1984.04.15 First Hatonn Contact After Ra

[Tenet Nosce]

I would like to now discuss this session, presumably the first one after Don's suicide.

There are two distinct parts to the session. In the first Carla is channeling Hatonn:

I greet you in the love and the light of the infinite Creator. It is a great pleasure to speak through this instrument once again and to be with each of you. This instrument was reluctant to begin, however each other instrument was more reluctant than she, desiring in common to hear our words through this instrument. Therefore, although this instrument is somewhat fatigued, we find the instrument most receptive and we are grateful for the opportunity to share our thoughts with you for you are our beloved friends, and there is no greater pleasure than in your companionship. From you we have learned so much. We thank you and bless you and offer, as always, to be with each of you, for the Confederation wishes to be of service even as we find ourselves served in the doing of this humble service.

So we know that Carla is reluctant to continue channeling after all that has happened. But there appears to be some pressure from... whom?

Also this: "From you we have learned so much." What, exactly, had Hatonn learned from the group? I would like to know! I think this gets back to the reason why Ra intervened on Hatonn elucidated in my thread on the Last Hatonn Contact Before Ra.

We find in the instrument’s mind a phrase which passed her ears this day. It is from your holy works and concerns the teacher you know as Jesus. It was said of him in this writing, “He can save others; himself he cannot save.” This is a greatly misunderstood portion of the writing which surrounds a greatly distorted telling of this teacher’s life and work. We shall explore it with you with your permission.

Stuck in Carla's mind, and clouding the channel, are somebody's words she heard speaking that day about somebody else's words about the life of Jesus and how his work was distorted. This gets back to my comments about the distortion of Jesus' message in More Positive but Less Harvestable. Who was that person, I wonder? Did they get the precious confirmation they were looking for when Hatonn spoke the same words that they had spoken to Carla?

Hatonn offers to explore it with their permission. Though I don't see anywhere in the transcript that permission was granted.

When the most rigorously unselfish person begins to heal, that person comes up against one of the great paradoxes of life of service to others, and that is this, my friends: beyond a certain point, giving to others robs the self. Therefore a life of perfect service to others removes the self. That is what occurred to the teacher known to you as Jesus. This teacher literally could not save himself, for perfect compassion had expressed itself in his incarnation. And in perfect compassion lies the decision to lay down the life for others. Each of you is at this time living a life of imperfect compassion by the standards set by the one known as Jesus. No matter how beatific and angelic your thoughts, how pure your motives, there is an instinctual sense of the preservation of the self. We wish you to accept this as a balanced and unquestionably necessary frame of mind as you pursue your path of service. If you give all, if you lay down your life continuously, you become literally too fine to withstand this illusion, and therefore you offer yourself as sacrifice for many …

(Sound of cats snarling.)

I am snarling along with the cats, here! And yawning.

I don't really agree at all with what Hatonn has to say here. Not past the first two sentences at most. I think Carla's mental fixation on Jesus is overtaking the session, and possibly corrupting the channel. Either that, or Hatonn, themselves is a sort of very early 4D energy, and somewhat susceptible to loving folly.

Jesus could not save himself, says... who? Why is Hatonn addressing this seemingly pressing question? Why does it need to be so urgently resolved in Carla's mind, before she can continue with the session?

Seriously, if whomever that person was that felt the need to make the session about Jesus ever happens to come across this post, I would like you to take responsibility for your actions. I think Carla deserves at least an apology. Maybe you and Jesus can help with her surgery bills as well.

Pardon our delay, but the instrument was laughing. We wish to assure you that in no way do we suggest the kind of enlightened self-interest, as this instrument would call it, that causes one to become separate and apart from others, judgmental, or in any way a stumbling block. Indeed, one can come very close to complete service to others and still remain within this illusion. But if all others are the Creator, are not you the Creator also, and is not the heart of your work your own worth? Therefore, we ask each of you not to lose that center of joy, happiness, peace, the gifts of the spirit of light which are given to you in meditation and are your birthright.

Let us dwell now upon this joy, for we would wish that you would feel more fully that which you wish to give.

Whoa, Nellie! Pardon our delay, but the instrument was laughing?! Now where did "enlightened self-interest" enter into the discussion, and why is Hatonn so urgent to point out that it is not what they were suggesting. To whom?

The next thing that comes from Hatonn is this sort of beatific rant that is filled with all the sort of empty platitudes I found in church as a child.

Look, even Hatonn says here at the end:

We leave you with the promise of our return whenever you would wish it.

Ah. The enigmatic "false promise" of return. If Hatonn could come and go as they pleased, then what was the whole Ra intervention about, anyway?

The session then shifts into Jim channeling Latwii, although Law of Confusion continues to reign:

I am Latwii, and am once more with this instrument. What a motley crew we have this evening. Forgetting lists, turning the tape recorder around, and forgetting the number of the card. We shall attempt response to your query amidst such difficulties …

Indeed. Most of the session now revolves around Carla's nagging question about the harvestability of animals (see In regards to eating meat )

I forgot my list. Could you address the subject of harvestable second-density animals, and the possibility of their living to third density, and how many of them do, and how many of them come back to be with their owners?

and also feels compelled to ask a question "from a friend" about some totally obscure ethical dilemma. Hmm.. now I wonder who THAT was?

The session just continues to devolve:

Carla: No, darn it. I understand that you can’t have a clear-cut answer, that each situation is unique. I gather that’s why there is no clear-cut answer. Is that correct?

I am Latwii. My sister, not only is that correct, but each situation is also always changing. May we answer you further?

Carla: No, thank you.

I am Latwii, and we thank you, my sister, for being allowed to confuse you further and for getting away with it and appearing wise in the doing. May we attempt another query?

