In regards to eating meat

[indolering]

You're exactly right, Monica. We are not our actions or thoughts or feelings. We are infinite Love. We can change at any moment. We are free. We need to remember our true identity. We can do much better than 51% - most of us are too lazy or self-indulgent or mesmerized by our past or present....
I just don't know how to begin explaining my feelings about killing animals anymore...it seems that when real compassion has taken hold of one, then he could no longer justify the unnecessary taking of life. And then the whole phony 'but I need to eat meat to satisfy my nutritional requirements' argument...it's just me, I guess, after 40 years of approaching the One, and watching the world continue it's insane urge to devour corpses, I feel like a mutant sometimes....

[3DMonkey]

That's the dissociation. The meat-eaters tend to gloss over the killing part,

This is precisely what the vegetarians are doing as well. In each person's mind, they are justified.

[Monica]

You're exactly right, Monica. We are not our actions or thoughts or feelings. We are infinite Love. We can change at any moment. We are free. We need to remember our true identity. We can do much better than 51% - most of us are too lazy or self-indulgent or mesmerized by our past or present....
I just don't know how to begin explaining my feelings about killing animals anymore...it seems that when real compassion has taken hold of one, then he could no longer justify the unnecessary taking of life. And then the whole phony 'but I need to eat meat to satisfy my nutritional requirements' argument...it's just me, I guess, after 40 years of approaching the One, and watching the world continue it's insane urge to devour corpses, I feel like a mutant sometimes....

Oh indolering, thank you for sharing!! I agree 100%!

We are mutants! But in a good way. We're transitioning to the density in which living foods are consumed.

For me personally, it makes no sense to go from eating hamburgers, to drinking living nectar. It makes more sense to me that there is a transitional period, and that is what we're experiencing. And just look at how vegetarianism, and even raw vegan, have exploded in popularity!

I just did a search in a large city for veg restaurants and found about 15, all on the same (trendy) side of town! And about half of them were raw vegan! That is mind-blowing! 30 years ago, there was only 1 single veg restaurant, and we had to drive 1.5 hours to get to it!

Who are all these people, and why are they feeling such a pull towards a living diet? It must be part of the transition, methinks.

Thanks again for sharing! I hope you stick around!

---

That's the dissociation. The meat-eaters tend to gloss over the killing part,

This is precisely what the vegetarians are doing as well. In each person's mind, they are justified.

Monkey, by disassociating, I mean using different words to describe what one is doing, in order to gloss over the reality of what is really happening.

Like saying "eating meat" instead of "contributing to the torture and slaughter of beings who feel pain." Or like saying "bought some beef" instead of "bought some chunk of cow carcass." It's choosing to focus on a superficial aspect, while neglecting the reality of what it really is.

The vegetarians aren't doing that at all. We don't use different terms to describe eating plants. I go into my garden and pull carrots from the ground, and tear off lettuce leaves from the plant, and then I chew it up. I have no problem saying that.

When do you ever ever hear someone say "When I bought that burger at McDonald's, I destroyed half an acre of rainforest, and contributed to several years of torture of a cow, and to its last few moments of life in which it was terrified and in agonizing pain. I knowingly did this and I'm ok with it."

[3DMonkey]

I've already said that is an entirely separate topic. That is carrying a separate argument into a discussion about eating.

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The reason being that there is no end to that reasoning, which makes no one outside.

---

I've looked for disgust, abomination, vicious, vile, repel, and hate. Here is all I found.

However, a negatively oriented entity may choose a painful condition in order to improve the distortion toward the so-called negative emotive mentations such as anger, hatred, and frustration. Such an entity may use an entire incarnative experience honing a blunt edge of hatred or anger so that it may polarize more towards the negative or separated pole.

