2015.11.21 Opening our heart to the refugees
04-21-2016, 11:39 AM,
#31
RE: 2015.11.21 Opening our heart to the refugees
I just don't see the logic in that those who are doing the warmongering and humans rights violations are the ones who want to come to western countries. Why would they leave somewhere that is desolate and where it's a way of life to take advantage of people, to move somewhere where we actively try to prevent these things? It just seems obvious to me that those who want to take advantage of a broken system will stay where the system is most broken, and those who want a better life for themselves and their children are the ones who are attempting to flee to the countries that they believe are less corrupt.

If you can rape and murder in Syria with no consequences, why would you try to come to America where we will lock you up and potentially rape and kill you back? Seems illogical to me.

Quote:In the meantime, I am sure native western citizens appreciate the unwarranted risks and obligations imposed on them by the uninformed compassion you advocate. As if most of those millions of migrants are genuinely war refugees, and as if the west is the only safe haven for them.

I'd much rather accept the risks of "uninformed" compassion than accept the risks of a lack of compassion.
There is no magic greater than honest distortion toward love.
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04-21-2016, 01:54 PM, (This post was last modified: 04-21-2016, 01:55 PM by earth_spirit.)
#32
RE: 2015.11.21 Opening our heart to the refugees
http://img-10.onedio.com/img/2r0/53a41dc86f1383e9478d1924.gif
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04-21-2016, 04:20 PM,
#33
RE: 2015.11.21 Opening our heart to the refugees
This is fourth density. The name of the game is "uninformed compassion". Once we start moving into 5th density we can start worrying about a lack of wisdom. Right now, we need compassion. And too much wisdom without a strong foundation of compassion is a path that I want to avoid. The compassion will be informed, in time, but right now, the act of simply opening the heart chakra is what is most important for most of the people incarnated right now, informed or not.
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04-21-2016, 05:27 PM, (This post was last modified: 04-21-2016, 05:28 PM by Night Owl.)
#34
RE: 2015.11.21 Opening our heart to the refugees
You are the one who taught me this. I understand it now being way more balanced toward wisdom that it is almost useless on earth to be the wisest of man to help others. I still value wisdom as much but I think it is more useful to help oneself. When it comes to helping others it really is only about love, compassion and green ray opening. Those who seek wisdom are gonna ask anyway and share between those who seek wisdom as well. But wisdom is rarely the solution for helping others. Only those who have already obtained a certain amount of inner wisdom will benefit from it.

Yet I feel sometimes helping someone who already has wisdom with love will have the same result. I guess intuition is required to decide which one is of a better service on each situations.

The creator is on both sides of the mirror but it's essence lies in the reflection itself. Dive within and it shall be reflected through you
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04-22-2016, 04:40 AM, (This post was last modified: 04-22-2016, 08:18 AM by YinYang.)
#35
RE: 2015.11.21 Opening our heart to the refugees
earth_spirit Wrote:Why are there war refugees in the first place?

Media Coverage of Europe's Migrant Crisis Ignores Root Cause: NATO

American aggression has now led to the possible destabilisation of their NATO allies.

Quote:Ra: Although there are no mistakes, there are surprises.

I didn't really want to turn this discussion into a political one, but your question warrants a response.

I think this is a necessary catalyst for Europe, to start questioning their alliances, and hopefully proceed with the work of restitution.

Quote:Ra: I am Ra. Healing is a process of acceptance, forgiveness, and, if possible, restitution. The restitution not being available in time/space, there are many among your peoples now attempting restitution while in the physical.

Whenever the US uses the word "liberate", the world shudders, because this is usually the end result:

[Image: conference_syria_3.jpg]

Cause and effect... you requested a little bit of wisdom.

Quote:Ra: Love is the great protector.

Europe is being faced with a choice, it can go either way... only time will tell. A choice between fear or love. To turn the victims into perpetrators speaks of lack of wisdom.

