The Confederation

[Monica]

I am almost positive that it is what we came here for.

I'm curious. What is it you think we came here for?

To what you perceive as disagreement, I in fact agree, albeit admittedly with different perspectives or slightly different colored hues, particularly as regards my penchant of not stricturing or compartmentalizing words or concepts. Much like cloud gazing, it may be agreed that a party of two is indeed gazing upon the same cloud, but where one sees a bunny with ears the other sees a butterfly or puppy dog, notwithstanding that its just a cloud.

That analogy could be extended to signify the cloud as Truth (as from the perspective of the Creator) and ALL of our interpretations of it just that...interpretations of the same thing. But, are we satisfied with that? No. If we were, we wouldn't be having these discussions!

We already know that we're all seeing the same cloud. But we seem to have an interest in understanding why another person sees a bunny when we see a puppy.

Generally, that's ok, imo. It's fine to say "Hmmm....that's interesting that you see it that way. I see it this way." which happens a lot here at Bring4th.

Some of these discussions have ventured far beyond that, though. What I see happening is an attempt to delineate, demarcate, define, and categorize. While I can appreciate the intellectual workout such discussions provide, I also see a potential negative result; for is that not what the religions do? Do they not say "This passage from our holy book means this and not that." ...? And does that not lead to dogma, doctrine, and, ultimately, separation?

As just one example taken from the discussions of these last few days, the case of the word distortion. Such a minor thing, no? But is it a minor thing? I think not. The term distortion is probably used more in the Law of One than nearly every other word, except maybe love. (That's just a guess on my part; no I haven't counted them, but you get the idea.)

For the simple reason that it is used so much, I think it's very important that we either allow each person to interpret it for themselves, or, if we do pursue discussion of what exactly it means, then we might want to be very open to multiple offerings, for the sake of those who might be new to the books and who might take our words as absolute. By defining and categorizing concepts in the Law of One, even though to us it might just be fun, intellectual banter, we are essentially recording an evaluation/assessment/interpretation which could easily be made into a doctrine.

I think this is not just a possibility but an inevitability, and thus carries a responsibility.

This is why I felt it important to draw a distinction between the dictionary definition and what I (and others) felt was a more accurate understanding of a word as important as distortion. At the very least, contrasting ideas are presented, so that the person who is new to the Law of One might have an opportunity to consider both. While I appreciate your attempt to smooth it all over with images of bunnies in clouds, I think it would be a disservice to others on my part to agree that our disagreement about definitions doesn't matter.

[Quantum]

I am almost positive that it is what we came here for.

I'm curious. What is it you think we came here for?

For the eggs of course (i.e. the polarization effort, discovery in awareness,etc). Whatever else is there that would have drawn us to be here otherwise?

To what you perceive as disagreement, I in fact agree, albeit admittedly with different perspectives or slightly different colored hues, particularly as regards my penchant of not stricturing or compartmentalizing words or concepts. Much like cloud gazing, it may be agreed that a party of two is indeed gazing upon the same cloud, but where one sees a bunny with ears the other sees a butterfly or puppy dog, notwithstanding that its just a cloud.

That analogy could be extended to signify the cloud as Truth (as from the perspective of the Creator) and ALL of our interpretations of it just that...interpretations of the same thing.

Exactly

Some of these discussions have ventured far beyond that, though. What I see happening is an attempt to delineate, demarcate, define, and categorize.

I have not seen this in any manner? Where might this be expressed? For whatever its worth I on the other hand have a penchant for not stricturing and/or compartmentalizing thoughts or words as tightly, this as specifically posted in my last post above that you quoted. I remain curious however where it is that you see this delineation or demarcation concern.

While I can appreciate the intellectual workout such discussions provide, I also see a potential negative result; for is that not what the religions do? Do they not say "This passage from our holy book means this and not that." ...? And does that not lead to dogma, doctrine, and, ultimately, separation?

Negative result? This forum offers a virtual cornucopia of thoughts expressed. That is precisely the beauty of this forum. I see absolutely no danger of a dogma being created, and certainly not as regards the LOO, given each participants thoughts are checked and discussed within a community. Where might it be that you see this imminent danger present? Certainly not through group discussion where all have an opinion?

As just one example taken from the discussions of these last few days, the case of the word distortion.....For the simple reason that it is used so much, I think it's very important that we either allow each person to interpret it for themselves, or, if we do pursue discussion of what exactly it means, then we might want to be very open to multiple offerings, for the sake of those who might be new to the books and who might take our words as absolute. By defining and categorizing concepts in the Law of One, even though to us it might just be fun, intellectual banter, we are essentially recording an evaluation/assessment/interpretation which could easily be made into a doctrine.

You are mixing Threads and Posts here. To do so takes the "Distortion Discussions" extremely out of context as much as it does this one. The discussion on distortion is better and more fairly served where the full gamut of it may be digested under "Sessions in Focus" under Lavazza's wonderful thread "Oahspe." May I refer the readers to the last post on Sessions in Focus/Oahaspe instead rather than offering a rewrite of the many exchanges there? Admittedly it is a very interesting topic with many interesting exchanges. I would particularly refer the readers to the last two posts of 3D Sunset followed by my own of our mutual opinion.

I would suggest in closing that this forum offers a veritable banquet of thought expressed verses a singular opinion for which we needn't be concerned for the new reader. It offers a cornucopia of higher thought. It would require a consensus of opinion if not a unified group thought to run the risk of what you feel might be a danger. I to the converse believe we as a group are very much searching and exploring as a group, in fact strongly seeking through the many varied and kaleidoscopic opinions offered that are the treasure of this forum. Given that a doctrine requires the heavy hand of authoritarianism to be enacted, I think we may rest easy that there is little to any chance of this occurring with respect to the LOO. Notwithstanding that we all agree that the LOO is some of the most powerful reading we have partaken in, it remains a minuscule readership nonetheless. As such there is no chance imho that it will ever become a doctrine, nor that we need be concerned for the new reader on this forum with it's many opinions. This argument would be better suited for the David Wilcock forum where "the one man opinion" is a requirement to be a member or follower in good stead.

I think this is not just a possibility but an inevitability, and thus carries a responsibility.

Again, I suggest you may rest easy. The inevitability of this here on bring4th has proven virtually non-existent.

All is well,

Q

[Monica]

As such there is no chance imho that it will ever become a doctrine, nor that we need be concerned for the new reader on this forum with it's many opinions.

Provided there is a lively exchange with different opinions offered, I would agree. I saw many instances of opinion being expressed as though fact, to which I offered alternative viewpoints.

I refer you to some snippets from a few posts back:

Firstly:Many of the things Don asked were on many things Don was already aware of or knew for himself with certainty, which however Ra refused to answer

Many? Such as? Can you provide a few examples?

I ask you again for some examples.

So we have: (a) Don was not aware of many things, nor did he possibly believe vs disbelieve in these many things, many he further knew nothing of, yet Ra spoke to these things in any event (b) Don spoke to things which Don certainly knew of, or was intuitively aware of, or even absolutely knew with certainty of, which Ra refused to answer irrespectively.

a) I see no reason why Ra wouldn't
b) Such as?

Respectfully, Quantum, you have made some statements about something supposedly being in the Law of One as though factual. Would you be so kind as to please back it up with some examples?

Ra spoke to things Don knew nothing of, or even at first disbelieved in, yet answers and information were given, verses Ra refused to speak of things Don in fact did know of, or intuitively was aware of.

If Don already knew of it, then why did he ask the question?

How are you so sure that Don in fact already know of? Granted, he knew of the topic, but not the particular details of which he was asking. It was those details that Ra refused to answer. For example, virtually everyone knows about alleged alien abductions. That doesn't mean that they know as factual the reality of aliens. The questioner might know of the topic, but Ra decline to answer, because to answer would be a violation of free will for the greater audience. There are a significant number of people alive on the planet today who choose not to know about the existence of other beings.

[Lavazza]

Furthermore, is the Council past polarity? Or does it include STS-biased (even if no longer polarized) entities as well? Could Oahspe have passed for the purpose of teaching STS entities? Now there's a thought! Does the Council 'pass' STS missions or only STO missions?

If STS missions are approved by Council, with no show of favoritism, then indeed the channeled work might have passed, full of what would be considered distortion to an STO reader. But to an STS reader...it might be right on! Are we not assuming that the Council passes only STO works? Do we have a reason to make that assumption? We know Ra/Q'uo are biased to STO, but do we know that about the Council? Aren't they past polarity, as are Ra/Q'uo? But not on an STO mission like Ra/Q'uo and therefore obliged to pass STS missions as well?

By the way, Quantum, what do you think of my suggestion that Oahspe was passed because of its service to the STS community? Since you've read the book, I am interested in your opinion on this. I think my idea offers a valid possibility as to the whole point of this thread, so I am puzzled as to why you haven't addressed my direct question.

If I may chime in on this idea... it seems very unlikely to me that the Confederation is anything but STO in it's orientation. We would need to toss out quite a few if not very many of Ra's statements concerning the Confederation to make this idea seem possible. There are just too many examples of this in my opinion- not least of which are the epic battles between the Orion Confederation and (our) Confederation, the whole idea of the Quarantine, etc... If we decided that those things were not true as Ra gave them we could even begin to consider the Confederation as even remotely open to anything STS related. Not to mention that this idea is never stated by Ra or in the 25-something year history of Quo channeling.

The very nature of the Confederation, being a confederation, implies that they are of like mind and united in purpose.

