The Present Moment and Intuitive Perceptions of the Harvest - Part I

[native]

The following is based on my understanding of time, the function/experience of the octave as a whole, and the comments Ra has made about the present moment. I think there are underlying metaphysical concepts to discern when considering the harvest. Ra could easily explain the following in one breath, but instead, they imparted a philosophy that when viewed as a whole, the concept of harvest could be understood clearly and accepted by a person in their own time. By giving specific answers to specific questions, through free will, we interpret the answers differently as our understanding of the material as a whole, grows. Understanding can't be taught. They only answer what was asked of them and let us piece together the information, coming to our own conclusions. I believe that the harvest is occurring now, as Ra has stated in 14.14. I've gone to great lengths to detail the misconceptions of harvest in my other thread that is to be read in conjunction with this one. Here is the link.. http://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=3231

Ra also agrees that understanding the present moment will lead you to an understanding of the harvest....

70.22 Questioner: I am sorry to ask such stupid questions, but I am trying to determine something about space/time, time/space, and this very difficult area of the mechanism of evolution. I think it is central to the understanding of our evolution. However, I am not sure of this and I may be wasting my time. Could Ra comment on whether I am wasting my time in this particular investigation or whether it would be fruitful?

Ra: I am Ra. Since the concepts of space/time, or physics, and time/space, or metaphysics, are mechanical they are not central to the spiritual evolution of the mind/body/spirit complex. The study of love and light is far more productive in its motion towards unity in those entities pondering such concepts.

Ra is giving us advice to study the spiritual philosophy of what they present in the Law of One, so that you may better understand the present moment, the unity of creation. When you understand the present moment you will have a better grasp of 'time', which will lead to a better understanding of the mechanics of space/time and time/space. In other words, you will be able to understand how the harvest occurs over a period of 'time'..and that it is not instant involving end-date scenarios popularly reflected everywhere else.

Firstly, in 16.21 and 16.22, Ra establishes the concept of the octave as a circle of being that never ceases but exists in the present. In 16.22 it's said that in third density, when removed from space/time which is where we are now, it may be seen how our linear incarnations are viewed as a cycle of completion which exists as one present moment all together. Throughout the material, Ra repeatedly refers to our 'past' and 'future' as illusory. They also cite this reason as to how they are able to travel to any part of our past/present/future to alleviate distortions. Third density then is a microcosm of completion within the the octave, which also exists as a timeless moment as a cycle of completion. This is how the higher-self is able to offer its perspective in a collective fashion, because it has access to all of an entities present moments up to sixth density. Because everything exists simultaneously as a present moment, communication across 'time' simultaneously becomes possible. And again, in 10.12 Ra refers to third density as a time/space accumulation of present moments. It's clear, that third density exists as one moment. Below, I'll detail how the other densities also exist in the present.

Third density is for the purpose of making The Choice. This density is the interaction of polarity so that one may choose which path to embark upon. The unique experience of this octave was to provide a split so there is a stark interaction of polarity, and is why Ra says the choice is the axis upon which the creation turns.

76.16...The prelude to choice must encompass the laying of the foundation, the establishment of the illusion and the viability of that which can be made spiritually viable. The remainder of the densities is continuous refining of the choice. This also is greatly lengthened, as you would use the term. The choice is, as you put it, the work of a moment but is the axis upon which the creation turns.

They also say the experience of third density is not necessary, which means it's irrelevant because the split of positive/negative created by third density all ends up as one in 6d and on up. The creator chose to do this for a better understanding of itself, but it's not necessary. The octave experience is the working backwards towards a greater accumulation of present moments that at the octave level, is experienced as one moment or a timeless state. It is a state of timelessness, but all can be known Ra says. Densities 1-2 and 4-7 experience time differently. The other densities are different in that there is only the present. 57.33 clarifies the distinctions between space/time and time/space, and Ra explains how in the higher densities the differences are only for working in a polarized fashion. Ra says in sixth density they don't have a history as we understand this concept, and that their learning remains graven in the present. As I understand it, to the sixth density entity for instance, there is no ability to ever visit your 'historical' experience of sixth density because you are always progressing forward. Your experience in higher densities is solely evolutionary and a refinement back towards the creator.

Why is it that in the higher densities they exist in a more ingrained present state? It involves an understanding of the choice. When you make the choice and you are harvested, you are removed from the illusion of third density and embark on a path of learning and refinement of that choice. You no longer exist in a positive/negative illusion..you either exist in positive or negative. Again, this is why third density is the axis upon which the creation turns, because we choose whether or not we move along the positive path, or the negative path. This split of polarity is the function and experiment of this particular octave, therefore, it is the axis upon which the creation turns.

