11-29-2015, 01:58 PM
Quite the fine example of brutal efficiency by Higher Self if you ask me
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11-29-2015, 01:58 PM
Quite the fine example of brutal efficiency by Higher Self if you ask me
11-29-2015, 02:03 PM
(11-29-2015, 12:10 PM)Aion Wrote: Let me offer this theoretical scenario to everyone in the thread. First, it's not wise to cut down an alley at night in a city. Secondly, if you were a trained martial artist, you certainly would not be walking down that alley (unless you were driven by too much testosterone or trained with ego-driven martial artists of which there are some unfortunately). You would not tell the other person to run because that alerts the attackers that you may be capable of fighting and you lose the element of surprise, and also throws the attackers off balance mentally by not reacting with intense emotion of any kind. You might subtly shield the other person. The attackers being a little drunk makes it easier for the trained martial artist to get them off balance. And that is all you need to do—get them down, then run out of the alley. If I were the untrained person I would dial 911 on my phone. If I had no phone which is unlikely, I would run out of the alley to enlist help. Since it's night there may be no one around. Which brings me back the first thing I said: it's unwise to walk down an alley at night in a city. Regardless, I would not leave my friend, I would look for a way to help my friend.
11-29-2015, 02:19 PM
(11-29-2015, 01:51 PM)The_Tired_Philosopher Wrote: They were on all netflix while my Initiation from the Ra Material was going on, seemed a very synchronistic series of films for me... 'If I could', when there's a will, there's a way. That's how magic really happens. When you choose to defy the obvious and go for the fantastic. To will, To know, To dare, To be silent.
11-29-2015, 02:23 PM
Also, the intention behind the scenario I presented was meant as a self-gauge of intent. To see what the immediate concerns of each are in the face of threat.
I think it is noteworthy that there is not one answer to this.
11-29-2015, 02:53 PM
(This post was last modified: 10-20-2019, 07:41 AM by earth_spirit.)
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11-29-2015, 03:19 PM
I have to point out that I see a lot of fearful thought processes in this thread. The concept of walking down a dark alley at night in a city being inherently dangerous seems almost laughable to me - don't get me wrong, I know assaults can occur and robberies and what not, but these instances are very small. I've spent most of my adult years working "downtown" until late at night in the bar districts, walking to my car alone with wads of cash on me, and I never felt scared or unsafe. I know there are probably a few extremely dangerous metropolitan areas, like Chicago or Detroit, or parts of LA or NY, where lots of seemingly random violence occurs. But in the scenario presented by Aion, you are two people walking down an alleyway at night - I can see how alone might feel scary, but if there are two of you, it shouldn't be just an innately scary situation, IMO. Most cities don't have random violence that occurs frequently enough that one should feel fear to walk at night with a friend.
Also, not to give away the riddle, but calling 911 is the response of someone who is used to "giving away their power". Is calling the cops to intervene really the logical solution? Do you think an officer will arrive before anyone gets hurt, if violence is inevitable? (which it doesn't appear to be in the scenario) Why waste time dallying on your phone? What are you going to tell them - that there are three adults here having a consensual fight?
11-29-2015, 03:24 PM
I believe you saw to the heart of what I was attempting to convey, thank you.
11-29-2015, 03:25 PM
(11-29-2015, 02:49 PM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: "How much can you really know about yourself if you've never been in a fight?" - Fight Club, go watch it (or read it). I have been attacked twice, long before I trained in martial arts. This is one reason I know it's a mindset. Once was in a job with the mentally challenged, and the other when I taught art to emotionally-disturbed teens (most of whom were much bigger than me). There were many almost attacks with those kids as well. I just instinctively knew how to diffuse both situations with my attitude. It is true that most people will freeze, or not do what they think they will do. But let me present another scenario: You are out and about and an attacker approaches. What would you do? Because we have been discussing this we may have an answer. But most people hesitate, not really having a clear response. Now, imagine you are out and about with your small child, or your little nephew or niece. An attacker approaches. What would you do? You would most likely not hesitate with your answer—you would do what it takes to defend the child. This is the first step in recognizing the value of a life. But what I say here is that the same reaction should be for your own life and well-being. And expanding on that, the well-being of the attacker. If you proceed from the idea that all life is sacred, valuable, then you will be coming from a place of love. If you really don't see all life as sacred and valuable, you will be coming from a place of separation, which creates fear.
11-29-2015, 03:44 PM
(11-29-2015, 03:19 PM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: I have to point out that I see a lot of fearful thought processes in this thread. The concept of walking down a dark alley at night in a city being inherently dangerous seems almost laughable to me - don't get me wrong, I know assaults can occur and robberies and what not, but these instances are very small. I've spent most of my adult years working "downtown" until late at night in the bar districts, walking to my car alone with wads of cash on me, and I never felt scared or unsafe. I know there are probably a few extremely dangerous metropolitan areas, like Chicago or Detroit, or parts of LA or NY, where lots of seemingly random violence occurs. But in the scenario presented by Aion, you are two people walking down an alleyway at night - I can see how alone might feel scary, but if there are two of you, it shouldn't be just an innately scary situation, IMO. Most cities don't have random violence that occurs frequently enough that one should feel fear to walk at night with a friend. It's not scary. It's a choice to walk down the alley or not. I do not think anyone should be afraid to do anything. I agree that violence is exaggerated by the media. But an alley at night in a city seems like an unwise choice to me. What's wrong with calling 911? It's absurd to say that's giving your power away. It's a way to avoid conflict. Do you think it would be better to stay and fight two violent drunk guys? It's true that someone might get hurt in the meantime, but if the fight goes on long enough to really cause great harm, intervention by police (who would at least in this instance be providing a service instead of tracking down pot-smokers or writing traffic tickets) might prevent serious injuries. What would you do then? The scenario involved a person who could not fight. To me, it makes sense to find a solution that doesn't involve engaging if you can't defend yourself. Just the energy of making the call might change the situation. Ultimately, we do attract situations to us. This was a theoretical situation that does not take this into consideration.