I am curious though, is the apparent 'approval' of Oahspe by the Confederation what prompted you to such speculation, or are there other examples that have led you to the idea? In the spirit of questioning everything, I am interested to hear more.

[Quantum]

As such there is no chance imho that it (the LOO or bring4th) will ever become a doctrine, nor that we need be concerned for the new reader on this forum with it's many opinions.

Provided there is a lively exchange with different opinions offered, I would agree. I saw many instances of opinion being expressed as though fact, to which I offered alternative viewpoints.

But there is lively exchange, and there is lively discussion. Why the concern for something that is, as if though it may not be? As such, to your point, there is no chance imho opinion of this forum or the LOO ever becoming a doctrine, as inevitable or otherwise as suggested, even remotely so, and thus astronomically impossible.

As for "opinions" being misconstrued as though "fact": I know far less than about that which I do know. But I do know I know nothing with respect to that which is mystery. Would that I could take solace in the fact that I know I know equally with certainty that no one alive also knows anything as fact with respect to mystery as well. We are all seekers more than knowers. If we knew we could dispense with the seeking. Therefore all that is poised, posed, posited, and postulated is under opinion and question only.

As for myself I often assume the classic position of following a train of thought by way of a course of logical deduction vs induction. I assure you without knowing, that "Don knew some things" yet "did not know others". I can not crawl between his ears or into his mind to know this, but feel most confident that the gist of my statements were near to accurate enough to suggest "he knew some things" while "not knowing others", this without the need of knowing what he knew or knowing what he didn't know. Case in point:

Firstly:Many of the things Don asked were on many things Don was already "aware of" or knew for himself with certainty, which however Ra refused to answer.....or....Ra spoke to things Don "knew nothing of", or even at first disbelieved in, yet answers and information were given, verses Ra refused to speak of things Don in fact did know of, [b]or "intuitively was aware of".[/b]

Many? Such as? Can you provide a few examples?

Of course not. How might I possibly know what Don knew? How might I possibly know what Don didn't know. My positing these assumptions however may stand on their own merit, if not by fact, then by speculation. This is abundantly obvious. It is irrelevant as a point of evidence where none exists while yet marvelously open as a case for conjecture as to "what constitutes infringement of free will". This "was and is" the question and discussion, verses "what I know Don did or didn't know". One needn't know what Don didn't know to postulate that that certain things might have not been known but that Ra spoke to them in any event. The questions your asking seem pedantic, but also steer away from the point as to the original question with respect to "what constitutes infringement on free will" and that this is "the only" single reason that Ra might have been reticent to answer some questions. I have suggested that there may be more at play than this single answer. That is the gist of my speculation vs what Don did or didn't know, that I can not know.

By the way, Quantum, what do you think of my suggestion that Oahspe was passed because of its service to the STS community? Since you've read the book, I am interested in your opinion on this. I think my idea offers a valid possibility as to the whole point of this thread, so I am puzzled as to why you haven't addressed my direct question.

This is a most interesting question. I am left to ask more questions before speculating on answers. Your primary question was:

Could Oahspe have passed for the purpose of teaching STS entities? Now there's a thought! Does the Council 'pass' STS missions or only STO missions?

If memory serves, I believe it was either Gary or Steve that offered a brilliant LOO posting vis-a-vis Ra as an answer to very much this same question of sorts in the past under a different thread and post having to do with STS. If memory further serves it may have been a post that 3D Sunset began (forgive me dear friend if it was not you). I believe the short answer was "not likely" in as much as it would not be efficient for STO to serve STS. I am very much in agreement to my memory (lol) of the general answer as posted by Gary or Steve by way of Ra (forgive me guys for giving either of you credit if incorrect as well) such that it is not likely that STS missions are approved or assisted by the Council, in as much as the Council has it's counterpart called the "Orion Group" who presumably need no help from their STO brethren in their STS mission, as well as such assistance being counter-productive to STO in any event. Ra offered that they found it humorous for the L/L group to offer the STS entity pestering them any form of love or assistance through love (which is service), given that the STS pest would have been less than happy at their loving service offered and would have as likely shunned it or rebuked it. Thus, it is highly unlikely that the Council, would by inference, also indulge in such humorous attempts. For those of you out there that are quicker at these abominable searches, please do assist in finding the response given by Ra, or Gary/Steve, if any remembers. If it was in the "Hidden Hand" thread by 3D Sunset, then the post is lost to posterity, but not the Ra quote. If it is buried elsewhere it would serve well here.

Please see below for the Ra information as regards the Council and the "Orion Group"

Questioner: I have a question about that Council. Who are the members, and how does the Council function?

Ra: I am Ra. The members of the Council are representatives from the Confederation and from those vibratory levels of your inner planes bearing responsibility for your third density. The names are not important because there are no names. Your mind/body/spirit complexes request names and so, in many cases, the vibratory sound complexes which are consonant with the vibratory distortions of each entity are used. However, the name concept is not part of the Council. If names are requested, we will attempt them. However, not all have chosen names.

In number, the Council that sits in constant session, though varying in its members by means of balancing, which takes place, what you would call irregularly, is nine. That is the Session Council. To back up this Council, there are twenty-four entities which offer their services as requested. These entities faithfully watch and have been called Guardians.

The Council operates by means of, what you would call, telepathic contact with the oneness or unity of the nine, the distortions blending harmoniously so that the Law of One prevails with ease. When a need for thought is present, the Council retains the distortion-complex of this need, balancing it as described, and then recommends what it considers as appropriate action. This includes: One, the duty of admitting social memory complexes to the Confederation; Two, offering aid to those who are unsure how to aid the social memory complex requesting aid in a way consonant with both the call, the Law, and the number of those calling (that is to say, sometimes the resistance of the call); Three, internal questions in the Council are determined.

These are the prominent duties of the Council. They are, if in any doubt, able to contact the twenty-four who then offer consensus/judgment/thinking to the Council. The Council then may reconsider any question.

Questioner: What is the density of the Orion group?

Ra: I am Ra. Like the Confederation, the densities of the mass consciousnesses which comprise that group are varied. There are a very few third density, a larger number of fourth density, a similarly large number of fifth density, and very few sixth-density entities comprising this organization. Their numbers are perhaps one-tenth ours at any point in the space/time continuum as the problem of spiritual entropy causes them to experience constant disintegration of their social memory complexes. Their power is the same as ours. The Law of One blinks neither at the light nor the darkness, but is available for service to others and service to self. However, service to others results in service to self, thus preserving and further harmonizing the distortions of those entities seeking intelligent infinity through these disciplines.

Those seeking intelligent infinity through the use of service to self create the same amount of power but, as we said, have constant difficulty because of the concept of separation which is implicit in the manifestations of the service to self which involve power over others. This weakens and eventually disintegrates the energy collected by such mind/body/spirit complexes who call the Orion group and the social memory complexes which comprise the Orion group.

It should be noted, carefully pondered, and accepted, that the Law of One is available to any social memory complex which has decided to strive together for any seeking of purpose, be it service to others or service to self. The laws, which are the primal distortions of the Law of One, then are placed into operation and the illusion of space/time is used as a medium for the development of the results of those choices freely made. Thus all entities learn, no matter what they seek. All learn the same, some rapidly, some slowly.

Wonderful speculation Monica. With the LOO information as given, it leaves us back at square one as regards the Oahspe question: what were the Council up to otherwise, if we table the infringement on free will assumption for the moment, which for the reasons cited does not always hold water.

Q

[Monica]

If I may chime in on this idea... it seems very unlikely to me that the Confederation is anything but STO in it's orientation. We would need to toss out quite a few if not very many of Ra's statements concerning the Confederation to make this idea seem possible...
I am curious though, is the apparent 'approval' of Oahspe by the Confederation...

I didn't mean passing by the Confederation (who, I agree, are biased to STO in their offer of service, even though they are beyond polarity). Ra said it was passed by the Council of Saturn.

---

what were the Council up to otherwise, if we table the infringement on free will assumption for the moment, which for the reasons cited does not always hold water.

STS entities are not concerned with free will violations, so the criteria for passing STS-oriented info might reasonably be expected to have different criteria.

[Quantum]

STS entities are not concerned with free will violations, so the criteria for passing STS-oriented info might reasonably be expected to have different criteria.

But it was passed by the Council (STO). Thus it is irrelevant what STS motives were, given they (STS) do not sit at the Council and did pass the Ohaspe, but do sit at what presumably is a counter-part to the Council at an Orion table, this as given by Ra above in my previous post.

The Council is made up from the Confederation. The Guardians back up the Council.
Confederation: There are approximately fifty-three civilizations, comprising approximately five hundred planetary consciousness complexes in this Confederation --> of which the Council is selected : 9 members) ---> which the Guardians back up : 24 members.

All are STO.

Q

[Lavazza]

I didn't mean passing by the Confederation (who, I agree, are biased to STO in their offer of service, even though they are beyond polarity). Ra said it was passed by the Council of Saturn.

Oops- I may have made a mistake here. I presumed the Council was more or less analogous to the Confederation or that the Council was something of a decision making department within the Confederation? I am still working me way through my first reading of TLOO books so this may be in part responsible for my confusion. Are they two separate entities / groups? Do they hold affiliation?

[Quantum]

Oops- I may have made a mistake here. I presumed the Council was more or less analogous to the Confederation or that the Council was something of a decision making department within the Confederation? I am still working me way through my first reading of TLOO books so this may be in part responsible for my confusion. Are they two separate entities / groups? Do they hold affiliation?

No mistake dear friend. You are quite correct. See above posts for clarification.