So third density is an illusion of polarity interaction. Our experience here allows us to move in multiple directions, creating 'past' events and 'future' probabilities as the dramas play out. In this illusion of third density, we create situations, occurrences, and events that have ramifications. These events move us into a new set of circumstances which must be worked out and understood. We cause ourselves karma and our polarization sways. Do you see how we create reality..we create 'past' and 'future' situations that can vary and create different results? When a person makes the choice, you polarize positively or negatively and you are harvested by leaving this illusion. The higher densities no longer exist in any kind of illusion. So they are existing in an acutely realized awareness of polarity and service. The higher densities aren't really moving along naively, rather an entity is refining their polarity and working back towards what it already is; the creator. In this way they have no 'past' that is affecting their 'future', because they exist in a more fully realized present awareness, and they are ever moving forward in the present.

65.12 - This vortex may be very small, but to turn one’s back upon it is to forget the infinite possibilities of the present moment.

In the above, Ra is clearly stating that we exist in the present. We have a 'past' and a 'future' because third density exists as a cycle of completion as the octave does. Third density seems to be a unique density because of both polarities existing here, the choice, and the infinite possibilities of reality creation. The higher densities can look into third density because they exist outside of the illusion of choice. In the higher densities you either exist in the positive or negative polarity, or at a point of mid-sixth density where polarity unifies. So this polarity interaction of third density is what creates 'past' and 'future' events involving possibility/probability outcomes and the realities that they create.

As I understand it, in the higher densities you have your incarnational experiences themselves for the purpose of learning, but there is no 'past' or 'future' because you exist outside of the realm of choice, and you are always moving forward in your present moment experience. So there is no reality creation in the higher densities as much as it is simply a path of learning and refinement. Again, third density is variable and unpredictable because of the freedom of choice, hence an infinite realm of 'past' and 'future' probabilities, but everything always hinges on the present as stated above in 65.12. Learning and interaction in the higher densities 'remains graven in the present', because it is constant refinement of the choice..there is no movement in another direction other than the potential of switching from negative to positive. You may lose polarity because of mistakes, but you are always moving forward in the present.

So in third density, when we make mistakes, incur karma, or simply do not learn lessons to be learned, our mistakes of the past may be alleviated in the next incarnation or in other possibilities/probabilities. This isn't so with densities four, five, and six because they exist solely in the present. Should errors be made in those densities (cause distortion), which seems to involve interaction with third density as teachers/learners, they must try to alleviate those distortions as best as possible by working with other possibilities/probabilities of third density itself. A higher density being can't go back to its 'past', because they are always moving forward. This is why Ra, having made mistakes with the Egyptians, returned to impart the Law of One once again to Don, Carla, and Jim. In 1.1 .."However, we then felt the great responsibility of staying in the capacity of removing the distortions and powers that had been given to the Law of One. We will continue in this until your, shall we say, cycle is appropriately ended. If not this one, then the next. We are not a part of time and, thus, are able to be with you in any of your times." By working with our other 'times' (possibilities/probabilities), they alleviate their own distortions. Because third density is a cycle of completion, we can alleviate our karma in a future incarnation before the cycle ends.

So to recap, all of third density is combined as one moment. If you've ever entered into a deep state of meditation, you understand the feeling of being present, and its difference in relation to 'normal' time. We are in essence, trapped inside this illusion where the passage of time/history occurs until we make The Choice. This is why in 17.2 it is stated that.. "We cannot offer shortcuts to enlightenment. Enlightenment is, of the moment, an opening to intelligent infinity. It can only be accomplished by the self, for the self. Another self cannot teach/learn enlightenment, but only teach/learn information, inspiration, or a sharing of love, of mystery, of the unknown that makes the other-self reach out and begin the seeking process that ends in a moment, but who can know when an entity will open the gate to the present?"

Making the choice is to once again break free from the cyclical illusion (many incarnations involving past/present/future), which begins and ends in a moment. In this way, you step through the gate to the present which is fourth density. This is why you make contact with intelligent infinity when you polarize having made the choice, because you have tapped the potential of positive or negative polarity that exists within the octave. So contact with intelligent infinity is also stated as the gate to the present, because if you don't make the choice you'll continue in another illusion of past/present/future experiences.

