Drugs - Good or bad?

[Xplosiw]

I've been thinking alot about this subject lately. I also watched Bill Hicks talking about the subject, and he thought, that (natural) drugs are created to speed up our evolution and such.

What do you think yourself? What is the reason drugs (such as marihuana or "magic mushrooms") exists? Do you think they can be harmful to human beings or soul?

[Focus123]

Personally ,I do not do drugs ,have not for the last 20 years. But for 15 years I did them almost daily.About 5 years after I quit I had an encounter with my guides that ended in an experience that I could not describe. But let me say this-If I added all the highs, from all the drugs, for all the years that I did them into one moment they would have paled in comparison. However, everyone has there own path so here is a book that I think best explains the potential for drugs. Ever heard of DMT?

http://organiclab.narod.ru/books/DMT-The...lecule.pdf

[turtledude23]

Theres a topic called "The spiritual use of entheogens" somewhere which you might want to read.

I think most things aren't inherently good or bad, it just depends how you use them. Most people use drugs to have fun, distract themselves from the pain of reality, and so forth, which I guess is okay if its part of their path of eventual awakening. Certain drugs can be used for spiritual purposes and can be categorized as entheogens which include: cannabis, LSD, DMT, psilocybin mushrooms, peyote or sand pedro cactus (mescaline), ayahuasca, iboga root, possibly MDMA (the pure form of Ecstacy), salvia divinorium, and morning glory seeds/Hawaiian baby woodrose seeds (LSA) (these last 3 options are legal and can be bought in certain stores).

I think natural drugs exist to be used either by people on a path of self discovery like us, by shamans who use it to access time/space to heal people, or to be used by people as a distraction. Some of the fore-mentioned drugs can be harmful to the body and possibly the mind in the case of a bad trip on a hallucinogen, but not the soul. If you prepare yourself well then the risk will be minimal and the potential spritiual growth is great.

I use cannabis about once a month, it helps me reach a deeper state of meditation than I normally can, its come to the point where even if I use it recreationally with friends I still get spiritually beneficial effects. If you are considering using entheogens I would recommend starting with cannabis and using it to explore your mind or body, once you're comfortable with using it you could try salvia which only makes you hallucinate for about 10 minutes. If you handled cannabis and salvia well and you still want that push in the right direction then you could try a small dose of mushrooms or Hawaiian baby woodrose seeds. Beyond that I can't give any advice, I haven't tried LSD out of fear of a bad trip, but it all depends on your mindset, physical environment, and who is with you or if you're alone. I've actually never hallucinated when using hallucinogens, instead I had a type of forced psychoanalysis/introspection, which was a little scary but very humbling, and made me feel alot more sensitive to the needs of others and a desire to connect to people - so it definitely helped me polarize more to STO.

Just remember to take a break from them after using any entheogen, I'd say at least a week, they can give you push up and some inspiration and visions but they're not a replacement for meditation, introspection, deep thought, and self discipline. They are tools that can be used.

Moderator note: Link to referenced thread added.

[Protonexus]

Certain substances can be used to feel a particular "high", clarity, bliss, or relaxation. Drugs are unnecessary however in that all these feelings are readily available through awareness and conscious meditation, drugs only inhibit function at this point. Using no outside substance, pure ecstasy is realized.

[Monica]

I would suggest caution with Salvia. I have never tried it, but have read of people's experiences that strongly suggested it could be very dangerous, spiritually. You will find some of those stories in the above referenced thread, along with a great deal of useful info.

[JoshC]

As for good or bad, I'll quote Neale Donald Walsch: "A thing is only right or wrong because you say it is. A thing is not right or wrong intrinsically." - Substitute in "good" and "bad."

As for the usefulness of drugs, I'd say they can be of help if you choose for them to be. Personally, I don't take drugs any more because I used them as an escape from the pain of my reality and as a crutch for fun, like turtledude said. I did have quite a few good spiritual experiences on them though

As for salvia, I'd also advise a bit of caution. Make sure to have optimal set and setting and a good friend, relative, mate, etc near you to spot you and possibly guide you on the trip (if you even stay in this reality for it!). Mushrooms are pretty handle-able, I've even found LSD isn't too hard to navigate, though for all drugs the advice I said earlier applies. Set, setting, and good friends!

[Monica]

As for salvia, I'd also advise a bit of caution. Make sure to have optimal set and setting and a good friend, relative, mate, etc near you to spot you and possibly guide you on the trip (if you even stay in this reality for it!). Mushrooms are pretty handle-able, I've even found LSD isn't too hard to navigate, though for all drugs the advice I said earlier applies. Set, setting, and good friends!

