In regards to eating meat

[Monica]

When you break down my words, you redefine them every time to represent some form of your version of things.

You have misinterpreted. I usually ask you questions, seeking clarification. But most of the time, you don't answer, so how can I "listen" when you haven't replied?

For instance, I wrote a post with a very literal olive branch to support abridgetoofar's endeavors. It was the one post you decided to invoke forum law on me. This is a great indicator that you aren't listening.

No, 'forum law' wasn't based on a single post, but specifically making accusations towards individuals, instead of just sharing one's own views. Anyway, it's not as if I was imposing some sort of iron fist. I simply posted a reminder to be respectful towards others, which I do from time to time.

And the fact that you find my pointing that out to be antagonist underlines my belief that you don't want to listen to me.

Monkey, someone who answers your posts with thoughtfulness, seeking clarity, is obviously listening to you. Listening doesn't necessarily mean agreeing. I find your accusation ironic, being that most of my words to you don't get responses. Who's not listening to whom? Again, I will offer to cease responding to your posts, if you prefer. But I am just as entitled to express my views as any other member.

If you have some issues about me you'd like to discuss, please send a pm. Let's keep this thread on topic.

[3DMonkey]

[/quote]

When you break down my words, you redefine them every time to represent some form of your version of things.

You have misinterpreted. I usually ask you questions, seeking clarification. But most of the time, you don't answer, so what am I to think?

You ask leading questions that, if I answer, lead me to a topic away from my original point.

For instance, I wrote a post with a very literal olive branch to support abridgetoofar's endeavors. It was the one post you decided to invoke forum law on me. This is a great indicator that you aren't listening.

No, 'forum law' wasn't based on a single post, but specifically making accusations towards individuals, instead of just sharing one's own views.

You chose an odd post to make that comment.

All I do is share views.

OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!! Accusations??????????????????
You said "3DMonkey advocates killing children" "3DMonkey doesn't love his family"

OMG!!!!!!!!!!

And the fact that you find my pointing that out to be antagonist underlines my belief that you don't want to listen to me.

Monkey, someone who answers your posts with thoughtfulness, seeking clarity, is obviously listening to you. Listening doesn't necessarily mean agreeing.

If you have some issues about me you'd like to discuss, please send a pm. Let's keep this thread on topic.

Yes, let's

[Monica]

You ask leading questions that, if I answer, lead me to a topic away from my original point.

To deeper thought? Enhanced understanding? Isn't that what discussions are for?

At any rate, it cannot be said that I wasn't "listening" to you. You were simply choosing to have a 1-sided conversation, while I was pursuing a 2-sided (actually mutli-faceted) conversation. Now that I know that's what you want, no problem! From this point on, I won't reply to your posts. It's really not worth causing any discord over.

All I do is share views.

That's all any of us are doing.

OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!! Accusations??????????????????
You said "3DMonkey advocates killing children" "3DMonkey doesn't love his family"

OMG!!!!!!!!!!

I remember that conversation, Monkey. You know I never said those things. What I did do was ask you for clarification, after you said that a mother should just 'accept' the murderer trying to kill her children, and shouldn't try to stop him, and that if she did try to stop him, she wasn't acting out of love, but of STS. I didn't understand your views then, and I still don't. But I never accused you of advocating the killing of children, or of not loving your children. You know that.

You're not being fair, Monkey. If you think about it, I think you will realize that. You are grossly twisting and misrepresenting what was said in past conversations. Apparently you have some resentment towards me that you've never cleared. You know I never said those things, but was seeking clarity on things you yourself said.

Yes, let's

Let's return this thread to its topic. And I will remind you again of guideline #1.

[3DMonkey]

Please stop the antagonism, Monica.
And, please, read the forum guidelines

[Monica]

Please stop the antagonism, Monica.
And, please, read the forum guidelines

I'm replying to this for documentation purposes only.

[βαθμιαίος]

Wow. Last time I logged in (yesterday evening), this thread was 58 pages. Now it's 65 -- I've got some catching up to do.

[3DMonkey]

Please stop the antagonism, Monica.
And, please, read the forum guidelines

I'm replying to this for documentation purposes only.

Ditto

[Tenet Nosce]

Sardines are in the humanely slaughtered category, since they had a good life before getting killed.

So how much more would you feel at ease living in a world where humans continued to eat sardines, and other similar sea creatures, but did not eat land-based creatures? Would you find this to be a satisfactory stepping-stone for you regarding dietary practices for the time being?