This is how I visualize space/time and time/space functioning in relation to the present moment: Visualize both hands on the face of a clock aligned at 12 o'clock. When you incarnate, the minute hand represents space/time by moving around one revolution, and ending at 12 o'clock. The hour hand, representative of time/space, has only moved to 1 o'clock. Do you see how time/space moves slower related to space/time? This is why we incarnate at the time of harvest, and we can easily do what we have to do without the harvest passing us by. It is argued that because the harvest is a 'mechanical' function related to the rhythms described below, it will be instant.

To say the harvest occurs instantly in space/time, meaning death in an instant when the harvest approaches in time/space, misses the point entirely if you understand the concept of the present moment. Because once you've made the choice within the incarnation, which is contact with intelligent infinity, you've been harvested in the metaphysical sense, you've made the choice and stepped through to the present metaphorically, and is why there have been examples given where entities were capable of harvesting themselves. 'The harvest is now' from this perspective makes more sense. The harvest mechanic approaches and is available in space/time for however long that may be.

The timing of the harvest cycles described in 9.4 is a rhythm. It seems to be an outward/inward pulse. If third density is but one moment metaphysically speaking (a moment in time/space), and the pulse is coming our way in time/space, reflected as crossing the galactic plane in space/time, those moments intersect and those that can be harvested, are. There are three opportunities for harvest as it pertains to the cycles and this pulsing rhythm, but third density is always ready and waiting as one moment. Confining the harvest to irrelevant conceptions of past/present/future time is to overlook the understanding of the present moment. The harvest is but a moment in time/space, yet we don't experience it that way in space/time or third density as a whole. This is how the harvest can be gradual because it was stated that the harvest occurs in time/space. There is no loss of 'time' in space/time, as if the harvest is passing us by as we live here incarnate. I've described how with the clock face example above. That moment of intersection is fixed within the octave, it will not slip away. The material clearly supports the view that as the harvest is occuring in time/space, we will continue to live out our lives as long as is viable. This makes sense because there is a lot of catalyst available for the choice to be made, especially as the veil thins. Upon death, which is the transition to time/space, the harvest occurs.

If you understand the concept of the octave and the present moment, we've already made the choice, we've already been harvested in all densities, and we've already turned back towards the creator. When Ra says in 16.22..

"In an overview such as an entity may have, removed from the space/time continuum, it may be seen that in the cycle of completion there exists only the present. We, ourselves, seek to learn this understanding."

...they are giving a metaphor for the movement back towards the Creator as they learn and understand the nature of the Self, just as we try to do, to exist more and more in the present. Because the closer you move towards the Creator, you move ever closer to a state of timelessness existing in the eternal present. In other words, the more you become that which you are, the more realization and awareness of beingness is attained. Thus, you experience more and more wholeness, more present awareness. The light that you are becomes less and less distorted, manifesting the pureness of being. Consciousness is presence. The more conscious you are, the more present you are.

To worry about whether or not the harvest will occur in the future, is to step outside of the present moment, and it misses the metaphysical realizations entirely. The harvest is not "coming", it is now. Live in the present. It is one of the main messages Ra seems to be imparting.

All of this is intuitive perception informing intelligence. The greater teachings can't be understood directly. My perspective of a year ago changed when I grasped these intuitive concepts that Ra has imparted throughout the material, and is why the Law of One can't always be reduced to definitive statements in regards to harvest. I hope this helps.

[unity100]

its not 'intuitive perception informing intelligence'. its personal preference dodging uncomfortable pointers, and going around it.

intuition is something that transmits the shapeless concepts into the conscious mind from subconscious. it is not something that leads to ignoring what is already being given.

here, you are just loading many meanings to the word 'gate to the present' and then proceeding to make conclusions that supposedly will override the realities of this particular creation.

the 'present' you speak of, exists beyond 7d, and it is the summation of all continuum in existence around all creations and universes. the 3d continuum you are trying to synchronize and make analogous to that 'present', can not even be an infinitely small part of that present, regardless of how you approach it. there are endless numbers of parallel universes next to this existence with their infinite numbers of different 3d continuum combining to make that 'present' you speak of in that future point. not to mention there are other continuum present in all of those universes and creations in different densities than 3d and these also combine to create that 'present'.

............

all you are doing is just extending the 'arent we everything' approach that some continually maintain in most cases and attempt to override harvest mechanic that was explained in the material, the dates, and directly given information therein.

