New Zeitgeist movie

[unity100]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z9WVZddH9w

Actually this could fit in any of the forums, even the LOO forum if you just notice that the city system (and entire planetary society) described basically just reflects 'planet as an entity' - aka society complex. just as it would fit 'harvest' since its related to what is coming up, technology due to technological concepts, life on planet earth due to its subject and so on.

but since i couldnt place it anywhere, i placed it in olio.

[Lorna]

going to make some time to watch this properly, from the first part i've watched it looks very interesting
thanks for posting

[Amiyou]

Although the zeitgeist movies seem to make a great deal of sense and speak of things that are undeniably correct, in my opinion, I think it's something that should be looked at very carefully before buying into it.
As an example. In the spirituality section of the website you may find it to be basically trying to remove any ideas one may have of a higher sense of self.

I copied this small part just to show what concerned me.

"Similarly, the idea of 'praying' to a god for a particular request, has also statistically proven to have little effect on an outcome, not to mention the evidence to support a personified creator doesn't exist in any scientific way...rather it is often derived from ancient historical literary speculation and tradition."

" Many "spiritual practices" which have existed in the past, no longer exist due the understandings that have come about in regard to natural phenomenon. As a base example, early religions often 'sacrificed' animals for certain purposes... this rarely happens today, as the relevance of such an act has proven pointless in its desired effect. Likewise, rarely do people perform 'raindances' in order to influence the weather... today we understand how weather patterns are created, and ritual practices have no provable effect."

That may not be enough to convey the concern I felt when reading it, so maybe you could go and read the whole page in your own time.
Of course I could be misunderstanding the intention, but when the practice of 'raindance' is described the way it is, I can't help but feel that the idea of focused collective intention being portrayed as ridiculous superstitious belief, which quantum physics is on the edge of proving without doubt is most certainly real, that they are either very behind on science or trying to take away peoples power.
I'd like to know what others think of that.

[Peregrinus]

I just finished watching it. Obviously those that produced this are lacking in spirituality, but for the most part they have things correct. At least they advocate peaceful protest, whereas I thought they were going the opposite direction. There is also the idea of globalization of management of resources vs. localization which I would disagree with. Overall, thought provoking for a majority of people in helping them to understand a future which is not petro and money based.

[unity100]

Although the zeitgeist movies seem to make a great deal of sense and speak of things that are undeniably correct, in my opinion, I think it's something that should be looked at very carefully before buying into it.
As an example. In the spirituality section of the website you may find it to be basically trying to remove any ideas one may have of a higher sense of self.

................

but when the practice of 'raindance' is described the way it is, I can't help but feel that the idea of focused collective intention being portrayed as ridiculous superstitious belief, which quantum physics is on the edge of proving without doubt is most certainly real, that they are either very behind on science or trying to take away peoples power.
I'd like to know what others think of that.

that is because for a good measure of this planet's history, religion, anything mystic, has been used as a control tool to take away people's power for real by keeping them sleeping, sedated, or ignorant.

actually, even today, religion is being used as a control tool by the right. in all countries, the right wing has an affiliation with religiousness, and you often see them vulgarly exploiting that kind of rhetoric.

but what is more, you will find that in the wanderer wave that Ra talks about, most of the prominent figures were against religion, or anything mystic of sorts. or kept a noticeable distance from them. a goodly number of them were deists, who said that everything that exists was 'the god', and one could learn/know it by learning what was around them. these include some prominent figures we know to be wanderers. jefferson for example, was quite a secularist to the point of making him rather an enemy of radical religious right in america today. franklin, from what i remember was also a deist. these are what we know to be wanderers for sure. however, if we look at the affiliations of these people, who they worked with, and the inclinations of contemporary or later period people who worked for the same causes with same fervor, we see that most of them were in the same direction. it is natural that these include a good deal of wanderers. (else it wouldnt make a 'wave of wanderers' for Ra to say it like that). that naturally includes majority of the scientists in the 19th century.

actually, if one looks at it, it is easy to see that these wanderers had their spirituality in a similar way to how we have it today.

just, back then, with the available vibration level of the planet and the information that was available, it was reflecting as deism, naturalism, today, we have a lot more to build on to go further about our innate spiritualism.

[Amiyou]

Although the zeitgeist movies seem to make a great deal of sense and speak of things that are undeniably correct, in my opinion, I think it's something that should be looked at very carefully before buying into it.
As an example. In the spirituality section of the website you may find it to be basically trying to remove any ideas one may have of a higher sense of self.