Q

[Monica]

As for "opinions" being misconstrued as though "fact"/...Therefore all that is poised, posed, posited, and postulated is under opinion and question only.

That is a given. I was referring to the choice of terms used, which imply that a person's opinions are obviously shared by others, which might not be the case.

I assure you without knowing, that "Don knew some things" yet "did not know others". I can not crawl between his ears or into his mind to know this, but feel most confident that the gist of my statements were near to accurate enough to suggest "he knew some things" while "not knowing others", this without the need of knowing what he knew or knowing what he didn't know.

We are having a bit of a miscommunication. I shall attempt to clarify. I wasn't asking what specific items Don knew or didn't know. I was asking for some examples of Ra refusing to answer a direct question to which Don already knew the answer. My point is that, while Don clearly knew enough about the topic to ask a question regarding that topic, he clearly didn't know enough about the topic to know the answer to his question; else he wouldn't have asked the question in the first place. Hence, while discussion of said topic might not have been an infringement of free will, Ra's confirmation or refutation of Don's assessment surely would have, and that is why Ra didn't answer the question. I see no incongruency in Ra's choice of when to answer questions and when not to. Am I mistaken that you seemed to be implying an incongruency?

...Ra spoke to things Don "knew nothing of", or even at first disbelieved in,

Whether Don already knew of such things was irrelevant. Ra knew that Don had called for guidance and answers, and Ra answered that call. The whole point was to provide new information. Avoiding infringement of free will does not mean never offering new information. If that were the case, there could never have been a contact at all! We might remember that Ra had access to factors in the equation beyond those that are apparent in the dialog between Ra and Don.

It is irrelevant as a point of evidence where none exists while yet marvelously open as a case for conjecture as to "what constitutes infringement of free will".

Exactly, as I just explained.

The questions your asking seem pedantic, but also steer away from the point as to the original question with respect to "what constitutes infringement on free will" and that this is "the only" single reason that Ra might have been reticent to answer some questions. I have suggested that there may be more at play than this single answer.

I'm surprised and disconcerted that you perceive my questions as steering away from the point of what constitutes free will, when that is precisely the point I was attempting to make. I regret that my points are not more clear.

Do you have a suggestion as to what other factors are 'at play?' Certainly there might always be other factors that we know nothing about. What we do know is that Ra made quite a big deal about the free will factor. It was mentioned frequently, so I think it's reasonable to infer, from their emphasis of it, that it was an important factor.

I believe the short answer was "not likely" in as much as it would not be efficient for STO to serve STS. I am very much in agreement to my memory (lol) of the general answer as posted by Gary or Steve by way of Ra (forgive me guys for giving either of you credit if incorrect as well) such that it is not likely that STS missions are approved or assisted by the Council, in as much as the Council has it's counterpart called the "Orion Group" who presumably need no help from their STO brethren in their STS mission, as well as such assistance being counter-productive to STO in any event.

The answer to this question hinges upon exactly who is the Council of Saturn. Let's explore that. Your quotes provide a starting point, but I think there are still some assumptions being made. For example, the Confederation admits some STS entities to penetrate the quarantine. Thus, it's not accurate to assume that the Council, or the Confederation, never has any dealings with STS entities.

I'm not saying that my idea is correct. I could be totally off. It's only an idea, offered for consideration.

---

Oops- I may have made a mistake here. I presumed the Council was more or less analogous to the Confederation or that the Council was something of a decision making department within the Confederation? I am still working me way through my first reading of TLOO books so this may be in part responsible for my confusion. Are they two separate entities / groups? Do they hold affiliation?

No mistake dear friend. You are quite correct. See above posts for clarification.

We know that Ra and Q'uo are biased in their service, offering it to STO entities. We know that they are members of the Confederation. However, is it accurate to assume that all members of the Confederation are biased to STO?

Maybe so. But I'd like to explore why we make that assumption.

[Lavazza]

No mistake dear friend. You are quite correct. See above posts for clarification.

Whew!

However, is it accurate to assume that all members of the Confederation are biased to STO? Maybe so. But I'd like to explore why we make that assumption.

Well, I would default to the base concept that it is easier to get things done when people who are of like minded intentions come together. Since it is easier I pose that it is more intuitive and natural. The analogy of people coming together to try and move a boulder comes to mind:

Questioner: I would like to make an analogy as to why there are fewer negatively oriented, and then ask you if the analogy is good.

In a positively oriented society with service to others, it would be simple to move a large boulder by getting everyone to help move it. In a society oriented towards service to self, it would be much more difficult to get everyone to work for the good of all to move the boulder; therefore, it is much easier to get things done to create the service to others principle and to grow in positively oriented communities than in negatively oriented communities. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct.

This quote of course speaks more towards the nature of STS and STO, but I feel it also can be used to make the case for people coming together to cooperate for a common goal. Of course I make the assumption that higher densities operate in a fashion that is similar to our own. So at the end of the day, I can only say that it makes more sense to me.

But again, we would need to seriously overhaul and / or toss out a lot of what we already understand from TLOO if we were to accept that The Council / Confederation is of mixed polarity. So I'll have to say, probably not the case.

[Monica]

we would need to seriously overhaul and / or toss out a lot of what we already understand from TLOO if we were to accept that The Council / Confederation is of mixed polarity. So I'll have to say, probably not the case.

Not mixed polarity. Beyond polarity. There is a difference.

[Lavazza]

Not mixed polarity. Beyond polarity. There is a difference.

Would there really be, though? If you call it mixed or beyond, it's still the same as "not exclusively STO". Right?

[Monica]

Not mixed polarity. Beyond polarity. There is a difference.

Would there really be, though? If you call it mixed or beyond, it's still the same as "not exclusively STO". Right?

No, they're not the same. Mixed polarity refers to that which is still struggling to polarize, ie. in the the lower densities; whereas, in the higher densities, those who had polarized to STS eventually realize that they cannot progress further, and recognize the Oneness of all. The latest that this can happen (if I remember correctly) is mid-6th density. Thus, prior to that, an entity would have indeed polarized to STS or STO in order to be harvested to 4D. Hence, even a 4D entity would not be mixed to any great degree, but would have polarity. Even an STO in the higher densities (4D, 5D, early 6D) still has polarity, because they still have to contend with their STS counterparts to some degree. Whereas, the way I understand it, those in the higher densities (for sure by mid-6th, but maybe sooner) would have already evolved beyond polarity at all. Those entities will recognize that STS entities are pursuing valid paths, and my speculation is that, perhaps, they allowed an STS-oriented entity to offer service for a specific purpose, to answer a specific call. Even if they are biased to STO, as we know our Logos to be, that doesn't necessarily mean that they would completely ignore the call of STS entities. Evidence for this is that they do allow the admittance of some STS entities thru the quarantine.

The term mixed polarity is often used in reference to information. I have not read Oahspe, but I get the impression from those who have that it is likely mixed polarity at best. I am not qualified to surmise whether it might be STS, but I offered the idea as a possibility only, that a mixed polarity or even negatively-oriented body of work was allowed in order to serve the greater good in some way. Pure speculation on my part and I could be totally wrong.

Polarity is a distortion. A normal and even important distortion, since we are presently in the density of Choice, which requires the distortion of polarity, but a distortion nonetheless. Past mid-6D, and maybe sooner, that distortion ceases to exist. They may have other distortions, perhaps, that we can't even begin to imagine, but separation isn't one of them, from what I can tell.

I see the concept as illustrated by the Tao, the spinning yin-yang symbol. Taken separately, each piece has polarity. But taken as a whole, in its spinning, moving state, there is no polarity. It depends on perspective.

[3D Sunset]

Polarity is a distortion. A normal and even important distortion, since we are presently in the density of Choice, which requires the distortion of polarity, but a distortion nonetheless. Past mid-6D, and maybe sooner, that distortion ceases to exist. They may have other distortions, perhaps, that we can't even begin to imagine, but separation isn't one of them, from what I can tell.

Hi Monica,

Excellent thoughts! Please allow me to elaborate on this from my perspective. Using my earlier analogy of a line stretching from minus infinity to plus infinity, if we were to replace my dichtomies truth/falsity with STO/STS, I think it applies directly to considerations of various messages as well as entities. Again, no message or entity is totally STO or totally STS. But any message or entity can be placed farther to one extreme or the other. What I think happens by mid-sixth density is that the evolving entity simply transcends the line. That is to say that they "meet at the infinities". Consider that after mid-sixth density the entity turns toward the light, and ceases serving others. Could this not be considered the ultimate service to self? To return to the source and leave all those struggling souls to fend for themselves? Okay, I'm being a little melodramatic, but you get my point. To me, mid sixth density is the point by which this whole polarity thing becomes meaningless, and those entities are neither STO or STS. They are "off the line".

3D Sunset

[Lavazza]

Not mixed polarity. Beyond polarity. There is a difference.

Would there really be, though? If you call it mixed or beyond, it's still the same as "not exclusively STO". Right?

No, they're not the same. Mixed polarity refers to that which is still struggling to polarize, ie. in the the lower densities; whereas, in the higher densities, those who had polarized to STS eventually realize that they cannot progress further, and recognize the Oneness of all. The latest that this can happen (if I remember correctly) is mid-6th density. Thus, prior to that, an entity would have indeed polarized to STS or STO in order to be harvested to 4D. Hence, even a 4D entity would not be mixed to any great degree, but would have polarity. Even an STO in the higher densities (4D, 5D, early 6D) still has polarity, because they still have to contend with their STS counterparts to some degree. Whereas, the way I understand it, those in the higher densities (for sure by mid-6th, but maybe sooner) would have already evolved beyond polarity at all. Those entities will recognize that STS entities are pursuing valid paths, and my speculation is that, perhaps, they allowed an STS-oriented entity to offer service for a specific purpose, to answer a specific call. Even if they are biased to STO, as we know our Logos to be, that doesn't necessarily mean that they would completely ignore the call of STS entities. Evidence for this is that they do allow the admittance of some STS entities thru the quarantine.