Carla doesn't seem to want to accept that there is no clear-cut answer. There is no absolute principle from which to discern appropriate ethical behavior, but for the Law of One.

And so the "Curse of Ra" continues. Now, besides having everything they have already gone through, the group is getting assaulted from all sides by people who seem to feel that their own personal problems and pet philosophical topics are more important than universal truths.

Kind of pathetic, if you ask me. Trying to trick Latwii into "weighing in" on this or that supposed principle from which we are all supposed to live our lives. Or ask an idiotic question as if it were a gypsy machine reading your Tarot cards, and telling you what to do. How insensitive toward the immense suffering that the group had just moved though! Thanks, "S", for asking that question about your friend, that was immensely useful to the group. Mr. S thinks he is doing his something good for his friend. I say he is doing his friend AND the group AND himself a DISSERVICE. If Mr. S' friend has a question, he can come ask Latwii himself, no?

And poor Carla, whose health was already in somewhat of a shambles and conflicted over how the Ra communication conflicted with her Christian upbringing. Now a "good Christian friend" is trying to use the opportunity to console her with empty platitudes attributed to Jesus. I just bet, in the Christian friend's mind, she was doing humanity a service by trying to use the crisis as an opportunity to steer the Law of One back toward her own distorted view of Jesus' teachings.

(That last part is pure speculation, but that is my intuitive hunch so I am going to throw it out there. Also I suppose the friend could have just as easily been a man. Or maybe I completely projected that onto the situation.)

What I see here is a clear example, yet again, of how a communication gets distorted due to others' preconceived notions and expectations about what it is "supposed" to say. This results in, what I would consider to be, an all-out mental assault on Carla's mind, and just exactly the sort of move that the group was hoping to avoid.

I'm sorry, but I don't see very much LOVE here surrounding this group in this session. Isn't that a prerequisite for a clear channel? :idea: I see a lot of very selfish people, with ulterior motives, wildly distorted views on cosmology, each desperately trying to control something that they are incapable of understanding.

It is actually causing me to feel physically angry right now the level of twisted abuse that was committed here by "brother upon sister" and "sister upon sister". All under the false guise of Love! I've seen this kind of thing go down in a channeling group. Never to anywhere near this degree. But the demons are always there, ready to pounce. Disguised as angels, of course.

Some soiterology. eh? Causing one to physically suffer so that another can be redeemed through their pain.

[3DMonkey]

Thank you for putting this together. I mimic Your train of thought very closely. Except I don't get angry about it. I have no experience with group situations with channeling. I do recognize the personal twists and turns when reading transcripts of sessions though.

For some reason, I enjoy reading it while, at the same time, I don't consider it to be special. Special meaning as far as being anything I couldn't do on my own. Frankly, it sounds like nothing more than drifting thoughts. Therefore, to me, I determine that this is our way to communicate and that we are channeling constantly.

What am I babbling about.... The channeling dynamics are simple and common thought babbling. I dont have any real experience with psychotic persons or bad trips to give me apprehension. I know there is more to life than my own bubble though.

[Crown]

I think that Don had a major impact on the clarity of the Ra channeling. I always said that not all of their channelings are clear and understandable. Some of them are totally distorted and poluted jsut like any other type of information.

[unity100]

I would like to now discuss this session, presumably the first one after Don's suicide.

There are two distinct parts to the session. In the first Carla is channeling Hatonn:

[quote=Hatonn]I greet you in the love and the light of the infinite Creator. It is a great pleasure to speak through this instrument once again and to be with each of you. This instrument was reluctant to begin, however each other instrument was more reluctant than she, desiring in common to hear our words through this instrument. Therefore, although this instrument is somewhat fatigued, we find the instrument most receptive and we are grateful for the opportunity to share our thoughts with you for you are our beloved friends, and there is no greater pleasure than in your companionship. From you we have learned so much. We thank you and bless you and offer, as always, to be with each of you, for the Confederation wishes to be of service even as we find ourselves served in the doing of this humble service.

So we know that Carla is reluctant to continue channeling after all that has happened. But there appears to be some pressure from... whom?

Also this: "From you we have learned so much." What, exactly, had Hatonn learned from the group? I would like to know! I think this gets back to the reason why Ra intervened on Hatonn elucidated in my thread on the Last Hatonn Contact Before Ra.

We find in the instrument’s mind a phrase which passed her ears this day. It is from your holy works and concerns the teacher you know as Jesus. It was said of him in this writing, “He can save others; himself he cannot save.” This is a greatly misunderstood portion of the writing which surrounds a greatly distorted telling of this teacher’s life and work. We shall explore it with you with your permission.

Stuck in Carla's mind, and clouding the channel, are somebody's words she heard speaking that day about somebody else's words about the life of Jesus and how his work was distorted. This gets back to my comments about the distortion of Jesus' message in More Positive but Less Harvestable. Who was that person, I wonder? Did they get the precious confirmation they were looking for when Hatonn spoke the same words that they had spoken to Carla?

Hatonn offers to explore it with their permission. Though I don't see anywhere in the transcript that permission was granted.

When the most rigorously unselfish person begins to heal, that person comes up against one of the great paradoxes of life of service to others, and that is this, my friends: beyond a certain point, giving to others robs the self. Therefore a life of perfect service to others removes the self. That is what occurred to the teacher known to you as Jesus. This teacher literally could not save himself, for perfect compassion had expressed itself in his incarnation. And in perfect compassion lies the decision to lay down the life for others. Each of you is at this time living a life of imperfect compassion by the standards set by the one known as Jesus. No matter how beatific and angelic your thoughts, how pure your motives, there is an instinctual sense of the preservation of the self. We wish you to accept this as a balanced and unquestionably necessary frame of mind as you pursue your path of service. If you give all, if you lay down your life continuously, you become literally too fine to withstand this illusion, and therefore you offer yourself as sacrifice for many …

(Sound of cats snarling.)

