Illegal to grow your own food in u.s. now ?

[unity100]

http://www.strategypage.com/militaryforu...82601.aspx

[turtledude23]

One of my biggest interests in this incarnation, possibly even the biggest, is totalitarian governments and how democracies are always at risk of descending into dictatorship. What I've learned is this: we're all imperfect human beings, and even the most elaborately planned attempts at turning a democracy into dictatorship can fail quite easily. Just look at 9/11, that bus bombing in London, and the G20 civil liberty abuses in Toronto this summer. They did not go as planned, they did not get the reaction the puppeteers wanted, the people were not as dumb and passive as they hoped they would be.

People would get super, super pissed if this was actually passed and everyone regardless of political affiliation would fight this, and whoever made this bill and voted for it would never get elected again.

[seejay21]

I'm for one am not about to give up "side of road" vegetable stands so popular here in southern california. This bill is absolutely nutty. I feel violated.

[Monica]

A lesser version got passed:

http://www.anh-usa.org/senate-food-safety-update/

Still not good but not nearly as horrible as the original version. Small farmers are exempt.

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even the most elaborately planned attempts at turning a democracy into dictatorship can fail quite easily. Just look at 9/11

This shows that they can indeed pull off atrocious acts, but so far have failed to manifest all their plans.

When they stole the election the 2nd time, many people believed we'd be in a dictatorship by 2005. Then came the concentration camp thing - we were all gonna be rounded up! (Never mind the illogic of that, from a strictly logistical and practical standpoint.) Then they said they'd delay the election and we'd have GWB forever.

None of those things happened. We must remember that they don't have total control as they want us to believe. That's not to say they don't have a great deal of control. They do. But it's not all neatly wrapped up. And a lot of the more dire predictions have failed, thankfully, which leads me to surmise a lot of that was just fearmongering.

[turtledude23]

even the most elaborately planned attempts at turning a democracy into dictatorship can fail quite easily. Just look at 9/11

This shows that they can indeed pull off atrocious acts, but so far have failed to manifest all their plans.

When they stole the election the 2nd time, many people believed we'd be in a dictatorship by 2005. Then came the concentration camp thing - we were all gonna be rounded up! (Never mind the illogic of that, from a strictly logistical and practical standpoint.) Then they said they'd delay the election and we'd have GWB forever.

None of those things happened. We must remember that they don't have total control as they want us to believe. That's not to say they don't have a great deal of control. They do. But it's not all neatly wrapped up. And a lot of the more dire predictions have failed, thankfully, which leads me to surmise a lot of that was just fearmongering.

I agree. I used to be really into conspiracy theories around that time, I heard the things you just mentioned like GWB becoming dictator for life and videos of millions of plastic coffins and "concentration camps" and none of those came true. The videos promised a north american union by the 2010 winter olympics. There is alot of fear-mongering on the internet, most conspiracy theories are not true, I dont know how people keep going back to these weekly conspiracy talk show hosts, they should get that they're being lied to after a while. I'm sure theres lots of conspiracies going on, but they're not as bad as the fake ones in the videos, and they're probably harder to find out about, BUT they're also easier to prevent than these videos make them out to be.

[Crimson]

even the most elaborately planned attempts at turning a democracy into dictatorship can fail quite easily. Just look at 9/11

This shows that they can indeed pull off atrocious acts, but so far have failed to manifest all their plans.

t they don't have total control as they want us to believe. That's not to say they don't have a great deal of control. They do. But it's not all neatly wrapped up. And a lot of the more dire predictions have failed, thankfully, which leads me to surmise a lot of that was just fearmongering.

This has been a good show -the lessening of the impact (also the wikileaks storm) on how the planet in general is vibrating already towards 4d positive. Although the fear/doom news indicated negative origin, I feel these are becoming less powerful. There is little time (October-December 2011?) and then depending on how the shift happens, either gradually the negative influence will disappear or maybe suddenly. No time to do anything else really except avoid fear and doom.

[unity100]

if you dont fear death, then no doom prophecy affects you.

[Richard]

I’m not usually one for more govt regulation, but food standards in this country need some enforcement. Some of these facilities are operating on the very edge of legality when in come to cleanliness and sanitation. The problem is that there has never been enough money to hire enough people to inspect. Much less pursue charges against them. When multi-nats can retain bevies of high priced law firms to fight legal injunctions placed by a government staff of overworked legal aides?

Claims against big employers are pushed aside by the local community because they provide much needed jobs…and it just goes round and round. Same for the chemical industry. I think this Bill is attempting to address these ills…but like all govt regulation, implementation will have unplanned consequences.

But…unlike some here…I don’t think it’s a conspiracy by shadowy Illuminati & Elites in the govt to take away our rights.

Richard

[Monica]

But…unlike some here…I don’t think it’s a conspiracy by shadowy Illuminati & Elites in the govt to take away our rights.

We don't need to believe in any conspiracies to see what they're trying to do. Simple greed explains it. The medical industry is huge. The combined income of the top 10 drug companies in Fortune 500, is more than the combined income of the remaining 490 companies in Fortune 500.

