what happens when we DIE?

[Plenum]

Ra gives some very intriguing answers to this question.

- -

first up, when we 'die', it is the chemical body that 'dies'. The BODY in the mind/body/spirit complex is still intact and alive!

30.3 Questioner: Upon our physical death, as we call it, from this particular density and this particular incarnative experience, we lose this chemical body. Immediately after the loss of this chemical body do we maintain a different type of body? Is there still a mind/body/spirit complex at that point?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct. The mind/body/spirit complex is quite intact; the physical body complex you now associate with the term body being but manifestation of a more dense and intelligently informed and powerful body complex.

this is news to me. I had always associated the body with the flesh and blood thing that I am dwelling in, but Ra has made special attention to define an entity as a mind/body/spirit complex, and that complex includes the 'body complex' which is a different thing to what we call just 'the body'.

- -

what happens to the 'mind' at death?

Ra seems to drop another bomb on us here, as the activity of the 'mind' in 3d is as much a temporary state as our 'physical bodies'. But beyond the temporary waftings of thought, are the true emotions and biases that define who we 'really are'.

first of all, the loss of temporary thoughts:

30.4 Ra: I am Ra. In your terms there is a great loss of mind complex due to the fact that much of the activity of the mental nature of which you are aware during the experience of this space/time continuum is as much of a surface illusion as is the chemical body complex.

and here the pure emotions and wisdoms that define who we truly are:

In other terms nothing whatever of importance is lost; the character or, shall we say, pure distortion of emotions and biases or distortions and wisdoms, if you will, becoming obvious for the first time, shall we say; these pure emotions and wisdoms and bias/distortions being, for the most part, either ignored or underestimated during physical life experience.

this seems to suggest that it is very difficult to 'know thyself' while in 3d. For much of it, we just seem to be along for the ride on the rollercoaster, making observations and enjoying the ride, but quite oblivious to the reflections that come our way.

- -

and what about the spirit?

this seems to be a simpler answer:

In terms of the spiritual, this channel is then much opened due to the lack of necessity for the forgetting characteristic of third density.

---

strangely enough, I have never feared death, not in the way that others do. Even from the earliest age, this was not something that bothered me.

I did have a favourite Aunt who died in a car crash when I was 5 or 6 and I was quite distraught that I would not see her again. But Death itself never held any sway over me.

It surprises me that others actually run away (or try to run away) from the Reaper. He just represents Change.

[Ankh]

What happens when we die? Hmmm, since it's Harvest times, the clock has striked the hour, and we get to go home! (Sorry, couldn't resist that.)

I've always been fascinated by the death too. When I was young, there was a boy in my vicinity who has been in some kind of car accident and all adults talked about that he maybe now will die. This was so fascinating to me, that I went to that hospital where he was, for *several days*, just to experience death. (I was young and didn't understand it properly.) Some psychic also told me that death is fascinating to me. I suppose that if my memories of being a priest in ancient Egypt are correct, I've had my share with this. And what do I do now - working in a hospice where people are dying.

One time, at my work, I was holding hand of one patient, who took his last breathe, and this is what I experienced: a "field leak" (don't have any proper word for it) opened up above his head, and I experienced a rush of most amazing, unconditionally loving energy running through me, taking me with it through this "leak". It was dark in there. And then the leak closed, and I "came back" to the present moment. I couldn't stop feeling this complete joy and love. Couldn't stop smiling, as I understood that it wasn't me experiencing it, but him. He went to the light/love. =)

Thanks for posting.

[drifting pages]

How can people have "memories" of past lives when most of our current details is lost when we die.

I think that past "memories" is nothing more then you/we taping unto in you/our essence and finding things you/we are not usually aware of and then filling it with details that your/our physical mind is used to perceive.

This relates to, everything being here and right now and why imagination is a tool to view other realities, also relating to us being creators and the origin of thought and our state of being.

This glues with my noting that everything is a dream within the ONE (consciousnesses)

What do you think of my ideas ankh ?

