2007.03.25 The Female Orgasm

[Plenum]

taken from http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/is..._0325.aspx

. .

There is no function for the woman having an orgasm during sexual relations if the desire begins and ends in the sacred mission of creating a child. Therefore, the easy access, shall we say, to stimulation which would result naturally in orgasm, was covered over by folds which one could think of as petals of a rose. They are not defensive but they are protective and in an archetypal way. Just as the archetype of the potentiator [2] has a cover over the book of wisdom that she holds to her heart, so a woman’s womanhood has a veil that protects it from the casual stimulation of sexual congress.

In order to create a female orgasm, it is most often necessary for the mated pair to go about that in a careful and conscious manner. You have heard the phrase about pearls before swine, and we do not mean to insinuate or in any suggest that your physical bodies are swine. What we do mean to suggest is that the energy of red ray is an energy that cannot function as an energy transfer in the same sense in which we speak when we are talking about sacred sex.

Indeed, for the untutored entity who may indeed be fond of this lover, or even have decided to marry and take a spouse, these orange- and yellow-ray activities of personal relationship and legal relationship are not yet enough to create a true energy exchange. The only kind of energy exchange that is possible at this level is a one-way exchange from one entity to another. This has been experienced by many within personal relationships and within marriages.

And we feel it is safe to say that, in most people’s experience, this kind of sexual intercourse, left at the level of the relationship and without opening the heart to a great deal more than is suggested by the simple running of orange or yellow-ray energy, results in the typical exchange of energy, where one entity manipulates, uses or otherwise dominates another entity. Therefore, one is indeed giving energy to the other and the other is accepting that energy. It is an exchange of a kind but is tremendously prone to being abused and becoming a toxic kind of energy exchange where the honor, dignity and self-worth of the entity that is being controlled and manipulated comes into question by both mates.

Consequently, when we speak of true energy exchange, we must consider that the energy between two people has moved a very long way from that beginning red-ray attraction which eventually initiates sexual congress. It has gone from lust to a personal relationship and then often to a legal relationship or a committed relationship which is mated. And then the couple has the opportunity to ask for the Creator Itself to enter the sexual relationship through the open heart.

And so the couple that wishes to express sacred sexuality and to become entities who serve in a certain way in the environment of planet Earth agree together, very consciously, to set forth on a journey together in which they woo each other with true affection and patience, in which they see the Creator in each other, and in which they feel the power of the Creator’s love and the Creator’s light. Each mate dedicates itself to loving the other unconditionally.

This is green-ray affection and it is at this point that the female orgasm becomes useful. There are more miles to go indeed in exploring sacred sexuality, but this is where it begins.

When true affection has been established in a sexual relationship and when that sexuality has been dedicated to the Creator, to each other, and to planet Earth, then the path of progression, for a sexually maturing mated pair, is to spend a good deal of time working with the blue-ray energy of communication. Each entity that is involved in personal relationships and sexual relationships is an oddity, a one-of-a-kind item. That is why entities are so specific about whom they love. They become used to a certain flavor of being that this entity exudes or vibrates. And so they prefer that entity’s company.

Therefore, in communicating with each other, history is shared. The reasons for this quirk and that quirk become available, either because the mate understands herself or himself, or because you observe and become able to understand your mate all on your own.

Every piece of intelligence that you have, then, you see, is a kind of piece of power, as this song today was suggesting, “a golden feather, a heart of stone”[3]. What shall you do with this knowledge of each other? Shall you use it kindly or shall you use it to make points the next time you become upset over a trifle?

When working with sexual energy, it is very important to realize that you are dealing with enormously powerful forces, and therefore, as you become more intimate with your partner, you need to become ever more careful, ever more affectionate, and ever more thoughtful about how you say things as well as what you say. For you have become a powerful person to your mate and you wish to treat this mate with all the honor and respect that you would give to the Creator Himself or Herself.

You see, if you are a man, your mate is the feminine energy of the Creator. If you are a woman, your mate is the male energy of the Creator. Together, you make the full 360 degrees of Creatorship that takes in all the polarities that you both express. You have shared all that you are and you have become one with the Creator.

How can you, then, value the female orgasm? You value it by creating a safe atmosphere in which such a thing can take place. You value it by continuing an atmosphere of gentleness, honor, romance, if you will: those small things that, to the feminine temperament, indicate a genuine and deep interest and not simply the red-ray sexual energy of lust.

If you are a woman, you treasure yourself. You do not worry about having an orgasm, as if it were the same thing as a man’s orgasm for, my friends, it is not. Certainly it can be made rough and primitive. It can have the energy simply of sexual congress in the red ray. However, it is far more likely for the feminine temperament to appreciate what’s going on when that orgasm happens to her. For a woman tends to have more of a connection with the unseen world. So, she is actually more aware of the kind of energy that is pouring through her when she is expressing an orgasm physically.

Consequently, a woman in that position is a priestess, just as a man is a priest, in sexual intercourse when they are working together sacredly. But to the man goes that kind of energy that is called by this instrument “yang,” to the woman goes the energy that is considered by this instrument “yin,” so that, in the sexual energy exchange that is sacred in nature, from the man comes that powerful energy of physical wellness and vitality—that which you think of when you think of the word “masculine.”

What the feminine offers is the inspiration from spirit. That is the other portion of that male expression of strength, power and virility. The woman is expressing acceptance, unconditional love, and the energy of the Creator Itself. For you see, the woman, unlike man, is possessed of a direct route or connection to the womb of, shall we say, Mother Nature or the red-ray energy of planet Earth.

The woman has that sea of infinity and eternity flowing through her. She is much closer to her priestliness because she must tend to the circumstances of her menses monthly and she feels the pull of the moon, the tides, and her passions in a way that, generally speaking, men are not encouraged to do in your culture.

Consequently, if two entities choose to become magical in their sexual practice, they have the ability to become great ambassadors, if you will, of light. For as they consciously call up this power that they have together and give it to each other, when they are completely saturated and filled up with this energy of orgasm, they then allow that orgasm to shine, both into the world of time/space and the world of space/time.

In the world of time/space, it is a kind of birth of created light. You have, in your own way, lightened that expression of the Creator that is occurring upon your Earth at this particular moment. You have energized and healed, with your magically offered energy, the natural function of your sexuality. It is a long way from the red-ray disturbance of the senses that adds fire and color to the life by creating sexual desire and by giving a way for it to be fulfilled to the work in indigo where entities become sacred to each other in a very formal way, so that what they offer to the Creator and to the world is very consciously offered.

[Ankh]

Thank you for posting this session. I have not read this one before. It comfirms a lot of stuff that I had a hunch about. I loved everything that Q'uo said, but especially enjoyed reading about "each being an oddity, one-of-a-kind" and that's why one develops a bias towards specific flavor/s

[abstrktion]

  ASISHE SITS AND WAITS.jpg (Size: 75.33 KB / Downloads: 644) Thank you for the attitude of sacredness towards the Priestess. I call this painting "She Sits and Waits"--an idea based upon the Potentiator of Mind, the unconscious--and that concept seemed to have bearing on this thread.

One thing I'd like to bring up as well, the sacred nature of the man when he brings his full Godhood to bear in life and love. Respect must be accorded there. The man who, though tired and overwhelmed, often fearful of disappointing or letting others down, continues to move forward, is quite a wonder to behold. In our society, where so many shows mock "dad," and so many fathers just say "I just can't do it", where so many chose not to have any responsibilities to or for others, a man who choses to be the pillar upon which others can rely is amazing. The disciplined man who puts the needs of others high on his priorities--the man who gets up with the infant at night, goes to work during the day, comes home and helps keep house and then plays with the kids and the dog? Yeah, that guy's a true "Priest"--whether he studies spirituality or not, he lives it and he is "sacred" as well. Afterall, the Priestess, the potentiator, can only act when she is reached for and many men will refuse the call. Women would do well to recognize the Godhood in their mates, and our society sometimes makes this difficult. If every woman is all-women, the Goddess, so too is a man, every man, the God incarnate and love is an act of worship.

This may be a bit off topic (please forgive me, I'll delete this if anyone objects), but this leads me to the thought of support and women's judgment--we have a powerful role to uplift, expect the best, and believe in it in the men we love.

This makes me think of the play Death of a Salesman--the father has all sorts of delusions and problems, but he went to work every day, he loved his family, he tried his best, and at the last, he commits suicide to leave his family with the insurance money. (There's a great movie version with Dustin Hoffman if anyone is interested). At one point, the wife says

"I don't say he's a great man. Willie Loman never made a lot of money. His name was never in the paper. He's not the finest character that ever lived. But he's a human being, and a terrible thing is happening to him. So attention must be paid. He's not to be allowed to fall in his grave like an old dog. Attention, attention must finally be paid to such a person."
Linda, regarding Willy. Act I

Another play, Raisin in the Sun, also offers wisdom about the treatment of people when they are down and how each deserves dignity. This is Mama talking to her daughter about her son:

“Beneatha: Love him? There is nothing left to love.