The term mixed polarity is often used in reference to information. I have not read Oahspe, but I get the impression from those who have that it is likely mixed polarity at best. I am not qualified to surmise whether it might be STS, but I offered the idea as a possibility only, that a mixed polarity or even negatively-oriented body of work was allowed in order to serve the greater good in some way. Pure speculation on my part and I could be totally wrong.

Polarity is a distortion. A normal and even important distortion, since we are presently in the density of Choice, which requires the distortion of polarity, but a distortion nonetheless. Past mid-6D, and maybe sooner, that distortion ceases to exist. They may have other distortions, perhaps, that we can't even begin to imagine, but separation isn't one of them, from what I can tell.

I see the concept as illustrated by the Tao, the spinning yin-yang symbol. Taken separately, each piece has polarity. But taken as a whole, in its spinning, moving state, there is no polarity. It depends on perspective.

Point well made, and well received. I agree. But I think we may have mis-communicated to a degree. Supposing the confederation is beyond polarity. In this case we could say that there is no polarity at all, which is different from exclusively STO. I am suggesting that "mixed polarity" and "beyond polarity" are the same in the respect that they, although different in every other respect perhaps, are still not "exclusively STO".

So my larger point is that this is not plausible for the mere sake that the Confederation has had battles with the Orion Confederation at all. For if they were "beyond polarity" there would be no conflict. And I am certain other things Ra has spoken of regarding the 'Fed would also need serious retooling. (I am loving the conversation though)

[Monica]

Excellent thoughts!

Thank you!

Using my earlier analogy of a line stretching from minus infinity to plus infinity, if we were to replace my dichtomies truth/falsity with STO/STS, I think it applies directly to considerations of various messages as well as entities. Again, no message or entity is totally STO or totally STS. But any message or entity can be placed farther to one extreme or the other. What I think happens by mid-sixth density is that the evolving entity simply transcends the line.

Exactly!!! :idea:

That is to say that they "meet at the infinities". Consider that after mid-sixth density the entity turns toward the light, and ceases serving others.

We can only speculate about those higher densities, but I would surmise that service is not so much ceased, as it is merged into a huge orgy of love.

Could this not be considered the ultimate service to self? To return to the source and leave all those struggling souls to fend for themselves?

But then, if they return to the Source, are not the struggling souls also included in that Source?

To me, mid sixth density is the point by which this whole polarity thing becomes meaningless, and those entities are neither STO or STS. They are "off the line".

Agreed! We undoubtedly do not understand the mechanisms of those higher densities, but I think we can at least agree that they have transcended the line.

---

So my larger point is that this is not plausible for the mere sake that the Confederation has had battles with the Orion Confederation at all. For if they were "beyond polarity" there would be no conflict.

Please refresh my memory. Where has Ra spoken of battles between the Confederations?

[Quantum]

To me, mid sixth density is the point by which this whole polarity thing becomes meaningless, and those entities are neither STO or STS. They are "off the line".

Agreed! We undoubtedly do not understand the mechanisms of those higher densities, but I think we can at least agree that they have transcended the line.

This applies only to "after mid-sixth". This does not seem to apply to the Confederation or to the Council by deduction, much less The Guardians. See the LOO quote after my attempt to Lavazza's question:

So my larger point is that this is not plausible for the mere sake that the Confederation has had battles with the Orion Confederation at all. For if they were "beyond polarity" there would be no conflict.

Please refresh my memory. Where has Ra spoken of battles between the Confederations?

I believe that Ra did speak to the fact that the battle was ever present as regards STO vs STS in terms of "protection, quarantine etc principles" as regards the ever present concern that 3D at least be protected from pure STS. They would presumably ransack and pillage this poor 'ol 3D if left to their own devices, chewing it up so much that there would be nothing left to play with. STO allows them to continue to play by virtue of their concern for us vs them. Lucky us. This was most notably exemplified by the fact that 5D STS more oft than not utilizes 4D STS which utilizes 3D STS and by the fact that the battle STO engages in is namely and notably by sending love and light in constant as their service to this battle.

To the question as regards the Confederation: I shall attempt to make an induction by the following Ra quote:

Questioner: What is the density of the Orion group?

Ra: I am Ra. "Like the Confederation", the densities of the mass consciousnesses which comprise that group are varied. There are a very few third density, a larger number of fourth density, a similarly large number of fifth density, and very few sixth-density entities comprising this organization.

Given that our team is 'like" their team, in the sense applied, our team's densities of the mass consciousnesses are also varied, e.g. very few third density, a larger number of fourth density, a similarly large number of fifth density, and very few sixth-density entities, by conjecture. This being the case, the Confederation is not beyond polarity. The Council (numbering in nine members) is made up of the Confederation and thus equally not beyond polarity. The Guardians (numbering in 24) as the back up to the Council is ergo also not beyond polarity. Thus, speaking to "beyond polarity" is not relevant to the original question posed as to whether the Confederation, or the Council, or even the Guardians might act in service to STS. I suggest, as before, not likely, this by the Ra quote that stated they found it literally "humorous" that the L/L group would attempt to assist the 5D entity paying them regular visits, this by sending it/them love, or service of any kind, which is by any other name "love" irrespectively from STO, which would in no manner be seen as "assistance" but would be rebuked and shunned as a "depolarizing mechanism" if accepted.

In a given polarity example, opposites in this case "do not attract" or even abide with one another. They repel as though magnetically charged, this by mere virtue of the "depolarization" factor should either accept either's assistance in their definition of love. STO assistance to STS is then an oxymoron by this logic as much as would be STS assisting STO deduced through the Ra quote.

Q

[Lavazza]

Please refresh my memory. Where has Ra spoken of battles between the Confederations?

Here are a string of question/answers from session 25 in Book 1 that speaks to battling confederations:

25.5 Questioner: You spoke of an Orion Confederation and of a battle being fought between the Confederation and the Orion Confederation. Is it possible to convey any concept of how this battle is fought?

Ra: I am Ra. Picture, if you will, your mind. Picture it then in total unity with all other minds of your society. You are then single-minded and that which is a weak electrical charge in your physical illusion is now an enormously powerful machine whereby thoughts may be projected as things.

In this endeavor the Orion group charges or attacks the Confederation armed with light. The result, a stand-off, as you would call it, both energies being somewhat depleted by this and needing to regroup; the negative depleted through failure to manipulate, the positive depleted through failure to accept that which is given.

25.6 Questioner: Could you amplify the meaning of what you mean by the “failure to accept that which is given?”

Ra: I am Ra. At the level of time/space at which this takes place in the form of what you may call thought-war, the most accepting and loving energy would be to so love those who wished to manipulate that those entities were surrounded and engulfed, transformed by positive energies.

This, however, being a battle of equals, the Confederation is aware that it cannot, on equal footing, allow itself to be manipulated in order to remain purely positive, for then though pure it would not be of any consequence, having been placed by the so-called powers of darkness under the heel, as you may say.

It is thus that those who deal with this thought-war must be defensive rather than accepting in order to preserve their usefulness in service to others. Thusly, they cannot accept fully what the Orion Confederation wishes to give, that being enslavement. Thusly, some polarity is lost due to this friction and both sides, if you will, must then regroup.

It has not been fruitful for either side. The only consequence which has been helpful is a balancing of the energies available to this planet so that these energies have less necessity to be balanced in this space/time, thus lessening the chances of planetary annihilation.

25.7 Questioner: Does a portion of the Confederation then engage in this thought-battle? What percent engages?

Ra: I am Ra. This is the most difficult work of the Confederation. Only four planetary entities at any one time are asked to partake in this conflict.

25.8 Questioner: What density are these four planetary entities?

Ra: I am Ra. These entities are of the density of love, numbering four.

25.9 Questioner: Would an entity of this density be more effective for this work than an entity of density five or six?

Ra: I am Ra. The fourth density is the only density besides your own which, lacking the wisdom to refrain from battle, sees the necessity of the battle. Thus it is necessary that fourth-density social memory complexes be used.

25.10 Questioner: Am I correct in assuming that both the Confederation and the Orion group utilize only their fourth densities in this battle, and that the fifth and sixth densities of the Orion group do not engage in this?

Ra: I am Ra. This will be the last full question as this entity’s energies are low.

It is partially correct. Fifth- and sixth-density entities positive would not take part in this battle. Fifth-density negative would not take part in this battle. Thus, the fourth density of both orientations join in this conflict.

May we ask for a few short questions before we close?

And now that I've found these quotes, I might pick out this as further evidence that the Confederation ( / Council?) are of STO in orientation:

This, however, being a battle of equals, the Confederation is aware that it cannot, on equal footing, allow itself to be manipulated in order to remain purely positive, for then though pure it would not be of any consequence, having been placed by the so-called powers of darkness under the heel, as you may say.

[Whitefeather]

Waow,
This is quite a debated thread and, in just a few days!
This below is good reading:

http://www.lawofone.info/results.php?sea...der=0&ss=1


Much love to all,

W.

[Monica]

25.9 Questioner: Would an entity of this density be more effective for this work than an entity of density five or six?

Ra: I am Ra. The fourth density is the only density besides your own which, lacking the wisdom to refrain from battle, sees the necessity of the battle. Thus it is necessary that fourth-density social memory complexes be used.

