Grandfather Paradox, and more

[KYDoug]

I hope this intro to my question is not too long and confusing (though I’m pretty sure it is both), but here goes. Forum searches did not yield the exact answers to my particular confusion.

Since true Reality is beyond our comprehension, let’s start with a “simpler” base of quantum mechanics. All possibilities are available to Reality, but we are in one present because of some mechanism - could be our consciousness, a Bohmian pilot wave, luck of the draw, whatever. All we know for sure (or maybe not!) is the present. The present is here and is a manifestation of a collective agreement between all. There are an infinite number of possible futures consistent with this present as well as an infinite number of pasts consistent with this present. We may not realize the latter, but what happened in, say, Japan yesterday to one individual at noon local time is unknown to us. I do not think the deterministic “butterfly effect” applies. Going even beyond that, the more distant past is truly unknown and multiple past histories could be compatible with our present. We seemingly remember only one historical path (albeit “fuzzily”) but it is possible that if we somehow changed from one past timeline to another but still maintaining this present, our memories would change with us.

So the question is, what is nonlinear time and, as a focusing mechanism, how does it relate to the grandfather paradox? That is, I read about our misunderstandings due to a linear time perspective. Now I get that in a limited way from the previous paragraph. However, that discussion was limited to a static present with perhaps different historical and future paths that still lead to that one present. True nonlinear time interactions would seem to lead to the grandfather paradox and perhaps free will violations in general. So does nonlinear time somehow apply to an understanding of how we got to where we are right now and where we go from here, or is it really a much bigger deal. Something like, could we actually jump from one possible present to another possible present, still obeying free will perhaps by allowing it only through mutual agreement (subconsciously?). But there’s that grandfather paradox again.

Finally, even though we are told that time is nonlinear, another sort of irreversible time does seem to march on since a Harvest is a one shot deal - no do overs. And spiritual evolution proceeds in stages - another manifestation of a higher linear time. Is it possible that the higher linear time itself is itself an illusion. Oh boy...

All this is beyond us I am sure, but can we glean snippets? Thanks.

[tadeus]

We seemingly remember only one historical path (albeit “fuzzily”) but it is possible that if we somehow changed from one past timeline to another but still maintaining this present, our memories would change with us.

What do you understand under a "past timeline" ?

We can only remember what has come to our awareness.

So the question is, what is nonlinear time and, as a focusing mechanism, how does it relate to the grandfather paradox?


Finally, even though we are told that time is nonlinear, another sort of irreversible time does seem to march on since a Harvest is a one shot deal - no do overs. And spiritual evolution proceeds in stages - another manifestation of a higher linear time. Is it possible that the higher linear time itself is itself an illusion. Oh boy...

All this is beyond us I am sure, but can we glean snippets? Thanks.

Time is specially 'available' beginning with the third density illusion.
In lower densities time is presumably not in the consciousness of the beings and beginning with the fourth density, it is possible to look behind the veil, seeing the illusion of time.

Time can be seen only as a sequence of growing experience of an individual being.
So why there should be a paradox?

Time can be nonlinear, because it is part of the individual illusion that is taking part in a bigger illusion.
When you want you can see it as a "higher linear time".
You will have the chance to glean the snippets in future densities.

[KYDoug]

I admit this is a complicated topic, we at 3D are at a disadvantage to even talk about it, and it makes questions imprecise. Let me give another example of what I was calling the grandfather paradox.

Let's say that, in nonlinear time, we can go back and forth along the multiple versions of "history" (both froward and backward) experiencing what we will in various fashions. The grandfather paradox questions what would happen if I went back in time and killed my grandfather. Would I disappear? Now an answer might be that we are only allowed to traverse historical (both forward and backward) that are consistent with this particular present. Therefore, no matter how much I tried, I could not kill my grandfather. Another answer might be that I actually could kill my grandfather but I am now in a different history, which leads to multiple realities.

Now it gets more complicated if, as I understand it, true Reality is a joint proposition agreed upon by all consciousness. Therefore, if a stranger went back and killed my grandfather, would I exist? The same two scenarios above still apply but the idea of multiple realities gets messier. It makes the idea of an agreed upon joint Reality much less clear.

This then brings me to the real question which did rely on an understanding of the grandfather paradox. If there are multiple Realities, then why are the good guys, bad guys, wanderers, etc, focusing on this one particular Reality and its evolution. It would seem that everything works out (or not) in some reality so what's the big deal. In fact, if all possibilities must exist, then, by definition, some of those possibilities must end with the bad guys winning. On the other hand, if there truly is only one joint consciousness Reality that is evolving, then the grandfather paradox eliminates many possibly active explorations of time histories.

Finally, there is the nagging question of the whole idea of "progressing" from one dimension to another which is inexorably tied to some concept of time, albeit most likely much more complicated. Does that explain where I'm coming from better?