................

but when the practice of 'raindance' is described the way it is, I can't help but feel that the idea of focused collective intention being portrayed as ridiculous superstitious belief, which quantum physics is on the edge of proving without doubt is most certainly real, that they are either very behind on science or trying to take away peoples power.
I'd like to know what others think of that.

that is because for a good measure of this planet's history, religion, anything mystic, has been used as a control tool to take away people's power for real by keeping them sleeping, sedated, or ignorant.

actually, even today, religion is being used as a control tool by the right. in all countries, the right wing has an affiliation with religiousness, and you often see them vulgarly exploiting that kind of rhetoric.

but what is more, you will find that in the wanderer wave that Ra talks about, most of the prominent figures were against religion, or anything mystic of sorts. or kept a noticeable distance from them. a goodly number of them were deists, who said that everything that exists was 'the god', and one could learn/know it by learning what was around them. these include some prominent figures we know to be wanderers. jefferson for example, was quite a secularist to the point of making him rather an enemy of radical religious right in america today. franklin, from what i remember was also a deist. these are what we know to be wanderers for sure. however, if we look at the affiliations of these people, who they worked with, and the inclinations of contemporary or later period people who worked for the same causes with same fervor, we see that most of them were in the same direction. it is natural that these include a good deal of wanderers. (else it wouldnt make a 'wave of wanderers' for Ra to say it like that). that naturally includes majority of the scientists in the 19th century.

actually, if one looks at it, it is easy to see that these wanderers had their spirituality in a similar way to how we have it today.

just, back then, with the available vibration level of the planet and the information that was available, it was reflecting as deism, naturalism, today, we have a lot more to build on to go further about our innate spiritualism.

Ok, I'm not quite sure I know what you mean. Putting Ra and wanderers aside for a moment. I am aware that religion has been used to manipulate in many ways. But the point was really that, that section clearly tries to say that collective focused intent practices are pretty much a silly, useless idea. And if quantum physics is saying the opposite is actually the case, then what I was concerned about is still a concern.
It's all very well having a really good physical set up in society that the zeitgeist movement describes, but with that view on spirituality it puts the individual firmly back in place as one who feels disconnected from a higher spiritual understanding of life, and so only concern themselves with the physical ideas of resources etc, and i'd imagine that a society with that belief system would be a very cold and non feeling place. Just my feeling of it anyway.

[unity100]

Ok, I'm not quite sure I know what you mean. Putting Ra and wanderers aside for a moment. I am aware that religion has been used to manipulate in many ways. But the point was really that, that section clearly tries to say that collective focused intent practices are pretty much a silly, useless idea. And if quantum physics is saying the opposite is actually the case, then what I was concerned about is still a concern.
It's all very well having a really good physical set up in society that the zeitgeist movement describes, but with that view on spirituality it puts the individual firmly back in place as one who feels disconnected from a higher spiritual understanding of life, and so only concern themselves with the physical ideas of resources etc, and i'd imagine that a society with that belief system would be a very cold and non feeling place. Just my feeling of it anyway.

just think about the opposite case, which is the case today.

the situation today, doesnt say anything regarding any kind of concentrated collective intent. it doesnt make any statements, bar or prevent anything. so, in technicality, you are free to practice whatever concentrated collective intent you wish. there is 'freedom' then.

but, all entities have to struggle for existence in a pyramid hierarchy, with 80% of population being in the lowest poor. they do not have any time to pursue any concentrated intent. collective, or personal. their practice remains at the level of praying to themselves in the still of the night or in their heads, and maybe going occasionally to a communion.

so basically, there is an ascribed freedom, but there is total lack of freedom in respects of the necessities of life.

in the zeitgeist case, there is total liberation from any necessities life may force on an entity through survival needs. the entity does not have to do any particular thing to survive, its mental, physical and spiritual energies are its own to use.

.............

to manifest as anything and manifest anything, one needs to survive first. there is no escaping this. in any density, there will be requisites to survival, either in form of food or energy received or concentration spent. so, entity will always need to survive in a fashion, in order to manifest anything.

that is directly reflected by density arrangement red comes first, orange comes second. so, survival needs to be fulfilled for there to be choice, social interactions, acceptance, expression, co-creation and so on.

in that the approach there may be seen as opening the first 3 chakras. red, orange and yellow, with no conditions and blockages.

manifested spiritualism is not there. naturally, since it begins consciously with green. if the first 3 is open, the possibility for green will be there.

[Fallen Destiny]

The thing about all of these conspiracy theories is that it usually works with the same madlib formula.

Fact that most people know + Something about that people don't know (sometimes made up out of thin air) = (insert crazy conspiracy theory here)

The best liars use the most truth.

I'll give an easy example that has recently become popular thanks to "Sorcha - Faal" a well known cry-wolf conspiracy website.

Lots of Naval Ships have been sent to the Gulf of Aden Vortex by almost every country that has a Navy to what the media describes is to protect ships and stop Somalian pirates (being that it's the gulf that all OIL and Diamonds travel through for all of these countries...). But throwing that aside this MUST mean there is a STARGATE INTO ANOTHER DIMENSION OF WHICH Ra IS RETURNING THROUGH.

.... What?! How do people come up with that?? Where is there any sign of that?