25.10 Questioner: Am I correct in assuming that both the Confederation and the Orion group utilize only their fourth densities in this battle, and that the fifth and sixth densities of the Orion group do not engage in this?

Ra: I am Ra. This will be the last full question as this entity’s energies are low.

It is partially correct. Fifth- and sixth-density entities positive would not take part in this battle. Fifth-density negative would not take part in this battle. Thus, the fourth density of both orientations join in this conflict.

Thanks! There it is, right there!!!

When I said 'beyond polarity' I meant 6D, not 4D. The Confederation evidently includes 4, 5, and 6D.

[3D Sunset]

This applies only to "after mid-sixth". This does not seem to apply to the Confederation or to the Council by deduction, much less The Guardians.

I quite agree. the council is not beyond polarity.

I believe that Ra did speak to the fact that the battle was ever present as regards STO vs STS in terms of "protection, quarantine etc principles" as regards the ever present concern that 3D at least be protected from pure STS. They would presumably ransack and pillage this poor 'ol 3D if left to their own devices, chewing it up so much that there would be nothing left to play with.

I think the subject of the quarantine is deeper and more subtle than this. I have been exploring that topic lately on my thread in Strictly Law of One on Logoi and Co-Creators. I'll briefly summarize what I've learned/concluded.

Quarantines are typically imposed on newly minted 3D planets for reasons along the lines of those that you describe Q. Earth, however has a "intensified" quarantine for reasons that until recently were not clear to me. After further considering it though in the thread referenced above, I think that the stronger quarantine is really the result of several things: 1) possible infringement on the free will of those from Mars by the Guardians and Yahweh, when their genetic structure was modified in the process of transporting them to Earth to continue 3D (this is essentially stated in the LOO), 2) possible infringement on Earth's free will to evolve its 3D life forms as it sees fit by the same action of the Guardians/Yahweh (this is a theory on my part) and 3) Concern that the changes implemented by Guardians/Yahweh might make the resulting humans biased toward STS rather than biased toward STO as chosen through the free will of our solar Logos (another theory on my part).

Suffice it to say for now, that I think that there is more to the quarantine than Don asked or Ra disclosed in the Law of One.

The Guardians (numbering in 24) as the back up to the Council is ergo also not beyond polarity.

The Guardians are an interesting story in and of themselves. Recall from your thread on Earth in 3D/7th Octave?, that we discussed that the Guardians are according to Ra: "from the Octave above our own". This delightfully ambiguous sentence may be interpreted in a number of ways, but I believe that Ra is saying that Guardians are, in effect, Wanderers from the next Great Octave of existence. As such, I do not think that we can actually speak of their polarity. If I were forced to take a position on this topic, I would say that the Guardians are beyond polarity.

Great thread and topics,

Love and Light,

3D Sunset

[Monica]

This applies only to "after mid-sixth". This does not seem to apply to the Confederation or to the Council by deduction, much less The Guardians.

I quite agree. the council is not beyond polarity.

As a whole, no. But their mid-6D and beyond, components, yes. We are all partially correct and partially wrong. Being that we don't actually know which portion of the Council (which density) made the decision to pass or not pass, I stand by my assertion that the possibility that the upper-density portion of the Council could have and might have passed some STS material. I'm not saying that's what happened, but only that it's a possibility that cannot be disproven. I don't think we can assume which portion of Council was involved in the passing of material task (unless we find a quote that addresses that specifically).

Which brings up another question: Whenever STS entities (such as the aliens who do the abductions) pass thru the quarantine, do they do so because they have permission? Apparently, those cases are allowed not by explicit permission, but by them slipping thru windows in the quarantine, which of course are implicitly allowed due to the design of the quarantine.

6.25 Questioner: Do any of them come here at this time in spacecraft? In the past, say, thirty years?

Ra: I am Ra. We must state that this information is unimportant. If you will understand this, we feel that the information may be acceptably offered. The Law of One is what we are here to express. However, we will speak upon this subject.

Each planetary entity which wishes to appear within your third dimension of space/time distortion requests permission to break quarantine, as you may call it, and appear to your peoples. The reason and purpose for this appearance is understood and either accepted or rejected. There have been as many as fifteen of the Confederation entities in your skies at any one time. The others are available to you through thought.

The above quote does not specify STO entities only. However, I'm interpreting this to mean that the granting of permission does apply to STO entities only, or at least in most cases, perhaps leaving open the possibility for exceptions? ...based on the next quotes, which clearly indicate that the STS penetration of quarantine seems to be allowed not by explicit permission, but by the design of the quarantine, which allows occasional penetration. Thus, by its design, implicit permission for occasional slips has been granted. The only other possibility I can think of is that the windows in the quarantine were a mistake, or poor design, which I personally find implausible.

7.12 Questioner: I am interested in the application of the Law of One as it pertains to free will with respect to what I would call the advertising done by UFO contacts with the planet Earth. The Council seems to have allowed the quarantine to be lifted many times over the past thirty years. This seems to me to be a form of advertising for what we are doing right now, so that more people will be awakened. Am I correct?

Ra: I am Ra. It will take a certain amount of untangling of conceptualization of your mental complex to reform your query into an appropriate response. Please bear with us.

The Council of Saturn has not allowed the breaking of quarantine in the time/space continuum you mentioned. There is a certain amount of landing taking place. Some of these landings are of your peoples. Some are of the entities known to you as the group of Orion.

I would speculate that this next part of Ra's answer might be applicable to the question of why/how a questionable work such as Oahspe might be approved:

Secondly, there is permission granted, not to break quarantine by dwelling among you, but to appear in thought form capacity for those who have eyes to see.

Thirdly, you are correct in assuming that permission was granted at the time/space in which your first nuclear device was developed and used for Confederation members to minister to your peoples in such a way as to cause mystery to occur. This is what you mean by advertising and is correct. The mystery and unknown quality of the occurrences we are allowed to offer have the hoped-for intention of making your peoples aware of infinite possibility. When your peoples grasp infinity, then and only then, can the gateway be opened to the Law of One.

Isn't that precisely what we've been discussing in the Oahspe sister thread? Its unknown quality?

This next quote offers more clarification that the quarantine is not an absolute, but an attempt to balance STS and STO influence (balance in this context not being an equal proportioning, but whatever ratio is deemed suitable):

16.2 Questioner: I may be wrong, but it seems to me that it would be the free will of, say the Orion group, to interfere. How is this balanced with the information which you just gave?

Ra: I am Ra. The balancing is from dimension to dimension. The attempts of the so-called Crusaders to interfere with free will are acceptable upon the dimension of their understanding. However, the mind/body/spirit complexes of this dimension you call third form a dimension of free will which is not able to, shall we say, recognize in full, the distortions towards manipulation. Thus, in order to balance the dimensional variances in vibration, a quarantine, this being a balancing situation whereby the free will of the Orion group is not stopped but given a challenge. Meanwhile, the third group is not hindered from free choice.

24.4 Questioner: How did the Orion group get through the quarantine 3,600 years ago? The random window effect?

Ra: I am Ra. At that time this was not entirely so, as there was a proper calling for this information. When there is a mixed calling the window effect is much more put into motion by the ways of the densities.

The quarantine in this case was, shall we say, not patrolled so closely, due to the lack of strong polarity, the windows thus needing to be very weak in order for penetration. As your harvest approaches, those forces of what you would call light work according to their call. The ones of Orion have the working only according to their call. This calling is in actuality not nearly as great.

Thus, due to the way of empowering or squares there is much resistance to penetration. Yet free will must be maintained and those desiring negatively oriented information, as you would call it, must then be satisfied by those moving through by the window effect.

[Quantum]

This applies only to "after mid-sixth". This does not seem to apply to the Confederation or to the Council by deduction, much less The Guardians.

I quite agree. the council is not beyond polarity.

As a whole, no. But their mid-6D and beyond, components, yes.

But if there is a mix as a whole, then the whole is not beyond polarity. It is to the Council specifically that we are speaking to, not a subset of it. Thus the Council is not beyond polarity.

Being that we don't actually know which portion of the Council (which density) made the decision to pass or not pass, I stand by my assertion that the possibility that the upper-density portion of the Council could have and might have passed some STS material. I don't think we can assume which portion of Council was involved in the passing of material task (unless we find a quote that addresses that specifically).

Here is the Ra quote that seems to answer this specifically as a definitive impossibility by magnetic vibration alone. It seems indeed that it is an oxymoron for STO to offer STS assistance as much as it would be for STS to offer STO assistance. Nevertheless, to entertain the question, were it to be assumed so, you seem to suggests an inverse assistance factor in any event by the fact that by your logic the more STO a group becomes the more the possibility of STS assistance. Even were one to assume such a position that STO offers STS assistance, it would at least seem more likely that the lower STO vibration the greater the possibility verses the higher the STO the far less likelihood the assistance to STS. In any case, here is the quote that quite definitively answers the assumption posed that STO does not offer STS assistance:

Questioner: Then there is no other service at this time that we can offer that fifth-density entity of the Orion group who is constantly with us. As I see it now from your point of view there is nothing that we can do for him? Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct. There is great humor in your attempt to be of polarized service to the opposite polarity. There is a natural difficulty in doing so since what you consider service is considered by this entity non-service. As you send this entity love and light and wish it well it loses its polarity and needs to regroup.