67.27 Questioner: Thank you. In closing that part of the discussion I would just say that if there is anything that we can do that is within our ability—and I understand that there are many things such as the ones that you just mentioned that are not within our ability—that we could do for this particular entity, if you would in the future communicate its requests to us we will at least consider them because we would like to serve in every respect. Is this agreeable to you?
Ra: I am Ra. We perceive that we have not been able to clarify your service versus its desire for service. You need, in our humble opinion, to look at the humor of the situation and relinquish your desire to serve where no service is requested. The magnet will attract or repel. Glory in the strength of your polarization and allow others of opposite polarity to similarly do so, seeing the great humor of this polarity and its complications in view of the unification in sixth density of these two paths.

[Diana]

People on an STO path decline opportunities to feel compassion all the time. It's a matter of where we choose to focus our compassionate energy.

Not everyone chooses to focus their energy on their diets.

It is not DIET we are focusing on, but the unnecessary torture and merciless killing of animals for food. At its best, with humane farmers, it is still killing animals who would otherwise lead natural lives, and who are in pain and fear when dying, and who do not want to die.

To say we are focusing on diet is yet another example of how humans are only concerned with humans, as though we were the only entities important enough to consider.

As a STO individual, I do not decline opportunities to feel compassion. How does one do that? You either feel it or not. Perhaps you choose not to act on it.

[Shemaya]

It would just take away the truth of who I am, if I were believe that eating meat is incongruent with the STO path.

So why does it "take away the truth of who we are" to acknowledge that we're not 100% STO?

I don't think I ever said I was anywhere close to perfect. I'm not even worried about "making the grade" because I think it is one of the big distortions in the Ra material, that causes confusion for seekers.

Who I am, this physical body and genetics is truthfully made of cells that formed from the foods that I and my ancestors ingested, some of which is animal protein. My very body is made of this. I have faithfully walked an STO path for many lifetimes. Truthfully I am physically made of animals,plants, carbon based elements in my physical being. And truthfully I have been on an STO path.

So to believe that eating or my diet is incongruent with my path would be not only untrue, but very unnaccepting of who I am. You are what you eat, and I accept who I am.

Yes Monkey I would agree with you . If someone is judging another's choices in diet , it is not an STO thought.

By that logic, then if you judge the actions of a violent criminal, it's an STS thought.

Or does your logic only apply to diet? And if so, why?

I don't think so, I often feel dysjuncture when I am observing myself judging another. With a violent criminal, I usually immediately start to think about what happened in his childhood, who abused him in the past, what his/ her life was like up to that point.

That's the dissociation. The meat-eaters tend to gloss over the killing part, and say the vegetarians are "judging their choice of diet" but that's not it at all. The vegetarians aren't judging their diet! It's the torture and killing that's being judged.

If the message that I got is based on my incorrect perception, thanks for correcting my perception. But honestly, that's not what is being mostly written and debated in the thread.

It's mostly about the choice of eating or not eating meat, from what I discerned. Whenever the subject of humanely raised livestock came up in the thread, there was no agreement on that from your team, which is a shame, because it is one way to not only increase awareness, but also possibly find some middle -ground and stepping-stones towards a higher vibe, very early 4D planet.

[Monica]

I've already said that is an entirely separate topic. That is carrying a separate argument into a discussion about eating. The reason being that there is no end to that reasoning, which makes no one outside.

That's just it. They can't be separated. In order for me to eat your dog (as you suggested would be ok) I would first have to kill the dog.

Trying to separate eating meat from the killing of the animal, is disassociation. One cannot eat meat unless someone kills the animal.

---

However, a negatively oriented entity may choose a painful condition in order to improve the distortion toward the so-called negative emotive mentations such as anger, hatred, and frustration. Such an entity may use an entire incarnative experience honing a blunt edge of hatred or anger so that it may polarize more towards the negative or separated pole.

I don't see the relevance. Ra is talking about something entirely different.

[quote='3DMonkey' pid='83085' dateline='1335413309']

Ra: I am Ra. We perceive that we have not been able to clarify your service versus its desire for service. You need, in our humble opinion, to look at the humor of the situation and relinquish your desire to serve where no service is requested.

Again, how is this relevant? Being that the animals are obviously requesting service, by crying out for help and wailing in agony.