'arent we everything' is just a referral to a FUTURE point in time continuum. as Ra says, there is past and future in 3d. so, such overreaching referrals do not mean anything : regardless of the referrals you make to the point of existence beyond 3d, regardless of how you pierce this illusion, you will still have to go to the toilet and take a dump. there is no way it will not happen as long as you stay incarnated in a 3d body. this is the reality of this particular point. i wont apologize for this coarse example, since i had especially picked it to be something mundane and accepted as given by everyone and would illustrate the point.

you may load extensive meanings to the act of taking a dump. you may say that, the vibration of your dump, is actually much higher than the vibration of the 8d of the previous octave. yes. it is higher than the highest vibration of the previous octave, including that octave's guardians and 'ascended masters'. but, this wont change the fact that regardless of the meanings you load to that act, you will still have to take a dump as long as you live in this 3d body.

or, you may penetrate intelligent infinity through violet ray and perceive the holistic and at the same time mundane nature of everyday acts and actions. you may realize that, taking a dump is both holistic and mundane at the same time.

this also wont take the fact that regardless of the referrals you make to future continuums or the 'present' that exist while nearing infinity, you will STILL have to take a dump, as long as you are incarnated in this 3d body.

same with the harvest. regardless of what kind of metaphors an entity incarnated in a 3d body makes to points nearing infinity, harvest will still happen with the mechanic it was meant to happen. just like how 3d bodies invariably go and take a dump at the LOO in this reality.

your intuition is not informing your intelligence here - you are basically ignoring the reality of this particular 3d creation, and trying to portray it as different. you may load infinite meanings to anything, and it is totally your own individual perception and preference as a soul, but, it is NOT 'intuition informing intelligence'. or any kind of balance in between logic/intuition.

there are information regarding chakras in the material, there are information regarding meditation. pyramids.

you havent informed your intelligence with intuition, and totally metaphorized these and made them actually NOT what they are up till this point. you took the information, as it was told, even if you loaded meanings to it. loading meaning to something is one thing, changing the nature of that real thing is another thing. you didnt say 'ra building the pyramid is a metaphor actually, and in fact Ra did not build it'. you didnt say 'chakras actually metaphorical, energy centers dont physically exist'. and so on.

but, in this harvest subject you are doing that.

[Raman]

It is different though. We are referring to final harvest which brings the whole of 3d and its meaning into play...the whole of an illusion to be ended. It is hard. It is not like taking about the chakras, or having intellectual conversations about octaves or veils..no..this is it...it means the end of this whole illusion, a totally different ball game...it is how evolution works. And we did not think it was going to BE HERE. Now that is even possible to grasp this surpassing the purely intellectual sense, it is very hard since many parts of our existence, logic, language, LIFE..is based on this illusion. It could be overwhelming.

[zenmaster]

Good example of intuition informing intelligence, Icaro. You've basically cut to the heart of the matter.

[native]

Thanks Zen. I'm pretty surprised there aren't more responses. It seems well laid out to me.

[AnthroHeart]

I would respond but I'm pretty simple minded when it comes to these things. I'm more of a feeler than an articulator of words.

[native]

intuition is something that transmits the shapeless concepts into the conscious mind from subconscious. it is not something that leads to ignoring what is already being given.

Intuition is the use of the conceptual mind, which allows us to make connections to the larger picture and guide towards more complete knowledge as stated below.

"Moving further down the tree of mind we see the intuition which is of the nature of the mind more in contact or in tune with the total being-ness complex."

"The mechanism of inspiration involves an extraordinary faculty of desire or will to know or to receive in a certain area accompanied by the ability to open to and trust in what you may call intuition."

---

We are referring to final harvest which brings the whole of 3d and its meaning into play...the whole of an illusion to be ended.

Explain further.

---

I would respond but I'm pretty simple minded when it comes to these things. I'm more of a feeler than an articulator of words.

Lol..a totally appropriate response for this thread.

[3DMonkey]

I've taken my post from another thread and started this intuitive discussion because I think it is an entirely different perspective.

The following is based on my understanding of time, the function/experience of the octave as a whole, and the comments Ra has made about the present moment. I think there are underlying metaphysical concepts to discern when considering the harvest. Ra could easily explain the following in one breath, but instead, they imparted a philosophy that when viewed as a whole, the concept of harvest could be understood clearly and accepted by a person in their own time. By giving specific answers to specific questions, through free will, we interpret the answers differently. Understanding can't be taught, so they don't lay it out that way. They only answer what was asked of them.

Firstly, in 16.19 and 16.20, Ra establishes the concept of the octave as a circle of being that never ceases but exists in the present. It's said that in third density, when removed from space/time which is where we are now, it may be seen how the past/present/future is viewed as a cycle of completion which exists as a present state. Third density is a microcosm of the octave, and when viewed from time/space, all of our third density experience exists as a moment. This is how the higher-self functions, and is able to offer its perspective in a collective fashion.