In this situation, the fight with the other person is the catalyst. Fights can occur on all different levels - physical, verbal, psychological, emotional. If you call an outside authority to handle this catalyst for you, it's not dealing with it directly and basically as good as suppressing it. It's not "different" because it's physical catalyst IMO. To me, the fearful thinking comes from where we see any situation as innately scary, or bad, or dangerous. From my point of view, the situation Tanner presented is lighthearted, with some (assuming) males wanting to scrap. Before video games, this is what boys did for fun (I could reiterate countless stories from my dad and husband from the many fights they enjoyed in their youth). The thought that in every dark alley lurks a dangerous monster who will hurt you (or really I guess the more likely fear/outcome is that you will get robbed - something taken from you) would do well to be alleviated. What if there is someone there who needs help? What if they have a hungry family so they are trying to pilfer your wallet? These are more likely scenarios than random acts of violence.
Diana, I understand where you are coming from, but your experiences of assault are entirely different than the ones presented in the other scenarios. But, even physical injury shouldn't be so scary, friends. We heal. Pain is temporary. Pain is a primary catalyst in this density. We should embrace the pain and transform it with love for it. You are admirable for putting yourself in those situations that were physically dangerous as a way of service. I hope you haven't let those situations that happened stop you from doing what you love. That's the whole point: To not let fear dictate our decisions. When we do, the terrorists win. Sorry for the cliche, but it's acutely true. The most useful tool for any negative entity is to create fear around a situation so that those who can bring light into the darkness back down because of cowardice. It's their best hope and oldest trick in the book.
11-29-2015, 04:18 PM
I would like to note that I offered the scenario as a mirror, intentionally leaving it vague as to make it possible for each to project themselves in to it.
11-29-2015, 04:28 PM
(11-29-2015, 04:01 PM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: In this situation, the fight with the other person is the catalyst. Fights can occur on all different levels - physical, verbal, psychological, emotional. If you call an outside authority to handle this catalyst for you, it's not dealing with it directly and basically as good as suppressing it. It's not "different" because it's physical catalyst IMO. To me, the fearful thinking comes from where we see any situation as innately scary, or bad, or dangerous. From my point of view, the situation Tanner presented is lighthearted, with some (assuming) males wanting to scrap. Before video games, this is what boys did for fun (I could reiterate countless stories from my dad and husband from the many fights they enjoyed in their youth). The thought that in every dark alley lurks a dangerous monster who will hurt you (or really I guess the more likely fear/outcome is that you will get robbed - something taken from you) would do well to be alleviated. What if there is someone there who needs help? What if they have a hungry family so they are trying to pilfer your wallet? These are more likely scenarios than random acts of violence. Oh jeez. It seems the longer I am here, the more I am not communicating well. This was a theoretical situation I would never be in personally. I have taught martial arts. There is advice I give to women who know nothing about higher consciousness or self-defense. The first thing I teach is to be confident—NOT afraid—and to learn good posture and respect for self. Aion's story (if this is what you are referring to) is of martyrdom. There is no way I would let myself be beaten bloody because I would never have let them in in the first place. Not because I am afraid, but because I would intuit that something was up and my main objective would be to avoid harm to anyone. I don't find this kind of martyrdom laudable in the sense that it is advanced or something. I think the body is something under our care. If there are individuals out there that attract each other to a fight, fine. It's not something I want to be of service in, just as I don't want to be of supposed service to factory-farmed animals by eating them. To be beaten bloody in service to others would include MY part in the scenario, which would be whatever I needed to learn from the situation. I already feel love for criminals and perpetrators, so I don't need that lesson. (Witness any of my posts about what I think prisons should be: places of healing where one learns he/she is loved.)
11-29-2015, 04:33 PM
I believe you also have seen the heart of what I was trying to convey.
11-29-2015, 04:35 PM
(11-29-2015, 04:18 PM)Aion Wrote: I would like to note that I offered the scenario as a mirror, intentionally leaving it vague as to make it possible for each to project themselves in to it. In my case, because I have taught martial arts, my response was an objective one. I see that that was what you meant, but I responded generally and not personally because I am trained. To take the role of the untrained person I responded from the point of view of the average person I may have taught myself. From my own experience, I would have to say that I would instinctively know what to do to diffuse the situation even with no self-defense training, because i have done that. No harm is my intention—to others and self.
