Nutrient Density

[Tenet Nosce]

It would be very difficult to have any conversation about diet with discussing nutrient density. That is to say: How much of a given nutrient occurs per unit of food.

But I have noticed that much confusion has appeared due to the conflating of three different units of measurement of food: grams, cups, and calories.

The gram is a unit of mass. This is what is reported when we place something on a scale. In the U.S., we might also discuss ounces or pounds. These are all units of mass.

The cup is a unit of volume. This refers to how much physical space something occupies.

For example, a kilogram of spinach has much more volume than a kilogram of almonds. But they have the same mass.

On the other hand, a cup of almonds has much more mass than a cup of spinach. Yet, they have the same volume.

The calorie is a unit of energy. This refers to how much heat would be released if the food were to be combusted, or burned.

Now let's look at a real-life example using almonds and spinach.

Which has more protein, almonds or spinach? The answer depends on which units you are using.

A cup of almonds has a total mass of 138 grams, and contains 824 calories of energy.

In the cup of almonds is about 30 grams, or 120 calories of protein.

That means, almonds are 21.7% protein by mass and 14.6% protein by energy content.

A cup of spinach has a total mass of 30 grams, and contains 7 calories of energy.

In the cup of spinach is about 1 gram, or 4 calories of protein.

That means, spinach is 3.3% protein by mass and 57.1% protein by energy content.

The human body requires somewhere around 2000 calories of energy from food a day. It also requires somewhere around 60 grams of protein. That means our diet should be somewhere around 12% protein, by calorie.

That means, if we were going to get all of our protein from almonds we would need to eat 2 cups of almonds in a day.

In contrast, if we were going to get all of our protein from spinach we would need to eat 60 cups of spinach in a day.

Something to keep in mind when reading books or watching viral videos on diet. Many "gurus" appear to be confused about these different units.

[BrownEye]

In contrast, if we were going to get all of our protein from spinach we would need to eat 60 cups of spinach in a day.

Are you talking about a cup of loose spinach, or a cup of solid mass? Almonds are larger solids while spinach is thin and loosely layered. A huge difference between fitting a full bundle of spinach in the cup to match the solid of a nut as compared to just dropping loose tossed spinach in the cup, which will be mostly air.

I have been finding that the human body takes in way more than what scientific needs claim. B12 is the best example in my case. The optimal supplementation for me at 175lbs is a single tablet a year. That is, IF I wanted to supplement. That example will change when I move to another part of the planet and possibly not worrying about "sterility" of the food I eat.

[Ruth]

TN - I love that you made the word spinach green!

And when I first read your post I wondered the same thing Pickle mentions. Although the riddle is easily solved if you have a food scale (which I do) and can more accurately determine the mass of the spinach in question.

Thank you for the information.

[Tenet Nosce]

That is a good point regarding how packed the cup is. I would assume this source (nutritiondata.com) is using a lightly-packed cup.

For comparison, I looked at a cup of parsley which I thought should have the same protein density. Sure enough- they have it listed as 60 grams total mass, and 2 grams of protein. So, double what they have for the spinach.

[Ruth]

I seem to recall something from a nutrition course I took in college (many years ago, so I'm sure information has been updated) about the number of amino acids required to make "complete" protein. So mixing protein sources, especially vegetable sources, is necessary to make complete protein. This is why, for example, people added a small amount of meat to a pot of beans, so that the protein would be complete.

In my smoothie I mix various greens: spinach, collards, parsley etc. But have no way to determine if the protein is complete. So I add a scoop of protein powder.

Any thoughts on this topic?

[Tenet Nosce]

I seem to recall something from a nutrition course I took in college (many years ago, so I'm sure information has been updated) about the number of amino acids required to make "complete" protein. So mixing protein sources, especially vegetable sources, is necessary to make complete protein. This is why, for example, people added a small amount of meat to a pot of beans, so that the protein would be complete.

In my smoothie I mix various greens: spinach, collards, parsley etc. But have no way to determine if the protein is complete. So I add a scoop of protein powder.

Any thoughts on this topic?

Amino acids are the building blocks of protein. There are 22 "standard" amino acids relevant to human biochemistry. Incidentally, there are also 22 "standard" vitamins and minerals. (Maybe has something to do with the 22 Archetypes?)

The body can inter-convert many of the amino acids through biochemical pathways. Of course, in order for these pathways to function properly requires adequate nutrients in the diet to begin with.

A subset of about half of the amino acids must be acquired from food. The notion of a "complete protein" arises from foods that contain sufficient amounts of all the amino acids that the body cannot synthesize on its own.