[Shemaya]

People on an STO path decline opportunities to feel compassion all the time. It's a matter of where we choose to focus our compassionate energy.

Not everyone chooses to focus their energy on their diets.

It is not DIET we are focusing on, but the unnecessary torture and merciless killing of animals for food. At its best, with humane farmers, it is still killing animals who would otherwise lead natural lives, and who are in pain and fear when dying, and who do not want to die.

To say we are focusing on diet is yet another example of how humans are only concerned with humans, as though we were the only entities important enough to consider.

As a STO individual, I do not decline opportunities to feel compassion. How does one do that? You either feel it or not. Perhaps you choose not to act on it.

And perhaps you choose to not understand my point of view.

From what you've written so far, I think you are saying that you disagree with the current movement that is growing of humanely raised livestock for food, because you disagree with eating meat.

[3DMonkey]

I've already said that is an entirely separate topic. That is carrying a separate argument into a discussion about eating. The reason being that there is no end to that reasoning, which makes no one outside.

That's just it. They can't be separated. In order for me to eat your dog (as you suggested would be ok) I would first have to kill the dog.

Trying to separate eating meat from the killing of the animal, is disassociation. One cannot eat meat unless someone kills

Like I said, there is no end to that trail and one could blame me for the Kennedy assassination by going down that trail. So, I am not discussing that in this thread because it is off topic, IMO.


One person says "so what it an animal is killed". One person says "so what if a plant is killed". It is the same thing. One person says "I have compassion for the animal you killed". One person says "I have compassion for the plant you killed". Both are the same thing. One should not be more important than the other. Each person should be shown compassion for EACH statement. This compassion is what will transform a thought into fourth density.

[Monica]

I don't think I ever said I was anywhere close to perfect.

I think you missed my point, which was that it's ok to acknowledge we might have some STS aspects or sometimes do STS things. That doesn't make us STS beings. We are still STO.

Who I am, this physical body and genetics is truthfully made of cells that formed from the foods that I and my ancestors ingested,

Did you know that there is not a single cell in your body older than 7 years?

some of which is animal protein. My very body is made of this. I have faithfully walked an STO path for many lifetimes. Truthfully I am physically made of animals,plants, carbon based elements in my physical being. And truthfully I have been on an STO path.

Whether there is animal protein in one's body doesn't make them STO or STS. So I'm not sure what your point is.

So to believe that eating or my diet is incongruent with my path would be not only untrue, but very unnaccepting of who I am.

I'll try again.

It's not about eating. It's about torture and killing.

One can accept an other-self, while still believing that certain of their actions aren't STO.

You are what you eat,

Well, partially. We're also what we think and feel. All of that comes into play.

But if we are what we eat, then why in the world would we want to ingest the fear hormones of an animal who died in terror and agonizing pain?

Seriously, that makes no sense to me.

But aside from that, again, as Diana said, why the focus on self?

I don't think so, I often feel dysjuncture when I am observing myself judging another. With a violent criminal, I usually immediately start to think about what happened in his childhood, who abused him in the past, what his/ her life was like up to that point.

I do exactly the same.

But see, we aren't judging people. That's what we all keep saying, and yet the meat-eaters keep telling us we're judging them. We're not.

Since you mentioned the violent criminal, when you have compassion for him, does that mean you approve of what he did to his victim? Or can you separate the violent act from the person?

If the message that I got is based on my incorrect perception, thanks for correcting my perception. But honestly, that's not what is being mostly written and debated in the thread.

That is the whole point, as far as I'm concerned. And I'm pretty sure the other vegetarians feel pretty much the same way.

It's mostly about the choice of eating or not eating meat,

But again, eating meat cannot be separated from the violence that produced that meat.

Question: Why is there so much insistence that we stick to talking about eating meat, and how it affects the self, instead of what it did to the animal who became the meat?

I'm still mystified at how the animal keeps getting left out of the equation. Why?

from what I discerned. Whenever the subject of humanely raised livestock came up in the thread, there was no agreement on that from your team, which is a shame, because it is one way to not only increase awareness, but also possibly find some middle -ground and stepping-stones towards a higher vibe, very early 4D planet.