What about rodents? I ask because much of the world eats various rodents. In the Andes, they raise guinea pig and in the Amazon they eat various kinds of "jungle rat" for example.

Insects are also a great source of protein, upon with much of the world depends to some degree. Termites are another jungle food.

I care about plants in general more than bugs or microbes.
I care about bugs more than microbes or rocks.

Interestingly, the health of the body turns out to be inextricably connected to the kind of microbes growing within it!

(I have righted many a beetle stuck on its back, and have saved many a wasp from being killed by those afraid of wasps. And spiders who creep into my house get escorted out, alive. But I don't worry about how many bacteria cells I unwittingly escort to bacteria heaven each time I take a breath. Nor do I have any intentions of joining PETA ROCKS and start protesting at the local rock quarry.)

I transplanted a pair of rather large spiders while power washing the house last month. Generally, the cats reign supreme over the life and death of insects in the house. Except for ants, which they seem to ignore. I might be inclined to let an ant go free, except I would never trust it not to tell its little friends where the sugar is at in my kitchen.

One time I lived through a beetle outbreak and let me say there was no sparing the beetles, even if one wanted to. The streets were caked with beetle carcasses from vehicles driving over them, and they were literally crawling out of the ceilings in some places of business!

[3DMonkey]

I remember that conversation, Monkey. You know I never said those things.

Since you think it's ok to let a person kill a child, then am I "looking down on you" if I voice my opinion that it's not ok?

I can understand why someone who thinks allowing a murderer to kill a child, might feel that way.

Your views are very strange to me, Monkey.

[BrownEye]

Wow. Last time I logged in (yesterday evening), this thread was 58 pages. Now it's 65 -- I've got some catching up to do.

Monkey and Monica have been catalyzing each other.

M&Ms mmmmm....

[3DMonkey]

I remember that conversation, Monkey. You know I never said those things.

Since you think it's ok to let a person kill a child, then am I "looking down on you" if I voice my opinion that it's not ok?

I can understand why someone who thinks allowing a murderer to kill a child, might feel that way.

Your views are very strange to me, Monkey.

For clarification, this is not me being angry that Monica said these things.

This is me demonstrating that I have not said anything more worthy of "invoking rules" than Monica has.

[BrownEye]

You know, I think as an experiment before this goes farther, the two of you should do a simple LBRP over your PCs, keeping in mind the thought form, or "egregore" I mentioned earlier. I am totally seeing the signs, and would love to hear results in emotional attachments to this thread/topic.

[Tenet Nosce]

Egregore Conversion Utility

[BrownEye]

Oh man lol, just browsing other web forums, there are meltdowns going on, and some are blaming it on mercury retrograde. So, maybe it isn't what I thought it was. But something is definitely going on with these connections between people.

I just watched a woman considered very "spiritual" and even headed meltdown over someones comment on foreskin. In the matter of a day she is demanding that they ban her since they wont erase her account. She went from even keeled to cussing in a day.

[yossarian]

Is it vegan to eat foreskins? What if it's your own foreskin?

What about toenail clipping?

I suppose these count as cannibalism, but is cannibalism incompatible with veganism?

What if the person consents to being eaten?

What if they have no pain receptors or brain activity due to brain damage or genetic defect? Brings new meaning to the term "vegetable".

[Diana]

Oh man lol, just browsing other web forums, there are meltdowns going on, and some are blaming it on mercury retrograde. So, maybe it isn't what I thought it was. But something is definitely going on with these connections between people.

I just watched a woman considered very "spiritual" and even headed meltdown over someones comment on foreskin. In the matter of a day she is demanding that they ban her since they wont erase her account. She went from even keeled to cussing in a day.

When people are triggered, that's a good thing to me. It means they get to see what needs to be dealt with. The energies right now must be helping in this respect .

So, this thread is very important, since it is really shaking things up!

---

Is it vegan to eat foreskins? What if it's your own foreskin?

What about toenail clipping?

You may eat your own foreskin and toenail clippings, only if they agreed to it . Bon appetite.

[BrownEye]

And yossarian, as you will be self experiencing self, let us know what that's like. LoL.

[3DMonkey]

You know, I think as an experiment before this goes farther, the two of you should do a simple LBRP over your PCs, keeping in mind the thought form, or "egregore" I mentioned earlier. I am totally seeing the signs, and would love to hear results in emotional attachments to this thread/topic.

Ya know, I really like that you initially brought that to attention. Dunno what LBRP is. I've been waiting for opportunity to say that word,in my memory, sounds like ego-ogre.