Mama: There is always something left to love. And if you ain't learned that, you ain't learned nothing. (Looking at her) Have you cried for that boy today? I don't mean for yourself and for the family 'cause we lost the money. I mean for him: what he been through and what it done to him. Child, when do you think is the time to love somebody the most? When they done good and made things easy for everybody? Well then, you ain't through learning - because that ain't the time at all. It's when he's at his lowest and can't believe in hisself 'cause the world done whipped him so! when you starts measuring somebody, measure him right, child, measure him right. Make sure you done taken into account what hills and valleys he come through before he got to wherever he is.”
― Lorraine Hansberry, A Raisin in the Sun

I love teaching literature. So many beautiful lessons lie within.

[Monica]

Mmmm...good stuff. Thanks for posting this.

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This may be a bit off topic (please forgive me, I'll delete this if anyone objects),

Not at all! It's very much on-topic.

but this leads me to the thought of support and women's judgment--we have a powerful role to uplift, expect the best, and believe in it in the men we love.

Agreed!

I love teaching literature. So many beautiful lessons lie within.

Absolutely! I sought out the best books when I homeschooled my son, as part of his 'character building' curriculum. (Not that is off-topic! But I'd love to participate in a discussion about the spiritual lessons and archetypal energies in literature, if you'd like to start a thread about that.)

[Cyan]

This topic encourages me to make a joke about it being a myth.

But jokes aside, the female orgasam is one of the best things ever invented. It is something that is purely for the sake of producing pleasure for both parties. The height of it spleasure has no primary reproductive purpose unlike the male equivelant. So, it is one of those "see, evolution produces purely enjoyable things too".

That is my present view, will probably be different tomorrow =)

[kycahi]

I contend that the female orgasm, which is much much greater than the male one, has a certain property where the female person might only reach it one time in, say, 3 or 5, or more. The high pleasure level is a kind of compensation for the female enduring the pangs of childbirth.

The successful reaching of it being kind of random is the way nature keeps the female wanting to try again and again, knowing that it will be worth it. This is not to minimize the compassionate nature of the female willing to "go through the motions" for her partner's fun, nor for the benefit of conceiving a new human. They are real, but nature won't depend on those alone for keeping the female "in the hunt." (Bless 'em.)

[Monica]

I contend that the female orgasm, which is much much greater than the male one, has a certain property where the female person might only reach it one time in, say, 3 or 5, or more.

1 in 3-5+?

[BrownEye]

The female can intensify the orgasm by opening all chakras Sacral on up, or putting them in "overdrive".

[JustLikeYou]

Thank you plenum, for this beautiful session. I've never read it before. I am so glad that some of the Ra material gets cleared up through later contacts.

Thank you abstrktion for your comment also. It was equally uplifting.

Finally, I'd also like to add that my own experience (with only one mate) tells me that the female orgasm can be just as frequent as the male if not more frequent. A common misconception is that male endurance is required to bring the female to orgasm. I do not think that this is so. Endurance is always good if you want a deep magical act, but it is certainly not necessary for female orgasm (at least on an archetypical level -- your individual levels are your own).

My experience tells me that the ability to connect on this sacred level is precisely what makes the female orgasm more reliable (and it also brings the two into unison). But this achievement must be reciprocal. It is the male's responsibility to focus on the female (and not himself), just as much as it this is so for the female. The simultaneous orgasm is as the decenscion of the Divine into our incarnate bodies and it is they who decide that orgasm will occur, not we. We need not worry about it, or expect it. We will come to know when it is time.

[Ankh]

Finally, I'd also like to add that my own experience (with only one mate) tells me that the female orgasm can be just as frequent as the male if not more frequent.

This is my personal experience as well. I am a female and have not problems with that. Are you female or male yourself?

My experience tells me that the ability to connect on this sacred level is precisely what makes the female orgasm more reliable (and it also brings the two into unison). But this achievement must be reciprocal. It is the male's responsibility to focus on the female (and not himself), just as much as it this is so for the female. The simultaneous orgasm is as the decenscion of the Divine into our incarnate bodies and it is they who decide that orgasm will occur, not we. We need not worry about it, or expect it. We will come to know when it is time.

My personal experience is that the male doesn't even need to focus on the female. I'll get it anyway. What sometimes makes it of deeper pleasure though, is my own consciously chosen focus on giving, and opening up to him. It can also be, but only at some extent, governed with the will, or mind. Would you like to elaborate your first sentence?

[Monica]

Both men and women can have multiple orgasms and extended orgasms, but it comes more easily to women. I suspect this was intentionally part of the design. A sexual encounter with the higher chakras flowing can result in the nurturing of the male by what is fondly referred to as 'female essence.'

This isn't just physical but very, very spiritual.

There are lots of books and even seminars for teaching men how to achieve what comes naturally to women, but in my experience, it has much more to do with the relationship than with physical techniques.

When both partners give fully of themselves to the other, not just sexually but in everyday life, thus strengthening their trust, commitment and emotional intimacy, then the sexual relationship can deepen over time. There's no such thing as boredom in the bedroom, because it becomes an experience in consciousness, not just physical. There's a lot to be said about long-term monogamous relationships.

My interpretation of Ra's words on the subject is that women have a sacred responsibility to help guide men from mere lust (lower chakras only) to the spiritual expression of sexuality (communion on the higher chakras also).

[Ali Quadir]

women have a sacred responsibility to help guide men from mere lust (lower chakras only) to the spiritual expression of sexuality (communion on the higher chakras also).

I think I misunderstand you. Because from our private communications I understand you to have a husband who is a gentleman and not some sexual predator whom you trained to inhibit his natural behaviors!

What you seem to express here however, is often expressed by our civilisation. Girls are sugar spice and everything nice. While boys are slime snails and puppy dog tails.

These however are the same beliefs as "women should not think too hard or they'll hurt their brains"... And "women have a sacred duty to always be subservient to their men".

There was a revolution in the 60's that taught everyone that girls are equal to boys and that all those sexists beliefs are inappropriate. Maybe we need another revolution?

Men are on the whole reliable responsible providers and caretakers. They are perfectly able to deal with and express their emotions. They just do it differently from girls.

I submit that we are equals.. I suggest that the male psyche is poorly understood by most women, and for that matter by most men. Thanks to the sexual revolutions the public image of women is now far closer to what women truly are. But for men we're still troubled by misconceptions.

The whole orgasm fiasco is really only an extention of this problem. Women are perfectly able to achieve orgasm every single time, providing that some conditions are met.

[Shemaya]

taken from http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/is..._0325.aspx


What the feminine offers is the inspiration from spirit. That is the other portion of that male expression of strength, power and virility. The woman is expressing acceptance, unconditional love, and the energy of the Creator Itself. For you see, the woman, unlike man, is possessed of a direct route or connection to the womb of, shall we say, Mother Nature or the red-ray energy of planet Earth.

The woman has that sea of infinity and eternity flowing through her. She is much closer to her priestliness because she must tend to the circumstances of her menses monthly and she feels the pull of the moon, the tides, and her passions in a way that, generally speaking, men are not encouraged to do in your culture.

I have found that as I cleared and opened the red and orange ray, my sexual nature has grown and expanded incredibly and is definitely a source of inspiration for my husband.

In a long-term relationship though, this clearing is done together on one level and also individually. I think of marriage/ long-term mating as a sacrament and an opportunity to clear and tune and open up our bodies to the divine, that is how it has been for me. My husband and I have had alot to work through stemming from childhood issues and abuses, I am usually the one who wants to confront and tackle the challenges that these wounds and knots gave us in relationship, he is more content if everything "looks good".

For a female, healing the relationship to self, expanding self love is key. (Probably for men too, am speaking for myself) As I have opened up and cleared those lower chakras I find my husband is more attracted to me and more energized to do his thing which is an expression of "strength, power, and virility". And more appreciative of me as well, which mirrors my expanded self-love.

Regarding orgasm, definitely things have changed with that in 20 + years, when the setting is right and the energy is open, we've had the experience fully clothed laying next to one another and embracing, where my body was in orgasm. My husband was not sure how that happened, but I know he liked it and was kind of amazed.

So for me it has been totally related to my own healing process and opening up my energy . But I also give him feedback. So instead of saying" your hot" (his favorite compliment), now he may come out with a sincere, "You are radiant" which I find especially complementary.

[Monica]

I think I misunderstand you. Because from our private communications I understand you to have a husband who is a gentleman and not some sexual predator whom you trained to inhibit his natural behaviors!

LOL! The idea of 'training' my husband made me literally LOL. No, I wasn't referring to my personal relationship, but to men and women in general.

What you seem to express here however, is often expressed by our civilisation. Girls are sugar spice and everything nice. While boys are slime snails and puppy dog tails.

These however are the same beliefs as "women should not think too hard or they'll hurt their brains"... And "women have a sacred duty to always be subservient to their men".

You have definitely misunderstood me. I'm most definitely not saying anything about subservience. Eeeewwww! No, nothing like that.