11-29-2015, 05:31 PM
(11-29-2015, 04:28 PM)Diana Wrote:(11-29-2015, 04:01 PM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: In this situation, the fight with the other person is the catalyst. Fights can occur on all different levels - physical, verbal, psychological, emotional. If you call an outside authority to handle this catalyst for you, it's not dealing with it directly and basically as good as suppressing it. It's not "different" because it's physical catalyst IMO. To me, the fearful thinking comes from where we see any situation as innately scary, or bad, or dangerous. From my point of view, the situation Tanner presented is lighthearted, with some (assuming) males wanting to scrap. Before video games, this is what boys did for fun (I could reiterate countless stories from my dad and husband from the many fights they enjoyed in their youth). The thought that in every dark alley lurks a dangerous monster who will hurt you (or really I guess the more likely fear/outcome is that you will get robbed - something taken from you) would do well to be alleviated. What if there is someone there who needs help? What if they have a hungry family so they are trying to pilfer your wallet? These are more likely scenarios than random acts of violence. I understand what you are saying, I'm sorry if you think a minor difference of opinion means I don't understand yours, but I read your posts and rarely have trouble understanding the point you are trying to convey. But my point is why is being beaten bloody a seemingly inevitable outcome? That's why you see it as a martyr situation. There are any infinite number of outcomes to the scenario. Your friend is trained, how long does it take before the tipsy fighters realize this? Maybe your friend is able to immediately disable them and you (as the projected protagonist in Aion's scenario) have no part in being the hero? Maybe you've picked up a few things from your friend and are able to bluff the antagonists that you are -both- trained, which forces them to move on to pick an easier target. Also, just because there is a physical altercation, does not mean there is always an obvious victim or aggressor. In the scenario, all three parties are ready and eager to go. What seems barbaric (or "uncivilized and savage") is good fun to some, and sport to others. It may not be the most productive outlet of creative energy, but as long as both parties have put up their dukes, it's certainly not the least creative outlet, either. I'm sorry if you feel I'm antagonizing or disagreeing, I'm just trying to explore the riddle without fear-based reactions. I also have to say that the situation is inherently different to see from a female perspective, as physical domination is often the more likely outcome for the female if it's a fight of men vs. women. But I'm trying to keep it in the context of two grown men walk down an alleyway and are approached by two other men who want to interact in a physical manner. 3 out of four are ready to go. To me, in this situation, calling the cops is an infringement, because it is a fear-based, self-preservation action, and your friend already requested for you to leave it under their control. But that's just my opinion and my own interpretation of the events.
11-29-2015, 06:04 PM
(11-29-2015, 05:31 PM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: I understand what you are saying, I'm sorry if you think a minor difference of opinion means I don't understand yours, but I read your posts and rarely have trouble understanding the point you are trying to convey. No worries. It is difficult with words on a page only. (11-29-2015, 05:31 PM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: But my point is why is being beaten bloody a seemingly inevitable outcome? That's why you see it as a martyr situation. This is one place you misunderstood. I was quoting Aion in the story he related earlier in the thread. I did state that my intention is no harm to anyone. Of course being beaten bloody is not an inevitable outcome. (11-29-2015, 05:31 PM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: There are any infinite number of outcomes to the scenario. Your friend is trained, how long does it take before the tipsy fighters realize this? Maybe your friend is able to immediately disable them and you (as the projected protagonist in Aion's scenario) have no part in being the hero? Maybe you've picked up a few things from your friend and are able to bluff the antagonists that you are -both- trained, which forces them to move on to pick an easier target. Also, just because there is a physical altercation, does not mean there is always an obvious victim or aggressor. In the scenario, all three parties are ready and eager to go. What seems barbaric (or "uncivilized and savage") is good fun to some, and sport to others. It may not be the most productive outlet of creative energy, but as long as both parties have put up their dukes, it's certainly not the least creative outlet, either. It may be an assumption that there are 3 parties eager to go. Sport or fun would flow from choice such as getting in an MMA ring or other place where all parties jump in gladly. The trained person in this scenario is presumably not choosing to fight (hopefully, because as I say training in martial arts is to learn to avoid fights), rather to defend. If "boys" want to fight, and they all choose to, that's fine by me. And I agree that there could be endless scenarios unfolding from such a situation. (11-29-2015, 05:31 PM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: I'm sorry if you feel I'm antagonizing or disagreeing, I'm just trying to explore the riddle without fear-based reactions. I also have to say that the situation is inherently different to see from a female perspective, as physical domination is often the more likely outcome for the female if it's a fight of men vs. women. But I'm trying to keep it in the context of two grown men walk down an alleyway and are approached by two other men who want to interact in a physical manner. 3 out of four are ready to go. First, no need to apologize. Disagreeing is fine. It's good and fun to explore concepts, and if we all agreed, how much exploration would unfold? Well, the scenario did not say all men. Even so, my boyfriend has also trained (Wing Chun) and he would not put his dukes up and fight like the "boys." His reaction would be the same as mine—to avoid harm and use his training to do it. (11-29-2015, 05:31 PM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: To me, in this situation, calling the cops is an infringement, because it is a fear-based, self-preservation action, and your friend already requested for you to leave it under their control. But that's just my opinion and my own interpretation of the events. Why is it an infringement if you don't desire to engage in violence? To do so is not necessarily based on self-preservation; it can be based on the concept of "no harm" to anyone. If the attackers need this catalyst, we don't have to be involved. And it doesn't have to derive from fear; it can derive from love. Love of all life and respect for all beings including self. If the friend said to run with the tone that he/she wanted this fight, then my best guess is that I would back away but not leave the friend alone. If the friend said this only to protect me, I would do something else.