Thus it would not consider your service as such. On the other hand, if you allowed it to be of service by removing this instrument from your midst you might perhaps perceive this as not being of service. You have here a balanced and polarized view of the Creator; two services offered, mutually rejected, and in a state of equilibrium in which free will is preserved and each allowed to go upon its own path of experiencing the One Infinite Creator.

In any event, it stands to reason that the subset Council consisting of the subset you address of mid sixth density and beyond, being beyond polarity, would be beyond polarity considerations.

The Guardians (numbering in 24) as the back up to the Council is ergo also not beyond polarity.

The Guardians are an interesting story in and of themselves. Recall from your thread on Earth in 3D/7th Octave?, that we discussed that the Guardians are according to Ra: "from the Octave above our own". This delightfully ambiguous sentence may be interpreted in a number of ways, but I believe that Ra is saying that Guardians are, in effect, Wanderers from the next Great Octave of existence. As such, I do not think that we can actually speak of their polarity. If I were forced to take a position on this topic, I would say that the Guardians are beyond polarity.

A-h-h-h-h quite right 3D. I remember. Here is the Ra quote to our point specifically:

Ra: I am Ra. In time of harvest there are always harvesters. The fruit is formed as it will be, but there is some supervision necessary to ensure that this bounty is placed as it should be without the bruise or the blemish.

There are those of three levels watching over harvest.

The first level is planetary and that which may be called angelic. This type of guardian includes the mind/body/spirit complex totality or Higher Self of an entity and those inner plane entities which have been attracted to this entity through its inner seeking.

The second class of those who ward this process are those of the Confederation who have the honor/duty of standing in the small places at the edge of the steps of light/love so that those entities being harvested will not, no matter how confused or unable to make contact with their Higher Self, stumble and fall away for any reason other than the strength of the light. These Confederation entities catch those who stumble and set them aright so that they may continue into the light.

The third group watching over this process is that group you call the Guardians. This group is from the octave above our own and serves in this manner as light bringers. These Guardians provide the precise emissions of light/love in exquisitely fastidious disseminations of discrimination so that the precise light/love vibration of each entity may be ascertained.

Note the upper case "G" verses the lower case "g" that Ra utilizes to distinguish guardians from GUARDIANS.

I would have to agree with you that the Guardians "must" be beyond polarity, this once again by simple deduction. If beyond mid 6th density there exists no more polarity, then one may deduce that the next Great Octave being beyond mid sixth also is (far) beyond polarity as well.

Q

[Monica]

It is to the Council specifically that we are speaking to, not a subset of it. Thus the Council is not beyond polarity.

I disagree. Who decided that we were speaking of the Council as a whole as opposed to a subset of it? If the subset meets the criteria of the point being made, which it surely does, then why must that be discarded in favor of some unspoken rule?

Just what is it we are 'speaking to?' Are we trying to establish some definitions, some rules, some doctrine?

On the contrary. My initial statement that the Council was 'beyond polarity' was in reference to the speculation that they might have granted permission for some STS or mixed-polarity material to be passed. In that context, my assertion was correct. While portions of the Council are not beyond polarity, other portions are beyond polarity; thus, the possibility remains.

I think it's rather presumptuous for us mere 3D (Wanderers or not) entities to try to define or compartmentalize multiple social memory complexes residing in densities far above our own. Evolution thru a single density takes millions of our years! How, then, could we possibly even begin to catagorize the assigned tasks and responsibilities of, say, 4D Council complexes vs 6D Council complexes?

I'd rather not get caught up in semantics, but attempt to reach out in understanding of the concepts and ideas being offered for consideration.

---

It seems indeed that it is an oxymoron for STO to offer STS assistance as much as it would be for STS to offer STO assistance.

Respectfully, Q, you have misunderstood my point. I never suggested that an STO would offer assistance to an STS. Rather, I suggested, as a possibility, that the 6D portions of the Council, who are beyond polarity, serve both STS and STO lower densities.

---

In any event, it stands to reason that the subset Council consisting of the subset you address of mid sixth density and beyond, being beyond polarity, would be beyond polarity considerations.

By 'considerations' do you mean considerations of themselves, or do you mean that they ignore the polarity of their lower-density brethren?

If the latter, then that is in agreement with my point: That they might grant permission irrespective of the polarity of the entity seeking permission.

Of course, this is presupposing that those portions of the Council are of mid-6th or above. Which, as I stated before, is pure speculation. As far as I know, Ra has never specified precisely which portions of the Council have the honor of performing the task of granting permission. Perhaps it is those of 4 or 5D or even lower 6D, in which case my theory would, presumably, be incorrect. However, there is still the issue of the implicit permission granted to STS entities, by the design of a quarantine with holes. Therefore, I don't find it implausible to speculate that the Council, or at least the higher density portions of the Council, serves all, irrespective of polarity. In which case, STS calls must be answered as well.

Even Ra, though biased in service to STO, recognizes the value of the STS polarity. No judgment is made. Ra/Q'uo have stated that they provide service to STO. But that doesn't necessarily preclude the possibility that certain portions of the Council might not have the task of honoring all requests, provided they are within quarantine and First Distortion guidelines.

[3D Sunset]

I would have to agree with you that the Guardians "must" be beyond polarity, this once again by simple deduction. If beyond mid 6th density there exists no more polarity, then one may deduce that the next Great Octave being beyond mid sixth also is (far) beyond polarity as well.

Still, I hasten to point out that this is speculation on our part, as we know that the next great Octave of existence is a mystery even to those of Ra. As such, it is entirely possible that the same or another type of polarity is introduced there and the Guardians are acting within those constraints.

Given our perspective from this Octave and density though, I agree with your conclusion, but suggest that it was, in fact, inductive rather than deductive reasoning that led us to this conclusion.

As to the issue of capitalization, I have wondered often times how Jim/Don/Carla decided when to capitalize certain words. It is possible that Ra, speaking through Carla, used different inflection as he spoke the same words, but I strongly suspect that the use of the capital letters in such words as Guardian/guardian and Octave/octave for example, are the work of the Don/Jim/Carla based upon context rather than being communicated directly by Ra (as an interesting and related side note, I also wonder about the use of "/" vs "-" in several place). As such, I think that we should take all such distinctions with a grain of salt. This is, I think, an excellent question for us to ask Carla directly when she starts the Saturday chat sessions again this Fall. It is also one of the few questions about the Law of One that we can get a definitive answer.

Love and Light,

3D Sunset

[Monica]

Note the upper case "G" verses the lower case "g" that Ra utilizes to distinguish guardians from GUARDIANS.

That would be true only if Ra had physically typed the transcription or had explicitly specified whether to use lower-case or upper-case. I see nothing in the transcription indicating any instructions from Ra. However, Carla has stated that such nuances of meaning are often transmitted to her, so I would assume that she had some say in the matter of deciding which to use. Or, it might have been a judgment call by the transcriber. Or, it might even have been a typo. My point is that we cannot assume that it was necessarily a point made by Ra.

I've witnessed adherents of the Bible create entire doctrines based on the position of a single word. I think it's important to not take such details too literally or assign them undue importance. Although, I agree that it's an interesting observation.

[Quantum]

As a whole, no. But their mid-6D and beyond, components, yes.

But if there is a mix as a whole, then the whole is not beyond polarity. It is to the Council specifically that we are speaking to, not a subset of it. Thus the Council is not beyond polarity.

Who decided that we were speaking of the Council as a whole as opposed to a subset of it?

But we were speaking specifically to the Council as a whole vs a subset of it until you brought the subset principle forward? In any event, it still seems likely that the whole of the Council carries the day vs a subset, less the Council be divided in their mission. This does not seem reasonable or plausible.

Just what is it we are 'speaking to?' Are we trying to establish some definitions, some rules, some doctrine?

This point of establishing "a doctrine" has been raised more than once on more than one thread and more than one post as a concern of yours. I am not a moderator and certainly do not read as many posts as I assume you do. But I see little chance or opportunity of this ever taking place with such lively and varying discussions. I am not seeing this by any participating member. It seems our purposes are to engage in friendly dialogues and in offering differing opinions, not establishing doctrines? How does a doctrine become established by allowing debate, conversation, and study? It would necessitate the elimination of any of these verses the fostering of it.

On the contrary. My initial statement that the Council was 'beyond polarity' was in reference to the speculation that they might have granted permission for some STS or mixed-polarity material to be passed. In that context, my assertion was correct. While portions of the Council are not beyond polarity, other portions are beyond polarity; thus, the possibility remains.

Careful. We do not know with certainty that portions of the council are beyond polarity. All we may speculate is that the "Guardians" are beyond polarity. The Ra quote in the previous posts offered several times seem to contradict this sentiment quite effectively in any event, and as given by Ra with humor implied. It might be helpful were you to provide a Ra quote that contradicts the answer Ra offered. I'm open to delving further into your speculative assumption that STO might offer STS assistance, but it seems there is a clear stated bias based on the Ra quote of "not likely."

For example, the quarantine principle offered by yourself in the previous post seems limited to Quarantine as regards "protection of free will" specifically verses assistance to STS. I might assume that allowing certain quarantines to be lifted or penetrated lies more towards allowing a "balancing" so as to allow more for mystery in balance, e.g. the nuclear explosion example. In this manner I do not see this as assistance for or towards STS. It may even be argued that in a sense this is a very clever manner of allowing STS their "fair time" to provide STO with the needed catalyst to decide STO. Thus even this allowance seems to serve more towards an STO agenda secondarily than an STS agenda primarily. It is difficult in this context to then see how the possibility therefore remains that even "beyond polarity" offers assistance to STS, unless we toss the Ra quote out entirely in the process.