Back in the day, it was considered that only animal protein sources were "complete proteins" however we now know that isn't true. Many "superfoods" like cyanobacteria (blue-green algae), quinoa, chia, amaranth, buckwheat, and soy are vegan sources of complete protein, for example.

Note that most of these foods are staples of various indigenous populations around the world. In addition to this, many traditional preparations, like beans and rice, contain the right mix of vegetable protein to be considered nutritionally "complete."

It is not totally necessary for every meal to be "complete" where protein is concerned, but I think it's a good idea seeing as how the body has limited storage capacity for protein, unlike carbohydrate or fat.

Vegans that are eating a wide variety of plant-based food, including those with high protein density (by gram NOT calorie) i.e. legumes (beans), nuts and seeds, along with a good amount of "superfoods" shouldn't have any problems, whatsoever.

The potential issue arises when we have a vegan who is also a "picky eater" or who attempts to subsist on primarily grains and fruit, with the occasional salad.

[Ruth]

Thank you Tenet Nosce. I didn't mean to imply that meat is necessary, quite the contrary. I'm looking for combinations of food that give us the complete set of amino acids - or at least a mix that would be adequate. And you hit the nail on the head about the picky eater vegan (a niece of mine) who is ill and has lost two pregnancies - the doctors tell her because she is not getting adequate protein.

As for me, I sometimes have a problem with nuts, but feel that the protein powder I use (it is the Sun Warrior brand) gives me what I need when combined with other sources.

I sincerely appreciate your reply.

[Tenet Nosce]

Thank you Tenet Nosce. I didn't mean to imply that meat is necessary, quite the contrary.

I didn't think you implied it. I just figured it would be good for the thread to make that clear from the start.

I'm looking for combinations of food that give us the complete set of amino acids - or at least a mix that would be adequate.

From a complete nutritional standpoint, I would recommend the following priority:

1. Greens and beans
2. Nuts and seeds
3. Herbs, spices, and seasonings
4. Superfoods
5. Cruciferous veggies
6. Squashes and root vegetables
7. Garlic, onions, peppers, and tomatoes
8. Mushrooms
9. Other random veggies, e.g. asparagus, artichoke, fennel, okra, etc.
10. Fruit
11. Whole Grains

Incidentally, this will cover all the 22 essential nutrients in addition to protein.

And you hit the nail on the head about the picky eater vegan (a niece of mine) who is ill and has lost two pregnancies - the doctors tell her because she is not getting adequate protein.

That is often true. But unfortunately, most of the doctors will also not be educated as how a vegan can get enough protein in their diet.

There are also other considerations. The bio-availability of protein varies somewhat from food to food, and from person to person.

Digestive health plays an important role, in particular the production of hydrochloric acid (HCl) in the stomach, and digestive enzymes called proteases by the pancreas. Also any inflammatory process is going to interfere with proper absorption of nutrients.

Then there is gut ecology to consider. For example, we know that bacterial colonization of the human gut manifests as three major types. It is entirely possible that one of the types is best suited to meat-eating. Indeed, one of the types requires more input of iron than the other two.

As for me, I sometimes have a problem with nuts, but feel that the protein powder I use (it is the Sun Warrior brand) gives me what I need when combined with other sources.

A fair amount of people do. What happens when you eat them? Does the same thing happen when you eat seeds? Or how about nut/seed butters?

Sun Warrior... which one? I see the vegan one is based on sprouted whole rice bran. Also looks like it's about $40 per kilo? That's a pretty good price though I think you can get Jarrow brand for closer to $30. I don't think it is sprouted though. NOW foods does a pea protein for $25.

I sincerely appreciate your reply.

You're welcome!

[Ruth]

Nuts & seeds - seem to make me move from diverticulosis to diverticulitis. And although I realize that more recent studies say that isn't the case, it seems to be for me. Perhaps it is more related to a mild allergy because my hubby points out that even eating smooth (organic) peanut butter gives me problems.

Sun Warrior - yes, the vegan one made based on rice bran. I'll look for the Jarrow. And I've never heard of NOW foods - do they mail order? I live in a fairly remote area, so most of these things have shipping tacked on to the price. Except that I am able to purchase the Sun Warrior brand at a vitamin shop I visit about once every couple of months (it is about 45 miles from my home).

Thank you again, Tenet Nosce.

[Tenet Nosce]

Nuts & seeds - seem to make me move from diverticulosis to diverticulitis. And although I realize that more recent studies say that isn't the case, it seems to be for me. Perhaps it is more related to a mild allergy because my hubby points out that even eating smooth (organic) peanut butter gives me problems.

