WHY would it have been necessary for Carla to go through negative space/time?

[sjel]

When she slipped and almost got caught up into negative time/space, why the heck would she have needed to go through millions of years of negative space/time experience to balance out ONE MOMENT?!?!

Here is the relevant portion:

68.4 ▶ Questioner: The primary reason that we considered it important to have this session today is that I might not be around for a while and I had a pressing question about what happened Sunday night when, apparently, the instrument was slipping into a trance state during one of the normal meetings, and I would like to question you on this. Can you give me information about what happened?
Ra: I am Ra. We can.

68.5 ▶ Questioner: Would you tell me what happened in that case?
Ra: I am Ra. We have instructed this instrument to refrain from calling us unless it is within this set of circumscribed circumstances. In the event of which you speak this instrument was asked a question which pertained to what you have been calling The Ra Material. This instrument was providing the voice for our brothers and sisters of the wisdom density known to you as Latwii.

This instrument thought to itself, “I do not know this answer. I wish I were channeling Ra.” The ones of Latwii found themselves in the position of being approached by the Orion entity which seeks to be of service in its own way. The instrument began to prepare for Ra contact. Latwii knew that if this was completed the Orion entity would have an opportunity which Latwii wished to avoid.

It is fortunate for this instrument, firstly, that Latwii is of fifth density and able to deal with that particular vibratory complex which the Orion entity was manifesting and, secondly, that there were those in the support group at that time which sent great amounts of support to the instrument in this crux. Thus what occurred was the ones of Latwii never let go of this instrument although this came perilously close to breaking the Way of Confusion. It continued to hold its connection with the mind/body/spirit complex of the instrument and to generate information through it even as the instrument began to slip out of its physical vehicle.

The act of continued communication caused the entity to be unable to grasp the instrument’s mind/body/spirit complex and after but a small measure of your space/time Latwii recovered the now completely amalgamated instrument and gave it continued communication to steady it during the transition back into integration.

* This question and answer refer to the L/L Research Sunday night meditation of August 16, 1981.

68.6 ▶ Questioner: Could you tell me what the plan of the fifth-density negatively oriented entity was and how it would have accomplished it and what the results would have been if it had worked?
Ra: I am Ra. The plan, which is ongoing, was to take the mind/body/spirit complex while it was separated from its yellow body physical complex shell, to then place this mind/body/spirit complex within the negative portions of your time/space. The shell would then become that of the unknowing, unconscious entity and could be, shall we say, worked upon to cause malfunction which would end in coma and then in what you call the death of the body. At this point the higher self of the instrument would have the choice of leaving the mind/body/spirit complex in negative sp— we correct— time/space or of allowing incarnation in space/time of equivalent vibration and polarity distortions. Thus this entity would become a negatively polarized entity without the advantage of native negative polarization. It would find a long path to the Creator under these circumstances although the path would inevitably end well.

68.7 ▶ Questioner: Then you are saying that if this fifth-density negative entity is successful in its attempts to transfer the mind/body/spirit complex when that complex is in what we call the trance state to negatively polarized time/space, then the higher self has no choice but to allow incarnation in negatively polarized space/time? Is that correct?
Ra: I am Ra. This is incorrect. The Higher Self could allow the mind/body/spirit complex to remain in time/space. However, it is unlikely that the Higher Self would do so indefinitely due to its distortion towards the belief that the function of the mind/body/spirit complex is to experience and learn from other-selves thus experiencing the Creator. A highly polarized positive mind/body/spirit complex surrounded by negative portions of space/time* will experience only darkness, for like the magnet, there is no, shall we say, likeness. Thus a barrier is automatically formed.

* Don’s follow-up question and Ra’s answer to it (68.8) appear to indicate that Ra meant to say time/space here.

68.8 ▶ Questioner: Let me be sure that I understand you. Is that darkness experienced in negative space/time or in negative time/space?
Ra: I am Ra. Negative time/space.

68.9 ▶ Questioner: Incarnation in negative space/time then in a condition like that would result in incarnation into which density level for, let us take as an example, the instrument?
Ra: I am Ra. The answer to this query violates the first distortion.