I mean Gulf of Aden + Vortex + Some fake Wikileaks with no actual source = Conspiracy FACT apparently.

I'm sick of all of these "facts". You can connect everything in the universe if you try hard enough, I don't know.. maybe because we are all a part of this universe?

[unity100]

there is nothing conspiracy about the negative system of the society however. and the way wall street works, or economy works. these are taught in schools in econ classes, and totally legitimate in our culture, through a twist of fate.

.............

i understand that you havent watched the video at all, and instead talking from knowledge of earlier zeitgeist movie, which was about the 9/11 attacks.

this movie, is not that movie, and talking about something entirely different.

[Fallen Destiny]

Doesn't matter. It's made by the same people with the same motives. Spreading these half-truths and lies has an origin in something of a self-defeating or self-destructive nature. I'd warn to stay away from it but I feel the point would go unnoticed here.

Best to do your own research than watch a video. If you really need it shown to you in a physical format that's a slander of your own conscientiousness.

[unity100]

Doesn't matter. It's made by the same people with the same motives.

what 'motives' are those ?

have you watched the video ?

Spreading these half-truths and lies has an origin in something of a self-defeating or self-destructive nature. I'd warn to stay away from it but I feel the point would go unnoticed here.

there isnt any 'half truth' in that video. again, have you watched the video ?

Best to do your own research than watch a video.

do you know what research is in there in that video, and which researchers are speaking, in that video ?

have you watched the video ?

If you really need it shown to you in a physical format that's a slander of your own conscientiousness.

for the 4th time, have you watched the video so that you are speaking so certainly and definitely contrasting the things that are in that video ?

......................

apologies, i have just understood that you havent watched the video. hence the sentence 'doesnt matter' that is preceding your post. i have posted the above while i didnt know you watched the video or not.

so, i am now correcting my question :

why are you talking so certainly and definitely about something which you have no information on the contents of ?

[native]

The video has it's good points, but I found its solutions to be lacking. For instance it starts off great by slamming consumerism as being unnecessary, then later in the video presents this grand plan on how to be effective producers and consumers. Huh? His intent being to create equality so we all have everything we need and want.

Creating equality and harmony is great, which seems to be the main message, but his answers are entirely cerebral and uninspiring..lacking any spirituality. Given his previous videos this is to be expected. He slams the current paradigm as being useless, yet has nothing to offer other than how to be efficient beings. If the current paradigm is useless, and his paradigm offers nothing other than maximizing efficiency, what is really different between the two other than less suffering?

I'm not saying his message is wrong I suppose. It's more of a critique towards existence without any kind of deeper striving towards who and what we are.

[unity100]

Creating equality and harmony is great, which seems to be the main message, but his answers are entirely cerebral and uninspiring..lacking any spirituality.

what needs to be spiritual about providing food to everyone ? fulfilling basic needs ? the act of doing that is spiritual enough ...

yet has nothing to offer other than how to be efficient beings.

maybe because i had engineering training i instantly see what is different. however, it shouldnt be too different for any untrained eye either.

the plan he proposes is entirely different from how we are doing things today. it revolves on meeting actual need, on-demand. it is not about efficiency, but, how things are decided to be done.

the video explains it quite well, however, if we reiterate, current economy decides what to produce and sell depending on what profit it sees, in the persona of all companies separately. leaving aside efficiency/waste concepts, it actually even creates nonexistent consumption/demand for goods that are not necessary. then, decides the format and level of production entirely itself, and supplies into the market. while doing that, it targets certain prices, which itself estimated. it employs various selling schemes and promotions, in order to further induce demand.

what the video proposes, is basically automation of entire decision making, based on real demand.

ie, i go and enter a demand for, say, a monitor of certain size and properties. 20,000 other people worldwide do the same in one cycle. in the production cycle, these units are produced and delivered to us, entirely.

i get what i demand, not more, not less, exactly what i want. the decider of production, is therefore, basically people, and the demand, is real. no units of monitors wastes in storehouses or thrown away. 30,000 monitors are not produced and sold through advertising, persuasion, promotion or bundling schemes. nothing what people may not need (ie, selling me a 18 inch monitor instead of a 22 inch one) is not produced. all demand is real, fit and exact.

now replace monitor with any food item, and you will see the importance of example.

.................

the video is basically about democratizing the economy. currently, only politics is democraticized - ie, supposedly we all have equal vote.

but, the economic side of life, is entirely feudal in that, any sufficiently powerful individual/group can single handedly decide what can be done with any given amount of resources they control.

as you can understand, situation is totally anti-democratic, resulting in incidents like millions of tonnes of grain rotting in warehouses in order to keep grain prices up at a certain level, while there is hunger in africa.

................

you are seeking for a deeper striving towards what we are. but, noone can find time to strive for anything, if they are in the struggle of surviving. and more than 80% of, for example u.s., is in that fight for struggle.

in an environment as depicted, the entity would find endless time and energy to engage in any spiritual activity, from art, to meditation to science.

