07-03-2017, 01:43 AM
What is your opinion?
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07-03-2017, 05:28 AM
Can be very useful. Action is the shadow of intention. When you look at another, you seek to see them in clarity, not the shadow itself. On a soul level the shadow as well as the intention is known.
07-03-2017, 05:51 AM
07-03-2017, 10:29 AM
Proceed with caution and utilize as much wisdom as one can muster, trying to not cause a different greater evil.
07-03-2017, 10:34 AM
(This post was last modified: 07-03-2017, 05:38 PM by rva_jeremy.
Edit Reason: Untangling
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(07-03-2017, 01:43 AM)Cainite Wrote: What is your opinion? If you hold that morality is subjective and that there is no such thing as right and wrong -- as I understand Confederation entities to hold -- then it really has less to do with some rule that would dictate the proper outcome in a given scenario and more to do with a sense of responsibility one takes about how one directs one's attention and energy. To expand on this, I think Kant got it right in his Categorical Imperative: that we should act in a way that reflects what we think the universal law ought to be. What I really like is the way he makes morality a creative act: that it is the way we charge our actions to create a moral reality for ourselves and demonstrate something to others by which they can be inspired. And that instead of judging ourselves and others, we should instead strive to perfect our lives as a kind of work of art about the human condition. But I'd take it even further than him, in that we already, innately act in a way that certifies what we think the universal law is. That those things we do evince exactly the way we believe reality and its law works, even if we play mental gymnastics to fool ourselves ("oh, I did something bad" -- no, you did what you thought was right and you are confused about what you actually think/believe/feel). And that that's one of the big things meditation and self-reflection help us with: getting beyond the doublethink of "oh, I'm good" or "oh, I'm bad" way of judging ourselves and the gymnastics we do to avoid facing those harsh, painful judgments. Instead of condemning ourselves according to a moral standard that our actions prove we don't really hold, we might instead actually take our morality seriously as creative act, something that helps us subtly build the world we believe in our hearts should exist. So this approach really helped me understand why the first distortion -- free will -- is also described as the Law of Confusion. It is confusion about own beliefs, desires, etc that contributes to free will that allows us to "do wrong". Confusion is freeing because it allows us to have experiences that we would never really intend if we were completely consistent moral machines. This all strikes me as the real magic of incarnate experience that makes third density so special, so unique in spiritual evolution. Our intellects want order, and they impose it when they find it lacking, but the real growth comes from growing beyond the confines of that rigidity and structure. If the intellect cannot solve the puzzle, then we must go by our hearts, and the opaqueness of the material illusion tees us up for isolating that single channel of power from all our other available channels. The rigidity of phenomenal reality, the way it crystalizes our intent into action through the mechanism of choice, the way it manifests so that we cannot take it back, the way it feedbacks back into our emotions and others', all of these are important features of incarnation. But that doesn't mean all those aspects are equally important to spiritual evolution. I tend to think of the intent as pretty high priority, with all other aspects as tools to purify intent. We can think of "intent" as perhaps some kind of meta-principle one can sometimes only finally understand with the heart; its intellectual intractableness contributes no less to its value as a means of focusing one towards "[that which one would] will to be universal law". Moral questions like the one you articulate, Cainite, are like playing basketball and focusing on really getting good at hitting the backboard. That's a necessary element of the game, but it only really helps you win if the ball goes through the basket, and to me focusing on moral rules is like judging yourself by whether you're hitting the backboard. We want to be able to consistently deliver lay-ups, so we focus on the backboard as a sure way to success, but the bottom line is that you're not always in a position to use the backboard. A moral rule system that helps us tackle non-obvious situations is merely a tool with an understandable purpose. A tool's job is not to do yours for you, and when we demand a discrete answer for any given situation, that sounds less like doing the task better and more like not wanting to do the task at all. We are passing up an opportunity to practice our creative essence when we rely on decision making heuristics alone, which is how I think of moral philosophies. In light of all that, Cainite, I'd say that there is no simple answer to your question, because implicit in the question is the request for an answer independent of the unique conditions and persons involved. We want a rule that can yield the "correct" answer independent of situation (much like those of Ra describe law) but that flies in the face of the spiritual reason for these situations that confound us: they are intended to be catalyst for our growth, not necessarily catalyst for a specific phenomenal, material outcome in the world. We describe morality as a way to effect the right conditions in the world, but an equal if not greater utility lies in effecting the right conditions within ourselves. And what is catalyst but using outer conditions to effect inner changes?
07-03-2017, 10:39 AM
If you want the TL;DR of my post, read T's. Or meditate on Nietzsche's quote:
Quote:That which is done out of love always takes place beyond good and evil.
