In regards to eating meat

[Shemaya]

So does that mean organic produce (grown with blood meal fertilizer products) has the energy of the horror and death of the slaughterhouse ? So should we eat non-organic, sacrificing our own bodies health with toxic chemicals, but avoiding contributing to the profits made from the death and horror of the slaughterhouse?

No.

Plants transmute our death and war back into life as a way to continue the life of this planet. We do a good job attempting to end the ability of this planet to host life, but the transformational ability of plant life continues.

I feel at home in the forests, looking down at the cities from a distance. In the city it just feels as if I am a cog in a machine. Synthetic, unnatural.

I find it interesting how many people feel alien to nature.

Yes, I was thinking that as I wrote the question, the amazing ability of Gaia to transmute through life force...that's what compost is too... it's the natural organic deep feminine/yin Darkness.

The "dark" the STS path utilizes is synthetic and unnatural, imo.

But still the question I am asking has to do with the support for the system by the purchasing and using blood meal for fertilizer, blood meal is essentially processed "meat", so in using it we are feeding the meat to the plants that we eat.

[Monica]

It is relevant to the thread. When it is suggested that vegetarianism is a more evolved existence, it is prudent to point out that the person from whose mouth came the spiritual writings we all admire would be classified as less evolved by self proclaimed more evolved admirers.

I disagree emphatically!! Carla has stated numerous times that she does not wish to be a guru. She just said it again last night. Please do not put her in that position.

Furthermore, none of the vegetarians has claimed to be more evolved. That is simply false. Please do not twist our words.

---

still haven't found the answer to my pet food question,

It's in the thread. The whole thread is worth reading.

So does that mean organic produce (grown with blood meal fertilizer products) has the energy of the horror and death of the slaughterhouse ?

Not any more than anything else on this planet. It's unavoidable.

So should we eat non-organic, sacrificing our own bodies health with toxic chemicals, but avoiding contributing to the profits made from the death and horror of the slaughterhouse?

I don't think that's an effective approach at all. I disagree with purist vegans who try to avoid anything remotely connected to animal by-products. The use of animal by-products is so insidious that it's must impossible.

Check this out:

Blood.
From any slaughtered animal. Used as adhesive in plywood, also found in cheese-making, foam rubber, intravenous feedings, and medicines. Possibly in foods such as lecithin

So does that mean I can't buy plywood to use to build my compost bin? It's absurd. Impossible.

And lecithin? How did animal blood get into lecithin?

Bone Char.
Animal bone ash. Used in bone china and often to make sugar white. Serves as the charcoal used in aquarium filters. Alternatives: synthetic tribasic calcium phosphate.

Well now this is just crazy. Guess what? Bone char is the only medium that will completely remove fluoride from tap water! So what do we do? Continue to let them brainwash us by drinking the fluoride in the water, in order to avoid an animal by-product?

That would be counterproductive. Far more effective to campaign against fluoridating the water, while doing what we must to the extent necessary to remove the poison from our water.

Far more effective is to simply quit supporting the meat industry. Then there will be far less animal by-products, as a result. Get to the root of the problem, instead of trying to treat the symptom.

On the other hand, some things are more easily avoided, so why not avoid them whenever possible?

Collagen.
Fibrous protein in vertebrates. Usually derived from animal tissue. Can't affect the skin's own collagen. An allergen. Alternatives: soy protein, almond oil, amla oil (see alternatives to Keratin), etc

Gelatin. Gel.
Protein obtained by boiling skin, tendons, ligaments, and/or bones in water. From cows and pigs. Used in shampoos, face masks, and other cosmetics. Used as a thickener for fruit gelatins and puddings (e.g., Jell-O). In candies, marshmallows, cakes, ice cream, yogurts. On photographic film and in vitamins as a coating and as capsules. Sometimes used to assist in "clearing" wines. Alternatives: carrageen (carrageenan, Irish moss), seaweeds (algin, agar-agar, kelp—used in jellies, plastics, medicine), pectin from fruits, dextrins, locust bean gum, cotton gum, silica gel. Marshmallows were originally made from the root of the marshmallow plant. Vegetarian capsules are now available from several companies. Digital cameras don't use film.

Collagen and gelatin are relatively easy to avoid. So I avoid them, the same way I avoid preservatives and artificial colorings in foods: by reading the label. This isn't foolproof: look at how gelatin is even used in camera film! Fortunately, we now have digital cameras, so that takes care of that.

I'm not going to stress about things I cannot control. But why not just do my part, and not support the industry in the first place? If more people stopped eating meat, they would have less by-products and would be forced to find alternatives. So that's the way to deal with the by-product issue, in my opinion. Starve it at its source.

from http://www.peta.org/living/vegetarian-li...guide.aspx

I have found in my own life that there is so much resistance to thinking about issues like this around me, and very difficult to carry the weight of this on one person's shoulders living in a community of unawakened other-selves. Especially when there is a host of other issues and "battles" to address everyday, just to live and maintain health and wellness for a family. Just to earn a living to pay the bills!