[native]

I understand the system and I think it's valid (especially about money as Ra has commented on before), but there are a lot of suppositions needed to happen between now and then that are highly unlikely to occur.

To deprogram would take who knows how many years, and we don't have the luxury of easing into a completely new system. Not to mention there would be violence by many at the idea of everything becoming centralized and shared. Are we speaking theoretically on the ideal ways to solve our problems, or are we actually trying to come up with a solution?

I don't see spirituality as necessary to evolve into a loving and productive equal society. I guess what I'm trying to say is that we have many of the answers, we have done the spiritual work and the truth is there, but it is suppressed.

So before I go on are we speaking hypothetically or trying to come up with a real solution?

---

I should say it's possible to move into a new era but not by his approach. More truth has to come out and assumes that STS will give up their power which won't happen.

That's why I said his approach lacks. It is entirely scientific and doesn't create the necessary paradigm shift that is needed at this moment.

[unity100]

To deprogram would take who knows how many years, and we don't have the luxury of easing into a completely new system.

and the alternative is what ? staying in this negative oriented/formatted system, and ... what really ?

Not to mention there would be violence by many at the idea of everything becoming centralized and shared. Are we speaking theoretically on the ideal ways to solve our problems, or are we actually trying to come up with a solution?

those who would be violent to this, would be violent to anything the upcoming changes will bring.

there are segments that see giving without taking anything as heresy, a violation of order, violation of the system even.

there will be no change unless the change braves to take these problems head on.

stopping by and expecting these segments, parties to 'slowly transform and come to appreciate' the new changes, is, naive. they wont. because, its their choice.

I don't see spirituality as necessary to evolve into a loving and productive equal society. I guess what I'm trying to say is that we have many of the answers, we have done the spiritual work and the truth is there, but it is suppressed.

lets say truth is not suppressed. see, you, me, people here, a lot of us have a good measure of truth by now. we know it.

and what will we do today and tomorrow ?

we will get up, and go attend the work we have to in order to survive. in the manner and fashion the system wants us to. some of us were lucky, or braved a good amount of hardship to be able to find or set up jobs for ourselves which we could find more in alignment with our spiritual principles or our liking. however still, what we are doing will have to be inside, and perpetuating the system, even if the effect is minimized. rest, wont even have that kind of opportunity.

knowing truth doesnt change anything, unless you are able to bring that truth into your life in practice.

So before I go on are we speaking hypothetically or trying to come up with a real solution?

---

I should say it's possible to move into a new era but not by his approach.

let me directly say what i think.

this, is what is going to happen eventually. that is basically the format of a positive 4d society. the only thing that is lacking there is the spirituality part. however this is not something systems bring. vibrations and souls bring these. since earth is 4d aligned soon, and 4d+ entities are incarnating, it is a given that there will be spirituality.

the question here is, how fast does that happen. it may take 500 years when all the rotten here dies out, or, it may happen sooner.

i, for one, wouldnt want the newcomer 4d entities have to suffer ANYthing that was due to the burdens and responsibilities of the theatrics going on in this planet's or this solar system's past.

no, really. they are not responsible with any of those, in no respect. none of them has to slaver away their life for the next 50 years, because of some spoiled souls that some society complex has empowered with toys and methods have set up an exploitation system in place to exploit billions of low-awareness entities. i am currently seeing examples of such apparent 4d graduates incarnated around me here, young and with all properties of 4d, suffering through the forced education system that is tailored to make them cogs in the exploitation mechanics, and i am very, very displeased with this.

More truth has to come out and assumes that STS will give up their power which won't happen.

if i had any logoic authority, i would speedily start ending the incarnations of those who were allowed to make this planet a travesty of existence with its positive entities and negative system, starting a while ago. it is beyond wise to allow billions to suffer so that some small percentage of stragglers will, maybe, hopefully, suddenly come to realization of various things and start advancing.

That's why I said his approach lacks. It is entirely scientific and doesn't create the necessary paradigm shift that is needed at this moment.

paradigm shift is not something that is tied to systems. it will happen regardless of what system you employ. but, it is totally naive and irresponsible to just sit and wait in a negative formatted system thinking that paradigm will shift, and everything will 'just happen'. it ignores the rule of responsibility.

[Focus123]

Good movie in describing the situation. How we get to the new system that's another story. I remember reading Monroe's last book where he states that all change comes out of necessity.At what point do we hit a bifurcation point were critical mass is reached for that change and how it will manifest is anybody's guess. We are so in-rooted in the current system. Look at Atlantis ,with there Spiritual advancement, and what happened .I guess the only thing we can do on a micro scale is to do what we are already doing reading, meditating and becoming aware.My feeling is that this will not be an easy transition.

From a Kabbalist perspective:

http://www.enterthezohar.com/?utm_source...ar#lesson1

[unity100]

Good movie in describing the situation. How we get to the new system that's another story.

quite. nomatter how, those who are entrenched in their bias in this system will not let go of their biases easily, or try to turn the system to their preference again. not to mention those who actually oversee the system.