68.10 ▶ Questioner: OK, let’s not take the instrument then as an example. Let’s say that this was done to a Wanderer of sixth density. If this answer violates the first distortion, don’t answer. But let’s say a sixth-density Wanderer had this happen, and went into negative time/space. Would that be a sixth-density negative time/space, and would he incarnate into sixth-density negative space/time?
Ra: I am Ra. Your assumption is correct. The strength of the polarization would be matched as far as possible. In some positive sixth-density Wanderers the approximation would not quite be complete due to the paucity of negative sixth-density energy fields of the equivalent strength.

68.11 ▶ Questioner: Is the reason that this could be done the fact that the Wanderer’s mind/body/spirit complex extracted in what we call the trance state, leaving the third-density physical, in this state the Wanderer does not have the full capability or capability to magically defend itself? Is this correct?
Ra: I am Ra. In the case of this instrument, this is correct. This is also correct when applied almost without exception to those instruments working in trance which have not consciously experienced magical training in time/space in the, shall we say, present incarnation. The entities of your density capable of magical defense in this situation are extremely rare.

68.12 ▶ Questioner: It would seem to me that since I can’t imagine anything anything worse, shall I say, than this particular result, other than possibly the total disintegration of the mind/body/spirit complex due to nuclear bomb, that it would be very advisable to seek out the magical training and defense for this situation. Could Ra and would Ra instruct in this type of magical defense?
Ra: I am Ra. This request lies beyond the first distortion. The entity seeking magical ability must do so in a certain manner. We may give instructions of a general nature. This we have already done. The instrument has begun the process of balancing the self. This is a lengthy process.

To take an entity before it is ready and offer it the scepter of magical power is to infringe in an unbalanced manner. We may suggest with some asperity that the instrument never call upon Ra in any way while unprotected by the configuration which is at this time present.

[Patrick]

 
If I remember correctly, Carla was seeing the negative entity as a very beautiful entity that was full of light.  The entity was asking Carla to follow it and Carla was going to do it by choice, out of her own free will.  Her higher self would not prevent such a choice, even if Carla was being lured, in a sense, and not knowing the full impact of that choice.

Once in negative time/space, by her own choice, it seems the higher self cannot move the entity back.  Your question is a very good one.  Maybe it could also be phrased in the following way.

Why can't the higher self move a part of itself into another vibratory domain?
 

[AnthroHeart]

negative time/space or space/time is like a gravity well. Once in it, it sucks you in.

[sjel]

 
If I remember correctly, Carla was seeing the negative entity as a very beautiful entity that was full of light.  The entity was asking Carla to follow it and Carla was going to do it by choice, out of her own free will.  Her higher self would not prevent such a choice, even if Carla was being lured, in a sense, and not knowing the full impact of that choice.

Once in negative time/space, by her own choice, it seems the higher self cannot move the entity back.  Your question is a very good one.  Maybe it could also be phrased in the following way.

Why can't the higher self move a part of itself into another vibratory domain?
 

But why should she then have to repolarize as a negative entity? We're talking 100 million years, if she's sixth density as we surmise. 100 million years of negative polarization because of a single mistake that happened in a few minutes. I don't understand how this is a balanced trade here.

[sjel]

negative time/space or space/time is like a gravity well. Once in it, it sucks you in.

ahh i like that explanation. makes sense that once an entity feels that power of self they can't leave until they explore it to its fullest depths. I still can't believe that it's fair, however, to spend tens of millions of years paying off a dumb choice. "oops, I accidentally fell for this obviously beautiful creature who is vastly more powerful than I am because they have the advantage of being out of the veil" ... 100 million years of punishment. Although maybe it would stop being punishment at a certain point when the entity sees the beauty and power of Self. maybe end of fourth density it wouldn't be punishment anymore?

[anagogy]

When she slipped and almost got caught up into negative time/space, why the heck would she have needed to go through millions of years of negative space/time experience to balance out ONE MOMENT?!?!

