if those ... people... actually managed to summon Yahwe back to earth?

[Brittany]

[Monica]

That is to say, if i did it, i would do it to raise awareness about the fact taht people do stuff like this for real, answer questions about my belief, about the new age, about why i did it despite it not being my belief (not a satanist myself) (asked to and i dont turn down religious sermons i'm invited to) and so on.

Are you saying that if you did it, you would be trying to reverse the negative energy and actually corrupting the corruption, thus resulting in positive?

Are you sure you could pull that off? Sounds like you're not sure, and are concerned that you would be contributing to the negative intent of the ritual.

Same as if i go into church, i dont take responsibility if God decides to be a douch because i pray to him and kill billions by flooding the planet.

LEts keep in perspective that the "god" of the bible kills a lot more people than any opposite force ever does.

If you're referring to the old testament 'god' then I wouldn't call that an 'opposite force' - it is negative and part of the same negative force.

And anyone who goes to the church are just as responsible for that as anyone who goes to a black mass would be responsibile for a summoned bad guy.

Most people who go to church dont think of personal responsibility, thats why they go to church.

I think we are partially responsible for whatever we choose to participate in.

We can, however, choose what we wish to direct our energy towards. I can attend a Christian church service, no problem. I just focus on the love part and the singing, the uplifting, the genuine spiritual seeking that is surely to be found in a church. I just focus on all that and tune out the preaching, which often is full of elitism and bigotry.

In a Christian church, both positive and negative are to be found, to be sure.

Can you say the same about this black magick ritual?

Edit: can you imagine what kind of ... horrors... would go down if those ... people... actually managed to summon Yahwe back to earth?

But they've already done that...they do it every day. Yahweh is alive and well on Planet Earth.

[Cyan]

That is to say, if i did it, i would do it to raise awareness about the fact taht people do stuff like this for real, answer questions about my belief, about the new age, about why i did it despite it not being my belief (not a satanist myself) (asked to and i dont turn down religious sermons i'm invited to) and so on.

Are you saying that if you did it, you would be trying to reverse the negative energy and actually corrupting the corruption, thus resulting in positive?

Are you sure you could pull that off? Sounds like you're not sure, and are concerned that you would be contributing to the negative intent of the ritual.

If i were at my peak ability, fully recharged and itching for a challenge. Maybe. In this condition. Unlikely to succeed so wont take the risk.

Same as if i go into church, i dont take responsibility if God decides to be a douch because i pray to him and kill billions by flooding the planet.

LEts keep in perspective that the "god" of the bible kills a lot more people than any opposite force ever does.

If you're referring to the old testament 'god' then I wouldn't call that an 'opposite force' - it is negative and part of the same negative force.

I consider the bible for the most part one big negative force.

And anyone who goes to the church are just as responsible for that as anyone who goes to a black mass would be responsibile for a summoned bad guy.

Most people who go to church dont think of personal responsibility, thats why they go to church.

I think we are partially responsible for whatever we choose to participate in.

We can, however, choose what we wish to direct our energy towards. I can attend a Christian church service, no problem. I just focus on the love part and the singing, the uplifting, the genuine spiritual seeking that is surely to be found in a church. I just focus on all that and tune out the preaching, which often is full of elitism and bigotry.

In a Christian church, both positive and negative are to be found, to be sure.

Can you say the same about this black magick ritual?

Most certainly, existence is possible without both aspects to some degree, surely you know this? The fact that you have no trouble going to church does not indicate that the church you go it is not inherantly as negative or more so than any random black magic ritual would be.

Most often people believe they can tune the negative out, when in fact they cant. They can tune their awareness of the negative seeping into their mind out of their awareness but not the process itself.

That is to say, you can go to church and pretend that the time you spend there isnt time away from feeding, clothing and helping people, but it is still quite away from feeding, clothing, and helping people. The time you choose to spend tuning out is time others choose to spend dying due to people in a position of power to help them spending the same time tuning out.

Edit: can you imagine what kind of ... horrors... would go down if those ... people... actually managed to summon Yahwe back to earth?

But they've already done that...they do it every day. Yahweh is alive and well on Planet Earth.

[/quote]

Really. I sure would hope not, i prefer not to have mass murdering planet killer spirits roaming around on earth.