---

OMG, yossarian. *vomit*. Put the afterbirth on that menu. *bleh*

[Monica]

I remember that conversation, Monkey. You know I never said those things.

Since you think it's ok to let a person kill a child, then am I "looking down on you" if I voice my opinion that it's not ok?

I can understand why someone who thinks allowing a murderer to kill a child, might feel that way.

Your views are very strange to me, Monkey.

For clarification, this is not me being angry that Monica said these things.

This is me demonstrating that I have not said anything more worthy of "invoking rules" than Monica has.

Monkey, by digging up old quotes and quoting them out of context. You know full well that I was incredulous at the time, after you explicitly said you were in favor of letting the murderer kill the child. There was no misunderstanding there. You have repeatedly stated this. All I did was echo it back to you, trying to get clarification.

You never denied believing that killers should be allowed to kill children, and in fact repeated it again and again. And now you throw it back at me, for repeating what you said yourself?

You are misrepresenting me, by quoting just snippets of the conversation. You are leaving out your part, where you were the one saying "those things" you now accuse me of, as though so awful.

This has to stop here. This thread has degenerated into petty bickering. I have asked you to pm me if you have a grievance, rather than continuing to post inflammatory and accusatory statements directed at me or anyone else.

[3DMonkey]

Do as I say...

[Monica]

Do as I say...

This is mocking.

[3DMonkey]

[Monica]

So how much more would you feel at ease living in a world where humans continued to eat sardines, and other similar sea creatures, but did not eat land-based creatures? Would you find this to be a satisfactory stepping-stone for you regarding dietary practices for the time being?

Oh gosh, I would consider that a huge improvement! An emphatic yes!!

What about rodents? I ask because much of the world eats various rodents. In the Andes, they raise guinea pig and in the Amazon they eat various kinds of "jungle rat" for example.

Insects are also a great source of protein, upon with much of the world depends to some degree. Termites are another jungle food.

Those going to the 3D planet will probably continue to eat animals. My ideas are really more applicable for those transitioning to 4D. I have expressed my view that I don't like the design of this planet. I don't like wild animals killing one another either.

Interestingly, the health of the body turns out to be inextricably connected to the kind of microbes growing within it!

Yes, exactly! We have more microbes in our bodies than we do actual human cells! So obviously our bodily terrain is their natural habitat. Thus it's ridiculous to think that they are 'dying' when we breathe them in.

I transplanted a pair of rather large spiders while power washing the house last month. Generally, the cats reign supreme over the life and death of insects in the house.

I confess to not protesting when my cats catch the occasional cockroach. :-/

Except for ants, which they seem to ignore. I might be inclined to let an ant go free, except I would never trust it not to tell its little friends where the sugar is at in my kitchen.

I've had really good success asking wasps to move their nests. And come to think of it, we haven't had much of an ant problem in recent years. Maybe I did reach them after all...

One time I lived through a beetle outbreak and let me say there was no sparing the beetles, even if one wanted to. The streets were caked with beetle carcasses from vehicles driving over them, and they were literally crawling out of the ceilings in some places of business!

Oh yeah, I've lived thru those too! But it was crickets.

[BrownEye]

http://www.wisdomsdoor.com/wb/hwb-lbrp.shtml

Ya know, I really like that you initially brought that to attention. Dunno what LBRP is. I've been waiting for opportunity to say that word,in my memory, sounds like ego-ogre

That is a somewhat accurate analogy. Although all of us as a group created it. It can take energies and focus them. Try this out, just imagine a laser shooting out of your finger with the movement. No need to sound anything out.

[Diana]

Monkey:

If you mean by showing the clip of that wanker Mel Gibson getting his guts ripped out that you want freedom, you have it, to do whatever, including eating meat, not caring about animals, and getting the last word in .

We all want freedom. Including the animals caged in zoos, and factory farms. Including all the rain forest plants, trees, animals and indigenous peoples losing their home because of businesses like MacDonald's.

[3DMonkey]

Monkey:

If you mean by showing the clip of that wanker Mel Gibson getting his guts ripped out that you want freedom, you have it, to do whatever, including eating meat, not caring about animals, and getting the last word in .

We all want freedom. Including the animals caged in zoos, and factory farms. Including all the rain forest plants, trees, animals and indigenous peoples losing their home because of businesses like MacDonald's.

If we are "lighter". If we are "evolved". Then we will join hands.

Have I done something? What is it? Who am I to you? What do I represent?