Though there is no wrong or right in absolute terms, the ends never justify the means. I don't think you can truly further an STO goal using STS means - I think it ends up subverting the energy of yourself and of the goal.
Remember, STO relies on acceptance, while STS relies on control. If you're willing to compromise your morals to achieve something, that's a red flag that you're approaching the situation from a control-based perspective. ----- I think this area is probably a pretty deep field to explore though, and I wouldn't doubt that if you find yourself doing something that is morally compromised to achieve a greater good, you're probably going to manifest futures and realities where this lesson is repeatedly given - where you keep being in situations where you feel like you must compromise yourself to achieve something good, with each situation and each compromise becoming more dire, until you fully adopt STO or STS or become hardcore compartmentalized/unawakened in order to not confront the contradiction. I feel like this theme/lesson is one that many people in our society today are fully occupied with, it seems to be a central lesson related to power and control.
07-03-2017, 03:27 PM
(This post was last modified: 07-03-2017, 03:27 PM by GentleReckoning.)
Think in terms of what is evil, and what is catalyst. What course thread can the creator not turn into finest silk....
Imagine you were 'trying' to be evil, and your opponent responsible for dodging all of your blows or returning the punches are the threesome of God, Infinity, and the Void. Rough day in the long run? Maybe....
07-04-2017, 04:15 PM
(This post was last modified: 07-04-2017, 04:17 PM by loostudent.)
"There are no mistakes under the Law of One." (Ra)
Why are there no mistakes? Maybe because all creation will in course of things reach a sufficent spiritual mass and coalesce. The destination is inevitable. We can choose how to progress until 6D unity is reached. You can choose a strait and narrow path or go astray. There are distortions that speed up spiritual evolution and distortions that will be extinct in the next density. So I think instead of asking: "Is this or that right/wrong?" it would be better to ask: "What is more lasting/transient? What is the value of this in my next density?" I think in 3D there are some situations when doing lesser evil is acceptable for STO entity: Quote:33.9 Questioner: Yes, I do. Then from this I will extrapolate the concept which is somewhat more difficult because as you have explained before, even fourth-density positive has the concept of defensive action, but above the fourth density the concept of defensive action is not in use. The concept of defensive action and [chuckle] offensive action are very much in use in this, our present experience.
07-05-2017, 03:11 PM
(07-03-2017, 10:34 AM)rva_jeremy Wrote: ...we already, innately act in a way that certifies what we think the universal law is. That those things we do evince exactly the way we believe reality and its law works, even if we play mental gymnastics to fool ourselves ("oh, I did something bad" -- no, you did what you thought was right and you are confused about what you actually think/believe/feel). And that that's one of the big things meditation and self-reflection help us with: getting beyond the doublethink of "oh, I'm good" or "oh, I'm bad" way of judging ourselves and the gymnastics we do to avoid facing those harsh, painful judgments. Instead of condemning ourselves according to a moral standard that our actions prove we don't really hold, we might instead actually take our morality seriously as creative act, something that helps us subtly build the world we believe in our hearts should exist. That is amazingly well-articulated and insightful. I think the confusion you speak to is also a function of the un-integrated self. There are various, even competing, even warring impulses and beliefs within the totality of our selves. Sometimes completely contradictory and mutually exclusive. Which is us? Which is real? Which do we listen to? I think what you say of meditation is a fundamental means of orienting toward the asking and, perhaps, the answering of those questions. It is a matter of knowing the self. The more deeply, or truly, or (insert other adverb) we know/accept the self, the more that that-which-is-less-representative-of-who-we-really-are falls away. It is no longer needed. We act out of that wholeness. And that is always "right," even if we identify distortion in a particular action, thought, or pattern, and then seek to lessen that distortion. Like your quote says, "That which is done out of love always takes place beyond good and evil." So, Cainite, morality (right vs. wrong, good vs bad) may provide a helpful lens to examine this or any given situation. But it is very limited for your true, ultimate aim. Examining your situation in terms of that which is of greatest service to others, or being your most authentic self, or that which is more/less distorted may be more helpful lenses. Explanation by the tongue makes most things clear, but love unexplained is clearer. - Rumi
Ok.. I sit in meditation and I can't find my heart. I feel nothing! I may get disappointed by this because it seems tragic to me to be away from my own emotions. I smoke a lot of pot and it is said to numb emotions if used more than you should.. I just quit tramadol recently as well.
so this may be the reason I am questioning things and thinking what's right rather than feeling it..
07-06-2017, 09:42 AM
(This post was last modified: 07-06-2017, 09:43 AM by rva_jeremy.)