Generalization and bigotry needed when reporting:





Quote:Ra: Those seeking intelligent infinity through the use of service to self create the same amount of power but, as we said, have constant difficulty because of the concept of separation which is implicit in the manifestations of the service to self which involve power over others. This weakens and eventually disintegrates the energy collected by such mind/body/spirit complexes who call the Orion group and the social memory complexes which comprise the Orion group.

It should be noted, carefully pondered, and accepted, that the Law of One is available to any social memory complex which has decided to strive together for any seeking of purpose, be it service to others or service to self. The laws, which are the primal distortions of the Law of One, then are placed into operation and the illusion of space/time is used as a medium for the development of the results of those choices freely made. Thus all entities learn, no matter what they seek. All learn the same, some rapidly, some slowly.

I think we are starting to see possible manifestations of this disintegration...

These are geo-strategic and resource wars, and Islam is used as the scapegoat. If it was about liberation, human rights and overthrowing oppressive regimes, Saudi Arabia would be the first target, but of course they preserve American interests, so they're an ally and they're safe... the hypocrisy is staggering.

And that no-one has ended up at The Hague after the "weapons of mass destruction" lie, also boggles the mind...a million+ dead Iraqis later. That's genocide and a war crime.

Quote:http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/issues/2008/2008_0927.aspx

Quo:
Due to the natural tendency of those upon a certain path to incarnate in bunches, shall we say, you have before you now a large group of entities who have worked together, always fighting for position, but bearing enough amity towards each other to conspire to control the population of your planet and to bend all things to their will.

They have done this before. These entities have been faces at the banquet in Babylon, in Rome, in the Holy Roman Empire, in the Third Reich, and now. There are other cycles of service-to-self entities in other cultures and those who rode with Genghis Khan ride now within your eastern countries such as China, Korea, Japan, India and Pakistan, Israel and Syria. The list can go on.
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06-20-2016, 03:00 PM, (This post was last modified: 06-21-2016, 09:49 AM by YinYang.)
#36
RE: 2015.11.21 Opening our heart to the refugees
Spain: 10,000 march for refugee rights in Barcelona

Around 10,000 protesters marched in Barcelona on Sunday, calling on Spain and the European Union to open their borders to refugees. Protesters marched through the streets holding banners reading "The world belongs to everyone! Open the borders!" and "No more death on the borders," while others carried effigies depicting various European leaders, including German Chancellor Angela Merkel and acting Spanish PM Mariano Rajoy
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Ankh
03-04-2017, 01:17 PM,
#37
RE: 2015.11.21 Opening our heart to the refugees
@earth-spirit

Allow me an open word:

I am simply shocked by the display of non-compassion and, in my opinion, non understanding!
Since its been a while this thread was written, i Hope things have changed a bit meanwhile.

i live in germany, people here are starting to get nervous with all the immigrants.
I just don't really understand why.
The number is still very small.

Apart from that, whatever the reason to leave their homes might be for the refugees.
They have no home anymore, they have no perspective, they leave everything behind, everything.

We still spend billions each months for saving banks, can we honestly say we dont have enough to save human beings?
And why should a human being not move where it wants, live where it wants to live?
This is as much their Country and Planet as it is mine.

Some will integrate, some wont, just as some Germany arme integrated and some arent.
Some are nice people, some are idiots, they will make friends quickly with all the other idiots here Wink
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03-04-2017, 01:21 PM,
#38
RE: 2015.11.21 Opening our heart to the refugees
I open my heart/Love to the ones that will accept it, to where it makes the biggest difference, and to where it will help the most.
I can't really know who it is going to.

Reality is absolutely infinite. We are God veiled.
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03-20-2017, 07:28 PM,
#39
RE: 2015.11.21 Opening our heart to the refugees
(03-04-2017, 01:17 PM)Agua del Cielo Wrote:  @earth-spirit

And why should a human being not move where it wants, live where it wants to live?