Really? I'm surprised that you perceived it thusly. I thought we were pretty much in agreement on that, that it's a step in the right direction but not the destination.

[Shemaya]

The reason that eating meat is congruent with an STO path is because when I eat something that nourishes my body, and sustains it, keeps it running optimally, provides the nutrition I require in order to create new cells everyday that replace the dying cells it is a loving and compassionate act to myself, and to my loved ones in my circle of family and friends. If I eat to keep myself healthy, I am sustaining myself so that I can continue to serve others.

I think all the questions about polarity have been answered elsewhere, so I'll refrain from addressing those questions.

People on an STO path decline opportunities to feel compassion all the time. It's a matter of where we choose to focus our compassionate energy.

Not everyone chooses to focus their energy on their diets.

Disassociation again. You've spoken only of your diet and what it does for you, while ignoring the effect your choice has on other beings...ignoring the torture and slaughter, that must take place in order for you to do that.

Not to mention, that for most people, there are other ways to nourish one's body, without torturing and killing animals.

?? You took what I wrote in 2 sentences to decide that I am not only dissociating, but ignoring torture and slaughter?

Are you saying that I nourish my body by torturing and killing animals?

[3DMonkey]

[quote='3DMonkey' pid='83085' dateline='1335413309']

However, a negatively oriented entity may choose a painful condition in order to improve the distortion toward the so-called negative emotive mentations such as anger, hatred, and frustration. Such an entity may use an entire incarnative experience honing a blunt edge of hatred or anger so that it may polarize more towards the negative or separated pole.

I don't see the relevance. Ra is talking about something entirely different.

[quote='3DMonkey' pid='83085' dateline='1335413309']

Ra: I am Ra. We perceive that we have not been able to clarify your service versus its desire for service. You need, in our humble opinion, to look at the humor of the situation and relinquish your desire to serve where no service is requested.

Again, how is this relevant? Being that the animals are obviously requesting service, by crying out for help and wailing in agony.

I'm not referring to the treatment of animals. I am referring to the perspective one has towards entities.

Abomination coincides with these words: disgust, abomination, vicious, vile, repel, and hate.

If Ra were teaching us to think such things, we might find them in the material.

[edit: and it is just like Ra to present the only use of the terms to be in dealing with entities meeting at an impasse]

[Monica]

?? You took what I wrote in 2 sentences to decide that I am not only dissociating, but ignoring torture and slaughter?

Only in that one post. You responded to my post, in which I talked about what happens to the animals, with some comments about what is happening in your body, and a focus on eating. You seemed to have missed the point I was trying to make.

I realize now that my statement deviated from my normal practice of never addressing something someone is doing personally. For that, I apologize! I was trying to illustrate what we meant by disassociation, and you gave what appeared to me to be a perfect example, so I seized it and pointed it out.

Are you saying that I nourish my body by torturing and killing animals?

I'm not saying anything about you personally. I'm saying that anyone who eats dead animals, cannot escape the fact that the animals were killed, and in most cases, tortured. Even those who say they buy 'humanely raised' meat, probably eat in restaurants sometimes, so they too are eating meat that came from animals who were tortured.

Thus, the 'nourishing' of the body, was bought at a price, that was paid by the animals.

It's not a judgment. It's simply a fact.

[Diana]

It's mostly about the choice of eating or not eating meat, from what I discerned. Whenever the subject of humanely raised livestock came up in the thread, there was no agreement on that from your team, which is a shame, because it is one way to not only increase awareness, but also possibly find some middle -ground and stepping-stones towards a higher vibe, very early 4D planet.

Apparently you have not read this entire thread, because you are wrong here. We, the proponents of a plant-based diet, have said this over and over and over. It certainly is a stepping stone--and a large one. My heart would sing if I knew commercial animal farming stopped, and we as humans had progressed to humane treatment of animals for food.

Of course, I would still hope for the journey to progress toward even more compassionate ways of existing together with all other-selves.

