"I cannot understand a thing," then what is metaphysical discussion oriented around?
04-20-2017, 12:00 AM, (This post was last modified: 04-20-2017, 12:00 AM by sjel.)
#1
"I cannot understand a thing," then what is metaphysical discussion oriented around?
What is meant to be achieved by discussing topics such as the higher densities and the idea of Self? By definition these concepts cannot be expressed in words.

Any description of literally anything beyond third density is completely and utterly lacking. That is the only realization that can be achieved by discussing higher densities.


*note that of course I am intensely interested in higher densities and descriptions of Self and Selfless states, and I will continue to ask and wonder. But I feel like there is no substance at all to any words or even thoughts attached to these concepts.

My confusion grows.

Always be aware!
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rva_jeremy
04-20-2017, 12:24 AM,
#2
words
Words are signs. Pointers. They can't communicate the reality, but they might light the way for some people. Everybody has access to intuition. Sometimes words help people zone in on metaphysical realities that they know on an intuitive level, but couldn't intellectually verbalize in a logical manner. It is like listening to music. You don't need someone to tell you that a song is harmonious, you just know it, balls to bones. Intuition is the same way once it is honed, you can hear the pitch, the rhythm, and timbre of the truth being expressed. The serious truth seeker is engaged in a constant journey of synthesizing logic and intuition.

One, know yourself. Two, accept yourself. Three, become the Creator.
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04-20-2017, 12:52 AM,
#3
RE: "I cannot understand a thing," then what is metaphysical discussion oriented around?
The allure of the mystery.
Smile, your heart will thank you for it.
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04-20-2017, 11:22 AM, (This post was last modified: 04-20-2017, 11:37 AM by Infinite Unity.)
#4
RE: "I cannot understand a thing," then what is metaphysical discussion orie...
(04-20-2017, 12:00 AM)sjel Wrote:  What is meant to be achieved by discussing topics such as the higher densities and the idea of Self? By definition these concepts cannot be expressed in words.

Any description of literally anything beyond third density is completely and utterly lacking. That is the only realization that can be achieved by discussing higher densities.


*note that of course I am intensely interested in higher densities and descriptions of Self and Selfless states, and I will continue to ask and wonder. But I feel like there is no substance at all to any words or even thoughts attached to these concepts.

My confusion grows.

I agree to a large extent it is utterly useless to try and teach unity awareness. I do believe it is good inspiration though. My personal belief is that the people experiencing these profound states wish to jut talk about it. To just express. Its one of those things you just want to run around and tell people about. The energy the emotion...

It is not that there is no self. It is that the self extends into everything. In my opinion stop trying to lose the self, and realize the true self.

You been reading Tibetan books?
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I am Shayne
04-20-2017, 12:37 PM,
#5
RE: "I cannot understand a thing," then what is metaphysical discussion oriented around?
Awesome statements! :

"Words are signs. Pointers."

"..stop trying to lose the self, and realize the true self."

What is meant to be achieved by discussing topics such as the higher densities and the idea of Self?

I think; because quantifying infinity is a fun game to play.

__1337333_____1337456_____7EMF999___
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04-20-2017, 01:06 PM,
#6
RE: "I cannot understand a thing," then what is metaphysical discussion oriented around?
Well let's consider a "word" is and what a string of them is used to elucidate from a mechanical point of view.

I'm biased because I've considered this. What do you think?
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04-20-2017, 01:29 PM,
#7
RE: "I cannot understand a thing," then what is metaphysical discussion orie...
Along the lines of what anagogy said, words and discussion are like the finger pointing to the moon. The finger is not the moon, but it can be helpful.

And really, if you think about it, discussing "higher densities" (or other specific topics beyond the scope of 3rd density experience from the Ra material) is, on the surface, irrelevant to practical and spiritual lives. We are here in 3rd density living our 3rd density lives, understanding the conditions of 6th density is a bit like understanding the temperature of the surface of Mercury. Sure, it's interesting information, but how can we apply it to our life in a direct way?

I think the reason we find such discussion so compelling is because it puts our own experience within a certain context, provides contrast and comparison, story and myth, ideals and inspiration. We can't directly use knowledge of higher densities in a meaningful way, but they certainly can correlate to our current experiences. We can hear about the conditions of 6th density, but like you say, any description or image of such conditions is pointless as it has been grasped within our 3rd density paradigm. But doesn't it help us to understand and expand our 3rd density paradigm?