There are many forms of enslavement. All enslavement is STS. One form of enslavement is when a person exploits social programs to force another group to support them. Or when a government decides that its citizens must labor to care for individuals against the will of its own people. Taken to the extreme this enslavement will result in the collapse of the host country. Even in 4D we know that 4D STO planets take part in psychic wars. In fact they are the primary combatants because 5D is too smart to fight at all. 4D STO realizes they cannot just give into being colonized by STS because they'll lose their identity and ability to be of service.

The same applies in 3D. You cannot naively accept unlimited numbers of people to exploit your social programs, especially if you know their culture is heavily biased against your inherent values. It's an act of self-annihilation and martyrdom. Ra clearly warns against becoming an martyr. Truly opening yourself to love means you don't need to paint the object of love as a saint or victim. You can see them for what they are, good and bad, and love them anyway.

That being said you can still extend compassion and aid to those who are in desperate need. I think the most effective solution would be to accept our culpability in enabling a criminal imperial government to destroy the middle east and then direct aid to help rebuild what we ruined. That would be the most practical way of loving people.
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jeremy6d
03-21-2017, 10:40 AM,
#40
RE: 2015.11.21 Opening our heart to the refugees
Quote:One form of enslavement is when a person exploits social programs to force another group to support them. Or when a government decides that its citizens must labor to care for individuals against the will of its own people. Taken to the extreme this enslavement will result in the collapse of the host country.

I disagree, but do you have any examples?

Did you read the Q'uo channeling?
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03-21-2017, 02:28 PM,
#41
RE: 2015.11.21 Opening our heart to the refugees
(03-21-2017, 10:40 AM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote:  
Quote:One form of enslavement is when a person exploits social programs to force another group to support them. Or when a government decides that its citizens must labor to care for individuals against the will of its own people. Taken to the extreme this enslavement will result in the collapse of the host country.

I disagree, but do you have any examples?

Did you read the Q'uo channeling?

I have read the Q'uo channeling and I agree with its Spirit but perhaps not with its implied course of action. I take very seriously the caveat before any channel that you must filter the message through your own understanding and discernment.

Maybe all I'm trying to say is there is a lot of room to disagree on this issue with a loving heart. I see where you're coming from and it's beautiful, warm, hopeful place. I like that. I just hope you can see I'm coming from a place of love as well.

I think a simple analogy would be welcoming a homeless person into your home. This can be a wonderful act of compassion. It could also in some cases be a poor idea pragmatically speaking. You might endanger your kids or yourself. You could also live your life in terror of homeless people which would be quite a heavy distortion to carry and welcoming a homeless person might help both you and the homeless person. You could also get wrapped up in "saving" the homeless person from distortions which they are actually seeking. I don't think there is a one-size-fits-all solution here. All I know is that it would certainly be unloving to shame other people into taking homeless people into their homes. I think love in 3D has more to do with beingness than doingness. Once you get into the doing sphere you are walking in the realm of wisdom.
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03-22-2017, 04:28 AM,
#42
RE: 2015.11.21 Opening our heart to the refugees
(03-21-2017, 02:28 PM)Spooner Wrote:  I think love in 3D has more to do with beingness than doingness. Once you get into the doing sphere you are walking in the realm of wisdom.

I disagree. Daddy Ra said that "to a mind/body/spirit complex which is starving, the appropriate response is the feeding of the body. You may extrapolate from this." In the same quote they mention what you're touching upon here by saying "that the green ray response is not as refined as that which has been imbued with wisdom. This wisdom enables the entity to appreciate its contributions to the planetary consciousness by the quality of its being, without regard to activity or behavior which expects results upon visible planes." Note that compassion imbued with wisdom does not expect results upon visible planes, but that the appropriate action in regards to the one who is starving is feeding this person and not wondering whether one is interfering with this person's lessons about starvation like Don perhaps assumed when asking Ra about this. The same goes with refugees situation imo when extrapolating this question.
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03-22-2017, 08:16 AM, (This post was last modified: 03-22-2017, 08:41 AM by jeremy6d.)
#43
RE: 2015.11.21 Opening our heart to the refugees
Spooner Wrote:You cannot naively accept unlimited numbers of people to exploit your social programs, especially if you know their culture is heavily biased against your inherent values.