[KYDoug]

I just thought of another option, which is a big variation on a theme of an idea in my first post. There I said that we could switch timelines by tweaks to the past if they were consistent with the current present. In that case, the tweaks might be so minor that the new timeline is indistinguishable from the current one. Or maybe even a tweak was so great that it changed my actual past but, now that I am on a different timeline with a different past, I would not even know it. Well, taking the concept that our consciousness are somewhat immortal, take this scenario one giant step further. The past could be changed greatly (yes, bad guys did kill my grandfather) but now there is a new timeline where my consciousness no longer resides in KYDoug but in, say, KYJoe. Again, in our limited 3D existence, I (whoever that is) might not even know that I am KYJoe since the new timeline is one where that life did actually exist. So, my life essence remains intact, but my interpretation of who I am in this incarnation is different. I still react in the new present (sort of) how I would in my previous past since it is all somewhat reminiscent of reincarnation. That is, who you are is a product of many life experiences. Hope that makes sense, since it barely does to me.

[tadeus]

Let's say that, in nonlinear time, we can go back and forth along the multiple versions of "history" (both froward and backward) experiencing what we will in various fashions.

I would say then we need no 'real' experience in a specific 'real time'.

[KYDoug]

I'm pretty sure I do not understand what you just said. Perhaps it was too brief.

On the other hand, remember that I did say the Grandfather Paradox was really only the set up for the real questions. Had to sort of understand it before the rest. There are then two major questions that rest on our concept of linear time.

(1) If everyone can go anywhere in time and relive anything differently, then there is no one jointly constructed Reality. So why would any higher dimensional entity care about this particular reality that I (maybe alone) am experiencing. There are infinite others. Actually by definition, all possibilities exist - some "good" and some "bad" - and not only do they exist but they HAVE to exist. Why "battle" over this particular one?

(2) However one might define linear and nonlinear, there are definite aspects of what seem like linear progression in the higher dimensions. It is not wildly nonlinear. For example, the very nature of sequential higher dimensions is a hallmark of linearity. The irreversibility of the upcoming transition - can't just say whoops and replay it. In fact, the whole idea of progressive through STS or STO is steeped in linearity.

Now, I still don't understand the Grandfather Paradox, so I bet I will have no better time understanding these real questions!

[zedro]

We are not in an "anything goes" reality, there are nodal points (deterministic realities which intersect choices) which need to be maintained to have a cohesive universe. Think of it like a video game, there are a lot of transient actions which can take place, but the overall plot needs to make sense to keep the illusion from falling apart. So some actions simply cannot happen, as the option will not even present itself. This is a system bound by rulesets, which is why some who witness the "bugs" in the program get removed from the game in some form.

[unity100]

If you go back in time and kill your grandfather, you are in a timeline in which you went back and killed your grandfather and you will not be born in future in this timeline. In this timeline you exist as the guy who came from a timeline in which his grandfather is alive and then killed his grandfather.

[J.W.]

I hope this intro to my question is not too long and confusing (though I’m pretty sure it is both), but here goes. Forum searches did not yield the exact answers to my particular confusion.

Since true Reality is beyond our comprehension, let’s start with a “simpler” base of quantum mechanics. All possibilities are available to Reality, but we are in one present because of some mechanism - could be our consciousness, a Bohmian pilot wave, luck of the draw, whatever. All we know for sure (or maybe not!) is the present. The present is here and is a manifestation of a collective agreement between all. There are an infinite number of possible futures consistent with this present as well as an infinite number of pasts consistent with this present. We may not realize the latter, but what happened in, say, Japan yesterday to one individual at noon local time is unknown to us. I do not think the deterministic “butterfly effect” applies. Going even beyond that, the more distant past is truly unknown and multiple past histories could be compatible with our present. We seemingly remember only one historical path (albeit “fuzzily”) but it is possible that if we somehow changed from one past timeline to another but still maintaining this present, our memories would change with us.

So the question is, what is nonlinear time and, as a focusing mechanism, how does it relate to the grandfather paradox? That is, I read about our misunderstandings due to a linear time perspective. Now I get that in a limited way from the previous paragraph. However, that discussion was limited to a static present with perhaps different historical and future paths that still lead to that one present. True nonlinear time interactions would seem to lead to the grandfather paradox and perhaps free will violations in general. So does nonlinear time somehow apply to an understanding of how we got to where we are right now and where we go from here, or is it really a much bigger deal. Something like, could we actually jump from one possible present to another possible present, still obeying free will perhaps by allowing it only through mutual agreement (subconsciously?). But there’s that grandfather paradox again.

Finally, even though we are told that time is nonlinear, another sort of irreversible time does seem to march on since a Harvest is a one shot deal - no do overs. And spiritual evolution proceeds in stages - another manifestation of a higher linear time. Is it possible that the higher linear time itself is itself an illusion. Oh boy...

All this is beyond us I am sure, but can we glean snippets? Thanks.

I know this is an old thread, but it is worth touch upon.

Imagine you are in a closed room with 7 others, without a clock, without counting or any indicator for you to detect time. 

Each of you will have different senses of time, thought, and /perception. 

Here is the cherry on top, one of you is a pro at meditation, and felt "peace" as everyone start becoming more agitated from boredom. 