I think it's rather presumptuous for us mere 3D (Wanderers or not) entities to try to define or compartmentalize multiple social memory complexes residing in densities far above our own. Evolution thru a single density takes millions of our years! How, then, could we possibly even begin to catagorize the assigned tasks and responsibilities of, say, 4D Council complexes vs 6D Council complexes?

We can't. Hopefully we might make heads or tails out of these questions that arise specifically through the Ra quotes provided for this very purpose. Its the reason we're here and attempting to engage in the friendly discourse that such discussions provide, this with the willingness to explore and debate. Without debate, there is little exploration to be provided.

It seems indeed that it is an oxymoron for STO to offer STS assistance as much as it would be for STS to offer STO assistance.

Respectfully, Q, you have misunderstood my point. I never suggested that an STO would offer assistance to an STS. Rather, I suggested, as a possibility, that the 6D portions of the Council, who are beyond polarity, serve both STS and STO lower densities.

It seems your point is changing. As a result we're loosing ourselves here. What you first posited was:

We know that Ra and Q'uo are biased in their service, offering it to STO entities. We know that they are members of the Confederation. However, is it accurate to assume that all members of the Confederation are biased to STO?

This assumption posed seems to suggest a mixed orientation of sorts such that the Confederation might be STO and STS, or biased of whatever proportion. Again, by the Ra quote, not likely. As such it further seems to assume that the Council "being further mixed" as a result would pass STS information as a result. Passing information is unquestionably "of assistance". Therefore, since we've established that the Confederation by the Ra quote must be STO, as much as would be the Council, given that polarities while in polarity are opposites, and as such can not and would not mix, and that as such the Confederation is surely STO and surely would not be offering assistance to the Orion STS counter-parts, which "humorously", according to Ra, would be shunned or rebuked in any event. I would continue to speculate that even those of the Council "potentially beyond polarity", if beyond polarity exists in the Council, would be acting in discord to the membership that "is not" beyond polarity. It would be counter-productive, disruptive at worse, or minimally neutralize the body of the Council at best.

You then offered on post #44:

Those entities (beyond polarity) will recognize that STS entities are pursuing valid paths, and my speculation is that, perhaps, they allowed an STS-oriented entity to offer service for a specific purpose, to answer a specific call. Even if they are biased to STO, as we know our Logos to be, that doesn't necessarily mean that they would completely ignore the call of STS entities. Evidence for this is that they do allow the admittance of some STS entities thru the quarantine....I offered the idea as a possibility only, that a mixed polarity or even negatively-oriented body of work was allowed in order to serve the greater good in some way

An "allowance" statement clearly suggests "assistance."

In any event, it stands to reason that the subset Council consisting of the subset you address of mid sixth density and beyond, being beyond polarity, would be beyond polarity considerations.

By 'considerations' do you mean considerations of themselves, or do you mean that they ignore the polarity of their lower-density brethren?

Great question. I would offer that being beyond polarity would be defined as such, i.e. they have no polarity considerations, i.e. whether STO or STS, and as such offer only whatever it is they have to offer from a non-polarized consideration, notwithstanding that they have a "strong bias" towards STO. But in no manner imho would they pass STS information as a consequence. In this light, perhaps one might even go so far as to speculate that they don't even pass STO information, but play an even higher role we may not fathom. Thus being beyond polarity, they have no polarity considerations.

If the latter, then that is in agreement with my point: That they might grant permission irrespective of the polarity of the entity seeking permission....Of course, this is presupposing that those portions of the Council are of mid-6th or above. Which, as I stated before, is pure speculation. As far as I know, Ra has never specified precisely which portions of the Council have the honor of performing the task of granting permission. Perhaps it is those of 4 or 5D or even lower 6D, in which case my theory would be incorrect. However, there is still the issue of the implicit permission granted to STS entities, by the design of a quarantine with holes. Therefore, I don't find it implausible to speculate that the Council serves all, irrespective of polarity. In which case, STS calls must be answered as well.

Quarantine holes and passing STS information I might speculate are two wholly different conversations and thought processes altogether, and as such that the allowance of the one does not transfer as same to suggest an allowance of the other. Given that Ra specifically stated that the Guardians were from the Octave beyond their/our own, i.e. The Next Great Octave, we might speculate that the Guardians are indeed beyond polarity given that the the next octave is clearly beyond our mid-sixth octave as was seen in the last post exchanged between 3D and myself. This being so, and as the Guardians have as their primary duty "to balance and bring light", as stated by Ra, Quarantine issues fall into this category. Lifting and/or allowing penetration of quarantine is performed only by the Guardians, and not for the benefit or dis-benefit of either STO or STS as much as it is for balance. It seems likely that their mission lies more towards "balancing" , this for Harvest purposes, as likewise given by Ra.

Ra: I am Ra. The Guardians guard the free will distortion of the mind/body/spirit complexes of third density on this planetary sphere. The events which required activation of quarantine were interfering with the free will distortion of mind/body/spirit complexes.

Questioner: What is the source of this random number generator? Is it created by the Guardians to balance their guarding? Or is it a source other than the Guardians?

Ra: I am Ra. All sources are one. However, we understand your query. The window phenomenon is an other-self phenomenon from the Guardians. It operates from the dimensions beyond space/time in what you may call the area of intelligent energy. Like your cycles, such balancing, such rhythms are as a clock striking. In the case of the windows, no entities have the clock. Therefore, it seems random. It is not random in the dimension which produces this balance. That is why we stated the analogy was within certain limits.

Questioner: Then this window balancing prevents the Guardians from reducing their positive polarization by totally eliminating the Orion contact through shielding. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is partially correct. In effect, the balancing allows an equal amount of positive and negative influx, this balanced by the mind/body/spirit distortions of the social complex. Thus in your particular planetary sphere, less negative, as you would call it, information or stimulus is necessary than positive due to the somewhat negative orientation of your social complex distortion.[/b]

Thus I am speculating they (the Guardians) who have the duty of quarantine have nothing to do with the lessor concerns of "passing or not passing" information as much as they do to stand above the Council as a back up from beyond, this as given by Ra. Note the quote bolded above "Thus in your particular planetary sphere, less negative, as you would call it, information or stimulus is necessary than positive due to the somewhat negative orientation of your social complex distortion" would also seem to effectively answer your question of passing (STS) negative information in as much as negativity sadly apparently needs no assistance in our culture. Sad but true. Thus it seems that both the quarantine and passing information question is satisfactorily answered by this Ra quote.

This is a wonderful topic and thread with much coming through it as a result. Thank you Monica for the stimulating questions and to you 3D for pointing the finger, as well as you Lavazza and airwaves. These are my favorite topics on the forum...the LOO Material.

Q

[Monica]

But we were speaking specifically to the Council as a whole vs a subset of it until you brought the subset principle forward?

I brought up the 'subset' idea only as a possible explanation as to the question of how some questionable material might have been passed. It seems to have evolved into a rather heated debate of its own. The bottom line is that none of us knows for sure. We are all just interpreting Ra's words, and we have different opinions about it. I really see no point in continuing to debate something that is subject to interpretation. We're beginning to repeat ourselves.

In any event, it still seems likely that the whole of the Council carries the day vs a subset, less the Council be divided in their mission. This does not seem reasonable or plausible.

Divided in their mission? How does recognizing the Oneness of the higher densities make them divided in their mission? I don't see it that way at all. Each density has its own characteristics and its own tasks. Recognizing that the lower density complexes still enjoy polarity while the higher ones don't, does not make them divided.

This point of establishing "a doctrine" has been raised more than once on more than one thread and more than one post as a concern of yours. I am not a moderator and certainly do not read as many posts as I assume you do. But I see little chance or opportunity of this ever taking place with such lively and varying discussions. I am not seeing this by any participating member. It seems our purposes are to engage in friendly dialogues and in offering differing opinions, not establishing doctrines? How does a doctrine become established by allowing debate, conversation, and study?

There is zero chance of Bring4th offering an established doctrine. What I meant was that this discussion is beginning to remind me of discussions I've witnessed among those of fundamentalist religions, and they always resulted in division as well as a stagnation in terms of the freedom to explore and learn according to one's own guidance. When I hear words like "This clearly means that" or "It is obvious that my opinion is correct" it reminds me of their authoritative, doctrinal approach. I know that we all have our opinions, and it's fun to explore and contrast. I am simply suggesting, to all of us (myself included), caution when using terms that connote any sort of absoluteness. Not because they will necessarily create a doctrine, but because they often encourage separation/division. I contend that we are all just offering our opinions, and none of us can really say with certainty that anything is obvious. It may be obvious to us, but that doesn't mean it's obvious to others. They might see it differently. They might be perceiving some subtle nuance of meaning that eluded us.

Careful. We do not know with certainty that portions of the council are beyond polarity. All we may speculate is that the "Guardians" are beyond polarity. The Ra quote in the previous posts offered several times seem to contradict this sentiment quite effectively in any event, and as given by Ra with humor implied. It might be helpful were you to provide a Ra quote that contradicts the answer Ra offered.

I am referring to mid-6D and beyond. I'm puzzled as how you don't see them as being beyond polarity.

I see no conflict between the Ra quotes.

25.7 Questioner: Does a portion of the Confederation then engage in this thought-battle? What percent engages?

Ra: I am Ra. This is the most difficult work of the Confederation. Only four planetary entities at any one time are asked to partake in this conflict.

25.8 Questioner: What density are these four planetary entities?

Ra: I am Ra. These entities are of the density of love, numbering four.