Not only are things like higher densities correlated to our experiences through the energy centers, but contemplating and imagining them seem to put us in a different state of consciousness. We can relate descriptions of higher densities to ways we have felt, ideals and morals we have attempted to grasp, ways of being that we can see play out in our own lives and around the world. We go through our own microcosmic progression every second of every day, to which the densities are a macrocosm. As a fractal, the actual higher density might be out of our current grasp, but there is a direct experience we are having now that resonates with the discussion of higher densities, and they are of the same progression.

Do you feel you have not gained anything from such discussions?
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The only frontier that has ever existed is the self.
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04-20-2017, 01:30 PM,
#8
RE: "I cannot understand a thing," then what is metaphysical discussion orie...
Read Flatland. Being exposed to the exploration, even in words, of realities beyond one's own present reality, expands consciousness. It may not provide understanding—that comes later. But it widens the view. It reminds us of possibilities. 
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04-20-2017, 02:19 PM,
#9
RE: "I cannot understand a thing," then what is metaphysical discussion oriented around?
Yeah, Flatland is a really good illustration of limited perception, as well as hinting at what it might be like if humans were able to cross over into the "fourth dimension." Too bad about the Victorian sexism, which is kind of egregious at points, but if someone can get past that there's definitely quite a lot of value in reading it.

Time will tell.  It always does.
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04-20-2017, 04:41 PM,
#10
RE: "I cannot understand a thing," then what is metaphysical discussion oriented around?
We attract what we think. Even though in an abstract context, concentrating on higher dimensions inevitably elevates us to the high vibrations of our infinite universe.

Peace, love and light.
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04-21-2017, 12:20 AM, (This post was last modified: 04-21-2017, 12:20 AM by sjel.)
#11
RE: "I cannot understand a thing," then what is metaphysical discussion orie...
(04-20-2017, 01:29 PM)Bring4th_Austin Wrote:  Do you feel you have not gained anything from such discussions?

I have gained an unshakable sense of wonder and mystery for sure.

I guess I'm just wondering how to simultaneously not understand and conceptualize at the same time. Socrates said 'the only thing I know is that I know nothing.' But he was a philosophical genius. What is it that he was describing in his writings and teachings, then, if he was constantly aware of his lack of understanding? What is one communicating when they know they know nothing?

Always be aware!
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rva_jeremy
04-21-2017, 12:25 AM,
#12
RE: "I cannot understand a thing," then what is metaphysical discussion orie...
(04-20-2017, 12:24 AM)anagogy Wrote:  The serious truth seeker is engaged in a constant journey of synthesizing logic and intuition.

It kind of feels like intuition is all there is. It is starting to feel like logic is just a subset of intuition. Like intuition is the mainframe, and logic is the little illusory programs that you play with along the way. Like intuition is what you're attached to, the rope that pulls you ever upward, and logic are the playgrounds that you stop at along your path until you outgrow that one, on to the next, more advanced form of logic. But logic will always be abandoned eventually.

Always be aware!
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04-21-2017, 06:30 AM, (This post was last modified: 04-21-2017, 06:39 AM by Night Owl.)
#13
RE: "I cannot understand a thing," then what is metaphysical discussion oriented around?
I stumbled upon this video a few minutes ago and I feel like it is intimately tied with this subject.





Welcome to lygometry

Lygometry (“lygo”: latin for shadow or darkness “Metry”: Measurement) so lygometry is a process where you measure things you know that you do not know, questions on knowledge that you know you don't have, it's like searching or ask the questions about those dark or shadowy place which you know you know nothing about.

Apparently the creator has created a reversopedia which is some kind of wikipedia of all that we know we don't. How interesting Big Grin

Interesting quote from the video about the unknown and it's dark side: ''Lygometry, asking the open questions, acknowledging the things you know you don't know, is a very vulnerable process. But if you endure the pressure, if you can get through it, on the other side there's creativity, there's innovation, there's liberation. No pressure, no diamond''

The creator is on both sides of the mirror but it's essence lies in the reflection itself. Dive within and it shall be reflected through you
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sjel
04-21-2017, 12:52 PM,
#14
RE: "I cannot understand a thing," then what is metaphysical discussion orie...
It's oriented around our desire to look at these things from a much more open and mysterious perspective.

If you're a wanderer, you aready know a lot of these things.  Imagine being Einstein and you choose to live as a child Einstein who didn't know all he does now, who gets to rediscover everything all over again but in a new way, from a potentially new personality, and a very different viewpoint.  And this kid Einstein one day says, 'I wonder what things are like at the speed of light.  In one way, this kid knows, but right now he doesn't. His mind is free to grasp openly, speculate largely, he has no template but has aready done it, maybe he remembers a little bit and it helps, or through the same faculties Einstein discovered e=mc2 he as a kid will rediscover e=mc2 or perhaps something else entirely new now that he is getting to try again with a previous success.