Keep in mind that the remaining 490 companies include the oil companies, Microsoft, etc. And yet the top 10 drug companies' profits far, far outweigh all else.

Sickness (cancer etc.) is big business. 100,000 deaths occur each year as a result of pharmaceutical drugs used correctly. That's not even counting mistakes, illegal drugs, etc.

The #4 leading cause of death in the US is medical treatment.

These are some sobering statistics and have nothing to do with conspiracy theories.

So when proposed legislation has terminology giving more power to the drug companies and the corrupt medical industry, by giving them the power to impose more chemicals in the food, irradiation, genetically modified foods, fluoride in water, mandated vaccines, etc. while removing citizens' rights to grow their own chemical-free food, I say, if it smells like a skunk, there is a skunk nearby!

These aren't paranoid conspiracy fantasies. We already have genetically modified foods with no way to identify them. They have already made it illegal to sell raw almonds. Almonds! One of the most nutritious foods. (Edgar Cayce said that if a person eats several almonds a day, s/he'd never have to worry about cancer. Though I doubt that's still true.) And because of the corrupt medical system who makes billions from cancer treatment, we can't buy raw almonds.

Organic farmers can't sell certified raw milk, despite the fact that it's cleaner than pasteurized milk (pasteurized milk just zaps the critters so it doesn't have to be clean to start with, and that's not even taking into account all the hormones and antibiotics they inject into the cows).

There is more, much much more.

Letting the corrupt medical industry (FDA) have more control over our food supply is like letting the fox guard the henhouse.

Ask the question: Who benefits?

[Eddie]

Ask the question: Who benefits?

On November 16, George Soros (through his hedge fund) purchased 897,813 shares of Monsanto. That should be a clue.

No one will stop me from raising my own food. I have a large garden, fruit trees, and berries, and I'm in the process if putting in an additional garden space......considering a chicken coop as well. I expect to be producing most of my own food in 2-3 years.

By the way, S.510 was remanded back to congress yesterday because of a "blue slip" violation (the Senate added new taxes, and the Senate can't do that!) so this bill might be delayed until the next congress takes over; if that happens, the bill will die.

[Monica]

No one will stop me from raising my own food. I have a large garden, fruit trees, and berries, and I'm in the process if putting in an additional garden space......considering a chicken coop as well. I expect to be producing most of my own food in 2-3 years.

We just planted some fruit and nut trees also, and a garden. Chickens are easy, and eggs provide cruelty-free animal protein, for those who want animal protein in their diet.

If everyone did what you're doing, we would all have a surplus of food! It's a myth that the planet can't sustain the population. That could be easily done if more people grew their own food, and the polluting, inefficient meat industry were eliminated. A huge amount of food can be grown on even a small yard in the city, if we just eliminate the idea of a weed-free lawn.

Here is an amazing book about working with neighbors to turn the neighborhood into a largely self-sufficient community:

Food Not Lawns: How to Turn Your Yard into a Garden And Your Neighborhood into a Community by Heather Coburn Flores

Most people aren't open to the idea now, but they might be when/if the situation becomes more dire. A lot of good could come out of what appears, at first glance, to be a very negative situation.

By the way, S.510 was remanded back to congress yesterday because of a "blue slip" violation (the Senate added new taxes, and the Senate can't do that!) so this bill might be delayed until the next congress takes over; if that happens, the bill will die.

That's great news!

[Richard]

Carla wrote:

The #4 leading cause of death in the US is medical treatment.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Oh, c’mon Monica. What would the death rate be without modern medical treatment? Raw almonds, homegrown food and organic raw milk aren’t going to save anyone from trauma induced injuries, heart attack or stroke. Not to mention the myriad other diseases and afflictions that can strike. What does save you, in this world, is the application of high tech medicine. Even Carla benefited from what is, arguably, the finest medical system on the planet. Not without its serious problems, I’ll grant.

By all means, supplement your lifestyle with fresh foods and diet. Get plenty of exercise and meditate. But we all use (and/or will use) contemporary medicine at some point in our lives. And, barring a debilitating condition that we may have signed onto before we came back to this rock, most of us benefit from modern medicine and preventative procedures.

That said….there are myriad areas that need change. But the change needed is systemic. And far beyond, I believe, the political manipulations of any country. Its going to take a change in thought patterns species-wide. Not something that can be accomplished in the time any of us have left here. So, unless, something actually happens in 2012…its going to take several more lifetimes of work to bring this about.

I think most of us still have plenty of work left here…

Richard

[Monica]

Oh, c’mon Monica. What would the death rate be without modern medical treatment?

I never said anything about eliminating modern medical treatment. It definitely has its place: broken bones, gunshot wounds, car accidents, sudden heart attacks, severe burns, etc. I would not be alive today had it not been for interventive trauma care. I am very grateful that it is available for those emergency situations!

Raw almonds, homegrown food and organic raw milk aren’t going to save anyone from trauma induced injuries, heart attack or stroke.

Agreed! There seems to have been a misunderstanding here. I absolutely agree that modern medicine is appropriate for acute trauma conditions. That is where it shines!