The key word here is sacred.

A spiritual aspirant, whether male or female, would view the sexual act as potentially sacred. The partners have different roles to play.

Not lesser. Different.

87.27 Questioner: Would you do that?
Ra: I am Ra. You are correct in assuming that the energy of which we speak in discussing sexual energy transfers is a form of vibratory bridge between space/time and time/space. Although this distinction is not apart from that which follows, that which follows may shed light upon that basic statement.

Due to the veiling process the energy transferred from male to female is different than that transferred from female to male. Due to the polarity difference of the mind/body/spirit complexes of male and female the male stores physical energy, the female mental and mental/emotional energy. When third-density sexual energy transfer is completed the male will have offered the discharge of physical energy. The female is, thereby, refreshed, having far less physical vitality. At the same time, if you will use this term, the female discharges the efflux of its stored mental and mental/emotional energy, thereby offering inspiration, healing, and blessing to the male which by nature is less vital in this area.

There was a revolution in the 60's that taught everyone that girls are equal to boys and that all those sexists beliefs are inappropriate. Maybe we need another revolution?

Equal is not same. Men and women are equal, but they are not the same.

The 60s sex revolution was important and necessary, so that women would no longer be subservient. This doesn't, however, change the fact that men and women are inherently different.

And, as with the workplace, the 'liberation' can be taken too far; ie., women became liberated in that they are now able to compete in the workplace. But is it really liberation if a woman must hide her femininity and dress like a man, in order to be taken seriously?

I recently stumbled upon a discussion forum for female professionals. It seemed to be populated by mostly female attorneys. They were commiserating about how they couldn't have long hair. The ones who were courageous enough to keep their long hair had to wear it pulled back in a bun of some sort.

Is this really liberation?

Likewise, are women sexually liberated only if they participate in lower-chakra level sex? ie. pretending that an emotional connection doesn't matter and they can separate sex from emotion just as well as men can?

Or is this a suppression of the very gifts that women were given to evolve spiritually?

I submit that we are equals.. I suggest that the male psyche is poorly understood by most women, and for that matter by most men. Thanks to the sexual revolutions the public image of women is now far closer to what women truly are. But for men we're still troubled by misconceptions.

We are speaking in generalities. Both men and women cover a wide spectrum of psyches and behaviors, and levels of spiritual development. There are misconceptions on both sides, and in some cases, they aren't misconceptions. We have to take into consideration that humans are evolving.

The whole orgasm fiasco is really only an extention of this problem. Women are perfectly able to achieve orgasm every single time, providing that some conditions are met.

Of course they are. But it is a biological fact that the female sexual response is different from the male's. There is an old adage from Chinese sexual teachings that may have a grain of truth to it:

(Paraphrased)

Generally speaking, the emotional component is more important to women than to men in the initial stages of sexual arousal, whereas men are better able to feel their emotions after a satisfying sexual encounter. In other words, an emotional connection leads to better sex for the woman; whereas, better sex for the man can lead to a deeper emotional connection.

So say the Chinese sages.

This seems to correlate with what Ra says.

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Note: Post has been edited and added to.

[Diana]

There was a revolution in the 60's that taught everyone that girls are equal to boys and that all those sexists beliefs are inappropriate. Maybe we need another revolution?

Equal is not same. Men and women are equal, but they are not the same.

Equal means that no thing is better than any other thing. All things are equal. We are all things manifested from the same source. We express differently (male, female for instance) but we are still equal.

This would be the next phase of the 60's revolution, to recognize all things as equal (we are all things).

[Ali Quadir]

LOL! The idea of 'training' my husband made me literally LOL. No, I wasn't referring to my personal relationship, but to men and women in general.

Does this mean you are saying that "other men require to be guided by women to be able to express their sexuality in a spiritual way other than merely as lust" while your husband is the exception to this rule?

What you seem to express here however, is often expressed by our civilisation. Girls are sugar spice and everything nice. While boys are slime snails and puppy dog tails.

These however are the same beliefs as "women should not think too hard or they'll hurt their brains"... And "women have a sacred duty to always be subservient to their men".

You have definitely misunderstood me. I'm most definitely not saying anything about subservience. Eeeewwww! No, nothing like that.

Ah we agree on that But do you also agree with me that "the idea that motivations for sex for men and women are totally different" is as sexist and nonsensical as the idea that women are naturally subservient to men?

Because I thought you suggested that in your message, and it's what I was triggered by.. But distortion is of course everywhere... especially in internet communication..

There was a revolution in the 60's that taught everyone that girls are equal to boys and that all those sexists beliefs are inappropriate. Maybe we need another revolution?

Equal is not same. Men and women are equal, but they are not the same.

I never called the sexes same... I called them equal, but that was not the essential content of my communication. I called the sexist beliefs inappropriate. And that is my point. I often read opinions about what men and women are supposed to be.

The 60s sex revolution was important and necessary, so that women would no longer be subservient. This doesn't, however, change the fact that men and women are inherently different,

I never denied or claimed that we were different. I suggested many societal ideas about what men and women are inappropriate.

Just as a thought experiment.. Can you name one relevant aspect where men and women are inherently different? And can you express this in down to earth terms. So that I can explain it to my next door neighbor who is not spiritually inclined? Because I can't, other than naming the x and y chromosomes.

Mind you "inherent" means there can be no man or woman who deviates from this inherent truth. The quality comes inherent with your gender. Again. I often read about what men and women are supposed to be.. But it never goes for every man or every woman.

It's as if people are talking about stereotypes in their mind and not about real people.

Of course they are. But it is a biological fact that the female sexual response is different from the male's. There is an old adage from Chinese sexual teachings that may have a grain of truth to it:

Generally speaking, the emotional component is more important to women than to men in the initial stages of sexual arousal, whereas men are better able to feel their emotions after a satisfying sexual encounter. In other words, an emotional connection equals better sex for the woman; whereas, better sex for the man can lead to a deeper emotional connection.

While I see beauty in the symmetry of this theory, I don't believe it to be correct.. I think better sex leads to a deeper emotional connection for both genders. I think an emotional connection leads to better sexual experience for both genders. I personally need an emotional connection before I can enjoy sex. And I know for a fact that most men are like this. I know more women than men who have no problem picking up random guys just to scratch an itch.

Let me put it this way. It is not appropriate to tell someone what to think and or feel because of the color of his or her skin. While it is undeniable that in broad generalisations we can point out differences between groups of people based on the color of their skins. But we all know that the difference between two selected people of the same color can easily be much bigger than the differences between two selected people of different color.

The same obviously goes for men and women. I'm not saying we're the same or that we're different. Just that whenever someone says something like "A man is this" or "A woman is that" they usually express inappropriate sexist views. And I'm all like that myself.. I often say things like "A real man should ... !" Be a provider, be confident, be strong, be in control... But it always goes for a woman too.

[Monica]

Does this mean you are saying that "other men require to be guided by women to be able to express their sexuality in a spiritual way other than merely as lust" while your husband is the exception to this rule?

No, not at all. I'm not saying any man is "required" to be anything. I'm saying that Ra's words make sense to me.

Ah we agree on that

Whew!

Actually, we agree on a lot. It may seem like we're disagreeing, but I actually agree with most of what you said, in regards to 3D relationships.

I think the reason our conversation seems to be taking 2 different tracks is that, while I agree with your comments about 3D relationships, ie., wherein people are tasked with opening the heart, my comments are primarily referring to sexual energy transfer at the level of the higher chakras.

But do you also agree with me that "the idea that motivations for sex for men and women are totally different" is as sexist and nonsensical as the idea that women are naturally subservient to men?

I understand what you're getting at here, and of course I agree, in general. Of course there are many men with wide open hearts, and many women who just want to "scratch an itch." And that's not even taking into consideration gays, transgenders, and other complexities.

(Speaking of whom, I'd like to extend apologies if any of this conversation is offensive to any gays who might be reading this. My own comments are focused on the male-female relationship, because that's the only kind I know anything about, and because I'm primarily interested in exploring Ra's words on the subject. My words are not intended to exclude or judge those with different sexuality.)

I never called the sexes same... I called them equal, but that was not the essential content of my communication. I called the sexist beliefs inappropriate. And that is my point.

Agreed. Which is why I must clarify: My comments are directed at the sexual energy exchange at the higher chakras, which applies to a very small segment of the population, and aren't directed at people in general.

I often read opinions about what men and women are supposed to be.

What do you think about the Ra quote? How do you interpret and apply Ra's words?

Just as a thought experiment.. Can you name one relevant aspect where men and women are inherently different?

Their plumbing is different. And women can make babies and men can't.

According to ancient Chinese secrets, the way the energy percolates and finally explodes, is different for men than for women.

And can you express this in down to earth terms. So that I can explain it to my next door neighbor who is not spiritually inclined? Because I can't, other than naming the x and y chromosomes.

I don't think you need to explain it to your next door neighbor. This is a discussion about sexuality from a Law of One perspective.