Exactly! That's why we can't really obsess about every animal by-product. It's just impossible! But it's such a simple thing to just quit eating meat. It was harder 30 years ago. I had a heck of time finding anything vegetarian other than salads. But now, nearly every restaurant has something vegetarian. And oftentimes, it's a dish that's really satisfying - like a veggie burger, or lasagne, or potato and egg tacos, or rice and bean tacos, or Thai food with egg and tofu - so the person would be well-fed, and wouldn't even miss the meat. Some mainstream chains like Taco Cabana even have a vegan black bean taco, which doesn't use lard like the pinto beans.

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Another word that you used was the word "bid". I searched on the lawofone.info, both the word "bid" and "magic", and didn't come across any bidding done between third and second density. There is a bidding between a third and fourth density though. Perhaps you mixed it up?

No, I didn't mix it up. I'm 100% certain there was something about higher STS entities using lower 2D entities. I remember the concept, but not the exact words.

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Plants transmute our death and war back into life as a way to continue the life of this planet. We do a good job attempting to end the ability of this planet to host life, but the transformational ability of plant life continues.

I feel at home in the forests, looking down at the cities from a distance. In the city it just feels as if I am a cog in a machine. Synthetic, unnatural.

I find it interesting how many people feel alien to nature.

Plants are so amazing! Q'uo advised us to connect with Nature, during this transition time. It's amazing how many food-producing plants one can grow even in the city, in a small backyard or apartment balcony. There are dwarf fruit trees that can be grown in pots, and a few small pots on a ledge can host lettuce and other greens. And they are ridiculously easy to grow.

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But still the question I am asking has to do with the support for the system by the purchasing and using blood meal for fertilizer, blood meal is essentially processed "meat", so in using it we are feeding the meat to the plants that we eat.

It isn't necessary to use blood meal for fertilizer. It's just one of many possible ingredients for compost. I just got 20 55-pound bags of fresh and partially composted horse manure delivered, for my garden and compost bin. (Miraculously, it isn't stinking up my yard!) I add leaves and kitchen waste. And I have a worm colony. According to my compost books, I don't need animal blood.

[BrownEye]

The "dark" the STS path utilizes is synthetic and unnatural, imo.

As I wrote that the word seemed to parallel "sin" which is to "miss the mark".

Interesting how the english language works, almost like it was created as part of the game.

I think this country may have been one of the hotspots for "evolution" through catalyst and possible perceptions through the game.

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We may also take into account the idea that trees have been considered "alien", and they work both as antennas and transmuters.

Almost as if they are guardians of continued ability of our perceived right to exist.

[Diana]

I often hear from people that the air is polluted, the water is polluted, everything is polluted, so why bother to eat well, live well.

Whatever happened to the idea that we all try to do the best we can? Just because the air is polluted, does not mean that we can't maximize our own potential health. Just because we have polluted the Earth, and industry continues to do so, doesn't mean we can't contribute to healing the Earth.

Perhaps we can't do EVERYTHING, but the intention could be there to live without harm, the best way we can.

For me, the obvious harm caused in slaughterhouses, and the cruel rearing of the animals, is something I do not want to contribute to. Perhaps I don't see, or become aware of, every single place the results of animal cruelty manifest, but I do not consciously contribute to it. Why would I? Would anyone contribute to the torture of a pet?

The point is that we absolutely know that commercial meat-farming is horrendous. Perhaps we don't know that in the lecithin we take, blood from animals has somehow gotten in there. Just as it is said in spiritual practice--once you know, you can't go back, you can't UN-know it.

Abridgetoofar farms sustainably, and that is a major step in my mind toward a human existence that does no harm. I still believe that eventually we will cease to require animal flesh for survival.

I would like to hear a viewpoint on how eating meat is evolved.

[Conifer16]

So, this is the famous "meat thread". I've heard a lot about this place. Some of it good some of it bad. I've also heard it's a place to present your opinion of meat eating and have a fair hearing. And not be put on trial by plant eaters.:-P let's hope that is true. I will now say something as fact with no supporting evidence and see who I can "bait" onto my hook. 

Fish, fish are the best meat products out there. I mean why else would everyone live by the ocean throughout history? Duh. It's because of the fish. Easy to get, super healthy. In fact almost as healthy as plants. Sadly fish are more chemical nowadays and in lesser numbers :-(. 