[Diana]

Monkey:

If you mean by showing the clip of that wanker Mel Gibson getting his guts ripped out that you want freedom, you have it, to do whatever, including eating meat, not caring about animals, and getting the last word in .

We all want freedom. Including the animals caged in zoos, and factory farms. Including all the rain forest plants, trees, animals and indigenous peoples losing their home because of businesses like MacDonald's.

If we are "lighter". If we are "evolved". Then we will join hands.

Have I done something? What is it? Who am I to you? What do I represent?

Not sure what you mean.

[3DMonkey]

It was to describe how I feel. That's all. Not so much of a physical sense. Just freedom to be.

I asked the questions to connect. Surly, you have some viable answers, no?

[Monica]

You know, I think as an experiment before this goes farther, the two of you should do a simple LBRP over your PCs, keeping in mind the thought form, or "egregore" I mentioned earlier. I am totally seeing the signs, and would love to hear results in emotional attachments to this thread/topic.

Thanks for the suggestion, Pickle. I have no emotional attachment to what just happened and would like to get back to the topic of the thread.

---

My mommy loves me, and she feeds me McDonald's. I love my kids and I feed them McDonald's. McDonald's is an American expression of "love".

Why... if we had to admit that McDonald's is poison, then we would have to admit that our own mommy poisoned us. And that we have been poisoning our children. **GASP** No. No. That couldn't be so.

Just like excessive Halloween and Easter candy. Parents who don't let their kids binge out on candy are depriving them, right?

Beyond this, the First Distortion of "You Create Your Own Reality" says that if you believe McDonald's is healthy "food" for you and your loved ones, then by the magic of intention, that "food" actually ceases being poison, and actually becomes good for you!

Except...it doesn't work that way does it? Most people who eat that stuff do suffer the consequences. Is it because they are asleep and not consciously creating, so are just subject to the physical matter's normal properties? Maybe if they consciously tried to transmute it, it might work and actually become healthy. It would be highly inefficient though. Much easier to start with something healthy to begin with. It's hard enough transmuting all the toxic chemicals we're bombarded with on a daily basis.

Hmm. So are you saying that a more pressing issue might be at play?

Yes. I think most people really do have good intentions, but they just can't think clearly or independently, because they're so drugged. Most of the population is drugged. Even the children.

Nothing wrong with it. And this is another "sticky" issue (hardy-har-har)... but if the people of the world are indeed being sifted onto different timelines... at some point there must be a shift in focus away from reaching out toward these others who are destined for a different path. We have to let them go, eventually.

Right. I see it happening already.

---

IMO, the best way to proceed is to raise animals your way, and be happy that it is enough. Cuz if you ain't happy, you ain't helping the world's happiness meter.

I wonder how much all those millions of animals being tortured on a daily basis, is affecting the world's happiness meter.

---

Previously, I suggested reframing the debate in terms of land-based vs. sea-based diets, but the comment appears to have been lost in the fray.

Getting caught up...I think that's a stupendous idea! Any ideas on how to pull it off? (Maybe the next generation can go from sea-based to plant-based...?)

There is an over-reaching principle at play here and that is self-righteousness. On one level there appears to be a noble cause, yet on another level a stubborn unwillingness to admit when the tactics involved in promoting said cause are ineffective.

Many anti-meat-eating folk get just as defensive and resentful when others suggest that they might benefit from a change in their strategy. So... not only do we know what is "right" for everybody, but we also know what is the "right" way to go about bringing that change.

Any ideas for a more effective strategy? What would be the basis for promoting a sea-based diet, and how would we go about doing that?

I wonder what kind of programming it is which informs us that when we push for something, and it is not well-received, that the appropriate response is to push harder? And then when pushing harder fails, the appropriate response is to force others to obey our self-righteous demands through the rule of law.

NOTE: Not saying -you- personally do this, just speaking in general terms.

That just all seems like "old world" strategery to me...

I dunno. Maybe because of desperation?

[@ndy]

I'm wondering why some people feel guilt about eating meat, and others don't?

I guess the people who don't either don't care, rationalise, forgive the feeling or maybe see all as perfect as it is.

I find it odd to have an order of importance/care... with humans being most important, then animals, then fish bugs plants and so on. I guess it seems hierarchical to me.


Perhaps I’m just an earthling – but I kind of find the way stuff works down here pretty amazing and awesome, the food chain connects us all.
In a world with no hunting there would be no cat’s or dogs, no owls, or eagles.