Mind you "inherent" means there can be no man or woman who deviates from this inherent truth. The quality comes inherent with your gender. Again. I often read about what men and women are supposed to be.. But it never goes for every man or every woman.

Would you agree that the archetypal energies that animate us all, are inherently the same for everyone? But just the expression of each may vary?

It's as if people are talking about stereotypes in their mind and not about real people.

I'm not talking about stereotypes at all. I agree with you that stereotypes aren't cool.

I'm talking about archetypal energies. Those are the same, but may be in different stages of expression, depending on the person.

The female energy resides in both males and females, and vice versa. And in those with non-conventional sexualities, the configuration may be quite different. For example, 2 gay men...1 might be much more in touch with his emotions than the other. As another example, think of a woman who isn't in touch with her emotions mated with a man who is very in touch with his emotions. For them, the roles might be reversed. But the energies are the same.

Does this clarify?

While I see beauty in the symmetry of this theory, I don't believe it to be correct.. I think better sex leads to a deeper emotional connection for both genders.

The key word there was initial.

This is of course a generalization, but having read the original texts, they were saying that women tend to get more aroused when they are emotionally connected, whereas men tended to not have any trouble with arousal, whether they were emotionally connected or not. This may be true for men too, but the emotional connection tends to be more important for women, at the foreplay stage. Yes yes this is a stereotype but that doesn't mean there isn't truth in it. Just relaying what the Chinese sages said...which, again, I think correlates to what Ra said, generally speaking.

Obviously there are all sorts of exceptions and deviations. But, as an archetypal pattern, if it's true, I don't think it's demeaning to either sex in any way. Rather, it may help explain traditional stereotypes.

Men and women have both broken free of traditional stereotypes to a large degree, but there might also have been something lost in the process.

I think an emotional connection leads to better sexual experience for both genders. I personally need an emotional connection before I can enjoy sex. And I know for a fact that most men are like this. I know more women than men who have no problem picking up random guys just to scratch an itch.

A woman picking up some random guy just to "scratch an itch" isn't likely to have an energy exchange in the higher chakras, in that encounter.

[Diana]

Just as a thought experiment.. Can you name one relevant aspect where men and women are inherently different? And can you express this in down to earth terms. So that I can explain it to my next door neighbor who is not spiritually inclined? Because I can't, other than naming the x and y chromosomes.

Men have (in general, in 3D) higher testosterone levels.

To insure that the species survived, evolution mandated that the males must procreate as much as possible. (Look at animal herds, where there is an alpha male and many females). Hence the higher testosterone levels which compel the male to inseminate.

The females had the offspring, so the duties (in general) that fell to the females revolved around caring for the young, which extended to caring for the herd (community). For instance, the doe in my area take turns babysitting the new fauns while the other "mothers" forage.

The males also, being stronger, hunted dangerous animals to provide food.

This is our evolutionary history.

We are now in a shift to move past evolutionary mandates because of conscious choice. But overriding the survival hardwiring, based in our reptilian and mammalian brains, will take some doing.

We are all trying to balance this now. So, there is still a physiological difference in the male and female bodies' objectives, which drive some of our behaviors, and it seems obvious that it would affect sexuality and sexual behaviors and motivations.

This is not to say it cannot be transcended, but must be considered.

[Ali Quadir]

@Monica
I read you... I think we basically agree. And that you'd agree that the essential difference between man and woman is not easily defined. I don't think speaking of direction of spiritual energy helps us very much.. We can't really test those theories. The meat of the matter seems to be merely physical traits and general tendencies. The latter is extremely influenced by culture.

@Diana
You refer to the stereotypical image of our species evolution. These are not at all fixed in stone. We simply presume that the males went to hunt for the dangerous animals while the women stayed at home to take care of the children and foraged for food.

This is partly true, partly an idea our post victorian era biologists had... If we look at our next of kin animals. There is for most members of a pack not a strict separation into male and female roles. If you're not looking at the alpha male, then a male is still a male isn't he? When we look at primitive earth tribes today. The strict separation of roles is extremely rare. Not that there are no general differences. Women tend to gather more and men tend to hunt more dangerous animals. But women hunt too, and men obviously gather plants too.. There are so many exceptions to these supposedly fixed rules that they are more likely to be firmly held beliefs than real facts of life.. (There are actual tribes out there in which the women do the hunting)

Procreating as often as possible is for human males simply a recipe for disaster. A man who procreates as often as possible will have kids who have no available father. A man who procreates less and provides more will have stronger kids who are more likely to survive and grow strong.. The male female pairing is evolved into mankind... It is certainly not contrary to male psychology. This is one of those sexist beliefs that has entered into our society. But look at males. They are still acting their primitive behavior patterns. And they're not procreating as often as they can. Most of them are trying very hard to find one good woman and if they have trouble at all it's that they don't know how to be a man for that woman... Evolutionists call this theory you speak from the selfish gene theory.. But the fact is that reality doesn't obey that theory.

Human society is clearly not defined by alpha males. It's very rare you find a true alpha male in real life.

I guess when you really try to put your finger on the differences. When you really try to get to the core of the matter it just vanishes and proves to be a highly unreliable discerning factor.. To me it really boils down to vague patterns in behavior. And the degree to which these are truly embedded in our gender or just ideas we have about our gender is hard to discern.

[Monica]

Procreating as often as possible is for human males simply a recipe for disaster.

Men aren't procreating as much as they did before readily available contraception, but the biological urge is still there, which is considered by many 'experts' to be the explanation for higher rates of infidelity among men than among women:

22 percent of married men have strayed at least once during their married lives.
14 percent of married women have had affairs at least once during their married lives.
Conservative infedelity statistics estimate that "60 percent of men and 40 percent of women will have an extramarital affair.

http://womansavers.com/infidelity-statistics.asp

More interesting statistics, backing up the premise that women 'tend' to have more of an emotional connection to sex than men:

Women are less likely to cheat than men. While estimates of infidelity are difficult to establish, surveys consistently reveal that wives tend to be more faithful than husbands.
When a wife does cheat on her husband, she is more likely to have an emotional affair. Women are less likely than men to have a one night stand.
Because women are more likely to have an emotional affair, cheating wives tend to cheat with someone who is part of their social group – a friend, a co-worker, someone from school, church, etc.
A cheating wife is also more likely to swap up when she cheats. Cheating wives tend to have affairs with men who have more status and resources than their husbands. Or women cheat with men who are better relational partners – someone who is more attentive, appreciative and understanding.
A cheating wife is also more likely to consider leaving her husband when she is having an affair. Because female infidelity tends to be based on emotional intimacy, women often attach more significance to an affair.

http://www.truthaboutdeception.com/cheat...-wife.html

Men are more likely than women to cheat. It is estimated that close to 50% of all men will cheat at some point in their lives (see, why men cheat).
Husbands are also more likely to engage in online cheating – using chat rooms, webcams and online services to arrange sexual encounters (including prostitution).
The more money a husband makes, the more likely he is to be unfaithful. Having more money brings more opportunity and wealth tends to attract more women (also see, who is likely to cheat).
A lack of sexual excitement or the routine of having sex with the same person often leads men to stray. Men are more likely to be drawn to the thrill of having sex with someone new (also see, Coolidge Effect).
A cheating husband is more likely to have an affair with someone who is younger than his wife.
When having a one-night stand, men are less choosy than women when it comes to selecting someone to have sex with.
Husbands are more likely to feel that cheating is justified due to the lack of sex within a marriage.
Husbands are much more likely than wives to be serial cheaters (also see, husband constantly cheats and cheating husband survey).

http://www.truthaboutdeception.com/cheat...sband.html

The above 2 sites have references to back up the stats.

This is one of those sexist beliefs that has entered into our society.

I don't think so. It's not sexist to face the statistics. It is what it is. Statistically, men cheat more. They have more 1-night stands. They take longer to commit. When they do cheat, it's with women who are more attractive than their wives, so physical appearance is more of a factor; whereas with women (statistically) the emotional connection is more often a factor.

Of course there are plenty of exceptions. But these are just the statistics, showing the overall pattern.

But the fact is that reality doesn't obey that theory.

It may be that the theory is wrong, but the statistics clearly do show a difference in male and female behavior.

Human society is clearly not defined by alpha males. It's very rare you find a true alpha male in real life.

This is surprising to me. I've observed many men engaging in 1-upmanship my entire life. I see it all the time in men. In the workplace, in schools, etc. There are numerous books written about how men tend to try to outdo one another, while women tend to bond with one another.

Again, yes these traits are found in both men and women. But, I don't think the 'alpha male' behavior is rare at all.

Edit: There is an 'Alpha Female' type as well. It helps to remember that our planet is inhabited by people from, what, 13 different planets of origin? So a lot of the theories based on the (false) notion of a single species evolving from apes, fall flat because they fail to take that into consideration.