Back to opinion :-P I would if I could eat only plant matter which includes leafy greens and nuts and fruit and vegetables. With the occasional fish thrown in there. But sadly the people in the family that control the money don't have Time in their lives to shop special and take time to find organic plant and fruit or fish. :-/ so I am therefore able to eat in general red meat and processed foods :-/ I did have some fish last night though :-) and a banana :-) . I'm perfectly healthy though. I mean I know my self to be healthy and because of this knowing my reality shapes itself as such. Even though I eat not as much plant matter as I'd like. Anywho. I should probably get up and start my day. And eat something. Maybe "red meat" 0_0 :-P perhaps a bagel. You know, that makes me want bread made from scratch in the old fashion. With butter and jam. Mmmmmm sounds tasty :-)

-Conifer17
Adonai Vasu Borragus namaste
Peace and giggles 

What is stated here is an opinion! If you don't agree with it, well, GET OUT!!! Haha just kidding. :-) if you don't resonate then let it float away like a butterfly :-) 

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Oh and I haven't read any of the thread. Hope that isn't Against the rules? If it is a rule... Well it's just lame :-P shouldn't the first post of a thread not be opinionated by what others have said? :-P well anyway. If I said something that was already mentioned(probably after all the thread is over a 1,000 replies and a 100 pages. Totally not going to read all that) sorry. Didn't read it :-P oh and have a beautiful spring :-) the earth loves us <3<3 :-)

[Monica]

Pablisimo, thanks so much for sharing how this discussion has helped you develop more understanding and compassion for those with views different from your own; in this case, those who eat meat.

I wonder if the converse is also true? Meateaters, have any of you gained more understanding and compassion towards the vegetarians, as a result of this discussion?

Anyone?

[@ndy]

I'm working hard to reslove the resentment to Monica I feel for her input to this thread. (No offence ment Monica)

I realise it's a reflection of something in me. So I'm looking to reslove the conflict in myself regarding my feelings towards the judjmental attitued I find in some people. (I assume it is cause I have not come to terms with a judjmental attitude in myself)

I'm comfortable with my food choises.

[3DMonkey]

The vegetarians have said multiple times that not eating meat is more evolved. "it's so BASIC!"

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And I am not putting Carla in any position. I only point out the discrepancy in the vehicle used by Ra and the vehicle not used by Ra and thinks eliminating meat is proper evolution.

---

I basically would like you to tell the class that you think you are better than everyone because you don't eat meat.

[Monica]

I'm working hard to reslove the resentment to Monica I feel for her input to this thread. (No offence ment Monica)

I realise it's a reflection of something in me. So I'm looking to reslove the conflict in myself regarding my feelings towards the judjmental attitued I find in some people. (I assume it is cause I have not come to terms with a judjmental attitude in myself)

I'm comfortable with my food choises.

Good. I hope you work out your feelings of judgment, because I'm not judging you.

---

And I am not putting Carla in any position. I only point out the discrepancy in the vehicle used by Ra and the vehicle not used by Ra and thinks eliminating meat is proper evolution.

You are. Don't go there, Monkey. It's not fair to Carla. I will fiercely defend Carla.

I basically would like you to tell the class that you think you are better than everyone because you don't eat meat.

Sarcasm noted. Not taking the bait, Monkey.

[@ndy]

Thanks Monica I am glad you reached out to me and I take your acceptance gladly. <3


I will continue to work on why I see a judgmental streak, and why it bothers me.

[Monica]

Thanks Monica I am glad you reached out to me and I take your acceptance gladly. <3


I will continue to work on why I see a judgmental streak, and why it bothers me.

Peace to you!

[Bring4th_Austin]

Pablisimo, thanks so much for sharing how this discussion has helped you develop more understanding and compassion for those with views different from your own; in this case, those who eat meat.

I wonder if the converse is also true? Meateaters, have any of you gained more understanding and compassion towards the vegetarians, as a result of this discussion?

Anyone?

That's a tough question to realize...I never felt that I didn't understand the vegetarian choice, and I had no lack of compassion for them. Of course, as discussions get heated and argumentative, it always stretches the heart of acceptance. My awareness and compassion has grown through simple sharing of viewpoints, but it isn't of vegetarians in general...just specific aspects and biases within the human psyche which called for me to balance them.

I do feel compelled to share a way I have been able to grow throughout this discussion though, in regard to the spiritual and awareness-related aspects of dietary matters. As a specific example, at one point you had expressed displeasure when I shared the fact that I knew some vegetarians who were happy to start eating meat again because of the growing availability of humanely raised meats. I thought, "I would never feel upset about a meat-eater going vegetarian." However, I was able to use this mind-set as a reflection of where I stood myself regarding food consumption. The way that you looked at vegetarians going back to eating meat, I might look at sustainable/humane eaters going back to fast food. I took a good hard look at this mind-set which, after realized, didn't sit well with me. I was able to explore this and balance it in an even fuller acceptance than I had previously realized. Please know I don't expect you should feel the same way about the particular mindset as I have, but in that way, it has helped me grow.