The reason why it would take millions of years is because time/space is *mental space* and to *move into time/space* is to move into negative thought. In otherwords, you think negative, you become negative. And once you are negatively polarized, you then incarnate negatively, and live negatively, and evolve negatively. It is essentially a case of getting brainwashed into negativity. How many people in our physical world have been lured into life styles, beliefs, and other circumstances because some charismatic individual convinced them of their "positive nature" only to gradually lead them to destructive and negatively oriented lives? The realm of time/space is no different to an ignorant, and veiled point of consciousness. You can end up in the wrong neighborhood with the wrong people. But it takes time for a being to be "detuned", which of course is in ample supply in time/space. It is a wholly free will event.

Keep in mind it is an extremely rare circumstance (it has only occurred to one wanderer according to Ra in the last 75,000 years).

The likelihood of that actually happening to Carla, even during the Ra channeling (in this particular referenced circumstance), was likely over emphasized by Ra, but like everything, even the slightest possibility of it occurring was treated with all due seriousness, because that is Ra's nature -- to prepare for even the most unlikely of events and dangers. The possibility of you getting struck by lightening walking outside during a thunderstorm is probably ridiculously low, but Ra would be like the caring parent that makes you take precautions during that circumstances regardless, because, well, you never know.

[sjel]

Keep in mind it is an extremely rare circumstance (it has only occurred to one wanderer according to Ra in the last 75,000 years).

I wonder how rare it is among wanderers who are capable of falling into a trance state. That qualification probably drops the number of possible wanderers to a small fraction of the total wanderers. No wanderer is going to get that opportunity to choose negative if he's living this life unaware of who he is, right?? and most wanderers are unaware, i think that's what Ra said.

How many people in our physical world have been lured into life styles, beliefs, and other circumstances because some charismatic individual convinced them of their "positive nature" only to gradually lead them to destructive and negatively oriented lives? The realm of time/space is no different to an ignorant, and veiled point of consciousness. You can end up in the wrong neighborhood with the wrong people. But it takes time for a being to be "detuned", which of course is in ample supply in time/space. It is a wholly free will event.

you said "gradually lead them." but Carla's experience, from start to finish, was a few minutes, less. so does that mean that Carla, in the interaction with the negative entity, would have been in an essentially timeless state? so really it wasn't "a few minutes' worth" of mistaken choice? it would be a timeless choice.

[anagogy]

I wonder how rare it is among wanderers who are capable of falling into a trance state. That qualification probably drops the number of possible wanderers to a small fraction of the total wanderers. No wanderer is going to get that opportunity to choose negative if he's living this life unaware of who he is, right?? and most wanderers are unaware, i think that's what Ra said.

There is always a choice to become negative, whether in trance, or not. But the circumstance of being led away into negative time/space is extremely unlikely. It is slightly more likely (though not significantly so) to leave your body for the purpose of "service to others". Essentially, you try to do a great service, you will inevitably be approached by dark beings who don't like you doing that.

But again, its like walking outside during a thunderstorm, getting struck by lightening, in likelihood terms (even less so). It is a function of innocent gullibility to follow negative beings, and then gradually listen and accept their negative philosophy (though some are no doubt extremely good at persuasion i.e. think of devil archetypes, Faustian deals etc.).

you said "gradually lead them." but Carla's experience, from start to finish, was a few minutes, less. so does that mean that Carla, in the interaction with the negative entity, would have been in an essentially timeless state? so really it wasn't "a few minutes' worth" of mistaken choice? it would be a timeless choice.

Exactly. A few minutes of space/time is infinite time in the realms of time/space. It wasn't an "instantaneous deal" no matter how it looks from the space/time vantage point.

[Dog Star]

i've glimpses of resting in time/space before incarnating, it felt like eternal peace

[APeacefulWarrior]

You might want to check out the extended discussion Ra gives in Session 89, beginning at Question 27, where he talks at some length two formerly-positive entities who unintentionally flipped negative during a 3D incarnation, and their journey afterwards. It's probably the most detailed talk about the process he gives.