[Monica]

Related thread:

Life on Planet Earth > Sexual addiction! and Male-Female energy roles/energies

[Ankh]

Monica, I am not sure about Ali, but this is the sentence that I personally reacted at:

My interpretation of Ra's words on the subject is that women have a sacred responsibility to help guide men from mere lust (lower chakras only) to the spiritual expression of sexuality (communion on the higher chakras also).

First of all, you mean Q'uo, right? This is a Q'uo session that we are discussing here, not the Ra material. You continue saying Ra in your later posts, when I think that you mean Q'uo, but we'll see. The Ra quote that you made in this thread though, goes definitely with this topic as well, in order to illuminate some things:

87.27 Questioner: Would you do that?
Ra: I am Ra. You are correct in assuming that the energy of which we speak in discussing sexual energy transfers is a form of vibratory bridge between space/time and time/space. Although this distinction is not apart from that which follows, that which follows may shed light upon that basic statement.

Due to the veiling process the energy transferred from male to female is different than that transferred from female to male. Due to the polarity difference of the mind/body/spirit complexes of male and female the male stores physical energy, the female mental and mental/emotional energy. When third-density sexual energy transfer is completed the male will have offered the discharge of physical energy. The female is, thereby, refreshed, having far less physical vitality. At the same time, if you will use this term, the female discharges the efflux of its stored mental and mental/emotional energy, thereby offering inspiration, healing, and blessing to the male which by nature is less vital in this area.

Prerequisite for the sexual energy transfer is that the energy has reached the green center, or the heart. I believe that in the quote that plenum provided about female orgasm, Q'uo addresses that kind of energy transfer when they are talking about sacred sex.

So, I believe that saying that it is women's responsibility to "guide men from mere lust (lower chakras only) to the spiritual expression of sexuality (communion on the higher chakras also)", is not what Q'uo or Ra said.

If we look at the Ra quote now, Ra says that the male stores physical energy, while female stores mental or mental/emotional energy. If both reach the green center, they can exchange these energies with each other. There is nothing in that particular quote that says that women need some kind of prerequisite in order to create a safe atmosphere for women to have an orgasm. However, Q'uo addresses this matter:

How can you, then, value the female orgasm? You value it by creating a safe atmosphere in which such a thing can take place. You value it by continuing an atmosphere of gentleness, honor, romance, if you will: those small things that, to the feminine temperament, indicate a genuine and deep interest and not simply the red-ray sexual energy of lust.

You see here that Q'uo are talking about the whole atmosphere and not only about the initial stages. Mind also their choice of word "value" when speaking of a female orgasm. However, Ra said that this orgasm is not necessary for the sexual energy transfer to occur:

Questioner: I am trying to determine whether the direction of energy transfer is a function of orgasm. Which entity gets the transferred energy? I know it’s a dumb question, but I want to be sure that I have it cleared up.

Ra: I am Ra. If both entities are well polarized and vibrating in green-ray love any orgasm shall offer equal energy to both.

Q'ou talk *specifically* about the female orgasm in this session, and not about men's. Nevertheless, what they are saying is that:

Consequently, if two entities choose to become magical in their sexual practice, they have the ability to become great ambassadors, if you will, of light. For as they consciously call up this power that they have together and give it to each other, when they are completely saturated and filled up with this energy of orgasm, they then allow that orgasm to shine, both into the world of time/space and the world of space/time.

In the world of time/space, it is a kind of birth of created light. You have, in your own way, lightened that expression of the Creator that is occurring upon your Earth at this particular moment. You have energized and healed, with your magically offered energy, the natural function of your sexuality.

Women may guide men, but it is done *after* they have both reached the heart center, and become magical, but mind how much they use word "together".

Which is, interesting enough, a bit contradictory to what Ra says in this matter:

It will be noted that once green ray energy transfer has been achieved by two mind/body/spirits in mating, the further rays are available without both entities having the necessity to progress equally.

(Paraphrased)

Generally speaking, the emotional component is more important to women than to men in the initial stages of sexual arousal, whereas men are better able to feel their emotions after a satisfying sexual encounter. In other words, an emotional connection leads to better sex for the woman; whereas, better sex for the man can lead to a deeper emotional connection.

So say the Chinese sages.

This seems to correlate with what Ra says.

Did you mean Ra or Q'uo?

I think the reason our conversation seems to be taking 2 different tracks is that, while I agree with your comments about 3D relationships, ie., wherein people are tasked with opening the heart, my comments are primarily referring to sexual energy transfer at the level of the higher chakras.

I think that confusion between two of you started with the post, where you stated that women are tasked to guide men from mere lust, or lower centers, to the higher ones, to which Ali replied in the first place. Then you said the above and this is where confusion started.

This is of course a generalization, but having read the original texts, they were saying that women tend to get more aroused when they are emotionally connected, whereas men tended to not have any trouble with arousal, whether they were emotionally connected or not. This may be true for men too, but the emotional connection tends to be more important for women, at the foreplay stage. Yes yes this is a stereotype but that doesn't mean there isn't truth in it. Just relaying what the Chinese sages said...which, again, I think correlates to what Ra said, generally speaking.

Which specific Ra quote's does the above correlates to?

[Ali Quadir]

I think that confusion between two of you started with the post, where you stated that women are tasked to guide men from mere lust, or lower centers, to the higher ones, to which Ali replied in the first place. Then you said the above and this is where confusion started.

I would agree. To say it lightly: I'm allergic to everything that suggests that either is the superior sex. It's rubbish... We're equals. And a lot of the "Men are this and women are that" arguments are the result of societal beliefs, not of fact.. Meaning that they keep us in the cycles of sexual inequality. Belief shapes behavior.

Procreating as often as possible is for human males simply a recipe for disaster.

Men aren't procreating as much as they did before readily available contraception, but the biological urge is still there,

Obviously any act of procreation requires one male and one female.

In history at the time when male psychology was formed. There were not as many women available to procreate with as you might think. In fact the size of the nomadic tribes was small, large families not much more. And there was relative equality between men and women. Meaning that you can't force a woman to have sex with you, if you did you would be cast out of the tribe... Or worse... So the only way for a man to procreate would be to successfully seduce a woman and have her fall in love with you.. Ergo, the emotional bond is vitally important to a male's success to procreate... An additional issue is that if a man struck out with 1 woman. Then all other viable women would likely be her friends. So striking out with one means failing to reproduce, unless you can find another tribe to join with which is a dangerous move at best.

In males today you see that most men would rather wait forever than approach the girl they're really head over heels in love with.. And that is the true psychology of the male. Not the lust oriented animal that you like the rest of society depicts. Yes those exist. But it would be the same as saying that women are subservient creatures who like, or need, a strong man to tell them what to do.

A man who wanted to have sex as often as possible in society today would play numbers rather than have an enormous crush on an individual. Yet more men have enormous crushes on a single woman than men playing the numbers game. It's simply not how we're programmed to act.

(The numbers game is running from woman to woman untill one bites)

You're saying the urge is still there, I am saying the urge is equal in men and women.

which is considered by many 'experts' to be the explanation for higher rates of infidelity among men than among women:

Those cheating numbers are debatable..

It is very likely that women in your numbers cheat less because they were more dependent on their husband. With full equality, women and men are likely to cheat on an equal basis. Check your sources they'll say the same thing.

This is one of those sexist beliefs that has entered into our society.

I don't think so. It's not sexist to face the statistics. It is what it is. Statistically, men cheat more. They have more 1-night stands. They take longer to commit. When they do cheat, it's with women who are more attractive than their wives, so physical appearance is more of a factor; whereas with women (statistically) the emotional connection is more often a factor.

You know the saying: "There is lies, bloody lies and statistics.." Go back to your statistics and check the behavior of women who are on a basis of equality with their men. You'll see that their cheating behavior is also more equal..

This is what I mean with society imposing certain attitudes on the behavior of men and women. It was an actual fact before the sexual revolutions that women were less intelligent than men as measured by IQ tests. (They were not encouraged to use their brains!) It was even an actual fact for a while that women had no sexual urges at all. (Remember female hysteria?) It's not sexist... It's science! Sorry girl, but your labia drive your hysteria! Fortunately we outgrew those foolish notions... But there is clearly more to do.

You're arguing that men on the whole are only after sex. That they don't care about the women they're having sex with. And that sex is less of an emotional experience for men... This is insulting and sexist. It is understandable because of societies apparent belief in these myths... But never the less sexist in the same way that women can't think properly and should be subservient to their men.

Imagine a society where every man and woman has these mistaken beliefs, what kind of effect will that have on the self respect of men? What do you see in society today?

But the fact is that reality doesn't obey that theory.

It may be that the theory is wrong, but the statistics clearly do show a difference in male and female behavior.

Statistics measures only the end results of effects and influences on behavior... Statistics are not to be mistaken for inherent behavior. Yet that is what you're doing...

In a smog rich environment people are statistically more likely to have respiratory related health problems. What you're doing is analogous to assuming this is because they're inherently likely to have those problems...