[Monica]

That's a tough question to realize...I never felt that I didn't understand the vegetarian choice, and I had no lack of compassion for them. Of course, as discussions get heated and argumentative, it always stretches the heart of acceptance. My awareness and compassion has grown through simple sharing of viewpoints, but it isn't of vegetarians in general...just specific aspects and biases within the human psyche which called for me to balance them.

I do feel compelled to share a way I have been able to grow throughout this discussion though, in regard to the spiritual and awareness-related aspects of dietary matters. As a specific example, at one point you had expressed displeasure when I shared the fact that I knew some vegetarians who were happy to start eating meat again because of the growing availability of humanely raised meats. I thought, "I would never feel upset about a meat-eater going vegetarian." However, I was able to use this mind-set as a reflection of where I stood myself regarding food consumption. The way that you looked at vegetarians going back to eating meat, I might look at sustainable/humane eaters going back to fast food. I took a good hard look at this mind-set which, after realized, didn't sit well with me. I was able to explore this and balance it in an even fuller acceptance than I had previously realized. Please know I don't expect you should feel the same way about the particular mindset as I have, but in that way, it has helped me grow.

Wonderful! Thank you for sharing, Austin!

[Oldern]

I think that every situation has the issue of "judging others".

If two person meets, and ask each other: how do you eat, my friend?
The vegetarian can say: I am a vegetarian. End of sentence.
The meat eater can say: I eat vegetables and meat as well. End of sentence.

Now, the first pitfall can come from both ways.
Situation 1: The vegetarian says: "I am a vegetarian - because I realized that it is not only more natural, at least I am not supporting something cruel like the meat growing industry!"*
Situation 2: The meat eater says: "I eat meat because I am a grown man, not a ***** - I like it when it is red, I like it when it is bloody, and I would not be able to eat all that smelly, pointless stuff in the first place!"**

*In this case ,the vegetarian wants to make a point. Wants to make a change in the other-self. It also contains the seed of judgement as well.
**In this case, the meat eater wants to make a point and justify what he does so he can keep doing it. It also contains the seed of judgement as well.

Both cases lead to heated arguments - I imagine we see many examples of these above in the thread -, but the most important thing is that spiritual growth, imho, and many teachings kinda back me up with it: is not linear! There is no clear progression at all. Just because one inflicts no physical harm to other beings, it can still be "behind" mentally and regarding the expression of love, for example... and just because someone eats meat, he could progress in other areas as well easily, being overall more balanced than someone who is vegetarian, but not as balanced, because that is just one aspect of how we live.

I would like to believe that we can all agree that no judgement - and more importantly: no offense taken when judgement does takes place is the healthy way to see this matter

[Monica]

Wants to make a change in the other-self.

This brings up the point I've been trying to make for this entire discussion, but have failed to convey:

The vegetarian isn't trying to change anyone.

S/he is trying to save the animals and reduce suffering.

Just because one inflicts no physical harm to other beings, it can still be "behind" mentally and regarding the expression of love, for example... and just because someone eats meat, he could progress in other areas as well easily, being overall more balanced than someone who is vegetarian, but not as balanced, because that is just one aspect of how we live.

I would like to believe that we can all agree that no judgement - and more importantly: no offense taken when judgement does takes place is the healthy way to see this matter

Agreed!

[3DMonkey]

I'm working hard to reslove the resentment to Monica I feel for her input to this thread. (No offence ment Monica)

I realise it's a reflection of something in me. So I'm looking to reslove the conflict in myself regarding my feelings towards the judjmental attitued I find in some people. (I assume it is cause I have not come to terms with a judjmental attitude in myself)

I'm comfortable with my food choises.

Good. I hope you work out your feelings of judgment, because I'm not judging you.

---

And I am not putting Carla in any position. I only point out the discrepancy in the vehicle used by Ra and the vehicle not used by Ra and thinks eliminating meat is proper evolution.

You are. Don't go there, Monkey. It's not fair to Carla. I will fiercely defend Carla.

I basically would like you to tell the class that you think you are better than everyone because you don't eat meat.

Sarcasm noted. Not taking the bait, Monkey.

There's nothing to defend. Don't do this again. Where you get defensive in order to make me out to be offensive. I've done nothing offense.

---

Do you actually think I insulted Carla by saying she eats meat?

[BrownEye]

I basically would like you to tell the class that you think you are better than everyone because you don't eat meat.

I am better. Better than i was. Better off than many of, if not most of the meat eaters that i know personally. I don't deal with the aches and pains they complain of. I don't get sick. I dont have huge weight fluctuations from spontaneous diet changes thinking that something different will help "change" the current issues.