Then again, we have other similar spirits of equally nasty intent running around so wouldnt be surprising.

But judging by the fact of how unflooded and unburied in blood we are, i'd say the old guy is probably off somewhere in a cosmic mental institute babbling to itself about how its all humanitys fault they wont worship him for ever and ever and ever and ever and ever ad infinitum.

If you ask me, i'd rather take a life of liberty followed by nothing than a life of slavery followed by more slavery.

In my eyes, one of the worst spirits in the cosmos are spirits like Yahweh, and i would have much much more trouble even wanting to summon him than i would, say, wanting to summon Ra or Seth. Both being viewed by Yahweh as cause for eternal damnation and immediate death (not allowing witches to live, and what not). I swear, that guy is such a hoot. Lets not forget that if anyone here followed the old testament accurately, we'd all have someone trying to kill us.

---

Let me put it this way.

What if you were invited by your local church to give out a sermon praising the mid-eastern blood/human sacrifice god Yahweh and you had moral qualms about it but could use it to speak to a large crowd?

I'm opting not to do it at all. But that would be the appropriate analogue, i think.

[Monica]

I consider the bible for the most part one big negative force.

Jesus was cool. All that love, peace and forgiveness stuff.

Most certainly, existence is possible without both aspects to some degree, surely you know this?

Well I've never been to a black magick ritual and don't care to, but last I heard, there wasn't any love/peace/forgiveness stuff in them.

Whereas, in a church, you'll find both.

The fact that you have no trouble going to church does not indicate that the church you go it is not inherantly as negative or more so than any random black magic ritual would be.

I haven't been to a church in at least 10 years. And even then, I went only for the singing, which was uplifting. And the people there genuinely cared about me and prayed for me, and even though their beliefs were quaint and misplaced, I appreciated their willingness to help me. What is uplifting about a black magick ritual? Can you name 1 thing about it that is positive?

Most often people believe they can tune the negative out, when in fact they cant. They can tune their awareness of the negative seeping into their mind out of their awareness but not the process itself.

I was fully aware of the negative aspects of religion when I chose to go to that church. It's a matter of what we choose to focus on.

That is to say, you can go to church and pretend that the time you spend there isnt time away from feeding, clothing and helping people, but it is still quite away from feeding, clothing, and helping people. The time you choose to spend tuning out is time others choose to spend dying due to people in a position of power to help them spending the same time tuning out.

This is rather amusing, in light of the fact that, right now, we are both choosing to engage in conversation on the internet, rather than being out there feeding and clothing the needy.

Really. I sure would hope not, i prefer not to have mass murdering planet killer spirits roaming around on earth.

Gosh, they invoke Yahweh all the time! And we know from Ra that there are indeed STS entities hanging around...remember what they said about how the STS nasties eat fear?

But judging by the fact of how unflooded and unburied in blood we are, i'd say the old guy is probably off somewhere in a cosmic mental institute babbling to itself about how its all humanitys fault they wont worship him for ever and ever and ever and ever and ever ad infinitum.

Are we living on the same planet? Have you not noticed how many wars have been fought, and continue to be fought to this very day, by those of Abrahamic religions? I'd say this planet is very bloody.

[Cyan]

I consider the bible for the most part one big negative force.

Jesus was cool. All that love, peace and forgiveness stuff.

Oh you mean this emotional tantrum having guy: (Matthew 10)

34 “Don’t think that I’ve come to bring peace to the earth. I haven’t come to bring peace but a sword. 35 I’ve come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. 36 People’s enemies are members of their own households.[c]

Yeah, sounds positively life affirming.

Most certainly, existence is possible without both aspects to some degree, surely you know this?

Well I've never been to a black magick ritual and don't care to, but last I heard, there wasn't any love/peace/forgiveness stuff in them.

Whereas, in a church, you'll find both.

Way to judge without being to one. =)
I heard a lot of very interesting and threathing things about channelers and spirit contacts before i came here. Should i have believed someone elses opinion and not check for myself? Depending on how you define a black magic ritual, i'm sure you've been to one, but it depends rather widely on how you define magic and ritual.

The fact that you have no trouble going to church does not indicate that the church you go it is not inherantly as negative or more so than any random black magic ritual would be.