I am snarling along with the cats, here! And yawning.

I don't really agree at all with what Hatonn has to say here. Not past the first two sentences at most. I think Carla's mental fixation on Jesus is overtaking the session, and possibly corrupting the channel. Either that, or Hatonn, themselves is a sort of very early 4D energy, and somewhat susceptible to loving folly.

Jesus could not save himself, says... who? Why is Hatonn addressing this seemingly pressing question? Why does it need to be so urgently resolved in Carla's mind, before she can continue with the session?

Seriously, if whomever that person was that felt the need to make the session about Jesus ever happens to come across this post, I would like you to take responsibility for your actions. I think Carla deserves at least an apology. Maybe you and Jesus can help with her surgery bills as well.

Pardon our delay, but the instrument was laughing. We wish to assure you that in no way do we suggest the kind of enlightened self-interest, as this instrument would call it, that causes one to become separate and apart from others, judgmental, or in any way a stumbling block. Indeed, one can come very close to complete service to others and still remain within this illusion. But if all others are the Creator, are not you the Creator also, and is not the heart of your work your own worth? Therefore, we ask each of you not to lose that center of joy, happiness, peace, the gifts of the spirit of light which are given to you in meditation and are your birthright.

Let us dwell now upon this joy, for we would wish that you would feel more fully that which you wish to give.

Whoa, Nellie! Pardon our delay, but the instrument was laughing?! Now where did "enlightened self-interest" enter into the discussion, and why is Hatonn so urgent to point out that it is not what they were suggesting. To whom?

The next thing that comes from Hatonn is this sort of beatific rant that is filled with all the sort of empty platitudes I found in church as a child.

Look, even Hatonn says here at the end:

[quote]We leave you with the promise of our return whenever you would wish it.

Ah. The enigmatic "false promise" of return. If Hatonn could come and go as they pleased, then what was the whole Ra intervention about, anyway?[/quote]

it is arguable that Ra had 'intervened'. you are taking initiation of Ra contact as an intervention. that is no decisive conclusion, especially without any solid reasoning behind it.

in addition, what they say is not a 'false promise' of return - indeed, if someone wishes, they can return, because it is the mechanic which governs the calling.

Carla doesn't seem to want to accept that there is no clear-cut answer. There is no absolute principle from which to discern appropriate ethical behavior, but for the Law of One.

alright then start enslaving people and claim you are polarizing positively, because there is no absolute principle from which to discern appropriate ethical behavior but for the Law of One.

law of 'one' becomes law of 'one' at the point where everything is 'one'. you are not at that point, but an earlier continuum in which there is future, past, and a lot of other things.

you need to choose a path and walk it - and there are paths. the very definition of a path, is unfortunately something straight and narrow, just like how it is defined below :

http://lawofone.info/results.php?search_...&ss=1&sc=1

in short ; there are dos, and donts for arriving at a certain location at the end of a path. of course you are at liberty to choose any path you like, and change your path however often you want, however without actually walking the path that was chosen, no waypoint will be reached.

making attributions to a future point in time, wont change that fact. if it was as such, there would be no path, no requirement, no this or that, and people could just progress by doing random things.

It is actually causing me to feel physically angry right now the level of twisted abuse that was committed here by "brother upon sister" and "sister upon sister". All under the false guise of Love! I've seen this kind of thing go down in a channeling group. Never to anywhere near this degree. But the demons are always there, ready to pounce. Disguised as angels, of course.

i think that you are exaggerating. but, i am not precisely sure what you are railing against. if, you boil it down to very basic principles and pose an argument, maybe it would help discussing it in its core levels.

[Tenet Nosce]

Thank you for putting this together. I mimic Your train of thought very closely. Except I don't get angry about it. I have no experience with group situations with channeling. I do recognize the personal twists and turns when reading transcripts of sessions though.

You're welcome! The anger somewhat surprised me as well... how strong the feeling was as I was typing it. So I decided just to incorporate that observation in the post.

I do have some experience with group channeling, and some of it gave me the heebie-jeebies . Mind you, it was not because of any sort of programming telling me that there was something WRONG with channeling. It was because of the vibration that some people would bring with them to the group. Some people are just very manipulative, and VERY adept and covering it up with a superficial "love and light" aura. I think most know not what they do, but that doesn't make it any less damaging.

There were certain people who would come to the group time and again, always complaining and suffering about the same thing. Always they tried to ask the channel "What they should do?" and always they received the same answer "Do what will bring you the most joy".

Yet something in their mind seemed to prohibit them from accepting this as the "right" answer. It was maybe just too simple?? Anyhow in the perception of a energetically-sensitive observer there definitely wasn't just "love and light" there in that room at times, if you know what I mean.

For some reason, I enjoy reading it while, at the same time, I don't consider it to be special. Special meaning as far as being anything I couldn't do on my own. Frankly, it sounds like nothing more than drifting thoughts. Therefore, to me, I determine that this is our way to communicate and that we are channeling constantly.

What am I babbling about.... The channeling dynamics are simple and common thought babbling. I dont have any real experience with psychotic persons or bad trips to give me apprehension. I know there is more to life than my own bubble though.

Yes, I see what you are getting at. In some ways I think we each grow to me more perfect channels for our own Higher Self. But with these types of channelings there is a certain vulnerability to the channel- especially the more foreign and exotic the channeled energy gets. There are some very serious risks to channeling, and I would hope that the Ra Material at least makes that much obvious to readers.