This does not apply to "all" of course. There are those with "better" templates that deal with damage better and faster. But they are still limited in how long they can go. Atkins is a good example.

[yossarian]

I was vegan for several years and eating basically took over my life. It took a ton of money, a ton of time, loads of hassle, caused all kinds of inconveniences. It was a major pain in the ass, and in the end I'm not really even sure if it was healthier because

1. there is a lot of scientific controversy

2. it's really easy to eat poorly on a vegetarian diet. Any vegetarian who has overdosed on synthetic soy burgers can attest.

I switched back to meat-eating so I could rejoin normal society. Eating became far less of an issue. Part of this is that I decided that the veggie burger, while being humane, is really not healthy. It's packed full of preservatives and bad carbs and so on. All the synthetic vegan food does not seem healthy to me and a vegan who sticks mainly to that won't be in the best physical shape. It's a bunch of really bad carbs, and in the case of soy products you also get doses of estrogen which is terrible for men at least.

In comparison, it's pretty easy to get high quality organic meat now, and since meat has a higher nutrient density it's easy to get all your nutrition. Less chewing, less food prep, etc.

I gained compassion for veggies because I was one. It's ridiculous the amount of people who want to pick fights with you. Just the simple fact of not eating some product--like leaving it to the side of your plate--will start fights. People will notice. I remember this one guy found out I was a veggie through this method and from then on, for as long as I knew him, he would bring it up constantly whenever I saw him.

He would say stuff like, "So you must think you're so much better than the rest of us huh?"

and I'd be like, "...What?"

and he's like, "cause you're vegetarian."

After like a year of this my response was just, "Oh that again. Yeah pretty much. I guess so."

Anyway I have compassion for the veggies and I also have a lot of sympathy. It's a tough life. It's a huge pain in the ass. It's very easy to do it wrong and to be unhealthy on it. Not because I think it's impossible to do right, but rather because society makes it so very difficult.

The average person who eats an average diet can easily end up more healthy than a vegan who eats a poor diet. There are vegans who eat potato chips and french fries everyday. They are ruining their body.

I really did feel uniquely amazing on my raw food vegan diet mostly consisting of fruit. But it was incredibly expensive, took a hell of a lot of shopping, and I had to swallow massive quantities of smoothie everyday. It also put me out of sync with one of the most fundamental human bonding rituals--dinner.

I eat 2/3rds of my meals with other people now and the smoothie thing would massively interfere with this. In addition, staying on that diet was incredibly challenging because I was up against a lifetime of limbic system programming that told me to crave carbs.

I really hope that society will evolve some collective means of eating healthier. I hope that my next life there will just be fruit smoothies sitting around everywhere for people to eat or something.

Ultimately I found that being normal saved me of a lot of hassles and I had to prioritize this. I also found it takes about 10X less effort to be healthy on a meat diet than on a veggie diet. It's so easy to miss something important on a veggie diet. I need my testosterone and omega-3s and protein. On a vegan diet, getting this is a pain in the ass. On a meat diet society has ensured that I pretty much get all this automatically. Note that I don't live in a fast food town like the Southern USA where there is a fast food shop on every corner. I don't know anyone who considers fast food an OK thing to do, which apparently is different in the states. The meat I eat comes from whole foods and other organic stores.

There's also the factor that these days I often don't cook for myself.

If I had a personal chef who handled all my cooking and did it just as I wanted I might try to go back for the morality of it all. I really do think it sucks that so many animals are killed, even the organic ones. If it is actually possible to reach the same level of health on a veg diet then I will be pleased and happy to adopt it when it becomes the norm. As of right now though I am just deciding to trust medical consensus, trust my family, and not adopt such extreme lifestyles in general. I want to be part of humanity even if humanity is less evolved.

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I basically would like you to tell the class that you think you are better than everyone because you don't eat meat.

I am better. Better than i was. Better off than many of, if not most of the meat eaters that i know personally. I don't deal with the aches and pains they complain of. I don't get sick. I dont have huge weight fluctuations from spontaneous diet changes thinking that something different will help "change" the current issues.

This does not apply to "all" of course. There are those with "better" templates that deal with damage better and faster. But they are still limited in how long they can go. Atkins is a good example.

There is no shortage of fat, unhealthy vegans. There's nothing good about non-fruit/veg carbs. Your typical person who switches to veggism drops their meat products and eats three times as many unhealthy carbs--this is a backwards step healthwise.

To me it seems obvious that meat is healthier than grains and starches and bad carbs like that. Eating cornmeal and soy for breakfast lunch and dinner is terrible for your body and will make most people fat.