I agree, but this is the logic of imperialism, as you pointed out here:

Quote:I think the most effective solution would be to accept our culpability in enabling a criminal imperial government to destroy the middle east and then direct aid to help rebuild what we ruined. That would be the most practical way of loving people.

Western nations have erected a global system of neoliberal economics that thrives on the ability to move capital at will but keep labor trapped within made-up borders. At what point are those social systems not simply something we did right for ourselves, but instead a kind of excess we enjoy at the expense of the third world? Isn't it the borders, those made up lines on the map, that make any of this inequity comprehensible and thinkable at all? And aren't the institutions that create these conditions based on documents and principles "of no authority?" Smile

I would prefer that we naively accept unlimited numbers of people because I hold the naïveté is with those who think our present system can possibly continue like this. As Eisenstein says in The More Beautiful World Our Hearts Know Is Possible, there are no practical solutions to our problems anymore--or rather, there are plenty of practical solutions but no political mandate to act upon them and therefore no reason to see our institutions behave in any manner we'd approve of, either way.

That means we have crossed the threshold into the impractical solutions by necessity, leaving behind everything that we think of as "practical". Indeed, I'd argue we're headed straight for a global situation where clever political arrangements that placate people--and make the inequities of our system stable--are breaking down. It's not going to be a matter of doing the smart vs. the naive thing; it's going to be a matter of doing the open-hearted naive thing vs. the close-hearted naive thing. While I sometimes wish I had more political agency in this matter, in the end I have all the agency I require to make use of this third density experience.

To folks on all sides of this question: consider the notion that we as individuals have next to zero say on this policy matter in the first place. Taking in all the refugees, as some in this thread suggest, is no more possible for us than changing the foreign policy as you suggest, Spooner. Given that none of us has any leverage in the institutions making and executing these decisions, who cares if we can individually think up the right total solution to the problem in some abstract, intellectually satisfying sense? We didn't start the fire, and we certainly don't have a big enough extinguisher.

Therefore, it's neither here nor there whether the policies are correct from any perspective; the only question is how we're going to think it, and how that thinking affects our actions. Do we wish to serve, or do we wish to solve the puzzle? I guess there's some symbolic catalyst in considering the matter from the policy perspective, but what we practice and the thinking informing that practice is so much more relevant, isn't it, in the personal drama of incarnation we face?

Jeremy
It is not that love will tell you what to do.
It is that love will tell you how to do it with love.
Q'uo 3/19/06
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Billy
03-22-2017, 08:36 AM,
#44
RE: 2015.11.21 Opening our heart to the refugees
Quote:I take very seriously the caveat before any channel that you must filter the message through your own understanding and discernment

Thank you for saying that. Wouldn't it be tragic if we simply took these reading to reinforce our preconceived ideological biases? How much insight we would miss!

Quote:I have read the Q'uo channeling and I agree with its Spirit but perhaps not with its implied course of action.

I didn't see an implied course of action with respect to policy, though. Honestly, it would alarm me if Q'uo were weighing in on policy matters! I do think there's a tendency among us to draw quick conclusions on how Q'uo's words map to our phenomenal reality. It's not a huge deal except when, as it is here, it gets in the way of clear communication and coming together in oneness.

The only implied course of action I read was to bring all the elements and parties involved in this question into one's heart. Of course a philosophy of oneness would encourage us to welcome all; that should surprise nobody. However, I think the voices talking about the practical problems of free migration are valid. That's why in the last post I tried to draw a distinction between our political agency here and our spiritual agency.

Quote:All I know is that it would certainly be unloving to shame other people into taking homeless people into their homes.

Yeah, I agree. I think the desire to interpret Q'uo's points as a policy prescription comes from the same place as rejecting the interpretation: that the key here is control, through implementing the right policy at the national or international scale. But none of us have that control. What matters is how we react to the situation, not whether we have the right ideological position!

