suffering

[norral]

so much lately ive been thinking about the suffering occuring on this
planet. when i see the suffering and injustice i get SO SO
frustrated. i want to challenge this thing called suffering to a fight
i want to say to it come out fight like a man you coward and dont
go sneaking and sniveling around causing so much pain without the
possibility of receiving pain back in return.
everywhere u look around u people and countries and the earth
are suffering. and i live in a rich country where our suffering is minimal
compared to what occurs in the poorer places on this planet.
coupled with suffering is injustice the two go hand and hand.
how i DESPISE the two of them . a pox and a curse be placed on both
of them. i hope and pray that suffering suffers and that injustice receives
injustice .
and i know its called catalyst and all of that. whatever its called it doesnt change the fact that it brings pain to sentient beings. just a rant here releasing some of my frustration with what i see going on on this
earth

norral

[fairyfarmgirl]

The best way to ease suffering is disconnect your mind from the concept of suffering. Then begin to Love all that is around you. Suffering is a construction of the mind. That which is constructed requires to be fed... fed with your anger, dismay, rage, sadness, grief, hatred, revenge. All of these "feelings" are of the mind. They are not true emotions. True emotion is in the Heart... it is the space of Love.

The suffering you see for some is their choicing. Choice is of this plane of existence. To ease suffering one must first reside within LOVE. When residing within LOVE as you go about your daily life you ease suffering.

There are micro loan organizations that are committed to eases suffering such as Kiva ect. Also, there are many people in those areas who do much to relieve suffering by giving all that they have to share in community with their brothers and sisters. The western news media is concerned with perpetuating the myth that the Earth is coming to an end. The truth is the Armageddeon has been canceled... We as a Collection Body of Humanity have canceled this.

The mind loves the Media News... It loves conflict. This is what the Mind River does best. The mind knows the cost of everything yet values nothing.

Where there is Suffering simply LOVE. Love Love Love Love Love Love Love... and more Love.

fairyfarmgirl

[thefool]

Where there is Suffering simply LOVE. Love Love Love Love Love Love Love... and more Love.

I second that.

Also we don't extinguish suffering by causing it to suffer itself. This only starts a new cycle of suffering in its own way. In this case the suffering being the sufferer ...

[Monica]

Where there is Suffering simply LOVE. Love Love Love Love Love Love Love... and more Love.

I second that.

Also we don't extinguish suffering by causing it to suffer itself. This only starts a new cycle of suffering in its own way. In this case the suffering being the sufferer ...

Agreed! At the same time, I can understand your venting, norral. I've often thought that, when I leave this planet, I'm going to have a talk with the Logos who designed this system and complain. Since the Creator learns from each of us, maybe if enough of us create the thought that catalyst might occur without suffering, we can create a new reality in which growth/evolution occur without suffering.

I know, it's a radical idea, but I can dream, can't I?

[norral]

exactly Monica, you got where im coming from. at some point me and
God have to sit down and God got some splaining to do. to be perfectly
honest the suffering that i see causes me to be pissed at God.
when i see a little 5 year old girl in haiti who lost a leg in the
earthquake , whose father is blind whose mother is deathly ill it
just burns me. then i see someone like dick cheney that evil
------- who is blessed by his father Satan and it just torques me more.
you got my frustration because u have felt it yourself. i am just being
honest here. the suffering and the injustice get to me no matter what the
reason is for them and God seems to be woefully uncreative to not be
able to create a more compassionate reality in which we can learn or
he seems awfully meanspirited. i mean you look at this reality and you
come to the conclusion that God enjoys seeing us suffer and that just
burns me more. all i can say is ARGH ARGH ARGH. thanks for putting up
with me

norral

[Monica]

exactly Monica, you got where im coming from. at some point me and
God have to sit down and God got some splaining to do.

I'll be right there with you!

We're all sparks of the Creator, right? And the Creator learns from us, right? And we live in an infinite UniVerse, right?

Why, then, would there be a limitation dictating that entities must suffer in order to evolve?

If you and I, mere 3D entities, can conceive of the concept of catalyst existing without suffering (or at least without such extreme suffering as you describe), then why couldn't it become reality? Why must we accept the very premise of suffering?

I agree that LOVE is always the answer to anything and everything, but we're probing deeper here...into the very premise of the 3D experience itself.