As I stated in the other thread, I've experienced LSD and mushrooms. No matter how intense the trip was, I still knew I was me. From what I understand about Salvia, it is a disassociative drug, meaning that the person loses sense of his/her own identity. I've read stories of people who found themselves stranded in a black void, with no way to return, and sometimes surrounded by entities.

This sure sounds to me like a great way for STS entities to derail an STO entity, and maybe even disconnect them from this lifetime.

Apparently, Salvia is very popular among teens, and legal. The impression is that it's relatively safe, since it only lasts 10 minutes or so.

But from a metaphysical/spiritual perspective, it sounds to me like the most dangerous drug I've ever heard of.

Linear time is irrelevant in such a state.

Again, I have no experience with it, but what I read I found very scary.

[JoshC]

As I stated in the other thread, I've experienced LSD and mushrooms. No matter how intense the trip was, I still knew I was me. From what I understand about Salvia, it is a disassociative drug, meaning that the person loses sense of his/her own identity. I've read stories of people who found themselves stranded in a black void, with no way to return, and sometimes surrounded by entities.

Indeed, one of my friends turned into a doorknob

This sure sounds to me like a great way for STS entities to derail an STO entity, and maybe even disconnect them from this lifetime.

Just a simple difference of opinion here, I doubt this would happen - it seems very unlikely to me, as in an extreme outlier.

Linear time is irrelevant in such a state.

Again, I have no experience with it, but what I read I found very scary.

Quite right, time is extremely distorted in this state. From the time I smoked it to the time I was sober enough to check the time, I could have sworn hours went by during one of my bad trips on salvia.

As for the scariness of it, I wonder if you have a case of the attracting-things-to-confirm-your-beliefs-ies and/or have seen the polar opposite of what scary stories you've read?

[Ashim]

Very powerful shamanic tools should not be 'taken' lightly, in my opinion.

I found it most useful to read trip reports before making any important descisions.

I discovered, for me personally that it is all a matter of intent.

Syd Barrett, god bless his soul, reminds me of what can happen when things get out of hand.
I guess John Frusciante could sing a similar song.

You don't need drugs to trip to this one......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8k5WQnfCjmk

The funniest song in the world (warning).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smVYvnnqewA

Love & Light

[Monica]

Indeed, one of my friends turned into a doorknob

HAHA!

Just a simple difference of opinion here, I doubt this would happen - it seems very unlikely to me, as in an extreme outlier.

I defer to your experience.

Apparently, different people have different experiences with it, as with LSD. No doubt your experiences are valid. But so are the ones I read about, since they really did happen. Apparently, Salvia CAN be dangerous for SOME people.

Quite right, time is extremely distorted in this state. From the time I smoked it to the time I was sober enough to check the time, I could have sworn hours went by during one of my bad trips on salvia.

When I had a bad acid trip, it lasted 16 hours, but felt like weeks. Time is distorted. I just meant that a lot can happen during the experience, and the short duration of actual linear time (10 minutes in the case of Salvia) isn't necessarily a safeguard.

As for the scariness of it, I wonder if you have a case of the attracting-things-to-confirm-your-beliefs-ies and/or have seen the polar opposite of what scary stories you've read?

Heh, no more than anyone else I suppose. I've done my share of hallucinagens, so it's not like I had fears going into those experiences. As described on the above-mentioned thread, I had both ecstatic as well as terrifying experiences with LSD. This was 30 years ago, so I'm hardly an expert on the newer drugs (or newly popular ones like Salvia). I have no reason to have undue fears about them. I was just sharing what I had read about Salvia, since I was startled at the way the experiences were described. I've never heard of that happening with LSD, so it seemed to be in a different league.

I would advise caution with any hallucinogen. They are not party drugs and shouldn't be taken lightly, imo. It took me a whole year to recover from a bad acid trip. Yet, I don't regret the good trips. It's a double-edged sword and caution is reasonable. I don't think an attitude of throwing caution to the winds is advisable when ingesting strong chemicals.

I was 18-21 when I did hallucinagens. I wouldn't do them now, knowing what I know, with the Harvest approaching. But neither would I judge someone who is attracted to them. I would simply advise caution and respect to these powerful potential allies.

[Eddie]

I would suggest caution with Salvia. I have never tried it, but have read of people's experiences that strongly suggested it could be very dangerous, spiritually. You will find some of those stories in the above referenced thread, along with a great deal of useful info.

My own experience is quite the opposite. Used properly, Salvia divinorum can unlock worlds of unspeakable beauty.