I know it is not obvious to many people that attend channeling sessions. They come in with NO IDEA what is going on, have NO CLUE about the potential risks to the channeler, and DON'T CARE about anything else but their own personal hell, which they conveniently dragged into the room with them for everybody else to see. Or not see, as perception allows.

I, also, have dealt with psychotic people in my personal bubble. I once shared a condo with somebody who opened themselves up to a negative contact through meth use... and let me tell you... this thing wanted blood. So.. again I guess that is just my personal experience which is admittedly unusual.

---

it is arguable that Ra had 'intervened'. you are taking initiation of Ra contact as an intervention. that is no decisive conclusion, especially without any solid reasoning behind it.

Yes, unity100, it is arguable. Ever and anon you seem to be wanting to express that things are arguable. And ever you are right. Though I offered links to other threads where I have offered reasoning. And you are present in those other threads offering your counterviews.

So, I am not sure if you are here trying to dismiss all of my previous reasoning as false, or if it doesn't count because I haven't specifically recounted it in this thread, or...? I will stop trying to figure out what is going on in your mind here. Will you enlighten me?

in addition, what they say is not a 'false promise' of return - indeed, if someone wishes, they can return, because it is the mechanic which governs the calling.

Well, I offered that no, they can't. I have a whole other thread discussing the idea that the Ra contact was an intervention on Hatonn. And you clearly didn't like the opinion I offered there either.

Which, of course, is fine. Maybe you could share more of where -you- are coming from. A personal story, perhaps, to help provide some context for your posts?

alright then start enslaving people and claim you are polarizing positively, because there is no absolute principle from which to discern appropriate ethical behavior but for the Law of One.

Yes, my friend yes. This is why the negative side exists. Remember? It is all just as well according to the Law of One. It even SAYS that in the Law of One.

Others keep trying to come back and project their personal ethical system onto the Law of One when there is nothing there. The dynamics of how this occurs is all right here in this session, which I am drawing attention to. Are you even paying attention to what I write, or do you just look for the first thing to argue against, and stick with that. Hmm?

law of 'one' becomes law of 'one' at the point where everything is 'one'. you are not at that point, but an earlier continuum in which there is future, past, and a lot of other things.

You have absolutely no idea "where" I am or "where" I came from.

you need to choose a path and walk it - and there are paths. the very definition of a path, is unfortunately something straight and narrow, just like how it is defined below :

Lol! That's a great phrase you used there "straight and narrow" which is typically invoked when others cannot live up to the "impossible" ideal of Jesus' life. I will put that in my own evidence column, thanks!

in short ; there are dos, and donts for arriving at a certain location at the end of a path. of course you are at liberty to choose any path you like, and change your path however often you want, however without actually walking the path that was chosen, no waypoint will be reached.

I challenge you to find anything in the material which suggests that, once one has made the choice, they are required that every future choice is in alignment with that. According to my read, Ra views 3D as a field of possibility where one is meant to have some leeway. Maybe try some darkness on for size every now and again, see how it feels? It is OK to play with the darkness, my friend, if you know who you really are. It is OK to NOT play with the darkness, either. I'm just saying the "straight line" approach to a path is not the only one out there.

i think that you are exaggerating. but, i am not precisely sure what you are railing against. if, you boil it down to very basic principles and pose an argument, maybe it would help discussing it in its core levels.

Well, emotions have a tendency to do that. As I alluded above, I was not suspecting that strong of an emotion to come out, so I thought it better to just document it in the post and let it be for now. I will give it a bit to churn around and see what comes out once I can see a bit more clearly.

---

I think that Don had a major impact on the clarity of the Ra channeling. I always said that not all of their channelings are clear and understandable. Some of them are totally distorted and poluted jsut like any other type of information.

A critical point that I think sometimes gets lost in the discussion!

[unity100]

Yes, unity100, it is arguable. Ever and anon you seem to be wanting to express that things are arguable. And ever you are right. Though I offered links to other threads where I have offered reasoning. And you are present in those other threads offering your counterviews.

So, I am not sure if you are here trying to dismiss all of my previous reasoning as false, or if it doesn't count because I haven't specifically recounted it in this thread, or...? I will stop trying to figure out what is going on in your mind here. Will you enlighten me?

the reasonings you have provided doesnt add up to enough. the picture you paint is as if Ra has intervened to prevent hatonn from doing tv communication. the appearance of Ra with a new project of advanced communication and this being preceded by hatonn ceasing direct communication does not necessitate Ra's intervention. this is the foremost point :

these three entities may have communed in between each other, and hatonn may have realized that it should get into an entanglement that Ra has previously got themselves in. there is no better entity (that we know, at least) than Ra to warn about such entanglements.

guardians may have intervened. this is the most probable one.

secondly, there are other points which you are using to rationalize, which start from a wrong footing :

So Latwii is basically insinuating that Hatonn was on the verge of making a mistake and infringing on the will of the people, and then was suddenly moved to 8D?!

I find that kind of strange. Hasn't an 8D entity already balanced love/wisdom and therefore never contemplate infringement on free will.

Then on 01.01.15 Ra comes claiming a need for diversity of experience in channeling, and a different slant on the information.

latwii says hatonn moved to the LAST octave of that density - that being 8th, of 3rd. not 8th density.

Thus, Hatonn has moved [to the] eighth or final or covering layer or dimension of this particular octave,

in addition, what they say is not a 'false promise' of return - indeed, if someone wishes, they can return, because it is the mechanic which governs the calling.