Edit:This also relates to my wonderment of being able to be so focused and identified with one "stream" type of reality.
Which ties with the very notion of being able to perceive "other then". Creation/realities are indeed a gift to One because without the "ALL" there would be no experience, no awareness, because to be aware you have to be aware of something "out side of you"

Difference/variety/movement... >>>>>>>>this is why darkness/pain/unwanted and anything in and between is also a gift

[BrownEye]

How can people have "memories" of past lives when most of our current details is lost when we die.

The knowledge of all past experience is supposed to be stored/accumulated in the 9th chakra, "outside" of the body.

[drifting pages]

Ra just said it is lost, could you provide a quote where he says the details you make with your physical mind continue somewhere.

[BrownEye]

[/u] you now associate with the term body being but manifestation of a more dense and intelligently informed and powerful body complex.

I am told that when we die another level body activates. We know that we have multiple bodies, with mainly one in activation.

[drifting pages]

yes but Ra also says:
"30.4 Ra: I am Ra. In your terms there is a great loss of mind complex due to the fact that much of the activity of the mental nature of which you are aware during the experience of this space/time continuum is as much of a surface illusion as is the chemical body complex."

Which to me means that this "me" is a surface illusion, the details are not important but my state of being/essence is.

I use specific thoughts/details as the mind i am as a symbolical structure of what is within.

[zodekai]

Do holograms die? :idea:

[drifting pages]

Don't think so, i think Plenum means death as the cultural and religious beliefs define it.
Also when someones body decays and becomes dust.

[Ankh]

How can people have "memories" of past lives when most of our current details is lost when we die.

I was more of a belief that the "details" which are lost at the death are more like what my granny cooked for dinner at December the 3rd 1979. Of course, if that would be of significant matter to me, say that I for instance got poised and died because of that dinner, I would probably put some significance at that detail. And perhaps, during the next incarnation experience some difficulty with that particular foodstuff. But nothing of the importance is lost. The memories are not stored in the brain, our chemical brain that we have, but outside it. I remember reading some studies that some researchers did, that they could hypnotize some people who could give so many details regarding their *current* life that the researchers reached the conclusion that it's impossible for the brain to have so many cells to contain all this information.

I think that past "memories" is nothing more then you/we taping unto in you/our essence and finding things you/we are not usually aware of and then filling it with details that your/our physical mind is used to perceive.

Surely. Maybe. I don't know. I have my doubts too. Many doubts. Some of these memories are nonetheless "unmistakable". Doubting them seems to me like swearing in the church. "Unholy" is the word that comes into my mind. It would be akin to someone telling me that something that I experienced in this life, didn't happen. And some of the stuff that I remember must be eons old, yet it seems like they happened yesterday, as clear and near they are.

This relates to, everything being here and right now and why imagination is a tool to view other realities, also relating to us being creators and the origin of thought and our state of being.

What is imagination? This question has been interesting to me, and I've had many thoughts about that. Is imagination to take a thought? And then create something with it? But what if you are native, very new/young third density entity, are you able to create with thought then too? Because you don't have enough of the experiences at this point. And if you don't have enough of the experiences, how are then able to create?

Regarding time and being here and now, Ra said that the third density has the past, the present and the future. So we have our history, and we can think of our future, while we constantly experiencing only now. Yet, are we present in that now, or are we drifting someplace else?

As our current focus is in third density containing the past, the present and the future, it is not so seen from the point of residence of our totality beingness in seventh density. This what we experience now, experiencing time as going forward, is not more than looking back from that point.

This glues with my noting that everything is a dream within the ONE (consciousnesses)

Probably. I think that this dream is of "linear" structure though, until some points are reached. Each point has its specific characteristics of that particular density which you have pierced and gaining an understanding of, in regards to time. When you have reached seventh density, and stop looking back though, this reverses and you are then/now merging with/becoming the consciousness of the Creator, or all that is.