Again I totally get where you're coming from. I believed this crap myself up to little over a year ago... I believed women were good and men were bad. I believed that there was something inherently wrong with masculinity.

Human society is clearly not defined by alpha males. It's very rare you find a true alpha male in real life.

This is surprising to me. I've observed many men engaging in 1-upmanship my entire life. I see it all the time in men. In the workplace, in schools, etc. There are numerous books written about how men tend to try to outdo one another, while women tend to bond with one another.

This is what I call competition among males. Not alpha male behavior... An alpha male does not require what you call 1-upmanship... Generally the individuals with high social status engage in less self proving behavior. It is the individuals low in social status who feel the need to prove themselves. Lower in the pecking order there's a lot more pecking.

When I was in a student dorm, I had for some reason de-facto respect. Everyone was running around pecking at each other, but they never ever bothered me. They respected me even if we kept a little distance. Maybe it was because I was a bit older, maybe because when the s*** hit the fan I was the one to fix their problems. Maybe it was because I refused to play those games myself. Point is that my supposed alpha status did not require me to engage in "1-upmanship" behavior. I think it's because I believed in my own ideas more than I believed theirs.

Incidentally: Competition among women is at least as fierce as among men. They're a tad more subtle about it but you should have noticed that too!

I get where you're coming from Monica, I think that males today are in a sorry shape. We're not gender conscious like most women are... We don't know who we are and most men don't actually reach maturity. We don't know our own power and we are constantly pushed in the position where we feel we have to prove ourselves. From this comes a bad behavior that only reinforces the problem. Men don't mature. You girls are a brilliant example of what change is possible if as a gender you believe and decide in a new vision of that gender. Even if the pioneers of that new vision were ridiculed by their society. "Women wearing pants? Ridiculous!!" But look at you! You've become brilliant! Similarly I believe men in society today are not what men truly are. We're not what we were in history. This is not a power struggle. We just need to be more ourselves. It's about self respect and self actualisation.

[Monica]

First of all, you mean Q'uo, right? This is a Q'uo session that we are discussing here, not the Ra material. You continue saying Ra in your later posts, when I think that you mean Q'uo, but we'll see. The Ra quote that you made in this thread though, goes definitely with this topic as well, in order to illuminate some things:

I meant Ra. The quote I posted. Quoting Ra is always on-topic.

Prerequisite for the sexual energy transfer is that the energy has reached the green center, or the heart. I believe that in the quote that plenum provided about female orgasm, Q'uo addresses that kind of energy transfer when they are talking about sacred sex.

So, I believe that saying that it is women's responsibility to "guide men from mere lust (lower chakras only) to the spiritual expression of sexuality (communion on the higher chakras also)", is not what Q'uo or Ra said.

As I explained to Ali, I was referring to mated couples, presupposing that there is already a green ray connection.

A man might truly love his partner but still have a disconnect between lower chakra sex and sacred sex. The woman can help him by doing what Ra said females do: offering emotional energy as part of the sex act.

There is nothing in that particular quote that says that women need some kind of prerequisite in order to create a safe atmosphere for women to have an orgasm.

I didn't say anything about the Ra quote saying that. Q'uo said that.

It is true that statistically, women report a greater significance to emotional connection affecting physical satisfaction. So Q'uo's words ring true.

However, Q'uo addresses this matter:

How can you, then, value the female orgasm? You value it by creating a safe atmosphere in which such a thing can take place. You value it by continuing an atmosphere of gentleness, honor, romance, if you will: those small things that, to the feminine temperament, indicate a genuine and deep interest and not simply the red-ray sexual energy of lust.

That sounds like good advice for the male. And, interpreting Ra's words, good advice for the female might be to allow a safe space for the man to acknowledge and express his emotions, something that isn't easy for many men.

I would call both of these sacred responsibilities. So there is no inequality here.

You see here that Q'uo are talking about the whole atmosphere and not only about the initial stages.

Absolutely. We're talking about 2 different things here. I was attempting to validate Q'uo's and Ra's words, not dispute them.

Mind also their choice of word "value" when speaking of a female orgasm. However, Ra said that this orgasm is not necessary for the sexual energy transfer to occur:

That's true. But this thread is about the female orgasm not just sexual energy exchange, though sexual energy exchange is a big part of the discussion. Energy exchange can happen anyway, but it seems reasonable to assume that if either partner isn't considerate of the other person's pleasure, that would block the energy exchange.

It seems to me that what the quote was referring to was when the orgasms aren't simultaneous. Energy is still being exchanged. This is reassuring because one person pleasuring the other can still result in energy exchange, and it releases any potential fretting if it doesn't always happen for both partners simultaneously.

Q'ou talk *specifically* about the female orgasm in this session, and not about men's. Nevertheless, what they are saying is that:

Consequently, if two entities choose to become magical in their sexual practice, they have the ability to become great ambassadors, if you will, of light. For as they consciously call up this power that they have together and give it to each other, when they are completely saturated and filled up with this energy of orgasm, they then allow that orgasm to shine, both into the world of time/space and the world of space/time.

In the world of time/space, it is a kind of birth of created light. You have, in your own way, lightened that expression of the Creator that is occurring upon your Earth at this particular moment. You have energized and healed, with your magically offered energy, the natural function of your sexuality.

Women may guide men, but it is done *after* they have both reached the heart center, and become magical, but mind how much they use word "together".

I disagree that women cannot guide men until after having sacred sex. Both men and women guide each other on a daily basis, in many ways. They provide myriad catalyst to each other. It's a normal part of the relationship. I think it would be inaccurate to say women aren't guiding men or vice versa. Just by relating to each other, even before they start having sex, this is happening.

Ah, I see the reason for the apparent disagreement. If I'm understanding you correctly, you are focusing on the sex act itself. When I made that statement, I was referring to daily life as well, not just the sex act. As I said previously, the man may have reached the heart center, but still have difficulties and blockages pertaining to sex, in the lower chakras.

See this thread for more on this.

Of course, sometimes the roles might be reversed.

Which is, interesting enough, a bit contradictory to what Ra says in this matter:

It will be noted that once green ray energy transfer has been achieved by two mind/body/spirits in mating, the further rays are available without both entities having the necessity to progress equally.

What's contradictory? I don't see any contradiction.

Did you mean Ra or Q'uo?

Both. At that point I was specifically referring to Ra, but the Q'uote you just posted also supports my premise.

Look at the advice Q'uo offered to men: to be more sensitive to the woman. I'd say that's allowing the woman to guide him in the expression of his emotions and the development of caring/consideration as part of the sex act, instead of viewing sex from the perspective of the lower chakras only, which has historically been quite a challenge for men in particular. (As evidenced by men raping and pillaging, etc.)

I think that confusion between two of you started with the post, where you stated that women are tasked to guide men from mere lust, or lower centers, to the higher ones, to which Ali replied in the first place. Then you said the above and this is where confusion started.

Has the confusion been cleared?

Which specific Ra quote's does the above correlates to?

The one I posted.

[Diana]

Normal Testosterone Levels

Male: 300 -1,200 ng/dL
Female: 30 - 95 ng/dL
Note: ng/dL = nanograms per deciliter

Normal value ranges may vary slightly among different laboratories. Talk to your doctor about the meaning of your specific test results.

The examples above show the common measurements for results for these tests. Some laboratories use different measurements or may test different specimens.

source: http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/...003707.htm

There is still a difference between male and female physiology. Some are taking this to mean that one is better than another. That is an incorrect assumption.

We have traditionally been playing certain roles throughout history. We have DNA encoded with our evolutionary journey.

To deny this is to ignore certain information that will assist in transcending it.

For example,

Men: You can forgive yourselves for physical cues hard-wired into your brains and DNA. Forgive, and then continue co-creating the enlightened male you are.

Women: You can forgive the males for the same. And you can forgive yourselves for allowing to be disempowered for millennia, and now continue to co-create the enlightened female you are.

We are now endeavoring to bring into the light a true balance of female/male, in ourselves, and in our societies. It is a working theory of mine that this is why there is so much homosexual, tansgender, metrosexual, and lesbian preference right now. Not only is the veil thinner regarding past lives, but we are attempting to achieve the balance, and it manifests in physical in these ways.

We do not need to argue the equality of females and males. Of course we are equal. But we are still different. As long as their is the duality of existence (yin/yang, wave/particle, female/male and so on), there will be differences.

---

Regarding the topic of this thread.

When one considers the orgasm, and that sexual encounters may create a new being, one gets a sense of the power of it.

It seems to me that the orgasm is the full physical expression of the chakra and its potential. No other chakras do this this easily in 3D.

I had a spontaneous opening of the heart chakra one time when I was with a person I cared for. I felt something shoot out from the heart and spin around me like a disc about 6 to 10 feet in diameter. It lasted about a minute, and was very blissful, and made me feel unconditional love for the person.

Perhaps the controlling geneticists who may have played with our species allowed us only certain chakras to be opened easily, for purposes of control. And of course, pleasure in orgasm would drive the species to survive, while also keeping us centered in survival.