11-29-2015, 08:40 PM
Is it fear based to lock your house up before you go out? I don't know if it is completely wise to ignore fear all together and not let it influence your actions at all. Walking through a park late at night, to prove you are not afraid, is not a very good idea if you ask me. I have never been in a fight myself, but I don't think they are exactly as 'innocent' as they are being made to be. From my understanding, there is the very real possibility of serious injury occurring and perhaps even death. Offering that kind of catalyst to someone looking to fight seems counter intuitive, as they will then have to balance that and live with the consequences of such an action. I think it would be better to find another outlet, but that is probably easier said than done.
11-29-2015, 09:27 PM
(11-29-2015, 08:40 PM)Billy Wrote: Is it fear based to lock your house up before you go out? Not exactly. It is fear based to think someone will break into your house, but if locking it up helps you combat that fear, then that particular action is the opposite of fear based. You are using one belief to combat another. You A) believe someone might break into your house and then B) believe locking it will prevent it. If that brings you a sense of security there is no wrong in it. If you had faith in faith itself and your ability to utilize it, you could skip both of those actions and just believe all was well, but it is human and exceedingly normal to have more faith in action, than belief. In reality, the actions are only empowered by our collective faith in them. To most people, that sounds unbelievable and insane. And of course, with that belief, that will be their experience.
11-29-2015, 11:31 PM
What some call fear, I call Reality.
Interesting thread this is becoming lol
11-30-2015, 07:42 PM
For me this is simple. Law making and enforcement. That is how you mitigate against uncivilised behaviour in a civil environment, whether its merciless violence or petty thieving. If we breach the assumed trust that societies allow, then an organised disciplinary mechanism needs to be in place in order to guard against repeat infringements. The point (for me at least) is not to punish the wrong doer or use them as examples by giving a maximum term, rather it is to restrict their free movement in order to limit the harm and chaos they may begin to enjoy creating should our societal boundaries not be enforced (assuming they weren't already).
So taking video footage with the intent of reporting the attackers in this context would be one of my first responses if I was not directly involved. If I was involved (like I have been numerous times in the past) then I would simply position myself into a place where there is room to move. Most folks will gas themselves out after a few minutes of arm swinging so as long as there is room to move around, then I can remain relatively calm and focused. It is no different to a tennis player practising hour after hour, or any other power exploring endeavour, if violence (a primitive form of competition) is offered to you and you have practised the scenario over and over, then you are much more likely to deter the attacker with your calm response, if not your posture. I totally agree with Diane when it comes to empowering a female. If I was a female then I would probably carry an appropriate spray or whistle in my hand bag, unless I was the granddaughter of a Shaolin Master. My mum was a nurse on night shift and was attacked on a train platform. She was alone, so quickly reached for the pen in her breast pocket and stabbed him in the neck. She came home safely to 2 sleeping children. So the impulse to protect others from harm is a natural and loving intention, as is the impulse to protect ourselves, if others are dependent upon us. Also, I would not think twice about moving away from an environment where violent acts were frequent. I simply could not perceive it as a qualitative atmosphere.
12-01-2015, 09:00 AM
(11-30-2015, 07:42 PM)Nicholas Wrote: So taking video footage with the intent of reporting the attackers in this context would be one of my first responses if I was not directly involved. If I was involved (like I have been numerous times in the past) then I would simply position myself into a place where there is room to move. Most folks will gas themselves out after a few minutes of arm swinging so as long as there is room to move around, then I can remain relatively calm and focused. thanks for sharing that Nick. To me, there is quite a HUGE difference between relating to the concept of a possible situation, and actually having to experience it. The former is more about a scenario which can be used as a symbol or a canvas on which to explore various emotional patterns. The latter is about being in the reality of an experience, and then responding to it spontaneously. Many countries have abolished the Death Penalty. So for even the most 'uncivilised savages', the state sanctioning 'death' as an option to deal with them (ie choosing not to deal with them, by removing them from this reality) is not a choice.
