07-08-2011, 09:07 PM
(07-08-2011, 03:22 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: This is absurd, and you know it. Way to take my comment out of context and, once again, IGNORE the rest of the post. Unbelievable.
i dont 'know' anything, and i havent taken anything 'out of context'.
you have basically proposed that, an act which was not congruent with the positive path, could be made congruent with collective effort, passion, and caring.
that is a broad statement. if it applies in somewhere, there is no rule that says it cannot apply elsewhere. universe does not have exceptions. if a spiritual principle has to pass valid, it passes valid, it doesnt become circumstantial.
Quote:OK, you win. That sausage I ate last weekend is the reason why I can't graduate to 4D. I guess I will have a long time to consider the error of my ways while I spend my next life foraging for nuts and berries. I will do my best to remember not to hunt an animal though, even if my family and I are starving to death, because animals are people too. Aw, heck, plants are people too. Tell you what, I will try to subsist on rocks and sand. Will that satisfy you?
despite all the sarcasm you have exerted, law of responsibility will still keep factoring in the last sausage you ate last weekend, from the deep, subtle mental implementations of you not taking into account that an entity was brutally slaughtered to obtain it, to that meant reducing your effective manifested vibrations due to all the vibrational baggage it carries.
even if i am satisfied, or not satisfied with any choice you make or dont make, law of responsibility will still keep acting indiscriminately.
..........
your graduation to 4d (assuming you are a harvest nearing 3d entity) will come at the end of all aspects of your existence, (including not only that, but also those of unmanifested being's thoughts echoing in time space) factoring into the equation. one aspect of your of existence will not just go away, because you or your societal complex currently find it irrelevant.
Quote:Or are 1D elementals people too?
in fact, there is no such thing as 'people'. in the material we are looking into, there is the concept of 'entity'. and, entities are comprised of mind/body/spirit complexes. moreover, we are told that all entities ranging from the first cell, to the central sun of this galaxy shining at the center to the 7d mind/body spirit complex totality leaving this existence have the same blueprint. (of 7 chakra containing energetic system).
and, actually, with that definition, yes, 1d entities are 'people' too.
http://lawofone.info/results.php?session...c=1&ss=1#8
Quote:3.8 Questioner: How were the blocks moved?
Ra: I am Ra. You must picture the activity within all that is created. The energy is, though finite, quite large compared to the understanding/distortion of your peoples. This is an obvious point well known to your peoples, but little considered.
This energy is intelligent. It is hierarchical. Much as your mind/body/spirit complex dwells within an hierarchy of vehicles and retains, therefore, the shell, or shape, or field, and the intelligence of each ascendingly intelligent or balanced body, so does each atom of such a material as rock. When one can speak to that intelligence, the finite energy of the physical, or chemical, rock/body is put into contact with that infinite power which is resident in the more well-tuned bodies, be they human or rock.
With this connection made, a request may be given. The intelligence of infinite rock-ness communicates to its physical vehicle and that splitting and moving which is desired is then carried out through the displacement of the energy field of rockness from finity to a dimension which we may conveniently call, simply, infinity.
In this way, that which is required is accomplished due to a cooperation of the infinite understanding of the Creator indwelling in the living rock. This is, of course, the mechanism by which many things are accomplished which are not subject to your present means of physical analysis of action at a distance.
Quote:NOTE TO SELF: Offering a rational counterargument to an irrational belief is pointless.
before extending extreme efforts on sarcasm, and dropping on a note to yourself in that direction, you should have dropped a note to yourself in regard to the possibility that you may be talking on a material on which you havent extensively thought about, as evidenced above.
it is apparent that, you are missing a lot of information from the material, like still having a 'people' concept in your mind, in addition to 1d being something so out of your world, and you standing way apart, as if you were an entity which was subject to totally different spiritual rules and mechanics despite living in the same universe which was created on the same laws. the concept that 1d material has a 'body' and it is subject to same mechanics spiritually from 1th chakra to 7th chakra like what you call a human, seems to have escaped you.
(07-08-2011, 03:33 PM)abridgetoofar Wrote:(07-08-2011, 02:22 PM)unity100 Wrote:(07-08-2011, 01:00 PM)abridgetoofar Wrote: Otherwise, how does a particular species evolve to 3D, rather than an individual?
just like how gandalf the cat has passed over the threshold of 3d, before the group soul we know as 'felix domesticus' has passed into 3d as entirety.