Drugs affect different people in different ways. I wrote about my experiences on my bring4th blog (September 8, 2015, sorry there's no permalink but the blog is here). I used to think marijuana numbed my emotions, but one of the first big discoveries I made starting my meditation ritual was realizing that the drug actually was helping me feel my emotions much more vividly and viscerally. In fact, I think I just came to associate being high with the especial effort I had to exert in order to close those vivid feelings down, and once I started paying attention to my emotions (high or no) I got a lot more immediate information about how they work. I'm just remembering that I realized that certain sensations I would get when I was stoned were directly related to chakras, of which I'd never had a direct experience, and started seeing the relationships between chakras and how I feel. It was a really rewarding experience, and I also definitely don't feel the desire to get high as much nowadays. I hope my experience yields some comfort or insight.
07-06-2017, 12:52 PM
If you have to ask, then you already know. Your mind is seeking justification. We always know the correct thing to do (for us as individuals). Sometimes it's not easy to access this knowing, but justifying an action is not a knowing—it's a mind game and is usually about control.
(07-06-2017, 09:42 AM)rva_jeremy Wrote: Drugs affect different people in different ways. I wrote about my experiences on my bring4th blog (September 8, 2015, sorry there's no permalink but the blog is here). I used to think marijuana numbed my emotions, but one of the first big discoveries I made starting my meditation ritual was realizing that the drug actually was helping me feel my emotions much more vividly and viscerally. In fact, I think I just came to associate being high with the especial effort I had to exert in order to close those vivid feelings down, and once I started paying attention to my emotions (high or no) I got a lot more immediate information about how they work. I'm just remembering that I realized that certain sensations I would get when I was stoned were directly related to chakras, of which I'd never had a direct experience, and started seeing the relationships between chakras and how I feel. It was a really rewarding experience, and I also definitely don't feel the desire to get high as much nowadays. I hope my experience yields some comfort or insight. What I said was ''if you smoke pot more than you should'' The emotional apathy happens after you use it a lot. but If you can smoke little, I have also found it to have good effects. (07-06-2017, 12:52 PM)Diana Wrote: If you have to ask, then you already know. Your mind is seeking justification. We always know the correct thing to do (for us as individuals). Sometimes it's not easy to access this knowing, but justifying an action is not a knowing—it's a mind game and is usually about control. Yeah.. unfortunately. I hope I can change during this life time.
07-06-2017, 03:59 PM
I have to go with jeremy here. I have been smoking lots of weed in the last couple of years. And I've just taken a serious break. It's been 2 months now. What I can say is that the drug is never to blame in itself, it's what we do with it. And just like jeremy I used to feel so intensely emotional that over time it became hard to be in social situations without severely closing on my emotions. So much that I couldn't feel them either. Once I started the break I became very emotional, almost incapable of balancing anything and integrating everything that surrounded me. I was so confused and I was feeling an immense degree of seperation with everything. I was unable to see things within, even though I knew very much from an intellectual standpoint that I was one with the external and that it was reflecting my inner state. Even thouh I would process that easily just a few weeks before. I became angry, uneasy and it was hard to relax. Only just in the past 2 weeks and even moreso in the last few days I feel like my consciousness is slowly becoming more united and I see things more clearly, I relate more with the external. And I still don't think the weed is a bad thing. But it is necessary to recognize that the body needs time to cleanse. Exercizing also helps. Also, taking a break helps realizing certain things like what is your emotional state when you use it. For me weed has been helping me break all my barriers when I started using it, and I had a lot. But I also recognize now that using too often take away my habiliy to do that by myself, and so it's harder to know oneself if you do not have enough "sober time".
As for the initial question, I suppose your concerns means you care to be a good person. What does that mean for you? What do you consider good or bad behaviors in others? From there start acting out of these beliefs. If you firmly believe you are a good person and act in a way that reflect your beliefs, you will manifest goodness. Ultimately, perceiving someone as evil is a projection of one's own fear and lack of understanding of someone else. No one is truely evil in it's true meaning, but some do believe they are, and it prevents them from improving with time. It's convenient but not very fullfillimg.