12-01-2015, 11:42 AM
(11-29-2015, 06:04 PM)Diana Wrote:(11-29-2015, 05:31 PM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: To me, in this situation, calling the cops is an infringement, because it is a fear-based, self-preservation action, and your friend already requested for you to leave it under their control. But that's just my opinion and my own interpretation of the events. I guess our differences lie in how we interpreted the set up the the scenario. It sounds more like a consensus scrap and less like a random assault. I don't think the "you" in the scenario is in any danger, really. I just refuse to see the fight scenario as an inherently negative thing. I'd rather see two men in a fight club to let out their red-ray energy than two men hunting for sport, for instance. There are a lot of references to people being trained in fighting arts here, in this thread. I don't see how mock fighting is much different than real fighting, save for a few bruises. People get pleasure from using their bodies in a tactile way, especially in competition. Quote:Is it fear based to lock your house up before you go out? I don't know if it is completely wise to ignore fear all together and not let it influence your actions at all. Walking through a park late at night, to prove you are not afraid, is not a very good idea if you ask me. I have never been in a fight myself, but I don't think they are exactly as 'innocent' as they are being made to be. From my understanding, there is the very real possibility of serious injury occurring and perhaps even death. Offering that kind of catalyst to someone looking to fight seems counter intuitive, as they will then have to balance that and live with the consequences of such an action. I think it would be better to find another outlet, but that is probably easier said than done. That's a good question, Billy. But this also begs the question, what are you afraid of? When it comes to locking your house, the fear is of losing some of your property. When it comes to walking late I night, I want to know, what is everyone -literally- afraid of? I mean, who do you imagine is going to jump out in the night? And what are they going to do? Again, steal your property? I just think this thread highlights how much we allow fear-based doctrines to seep into our psyche. It is NOT innately dangerous to walk at night. The possibility/probability chance of a random violent act occurring to anyone is statistically very small, unless you live in an area with extreme urban blight. That is my main point. To change your course of action (ie, avoiding dark alleys at night) because of a one in a million chance, probably literally, that you will be the one who gets assaulted that night, is fear based, IMO. To be afraid of death is a whole nother thing. Do you fear death? I try not to. I try to tell myself, in situations where I feel fear, that, if it's the end of my story to get shot in this dark alley by a random nutcase, that that is just the end of my story in this incarnation and it was probably decided long ago, long before I decided to make the fearful steps into the alley. Same with loss of property. I don't consider all these acts "random". Most of us here are past the point of random catalyst. It's all meant to teach us acceptance and love of loss. If you're afraid of losing, and you vibrationally resonate with that fear, then it is more likely that you will experience that loss, even if it's just vicariously through feeling the constant fear. But, it is better to resonate with gratitude and abundance - that way, even if someone steals your wallet, the universe can balance itself out by offering you recompense in another way.
12-01-2015, 11:44 AM
(11-29-2015, 04:01 PM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: In this situation, the fight with the other person is the catalyst. Fights can occur on all different levels - physical, verbal, psychological, emotional. If you call an outside authority to handle this catalyst for you, it's not dealing with it directly and basically as good as suppressing it. We're never just individuals, though. We are constituent members of a collective. We exist in, and operate as, a collective organism, with different individuals and groupings of individuals performing specialized or generalized functions. While each individual contains the one infinite Creator, and is thus all that there is, no one individual can do everything, as it were. We must necessarily rely on each other's respective services to succeed. For instance, if I have a plumbing issue in my house that is beyond my expertise and means, I call a plumber, someone who does have the ability and means to resolve the issue, and thus a mutual exchange of service is offered. I don't consider it an act of abdicating my power to call the specialist. Nor do I feel that I have avoided the catalyst that would have been mine had I attempted to replace a line of pipe in the wall. Certainly the situations of calling the cop, or the plumber, offer catalyst to process. My only point is that it's not necessarily avoided by the act of seeking outside assistance. It might even be said that such is part of the design . . . Quote:19.13 Ra: Thus, the weakening of the physical vehicle, as you call it, was designed to distort entities towards a predisposition to deal with each other. Thus, the lessons which approach a knowing of love can be begun. Explanation by the tongue makes most things clear, but love unexplained is clearer. - Rumi
12-01-2015, 12:14 PM
That is a good point, and I just used the "giving away one's power" as it is an analogy in this situation, which is also just an analogy. My point of view differs in a few places, however, To me, a cop wouldn't be more skilled at deescalating this situation than my martial arts friend and myself. In fact, I feel like inviting a cop into a moderately violent scenario would increase the likelihood of violence. In this scenario, you aren't avoiding the violence, you are just asking someone else to step in and perform it for you.
As far as the plumbing goes, again, I have a different experience. Soon after we purchased our place we called a plumber to check out a few minor issues. He offered us some exorbitant fees (he was trying to get us to replace ALL of our pipes at a "good price" compared to piecing out little bits of work) but, upon doing a little bit of research, realized that the work that needed to be done was totally manageable by one of us, so we did it ourselves. Of course, this analogy doesn't extend all the way, because if one say, needs brain surgery, they are not able to perform it themselves, but then again one must consider the catalyst that got them to the place where they need brain surgery before having a doctor slice open their skull does anything to alleviate the situation or prevent it from happening again.