Third density is for the purpose of making The Choice. This density is the interaction of polarity so that one may choose which path to embark upon. The function of this octave was to provide this interaction of polarity, and is why Ra says it is the axis upon which the creation turns.

76.16...The prelude to choice must encompass the laying of the foundation, the establishment of the illusion and the viability of that which can be made spiritually viable. The remainder of the densities is continuous refining of the choice. This also is greatly lengthened, as you would use the term. The choice is, as you put it, the work of a moment but is the axis upon which the creation turns.

They also say the experience of third density is not necessary, which means it's irrelevant because the split of positive/negative created by third density all ends up as one in 6d and on up.The octave experience is the working backwards towards a greater accumulation of present moments that at the octave level, all of which is experienced as one moment or a timeless state. Densities 1-2, 4-7 experience time differently. If I'm correct, the other densities are different in that there is only the present, as Ra says they don't experience history as we understand this concept, and that their learning remains graven in the present. As I understand it, to the fourth density entity for instance, there is no ability to ever visit your 'historical' experience of fourth density itself..only those octave wanderers or whatever can do that.

So to recap, all of third density is combined as one moment. The third density is an illusion of experience of time as we perceive it. In the illusion we experience the passage of time. We are in essence, trapped inside this illusion where the passage of time occurs until we make The Choice. This is why in 17.2 it is stated that.. "We cannot offer shortcuts to enlightenment. Enlightenment is, of the moment, an opening to intelligent infinity. It can only be accomplished by the self, for the self. Another self cannot teach/learn enlightenment, but only teach/learn information, inspiration, or a sharing of love, of mystery, of the unknown that makes the other-self reach out and begin the seeking process that ends in a moment, but who can know when an entity will open the gate to the present?"

Making the choice is to once again break free from the illusion, which begins and ends in a moment because third density is only one moment. In this way, you step through the gate to the present which is fourth density. This is why you make contact with intelligent infinity when the choice is made, because you have tapped the potential of positive or negative that exists within the octave. So contact with intelligent infinity is also stated as the gate to the present, because if you don't make the choice you'll continue in another illusion of past/present/future.

Whether or not the harvest occurs gradually or instantly misses the point entirely. Third density is but one moment and so is the harvest. Because once you've made the choice in the incarnation, which is contact with intelligent infinity, you've been harvested in the metaphysical sense, you've made the choice and stepped through to the present metaphorically, and is why there have been examples given where entities were capable of harvesting themselves. 'The harvest is now' from this perspective makes more sense. The harvest mechanic approaches and is done in a moment, but we don't experience it that way. When Ra says the harvest will occur in 2011, they simply mean it approaches and is ready and waiting for an entities incarnation to end so that they may make the transition. In reality, we too experience the present moment because there is only the now. So the harvest is never tomorrow in a space/time sense because it can't be. The harvest is not applicable to space/time, but from the grand overview of third density, Ra can point to a time frame of 2011 as when the harvest approaches in time/space. This is why they state a time/space nexus for harvest.

The timing of the harvest cycles described in 9.3 is a rhythm. It seems to be an outward/inward pulse. If third density is but one moment metaphysically speaking, and the pulse is coming our way in time/space (inwards or outwards), translated related to the galactic plane in space/time, those moments intersect and those that can be harvested, are. Confining the harvest to irrelevant conceptions of past/present/future misses the point. The harvest is but a moment, yet we don't experience it that way. This is how the harvest can be gradual because it was stated that the harvest occurs in time/space. We aren't in time/space. I'm inclined to believe that as the harvest approach on the time/space level, we will continue to live out our lives as long as is viable. This makes sense because there is a lot of catalyst available for the choice to be made, especially as the veil thins. Upon death, which is the transition to time/space, the harvest occurs.

If you understand the concept of the octave and the present moment, we've already made the choice, we've already been harvested in all densities, and we've already turned back towards the creator. When Ra says in 16.20..

"In an overview such as an entity may have, removed from the space/time continuum, it may be seen that in the cycle of completion there exists only the present. We, ourselves, seek to learn this understanding."

...they are giving a metaphor for the movement back towards the Creator as they learn and understand, just as we try to do, to exist more and more in the present. Because the closer you move towards the Creator, you move ever closer to the state of timelessness.