Imagine what it would be like in a union of male/female energy (which could be any two individuals) where all the chakras open simultaneously in this way. I get the feeling they could travel to another planet or something, it would be so powerful.

[Monica]

To say it lightly: I'm allergic to everything that suggests that either is the superior sex. It's rubbish... We're equals.

So am I. So please let go of any idea that I somehow was implying that one gender was superior to the other or that one should be subservient to the other. That is a gross misunderstanding and not what I was saying at all.

Sorry for any confusion! To be clear: I think both men and women have 'sacred responsibilities' so there is no double standard. But we were specifically talking about the female, so I mentioned that. It didn't enter my mind to reiterate that of course neither sex is superior to the other, because I assumed we were beyond such archaic notions.

And a lot of the "Men are this and women are that" arguments are the result of societal beliefs, not of fact.. Meaning that they keep us in the cycles of sexual inequality. Belief shapes behavior.

I'm curious, then, if you have disagreement with Ra and Q'uo on this topic? Because both do assign characteristics of the sexes.

In history at the time when male psychology was formed. There were not as many women available to procreate with as you might think. In fact the size of the nomadic tribes was small, large families not much more. And there was relative equality between men and women. Meaning that you can't force a woman to have sex with you, if you did you would be cast out of the tribe... Or worse... So the only way for a man to procreate would be to successfully seduce a woman and have her fall in love with you.. Ergo, the emotional bond is vitally important to a male's success to procreate... An additional issue is that if a man struck out with 1 woman. Then all other viable women would likely be her friends. So striking out with one means failing to reproduce, unless you can find another tribe to join with which is a dangerous move at best.

What you just described is a snapshot into time of some particular tribes/cultures but not necessarily representative of all tribes/cultures throughout history.

Asian cultures obviously valued females' sexuality. Taoist and Tantric texts explain in luscious detail the benefits to the man of worshiping at the altar of the Goddess. Women clearly were treated with respect, reverence even, and reveled in their sexuality.

The same is true of Pagan societies. Many were 'Goddess worshipers' and the female was the embodiment of the Goddess.

The deviation seems to be with the patriarchal, Judeo-Christian cultures. No surprise, given what we know about the STS influence of the Biblical texts. Sex became dirty, men became dominant over women, and women were taught that if they enjoyed sex, they were 'sinning.' The blame for all of humanity's travails was put on Eve, the mythical original female.

This is the heritage of American and European society and we are still reaping the consequences of this gross distortion.

Until the 60s hippie revolution, many women were sexually unsatisified. Even today, I personally know Christian women who tolerate abuse from their husbands because they've been taught to 'submit' to them. Not only are they being abused, but being pleasured just isn't even on the table.

Even in the Pagan communities, of course, 'barbarians' raped and pillaged. Women were viewed as the spoils of war. I'm not sure if any culture was totally free of the distortion of inequality of the sexes. But that just goes with the territory, being that this planet is essentially a school for juvenile delinquents.

I'm not a historian, but just those few examples would indicate that we really can't pick any one culture and say it's representative of all men and women throughout history.

In males today you see that most men would rather wait forever than approach the girl they're really head over heels in love with.. And that is the true psychology of the male.

Now who's generalizing?

What you describe is a valid aspect of the male. I wouldn't say it's the "true" psychology any more than any of the other traits I just described, that history shows were also quite real. There are many valid aspects.

Not the lust oriented animal that you like the rest of society depicts.

I would offer "in addition to the lust oriented animal" rather than "not the lust oriented animal" because both are true.

Yes those exist. But it would be the same as saying that women are subservient creatures who like, or need, a strong man to tell them what to do.

We seem to be going down a rabbit hole I didn't intend to go down.

You're saying the urge is still there, I am saying the urge is equal in men and women.

OK. We can agree to disagree on that point.

It is very likely that women in your numbers cheat less because they were more dependent on their husband. With full equality, women and men are likely to cheat on an equal basis. Check your sources they'll say the same thing.

In modern society, that may be true. Historically, however, in many patriarchal cultures it was acceptable for men to have mistresses, but if any woman dared to do such a thing, she was branded a 'harlot' and maybe even stoned to death. The double standard abounded, and has been passed on in the Judeo-Christian cultures.

You're arguing that men on the whole are only after sex. That they don't care about the women they're having sex with. And that sex is less of an emotional experience for men... This is insulting and sexist.

If that's what you think I'm arguing, Ali, then you have grossly misunderstood me.

It is understandable because of societies apparent belief in these myths... But never the less sexist in the same way that women can't think properly and should be subservient to their men.

Ali, if you would like to continue on this path, that's fine. But I won't be participating because the entire 'argument' is based on a complete misunderstanding of my points.

What you're doing is

No, Ali, please calm down. That's not what I'm doing at all. This has obviously pushed a button for you, but I didn't push that button.

Again I totally get where you're coming from. I believed this crap myself up to little over a year ago... I believed women were good and men were bad. I believed that there was something inherently wrong with masculinity.

No, Ali, you don't get where I'm coming from at all if you think I think that.

I get where you're coming from Monica,

No, you have misinterpreted my words and tried to make them fit into the stereotype of what bothers you. Please release me from this, Ali. This isn't my battle. You're simply wrong in your interpretation of my words.

Peace

[Ali Quadir]

So sorry for causing friction Monica. First of all I know you to be a very reasonable woman. I don't believe you look down on men. I don't think you have any ill will in the matter at all.. And it is certainly not you I hold accountable for any of this.

On a side note when we speak of history I speak of the past 100 thousand years you're speaking about the last 7 thousand years.. The past 7 millennia had less influence on the psychology of man. Whats important is how things where much further back.

But I'm fairly certain that there is at least a subconscious belief in the ideas I'm raging against. You are expressing them...

I don't think so. It's not sexist to face the statistics. It is what it is. Statistically, men cheat more. They have more 1-night stands. They take longer to commit. When they do cheat, it's with women who are more attractive than their wives, so physical appearance is more of a factor; whereas with women (statistically) the emotional connection is more often a factor.

You're quite clearly in unquestioning agreement with the statistics, which show behavior, not intrinsic values. And which also show a different picture when we make women equals in those relationships.

women have a sacred responsibility to help guide men from mere lust (lower chakras only) to the spiritual expression of sexuality (communion on the higher chakras also).

You're in agreement with the idea that women somehow have to educate men in how to use their higher chakras.

Men aren't procreating as much as they did before readily available contraception, but the biological urge is still there, which is considered by many 'experts' to be the explanation for higher rates of infidelity among men than among women:

And you're in agreement with the idea that men have different intrinsic motivations for sex. That men want to procreate as often as possible. While this is not the case for women...

You speak from the same patriarchal values that we both dislike but that were imposed upon our society. Before they were imposed there was a far greater amount of equality. Women were not the spoils of war for the vast majority of human evolution. Women were valued tribesmen who held quite a lot of power.

*I* held the same beliefs and values. So I don't hold any blame. I merely hope to show that these beliefs are so common that we hardly see them any more.

Men: You can forgive yourselves for physical cues hard-wired into your brains and DNA. Forgive, and then continue co-creating the enlightened male you are.

Women: You can forgive the males for the same. And you can forgive yourselves for allowing to be disempowered for millennia, and now continue to co-create the enlightened female you are.

This for example.., Read it a few times and read how immensely unfair it is. It's not just the females who have been suppressed... Men are STILL not themselves... It's not the men that did the suppressing. It was ideas that did that. And men were also hurt by it..

People often don't even recognize this fact...

[Diana]

Men: You can forgive yourselves for physical cues hard-wired into your brains and DNA. Forgive, and then continue co-creating the enlightened male you are.

Women: You can forgive the males for the same. And you can forgive yourselves for allowing to be disempowered for millennia, and now continue to co-create the enlightened female you are.

This for example.., Read it a few times and read how immensely unfair it is. It's not just the females who have been suppressed... Men are STILL not themselves... It's not the men that did the suppressing. It was ideas that did that. And men were also hurt by it..

People often don't even recognize this fact...

I see what you are pointing out. I am female, so as a male, could you rephrase my supposition from a more balanced perspective? (By the way, I did say that females allowed the suppression, which is half of the equation, and releases "blame.")

Let's not ignore the fact, however, that we have been male-dominated societies (for the most part) for a very long time. This is not an accusation. And just because you are male now, and I am female, does not mean that we haven't participated on both sides.

[Monica]

So sorry for causing friction Monica. First of all I know you to be a very reasonable woman. I don't believe you look down on men. I don't think you have any ill will in the matter at all.. And it is certainly not you I hold accountable for any of this.

Thank you!

On a side note when we speak of history I speak of the past 100 thousand years you're speaking about the last 7 thousand years.. The past 7 millennia had less influence on the psychology of man.

Ah, that explains some of the discrepancies. This planet has a long history, with many different planetary cultures. There is a wide variety of experiences throughout history.

Whats important is how things where much further back.

Are you suggesting that the more recent history is less important?