Would you say that all 7 participants' consciousness exists in a linear time? 

In 3rd D, we tend to misunderstand time as a product of our environment. 

It is a manifestation, a construct, some may even say that it exist to motivate you to "move." 

"I am late! I am late! I am late! No time to say hello, goodbye! I am late! I am late! I am late" 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDO5ea8M...=rayjaxter

[Quincunx]

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[J.W.]

@ Quincunx

lol, seems like you chased the rabbit..

You see, the first part of time-construct was your "imagination." When you "imagine," you started time... your time..

Take the word "time" out of existence (you can't btw,) and it will answer the OP's question about the paradox. It is complex, yet simple.

The creator is mental, from thought, comes the "all." When one truly "know" this, there are no paradox, you simply just had a "thought."

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We are the Rabbit, We create our own fears, laws, structure, and rules, we put ourselves on the clock.
"Ooooohhhh I got to graduate! ooooooohhh I got to be positive/negative, oOoooOooOooh I got to serve! I got to! I got to!"
"If I don't, I go to another 3D! ohh noooo! If I don't, I become Orion's B****, oooohh noooo!"

Even those who "actively" sits back and stargaze, are doing their best to ignore the reality/illusion, and go to a "happy place," but it is also another "action," another catalyst, another way to also seek refuge in Atom.

Why? are you that disgusted and sick of this world? are you that tired? was your life filled with that much pain that you cannot take it anymore?

Do you see the pendulum? When you are on one end of that movement, and you will always swing back the other way.

Like the white hare, We are always running, either TO somewhere, or away from SOMETHING. We can barely bring ourselves to recognize ourselves in the all, and we constantly looking for ways to be "more."

Can you imagine where none of this exist? But Wait! what is that? your neighbor, boss, spouse, or friend is waving at you? Oh welp, better smile and wave back and talk about the weather... But wait, you were onto somethin in your thought... Oh, right... that's what you were doing... Being "in" thought

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We are Alice, chasing the rabbit, going further and further due to curiosity, because we just want to know, what's next? what's next?!
Oh wow, what a wonderful world?! the magic! the beauty! the creativity! everything is soo amazing! .... then suddenly, "OFF WITH HER HEAD!"

Now you are running away from your curiosity, running away from the things you seek. (We seek and we seek, we call, and we call, and we found the Law of One, or it found us)
Egyptian, Aliens, Sasquatch, Healing, Magic, Tarot, Zodiac, Jesus, Hitler, Graduate, Harvest, 51%, 95%... the wonders! the wanders!

Now we love, and we fight on the forum, now we put rules, now we expand, now we change, now we observe, now we do this, we do that, on and on and on,

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Measure your mental with light, accept, and love, then your time will end, your paradox will end, your suffering will end, and you do not need to see each others again.

When you awaken, in a green field, you feel the light breeze as it swept across the rolling hills... You "thought" ... Is this 4th? 5th? 6th? ... Ah, right, this is what I was doing, hmm, what an interesting dream I had there..

[J.W.]

@ Quin,

btw, I am still interested on your take about the musical thread, please do share when you have time.

With light,

[Quincunx]

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[J.W.]

I once drove past a city and then realized I needed to gas up. I exited and went down a road to look for a gas station. I had never been in that area before. I always kept track of the sky so that I could remember which way the highway was. After traveling for a few minutes I decided to stop and figure out where the nearest gas station was on my phone. There was one near a pharmacy. The gas station building was closed and I needed to use the restroom so I entered the pharmacy to use it's facilities. I came outside and saw a man sitting on the ground making something with palm leaves. He wasn't ready to sell his stuff so I continued to my vehicle. My mother was stopped by a man asking for money. She told me about it when she got in. I decided to step out of my vehicle and give the man 5 dollars. He blessed me while I said good luck. Was I in the right place at the right time or was I guided to find this man who needed help?

This is not the first person I have helped under the most unusual circumstances. How is it that these small experiences here and there are always leading us to something we could have never predicted. Was it my choice at all to keep driving toward the next city or did something within attract me to someone in need.

@J.W. My curiosity has been answered. I see rabbits always thinking they need to be somewhere. If they only knew that it doesn't matter how long it takes, eventually someone will come along and say "here you go, this is what you need."

aw, Quin

with love,

[DoctorWho]

I believe that since time is an illusion, and everything that happened and will happened is happening, started and ended in a glimpse of what we perceive as a second, if you go back and kill your grandfather you will place yourself into an alternate reality where you were born from your grandfather, went back and killed him. You wouldn't disappear or not-be-born in my opinion.

I have even read some articles elsewhere that talk about one soul living in the same body but in different parallel universes, to gain more catalyst. But who knows....

Although, I also heard some research from David Wilcock that stated that there is quantum linkage to your era, depending on when you were born. If you were born in the 2000s and travel forth in time, you would arrive physically aged. If you traveled back in time, "dead". But he stated that ETs do have a technology to shift that quantum linkage and make you stay -wherever you go in time- with the same age your chemical vessel had at departure.