No, Gandalf passed over the threshold because of investment from 3D entities. An entire species would not gain that investment in a single incarnation. Without investment, the process is obviously different.
..............
Again, because Gandalf was invested with love and gained self-awareness, it could make this choice. I don't see how a choice for self can be made without self-awareness. And I don't agree the mechanics for gaining self-awareness without investment are the same.
if you read the relevant quotes from lawofone.info, you will easily see that gandalf was mentioned as harvestable, whereas another cat entity was mentioned as harvestable through investment. this implies clear difference in the way they were qualified for harvest at that point in time.
moreover, gandalf was more advanced in mind complex compared to the other cat entity, and this was the reason he was susceptible to psychic attacks, whereas the other cat entity wasnt.
Quote:Again, you're right in regards to investment. We have no examples of a single entity graduating 3D without investment, we do have an example of species though.
which was the example of that species which graduated as a collective into 3d ? i must have missed it.
no conditions were given for harvest from 2d, except the condition of becoming aware of existence of self as a separate entity. in any case in which the harvest required a condition, it was given - like 4d harvest being a collective harvest, 6d same.
it is straightforward to assume there is no such mandatory collectivity requirement.
Quote:3D is the first density of consciousness of spirit, there is no spirit in the complex of a 2D animal.
that would be incorrect.
http://lawofone.info/results.php?session...c=1&ss=1#3
Quote:19.3 Questioner: When this transition from second to third density takes place, how does the entity, whether it be animal, [vegetable] tree, or mineral, become enspirited?
Ra: I am Ra. Entities do not become enspirited. They become aware of the intelligent energy within each portion, cell, or atom, as you may call it, of its beingness.
the spirit is there, increasingly becoming apparent and entity increasingly growing aware of it, all throughout the 4.6 billion years of 2d.
yes - i had misremembered, its not 2 billion years, it seems 2d spans an entire 4.6 billion years.
Quote:The evolution is of the mind, which I'm assuming the body follows.
the evolution of body is not so relevant in regard to this. mind/spirit complexes can be attached to any body that can function in the proper vibration the mind/spirit requires.
but more importantly :
Quote:The mind is without self-awareness, sparking from the group mind, until the group mind may gain enough experience to realize self, in which all of the minds within would realize self.
the mind complex, where all the entities experience everything, apparently INCLUDING feelings like love. therefore, any kind of progression of the entity would be kept with the mind/spirit complex, including any entity ranging from 1d, to 6d. this would mean that, even in 1d there are different levels of progression, as well as 6d. 2d would be no exception.
however this level of depth wouldnt be needed, since we were not given for any requirement for 2d harvest other than becoming aware of self.
Quote:When it is the species and not the individual which graduates, I would beg to differ.
could it be that you are confusing the lines that pass in the talk of 2d about the evolution of the 3d body from the 2d bodies, with the evolution of entities from 2d to 3d ?
http://lawofone.info/results.php?categor...&sc=1&ss=1
because, they are not the same. evolution of the body, as you may notice, is rather separate from evolution of the mind/spirit complexes of entities, and rather subject to the whim of the logos in 2d.
Quote:There is a major difference between entities in and above 3D and entities in 2D, that is self-awareness.
same kind of major difference could be put forward in between entities of any density actually. self awareness as a qualifier is not so different than contacting intelligent infinity from heart chakra as a qualifier, or that is not so different than the 5d harvestable entity being ready to handle light as a qualifier. neither any of these are too different than the qualifier of 1d to 2d harvest, the desire to develop and move without dispersion.
these are all qualifiers for densities. no density stands apart from others, they are all sub octaves created to manifest a certain meaning of existence.
you seem to be rather exaggerating the qualifier for 3d in importance, in order to use it as a justifier for various things. the same justification mechanic can be employed by an entity in 4d, to do things to entities in 3d.
Quote:I'm not so sure about this, is this based on Ra material? I'm not inclined to think a soul will leave its species group consciousness unless it is invested by a 3D entity and gains self-awareness. Otherwise, I find it logical to assume that if a species gains self-awareness, the species in the group soul gain self-awareness, and the species graduates to 3D.
yes, this is based on the material. the material says all octaves are an octave of consciousness, and no talk of collective harvest passes.
however, i think this will put your question on this matter to rest - i was looking for this quote since a while :
http://lawofone.info/results.php?session...c=1&ss=1#5
Quote:19.5 Questioner: When the first second-density entities became third-density on this planet, was this with the help of the transfer of beings from Mars, or were there second-density beings who transferred into third density with no outside influence?