All of this is intuitive perception informing intelligence. My perspective of a year ago changed when I grasped these intuitive concepts that Ra has imparted throughout the material, and is why the Law of One can't always be reduced to definitive statements in regards to harvest.

Magnificent, Icaro.

There are pinpoints I could address with praise, but it isn't necessary. I agree with every bit, and believe me I say I "get" each and every sentence. It must also be said for others that you haven't revealed to me but confirmed for me, so they don't think I'm following like a sheep.

There is one thing I'm not entirely on board with, and this is wholly personal with no particular reasoning related to the LOO material. I think when the body ceases to breath and pump blood, "I" am ceased as well.

---

Also, to add a little "crazy" monkey: 22 archetypes divided by 7 densities equals 3.14. Circle anyone?!

[native]

Haha..crazy. Yeah, infinity is best represented as a circle. I figured you would agree with this perspective!

So explain why you feel you'll cease to exist.

[3DMonkey]

In a nutshell without elaboration (derailing kook), I think that from top to bottom, all that man has created is a reflection of the archetypal structure. Everything, top to bottom. Like a circle that can't escape itself. Pure darkness is all I've ever seen over "there", when I am honest.

[native]

I would agree with that, how everything is symbolic and metaphor. All of creation is symbolic, and it's what I'm interested in focusing on at this point. The adept works within symbolic understanding, so it seems that all learning leads up to that point.

Explain further. Do you not believe that you will transition to another density? I think I've once seen you say something to the effect that the material is basically channeled archetypal understanding, as if Carla tapped the 'universe' and not Ra?

---

11:11 = 22

[unity100]

intuition is something that transmits the shapeless concepts into the conscious mind from subconscious. it is not something that leads to ignoring what is already being given.

Intuition is the use of the conceptual mind, which allows us to make connections to the larger picture and guide towards more complete knowledge as stated below.

"Moving further down the tree of mind we see the intuition which is of the nature of the mind more in contact or in tune with the total being-ness complex."

"The mechanism of inspiration involves an extraordinary faculty of desire or will to know or to receive in a certain area accompanied by the ability to open to and trust in what you may call intuition."

and, SOMEHOW, that larger picture that is informed by the use of something that is in the ROOTS of mind, allows you to conveniently circumvent something that is clearly given as information in a material you claim to trust and rely on.

moreover, your intuition has not informed your mind to 'this extent' in ANY of the previous discussions that have been done in this forum. but suddenly it decided to inform you in a subject which you needed to go around some uncomfortable bit of information.

it isnt intuition. its just going around.

it is not that easy to reach roots of mind just like that. if you were able to reach it on-demand, and use it in such precise fashion as to (somehow) divine the harvest out to be some 'present moment in time' with convenience, instead of something that was told to going to be happen in a certain date, you would not need to dwell in this forum.

again, i am reiterating that your 'informing the conscious mind by roots of mind' concept has not kicked in in any of the subjects we discussed without exception. a pyramid is still a pyramid, moses remained moses, you didnt even attempt to metaphorize annunaki. this prevents me from taking your approach in this matter seriously.

the stuff you speak of are deep stuff regarding archetypes of mind. they dont just come to you on-demand when you just need them and in the fashion you need. it is basically piercing the veil, and you would need to continually keep that state of mind in all of your acts and approaches for that to become something that could be regular.

therefore, there is no 'roots of mind informing the conscious mind' here. you are just using something that is a deep archetypical matter, to support what you believe. i will revise my list about what i have experienced while discussing this harvest matter with you, in the wake of this :

- started off with holding harvest and 'transition/move' into 4d as one and same
- when it was shown that they were not, you switched to arguing harvest had possibly started in 1937 with the move into 4d vibrations
- when it was shown that there were entities waiting for harvest despite being disincarnate, this time you outright went and slapped a 900 year harvest duration out of nowhere

and as of this moment you are still dwelling on it, despite a clear, purpose-specific question asked for querying exactly the same thing, and answer being contrary to what you hold in view as of now. you are just ignoring it and this time :

- going the way of claiming 'intuition' in 'reinterpretation' of a clearly worded, specifically asked question and its plain, blunt, direct answer
(added) - went on to use a facet of mind - which could be readily accessible when the veil is sufficiently pierced - to back your proposition up

the added last bit is no different than when you said 'Carla also said that she believed it would be a gradual transition in radio show'.