Edit:This also relates to my wonderment of being able to be so focused and identified with one "stream" type of reality.
Which ties with the very notion of being able to perceive "other then". Creation/realities are indeed a gift to One because without the "ALL" there would be no experience, no awareness, because to be aware you have to be aware of something "out side of you"

Difference/variety/movement... >>>>>>>>this is why darkness/pain/unwanted and anything in and between is also a gift

I think that each density has its limitations, and boundaries for knowledge. Until seventh density these boundaries are "real", as you have not yet reached required understanding of where you are, in order to proceed towards the becoming the consciousness of the Creator. But at the same time, the Creation/Creator is infinite, and can be very difficult to grasp for the third density mind, but not sixth. But who in turn has other limitations.

[Eddie]

Plenum, you might wish to read Robert Monroe's books, if you haven't already, as he treats this subject extensively.

[zodekai]

Don't think so, i think Plenum means death as the cultural and religious beliefs define it.
Also when someones body decays and becomes dust.

Culture and beliefs are aware of the hologram, however they seem to have forgotten.

[Oceania]

i like near-death.com

[BrownEye]

What is imagination? This question has been interesting to me, and I've had many thoughts about that. Is imagination to take a thought? And then create something with it?

A person blind at birth cannot imagine an image. This scientifically shows us that all thought/consideration/memory is a patchwork of previous sensory recording.

I would think that once we have an imprint of something, we have access to all previous imprints of the same nature. This may place importance on the width of experience itself, combined with the importance of meditation as a way to connect things together, reorganizing them into (new to us) constructs/patterns that unlock the ability to connect to other "like" patterns.

Almost like we have to create a doorway by reconstructing recorded constructs into a key. On the other side of the veil maybe we don't have the nervous system available for "reconstruction", and only have the copies of experience.

I'm rambling.

[drifting pages]

Thanks for replying Ankh

I will explain further what i meant.

Do you remember how Ra says that there is no right and wrong, only identities and that we are "amusing ourselves" through this parallel route of understanding the "original thought" instead of just realising it and being "there".


"In truth there is no right or wrong. There is no polarity for all will be, as you would say, reconciled at some point in your dance through the mind/body/spirit complex which you amuse yourself by distorting in various ways at this time. This distortion is not in any case necessary. It is chosen by each of you as an alternative to understanding the complete unity of thought which binds all things. You are not speaking of similar or somewhat like entities or things. You are every thing, every being, every emotion, every event, every situation. You are unity. You are infinity. You are love/light, light/love. You are. This is the Law of One."

"The Law of One, though beyond the limitations of name, as you call vibratory sound complexes, may be approximated by stating that all things are one, that there is no polarity, no right or wrong, no disharmony, but only identity. All is one, and that one is love/light, light/love, the Infinite Creator."

Well to me we/i is always there, we are.. I am

All experience is a creation/distortion from complete balance and stasis...

All is now which is also illusory because you need difference to measure different "nows" making everything being "now" which makes the word irrelevant and only useful to us in 3D communicating.

So the one i am right now.. this identity i am... is created now from my state of being/essence... memories/details are filled accordingly...

In another words there is no real past or future they change in the present according to my essence and not the other way around as our 3D minds would think.

From my perspective what is the real story changes as my identity/mind also changes from my essence.

And being consciously aware of that gives me the tools to shape my experience of myself/creation.

Through my state of being and not so much the details that change.
I am able to use the details/thoughts/symbols as a temporary gauge.

So that is why memory is nothing more then a thought translated from a particular essence.

Past memory current one are the same thing.(to me)

I don't understand a lot of stuff from the details to existence itself but well this is the best theory that fits my experiences.
And i believe it to be true for me right (laughs) now.

[Conifer16]

What is imagination? This question has been interesting to me, and I've had many thoughts about that. Is imagination to take a thought? And then create something with it?

A person blind at birth cannot imagine an image. This scientifically shows us that all thought/consideration/memory is a patchwork of previous sensory recording.

I would think that once we have an imprint of something, we have access to all previous imprints of the same nature. This may place importance on the width of experience itself, combined with the importance of meditation as a way to connect things together, reorganizing them into (new to us) constructs/patterns that unlock the ability to connect to other "like" patterns.