[norral]

YES YES YES !!!! you got it u said it beautifully we are probing deeper
here right into the premise of the entire 3d experience. and at that
point that is where we feel this immense frustration . i dont have an
answer but i am in what i would call an existential pain a pain for
which there is no balm. the only thing that would ease it is if God
personally came down and held this whole world in everlasting arms
wiped away all tears, righted all wrongs and essentially placed us
in a whole new reality where there is no suffering. in revelation it
says behold i create a new heaven and a new earth and they shall
be my people and i shall be their God and i shall wipe away all tears.
that i believe is the only thing that will do it for me and that i believe
is what Ra is talking about for the end of 2012. bless us all as we
struggle with our internal battles and bless us that we all arrive safely
on that shore. your responses Monica have helped me a lot
peace love and light
norral

[Monica]

I'm with you, norral!!! Where 2 or more are gathered...,right?

[Turtle]

What if each and every soul who suffers greatly on this planet, TRULY asked for that kind of life before they began the incarnation. What if some of them did it only because they have never experienced great pain and want to know what that experience is like. AND..what if no soul or "god" coerced them into making that decision.

We are infinity..creation and multi-verses are INFINITE...I can imagine much much worse experiences one can go through, that aren't even possible with our laws of physics...and it's all there, if you so choose to experience it. The worst tragedy in my eyes, is in the forgetting that the experience is not "all that there is", and that there truly is infinitely more to look forward to once your own personal hell is over.

Godspeed!

[Monica]

What if each and every soul who suffers greatly on this planet, TRULY asked for that kind of life before they began the incarnation.

I dunno...What is the soul? If the soul asked for it, did the soul take into consideration the 3D personality who is the one experiencing the suffering?

When I say I'm gonna have a talk with 'God' maybe what I really mean is my Higher Self...My Higher Self is essentially 'God' to me, right?

My Higher Self knows all will be well in the end...but I don't while I'm experiencing the pain...so it still sorta sucketh, from the perspective of the personality who is feeling the pain.

I know our Higher Selves asked for growth, for evolution, but did they ask for pain specifically? Or was pain just accepted as a necessary way to achieve the desired growth?

If we mere 3D entities can conceive of a way to experience growth without such intense pain, then might we not create a new paradigm, a new way to achieve the same results but without the suffering? If we did that, would the soul still choose the pain?

What if some of them did it only because they have never experienced great pain and want to know what that experience is like. AND..what if no soul or "god" coerced them into making that decision.

Who conceived of pain in the first place? Who designed the system? Why would a soul desire the experience of pain? Is the soul experiencing the pain? Or just the 3D personality?

If the soul isn't experiencing the pain from its lofty position, then maybe it's the soul we need to have that talk with.

---

The worst tragedy in my eyes, is in the forgetting that the experience is not "all that there is", and that there truly is infinitely more to look forward to once your own personal hell is over.

That too is part of the design...because of the veil. The fact is that most people don't pierce the veil, so have no way of knowing that the personal hell will soon be over and life will be better on the other side. Is this not why religious people long for heaven?

This is why I don't accept the whole "Jesus died for our sins" thing...Jesus was awakened so his one day of suffering, as awful as it was, couldn't have been anywhere near as awful as it would be for someone who didn't have the advantage of knowing it was temporary. Because he was awakened, he knew it was temporary and for a greater purpose, so that had to have eased his suffering somewhat. Sort of like a woman in labor knowing her pain will soon end and she will have a baby, vs someone in pain with no end in sight and no reward for her pain.

But what of those entities who suffer for months or years, with no understanding of WHY they're suffering, and no glimpse of a better reality beyond the veil? Do their Higher Selves really comprehend what it's like? Might this be our task, to go back and report the full scope of the experience, so that we might possibly improve the design of the system? Is it presumptuous to think that we might?

[Peregrinus]

The incarnate state (person, position, life experiences) is selected by the spirit by reviewing the Akash, prior to incarnating, to provide the best possible catalyst for the mind/body/spirit complex to learn the lessons which it so desires to learn. Nothing is random. All is perfect and as it is supposed to be.

Suffering and pain are illusory materials, just props on the stage which we act on.

Your choice to view it a specific way is a catalyst for you. It is up to you to decide what to do with it. What lesson is in it for you? What action will result?