I haven't been to a church in at least 10 years. And even then, I went only for the singing, which was uplifting. And the people there genuinely cared about me and prayed for me, and even though their beliefs were quaint and misplaced, I appreciated their willingness to help me. What is uplifting about a black magick ritual? Can you name 1 thing about it that is positive?

Lets see, it brings people together for one? There are usually nice songs (they praise their vision of the one, which while for me, for the most part, disturbing, it is for them their vision and that is always beautiful to me) if you want more then.

Various workers, players, instruments and artifacts need to be helped and guided along various steps to produce the right outcome, and no different, in major part, to any other succesful endevour in that it required group communication, agreement and ability to function harmoniously in a group.

Plus, the sowing people always need a good excuse to make nice clothing

And on a realistic side. IT really depends on how you define black magic. The old adage of trying to harm the cancer cells to stop them from multiplying is one way of looking at it. (cutting out cancer is a classical "black" act) same as dropping salt on an infected wood is black magic for the bacteria living in it. Etc. Also, depending once again on definition.

Most often people believe they can tune the negative out, when in fact they cant. They can tune their awareness of the negative seeping into their mind out of their awareness but not the process itself.

I was fully aware of the negative aspects of religion when I chose to go to that church. It's a matter of what we choose to focus on.

Yup, like i said, you choose to go to a building where you need to unfocus on what is going on to allow you to accept the religion, i call t hat tuning out of the fact that you are being used to fill a bench. Or to fill a coffer, or both.

I know what you mean about focusing on the music and the singing and the nice stuff, its all very nice and good, but you could have a music player with you that has a few CDs of church music that you brought and use the time to go gather food or clothes from the local neighbourhood for the poor. But i must admit, a warm church with people to pat on the back is usually preferable to the cold street. But tuning out is a perfectly good way to face religious dissodance.

That is to say, you can go to church and pretend that the time you spend there isnt time away from feeding, clothing and helping people, but it is still quite away from feeding, clothing, and helping people. The time you choose to spend tuning out is time others choose to spend dying due to people in a position of power to help them spending the same time tuning out.

This is rather amusing, in light of the fact that, right now, we are both choosing to engage in conversation on the internet, rather than being out there feeding and clothing the needy.

Exactly, now you see my point... I hope.

My point is that all acts are inherantly some level of "evil" or "sts" and that cant be stopped because you could always try to improve your actions more and more ad infinity.

That is why, for me, the question isnt that "is going to this ceremony a bad thing"

Its that "is going to this ceremony a worse thing that staying at home and arguing on the internet"

And its a tough call

Really. I sure would hope not, i prefer not to have mass murdering planet killer spirits roaming around on earth.

Gosh, they invoke Yahweh all the time! And we know from Ra that there are indeed STS entities hanging around...remember what they said about how the STS nasties eat fear?

Ofcourse i remember that I mean, most people can do that if they want to, and in fact, most people do, been to any scary amusement park rides lately. Or played a scary game, or watched a scary movie?

They may invoke the flying spaghetti monster, but that doesnt change the fact that there is quite a leap from thought form to spirit complex. Way i see it, Yahweh thought form is essentially allowed here, spirit form is told to go back to school and learn how to not kill his followers.

But judging by the fact of how unflooded and unburied in blood we are, i'd say the old guy is probably off somewhere in a cosmic mental institute babbling to itself about how its all humanitys fault they wont worship him for ever and ever and ever and ever and ever ad infinitum.

Are we living on the same planet? Have you not noticed how many wars have been fought, and continue to be fought to this very day, by those of Abrahamic religions? I'd say this planet is very bloody.

[/quote]

YEs we are, but you are aware how much more bloody those would be if all religions had magic powers like moses or similars did?

Great flood of Iraq as a prelude to the desert storm sounds particularly nasty....

---

will be back tomorrow, night!

[Monica]

Oh you mean this emotional tantrum having guy:

I'm not interested in a bible quote duel! We both know that the bible has lots of misquotes. Who knows what he really said? My point was that he DID say a lot of love/peace/forgiveness stuff too.

Way to judge without being to one. =)
I heard a lot of very interesting and threathing things about channelers and spirit contacts before i came here. Should i have believed someone elses opinion and not check for myself?

shrug

Depending on how you define a black magic ritual, i'm sure you've been to one,

I just told you I never have.

but it depends rather widely on how you define magic and ritual.