Well, I offered that no, they can't. I have a whole other thread discussing the idea that the Ra contact was an intervention on Hatonn. And you clearly didn't like the opinion I offered there either.

Which, of course, is fine. Maybe you could share more of where -you- are coming from. A personal story, perhaps, to help provide some context for your posts?

it is not a matter of liking or not liking. its a matter of rationalization :

here you are forgetting the very basic mechanics of spiritual development - if there is a call, it is heeded. it doesnt matter whether the end result of the call may end up infringing in any sense you take it - if there is a call enough to allow an influence, it is allowed. this even includes orion, which seek to violate free will as much as they can.

in short, if entities called hatonn enough, they would be allowed to return on behalf of the guardians as per laws of calling.

however, hatonn may not have chosen to heed the call and do whatever they were expected to do - this is their free will. this would probably be the case, unless hatonn had decided to totally go against the collective they are a part of, and the confederation.

however, they could return.

alright then start enslaving people and claim you are polarizing positively, because there is no absolute principle from which to discern appropriate ethical behavior but for the Law of One.

Yes, my friend yes. This is why the negative side exists. Remember? It is all just as well according to the Law of One. It even SAYS that in the Law of One.

No, my friend no. and i shouldnt be even needing to explain this to you, because your proposition is logically negligent :

negative path is the path in which entities are enslaved. IF you are following the negative path, enslaving entities IS something that you SHOULD be doing. the very definition of negative path, is enslaving entities.

enslaving entities is not something that is allowed in the positive path. it is not in its definition - it is in negative path's definition. you cannot just go say 'all is one' and then keep enslaving people and positively polarize.

you will negatively polarize, if you enslave. you will not positively polarize. enslaving other entities is something you should not be doing if you are polarizing positively.

Others keep trying to come back and project their personal ethical system onto the Law of One when there is nothing there. The dynamics of how this occurs is all right here in this session, which I am drawing attention to. Are you even paying attention to what I write, or do you just look for the first thing to argue against, and stick with that. Hmm?

you are not even paying attention to what you are saying. dont expect me to pay more attention to what you are saying if it keeps on like this :

in the above block before this, you ended up basically saying 'negative path is a valid path too' according to Law of One. however, what you were responding to wasnt saying anything which would need such a reply at all :

i have said that, there are certain paths which you CAN choose, but, 'anything' doesnt go in those paths. you cannot choose a negative path and serve entities or you cant choose a positive path and enslave other entities.

you are free to choose your path. you are not free to violate the requirements of that path.

basically the proposition was this, and you have basically responded by saying 'negative path is a valid path too'. yes, it is valid (until 6th). but, there are dos and donts in that path too.

law of 'one' becomes law of 'one' at the point where everything is 'one'. you are not at that point, but an earlier continuum in which there is future, past, and a lot of other things.

You have absolutely no idea "where" I am or "where" I came from.

yes. since you are typing behind a computer monitor to something we call internet, you are incarnated in physical form on this planet. therefore, you are experiencing this end 3d experiential nexus with us.

there is a future here for you, there is a past here for you. there was a time at which you havent posted that post, and there is a time (now) in which you had had posted that post.

you need to choose a path and walk it - and there are paths. the very definition of a path, is unfortunately something straight and narrow, just like how it is defined below :

Lol! That's a great phrase you used there "straight and narrow" which is typically invoked when others cannot live up to the "impossible" ideal of Jesus' life. I will put that in my own evidence column, thanks!

im leaving aside the fact that the quotes i have provided, which you have apparently not read do not pertain to anything about jeshosuah or any other caanan/middle east entity of the past, they dont belong to me either :

17.33 Questioner: Why is the negative path so much more difficult to attain harvestability upon than the positive?

Ra: I am Ra. This is due to a distortion of the Law of One which indicates that the gateway to intelligent infinity be a gateway at the end of a straight and narrow path as you may call it. To attain fifty-one percent dedication to the welfare of other-selves is as difficult as attaining a grade of five percent dedication to otherselves. The, shall we say, sinkhole of indifference is between those two.

Category: Harvest

26.36 Questioner: As you have stated, it is a straight and narrow path. There are many distractions.

We have created an introduction to the Law of One, traveling through and hitting the high points of this 75,000 year cycle. After this introduction I would like to get directly to the main work, which is an investigation of evolution. I am very appreciative and feel a great honor and privilege to be doing this and hope that we can accomplish this next phase.

Ra: I am Ra. I leave you, my friends, in the love and the light of the One Infinite Creator. Go forth, then, merry and glad and rejoicing in the power and the peace of the One Creator. Adonai.

Categories: Ra Contact, Ra Contact: Closing Statements

yes, the path is straight and narrow however much you may not like it.

in short ; there are dos, and donts for arriving at a certain location at the end of a path. of course you are at liberty to choose any path you like, and change your path however often you want, however without actually walking the path that was chosen, no waypoint will be reached.

I challenge you to find anything in the material which suggests that, once one has made the choice, they are required that every future choice is in alignment with that. According to my read, Ra views 3D as a field of possibility where one is meant to have some leeway. Maybe try some darkness on for size every now and again, see how it feels? It is OK to play with the darkness, my friend, if you know who you really are. It is OK to NOT play with the darkness, either. I'm just saying the "straight line" approach to a path is not the only one out there.

had you actually read what the person you are discussing with has linked, you wouldnt end up needing to ask it again. however, let me, out of courtesy, include it for you again - despite you havent read and pondered it -. this time with links AND c/p :

http://lawofone.info/results.php?search_...&ss=1&sc=1

17.33 Questioner: Why is the negative path so much more difficult to attain harvestability upon than the positive?

Ra: I am Ra. This is due to a distortion of the Law of One which indicates that the gateway to intelligent infinity be a gateway at the end of a straight and narrow path as you may call it. To attain fifty-one percent dedication to the welfare of other-selves is as difficult as attaining a grade of five percent dedication to otherselves. The, shall we say, sinkhole of indifference is between those two.