It would be unloving to demand that, because I extend love in a certain way, it is therefore a duty of others to extend love in that way.

Quote:I think love in 3D has more to do with beingness than doingness. Once you get into the doing sphere you are walking in the realm of wisdom.

Totally agree. That's why I'm pointing out that on this matter, few of us are really doing anything but simply and futilely reacting to conditions. It is in focusing on our beingness that we will connect with a broader, more subtle agency that can change this entire situation out from underneath the actors.

Jeremy
It is not that love will tell you what to do.
It is that love will tell you how to do it with love.
Q'uo 3/19/06
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03-22-2017, 11:10 AM,
#45
RE: 2015.11.21 Opening our heart to the refugees
I believe I hear where the other side is coming from. Each person is attempting to balance the distortions in their own life and perspective. I want to thank everyone for sharing their love and perspective.

For those who desire a practical solution: I think if you believe boarders are meaningless and destructive then you really can do something practical about it. You can go to the nearest homeless shelter, ask them who the most needy and trustworthy person is, and invite that person into your home to live. Walls of a house are just another form of boarder. Apply the political inclination to a personal situation. I'm not being facetious. I've done something like this. My brother has done this. My family growing up did this. It's a wonderful learning experience.
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03-23-2017, 08:07 AM,
#46
RE: 2015.11.21 Opening our heart to the refugees
Tim Cast, a journalist, has been doing a series of videos on refugees/migrants in Europe.  He actually went to Sweden and did some on the ground journalism and spoke with a variety of people.  He is currently in France and releases new videos each day.  I highly recommend them.

Here is his channel:
https://www.youtube.com/user/Timcasts
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Ankh
03-23-2017, 11:48 AM,
#47
RE: 2015.11.21 Opening our heart to the refugees
I've just watched his "Last night in Sweden" video and though I like his "a little bit right and a little bit wrong", I am surprised at his "nobody in Sweden trusts the media in Sweden" conclusion. On contrary, I trust our media very much so.

Another thing is that both police, politicians and media explained why the original country should not be mentioned or matter when dealing with crime statistics but he doesn't mention that important point or explanation.

But his videos seem for sure interesting and I will watch some more cause he does have couple of other interesting points. Thanks, Billy! Smile
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03-23-2017, 12:12 PM,
#48
RE: 2015.11.21 Opening our heart to the refugees
Everyone knows that breed of dog has a strong relationship to its predilection to bite. We also know it's not absolute. And it in no way implies we should treat any breed of dog badly or hatefully. But it does matter when deciding what breed of dog you want in your home or around vulnerable children. Yet when you apply this analogy to humans everyone freaks out. It's understandable that there is much fear around distortions towards violence. I get that. But there is also a neutral truth to it. You may ignore it at your own peril, just as you may ignore any fact: such that some mushrooms are poisonous or that some foods are less healthful than others.
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03-25-2017, 02:00 PM, (This post was last modified: 03-25-2017, 02:04 PM by Bring4th_Austin.)
#49
RE: 2015.11.21 Opening our heart to the refugees
(03-23-2017, 12:12 PM)Spooner Wrote:  Everyone knows that breed of dog has a strong relationship to its predilection to bite. We also know it's not absolute. And it in no way implies we should treat any breed of dog badly or hatefully. But it does matter when deciding what breed of dog you want in your home or around vulnerable children. Yet when you apply this analogy to humans everyone freaks out. It's understandable that there is much fear around distortions towards violence. I get that. But there is also a neutral truth to it. You may ignore it at your own peril, just as you may ignore any fact: such that some mushrooms are poisonous or that some foods are less healthful than others.

I think your analogy might be useful in a different light.

While you didn't say it explicitly, I'm going to use pit bulls as the breed in example, because this is probably the most feared breed of dog in our culture. I'm very familiar with this specific scenario because my partner works in dog behavior and frequently works with dog rescues.

It's very arguable to say that the breed itself has a predilection to bite. Statistic can be skewed by any number of seen and unseen factors here. Obviously the discussion is not about that fact, but my point is that it is arguable.