[Turtle]

Maybe when we are in time/space, the vast majority of us desire SO STRONGLY to progress to higher levels that we foolishly/bravely jump back into physical life over and over again in order to progress as efficiently as possible.

ALSO, maybe when we are in time/space, a lot of us are just overly confident that we will remember everything quickly and the life will be easier because of it. And maybe we more often than not end up stumbling and making life harder for ourselves once we are incarnated, because not only did we forget but we have the free will to go down ANY route when here.

The foolhardiness/bravery mention by Ra (or was it Q'uo) of wanderers coming into 3d I think also describes very well the disposition of "native souls" to a planet. It is my opinion that any entity that chooses to incarnate into any reality containing a veil of forgetfulness will seemingly always believe it's plan cannot fail, and underestimates time and time again just how overwhelming the forgetting process is. I personally, will not be incarnating into any physical life that has a veil of forgetfulness after this one is over...and yes I believe I can make that claim while still incarnated because of many reasons concerning the themes of catalyst that have been cycling around in my life, as well as the realization that my strongest passion is to journey to many different worlds without any karmic/emotional baggage to slow me down.

Godspeed!

[fairyfarmgirl]

LOVE requires no pontification... LOL

fairyfarmgirl

[charlie2012]

I agree that anyone who suffers from the illusion of pain and suffering has planned it in detail before coming to this existence. Earth is the true planet of free will, you can live in a mansion and have a butler, be a middle-class worker supporting your family, be kept as a prisoner-miner in the inner planes of the earth (where the real suffering goes on) or starve to death in the so called third world. Would it not be more of a prison if you could not experience this even if you wanted to? If every time you wanted to experience suffering someone would come with a blanket and some freshly baked cookies and tell you everything is okay? We truly need to experience these things so that we can understand life from all possible angles before moving on to the next density. How would you understand suffering if you never experienced it? Afterwards, we can look back at the situation with love, and if we ever come from higher densities to help out in third, we can still understand what these experiences feel like and love them.

Love and light!

[Monica]

We truly need to experience these things so that we can understand life from all possible angles before moving on to the next density. How would you understand suffering if you never experienced it?

Probing deeper, why is there suffering in the first place? Why does it even exist to be experienced?

My understanding is that our planet has more suffering than is common elsewhere. Not all planets are so bellicose. Much of the extreme suffering on this planet is caused by the violence and conquest (STS traits) of the students in this school for juvenile delinquents.

Hence, it seems to me that, while discomfort might be necessary in order to facilitate the reaching upwards and outwards, the really intense suffering isn't necessary for spiritual growth. Many planets, such as Venus, evolved without so much violence and, I would surmise, a lot less of the really intense suffering. So it appears to me that our planet is somewhat of an aberration.

As Wanderers, aren't we here to shine the Light in some small way and thereby do our part to lessen the suffering, whenever possible? Suffering can be a potent catalyst for compassion. In that respect, acceptance is an important part of the process. At the same time, and this might seem paradoxical, I think that accepting suffering as inevitable creates a limitation. I would rather hold to the ideal that suffering can be transcended. I feel that, by aspiring to the ideal of a peaceful planet without extreme suffering inflicted by others, I can do more to help those who are suffering (when appropriate).

As long as we are satisfied and content within our paradigm, we don't ever extend its boundaries. By thinking outside the box, and questioning the very premise itself, we open ourselves to the infinite creative energies of the UniVerse, and fully utilize its holographic attributes.

[Turtle]

Probing deeper, why is there suffering in the first place? Why does it even exist to be experienced?

As far as I can tell...it exists to be experienced because we live in an infinite existence.

Godspeed!

[Cyclops]

If we were to observe and find all of the reasons why suffering happens on earth it would a very long process. Anyways it's too many sessions involved with this concept but here are some that should offer a beginning background.

The experiment of the sub-logos and the nature of evolution with an extension of free will.
Q'uo Special Meditation April 14, 2007

The difference in planet Earth’s experiment is that the sub-Logos chose an experiment which was extremely rich in the full play and travel of free will, so that the veil was quite thick and almost impenetrable. This heavy veiling and full play of free will has resulted in entities turning not to the Creator but to their own intellects and to their own abilities to find solutions to what they perceive as challenges or problems.