[native]

You and I are in agreement. I'm saying quit the bulls**t and let's get the show on the road. I'm saying we need true revelation of truths that we already know.

At what point in preserving free will up until harvest do you come to the realization that it's time to knock the dinner table over? We are enslaved and our progression has been held back. Truth has been withheld. Yes it's true that a lot of it has been through free will (for the most part), and that is all fine and good and valuable/necessary, but it's obvious that this Sub-Logos is learning a great deal in terms of free will. The heavy veiling is not working, and many entities inevitably become enslaved to a great extent.

So what I'm saying is we need radical change..not just easing into an ideal system. The more truth and awakening, the more positive polarization and loss of STS influence.

Our political systems are fraudulent and are designed to progress into further enslavement. The Tea Party is a joke, but you see people becoming very angry with the system here in America. We need more whistle blowers.

We need to be vocal at all times. Teach when you see any opportunity, and if it's not accepted, move on. Today I was in public talking with someone I didn't know, and the conversation allowed me to go into a rant about running out of resources..how we need drastic change..how there is no other option.

You spoke of inevitably still working within the system. I think it's best to break away from it as much as possible by being self-sustainable, and create small communities. I'm working on just that. Learn how to farm, hunt, and preserve for the winter. We still have to be available for service though.

Work for yourself. I'm doing my best to become self-reliant. We must practice what we preach, and those around me are noticing. They very much are aware that I do not wish to participate in the current system.

I think perhaps the best way to reach people is to awaken them to how our future is in necessity of change..how there is no other option. We need to be vocal about the damage we're causing the earth. We need to be vocal about consumerism not being an option anymore. We need to be vocal on how procreating is not an option at this point. All this is known, but they put it in the back of their minds. It's time to bring these issues to the forefront and be repetitive. Our problems can't be ignored anymore.

We are here to be catalysts, not just sit back and let free-will go by the wayside. Free-will has been breached in many cases, and it's time to restore balance.

All this is known and has been said over and over, but it's time to be more active.

[native]

It really is a frustrating topic to discuss, because there is no convenient answer and it's constantly asked. It becomes a tired message, but it's true.

The problem is we know negative entities want centralized control disguised as cooperation. So how do we approach all of this? Above all I guess we try and manifest our thoughts into change, focusing on creating love and understanding. Breaking away from our current paradigm is about focusing on each other, instead of the distractions we busy ourselves with. If we create positive polarization in others, things will inherently go wrong for the negative entities.

[zanny]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z9WVZddH9w

Thanks unity100 for posting this. I thought this Zeitgeist movie was the best of the three. I like that there was no demon-izing of any behavior and how it began talking about basic human needs and reactions to upbringing. I also thought that the discussion about addiction was right on point.

I thought the solutions offered were common sense based and not to far-out as to be unreachable. Of course to change the current system we will undoubtedly encounter and experience some "inconveniences" but that is to be expected in any paradigm change.

I am at a point where I applaud any well thought out and workable solutions. It is so easy to sit back and point out all the "wrong" but to stand up and offer solutions that involve real change has always been met with resistance.

Inertia is difficult to overcome, hence the need for catalyst...

zanny

[unity100]

At what point in preserving free will up until harvest do you come to the realization that it's time to knock the dinner table over? We are enslaved and our progression has been held back. Truth has been withheld. Yes it's true that a lot of it has been through free will (for the most part), and that is all fine and good and valuable/necessary, but it's obvious that this Sub-Logos is learning a great deal in terms of free will. The heavy veiling is not working, and many entities inevitably become enslaved to a great extent.

the deal is, i dont think that there had been free will on this planet since a long time (in our close history at least, in the last few thousand years, as technology progressed).

for you see, a very minor segment of the society is able to hold the others in subservience through usage of technology. this first manifested as warlike societies enslaving others or killing them if they did not obey in early history, then it turned into control by societal mechanisms and religion, now, technological mechanisms. the threat of bodily destruction of the entity if they disobey still stands.

in such an environment there can not be free will. there can only be subservience. even the negative entities are not able polarize, because it requires being able to enslave others to do it. if they do not possess the tools to fight off their enslavers and have the tools to enslave others, they wont polarize.

thats even not counting the fact that, there can be no meaningful free giving in an environment in which you are enslaved. you dont give freely, it is taken from you, by someone you dont want to give it to.

that is totally discounting the fact that, polarization needs to happen spiritually. when a negative entity enslaves others through usage of technology, without having to exert self-oriented willpower and intent, it does not cause them to polarize. its more like running a machine.

this is why some channelings from other sources say that spiritual progress has been lost in this planet due to the extreme usage of tools and technology, and they see it as a distraction.