07-07-2017, 03:59 AM
Quote:There are substances ingested which do not aid the individual in the service it has chosen, this being that which you would call the marijuana. This is due to the distortion towards chemical lapses within the mind complex causing lack of synaptic continuity. (Ra) (07-06-2017, 03:59 PM)Night Owl Wrote: I have to go with jeremy here. I have been smoking lots of weed in the last couple of years. And I've just taken a serious break. It's been 2 months now. What I can say is that the drug is never to blame in itself, it's what we do with it. And just like jeremy I used to feel so intensely emotional that over time it became hard to be in social situations without severely closing on my emotions. So much that I couldn't feel them either. Once I started the break I became very emotional, almost incapable of balancing anything and integrating everything that surrounded me. I was so confused and I was feeling an immense degree of seperation with everything. I was unable to see things within, even though I knew very much from an intellectual standpoint that I was one with the external and that it was reflecting my inner state. Even thouh I would process that easily just a few weeks before. I became angry, uneasy and it was hard to relax. Only just in the past 2 weeks and even moreso in the last few days I feel like my consciousness is slowly becoming more united and I see things more clearly, I relate more with the external. And I still don't think the weed is a bad thing. But it is necessary to recognize that the body needs time to cleanse. Exercizing also helps. Also, taking a break helps realizing certain things like what is your emotional state when you use it. For me weed has been helping me break all my barriers when I started using it, and I had a lot. But I also recognize now that using too often take away my habiliy to do that by myself, and so it's harder to know oneself if you do not have enough "sober time". Yeah.. that's basically what I tried to say. I have relied on THC for at least seven years. I stopped when I showed mental illness symptoms. and after two years I was a lot better. then I started using it with tramadol pills 4 months ago and now I'm quitting again. and yeah I do work out.. I'm childishly infatuated by shaolin monks and practice combat heavily when I'm in the mood. btw I'm 27 now. I don't believe I'm good or bad. cuz I've been both. sometimes extremely noble and sometimes the reverse.. two days ago when I was struggling with the belief that I'm evil I asked my higher self to advise me and in meditation I was shown 3 memories in which I defended the weak and risked getting my own ass beat or even knifed by a gang. I believe I was sto and I lost my path in this incarnation.
07-07-2017, 09:38 AM
May I ask what did you use tramadol for?
In case your severage is very recent, the body takes a while to cleanse itself so hopefully your thoughts will get clearer and more positive in the coming days. The first few days and sometimes weeks of changing any chemical balance of the body often creates very bizarre states of mind. Sorry you feel confused and lost. Hold on to those cool memories you were shown.
07-07-2017, 12:34 PM
(07-06-2017, 01:16 PM)Cainite Wrote: What I said was ''if you smoke pot more than you should'' I definitely was smoking more than you should. But it's hard to be apathetic when, even if you're smoking a lot, you're turning your gaze inward. Just noticing aspects of yourself, even without taking action, is pretty damn powerful.
07-07-2017, 01:55 PM
(07-07-2017, 09:38 AM)Night Owl Wrote: May I ask what did you use tramadol for? I used tra cuz I'm stupid and sought to satisfy myself.. even though I have had a seizure once on a very high dose in public. drugs are like sex to me. and I like both very much! So yeah... I'm pretty damn stupid. (07-07-2017, 12:34 PM)rva_jeremy Wrote:(07-06-2017, 01:16 PM)Cainite Wrote: What I said was ''if you smoke pot more than you should'' Yeah it's always like that when I smoke little. but when I used it all day everyday, it didn't have the same effects anymore.
07-07-2017, 02:52 PM
I don't think you're stupid. We do the things we do for reasons and it is a very important to acknowledge them. Altering our state of mind answer a need. For me it started by breaking my barriers and oh boy it did. I had so much preconceptions back then. I thought drugs were stupid and people who did drugs were just stupid. In fact I maybe even thought everyone was stupid. I was most likely the most stupid of all of them.
Interestingly I've done many drugs after that. All limitations and preconceptions I had disappeared and I stopped judging people so severely so drugs have been very helpful for me. I can't I'm 100% judgment free but it's night and day compared to my teenage years. So I can't judge you for using them, you just need to know which need you are answering with them. Once you know that, you can more easily decide with your conscious mind when it is good for you and when it is abuse. Don't beat yourself up because of past abuse, we're all prone to that in different ways. I also tend to beat myself up sometimes. Having friends who were a lot more carefree than me has helped me a lot about that.
07-07-2017, 03:02 PM
(07-07-2017, 01:55 PM)Cainite Wrote: Yeah it's always like that when I smoke little. but when I used it all day everyday, it didn't have the same effects anymore. See, what I'm trying to get across in a very poor way, my apologies, is exactly what Night Owl said: it's not the drug at all. I mean, I can't know for certain with you, but I have my suspicions. I used to blame drugs for my lack of reflection, spiritual responsibility, etc. But for me it really came down to blaming drug use and using that as an excuse not to delve deeper. Your milage may vary but there is no use in being so hard on yourself. We're all doing the best we can. |
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