Ra: I am Ra. There were some second-density entities which made the graduation into third density with no outside stimulus but only the efficient use of experience.
Others of your planetary second density joined the third-density cycle due to harvesting efforts by the same sort of sending of vibratory aid as those of the Confederation send you now. This communication was, however, telepathic rather than telepathic/vocal or telepathic/written due to the nature of second-density beings.
notice no mention of species, or group consciousness or collective.
Quote:I don't see why all of this can't apply to a group consciousness gaining experiences from its individual mind/body complex incarnations. Otherwise, why would there even be a group consciousness? Why would the group consciousness exist if the entities didn't exist as a group? They'd just exist as individuals, maybe unaware of themselves, but not as a group.
entire creation (at least in this octave) is comprised of collectives. it is not something particular to 2d, or even any particular specie, but rather everything. separate, discrete small units come together to form more complex concepts. these complex collectives may or may not be persistent. like, how the societal complex of 3d is not at all persistent, despite the societal memory complex of 4d is.
the question you pose has deeper implications if one analyzes at length, and we would end up with infinite intelligence and the finites if we did.
in addition to the other things i explained above, like no harvest requirement for 2 to 3d, the above quote i linked should alleviate the question in this level though.
Quote:When a goat which I have cared for its entire life roughly shoves me out of the way to get to some food, I think the vibration is rather clear: I care more about food than your well-being. I don't take it personally, and it doesn't make me love the goat less, but it does make me aware of how aware this goat is as far as individualism.
you will find that people on many parts of the globe will shove you out of their way if you are standing in their way in between them and much more trivial things, and this is not even considered anything, leave aside rude. however even touching is considered rude in western culture. as said, these are more cultural biases than any kind of real indicator.
goats are evolved to toss. in a species that tosses for fun, 'roughly shove' is not something that should be noticed.
Quote:I wouldn't say they differ "wildly," otherwise they wouldn't be the most popular house pet. We would have an outrageous variety of house pets, because different group consciousnesses would have varying levels of awareness appropriate to be considered "part of the family."
as entities close towards 3d, the quirks and differences in between the group souls become more evident as their spiritual characteristics sharpen. not so different than 3d entities varying even more wildly among each other.
but, then again there is also the curious proposition that, the homo sapiens sapiens 'group soul', naturally prefers to interact with species with which it can have interactions understandable according to its own physiology and mental biases, as opposed to being able to enjoy the spiritual accompaniment of entities.
for what you can name as a reliable, true kind of energetic/spiritual proximity to be possible, the entities will need to be able to manifest 4d characteristics at length, so they will be able to enjoy accompaniment of entities that are not so compatible with the physiology and societal biases of the homo sapiens sapiens monkey body.
Quote:These "individual quirks" could easily be explained by the fact that the closeness of their group soul to 3D. The goats have very little individual quirks. It's very noticeable that they're slaves to their environment and genes. They do gain personalities because every situation is different, but watching a goat grow up, it's very easy to see how it gains this personality.
then again, trees are quite 3d capable bodies, and they also graduate. however, as someone in a homo sapiens sapiens monkey body, you are unable to discern characteristic differences in between trees which qualify for harvest at that point in time, despite they have to show the character variedness of entities closing in on 3d harvest.
again, all depends on the societal biases of the given 3d society, and the abilities of 3d vehicle. leave aside capabilities of the entity that inhabits that body as a mind/spirit complex.
Quote:I think what we have are different theories of how 2D group consciousness works. I'd be much more interested in find some reference in the Ra material or otherwise acceptable source than us explaining the logic behind our theories.
i think i have just provided it.
had 3d graduation had a collective requirement, there would be no possibility of entities graduating through investment either. all densities, in case you havent noticed, have only one requirement for their harvests, and they provide no exceptions in any of those cases.
things like '4d harvest is a collective harvest, but if you blah blah, you can get harvested in this or that .....' -> 4d harvest has a social memory complex harvest requirement, and it happens only as such.
similarly, 'you have to harvest as a group soul, but if you are invested ...' would constitute an exception.
that would make places/1d entities qualifying for 3d harvest through investment, even more impossible.