But one thing I'd caution you about is looking at the process as "punishment." There's no punishment involved, either figuratively or literally. Just different forms of experience. Undoubtedly it would seem unpleasant at first, but once the entity embraced their new circumstances, they would be opening up entire new realms (literally) of teach/learning activities. And when they came out the other side, so to speak, they would be vastly wiser and better-able to grasp the balances and interplay between positive and negative polarities.

While I don't believe Ra ever said this directly, I strongly suspect that entities who go through such experiences end up having a very easy/accelerated 6D cycle.

[Ashim]

Depending on the vibrational discrepancies of the entities involved the "millions on years" could be perceived by the positive entity as mere seconds once returning to the 3rd density physical body consciousness. In the event of a greater disparity, for example in the case of a negative entity of significant vibrational superiority then the experience for the positive entity would be akin to time traveling to the location in negative space/time corresponding to the current octave, sub-octave etc., in the spiral. Then it would be possible for the positive entity to have to experience part of, a single or even multiple cycles in negative space/time in order to progress due to amnesia. The amnesia is, I believe the sort of "manipulation" by the negative entity that Ra was referring to.

I have the feeling that we spiraled out of Ra's "extremely rare circumstance" of a 75,000 year negative space/time cycle on exactly 21.12.2012 and that the "one wanderer" Ra mentioned, but could not name due to the Law of Confusion, was the "true light bringer".

Maybe an entity currently in incarnation evolved beyond mid 6th density and became the Logos or Prime Creator?

[Billy]

This and the part about a mind/body/spirit complex dissolving due to nuclear power have never sat well with me.  They are just unthinkable for me.  I know that everything is experience but I draw the line at the Creator losing a portion of itself as well this whole being sucked into negative time/space business.  No thank you.

[APeacefulWarrior]

This and the part about a mind/body/spirit complex dissolving due to nuclear power have never sat well with me.  They are just unthinkable for me.  I know that everything is experience but I draw the line at the Creator losing a portion of itself as well this whole being sucked into negative time/space business.  No thank you.

You know, I've seen people mention the whole thing about being "disintegrated" by a nuclear bomb, but I can't find anywhere in the materials that Ra specifically said that. Is it something Seth said, or something like that? A couple comments Ra made in Session 26 would seem to suggest that while it's an extreme form of death which would require much healing, a nuclear blast still wouldn't cause anything to be lost or the destruction of an entity\spirit:

26.25 Questioner: But then, in general then you’re saying that if we— you will allow earth, the population of this planet to have a nuclear war and many deaths from that war, but you will be able to create a condition where these deaths will be no more traumatic, shall I say, with respect to entrance to the heaven world or astral world or whatever we call it than death by a bullet or normal means of dying of old age. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is incorrect. It would be more traumatic. However, the entity would remain an entity.

And:

26.28 Questioner: I was thinking specifically if an entity was in Hiroshima or Nagasaki at that time and he was reaching harvestability at the end of our cycle, would this death by nuclear bomb possibly create such trauma that he would not be able to be harvestable at the end of the cycle? That was specifically my question.

Ra: I am Ra. This is incorrect. Once the healing has taken place the harvest may go forth unimpeded. However, the entire planet will undergo healing for this action, no distinction being made betwixt victim and aggressor, this due to damage done to the planet.

[APeacefulWarrior]

Depending on the vibrational discrepancies of the entities involved the "millions on years" could be perceived by the positive entity as mere seconds once returning to the 3rd density physical body consciousness.

That's a very good thing for folks to keep in mind. Time, such as it is experienced, is MUCH different on the other side. One of my favorite examples of this is when someone asked Ra how long until his next opportunity at 7D Harvest, he said he "only" had about 2.5 million years left.

I get the strong impression (backed up by the difficulties he often had expressing timespans) that anything he said relating to lengths of time in higher densities was an extremely loose translation, and probably doesn't correspond very well to how those spans of time are subjectively experienced. But, since people kept asking for specific numbers, he gave it his best shot.

[Billy]

This and the part about a mind/body/spirit complex dissolving due to nuclear power have never sat well with me.  They are just unthinkable for me.  I know that everything is experience but I draw the line at the Creator losing a portion of itself as well this whole being sucked into negative time/space business.  No thank you.