[3DMonkey]

My heart would sing if every vegetarian would stand beside a slaughter house worker and smile with approval that their choice is valid on third density earth.

[Monica]

My heart would sing if every vegetarian would stand beside a slaughter house worker and smile with approval that their choice is valid on third density earth.

We'd be doing something not even Q'uo would do, in my understanding.

Q'uo has stated (quoting from memory, so might not be exact):

"The STS path is a bloody path. There are those who prefer it. We are not those. We are of the radiant path."

[3DMonkey]

What is more radiant than a loving smile of compassion?

---

Is it nOT a beautiful thought?

[Monica]

What is more radiant than a loving smile of compassion?

---

Is it nOT a beautiful thought?

Sure. Now how about extending that beautiful compassion to animals?

[Diana]

My heart would sing if every vegetarian would stand beside a slaughter house worker and smile with approval that their choice is valid on third density earth.

Would your heart sing while someone looked upon the sex-offender who abused one of your children, and smiled in approval because the sex-offender's choice was valid?

[Shemaya]

My heart would sing if every vegetarian would stand beside a slaughter house worker and smile with approval that their choice is valid on third density earth.

Would your heart sing while someone looked upon the sex-offender who abused one of your children, and smiled in approval because the sex-offender's choice was valid?

Diana

---

maybe you are feeling something from Monkey's comments, but I think it unfair to bring his children into it

[3DMonkey]

My heart would sing if every vegetarian would stand beside a slaughter house worker and smile with approval that their choice is valid on third density earth.

Would your heart sing while someone looked upon the sex-offender who abused one of your children, and smiled in approval because the sex-offender's choice was valid?

Are you seeking on thing from me? Are you seeking to surface a primal anger from within me?

These things are unneccessary. These perspectives are not what Ra intended to teach.

---

What is more radiant than a loving smile of compassion?

---

Is it nOT a beautiful thought?

Sure. Now how about extending that beautiful compassion to animals?

Why ask for this? Why demand it even? Are we supposed to demand things from others?

[Shemaya]

It's mostly about the choice of eating or not eating meat, from what I discerned. Whenever the subject of humanely raised livestock came up in the thread, there was no agreement on that from your team, which is a shame, because it is one way to not only increase awareness, but also possibly find some middle -ground and stepping-stones towards a higher vibe, very early 4D planet.

Apparently you have not read this entire thread, because you are wrong here. We, the proponents of a plant-based diet, have said this over and over and over. It certainly is a stepping stone--and a large one. My heart would sing if I knew commercial animal farming stopped, and we as humans had progressed to humane treatment of animals for food.

Of course, I would still hope for the journey to progress toward even more compassionate ways of existing together with all other-selves.

I read much that was negative regarding this topic, which made no sense to me, but gives a greater understanding of the distortions being played out in the thread.

[Diana]

My heart would sing if every vegetarian would stand beside a slaughter house worker and smile with approval that their choice is valid on third density earth.

Would your heart sing while someone looked upon the sex-offender who abused one of your children, and smiled in approval because the sex-offender's choice was valid?

Are you seeking on thing from me? Are you seeking to surface a primal anger from within me?

These things are unneccessary. These perspectives are not what Ra intended to teach.

I am doing no such thing. I was making a direct analogy to what you said, with something you might be able to relate to.

Do you not understand the comparison?

[Monica]

Why ask for this? Why demand it even? Are we supposed to demand things from others?

It was a request, not a demand.

The sad thing is that I would even have to ask for it. It boggles my mind.

Again, the focus is thrown back at self ("someone asked something of me"), rather than simply extend compassion to younger other-selves.

---

They don't like analogies, Diana. I found that out the hard way. Analogies are, apparently, taboo on this thread. I offered a similar analogy and all hell broke loose. I was suddenly the 'offensive' one for making analogies.

[3DMonkey]

My heart would sing if every vegetarian would stand beside a slaughter house worker and smile with approval that their choice is valid on third density earth.

Would your heart sing while someone looked upon the sex-offender who abused one of your children, and smiled in approval because the sex-offender's choice was valid?