Hmm... could be! It would be interesting to see how you react to tahini (sesame seed butter).

Sun Warrior - yes, the vegan one made based on rice bran. I'll look for the Jarrow. And I've never heard of NOW foods - do they mail order? I live in a fairly remote area, so most of these things have shipping tacked on to the price. Except that I am able to purchase the Sun Warrior brand at a vitamin shop I visit about once every couple of months (it is about 45 miles from my home).

http://www.nowfoods.com/StoreFinder/

[Plenum]

That means, if we were going to get all of our protein from almonds we would need to eat 2 cups of almonds in a day.

In contrast, if we were going to get all of our protein from spinach we would need to eat 60 cups of spinach in a day.

Something to keep in mind when reading books or watching viral videos on diet. Many "gurus" appear to be confused about these different units.

so if we can examine the animal kingdom, most herbivores (horses, cows) eat low nutrient density foods, but in enormous quantities.

- -

in my own formulated diet I have a strong preference for ultra-density foods. I have some frozen peas and corn and a dash of sauerkraut, but that is about the only vege's I have. No fruit at all. Rye bread for fibre content.

I definitely prefer to eat less and chew less

[Tenet Nosce]

so if we can examine the animal kingdom, most herbivores (horses, cows) eat low nutrient density foods, but in enormous quantities.

Yes. Consider African elephants that weigh up to 6,000 kg. Elephants can eat up to 200 kg (440 pounds) of food a day. Assuming a 2% protein content that is 4 kg (8.8 pounds) of protein. So on average, I would say that comes out to about 0.6 grams per kilogram body weight. A bit less than humans, but then again the elephant has a slower metabolic rate. But by comparison, in order to "eat like an elephant" the average person would have to eat about 3 kg (6.6 pounds) of veggies a day! Do-able... but I doubt many are doing this. Also, there would be a heck of a lot of poop involved! Might be better to fire up the juicer after the first couple pounds...

[jacrob]

Ruth a good simple food combination for protein is brown rice and beans in the same meal. Vary your beans or sprout them. Sprouting is very easy to do at home.

You also want to add some superfoods in there to complete the array of minerals.

Firstly get a jar of mixed sea greens with Spirullina, Chlorella and grasses like Barley grass.

Bin your salt and buy only Himalayan salt. (It's relatively cheap online. I buy mine for $30 for 3kg) "...Ordinary table salt is considered poison to the body, because it is basically pure refined sodium and chloride.

Whole crystal salt contains up to 84 elements in almost the exact percentages as your own body. This key food detoxifies the body and puts it back into homeostasis.

So why not sea salt or Celtic salt?
These salts are slightly better than pure sodium chloride. But, both of these salts are subject to present day environmental pollution including agriculture and industrial runoff, not to mention sewage and garbage dumped into the ocean.

Himalayan Crystal salt is over 250 million years old, and was covered by the Himalayan Mountains long before man had a chance to pollute it. It is also mined at 10,000 feet above sea level, out of reach by most modern day contaminants.

With compression this ancient salt has become a crystal matrix, which makes the minerals and elements even more available to our bodies...."


Try to get some bentonite clay into you to ease digestive ailments and provide essential minerals. http://www.scribd.com/doc/48476735/43/Cl...-a-New-Age

Have a kiwi, piece of pineapple or papaya each day to aid digestion.

[Karl]

This topic makes me want to learn how to cook and grow a garden. Also now I'm hungry.

[Ruth]

Tenet Nosce - I do fine with Tahini. I use it frequently to make hummus - roasted garlic being my favorite flavour.

plenum - did you know that free range cows break off grasses etc so they grow back, but horses pull them up by the roots and you have to replant. Just an interesting tidbit I learned along the way.

jacrob - I actually beans and brown rice fairly frequently! I just happen to really like them. Or even just beans, beans and beans (a variety of sizes and colors). And I switched to the Himalayan salt a few months ago on the advice of my friend. The flavor is so much fuller - I can't imagine ever using anything else.

I haven't tried the bentonite clay, but use diatomaceous earth in my diet each day. http://www.earthworkshealth.com/ I also use the DE in my garden, in my home and in and on my pets for pest control. Seems I can get the bentonite clay at a store about 30 miles from me - so maybe next week when I plan to be in that area I'll get some and see if it helps. I do try to eat one of the 3 fruits you mentioned each day, but it is a chore for me because I really don't like them. I did find a nice looking bag of organic kiwi fruit today, though, so I'm set for another week. Thank you so much for the information.