Category: Harvest

26.36 Questioner: As you have stated, it is a straight and narrow path. There are many distractions.

We have created an introduction to the Law of One, traveling through and hitting the high points of this 75,000 year cycle. After this introduction I would like to get directly to the main work, which is an investigation of evolution. I am very appreciative and feel a great honor and privilege to be doing this and hope that we can accomplish this next phase.

Ra: I am Ra. I leave you, my friends, in the love and the light of the One Infinite Creator. Go forth, then, merry and glad and rejoicing in the power and the peace of the One Creator. Adonai.

Categories: Ra Contact, Ra Contact: Closing Statements

you cannot 'play' with the dark and polarize. the only occasion in which you would need to 'play with the dark', would be to satisfy the experiential need inside you for experiencing that dark impulse you have in you, and then moving over. even at that point, you will not be polarizing positively while you are polarizing negatively. its not a game of 'random doings' with what one walks a path. when the entity experiences it and learns that it should not engage in that act due to the path it is following, it becomes something the entity should not do. if the entity is still compelled to engage in that act, it means the entity has not learned yet. but when it learns, the law of responsibility will act, and it wont just be a random game of anything you do goes.

Well, emotions have a tendency to do that. As I alluded above, I was not suspecting that strong of an emotion to come out, so I thought it better to just document it in the post and let it be for now. I will give it a bit to churn around and see what comes out once I can see a bit more clearly.

let me tell you what i am seeing here :

your beef seems to be with religions, jesus, this that - biases that the current societal mind has.

it seems you are interpreting behavior patterns and whatnot that were created by these biases, as 'paths'. that is not correct. these may or may not be paths. jeshosuah lived a certain life with certain societal biases, and after his life these were changed and beefed up fundamentally.

however, if you look at this entity's life, the act he undertook at the end of his life - ie sacrificing his life while remaining positive and without resisting - would probably pertain to a certain lesson of end 4th density, the latest sub octave of that density. THAT, may be a pattern that may be necessary to follow at the end of 4th density, in however form one may see - even if it is not necessarily cessation of an incarnation.

[Tenet Nosce]

No, my friend no.

Indeed. OK so here is what I am going to do. I am going to refrain from commenting on this thread for a minimum of ten (10) days. I would invite you to do the same. You are, of course, free to do as you will. Just a simple request from me, your brother, to you, my other self.

I am more interested in comments from others that are coming from the perspective of what could be helpful, or interesting, about the post, rather than what is "wrong" with it.

I would be interested to see where this thread might lead without framing it into a light-saber war based on a false dichotomy of "Tenet's View" vs. "Unity's View". After all, you and I are both on the same "side". At least according to my read of the Law of One.

[neutral333]

Wow! Great critique. I think you might be on to something but a bit over-analytical. The quality seems to be different than that of Ra but You interpreted some of the quotes much differently than I would have. Good job diving after the truth!

ONE LOVE

[spero]

I would like to now discuss this session, presumably the first one after Don's suicide.

i think if you read the epilogue after session 106.23 you'd find that the Ra contact ended with Don Elkin’s death on November 7, 1984.

the session you refer to is a sunday meditation on April 15, 1984.

perhaps this may change your perspective.

[Bring4th_Steve]

Although I see that Tenet has had his fill of academic sparring, so to speak, I would like to point out that if it weren't for two intellectual individuals bringing out good points and counterpoints, this thread might have sailed into the sunset like many other posts, where opinions are offered, a few good points made, but otherwise the potential for advanced dialogue would likely have fizzled out.

The quotes and perspectives from both Tenet and Unity have helped me to analyze the text in a way I would not have considered on my own. To refrain from talking for 10 days on this topic just to see what others would say is pointless, in my opinion. I feel that many of us who are watching this thread are not responding only because we are really appreciating the viewpoints and thought-provoking considerations.

Anyway, great analysis nonetheless! Might I suggest not to take each other so seriously. Talk through the larger points by bringing each other to agreement on the smaller proofs, and come to an advanced understanding/mutual acceptance instead of suddenly retreating with a claim that the dialogue has suddenly turned personal.

I thoroughly enjoy both of your contributions!

Cheers!
Steve

[Raman]

No, my friend no.

Indeed. OK so here is what I am going to do. I am going to refrain from commenting on this thread for a minimum of ten (10) days. I would invite you to do the same. You are, of course, free to do as you will. Just a simple request from me, your brother, to you, my other self.

I am more interested in comments from others that are coming from the perspective of what could be helpful, or interesting, about the post, rather than what is "wrong" with it.

I would be interested to see where this thread might lead without framing it into a light-saber war based on a false dichotomy of "Tenet's View" vs. "Unity's View". After all, you and I are both on the same "side". At least according to my read of the Law of One.

What the hell is your point again?

[Raman]

No, my friend no.

Indeed. OK so here is what I am going to do. I am going to refrain from commenting on this thread for a minimum of ten (10) days. I would invite you to do the same. You are, of course, free to do as you will. Just a simple request from me, your brother, to you, my other self.

I am more interested in comments from others that are coming from the perspective of what could be helpful, or interesting, about the post, rather than what is "wrong" with it.

I would be interested to see where this thread might lead without framing it into a light-saber war based on a false dichotomy of "Tenet's View" vs. "Unity's View". After all, you and I are both on the same "side". At least according to my read of the Law of One.