Are you seeking on thing from me? Are you seeking to surface a primal anger from within me?

These things are unneccessary. These perspectives are not what Ra intended to teach.

I am doing no such thing. I was making a direct analogy to what you said, with something you might be able to relate to.

Do you not understand the comparison?

Do you not understand that you going to such an extreme comparison is most likely a desire for you to find inside of me, to search for hate. We shouldn't be here encouraging one another to burn with anger toward an entity.

[Diana]

My heart would sing if every vegetarian would stand beside a slaughter house worker and smile with approval that their choice is valid on third density earth.

Would your heart sing while someone looked upon the sex-offender who abused one of your children, and smiled in approval because the sex-offender's choice was valid?

Are you seeking on thing from me? Are you seeking to surface a primal anger from within me?

These things are unneccessary. These perspectives are not what Ra intended to teach.

I am doing no such thing. I was making a direct analogy to what you said, with something you might be able to relate to.

Do you not understand the comparison?

Do you not understand that you going to such an extreme comparison is most likely a desire for you to find inside of me, to search for hate. We shouldn't be here encouraging one another to burn with anger toward an entity.

Monkey, you are missing my point, entirely.

I certainly do not ever wish to encourage that.

[3DMonkey]

Why ask for this? Why demand it even? Are we supposed to demand things from others?

It was a request, not a demand.

The sad thing is that I would even have to ask for it. It boggles my mind.

Again, the focus is thrown back at self ("someone asked something of me"), rather than simply extend compassion to younger other-selves.

---

They don't like analogies, Diana. I found that out the hard way. Analogies are, apparently, taboo on this thread. I offered a similar analogy and all hell broke loose. I was suddenly the 'offensive' one for making analogies.

And if I request that you extend compassion toward vegetation?

---

Would your heart sing while someone looked upon the sex-offender who abused one of your children, and smiled in approval because the sex-offender's choice was valid?

Are you seeking on thing from me? Are you seeking to surface a primal anger from within me?

These things are unneccessary. These perspectives are not what Ra intended to teach.

I am doing no such thing. I was making a direct analogy to what you said, with something you might be able to relate to.

Do you not understand the comparison?

Do you not understand that you going to such an extreme comparison is most likely a desire for you to find inside of me, to search for hate. We shouldn't be here encouraging one another to burn with anger toward an entity.

Monkey, you are missing my point, entirely.

I certainly do not ever wish to encourage that.

Then why ask it?

[Shemaya]

My heart would sing if every vegetarian would stand beside a slaughter house worker and smile with approval that their choice is valid on third density earth.

Would your heart sing while someone looked upon the sex-offender who abused one of your children, and smiled in approval because the sex-offender's choice was valid?

Are you seeking on thing from me? Are you seeking to surface a primal anger from within me?

These things are unneccessary. These perspectives are not what Ra intended to teach.

I am doing no such thing. I was making a direct analogy to what you said, with something you might be able to relate to.

Do you not understand the comparison?

Do you not understand that you going to such an extreme comparison is most likely a desire for you to find inside of me, to search for hate. We shouldn't be here encouraging one another to burn with anger toward an entity.

I agree Monkey, it is really provoking to bring your children up in this conversation.

It's really not worth it, this thread is just like someone said, worthy of a huge bonfire...I will probably print it up and burn it myself.

[Monica]

Do you not understand that you going to such an extreme comparison is most likely a desire for you to find inside of me, to search for hate. We shouldn't be here encouraging one another to burn with anger toward an entity.

You're 100% mistaken on that, Monkey. We're not looking for hate.

We're looking for compassion. There's all this talk about compassion, but animals are left out of it as though they don't matter. They do matter.

Maybe we're wrong to look for that, but it's definitely not hate we're looking for!

[3DMonkey]

Well, you are looking in the wrong places.

Remember your beloved toy from childhood, then one you attached yourself to for so many years?

Remember the first time your left your child with a sitter?

Can you imagine what it would be like if everyone got along during this year's holidays?

These are beginnings points to find compassion.