[Monica]

My own experience is quite the opposite. Used properly, Salvia divinorum can unlock worlds of unspeakable beauty.

That's good to know. Similar to LSD, peyote, etc. in that respect.

I guess what concerned me about Salvia was its disassociative properties. Did you find yourself separated from the rest of the UniVerse, or were you still you? Or did you feel Oneness? I am curious.

[Eddie]

My own experience is quite the opposite. Used properly, Salvia divinorum can unlock worlds of unspeakable beauty.

That's good to know. Similar to LSD, peyote, etc. in that respect.

I guess what concerned me about Salvia was its disassociative properties. Did you find yourself separated from the rest of the UniVerse, or were you still you? Or did you feel Oneness? I am curious.

I found myself joined to a portion of Intelligent Infinity that was previously obscure to me. It was one of the most profound experiences of my life....a life spent exploring the inner universe.

[Monica]

I found myself joined to a portion of Intelligent Infinity that was previously obscure to me. It was one of the most profound experiences of my life....a life spent exploring the inner universe.

Cool!

[Nabil Naser]

I do not think that pot is harmful in nature, or any drug for that matter.

There is value to everything. Drugs heal people, when their bodies become ill.
We are born within nature, and we live within nature, even as we try to ignore nature.

Nature has a lot to teach.
All we have to do is listen.

I've been thinking alot about this subject lately. I also watched Bill Hicks talking about the subject, and he thought, that (natural) drugs are created to speed up our evolution and such.

What do you think yourself? What is the reason drugs (such as marihuana or "magic mushrooms") exists? Do you think they can be harmful to human beings or soul?

[Ashim]

People will always get what they need when they take drugs.
Good trip, enlightening, oneness with Creation - you deserve/requested the experience.
Bad trip, scary monsters, skip dividing darkness, gloom - you deserve/requested the experience.

I truly believe that our Mother gives us all the tools that we require. Drugs are just that, tools.
If you see 'recreation' in the drug then the drug will eventually teach you a lesson.
This happened to me with mushrooms. I was 18 or so. It was trip nr.5 or so. I remember the choices I made that day as if it were the present moment.

Are natural drugs better? No, I don't believe so myself. They are certainly 'enspirited' whereas the artificials are more like empty spaces but this is also a 2 sided coin.

We discuss this and many other subjects in the family. I enjoy a toke from time to time and I'm really happy that my loved ones tolerate it, but would never encourage the use of drugs, rather educate and provide a 'taboo free' zone.

To stimulate the CB1 and CB2 receptors has been my main tool to entering the medative state.
This however was just my own personal way. There are many roads that lead to Rome.

Love & Light

[Focus123]

To stimulate the CB1 and CB2 receptors has been my main tool to entering the medative state.

Could you expand on this?

[Ashim]

To stimulate the CB1 and CB2 receptors has been my main tool to entering the medative state.

Could you expand on this?

Sure. By smoking a little weed I found it possible to focus on the infinite moment. This I found difficult just by trying to meditate as the mind was 'too busy'. My work and lifestyle was also not really providing the right sort of background for this type of inner work - I used to teach 10-14 hours a day, whilst running a business, raising a family etc.
Now I am more secluded, have much more time for reflection and do not require a substance to enter the trance state.

Many of the members of my social circle used cannabis at some stage during growing up in the UK. Really we didn't drink alcohol in any large amount (that was more our parents thing), it was more a music and dope culture during my late teens / early twens.

But really does it matter how you do it?

Some people may achieve these results by chanting, singing, dancing or even banging their heads against a wall but no one single method will 'win a prize'.

Isolation tanks are probably good.
Some people use a crystal or crystal grid to aid in meditation.
Geometry works for some - symbols.

Hope that helped.

Love & Light

[Focus123]

Thanks

[turtledude23]

How would you use a crystal to aid in meditation? What's a crystal grid?

[Richard]

Peyote is highly overrated. After…you finish puking harder than you ever believed possible and lying there feeling like someone scraped your throat and insides with a garden rake, you catch a pretty decent buzz. But its like only a small payback for how frickin rotten you feel. Something to do with up nine different alkaloid poisons inherent in the buttons, I suspect

Not that we ever stopped trying to make it more palatable. You can’t believe how bitter that stuff is. Soaking fresh slices in a thisck solution of Tang (never again…the fresh stuff, omg, never been that sick since)….smearing peanut butter on dried buttons seemed to be the best route. You had to nibble on it a little at a time cause it was so bitter. Go throw up….then enjoy the show. Was at a music festival in the Chihuahuan desert many moons ago.