What the hell is your point again?

Sorry...Tenet Nosce...That was quite rude of me.

[BrownEye]

It is actually causing me to feel physically angry right now the level of twisted abuse that was committed here by "brother upon sister" and "sister upon sister". All under the false guise of Love! I've seen this kind of thing go down in a channeling group. Never to anywhere near this degree. But the demons are always there, ready to pounce. Disguised as angels, of course.

This is off-topic, but has to do with a possible source of anger. Do you know what an egregore is? I run into these things all the time on the web. http://hubpages.com/hub/What-is-an-egregore

It's not very logical for text on a screen to cause the thoughts to turn into physical anger. An egregore becomes even more blatant when it causes havok with your ability to talk about it or other negative thought froms. The other forum I spent a lot of time on had this problem, specific posts or private messages about the thought form would not post, sometimes rebooting the PC upon hitting the submit button, rebooting router, rebooting smart phones, and almost always crashing the web page. Meanwhile, endless meaningless posts about nothing continue without a hitch.

you need to choose a path and walk it - and there are paths. the very definition of a path, is unfortunately something straight and narrow, just like how it is defined below :

http://lawofone.info/results.php?search_...&ss=1&sc=1

in short ; there are dos, and donts for arriving at a certain location at the end of a path. of course you are at liberty to choose any path you like, and change your path however often you want, however without actually walking the path that was chosen, no waypoint will be reached.

This is how I think also.

[Tenet Nosce]

I would like to now discuss this session, presumably the first one after Don's suicide.

i think if you read the epilogue after session 106.23 you'd find that the Ra contact ended with Don Elkin’s death on November 7, 1984.

the session you refer to is a sunday meditation on April 15, 1984.

perhaps this may change your perspective.

This does change my perspective somewhat, as I was envisioning this session occurring after Don's death. I feel less angry about it, though my commentary is still more or less the same. I was more interested in looking at the transition back from Ra to Hatonn, and how that all played out.

But I did somehow get the idea in my head that the last Ra contact more immediately preceded Don's death. Thanks for making that correction!

[Tza 3DP]

I agree with Steve, i found myself liking post after post because each threw up new perspectives... and thats is what this is all about really, as we r all learning. I thank Tenet and Unity 4 the 'battle' if u wanna call it that lol.

Love and Light

[XionComrade]

I appologize if this is to much of a bump, but I felt the need to comment and share my thoughts/understanding on matters. I will attempt to help...Mine are in bold...Just my thoughts....

[quote='unity100' pid='46761' dateline='1310485414']


the reasonings you have provided doesnt add up to enough. the picture you paint is as if Ra has intervened to prevent hatonn from doing tv communication. the appearance of Ra with a new project of advanced communication and this being preceded by hatonn ceasing direct communication does not necessitate Ra's intervention. this is the foremost point :

From my understanding the transition through contacts, from lesser to more complex(Ra being the "Highest* they ever got) was due to Carla's "Tuning" as she put it. She was attempting to get the best contact possible, attempting to perfect the channel/herself so to speak. The purer/better the channel, the better the contact it will receive. It just so happens that around that time they were sufficiently tuned to receive Ra.

For what it is worth, from my current thinking, it seems that the "Tuning" is a way of getting contact from higher and higher densities, a third density channel would likely max out with a third density contact, a fourth density channel would max out with a fourth density contact. Interesting note is that according to Ra, the members of the group were Wanderers, and most wanderers are 6th density. Ra was 6th density, and the highest level contact they achieved(Any more difficult would have likely killed Carla, which the Ra contact almost did anyway). There is something to this, something to ponder over. Prophecy is a complicated matter I suppose for me at this point lol...

in addition, what they say is not a 'false promise' of return - indeed, if someone wishes, they can return, because it is the mechanic which governs the calling.

Well, I offered that no, they can't. I have a whole other thread discussing the idea that the Ra contact was an intervention on Hatonn. And you clearly didn't like the opinion I offered there either.

Which, of course, is fine. Maybe you could share more of where -you- are coming from. A personal story, perhaps, to help provide some context for your posts?

Can and Cannot are not terms that they seem to care much for, the contact with Hatonn ended because the group started the contact with Ra, a extremely physically draining and difficult contact, there was no reason to continue with Hatonn or any of the others because all that would accomplish is taking away energy desperately needed for the Ra contact, the one they had been waiting/working for all along in a way you could say. Hatonn could mass land if they wanted to, they could force the contact, they just didn't/don't want to, it didn't serve their purpose, it would hurt more than help. A point to consider around the philosophy of STO/STS and why they do what they do(Or in this case don't do)

it is not a matter of liking or not liking. its a matter of rationalization :

here you are forgetting the very basic mechanics of spiritual development - if there is a call, it is heeded. it doesnt matter whether the end result of the call may end up infringing in any sense you take it - if there is a call enough to allow an influence, it is allowed. this even includes orion, which seek to violate free will as much as they can.

Orion does not seek to violate free will much/any more so than the Confederation. There was a discussion in book 1 I think about why they don't just swoop down and crush the planet. They have a strong upwards drive towards the creator/spiritual growth just as the Positive entities have that is greater than their desire to take the planet, the option is open to them but the feeling is that they will not do this(Termed a gamble by Ra), they will not abridge free will at that level. The two sides are more similar than different, one directs its love towards self(Orion, that is) via manipulation of others and the others(Confederation/Positive in general) directs their love towards others. This is why they say something to the effect that Orion is Negatively oriented with the DISTORTION towards manipulation of others, the second part is not necessarily part of the Negative orientation, but in the case of the "Empire", they have chose this as a means to pursue spiritual growth along the negative path. Hope this helps in some way...