You spoke of inevitably still working within the system. I think it's best to break away from it as much as possible by being self-sustainable, and create small communities. I'm working on just that. Learn how to farm, hunt, and preserve for the winter. We still have to be available for service though.

Work for yourself. I'm doing my best to become self-reliant. We must practice what we preach, and those around me are noticing. They very much are aware that I do not wish to participate in the current system.

i dont want to work for myself. i want to work with others.

moreover, i dont want to go farm, hunt, and preserve for winter, just because the overseers of this locale has been rather lackluster in their wisdom and allowed such a travesty of a situation to come into being in this society. its like going back to 2d, whereas not being a 2d entity anymore.

lets face it - not only a lot of entities here (4d incarnates, wanderers, late 3d entities) have much higher activity in mind, spirit in order to be able to go back to a primeal life style, and live like that for prolonged periods of time. neither we should have to.

we need to be able to create communities in which we can live as egalitarian sentients, together, without having to bow to any group or individual, technologically, but in harmony with nature.

this is not an utopia - i very much think that this is the case in most of the galaxy in positive formatted societies.

I think perhaps the best way to reach people is to awaken them to how our future is in necessity of change..how there is no other option. We need to be vocal about the damage we're causing the earth. We need to be vocal about consumerism not being an option anymore. We need to be vocal on how procreating is not an option at this point. All this is known, but they put it in the back of their minds. It's time to bring these issues to the forefront and be repetitive. Our problems can't be ignored anymore.

now see,

up till last 1.5 years or so, i didnt think the way i thought about this situation. i didnt think that it was necessary to change the system, so that the people could have freedom. i though that, the system we had, was working, with its evils. and i thought it had good sides. it took me a while to come into a realization of what was going on, and the system reinforcing itself to feed itself, combining a lot of what i have learned through history, spiritualism and life experience. up till that point i thought this was a normal course of events, and when the time comes everything would change properly and easily like a switch being turned on 'just like that'.

the ironic part is, after the realization, i have seen that what i had been NOT knowing, was actually bare and plain in front of me all the time. it was so simple that it only required reflection upon the meaning of the simple concepts given to us - not something else. very simple :

first, the concept of ownership. it was so normal to me and logical. we own things, after all. but, if i look back at Ra material, it was directly told to us that 1d was a complete set of density with all the mind/body/spirits of the entities which would manifest as 'people' (as we know it or in different form) in 3d billions of years later, already present. we were told that entire life follows a process of going from 1d, to 8d. i knew that, i said yeah, ok, alright, it goes like this then, but i didnt think about simple practical conclusions of this.

if, all life goes from 1d to 8d, than it means that, a number of billion years ago, i was a rock, water, or something somewhere. i was. really. a rock. then, i had lived as plants or small animals, in the same place. i was, an animal. then, i had entered 3d somewhere. i was new at 3d, and was animal like yet then. then, i am what i am today.

and, i was owning things. how could i OWN something, even if an object, knowing that that object, is to become someone like me in future ? actually, leave that aside, how could i proceed to own something, knowing that even places can pass into 3d existence as entities, with enough investment, as told to us by Ra ?

moreover, since everything is intelligent infinity, how i could claim sovereginship on another part of intelligent infinity, while being a part of that intelligent infinity ?

moreover, how could i even not see that, the concept of OWNing something, is a reflection of orange ray blockage ? in the case of materials, orange ray blockage over red ray phenomenon ? (material posessions, survival)

they were there. they were there for around .... 1995 - 2009 or so, approx 14 years for me. however, i didnt sit down ant reflect on those properly. or , maybe i reflected and realized, but subconsciously. (since all my life choices seem to indicate that).

i knew Ra told our society was negative, but i didnt think why. i thought 'because people are selfish'. then again Ra also said that, most of the good people on the planet were horrified due to whats going on, and also the planet was predominantly positive.

it didnt occur to me at all that, there would be a contradiction in this - how can the planet be negative in selfishness, whereas the planet was predominantly positive, and there were even good people who were horrified to speak up due to events. which events at all in the first place ? i thought wars etc. it didnt occur to me that, these entities could be horrified about whats going on in the society around them.

i didnt consciously think that, if positive is giving without expecting anything, then giving something by putting the cost of that thing and a extra profit in return, could be something negative. i was all fed with education that told me that was something good, something 'innovative' and 'fair'. i always thought that these could work with positivity. but, i always had issues with taking money from people, even at work.

so, now i think that, it all comes down to realization of the true meaning of basic, simple concepts. and it is very simple. and, it all rests on our own conscious, we are responsible.

even realizing why the current system we are in is negative, and what it should be is a huge step. firstly, it liberates us, inside, in our inner planes and time/space existence. where that would lead, heaven knows. but, it is a realization that must be done, and it is something anyone can do themselves, in the still of the night at their home, while doing anything.

so i very much think that, before going out to farm, we should first realize this.