However, it is not only woefully inadequate, but actually destructive, for many, if not most, cases of chronic illnesses.

Not to mention the myriad other diseases and afflictions that can strike. What does save you, in this world, is the application of high tech medicine. Even Carla benefited from what is, arguably, the finest medical system on the planet. Not without its serious problems, I’ll grant.

I'm curious upon what you are basing your assessment that the US has the 'finest' medical system on the planet? Assuming you are referring to the US, I would respectfully, but strongly, disagree with you.

Let's look at some statistics:

According to the World Health Organization, the US spends more $$ on healthcare [sic], er, disease management, than all other industrialized nations combined.

So, with all this $$ being spent, one would think we'd be the healthiest nation on the planet, right?

But no. The US ranks #48.

Japan actually ranks #1. They live 6-7 years longer, spend 1/3 as much on healthcare, are much more prevention-oriented, and much healthier.

Even Cuba ranks higher than the US.

By all means, supplement your lifestyle with fresh foods and diet. Get plenty of exercise and meditate. But we all use (and/or will use) contemporary medicine at some point in our lives.

Barring accidents, not necessarily. Many people are now choosing alternative health therapies for serious illnesses like heart disease, diabetes and cancer. There are even health insurance policies that cover only accidents, without covering illnesses. The allopathic approach is not the only option, though it still tries to be a monopoly.

And, barring a debilitating condition that we may have signed onto before we came back to this rock, most of us benefit from modern medicine and preventative procedures.

I agree with what I think you are trying to say, but I would clarify that I don't consider 'modern medicine' ie. allopathic medicine, to be preventative.

That said….there are myriad areas that need change. But the change needed is systemic. And far beyond, I believe, the political manipulations of any country. Its going to take a change in thought patterns species-wide. Not something that can be accomplished in the time any of us have left here. So, unless, something actually happens in 2012…its going to take several more lifetimes of work to bring this about.

You might be surprised! The alternative health industry has grown exponentially in the last couple of decades. If it continues to grow at that rate, the landscape could look drastically different in the next decade. In Japan, for example, at least 25% of their population already engages in preventative healthcare (what would be considered 'alternative' in the US but is normal for them) in a significant way. People are waking up! More and more are realizing that dependency on pharmaceuticals is just causing more drug-induced side effects, causing more drugs to be prescribed, and the cycle continues... Many are now seeking alternatives and being healed, despite being told by the conventional medical system they were incurable.

[TheFifty9Sound]

I've only just heard about this now. I don't live in the USA, but I might end up living there. Did it ever really become illegal to grow your own food?

[omcasey]

Just scanning this thread.. we've got organic raw milk here in Southern California, it's not available in other states?

[BrownEye]

http://www.realmilk.com/happening.html

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Reading THIS they make it sound as if raw milk is full of pathogens.

We know that human milk kills pathogens, and we try to say that cows milk is very similar as a way to justify our ingestion of it.

So what do you suppose the truth is? Fully healthy for us with antipathogen properties? Or dangerous for us because it was never meant for human consumption? I assume it is disinfo that is put up rather than misinfo. If raw milk was so dangerous I assume it would not have been in use throughout history.

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Kind of funny that people will drive so far and pay so much for raw milk if it was so darn dangerous.

[omcasey]

That's an excellent source website, thank you, Pickle.. yeah all stuff we've been going through here, at Rawsome and Organic Pastures is listed there. It's crazy what the officials do, but we're holding firm. Bless the hearts of all those directly involved with keeping us going. The guy that owns Rawsome is amazing, he takes so many financial hits and he just does not go down, we've got beings of steel over here.

[Patrick]

Just scanning this thread.. we've got organic raw milk here in Southern California, it's not available in other states?

Raw milk is not legal here.

[Oceania]

they wanna ban raw milk because it's natural. soon all natural things will be illegal.

[βαθμιαίος]

Here is a state-by-state map of raw milk laws: http://www.farmtoconsumer.org/raw_milk_map.htm

[Richard]

Raw Milk? Having worked in dairy when I was young...I wouldn't touch the stuff with a 10 ft pole. Its a dirty process. Milking cows, that is. The only form of cleansing the milk itself goes through is a single filter. Then into the holding tank to await pick-up.

The udder of a cow is usually just covered with dried fecal matter and urine. The cows teats are not smooth like you would imagine. They are usually quite wrinkled and debris can get trapped in the wrinkles. Most pre-cleaning prior to milking only knocks the surface material off. Thank god for a water hose. Not to mention the bovine diseases that dairy cows are susceptible to that manifest in the milk and udders.

There is a reason for pasteurization.

Richard

[Patrick]

Raw milk is illegal here, but it's possible to get full fat (4%) organic milk.

[Oceania]

blah. then how can the calves drink it? we used to have a thing called "immune system".

[Patrick]

It's illegal to sell it. But they can do whatever they want with it. Just not sell it. Some farmers here give some away (they do accept donations though ).

[Richard]

The human digestive system and the bovine digestive systems are not even remotely similar, O. Its like comparing apples and oranges. We're mammals (or fruit, if you will)...but the similarity ends there.