From reading up on encounters with the Negative entities, the general feeling I get is that the means are justified by the end to them. Not something you want to have a cup of tea with. Completely unwavering in their way, infinitely dedicated. As far as the general situation of the "Angels(Confederation) and Demons(Orion)" goes with us, remember it is a battle for the human "soul", not the body. The Body/"Physical Universe" is not real, it is a illusion, a figment of your human imagination/intellect. It gains Orion nothing if they crush the planet in a mass landing, and in the process violate our free will. In this case they lose their control over us once we die. They want us to willingly accept them/their philosophy, that is the goal. They have to bend our free will into that direction, manipulate us into accepting them. The devil works by tempting, so to say I guess. Not to say they wont happily kill/destroy a wanderer though, free will is by density, higher densities are responsible for lower ones. The war in heaven is very far reaching you could say.



No, my friend no. and i shouldnt be even needing to explain this to you, because your proposition is logically negligent :

negative path is the path in which entities are enslaved. IF you are following the negative path, enslaving entities IS something that you SHOULD be doing. the very definition of negative path, is enslaving entities.

It seems to be much simpler than this. To polarize positively, direct your love towards others in its entirety. To polarize negatively, direct it all to yourself in its entirety. The enslavement thing is something Orion exclusive, it is a amendment/addition to the base Negative philosophy/way of being. It is the way they have chose to follow Negative polarization by their own free will. For people of Earth, the hard part comes in defining/knowing what love is. It is a thing, imv, all to absent here. We are just a complex of energy, and energy is all that there is.

in short ; there are dos, and donts for arriving at a certain location at the end of a path. of course you are at liberty to choose any path you like, and change your path however often you want, however without actually walking the path that was chosen, no waypoint will be reached.


It takes great focus I will say, that is where my experience has brought me, it is a issue of focusing on what is important, what is not important just peels away. I am a new person every year.


you cannot 'play' with the dark and polarize. the only occasion in which you would need to 'play with the dark', would be to satisfy the experiential need inside you for experiencing that dark impulse you have in you, and then moving over. even at that point, you will not be polarizing positively while you are polarizing negatively. its not a game of 'random doings' with what one walks a path. when the entity experiences it and learns that it should not engage in that act due to the path it is following, it becomes something the entity should not do. if the entity is still compelled to engage in that act, it means the entity has not learned yet. but when it learns, the law of responsibility will act, and it wont just be a random game of anything you do goes.

Most of the people I know of who played with the dark died, horribly. And fairly quickly I might add. If they didn't die, something happened that traumatized them so bad they will never do it again. Playing isn't something to do in these areas....Just saying :3

[Siren]

Orion does not seek to violate free will much/any more so than the Confederation.
...the option is open to them but the feeling is that they will not do this(Termed a gamble by Ra), they will not abridge free will at that level.

May I expand on this subject while we're at it?

The ways/tools of negative orientation are deception, secrecy and manipulation. Perhaps for a 4D social memory complex the idea of mass landing and enslaving a (3D) planet would seem mildly attractive, certainly; but, is it not better to pull the strings from behind the curtains (or the veil, if you will)? To rule from the shadows—of the shadows.

One must understand how negative entities operate. 5D entities, for instance, see no use/need in manifesting down into the 3D spectrum of physical reality (except perhaps to greet highly polarized negative or positive entities).

In a way, a growing negative entity is an entity of entropy. Energy is drawn ever inwards to the self, devoured, absobed; not radiated. Therefore the expenditure of energy is carefully watched over. A negative entity is disciplined to the extreme in this regard. It learns self-control and it wastes nothing. It learns to become the Apex Predator. It sits still, it awaits its prey, it observes carefully, it plans meticulously, it calculates everything, and it moves only when its desired outcome has been potentially secured.

So why wouldn't 4D "aliens" take over the Earth?

Look at it as a farm. The animals are kept in a prison since birth. Conditioned from childhood to know no other reality other than the life in the prison. Taught to respect and venerate and depend on figures of authority and religious effigies of salvation. To surrender their (free)wills/power to others. To accept and follow rules, dogma, protocols. They are programmed to go to school and church, to study and work—and work and work and work, following a repetitive pattern that is so ingraind in their brains to such an extent that they do not fully conceive of other realities (where the monetary system, politics and warfare do not exist, for example). They are conditioned from cradle to grave, by school, church, media and the entertainment industry (an excellent means of diversion, by the way).

If you can keep such a blinded and deluded planet under such an "illusion," then you have greatly succeded. There is no need to descend when the slave is unaware of its captivity. The best slave is, after all, is the one who believes himself to be free.

Therefore, negative entities would rather utilize their powers of influence and persuasion by mind, thought, light/illusion; than dropping by and saying, "surrender yourselves, this world belongs to us!"

I could only conceive of a mass landing as such in a planetary environment where the majority or totality of the 3D entities were negative potential graduates. Otherwise it is much more efficient to seek to divert and confound and blind the minds of the "sheeple" even further into confusion and separation. This is the greatest victory. To thwart and postpone as much as possible any positive harvest whilst subtly augmenting harvestabilty for those potential negatively-inclined graduates.

Otherwise, in a mixed-orientated (and highly lukewarm) sphere, it is far better for your hands to remain hidden and use puppets and pawns (many of whom are willing disciples and adepts in training) to carry out your agenda.

And... on the topic of freewill. Negative entities do, to certain extent, abide by the laws of freewill as well. The manipulation is not always as "forceful" and "violating" as one would seem to think. There are other factors in play. But that's for another topic.

[Plenum]

that's a great post Siren. Much appreciated.