12-01-2015, 02:43 PM
(12-01-2015, 12:14 PM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: That is a good point, and I just used the "giving away one's power" as it is an analogy in this situation, which is also just an analogy. My point of view differs in a few places, however, To me, a cop wouldn't be more skilled at deescalating this situation than my martial arts friend and myself. In fact, I feel like inviting a cop into a moderately violent scenario would increase the likelihood of violence. In this scenario, you aren't avoiding the violence, you are just asking someone else to step in and perform it for you. The cop signed on for this very thing. His/her job is to handle situations like this. It isn't necessarily that a cop would do a better job at managing the situation so no one would get hurt, it's that they consciously accept the job of doing so. This makes a cop a better choice for me given the situation as it was suggested. The addition of law enforcement might take the energy out of the fight just by showing up. Just because one calls the cops does not mean they are avoiding catalyst, or asking someone to fight their fights. I don't accept that I have a fight to fight. If I came across a situation like this, my lesson or attracted catalyst could mean any number of things other than fighting because an opportunity presents itself. However, rereading the question of the imagined scenario, I can see how you would have interpreted it to mean the martial artist friend wanted to fight. Because, on second thought, the friend and I could both just try to run away. The perps were drunk so running out of their reach probably wouldn't be difficult. I personally cannot imagine wanting to actually fight with another person. Being in a martial arts studio is completely different as there is (usually) no full contact (this is part of learning control which is necessary if you aren't going to hurt someone more than is necessary to defend yourself). So it can be a lot of fun to play around in mock fights. But if you have ever seen a real fight in person, for whatever reason, and I'm not talking about a bar fight where it could said it's just alpha males blowing off steam, then you will possibly know how awful it is to hear punches connecting with flesh and harm being done to an other-self. (12-01-2015, 12:14 PM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: As far as the plumbing goes, again, I have a different experience. Soon after we purchased our place we called a plumber to check out a few minor issues. He offered us some exorbitant fees (he was trying to get us to replace ALL of our pipes at a "good price" compared to piecing out little bits of work) but, upon doing a little bit of research, realized that the work that needed to be done was totally manageable by one of us, so we did it ourselves. Of course, this analogy doesn't extend all the way, because if one say, needs brain surgery, they are not able to perform it themselves, but then again one must consider the catalyst that got them to the place where they need brain surgery before having a doctor slice open their skull does anything to alleviate the situation or prevent it from happening again. This (the plumber scenario) is more about discernment (not being taken in by unnecessary charges), and taking responsibility to do things oneself. On the other hand, I have no problem paying for services, because my time is better spent elsewhere. I'd rather be writing or working on business or personal projects than doing a job someone else is trained for and can easily do. This is dependent of course on affordability. As for the brain surgery, I agree that meditation on it's presence is warranted before letting doctors cut your head open. But many people have their beliefs rooted in allopathic medicine, and have no notions of metaphysical causes. It's like the woman who keeps ending up with an abusive man—she will continue to be a victim until she realizes that she is making choices though perhaps not consciously. She may even realize the gift every one of those men was, and that they in turn learned from her, and possibly they contracted to do this very thing. This all will depend on the levels of awareness and openness.
12-01-2015, 04:32 PM
Quote:I personally cannot imagine wanting to actually fight with another person. Being in a martial arts studio is completely different as there is (usually) no full contact (this is part of learning control which is necessary if you aren't going to hurt someone more than is necessary to defend yourself). So it can be a lot of fun to play around in mock fights. Again, I think you are assuming there is a victim and an aggressor. Two people can have a consensual fight. Yes, injury can occur during their spar. There are many "hobbies" people have that cause injury to self. For instance, dancing. Let's take the example of a dancer getting hurt during their hobby - would anyone tell them to stop doing it because it's barbaric? Because someone else can't stand the thought of the sound of flesh being injured, another person must make the same decisions regarding their safety as they would? Most people would laud the dancer and encourage them to return to their craft - even after multiple injuries. I fail to see how this is different than two men (or boys) willing and eagerly engaging in a test of physical strength. You may feel it's barbaric, and it is to the extent that any competitive sport is barbaric in that one is trying to be the overpowering victor over the other. I just fail to see how it's different than other sports or hobbies that involve physical exertion and endurance. The difference between a mock fight and real fight isn't much, except that in a real fight, getting really hurt is an option. But you can't ever truly test your own strength in a "mock" fight, can you? It's like, you can train on a treadmill and run miles a day, but you won't really test yourself until you get out and run on real terrain - and after you do, you better bet you're gonna be sore! Boxing, MMA, UFC, etc. are all proof that people enjoy a good fight - watching or participating. And with all this paid and "real" fighting going on (I'm assuming that's what you mean by a real fight), very very rarely does anyone actually get seriously hurt or killed, by people who are trained professionals in fighting. Personally, I find it hard to even enjoy football, and would never choose to watch an MMA fight or anything like that, but I can't fault others for what they enjoy doing, most especially when everyone involved has (consciously) agreed to participate. As an aside, as I was finishing up this post I realized why this concept of being afraid of strangers in the dark is so acute to me, and it's because I had an experience just a few months ago of a similar vein. Not entirely, of course. Colorado Springs has an immense homeless population - first, we have good services for them, second, there's a high veteran population anyway, and third, there's plenty of public/state/federal land to camp out upon eternally. I take one short hop on the interstate to work, between two exits, and along the stretch where the large homeless camp in town is. So, when I get on and off the interstate on the way to work, I'm used to seeing them, and often give them a couple bucks or other useful things I have on me that they may need. One night, on my way home from work as I'm stopped at the light getting off the interstate, I see a man approaching me, making eye contact. It's not usual for panhandlers to