25.9 Questioner: Would an entity of this density be more effective for this work than an entity of density five or six?

Ra: I am Ra. The fourth density is the only density besides your own which, lacking the wisdom to refrain from battle, sees the necessity of the battle. Thus it is necessary that fourth-density social memory complexes be used.

25.10 Questioner: Am I correct in assuming that both the Confederation and the Orion group utilize only their fourth densities in this battle, and that the fifth and sixth densities of the Orion group do not engage in this?

Ra: I am Ra. This will be the last full question as this entity’s energies are low.

It is partially correct. Fifth- and sixth-density entities positive would not take part in this battle. Fifth-density negative would not take part in this battle. Thus, the fourth density of both orientations join in this conflict.

Ra is not referring to physical warfare, but to the finer conflicts that occur when polarities collide. I know there are other quotes that discuss how STS entities cannot evolve any further as STS beyond mid-6D, and all is coalesced back into Oneness. That is what I am referring to by 'beyond polarity.'

I'm open to delving further into your speculative assumption that STO might offer STS assistance, but it seems there is a clear stated bias based on the Ra quote of "not likely."

Perhaps you missed my earlier post, in which I explained that I am not saying that STO serves STS, but that those who are beyond polarity serve both STO and STS.

For example, the quarantine principle offered by yourself in the previous post seems limited to Quarantine as regards "protection of free will" specifically verses assistance to STS. I might assume that allowing certain quarantines to be lifted or penetrated lies more towards allowing a "balancing" so as to allow more for mystery in balance, e.g. the nuclear explosion example. In this manner I do not see this as assistance for or towards STS. It may even be argued that in a sense this is a very clever manner of allowing STS their "fair time" to provide STO with the needed catalyst to decide STO. Thus even this allowance seems to serve more towards an STO agenda secondarily than an STS agenda primarily. It is difficult in this context to then see how the possibility therefore remains that even "beyond polarity" offers assistance to STS, unless we toss the Ra quote out entirely in the process.

May I suggest, as an exercise, that you try setting aside the idea of polarity-based agendas. Beyond polarity, there is no such agenda. All is ONE. All are served.

It seems indeed that it is an oxymoron for STO to offer STS assistance as much as it would be for STS to offer STO assistance.

Respectfully, Q, you have misunderstood my point. I never suggested that an STO would offer assistance to an STS. Rather, I suggested, as a possibility, that the 6D portions of the Council, who are beyond polarity, serve both STS and STO lower densities.

It seems your point is changing. As a result we're loosing ourselves here. What you first posited was:

We know that Ra and Q'uo are biased in their service, offering it to STO entities. We know that they are members of the Confederation. However, is it accurate to assume that all members of the Confederation are biased to STO?

This assumption posed seems to suggest a mixed orientation of sorts such that the Confederation might be STO and STS, or biased of whatever proportion.

No, not mixed STS and STO. Mixed STO and beyond polarity.

We do know this. We know that the Confederation includes both the lower density complexes that are STO-biased, as well as mid-6D and beyond.

Speaking of which, it seems to be generally assumed that entities might be STS until mid-6D. While true, it is also true that they may switch over sooner, if they so choose.

An "allowance" statement clearly suggests "assistance."

But again, this allowance is coming from the higher density that is mixed-polarity and who serve without regard to polarity.

I would offer that being beyond polarity would be defined as such, i.e. they have no polarity considerations, i.e. whether STO or STS, and as such offer only whatever it is they have to offer from a non-polarized consideration, notwithstanding that they have a "strong bias" towards STO. But in no manner imho would they pass STS information as a consequence.

This sounds like a contradiction to me. If they are offering whatever it is they offer, with no regard to polarity, then it seems unreasonable to me to then say none of it could ever be utilized by STS.

Quarantine holes and passing STS information I might speculate are two wholly different conversations and thought processes altogether, and as such that the allowance of the one does not transfer as same to suggest an allowance of the other.

Just because the mechanism is different does not necessarily mean that the principle is different. It is to the principle of which I speak, not the mechanism.

[Quantum]

In any event, it still seems likely that the whole of the Council carries the day vs a subset, less the Council be divided in their mission. This does not seem reasonable or plausible.

Divided in their mission?[/i] How does recognizing the Oneness of the higher densities make them divided in their mission? I don't see it that way at all. Each density has its own characteristics and its own tasks. Recognizing that the lower density complexes still enjoy polarity while the higher ones don't, does not make them divided.

I am seeing the Council functioning in "congruency" verses in "subset division" which is what makes any Council a council. As you have stated, "beyond polarity" as regards the Council is simply a speculation, but it is one worthy of consideration. I am suggesting as such, that if it is worthy of discussion, that any Council would be in full agreement verses a subset of a council acting "beyond polarity" carrying out a decision not mandated by the full consent of the whole said council.

Careful. We do not know with certainty that portions of the council are beyond polarity. All we may speculate is that the "Guardians" are beyond polarity. The Ra quote in the previous posts offered several times seem to contradict this sentiment quite effectively in any event, and as given by Ra with humor implied. It might be helpful were you to provide a Ra quote that contradicts the answer Ra offered.

I am referring to mid-6D and beyond. I'm puzzled as how you don't see them as being beyond polarity.

I do see this. This is self evident. I can not however see that smaller faction of a larger faction of varying densities would act in subset division, given that the greater majority are "not beyond polarity" and as such a Council is only a council if it acts in mandate as a full council.

Ra is not referring to physical warfare, but to the finer conflicts that occur when polarities collide. I know there are other quotes that discuss how STS entities cannot evolve any further as STS beyond mid-6D, and all is coalesced back into Oneness. That is what I am referring to by 'beyond polarity.

I understand and agree to the definition of beyond polarity. But it goes back to the same issue of a council being a council only if it acts in concert as ONE. Thus the "beyond polarity faction" of said council would not pass something "apart from the whole of the council" which by the quotes regarding said council being comprised of lessor densities as well could not pass something as though "without or beyond polarity". See?

I'm open to delving further into your speculative assumption that STO might offer STS assistance, but it seems there is a clear stated bias based on the Ra quote of "not likely."

those who are beyond polarity serve both STO and STS....May I suggest that you let go of the idea of polarity-based agendas. Beyond polarity, there is no such agenda. All is ONE. All are served....this allowance is coming from the higher density that is mixed-polarity and who serve without regard to polarity.

I see your point clearly. I even suggested the same in my previous post. Please refer back to it towards the end. But the gist of the point lies to the Council as a whole. This does not lend itself to "a Council" as much as it would to a "subset of the Council". Ergo this is not a Council. It is to the principle of "The Council" passing information verses those members alone "beyond polarity" passing information. Thats the difference and point.

I would offer that being beyond polarity would be defined as such, i.e. they have no polarity considerations, i.e. whether STO or STS, and as such offer only whatever it is they have to offer from a non-polarized consideration, notwithstanding that they have a "strong bias" towards STO. But in no manner imho would they pass STS information as a consequence.

This sounds like a contradiction to me. If they are offering whatever it is they offer, with no regard to polarity, then it seems unreasonable to me to then say none of it could ever be utilized by STS.

We are making progress. They wouldn't pass it without the Council as a whole. It is the Council that passes information, not those beyond mid sixth as a subset. See? They imho have no consideration STS or STO. But they would nonetheless imho act in concert with the Council as opposed.

Quarantine holes and passing STS information I might speculate are two wholly different conversations and thought processes altogether, and as such that the allowance of the one does not transfer as same to suggest an allowance of the other.

Just because the mechanism is different does not necessarily mean that the principle is different. It is to the principle of which I speak, not the mechanism.

My point is that "quarantine is wholly a Guardian Principle". "Passing information is wholly a Council Principle." It would seem they are not at all the same given the Guardians are in fact not even from our/Ra's octave, but are from the next Great Octave, which suggests they are beyond anything even Ra dares not plumb the understanding thereof.

I am curious as to what you think as regards my last closing statement as refards the Ra quote vis-a-vis your interetsing question of passing possible STS information?

Ra: I am Ra. This is partially correct. In effect, the balancing allows an equal amount of positive and negative influx, this balanced by the mind/body/spirit distortions of the social complex. Thus in your particular planetary sphere, less negative, as you would call it, information or stimulus is necessary than positive due to the somewhat negative orientation of your social complex distortion.

I am speculating they (the Guardians) who have the duty of quarantine have nothing to do with the lessor concerns of "passing or not passing" information as much as they do to stand above the Council as a back up from beyond, this as given by Ra. Note further the quote bolded above "Thus in your particular planetary sphere, less negative, as you would call it, information or stimulus is necessary than positive due to the somewhat negative orientation of your social complex distortion" would also seem to effectively answer your question of passing (STS) negative information in as much as negativity sadly apparently needs no assistance in our culture. Sad but true. Thus it seems that both the quarantine and passing information question is satisfactorily answered by this Ra quote.

By the way, I'm not at all seeing this as what you are concerned to as becoming a heated debate as much as I am loving the very lively, explorative and interesting question posed by you. Its quite thought provoking. I full well understand you are speculating verses making definitive statements. I am engaging you by citing the Ra quotes, which seems to be the point of any of our discussions, this towards a fuller understanding by challenging one another (as in playing together) to be better, or understand deeper, this to sharpen our wits with respect to what has been offered by the Ra source. In any discussion there almost needs be a challenge/play dynamic verses full agreement in order to assist the discussions impetus. I think we're doing a great job. Its what we're here for. Given the differing opinions, there will never be a doctrine. In that spirit, lets keep asking and challenging the questions and playing with our growth.

Q