[Monica]

There's nothing to defend. Don't do this again. Where you get defensive in order to make me out to be offensive. I've done nothing offense.

Monkey, you were sarcastic. You've been sarcastic other times too but I let it slide. Not this time. Stop here.

Do you actually think I insulted Carla by saying she eats meat?

Good heavens no!! I don't want Carla analyzed. I will not allow it. She has done too much for us. Don't put her in that position. That's all. Drop it.

---

I gained compassion for veggies because I was one. It's ridiculous the amount of people who want to pick fights with you. Just the simple fact of not eating some product--like leaving it to the side of your plate--will start fights. People will notice. I remember this one guy found out I was a veggie through this method and from then on, for as long as I knew him, he would bring it up constantly whenever I saw him.

He would say stuff like, "So you must think you're so much better than the rest of us huh?"

and I'd be like, "...What?"

and he's like, "cause you're vegetarian."

After like a year of this my response was just, "Oh that again. Yeah pretty much. I guess so."

And it just happened here, in this very thread...

Thanks soooooo much for sharing, yossarian!!! I really appreciate your point of view. Bright blessings on your journey!

[3DMonkey]

I'm not analyzing or asking to analyze anyone. False accusations are well against forum rules.

[BrownEye]

To me it seems obvious that meat is healthier than grains and starches and bad carbs like that. Eating cornmeal and soy for breakfast lunch and dinner is terrible for your body and will make most people fat.

Who told you that vegans eat grains? I don't, specifically for the reason you mentioned. Grains and meat products are the biggest reasons for the diabetes epidemic. An ignorant vegan is an unhealthy vegan. I think there is a keyword hidden in here?

I think that Atkins guy died after his second heart attack, promoting his healthy lifestyle?

I recently had a visit by a guy who killed himself with "ribs". It shut off his liver. He was warned by others. He even told me he would rather die than give up his steaks and ribs. He died in less than two months after saying this to me. His wife was told she would need a liver transplant soon as well. For some unkown reason she quit eating meat.

You know what's really weird? I have never seen a fat person in Whole Foods yet. They do carry meat, but I never see meat going down the conveyors. However, in Walmart I sometimes see a whole shopping cart of meat being pushed to the conveyors LoL.

Oh! I just remembered the funniest thing! This huge lady flipped out over a bag of chips. She loaded up on a bunch of bags in the aisle, and then flipped out about the bags next to the checkout line being cheaper than she was charged. They explained to her that she grabbed larger bags than the size that was on sale, but she didn't care, all that was going through her mind was "chips" that she was unable to get past checkout with. I was behind 3 people in my line and when I left she was still arguing, still not comprehending.

[Monica]

I'm not analyzing or asking to analyze anyone. False accusations are well against forum rules.

Getting back to the topic of this thread...

Pickle, I see lots of fat people in the Whole Foods in my city. But I live in a fat city. To give them credit, they are obviously trying to improve their diet. And to give the city credit, we now have not 1, but 2 vegetarian restaurants! 1 of them vegan! Vegan Tex-Mex! It is exquisitely delicious. So good I almost want to put the 'raw' part on hold, haha! But not really.

I'm amazed at how much more energy I have since getting off cheese completely. Despite daily juicing, green smoothies, etc. that little bit of cheese a couple of times a week was really slowing me down. I now feel like something has lifted...hard to describe. Lighter.

Austin is home to the largest Whole Foods in the country! I'm very impressed that such a large natural market can be supported. It's always crazy busy.

I see meat on the conveyor all the time. It's really challenging when it's wet and bloody and gets it all wet, and then I have veggies. I wonder if something could be done about that.

[BrownEye]

Pickle, I see lots of fat people in the Whole Foods in my city.

I wonder if they are beginners LMAO! There are many people becoming more aware of what they put in their body.

I'm amazed at how much more energy I have since getting off cheese completely. Despite daily juicing, green smoothies, etc. that little bit of cheese a couple of times a week was really slowing me down. I now feel like something has lifted...hard to describe. Lighter.

Cheese was the last thing I dropped. I love cheese. I was eating cheese enchiladas for lunch when I noticed one day that I could feel a thickening of the fuilds going through my chest. I suddenly became aware of what that cheese was doing.

I am working on a new post about "lighter".

[Tenet Nosce]

Personally, I am a bit confused as to why the discussion keeps going round and round as to what is the "best" diet when, frankly, we already have the answer. It's the one that very few people seem willing to accept:

There is no best diet. Every body is different. Period. End of story.

More than just being exasperated, I am really curious to understand the psychological process behind this. I've brought the point up several times in this thread. People say- yes TN you're probably right about that! And then proceed to continue discussing from the standpoint of what is "good" and "bad", as if there were one standard to apply to everyone, and as if every body was exactly the same. As if.. there really is some "ultimate answer" here to be found and if we just keep arguing enough about it, somehow it will finally emerge.