Almost like we have to create a doorway by reconstructing recorded constructs into a key. On the other side of the veil maybe we don't have the nervous system available for "reconstruction", and only have the copies of experience.

I'm rambling.

How can we know? How can we know what this other person is seeing or not seeing? It isn't our mind. This person hears us ask "can you imagine what sight looks like" and the person replies "no" but if you didn't know what a palm tree was and yet were looking right at one you would answer the question "do you know what a palm tree is" with a "no" even though you can see it right in front of you. Therefor how can we truly "know" if the people in these tests aren't actually seeing things and not realizing it?

-Conifer17-
Peace and giggles

[godwide_void]

There exists none who have completely traversed this transitory level of experience and have returned, so all answers to this question remain purely speculation. Emulations of what possibly occurs at death may be experienced via the most intense of psychedelic/entheogenic experiences, and near-death experiences also constitute but one facet of what may possibly coincide upon entering the death-state, but what death truly entails remains a mystery.

This much can be drawn: it is a transition leading either to further levels of existence or to a disincarnate period of healing/life-reviewing before reincarnation into this density occurs, the temporary vehicle utilized here no longer exists beyond death except as a memory of this life, and the veil is basically lifted. The rest shall remain unknown until it is experienced.

[3DMonkey]

What happens when we die?

People who love us cry.

A funeral occurs.

Insurance does what it does.

For the rest of their lives, People who love us experience the catalyst of missing us. ... and might cry again.

This is what happens when we die.

[Oceania]

:/ how profound.

[Bring4th_Austin]

How can people have "memories" of past lives when most of our current details is lost when we die.

When I read the quote you're referring to, I don't see a clear-cut meaning behind it. As picky as Ra was about semantics.

"In your terms there is a great loss of mind complex due to the fact that much of the activity of the mental nature of which you are aware during the experience of this space/time continuum is as much of a surface illusion as is the chemical body complex."

Ra specifically states "activity," and doesn't mention anything about memories. Having a "great loss of mind complex" may simply mean losing certain faculties of the mind that we are accustomed to as 3D creatures, but not losing the memories we have already gained through those faculties. This interpretation also makes sense to me when followed up by the next segment:

"In other terms nothing whatever of importance is lost; the character or, shall we say, pure distortion of emotions and biases or distortions and wisdoms, if you will, becoming obvious for the first time, shall we say; these pure emotions and wisdoms and bias/distortions being, for the most part, either ignored or underestimated during physical life experience."

I feel like Ra is talking much more about personality here, not memories. We have gained a certain illusory identity on top of our true identity within our lifetimes that does not maintain after death, yet the memories of that identity remain.


However, I have also contemplated the idea of specific memories being lost and only emotional biases remain, and how that would come through as a "past life memory." The "emotional imprint" of the experience may remain with no specific details in place, and our mind sort of "fills in the blanks" using our current mind's biases. The memory recovered is emotionally identical, yet the specific illusion of the even has been colored by our mind.

This is all just speculation.


----


As for what I believe happens after death, I suppose there is no way to know for sure, and I am okay with that. Before discovering the Ra material and moving down a spiritual path, I went through a strict atheist phase where I was faced with the idea of total identity destruction upon my physical death. I became comfortable with this, so I have no real hopes for an afterlife. However, I have experienced intense situations of my consciousness being separate from my body, which drives my curiosity on the afterlife. I quite like Ra's description of the incarnative cycles and procedures.

[Oceania]

eternal not existing sounds disappointing but nice. somehow.

[godwide_void]

Eternal not existing as a possible scenario of post-death beingness doesn't sound feasible, otherwise the whole concept of densities and spiritual evolution kinda just goes right out the window!

[drifting pages]

Abridge i think our views are similar. There is nothing much more to say other then that, living in the moment is the door i find where i am not afraid anymore and where everything is as it should be....

Thanks everyone

[zenmaster]

Anyone seen the movie Cafe de Flore?