If so, I disagree. I think it's all important, but if anything, the more recent history is a better reflection of where we're at now. We have to take into consideration that humans have been evolving (presumably).

But I'm fairly certain that there is at least a subconscious belief in the ideas I'm raging against.

Well, you're wrong. (I can say "you're wrong" when you're referring to something about me personally.)

You are expressing them...

No, I'm not. I'm not expressing any such thing. You've misunderstood me.

You're quite clearly in unquestioning agreement with the statistics, which show behavior, not intrinsic values. And which also show a different picture when we make women equals in those relationships.

Ali, I'm laughing at the absurdity of this. I'm never in "unquestioning agreement" with any statistics. There is an old saying, "figures don't lie but liars can figure." Of course statistics can be skewed, misrepresented, etc. All of that must be taken into consideration.

But neither should they be disregarded.

So I offer statistics as informational only. Yes, I do think those particular statistics backed up my point at the time, which is why I posted them. But I don't need statistics to know that, in my own lifetime, until recent years, it was much more common for men to cheat on their wives than for women to cheat on their husbands.

The trend is going in the direction of balancing out. And I agree that the statistics will be different when viewing a segment of the sample, such as women in positions of power vs. women in subservient roles. But this, too, backs up my point about women taking on traditionally 'male' characteristics (such as wearing a 'suit' and cutting their hair short) in order to be taken seriously in the corporate world.

I could use those very same statistics to further back up my point that women might be actually suppressing their inherent feminine characteristics, in their efforts to be more 'man-like' and this, in my opinion, is a disservice to who they are as women. It's not liberation; it's the opposite - it's trying to emulate men instead of finding their own power as women.

In contrast to what you mistakenly thought about my views, I'm actually quite a strong feminist, Ali. In my view, it's not liberation at all for women to enter the man's world and try to be like men. No, true liberation of the female would be honoring feminine power, instead of copying male power.

I contend that both men and women have their respective power, but the qualities of said powers are very different.

You're in agreement with the idea that women somehow have to educate men in how to use their higher chakras.

No. That's not what I said.

Both sexes affect the other. Both can offer healing, catalyst, and opportunities for activation to the other. But the ways in which they do that may be different.

And you're in agreement with the idea that men have different intrinsic motivations for sex. That men want to procreate as often as possible. While this is not the case for women...

No. Quite the opposite: It's usually women whose biological clocks start ticking before men's...women who want babies, and they drag their husbands along kicking and screaming.

Sorry. That was a stereotype. Couldn't resist.

No, men don't want to "procreate as much as possible." But their biological drive, powered by higher testosterone levels, must be taken into consideration.

You speak from the same patriarchal values that we both dislike but that were imposed upon our society.

Surely you're not actually saying what you seem to be saying? Please tell me you're not saying I have patriarchal values...?

Before they were imposed there was a far greater amount of equality. Women were not the spoils of war for the vast majority of human evolution. Women were valued tribesmen who held quite a lot of power.

Yes, this is true. But women being the spoils of war is also true. Both occurred throughout history.

*I* held the same beliefs and values. So I don't hold any blame. I merely hope to show that these beliefs are so common that we hardly see them any more.

Respectfully, Ali, you're beginning to sound condescending. I've already told you that you have misunderstood me. To continue to insist that I think a certain way, when I already told you I don't and tried to better explain my position, is both laughable and insulting.

[Ankh]

As I explained to Ali, I was referring to mated couples, presupposing that there is already a green ray connection.

A man might truly love his partner but still have a disconnect between lower chakra sex and sacred sex. The woman can help him by doing what Ra said females do: offering emotional energy as part of the sex act.

What I was referring to which you answer above, is your statement where you say that your interpretation of Ra is that it is women's responsibility to guide men from mere lust, or lower centers, to the spiritual expression of sexuality. Of course it is your interpretation which is very personal. However, I do not see anywhere myself that either Ra or Q'uo refers to this being a woman's responsibility. My own interpretation of that particular Ra quote is:

1. Females store mental or mental/emotional energy.

2. Males store physical energy.

3. When both have reached the green ray center, the exchange of these energies may occur.

My interpretation of Q'uo is that women *tend* to have more connection with the unseen world, and may guide men to the inspiration of the spirit, *after* they have *both* reached the green ray transfer.

It is true that statistically, women report a greater significance to emotional connection affecting physical satisfaction. So Q'uo's words ring true.

I do not argue with you there, Monica, although have some questions about what is "culture" and what is "nature". But would like to add that both sexes, i.e. both men and women, would perhaps feel better with an emotional connection in the physical, intimate activity. That it is a responsibility of both, to guide each other into the sacred moments in intimate expressions.

How can you, then, value the female orgasm? You value it by creating a safe atmosphere in which such a thing can take place. You value it by continuing an atmosphere of gentleness, honor, romance, if you will: those small things that, to the feminine temperament, indicate a genuine and deep interest and not simply the red-ray sexual energy of lust.

That sounds like good advice for the male. And, interpreting Ra's words, good advice for the female might be to allow a safe space for the man to acknowledge and express his emotions, something that isn't easy for many men.

I would call both of these sacred responsibilities. So there is no inequality here.

I totally agree with your thoughts here. But what *Ra* meant in that particular quote is that female offers "inspiration, healing, and blessing to the male" through the sexual energy transfer.

That's true. But this thread is about the female orgasm not just sexual energy exchange, though sexual energy exchange is a big part of the discussion. Energy exchange can happen anyway, but it seems reasonable to assume that if either partner isn't considerate of the other person's pleasure, that would block the energy exchange.

The orgasm, as I understand it personally, is something that can happen both with or without energy transfer, i.e. when the green center is opened and when it's not. But as I interpret the Q'uo quote, it is when the green ray is involved, that the female orgasm becomes useful:

This is green-ray affection and it is at this point that the female orgasm becomes useful. There are more miles to go indeed in exploring sacred sexuality, but this is where it begins.

I disagree that women cannot guide men until after having sacred sex. Both men and women guide each other on a daily basis, in many ways. They provide myriad catalyst to each other. It's a normal part of the relationship. I think it would be inaccurate to say women aren't guiding men or vice versa. Just by relating to each other, even before they start having sex, this is happening.

I totally agree with you in the above statement. What I disagree with you, as I've already stated, is the statement where you said that it is women's responsibility to guide men from mere lust in lower centers, to spiritual expression of it. I totally agree though, that it is a responsibility/honor of both sexes.

Ah, I see the reason for the apparent disagreement. If I'm understanding you correctly, you are focusing on the sex act itself. When I made that statement, I was referring to daily life as well, not just the sex act. As I said previously, the man may have reached the heart center, but still have difficulties and blockages pertaining to sex, in the lower chakras.

In that quote, as I see it, you do not talk about daily life, but the sexual activity yourself, by saying "spiritual expression of sexuality". Did you mean the daily activities as well, but did not say it, or what do you mean? In that case, I am not seeing Ra mentioning it either, or do they?

I think that both men and women can still have some blockages in lower centers after have reached the heart center. Not only men.

Which is, interesting enough, a bit contradictory to what Ra says in this matter:

It will be noted that once green ray energy transfer has been achieved by two mind/body/spirits in mating, the further rays are available without both entities having the necessity to progress equally.

What's contradictory? I don't see any contradiction.

Q'uo stated that the higher centers are reached together as a couple, while Ra says the above, i.e. that after the heart center is reached, the journey does not have to be done together anymore so to speak. But I think that I got it now. What Q'uo specifically mean, in my understanding, is that *if/when* this journey is expressed in mutual orgasm, together, it lights up all that they state it lights up, while Ra talking about sexual energy transfers as a way for an individual of opening the higher centers, above the heart.

Look at the advice Q'uo offered to men: to be more sensitive to the woman. I'd say that's allowing the woman to guide him in the expression of his emotions and the development of caring/consideration as part of the sex act, instead of viewing sex from the perspective of the lower chakras only, which has historically been quite a challenge for men in particular. (As evidenced by men raping and pillaging, etc.)

As I said before, this session is about female orgasm specifically, so Q'uo talking about the female orgasms specifically. *Nevertheless*, look what they are saying:

When working with sexual energy, it is very important to realize that you are dealing with enormously powerful forces, and therefore, as you become more intimate with your partner, you need to become ever more careful, ever more affectionate, and ever more thoughtful about how you say things as well as what you say. For you have become a powerful person to your mate and you wish to treat this mate with all the honor and respect that you would give to the Creator Himself or Herself.

They advice *both* sexes to be gentle and careful with each other.

Power expressions then between sexes may vary. Men may express their power in the ways that you've mentioned above. Women's power expressions may be different, like manipulation, words that hurt in an indirect way, talking bad about him behind his back, "headaches" etc. When there are blockages in lower centers, negative power expressions can be possible. My point is that negative power expressions are not something that should be assigned to men only. Women do that too.

Has the confusion been cleared?

This is something that you need to ask Ali.

Pssst! Ali, is confusion less now?