be out at night actually, they prefer the rush hours and the sunshine, and I'm not too fond of when they approach -me-, but I rolled down my window. He looked very beaten down, and started begging. "Please ma'am, I missed all the busses, the busses stopped running, I was trying to get to Pueblo (~30 miles south), but I f***** up and I went and had a beer and I missed the busses, oh man I f***** up, could you please just, could you please just give me a ride down there? Just give me a ride down to (shopping district about a mile away), just please, please. I'll give you money, I'll pay you." It was weird. I tried to protest but I was heading to the grocery store right there anyway. He begged and begged and seemed genuine enough to me. He was obviously drunk and maybe had other mental difficulties, but my previous ex who I lived with for 2 years was a pitiful alcoholic and all I could see was his face, and the been-at-the-bar-too-long sob story just seemed too real. So, I let him get in my car, and he was so relieved. So, I told him I had to stop at the store to get flour to make zucchini bread. He kept saying things like "Oh, I wish I had a wife like you..." and things of that nature, and talking about how good of a woman his sister is to her husband. We arrived at the grocery store and I went in alone, and when I came back out to my car, he was sobbing. Just head in his hands. When he saw me, he regained his composure mostly, and when I offered to listen to what was wrong, he insisted that he couldn't bother me with such things. I asked him where he wanted to go, and he obviously didn't know where. I told him I couldn't take him to Pueblo, maybe halfway, but it's a 2-lane mountain highway at night that I'm unfamiliar with and I just couldn't do it. He was distressed but decided that another mile or so down the road was where he wanted to go. He said he had well-to-do family that lived in one of the gated communities down a dead-end road. He guided me down this road and of course my heart is racing, I'm probably visibly shaking because he is soothing me and calling me sweetheart and angel and thanking me and promising that he's not going to hurt me. He's craning his neck looking for something and all I can do really is pray for myself and him. He finally finds the secluded entrance to this gated community and has me pull over, thanks me profusely, tells me he'll pray for me, opens his wallet and gives me $40. Then he stumbled across the green turf into the night. Now, during and after the whole scenario, I had to keep asking myself - why am I afraid of this man? Because I don't know him? Why would I be attracting someone to me who would want to hurt me instead of attracting someone to me who genuinely needed my help? The situation was definitely frightening, but again, he was begging me for my help with something very minor that I was able to help him with, to tell him no out of fear would go against everything I try to believe and practice. There were many reasons that my warning signs should have gone off. He expressed his desire for me in passing (wanting a wife like me), he was calling me pet names like angel and sweetheart, after he had been in the car for a while I noticed that he had been palming a can of beer against his leg that he had been hiding from me, and other things. I also had more questions - when he opened his wallet to pay me, he had at least 5 $20s - why didn't he call a cab? I gave him a ride that totaled less than 2 miles. I have no idea. He said a couple of things that implied that he had paranoid schizophrenic tendencies or that maybe he'd had more to drink than was immediately apparent. Was what I did smart? No, probably not by general convention. And the thought of going home and telling my husband put my stomach in knots because of the anger and worry that it could cause in him. But mostly, it just made me so angry that I was so scared the whole time. Why are we taught this silly convention of stranger danger? It's f***** up that we all accept that it's okay that we fear our fellow humans just because we aren't intimately connected with them. News and media play a HUGE part in this. This man asked for my help, and my instinct was to -not- help him. But today, I'm glad I did it, because he compensated me more than adequately, monetarily and with catalyst! So I guess what I'm saying is that we are the Creator, we make our own realities. And if we find ourselves in a situation that seems sketchy, we should have faith that if we manage to channel love and light into that situation, then the situation will turn into one of love and light. And when I say calling the cops is giving away your power, it's giving away your power to step up into the situation and use your power to turn it into a situation of love and light - calling a police officer hands the situation over to them to channel whatever they please. I know I'm gonna be doing my best to channel love, so I want to try to handle it.
12-01-2015, 05:17 PM
(12-01-2015, 04:32 PM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote:Quote:I personally cannot imagine wanting to actually fight with another person. Being in a martial arts studio is completely different as there is (usually) no full contact (this is part of learning control which is necessary if you aren't going to hurt someone more than is necessary to defend yourself). So it can be a lot of fun to play around in mock fights. No. What I mean by a real fight is not a sport event which is fine because it is consensual. I mean a fight that ensues because a father is drunk and hits his son, or two brothers with emotional issues fight, for example. (12-01-2015, 04:32 PM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: You may feel it's barbaric, and it is to the extent that any competitive sport is barbaric in that one is trying to be the overpowering victor over the other. I did not say it was barbaric. That is your word. I just want to be clear here and that's why I'm pointing this out. (12-01-2015, 04:32 PM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: As an aside, as I was finishing up this post I realized why this concept of being afraid of strangers in the dark is so acute to me, and it's because I had an experience just a few months ago of a similar vein. Not entirely, of course. You keep mentioning being afraid, and your story exemplifies this. It's good to listen to intuition and be the observer when feeling things such as fear. I must say that on the one hand, it seems really loving that you helped this man. On the other hand, I probably would have listened to the twinges and not done it, and if it HAD been me, the man would not have received the help you offered (I may have called for a taxi on my cell instead). So who is to say what was best? It's an individual thing. I don't resonate with being afraid. I just use common sense and discernment. I also use my intuition and if I get that I should help someone I do, but in my case I don't ignore the twinges of warning. It seems really creepy to me that he would have talked to you in this way, and your reaction could have derived from societal judgments or actual inner warnings. Each case would be individual. But I would not promote to those who come here just to read, that it is a good thing to ignore inner warnings and pick up strangers regardless of them. And again, this is discernment and common sense rather than fear, and a responsibility to readers as they may not understand all that goes into a decision like that. Just thinking out loud here . . .