In previous experiments, the veil was thinner because there was not so heavy a veiling and there was not so much free will. The nature of third-density entities upon your planet is, therefore, somewhat more primitive or has a tendency to remain primitive longer than on planetary experiments where the veil has been thinner and it has been more obvious to entities, by virtue of the thinning of the veil, that all are one.

In the absence of any hint from the outer world that all entities are one interconnected being, the tendency has been, upon planet Earth during this cycle, for entities to find reasons to separate rather than unite and to disagree and come to embattlement rather than seeking with all diligence for points of commonality that become a consensus for gradual and global change. At this point, we can say that the probability is that your experiment shall, to some extent, be successful.

The outcome which those of negative polarity in higher densities would like to have occur upon planet Earth is that the majority of entities upon planet Earth decide that they are only safe and in proper spiritual alignment if they can live in fear and continuously find enemies to fight in order to express the feelings of winning the day and controlling what is seen as available sources of power, and we mean this not only physically but also metaphysically.

The sub-logos extending a thick veil allowing alot of free-will.
Q'uo Saturday Meditation November 21, 2009

Many are the creations of the Father that have played out their third density in an atmosphere in which there was far less freedom of choice, or to put it another way, far less confusion than in your particular sub-Logos’ version of third density. [In creations] where the veil does not drop entirely, the hints and inklings that give an ethically motivated seeker the ability to make choices clearly are enhanced. However, when there is less of a veil and less true freedom of will, the third-density experience takes quite a bit longer, for there is no intensity to take a test when one knows the answers.

It was this sub-Logos’ choice to create an extremely heavy veil and complete free will. Therefore, as humans attempt to become more fully human and to make ethical choices with clarity and precision, they have no proof that what they are thinking is correct, but only the faith within that believes, against all apparent adverse suggestion, that the universe is indeed a universe of love and that making choices that enhance love and enlarge compassion shall be the way in which power is developed to do work in consciousness.

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The male principle and the empire.
Q'uo Saturday Meditation November 21, 2009

What has ensued has been a ruinous, repetitive series of empires in which the male principle of aggression, protection and control created empire after empire after empire, and as the male principle, uninformed by the female principle, has no idea how to move from empire to love, each empire has crushed itself under its own weight, leaving behind many who suffer, many who die in wars and aggressions, and who then must begin again to build a hopefully more sustainable, balanced society.

It is against this background of that sticky power that builds empires that one can see that the feminine principle would be greatly to be feared, controlled and placed under the heel of the male principle, for the female principle that would balance the aggression, and the reaching is also that principle without which the male principle can literally not live. It is to the female principle that is attracted infinity and eternity. It is to the female body that the ocean of life comes and it is from that ocean of life that the species of humankind is perpetuated. The male principle dies without the acceptance and cooperation of the feminine. Indeed, viewed from that simple physical standpoint, power resides in the feminine, rather than the masculine principle.

On a very deep and usually unconscious level, this is a source of great fear and consequently that which is perceived to be so powerful, so necessary, must instead be reshaped to be weak, submissive, dependant and always under the control of the male principle. Your entire planet at this time is heavily overbalanced towards the masculine principle. It is desperately in need of balance.

Q'uo Special Meditation July 16, 2005

and hearts in fear, in anger, in aggression, and in fear-based actions such as attempting to control resources. The seductive qualities of these energies lie in the simple facts of high second-density values such as those known to the great apes which are that type of second-density vehicle within which each of you now experiences life. These service-to-self oriented entities are well aware that their stated values echo instinctual values of the great-ape body and, in and of themselves, do not trigger a warning to the mind of the second-density body. It is perfectly naturally and entirely instinctual behavior within the great ape to protect the clan and the family, to gather resources that it will need and to defend against those who would disturb it. To awaken into third density itself is the challenge for the consciousness carried by this second-density body.

The consciousness of third density is, by its very nature, not only aware of the self but its instincts are to seek love, to seek to be loved, and to seek to become one. However, by repetitive experiences in empire, your peoples have acquired habits of mind which mitigate against a full awakening into the awareness of self as the choice-making self. And so the tendency of your planetary population has repeatedly been to give its power away to those who are skilled at the processes of creating empire. Therefore, at this time, the plight remains to help those who have been repeatedly a failure at waking up to become a success this time.