as you can see, your effort to keep the 'harvest wont affect anyone' perspective evolved over a total of 5 stages so far. it is still going in the same direction ,despite you claiming not to have any issues with a sudden disruptive harvest, with death and so on. you explicitly claimed these, and yet you have gone to great extents to find a way around that possibility. and despite you have excessively metaphorized it, expressed it in a totally abstract, subjective way almost taking it off of the reality we are inhabiting and putting it into something that is a back story in one's subconscious, it still evaluates to a comfortable, nondisruptive harvest when it is read.

if you had had worked on piercing the veil and archetypes and reached the roots of mind, it would show in your every discussion and actually every act. since, apparently no major traumas or sudden strikes of lightning happen to you since last night that caused you to traumatically pierce the veil to this extent (inform me if i am wrong), i am assuming that it is just your entrenched opinion defending itself.

you are just defending what you have been believing since a week.

if you argue otherwise, i would like to see you employ the SAME approach and descriptions you used in your initial post here to reevaluate the following :

- pyramids
- chakras
- sex
- a planet revolving around itself once
- moses
- annunaki
- orion craft that contacted moses

---

at this point, i will leave this discussion and leave discussing this subject with you. i am not intent on hammering something you dont want to accept the possibility of, despite your claim to otherwise. thank you for your discussion.

[3DMonkey]

I would agree with that, how everything is symbolic and metaphor. All of creation is symbolic, and it's what I'm interested in focusing on at this point. The adept works within symbolic understanding, so it seems that all learning leads up to that point.

Explain further. Do you not believe that you will transition to another density? I think I've once seen you say something to the effect that the material is basically channeled archetypal understanding, as if Carla tapped the 'universe' and not Ra?

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11:11 = 22

Sumerian creation, Bible creation, Chinese mythology, Greek mythology, astrology, freemasonry, male/fmale principles plus sex, two pillars with invisible arch, 3s with 7s, 22 archetypes, 22 Hebrew letters, 7 chakras, 7 colors of light, 3 fathe son spirit, 3 mind body spirit, 3 undertanding wisdom crown, math of a circle, golden ratio, morals, ethics, governing methodolgy, farming, parenting, academia, death, invisible somethingness, dreams, hypnosis, therapy, psychiatry.

On and on and on, we create and recreate the same thing over and over. IMO, (and I can't express myself withOut falling prey to the 3x7s), we are the energy expression that we are. The expressions of this solar system will change inevitably. A new expression will emerge. Our idea of "entity" is part of our current expression; it only means something from our perspective- a perspective that only exists because we happen to be a form of energy that happens to express itself in this way. We see shapes in clouds (representative analogy) that reflect nature because it is logical that the expression of this area of outer space applies the same "math" of form expression.

Sidebar: the only way "this" is an illusion is when we mate ourselves with the spirit. If we are physically focused, then spirit is perceived as illusion. When we take the leap of deep contemplation, and associate our surroundings with a spirit minded perspective then the physical becomes the "illusion". It is simply an exercise of the mind. It is simply enjoyment. "to each his own". There isn't anything special or advanced about being spiritually minded. Those that are simply got bored and decided to go "treasure hunting". Awareness and awakening aren't achievments, they are just expressions that believe themselves to be achievments. Which came first, the chicken or the egg?


I hope that I have beaten you down with examples of how everything is symmetrical in the universe we are privy to see. The idea of maintaining cognition and moving on intact is a mere expression of the m/b/s we just so happen to be. This planet will become something different one day, and who knows what sort of expressions will emerge.

(this only reinforces, in my mind, that extra terrestrials exist out there. I think most of what we interpret about that is of our own making, but I don't rule out the idea that some have been here at some point)

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As for unity100's list to apply the same approach. I can do it. I really can. But he won't "hear" it. That's a fact. Please don't antagonize him any further. I'm pleading with everyone here. Please. Pretty please.

[native]

if you had had worked on piercing the veil and archetypes and reached the roots of mind, it would show in your every discussion and actually every act.

I didn't know we were in a court of law, held to our statements as a matter of life/death. From the start I stated only that I believe the harvest to occur in time/space after death, and I tried, in several ways, to support that. This is a forum..a discussion. I was theorizing..discussing..talking..chatting..throwing out ideas..attempts at progression. You know, informal conversation. I've realized that I cannot directly interpret my understanding into one or two statements from Ra alone, which our interaction helped me to see, and I'm thankful for that. My position above is how I interpret the harvest, and I realize there is no other way for me to explain it other than that. Anyway, I hope you're done critiquing me. You've made your position known.

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On and on and on, we create and recreate the same thing over and over. IMO, (and I can't express myself withOut falling prey to the 3x7s), we are the energy expression that we are. The expressions of this solar system will change inevitably. A new expression will emerge. Our idea of "entity" is part of our current expression; it only means something from our perspective- a perspective that only exists because we happen to be a form of energy that happens to express itself in this way.