But throughout it all, what was the point?  That kid Einstein can't possibly understand the depth of what that knowledge entails, he as a kid won't be able to go much beyond his previous success, but as a kid, to be there even then is enough to expand things.

Talking about higher stoof, is giving us wanderers (and 3D's) chances to give 3D ideas beyond its time to advance it.  Its like a Buddha, only in idea form instead of Corporeal.  It helps 3D with its simple presence there.

The Point is that there Is No Point, EXCEPT, The Point You Author.

Earth would be very different if it didn't know it was going into another kind of reality.  Good thing these higher things helped inform it with some ideas though Wink
To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And a Heaven in a Wild Flower
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour
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Infinite Unity
04-24-2017, 01:18 PM,
#15
RE: "I cannot understand a thing," then what is metaphysical discussion orie...
(04-21-2017, 12:25 AM)sjel Wrote:  
(04-20-2017, 12:24 AM)anagogy Wrote:  The serious truth seeker is engaged in a constant journey of synthesizing logic and intuition.

It kind of feels like intuition is all there is. It is starting to feel like logic is just a subset of intuition. Like intuition is the mainframe, and logic is the little illusory programs that you play with along the way. Like intuition is what you're attached to, the rope that pulls you ever upward, and logic are the playgrounds that you stop at along your path until you outgrow that one, on to the next, more advanced form of logic. But logic will always be abandoned eventually.

I definitely am starting to feel like this, but I suspect this is merely a function of balancing against a great deal of intellectual imbalance on my part.

In my opinion--and this is just my opinion--logic, reason, rationality, etc. are just heuristics for evaluating information within a particular context.  What the spiritual demands is a fluidity of context in which these heuristics operate, a fluidity that can only come from understanding the deeper self employing the heuristic.  In my life I find this often feels like a kind of comfort with or acceptance of paradox, ambiguity, and lack of resolution.  

I find when I stress the logical, it is largely about satisfying myself with the comfort of resolution, where every element has a clear explanation that reinforces every other element.  It is not about finding out what is "true" nearly as much as achieving a conclusion that is sufficiently true to placate me.  I find much discourse that describes itself as rational operates this way, where the goal is achieving certainty within the material context instead of actually following all the threads of logic (since each one of these threads  followed long enough can lead to conclusions that contradict the others).

I concur with the other posters here who have described words as pointers, but I think there's a larger point to be made: you have to do your homework in order to make the best use of class time.  One has to do the work of finding the things within being pointed at.  Otherwise, discussing the Law of One will be a mostly intellectual exercise of debate and definition, building a complex metaphysical model that allows for a shallow sense of resolution while not exploring any of the substance and rich meaning below the surface.  

I agree wholeheartedly with you that there's not much point endlessly discussing the ineffable, the intangible, the paradoxical that is at the center of our common search--except if you augment that discussion with your own inner work.    Discussions such as this one can never be that substantive experience, but they can call upon your substantive experience and draw your attention to new, novel, radical ways of thinking and feeling it.  

In other words, understanding is not of this density because the kind of resolution that typically attends understanding is largely unreachable.  This is because our lives are not for their own sake, in my opinion, but are means to a greater end.  As means, they do not self-resolve.  We must look for resolution in deeper waters.

Jeremy
It is not that love will tell you what to do.
It is that love will tell you how to do it with love.
Q'uo 3/19/06
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04-24-2017, 05:51 PM, (This post was last modified: 04-27-2017, 07:46 PM by Minyatur.)
#16
"I cannot understand a thing," then what is metaphysical discussion oriented around?
I always liked to say that while a picture is worth a thousand words, so is a word worth a thousand pictures.

The pointer thing is probably the best analogy for anyone with a background in computer science and computer languages are a good example for the versability of keywords toward the same end, which shows that in the end its all about intelligent patterns and that from them you can build anything.

Also, walls of text may sometimes seem like a lot of mental gymanastics from another's perspective, but like in my case, most of my posts are single streams of thought which I re-read and refine and edit afterwards a bit in the wording and such. But a single huge block of text, more often than not, is but an attempt to paint a single picture or idea through words.

What a fine day. The wind drifting and caressing my skin, nature ever blooming into wonder and the sky ever most glorious up high!
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