12-02-2015, 01:05 PM
Quote:No. What I mean by a real fight is not a sport event which is fine because it is consensual. I mean a fight that ensues because a father is drunk and hits his son, or two brothers with emotional issues fight, for example. A drunk father hitting his son is not a fight, it's abuse. Two brothers having an emotional release with a physical brawl would probably count, as again, they are both probably consenting. Also, I've seen brothers have physical fights plenty of times, it's rarely that gruesome, it is more of an physical/emotional release that's actually relatively safe. It makes me sad that you feel that one shouldn't preach blind love and acceptance in the face of fear, but I can understand. But, please don't deny that your decisions would be fear based. You're afraid of something bad might happening, that you might become a victim, which is why you wouldn't help a stranger. The thing I've learned from the Law of One about fear is that, it is what negative entities use to stop positive entities from doing work that would constitute as service to others. I had a man looking me in the eye, begging me for my help. If I let fear tell him no, then it's letting an insidious negative energy win in the war of love and light. The whole point of my story was - what did I have to be afraid of? I mean literally, actually, what was I afraid of? Nothing. Nothing happened to me. I was afraid because of stories told by others. Fears that are implanted that will make us choose the dark energy of refusing to help our neighbors instead of choosing love. Fears that keep our sphere stuck in its 3D thoughtforms. Fears that need to be alleviated, addressed, loved, and released. The fact and logical way of looking at this is that the likelihood of anyone here, let's say here on these forums, getting assaulted by a random act of violence is nil. In fact, it's much, much more likely for the victim of a violent crime to know their attacker. Again, my job and intent here is to dismantle fears, because I do not believe they serve us in away way. To me, fear is the opposite of love. In just about any situation, I can choose to let fear win, or choose to let love win. I will continue to advocate for offering love and service to all, even strangers in the dark. If I end up going the martyr's way of being murdered for my beliefs, my beliefs being that I should offer help to all I hear who ask and of whom I am able within reason, then I suppose it will be my sad but fitting way of demise. And my interpretation of discernment is a little different. I use discernment when it comes to say, offering help to my mother when she asks me, because she has repeatedly proven that she will use me and create ill effects in my life with no remorse. So, I use discernment when it comes to her, to see if the help offered is without of my bounds. But for me to assume the worst of a random stranger who appeared down and out is not "discernment", it's more of a blanket prejudice of those we don't know, or in my situation, prejudice against the homeless/poor, or the assumption that a middle-aged man would be preying on me. Discernment told me that my fears were unfounded in logic and also unfounded when I opened my heart. Discernment also told me that fear was NOT my primary emotion, but that anger towards my unfounded fear was my primary emotion, which has allowed me to begin the long hard work of dismantling this insidious thoughtform.
12-02-2015, 03:48 PM
(12-02-2015, 01:05 PM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: It makes me sad that you feel that one shouldn't preach blind love and acceptance in the face of fear, but I can understand. But, please don't deny that your decisions would be fear based. You're afraid of something bad might happening, that you might become a victim, which is why you wouldn't help a stranger. Well I will deny it because you are wrong here (about me). It's not based on fear and I am not a victim. It's a decision (in this theoretical scenario) that I would base on how and whether I would get involved. That decision would derive from logic and intuition, and would take into consideration many things. This would not take me long, as I would just know what to do in a clump of sorts. I am not fear-free. But I rarely operate from fear. I am very conscious of this in my life. Operating from love does not mean martyrdom to me, in other words, to be of service to others and not to self or an unbalanced version of that. I think there is separation and imbalance in serving others but not self. I don't just help everyone I come across every single time no matter what. For example, friends call or want to get together while I am working (I work for myself) frequently. This is after I tell them over and over and over that I don't deal with personal stuff while I'm working just as they don't at their jobs. They call or text anyway, and most of the time I wait until I'm done working to answer. But if there is a real need, I will drop my work even if I'm on a tight deadline. This is an example of balancing my needs with the needs of others. I am sure this misunderstanding is my fault. I am not making myself clear. This is happening a lot lately. It's as though I am using an archaic language trying to explain things, and I must find a new language. That sounds a bit melodramatic, but it's the closest I can get to describing the challenge I've been having. And by the way, I have helped strangers a lot in my life. (12-02-2015, 01:05 PM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: But for me to assume the worst of a random stranger who appeared down and out is not "discernment", it's more of a blanket prejudice of those we don't know, or in my situation, prejudice against the homeless/poor, or the assumption that a middle-aged man would be preying on me. Discernment told me that my fears were unfounded in logic and also unfounded when I opened my heart. Discernment also told me that fear was NOT my primary emotion, but that anger towards my unfounded fear was my primary emotion, which has allowed me to begin the long hard work of dismantling this insidious thoughtform. No one here has said they assume the worst of a random stranger. You used discernment and made a decision for yourself, so why is someone else's discernment not valid? Please don't tell me my (or other members) discernment is based on prejudice. Are you an activist for factory-farmed animals, freeing them from their cages? I assume you use your discernment with that issue as well, and just because you don't free every animal from suffering does not mean you have a prejudice (in favor of that suffering). Just because I MAY not have helped that person you gave the ride to does not mean I have judged them negatively, it just means I have considered the situation and made a decision based on my own criteria. I have boundaries and one would be that I wouldn't allow someone to speak to me in a way that seemed too sexual. That DOSE NOT mean I think that man talked to you that way, but based on what you said and what you felt it seemed so. However, if you realized otherwise then it was a breakthrough for you. My dear Jade, this was your lesson. Projecting it onto us is not helpful. |
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