Well, the archetypal nature will have to remain the same. Or is that what you're disagreeing with?

Sidebar: the only way "this" is an illusion is when we mate ourselves with the spirit. If we are physically focused, then spirit is perceived as illusion. When we take the leap of deep contemplation, and associate our surroundings with a spirit minded perspective then the physical becomes the "illusion". It is simply an exercise of the mind. It is simply enjoyment. "to each his own". There isn't anything special or advanced about being spiritually minded. Those that are simply got bored and decided to go "treasure hunting". Awareness and awakening aren't achievments, they are just expressions that believe themselves to be achievments. Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

I agree..the physical and spiritual are entwined in every aspect. Inevitably, a rise in consciousness will reveal deeper layers of the illusion, and you will see the symbolic in everything if you are open to perceiving it.

[3DMonkey]

Well, the archetypal nature will have to remain the same. Or is that what you're disagreeing with?

I assume it doesn't need to stay the same. Although, I can't imagine it any other way because I am relegated by the nature myself.

I agree..the physical and spiritual are entwined in every aspect. Inevitably, a rise in consciousness will reveal deeper layers of the illusion, and you will see the symbolic in everything if you are open to perceiving it.

True. I think the reward is itself, and nothing "further" for the self.

[native]

Well, I hope to see 'you' in another time and another place, and not some dissolved version of you!

[Oldern]

Ever since I was introduced to the "all is one" concept (not neccessarily with Law of One, but even before that), I tried to look to the space around us for examples that might lead me to "enlightening". As this planet (and the whole universe, to a certain extent) was designed so that "micro-macro", "as it is in the Heavens, so is here", etc.

I have come up with several interesting examples for the concept that you outlined. I would not say that my examples are good or cover the topic, but it can help - and I am pretty sure it is not an accident that these are present.

1) The ocean and the droplets of water. Disturb the "ocean" for a moment, and the splash makes a lot of drops of water come out. Those drops no longer are the ocean, yet, whenever, however, they WILL find a way back to the ocean sooner or later. It might be a day or two (say it is just turned into gas state and then coming back as rain), or it might be years, decades (turning into ice, staying in the Antarctic for a long time), but for the drop, a lot of things happen in the meantime, a lot of changes, a lot of "adventure", but for the Ocean..the ocean is the ocean.

And once that drop is back to the ocean, it stops becoming the drop. It is now the Ocean, and it will be as the adventures never began in the first place. But it is now open to the possibility of a "parting" again (something that I suspect will happen to everyone...once we are back to being The Creator, we will forget all about this, and will play out the act of forgetting it again...and again..and again.)

2) Gravity. No matter what we do, this law prevents us from really "getting away". If you are a good jumper, you can jump higher than others, but that pulling is strong. And the parting from the "okay, now you are as close to the mass as possible" state is only a matter of seconds at best. Sometimes more. But then you are back to that "okay" phase, and you feel nothing extraordinary. You only feel the pull when you are away from the object that pulls you towards itself.

3) Stars, life of planets and systems.
To be honest, this one is the hardest to swallow as a human. As it is said, millions of years have passed, millions will pass, and a Star shines for a certain amount of time. But once it is stops "being", it is as if it never existed. Of course it did, but at the end of the day, the "existing" part is so little compared to the "not existing part" (I am not talking about the energy behind the star, but rather "it being a star"). That means, that while in the bigger picture, that existence is but merely an act of "now, it happens. now it is not happening anymore", for the life of that star/planet, it is all that matters.

All this is comparable to our state, I think. For the Creator, the act of escaping from the Infinity as droplets of existences last only for the moment. But that moment is everything to us. That is what we preserve as "being", and so much happens in that "moment" that it is insane and amazing at the same time. And then, the moment passes - passed, will pass, whatever -, and now we are whole again in the Creator.

That is my View on this, and the "Harvest" is, for me, something like reaching the apex of a jump (when we are furthest away from the Creator) and THAT is when the pulling back kicks in for real. That is when our graduation gets a huge powerup, actually being able to pull with a serious force.

[3DMonkey]

All this is comparable to our state, I think.

I think so too.

[native]

Interesting analogies Oldern. I have always thought that the concepts of 'spiritual gravity' and 'spiritual mass' were novel explanations. The call/pull towards each part of the creation and the central sun.

[native]

I have edited my original post to reflect some recent clarifications.