Karl - I have just started learning to grow food in the past 3 years. I highly recommend it! In fact, I have considered starting a gardening thread, but there didn't seem to be much interest, and it really isn't so much of a Law of One topic anyway.

[BrownEye]

Dafuq?

[Cyan]

Thats one bigass tablet, where do you put it? On a metal hook on a wall and nibble pieces off of it when ever you feel like? Because thats the first logical possibility that i could think of for a 175 pound version of vitamin on a single tablet.

[Ruth]

Ruth a good simple food combination for protein is brown rice and beans in the same meal. Vary your beans or sprout them. Sprouting is very easy to do at home.

You also want to add some superfoods in there to complete the array of minerals.

Firstly get a jar of mixed sea greens with Spirullina, Chlorella and grasses like Barley grass.

Bin your salt and buy only Himalayan salt. (It's relatively cheap online. I buy mine for $30 for 3kg) "...Ordinary table salt is considered poison to the body, because it is basically pure refined sodium and chloride.

Whole crystal salt contains up to 84 elements in almost the exact percentages as your own body. This key food detoxifies the body and puts it back into homeostasis.

So why not sea salt or Celtic salt?
These salts are slightly better than pure sodium chloride. But, both of these salts are subject to present day environmental pollution including agriculture and industrial runoff, not to mention sewage and garbage dumped into the ocean.

Himalayan Crystal salt is over 250 million years old, and was covered by the Himalayan Mountains long before man had a chance to pollute it. It is also mined at 10,000 feet above sea level, out of reach by most modern day contaminants.

With compression this ancient salt has become a crystal matrix, which makes the minerals and elements even more available to our bodies...."


Try to get some bentonite clay into you to ease digestive ailments and provide essential minerals. http://www.scribd.com/doc/48476735/43/Cl...-a-New-Age

Have a kiwi, piece of pineapple or papaya each day to aid digestion.

Jacrob - I dreamt a couple of nights ago that I was visiting my great-great-granddaughter at some time in the future and she was decrying the people of our generation for destroying the Himalayans to mine the salt.

Mainly, I'm just bumping this thread for Gemini Wolf who mentioned protein in another thread.

[Monica]

As for me, I sometimes have a problem with nuts,

Have you tried soaking them? Unsoaked nuts can be difficult to digest, even constipating. But soaking them removes the enzyme inhibitors (correct me if I'm wrong on that part, Tenet) which are what keep the nuts from sprouting. Soaking them basically starts the sprouting process.

Here is my nut milk recipe. I make this regularly.

1/2 cup almonds - soak in KW 8 hours or overnight
1/4 cup flax seeds - soak in KW 6-8 hours or overnight
1/4 cup chia seeds - add these to the flax seeds for the last hour or so
1/4 tsp Celtic salt
1/2 tsp vanilla
1-2 TBLSP organic honey

The honey is optional. You could instead use 1-2 pitted dates, or raw agave, or stevia if you like, but I usually use raw local honey. (Only use RAW honey! Grade A honey isn't really honey - it's cut with GMO corn sugar and very bad...not to mention, bad for the bees!)

Drain almonds (to remove the tannins that come out into the water)
Flax and chia will absorb all the water.

Dump the drained almonds, flax, chia and salt into the VitaMix.

Fill almost to the top with KW.

Add a few KW ice cubes (to prevent it from getting warm).

Blend on high speed until liquified.

Then add the vanilla and honey, and blend a few more seconds. It will be all frothy. Immediately pour into mason jars or a large pitcher, before it separates. You'll need to shake or stir before each use.

VARIATION: Use raw walnuts instead of almonds. I do both. I alternate. Both walnuts and almonds are exquisitely healthy for you, if raw and soaked. Walnuts have more Omega-3's. But, they are oilier so I don't rinse them, after noticing that much of the valuable oils come out into the water. So: Do NOT drain walnuts! I just rinse them once before soaking to remove any dust, then soak, and do NOT drain after that.

My family uses this as a base for smoothies. We each have a raw vegan protein smoothie for breakfast every morning. We use about 1 pint of the milk, 1 scoop of the the very best raw vegan protein (SunWarrior Blend), a banana, 1 tsp Maca, and a handful of frozen blueberries and/or strawberries. YUM! Perfect protein, Omega 3's, and fruit. Assuming you can do fruit, it's a great breakfast!

Alternatively, sometimes I do a green smoothie (greens and fruit). Or sometimes I do a green smoothie later.