I'm not just talking about here in this thread, but I have seen this in many different contexts. For example, I used to teach 12-week weight loss classes. Same thing. One week we are talking about how every body is different, and what is good for one person might not be right for another. Everyone "seems" to understand... then next week it is right back to "I heard peanuts are bad for you. Is that true?" Um.... hell-O? Didn't we just cover this last week? And the week before? And the week before? Do people have amnesia or something?

It's almost like one of those pop-up boxes that just won't go away. Or like a virus program that keeps launching itself no matter how many times you shut it down. It's the "good/bad" mental virus or something. It's like people just aren't willing to let go of that kind of thinking for real. They are willing to consider it for a moment, but then left to their own devices it is right back to "good" and "bad" mentality.

What is this really about? Why the insistence on reducing every subject down into neat little "good" and "bad" categories? What purpose does this serve, if any?

Here's the deal:

Beef is good for some bodies, and not for others.
Wheat is good for some bodies, and not for others.
Potatoes are good for some bodies, and not for others.
Tilapia is good for some bodies, and not for others.
Carrots are good for some bodies, and not for others.
Beets are good for some bodies, and not for others.
Lamb is good for some bodies, and not for others.
Sauerkraut is good for some bodies, and not for others.
Yogurt is good for some bodies, and not for others.
Salad is good for some bodies, and not for others.
Spicy food is good for some bodies, and not for others.
... and so on and so forth.

This is actually the view that is most well-supported by the available literature. It is the view that is most well-supported by people's actual experience. And it is the view of the world's oldest healing traditions, such as Ayurveda. Why, then, all the resistance? What is that -really- about?

Why can't we just let this be what it is? Why do people feel so compelled to take what they have found personally works for their own body, and then generalize as to be the "best" for every body?

There is no "one true way". Not for diet. Not for relationships. Not for sex. Not for spirituality. Not for politics. Not for education. Not for ANYTHING.

You must find your own answers. Seek what is right for you. There are no "hard and fast" rules to follow in this place. It is up to us to discern what is best for us. And when we do... it then becomes our honor/duty to assist others in finding out what is best... for THEM... and being completely willing to accept that what is best for THEM might be totally different than what is best for ourselves.

(Oh, and by the way, I am fairly sure this is also the view supported by Carla. Not that it should matter all that much.)

[Monica]

Why do people feel so compelled to take what they have found personally works for their own body, and then generalize as to be the "best" for every body?

I haven't seen anyone dictate a particular diet for any particular person, in this entire discussion. So I really don't know what you're referring to.

This is a Law of One forum. Most of this discussion has been about the spiritual implications of eating animals.

[Tenet Nosce]

This is a Law of One forum. Most of this discussion has been about the spiritual implications of eating animals.

Yes- it is a Law of One forum. And the only mention of "meat" in the material is twice where Ra actually recommends that Carla eat it, and once where they recommended to eat it "fresh" rather than with "preservatives added". Do you suppose Ra would recommend something to their own channel which had such profound negative spiritual implications?

[Monica]

Yes- it is a Law of One forum. And the only mention of "meat" in the material is twice

I don't recall Ra mentioning a lot of things that we might consider negative. Ra didn't give a 10 commandments!

where Ra actually recommends that Carla eat it, and once where they recommended to eat it "fresh" rather than with "preservatives added".

This has been discussed previously in this thread. Both instances had to do with very specific questions.

In another instance, a more general question was asked, and the term animal products was used instead of meat, with the caveat to the extent necessary for the individual metabolism.

Do you suppose Ra would recommend something to their own channel which had such profound negative spiritual implications?

This has already been discussed in this thread.

[Tenet Nosce]

I haven't seen anyone dictate a particular diet for any particular person, in this entire discussion. So I really don't know what you're referring to.

Are you serious? OK then.. let's go back and start at post #1 and see what turns up.

The healthiest diet on earth is a high fruit diet.

Bottom line: Vegetarianism is better for everyone - yourself, the plants, the animals.

The following foods should be avoided, regardless of what your diet is:
- Potatoes
- Broccoli
- Corn
- Sprouts
- Meat
- Dairy
- Stored Grains
- Cashews, Peanuts
- Barley
- Apples (and other high-fructose fruits, but apples are the big one)
- Beans
- Caffeine
- Mushrooms
- Vinegar
- Most oils
- Unfermented soy products like tofu (instead of tofu, use tempeh)

a raw foods vegan diet the absolute ultimate spiritually pure and karmically free diet to aspire to while still here in 3D.

a raw-foods vegan diet is the ultimate karma-free diet.

A raw food diet is key to good health.