The great challenge, then, is to be a force in helping people to wake up without in any way infringing upon their free will. The choice to leave the precincts of fear and to step forward boldly into the unknown territory of unconditional love, release of judgment, and the embrace of all entities, is formidable. The habit of doing so is not there.

Q'uo Special Meditation July 31, 2007

The governments of your people, however, are not at all focused on peace, contentment or compassion. Those in political power have become able to hold the positions which they hold because they have laid aside what they consider to be naive and overly innocent hopes. They have accepted that they cannot be men of complete integrity, in the usual sense, if they wish to serve the state. The organization and arrangement of power is specifically and universally service-to-self upon your planet.

Indeed, my brother, the entities who are in power among your nation-states are focused upon those goals that have been the habitual goals of people in power upon your planet for millennia. Those goals are the goals of your great ape ancestors. They revolve around a love of their family and their tribe. When they have defined their tribe, then they attempt to defend their tribe’s property and acreage and to gather resources so that their tribe may fare well in a world of diminishing resources. They have been in power before, perhaps many times, and have developed the habit of an unceasing thirst for power. And this they shall not yield in order to make room for service-to-others goals such as true liberty, true equality, true justice, and a truly equitable distribution of the resources of your planet.

We ask that you not be overly concerned with the state of the outer workings of your planet. We ask that your concern be to pray that these leaders may be forgiven, for they do not know what they are doing. They will come to dust, as all dragons must. Even now, they are dying. The energy of the old world is weakening and its hold upon the hearts and the minds of ordinary people, such as are gathered in this circle of seeking, is lessening every day.

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here's a whole sessions about the nature of suffering and experience offered to the creator. http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/is..._0212.aspx
Q'uo Sunday Meditation February 12, 1995

Group question: We would like to know why suffering is necessary, and, in light [of the fact] that so many people in the world suffer so much, how is it that suffering is a service either to the people who suffer or to the Creator who watches the suffering as part of Itself?

One of the excerpts from the session.

I am Q’uo, and greet each again in love and in light through this instrument. We have felt a great deal of sympathy for those of your peoples who must move through this third-density illusion fraught with so much that causes suffering, for we know from our own experience the difficulties that are inherent within your illusion. There is no obvious unity which binds all entities in a supportive community upon which to call for most of your peoples. There is instead the seeming fragmentation of all that is unified into the manyness of a creation which seems most of the time to be at odds with itself. We feel a great deal of sympathy for those who are in the midst of famine, of disease, of loneliness, and of that dryness of spirit that turns to bitterness in the view of life. Yet, we are comforted in our feeling of sympathy by knowing that each of these experiences shall make a mark upon each entity which is one stroke of the artist’s brush upon an eternal canvas of complete harmony.

There is the offering of each entity laid at the feet of the Creator by the very nature of the illusion, that which begins and ends, that which you call the life and the death, and each entity shall give over to the Creator the harvest of each incarnation which shall allow the Creator to experience that which has been experience by the entity and so enrich the Creator by the choices made and the joys and sorrows known.

Q'uo Special Meditation October 14, 1992

There will be suffering and confusion throughout this illusion, for it is by such testing that these basic principles are forged in the fire of experience within each entity’s heart. Be gentle with yourself, not expecting too much, yet placing before yourself the goal each day of renewing faith in the fact that there are truly no mistakes within this illusion. There are great puzzles and riddles and experiences of confusion and doubt which each seeker of truth will find placed upon the path and with which each seeker must grapple.

Here's another session with this question..
http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/is..._0902.aspx

Group question: The question today has to do with the situation concerning our planet and all of us who inhabit it. We would like for Q’uo to give us some information concerning the quality of consciousness on our planet when you consider the various wars, diseases, famines and crises that occur on a daily basis as each of us as individuals go about our daily lives, dealing with the various levels of stress of family, work, community and so forth. We are wondering how we as individuals find a centering point, the joy in the moment? How can we really be of service to each other and to ourselves?

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When you read the Law of One you will notice that although there was much harmony on other planets and alot of learning there is always the free will. This free will handed down to earth plus the mixing into many races from other planets to earth has what has contributed to old habits. Although there is much suffering it is only illusory because this is the density of choice where nothing is known. This is what allows some to potentiate the path of the metaphysical lie which is service to self or "the path of that which is not". I had also read before about the unpolarized entities which are the majority on earth and how these entities create unknowingly or knowingly a lot of suffering from time to time as well.