I thought the solutions offered were common sense based and not to far-out as to be unreachable.

the curious part is that, these kind of societies, communities existed in prehistoric times, in early societies (even agrarian), until warmongering raging hordes came with weapons to subdue them. it is not something that was not done. even the technology bit was there, even if in primitive form.

[Focus123]

the curious part is that, these kind of societies, communities existed in prehistoric times, in early societies (even agrarian), until warmongering raging hordes came with weapons to subdue them. it is not something that was not done. even the technology bit was there, even if in primitive form.

Yes, the problem this time is that we have the capacity to destroy ourselves either by nuclear weapons or by totally trashing the environment. Doesn't look good.

[turtledude23]

Oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, I've been waiting a long time to see something like this, I'm only half way through it at the time of posting but its blowing my mind, I knew most of the things its saying but I always heard them in isolated instances, but to hear an endless string of paradigm shattering truths that can save humanity from its self made systems of self destruction is just wow.

[native]

that is totally discounting the fact that, polarization needs to happen spiritually. when a negative entity enslaves others through usage of technology, without having to exert self-oriented willpower and intent, it does not cause them to polarize. its more like running a machine.

I'm not so sure, especially with a visual apparatus like television. If someone on tv is spreading manipulative thoughts, or programming you to spend money on things you can't afford, visually seeing them you must be making some sort of connection on another plane. Let's say a politician gets on tv and says "You can no longer do this or that." An entity may feel controlled by that politician. This has to cause further polarization in the politician.

We know that the negative path is two fold: to enslave others, and to separate itself from others as much as possible. We also know that as a whole they want a negative harvest. While consumerism or technology may not directly cause enslavement in many cases, these provide fertile ground for it. It is the act of becoming engulfed in these trappings that people disconnect themselves from others because they're focused on the self. Worrying about their own success and achievements while disregarding those around them is not enslavement, but self-serving.

So we can see that a self-serving individual who falls for negative marketing/technology traps doesn't need to be enslaved spiritually to help polarize the planet negatively. If they create separation without enslavement, this is beneficial regardless. Someone wishing to achieve higher success, begin distorting their beliefs and do the will of others thus becoming enslaved. So consumerism can be seen as a root cause. Or they enslave others for their own personal will.

Possibly because there is so much individualization they aren't able to exert the necessary control to move the polarization in their direction. The hierarchy and system on this planet is too fragmented..there are so many people everywhere doing their own thing, and this could be why their influence isn't as effective. It's also why many devious agendas are masked as being for the benefit of the whole, when in reality it is to consolidate power. The more you herd into one place the easier it is to exert control in one fell swoop.

An entity not enslaved but rather engulfed in their own life by way of the various distractions, becomes oblivious to the motives and operations in place to create or enhance enslavement. This seems to be their main adaptation of using various thought control schemes for their advantage.

So yes, I can agree that this programming has attributes and drawbacks for them.

i dont want to work for myself. i want to work with others.

I simply meant being able to rely on yourself. I want to work with others too.

lets face it - not only a lot of entities here (4d incarnates, wanderers, late 3d entities) have much higher activity in mind, spirit in order to be able to go back to a primeal life style, and live like that for prolonged periods of time. neither we should have to.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say. I'm advocating living in harmony with nature too, by creating communities where everything is shared. I'm saying it's best to become self-reliant, and form smaller communities now while working on changing the larger picture. If it's in reference to hunting, I'm working on a mostly vegetarian diet.

i didnt consciously think that, if positive is giving without expecting anything, then giving something by putting the cost of that thing and a extra profit in return, could be something negative. i was all fed with education that told me that was something good, something 'innovative' and 'fair'. i always thought that these could work with positivity. but, i always had issues with taking money from people, even at work.

It is the hardest aspect of forming a larger community. People are used to being compensated congruently for their work. Moreover, there will be those that neglect to contribute to the system. Those that have specific skills that require a great deal of the self may feel that they have a greater burden put on them. They will see it as being unequal. In the advanced stages all would contribute equally, or there will be those that desire to give more.

[Fallen Destiny]

It is the hardest aspect of forming a larger community. People are used to being compensated congruently for their work. Moreover, there will be those that neglect to contribute to the system. Those that have specific skills that require a great deal of the self may feel that they have a greater burden put on them. They will see it as being unequal. In the advanced stages all would contribute equally, or there will be those that desire to give more.

Punish them.

[native]

......

[xlsander]

great movie - thought provoking and for the very most part rang very true to me - what i fea ris what about if the technology and the machine become intelligent to rise against humans as seen in matrix or terminator?

[unity100]

great movie - thought provoking and for the very most part rang very true to me - what i fea ris what about if the technology and the machine become intelligent to rise against humans as seen in matrix or terminator?

for a machine to be intelligent it would need to reach at least 2nd density consciousness. but the control of a 2d consciousness acting on a computer network would be low, because it is not a body that was made to react to control of the spirit. unless the machine is made as such, allowing channeling of spirit through a tool which the mind will be able to use, there shouldnt be such a possibility.

the spiritual facets of this, however are much longer than simply this, a long topic in itself - there are a lot of considerations ranging from how 2d entities and up incarnate into bodies to interaction and cooperation in between positive 4d entities and 2d entities. in a positive 4d environment, such an 'uprising' would be needless.