For this reason those who seek higher consciousness should scrupulously avoid: 1) all animal flesh, including fish and eggs, 2) tobacco in any form, 3) alcohol in any form, and 4) mind-altering drugs–including the legal ones. The use of these substances is a form of mental and spiritual suicide–and often physical suicide, too. (The number of suicides committed by those who are pumped full of “tranquillizers” and “anti-depressants” is simply incredible.)

If I had to summarize this lecture in a single sentence, it is this: The single most effective thing anybody can do in order to make themselves personally healthier and make this ecosystem more stable and life-preserving is to reduce or eliminate the animal flesh in your diet.

And the flesh of slain beasts in his body will become his own tomb. For I tell you truly, he who kills, kills himself, and whoso eats the flesh of slain beasts, eats of the body of death. For in his blood every drop of their blood turns to poison; in his breath their breath to stink; in his flesh their flesh to boils; in his bones their bones to chalk; in his bowels their bowels t o decay; in his eyes their eyes to scales; in his ears their ears to waxy issue. And their death will become his death.

Wheat is not good for you anyway.

I find that the only meat eaters that don't have health problems arise at some point are the Inuit.

Hence, meat is bad.

we are clearly designed as "herbivores", including our digestive systems and teeth.

That's just from the first 20 pages of this thread.

[drifting pages]

Personally, I am a bit confused as to why the discussion keeps going round and round as to what is the "best" diet when, frankly, we already have the answer. It's the one that very few people seem willing to accept:

There is no best diet. Every body is different. Period. End of story.

More than just being exasperated, I am really curious to understand the psychological process behind this. I've brought the point up several times in this thread. People say- yes TN you're probably right about that! And then proceed to continue discussing from the standpoint of what is "good" and "bad", as if there were one standard to apply to everyone, and as if every body was exactly the same. As if.. there really is some "ultimate answer" here to be found and if we just keep arguing enough about it, somehow it will finally emerge.

I'm not just talking about here in this thread, but I have seen this in many different contexts. For example, I used to teach 12-week weight loss classes. Same thing. One week we are talking about how every body is different, and what is good for one person might not be right for another. Everyone "seems" to understand... then next week it is right back to "I heard peanuts are bad for you. Is that true?" Um.... hell-O? Didn't we just cover this last week? And the week before? And the week before? Do people have amnesia or something?

It's almost like one of those pop-up boxes that just won't go away. Or like a virus program that keeps launching itself no matter how many times you shut it down. It's the "good/bad" mental virus or something. It's like people just aren't willing to let go of that kind of thinking for real. They are willing to consider it for a moment, but then left to their own devices it is right back to "good" and "bad" mentality.

What is this really about? Why the insistence on reducing every subject down into neat little "good" and "bad" categories? What purpose does this serve, if any?

Here's the deal:

Beef is good for some bodies, and not for others.
Wheat is good for some bodies, and not for others.
Potatoes are good for some bodies, and not for others.
Tilapia is good for some bodies, and not for others.
Carrots are good for some bodies, and not for others.
Beets are good for some bodies, and not for others.
Lamb is good for some bodies, and not for others.
Sauerkraut is good for some bodies, and not for others.
Yogurt is good for some bodies, and not for others.
Salad is good for some bodies, and not for others.
Spicy food is good for some bodies, and not for others.
... and so on and so forth.

This is actually the view that is most well-supported by the available literature. It is the view that is most well-supported by people's actual experience. And it is the view of the world's oldest healing traditions, such as Ayurveda. Why, then, all the resistance? What is that -really- about?

Why can't we just let this be what it is? Why do people feel so compelled to take what they have found personally works for their own body, and then generalize as to be the "best" for every body?

There is no "one true way". Not for diet. Not for relationships. Not for sex. Not for spirituality. Not for politics. Not for education. Not for ANYTHING.

You must find your own answers. Seek what is right for you. There are no "hard and fast" rules to follow in this place. It is up to us to discern what is best for us. And when we do... it then becomes our honor/duty to assist others in finding out what is best... for THEM... and being completely willing to accept that what is best for THEM might be totally different than what is best for ourselves.

(Oh, and by the way, I am fairly sure this is also the view supported by Carla. Not that it should matter all that much.)

I think i am going to print this and let it sink in.

In some areas of my life i still have some bias of the "let's tell them what is best" kind.

[Monica]

Are you serious?

Absolutely.

Describing an ideal to aspire to is not the same thing as dictating to others that they adhere to that ideal.

Nor is it judging them if they don't.

Actually, I am growing weary of this marathon thread. I'll continue participating whenever there are new ideas presented, but I'm not interested in repeating what I've already said, for the benefit of those who haven't read the whole thread.

I'm not the Energizer bunny. :-/