Very simple: White magick is for healing; black magick is for harming. White magick isn't done without permission; black magick has no regard for the free will of others. And gray magick has good intentions but without permission so it can inadvertently harm.

Yup, like i said, you choose to go to a building where you need to unfocus on what is going on to allow you to accept the religion,

No, actually I don't choose to do that at all. Did you miss the part about me not being a church-goer?

I choose to no longer go to any church, because it's too much hassle tuning out the preaching, and there are other ways to feel uplifted.

I said I have and I could, if the situation warranted it, like for example to a wedding. I could enjoy the singing and appreciate the good that is there, and make the best of my time there, for the sake of family and friends. I would add my love and blessings to the newlyweds along with all the churchgoers. Genuine prayers of love know no boundaries; if the vibe is positive I wouldn't care what religion it was, just for that short while, while we were praying together for something positive.

been to any scary amusement park rides lately. Or played a scary game, or watched a scary movie?

No, not in many years. I don't do that stuff anymore. I'll pass on the Constantine movie.

i call t hat tuning out of the fact that you are being used to fill a bench. Or to fill a coffer, or both.

I know what you mean about focusing on the music and the singing and the nice stuff, its all very nice and good, but you could have a music player with you that has a few CDs of church music

It's not about the music. I don't like church music. It's about the energy behind the music. A church full of people singing worship songs can generate a very positive vibe.

that you brought and use the time to go gather food or clothes from the local neighbourhood for the poor. But i must admit, a warm church with people to pat on the back is usually preferable to the cold street. But tuning out is a perfectly good way to face religious dissodance.

You apparently have me confused with someone else. I offered my opinion in response to your request, so I'm going to exit this discussion now. Best wishes on whatever you decide!

[BrownEye]

Its that "is going to this ceremony a worse thing that staying at home and arguing on the internet"

I say go do it and have someone take pictures.

Let us know how it all turns out. Post pics. Otherwise you will go through life saying to yourself "what if?"

[hogey11]

@Cyan

So though an entire lifetime, the worst you can come up with is a hissy fit in a temple? Sounds pretty mild to me. Did he ever punch anybody out?

Here's the funny thing: You say you don't want to support 'Yahweh' when that's exactly what you would be doing by participating in the black mass. There is a reason Jesus came as a wanderer from the highest vibration of the 4D spectrum in the religion and position he did; the teachings of the old testament jews was completely corrupted by Orion entities. RA speaks of this very, very clearly.

So if you want to walk the walk, you probably shouldn't be supporting the entity you seem to hate the most. Listen to the things you are proposing like animal & blood sacrifice; hmmm - what does that remind me of? Didn't the OT jews do a lot of that?

As we reach the end of cycle, our intention becomes more and more powerful. If we truly want to enforce the positive vibrations towards 4D+, we must focus upon those energies rather than trying to misdirect or confuse the energies of the STS. They have their own harvest to meet. Don't get distracted with others' catalyst; practice what you preach.

[Unbound]

There is ever the choice.

We choose our path and see the outcome. Then, we choose again.

The choices in each moment are shaped by the choices made in previous moments in a way that is sequential. Every Now consists of every other Now.

The question is what path is an expression of our deepest being? If one has power, is it always the most wise or loving action to display it openly?

With each choice comes the responsibility of that choice, and even though the purity of Rigpa or the Light is ever present, with each choice we either clear the mirror or dirty and obscure it further. Once it is clear, then we maintain that clarity until the moment that it is no longer capable of dirtying without our explicity choice.

[Sagittarius]

Paint your car pink then drive into the ceremony with this playing loudly http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVeUiUYRlVE.

I'am picturing this in my head and it's gold hehe. I think Lord Lucifer himself would have a giggle at this.

[Monica]

Paint your car pink then drive into the ceremony with this playing loudly http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVeUiUYRlVE.

I'am picturing this in my head and it's gold hehe. I think Lord Lucifer himself would have a giggle at this.

Yes!!! That's perfect! And Cyan, you're going to need your strength. It will be a night of no small exertion. So be sure to eat well beforehand!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeZlih4DDNg

or

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbV0VhlIzzo

This meal will get you in the mood and provide plenty of stamina!