You are right that despite any argument that they are more prone to bites should not imply treating them poorly or with hate. But the fact of the matter is, because the culture of fear surrounds the breed, the breed itself suffers. People use the statistics and argument about the predilection to bite to enable and enact policies which cause undue suffering and a rejection of love towards a breed that can be quite wonderful, especially with families. The way the discussion around pit bulls is framed (particularly by this fear-based attitude) enables the causes of suffering.

There is a factor on the other side of imbalance. Because pit bulls do go through so much suffering because of the cultural narrative, there are people who act irresponsibly in attempting to alleviate that suffering. A pit bull rescue blinded by love might attempt to place an aggressive pit bull in a home irresponsibly in an attempt to help the dog and the breed. The denial of the truth in front of them can, itself, cause undue suffering.

So there is imbalance and denial on two sides of a spectrum. But to me, the narrative of one side is more lacking in compassion than the other. There can be a discussion about the impacts of how we approach this breed and an actual, responsible, and compassionate path forward can be found. But that path forward is not based in the attitude that generates a fear of pit bulls to begin with, no matter how many statistics or anecdotal scenarios can be drawn to support the narrative.

This does not imply that a person who is cautious of adopting a pit bull because of those statistics is acting out of fear and rejection alone. Their desire to protect their family is certainly "proper" and in some cases could prevent more suffering. But the broader argument and narrative around pit bulls is not a simple exercise of caution, and it does perpetuate suffering.

(A note - the discussion is about refugees, not dogs. Some people would say our level of compassion should not vary due to that distinction, but I would like to say that refugees are humans, not dogs, and that this analogy is only regarding the dynamics of the situation, not equating the beings involved.)

I think that the narrative around refugees is similar. There are incredibly complicated dynamics at play in the refugee crisis. Oversimplification on either side helps no one. But one side, to me, seems to operate from fear and rejection, and it attracts and generates more people who fall within that mindset. I very rarely see proposed solutions to reduce the suffering of refugees from those who reject them in their own countries. If there were more focus on compassion for those who are suffering from this side - perhaps even an overcompensation due to the xenophobic people who will naturally be attracted to this side - then it would help bridge the gap between the sides and real solutions for relieving suffering could be proposed.
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03-25-2017, 05:57 PM,
#50
RE: 2015.11.21 Opening our heart to the refugees
^^^ 

My brother has 2 Staffordshire bull terriers and the mum used to tremble with nerves when being stroked and loved around 6 years ago. My brother rescued her from a dog fighting environment and human attention resulted in her feeling nervous and triggered. Her son (one of the litter that my brother held onto) is the most annoyingly energetic dog I have ever met, yet also one of the most submissive. There is no doubt in my mind the positive effect that a loving environment has on traumatised souls. Her name is Sky, and she doesn't tremble with fear when she has her belly scratched anymore.  Big Grin
...the highest wisdom is to suffer all men to have full liberty to think on all subjects in their own way. - OAHSPE  
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Bring4th_Austin
03-25-2017, 06:38 PM,
#51
RE: 2015.11.21 Opening our heart to the refugees
Thank you for sharing Nicholas. I think that's another key point to this dynamic. My heart is so saddened to think about how refugees and immigrants feel when they witness the rhetoric from closed-border nationalists. There is such a sense of rejection and uncaring from that culture, no matter how well-intentioned it can be.

Imagine how powerful a message it sends to say, "Yes, you seem to be different, you have a different culture, you may have different values, you come from a different land and you look different - but we welcome you and want to help you anyways."

Not every single refugee will be moved by such sentiment - in the dog analogy, not every dog with behavior problems can be cured by love and kind attention alone - but such sentiment creates an environment of healing and love which can be extremely transformational for everyone involved.


(I really can't help but feel more than a little uncomfortable in using the analogy of dogs to refugees, but I do think there is truth in the similarity of the dynamics, at least when it concerns the open heart.)
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