You know, I've seen people mention the whole thing about being "disintegrated" by a nuclear bomb, but I can't find anywhere in the materials that Ra specifically said that.  Is it something Seth said, or something like that?  A couple comments Ra made in Session 26 would seem to suggest that while it's an extreme form of death which would require much healing, a nuclear blast still wouldn't cause anything to be lost or the destruction of an entity\spirit:

Don mentioned it in question 68.12, however, after just now looking for it, I wasn't able to find Ra specifically stating it either.  I do remember though Ra talking about one of the services they provided to our planet was to make sure that no entity was lost after the nuclear bomb was dropped in Hiroshima, which if I recall correctly they said they were successful in doing.

Scratch that, I found the passages:

26.21 Questioner: Then what you did, I am assuming, then, is to create an air of mystery with the UFO phenomena, as we call it, and then by telepathy send many messages that could be either accepted or rejected under the— following, of course, the Law of One so that the population would start thinking seriously about the consequences of what they were doing. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is partially correct. There are other services we may perform. Firstly, the integration of souls or spirits, if you will, in the event of use of these nuclear devices in your space/time continuum. This the Confederation has already done.

26.22 Questioner: I don’t fully understand what you mean by that. Could you expand a little bit?

Ra: I am Ra. The use of intelligent energy transforming matter into energy is of such a nature among these weapons that the transition from space/time third density to time/space third density or what you may call your heaven worlds is interrupted in many cases.

Therefore, we are offering ourselves as those who continue the integration of soul or spirit complex during transition from space/time to time/space.

26.23 Questioner: Could you please give me an example from, let us say, Hiroshima or Nagasaki of how this is done?

Ra: I am Ra. Those who were destroyed, not by radiation, but by the trauma of the energy release, found not only the body/mind/spirit complex made unviable, but also a disarrangement of that unique vibratory complex you have called the spirit complex, which we understand as a mind/body/spirit complex, to be completely disarranged without possibility of re-integration. This would be the loss to the Creator of part of the Creator and thus we were given permission, not to stop the events, but to ensure the survival of the, shall we say, disembodied mind/body/spirit complex. This we did in those events which you mention, losing no spirit or portion or holograph or microcosm of the macrocosmic Infinite One.

Given permission from who exactly?  Sounds strange that Ra would need to ask for permission to prevent a m/b/s complex from becoming so disarranged that it can't be 'put back together'.  It almost sounds like there would be cases where such a thing would be permissible, although maybe I have misunderstood. 

[APeacefulWarrior]

Sounds to me, then, that there IS basically a safety-net in place. ie, it might be theoretically possible for a nuclear bomb to annihilate a spirit, but the deliberate activities of other positive entities will work to ensure this never actually happens. Which would just be the Creator self-adjusting to ensure nothing is ever lost despite our best attempts at doing incredibly unwise things.

[Ashim]

Given permission from who exactly?  Sounds strange that Ra would need to ask for permission to prevent a m/b/s complex from becoming so disarranged that it can't be 'put back together'.  It almost sounds like there would be cases where such a thing would be permissible, although maybe I have misunderstood. 

Ra: This Council is located in the octave, or eight[h] dimension, of the planet Saturn, taking its place in an area which you understand in third-dimensional terms as the rings.

[Dog Star]

imo one can lose part of one self by such an event (memory wise), but the awareness itself is eternal and belongs to the One and All

[Minyatur]

To be honest I really doubt that event took place at random and probably is just yet come to happen.

Carla is probably drawn to negative densities on a soul level for her own reasons and will probably come to manifest this fully one way or another when her desire has a strong enough direction. Doesn't need to be done from a 3D incarnation either, and I doubt this kind of choice can even be made from a 3D personality so much, the person would probably have to be in a state where the true self is channeled into the free will of the choice.

[anagogy]

This and the part about a mind/body/spirit complex dissolving due to nuclear power have never sat well with me.  They are just unthinkable for me.  I know that everything is experience but I draw the line at the Creator losing a portion of itself as well this whole being sucked into negative time/space business.  No thank you.