I’ve often wondered if the native american ceremonial use kept a bucket nearby.

Don't miss those days at all.

Richard

[Edinburgh]

From what I've understood from research is that Ayahuasca offers the best chance of a positive spiritual learning experience from a drug.

In LOO, LSD is used and causes bad side effects, and marijuana is mentioned in book 5 as being unhelpful in the short term, by Ra. Synapse issues are quoted. Weed also effects your dream life significantly, which Ra states is important to growth.

Shamans have used Ayahuasca in past, but now modern Shamans use it to bring more spiritual connectedness in our busy lives. It's legal too.

[3DMonkey]

Drugs are bad. Look at Charlie Sheen. Of course, I've never loved him more.

[Edinburgh]

Drugs are bad. Look at Charlie Sheen. Of course, I've never loved him more.

Yes forgiveness and love are the most important parts of Ra's teachings.

Maybe Charlie Sheen should do some ayahuasca and get grounded, and get off that coke he does every morning

[litllady]

I think drugs can open doorways...but its best to try then to seek beyond the doorway with a clear head.

[AlexRussian2705]

i have tried salvia and had an extremely intense experience. First of all after inhaling i lost the feeling of the body,i could not move hands,legs even open up my eyes,the body stopped working. Next i went almost like inside myself,but it felt like it was everything that was happening was still happening infront of my eyes. First it was a cartoonish world,where there was a weird character riding rollerskates,if anyone ever seen Gorrillaz music videos,it was almost exactly like that. After that it was as if i was alone in the darkness,i tried to scream but couldn't,this moment actually felt like it lasted eternity,i have never been so scared in my life,being alone in a dark place and nothing else except you,after that everything started to spin,like a barrell in the revolver and just like in the revolver the part where you put the bullets,there was a different life scenario,and as it was spining i was falling from one version into another,i have seen myself being a doctor,being an electrician,and others i don't clearly remember,but at that point i clearly remember thinking that if the spinning won't stop from the point of where i came into this,then i might lose my mind in this new reality that i don't know nothing about,and as the spining began to slow down,i felt that life was just like a book,changing pages from one story to the next,when i came back to my reality i still didn't believe i was back,everyone seemed weird looking,they had distortions of eyes(verybig) and bodies(long and skinny) but as my mind settled it all came into the same vision of the world i am so used to. I actually told one of my friends that a part of me died in there,or got left,where he replied:"Lets hope its the bad part that got left". All day after that i was as happy as when i was around 8 years old,because i enjoyed the little things like hearing and touching things and actually being sure what it would feel like,because when you lose that sense of being sure where u are and what is going on,it is a very intense feeling,almost like losing your mind.

[Edinburgh]

I think drugs can open doorways...but its best to try then to seek beyond the doorway with a clear head.

Yes, you are right. And it's important to remember we are close to the harvest now. So, accelerating any kind of understanding would be helpful. Seek beyond the door way with a clear head. And don't open the wrong doorway.

From what I've read and heard ... salvia is not the right door to open. People get scared and come back shaken. That's bloody scary.

Ayahusaca has been shown to offer real time/space experiences as per the pyramid use indicatated by Ra. There's a lot of good sound positive information on youtube about aya.

Don't do coke, salvia, MDMA and all that jazz. Listen to what the shamans have been saying for 50,000 years. You can have one ayahuasca experience and never do it again. It's medicine, not a 'drug'.

Get in touch with yourself ... your higher self.

2012 is coming up. 2011 winter solstice is soon.

Love and light to you all my friends.

[Oceania]

Moderator note: The conversation in this post between Sagittarius and Liet was taken from this post. The next eight posts to this thread have been split off from the thread linked to in the previous sentence.

I had another LSD trip last night. You can see the 1000 petal lotus in your vision. Like you know how you can see floaters in the eye. Imagine that but encompassing your whole vision and instead of being static the vortex in the middle is spinning with the petals all seemingly spinning the same but yet differently.

God I love LSD best creation by us ever. But seriously they should rename LSD to veil disruptor. Meditate on LSD and prepare to fly.

I've tried most substances, but never lsd... whats its energies?
Which energy centers does it enhance/turbocharge?
Which are weakened by it?

so pituitary is the same as the pineal? or what do you mean?

[Liet]

so pituitary is the same as the pineal? or what do you mean?

No, i'm not saying they are the same...
I'm saying the energy connections arent lineary in the chakra #1234567 sense...
There are three lineary paths upwards that skip past the others.
Like this:
1->4->7->10
2->5->8->11
3->6->9

[Oceania]

11 chakras?