[Izzy]

Thanks all who posted on this topic. I now will go watch the movie and put this into perspective of whats been said here.I urge us all to remember all things come from the Creator so no one is right or wrong. We must all learn/teach each other for to be informed, it is the only right path to truth. And that as this country was put together by a congress of different people of different oppions and minds that they came together. As we should. For I cant see a way forward anyother way.

[BlatzAdict]

"Similarly, the idea of 'praying' to a god for a particular request, has also statistically proven to have little effect on an outcome, not to mention the evidence to support a personified creator doesn't exist in any scientific way...rather it is often derived from ancient historical literary speculation and tradition."

when the practice of 'raindance' is described the way it is, I can't help but feel that the idea of focused collective intention being portrayed as ridiculous superstitious belief

I'd like to know what others think of that.

you bring up an interesting point I just myself have come across. Which is funny I was just talking about something similar in the thread about The Holy Mountain where some people call it luciferian. I actually am finding Zeitgeist itself to be luciferian or satanic in nature.

The movie itself represents light, too much light, without love. This is prevalent not in just their downplaying of Faith systems, but that fits into the Luciferian Agenda that there is no greater power than yourself and to promote atheism.

Of course I could just be shooting in the dark, but I find the tactics in this movie to be convincing as it holds the truth but there is still a veil of unknowing. For example in the first Zeitgeist movie they talk about all the shared symbols of all the religions. They go to infer that it is all one big system of control. It's a reverse psychology tactic that almost enforces the atheist view using the truth, but to their advantage.

In my own studies and my own research I've found that Service to others is signified by the Omega symbol, while service to self is signified by the Alpha symbol..

Alpha can also be looked at as oroboros.. while omega can be looked at as the caduceus..
the snake that bites itself, is a frequent characteristic of the dynamic of an abuser/victim role. Oh my boss sucks, oh my job sucks, this sucks, that sucks, why is this person mean to me, why is the world so difficult. In the eyes of an abuser, the world is against him.. but mostly it is because his or her perception of the world is being against him. Hence... he is kicking himself in the ass.. or the snake that bites it's own tail.

Additionally you can see the opposite in the caduceus.. two snakes swirling, can mean many different things. visually it looks like DNA, but is there a hidden and deeper meaning to two snakes dancing? IT portrays two people dancing together. working together. cooperating. Neither snake is biting itself on the tail but instead moving forward through life, the spiral denotes the cyclic nature of life, while the two snakes themselves... still moving forward with regards to a cyclic nature. they move forward together, and do not seek to bite each other or themselves.

This is why the icon is used in the medical industry. because it is cooperating and helping.

so why did i bring this up?
the movie talks constantly about symbols but they don't tell u what they MEAN... they only beat around the bush and tell u what the problem is but never tell you WHY it is the problem.. It is a veiled abuser tactic.. telling u the truth, but not the whole truth.

In order to follow the path of illumination, one must be truly illuminated and not just see one side of where the light shines, but all sides. It's only when you obstruct one side... are you following the path of the dark.

so much in the first zeitgeist movie it's the symbolism for the owl... or the father and mother principle... the father principle is light. the mother principle is love. the father is divisive, the mother is all encompassing.

Fear vs love... well fear is only one way to interpret the light, the light can also be intelligence, or knowledge...
easily recognized by the devil archetype or Lucifer himself... THE LIGHT bringer... he who brought light without wisdom.. without love.

and what do we now know what light means? it means knowledge. now how do we define knowledge? knowledge is the need to label, categorize, compartmentalize, order..

Love... is the need to bring together, it is the combining force.


Light is the visible, the material. You can touch taste and feel light but you cannot have emotions with light. You know it's there because you see it there.. as it is the first distortion of love.

Love is the invisible, and not material. You cannot touch taste and feel love with regards to the body, but you can emotionally feel love... You don't know it's there, as it's invisible. You need to have faith that it is there... and what do we know love to be? the one infinite creator.

---

also alpha can be seen as a closed system... while omega is an open system... doesn't matter where you start in the alpha system, you end up back at where you were...

doesn't matter where you start in an Omega system.. you always end up someplace else.

One is a system of control... the other is a system of freedom.
While neither total control, or total freedom is desired by society itself.
Why I say total freedom, lawlessness.. Someone can just take a shotgun and blow your face off for no reason and not be punished for it.
While I say total law.... someone is watched and monitored their whole lives... having to get permission to do anything.

Neither is good, neither is positive.. positive is a balance between the two energies. Negative is an imbalance between the two energies which usually results in one or the other.