Like many topics, I think there were significant distortions in salient aspects of these two topics due to the clinical and detached way Ra approached all subjects.

What Ra called disintegration of the mind/body/spirit by nuclear explosion could also be termed, just as accurately, as: "returning rapidly to the creator".

Keep in mind other things Ra has stated:

"There is no loss."

"The dissolution into nothingness is the dissolution into unity, for there is no nothingness."

Lucky bastards! (i'm half joking)

[AnthroHeart]

I'm not quite ready to go home yet to Creator. I had thought that death by nuclear was painless because it was instantaneous.
Too much fun to be had in the upper densities, and not ready to lose my identity.

[Minyatur]

Too much fun to be had in the upper densities, and not ready to lose my identity.

Is that not the same grand reason we all are as individuals?

[Steppingfeet]

Why did Tom Hanks' character have to spend years alone on that deserted island before he found a way home? The incident that landed him on that island happened in a heartbeat, right? His FedEx plane malfunctioned and crashed in a matter of minutes, yet he was stranded for years and lost the love of his life in the process. (Reference: the movie Castaway.)

Or what of the mistake in the hospital that, in a moment, switches a baby at birth and the subsequent lifetime journey for the child to find its way to its original/true mother?

Or any tale of someone being separated from home by accident or design and having a long, sometimes arduous return journey that may involves travel through many lands and experiences?

I think it is a matter of geography, you might say. Whether of time/space or space/time or both, the negative entity was attempting to deceive Carla's soul into entering a realm that was far, far from home. The negative entity didn't purchase a roundtrip ticket for Carla. It was one-way only. And once there, the soul known to us as Carla would have had a very long return journey home. A journey that, according to the workings of evolution through the densities, would have required her not only to physically/metaphysically move over various terrain, but to actively learn and embrace the polarity of that terrain in order to successfully move through it.

It was the single greatest risk of the Ra contact, one of the aspects that makes me raise a skeptical eyebrow any time someone claims that they are channeling "Ra."

I'm not one for hyperbole unless attempting to be funny, but I think it quite reasonable to say that the magnitude of this thing . . . the lack of even flinching on her part . . . a depth of courage and bravery not even the lion knows . . . makes Carla's sacrifice one of the greatest acts of heroism this planet has ever known. Period.

Though, she won't be getting a posthumous medal any time soon as the majority of the world would not recognize it as such. Making it an even purer sacrifice, actually; one not for the aggrandizement of self, but one motivated by a very finely tuned and purified desire to serve.

RA: This particular instrument was not trained, nor did it study, nor worked it at any discipline in order to contact Ra. We were able, as we have said many times, to contact this group using this instrument because of the purity of this instrument’s dedication to the service of the One Infinite Creator and also because of the great amount of harmony and acceptance enjoyed each by each within the group; this situation making it possible for the support group to function without significant distortion. 94.9

Jim: As I was recording Session #68 from the Ra contact this evening [for the audiobook project] I became very emotional at the end. This was the session where Don questioned Ra about Carla's nearly going into trance during a Sunday night meditation and nearly being led away by our negative polarity friend. The tears flowed powerfully because this session reminded me once again how much of a spiritual warrior Carla was in being willing to do whatever was necessary to be of service to others. She was that way all her life and this session underlined her unbreakable resolve to give of herself until all was given. - The Camelot Journal, June 8, 2015

[sjel]

imo one can lose part of one self by such an event (memory wise), but the awareness itself is eternal and belongs to the One and All

Nothing is lost! (:

[Infinite Unity]

Nuclear bombardment does not annhilate the time/space analog m/b/s. It is such a shock to the totality of the racial mind. That it causes all the m/b/s to go into such a state of fear, that not even 6d brings cannot communicate with them. After some time usually the totality will calm down enough to be reached. Then it is there free will what happens.

[Infinite Unity]

The whole universe is like a hive mind with sub minds or portions that are distorted/confused. So truth is always moving. Or its closer to state that truth is nothing but a lie. Except the law is one