3D to 4D: Sudden or Gradual? A great read...(David Wilcock interview)

[hogey11]

The more I think about gradual ascension the more it seems implausible. If we dont all ascend and go to our places, then we all have to die, every last one of us in a full extinction event, otherwise there will always be people on earth being born and living in 3D. Yet Ra says the earth will be a full 4D planet by 2011/2012.

Theres absolutely no point in there being a Harvest at that time unless one or the other happens/ Without a full extinction there will continue to be people on this 3D earth. Now if some say we will slowly turn into 4D beings, then what the heck is Harvest? There's no need for a Harvest and an end to a cycle if it keeps going, in fact that is not an end, that would be a continuing cycle...because its still going on. So its either the end or it isnt.

Sorry to be so dizzying but this is troubling me.


Maybe Im severely confused but these seem to be the only options.

If there are enough graduation-ready 3D entities, why would there need to be an extinction event? This is what Qu'o has said, in that there have been 4 billion people born on earth since the Law of One was given, and a huge number of them have been dual-activated (meaning graduated) and/or powerful wanderers. Ra was pretty downcast on our ability to pull ourselves out of the fire, but Ra would have had no clue that the earth's population would double in 30 years with a huge population of graduated entities. Ra knew some were coming, but not how many.

If the vibration of the 3D influence is great enough on earth, it would make sense that we can attain 4D without all the 'drama' of an extinction event. Think about it in terms of thought becoming reality as well. Those who react to the coming 4D world negatively (ungraduated 3D) will see their body react to their fears and anger even more so than now, one could argue. If that is the case, cancer and other catalyst-inspired diseases may take out the 3D population fairly quickly after harvest, purely due to their opposition to the new 4D sphere...

Just spitballing tho, I don't know for sure. Just thought i'd throw this out there

[unity100]

Ra was pretty downcast on our ability to pull ourselves out of the fire, but Ra would have had no clue that the earth's population would double in 30 years with a huge population of graduated entities. Ra knew some were coming, but not how many.

that's not correct. ra was and is able to review any possibility vortex in the world's future. like edgar cayce. and they spoke of these.

[hogey11]

Ra was pretty downcast on our ability to pull ourselves out of the fire, but Ra would have had no clue that the earth's population would double in 30 years with a huge population of graduated entities. Ra knew some were coming, but not how many.

that's not correct. ra was and is able to review any possibility vortex in the world's future. like edgar cayce. and they spoke of these.

I agree on a basic level, but I am referring more to the 'grocery store' analogy that Ra used to explain it. Ra knew of all the possible outcomes, but did not know exactly what we would choose in our own future...

I do remember Ra speaking about the higher number of 'great souls' tho, so you got me there

[unity100]

probabilities exist. yes, with 0.000000001% or some chance something may happen, but, the chances of it are not worth mentioning.

[kycahi]

And the thing about Wilcock, I see a lot of people ridicule him, put him down and criticize just about every thing the man says yet he seems to be one of the ones truly working his butt off to help us all understand what's going on, to disseminate information to the world (Much of it for absolute free on his website such as his 3 volume Convergence series and the LOO Study Guide) as well as putting his neck on the line to get information from places where otherwise wouldnt be possible.. I mostly see this in supposed Lightworker and "Light/Love" people forums and websites, extremely childish, ignorant and petty if you ask me, exactly the opposite I would expect from the crowd claiming to be enlightened or even semi enlightened and here to make the world a better place. Of course this is how it always is with people like DW, its jsut a shame that it comes from the very people who should be supporting his work and the work of all likeminded people. It makes me very sad and reminds me how much this ascension is needed.

Welcome to these forums, Tom.

Humans living in this third density do have a charming way of engaging their mouth (or keyboard) before putting their brain in gear. Some of the participants in the "enlightened" community are still collecting clues and reveal themselves as recta (is that the plural form?). Others have chosen the path of service to self and therefore deliberately sow seeds of doubt and judgement in order to encourage dissent. If you can forgive them all, you will score lots of points with your own higher self, believe it or not.

We are plunging into the new world of compassion, so bear with the folks who are disturbed by the changes they see all around.

[hogey11]

probabilities exist. yes, with 0.000000001% or some chance something may happen, but, the chances of it are not worth mentioning.

Are you saying Ra was completely aware of the exact number of entities that would come and knew of the exact vibration/graduation rate when harvest is bound to happen?

I think Ra is quite clear that they do not know the exact outcome. However, there are greater/lesser probabilities.... I just think things have gone better than Ra assumed at this point.

[native]

abridgetoofar made a good thread on this topic here http://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthrea...544&page=1

[unity100]

probabilities exist. yes, with 0.000000001% or some chance something may happen, but, the chances of it are not worth mentioning.

Are you saying Ra was completely aware of the exact number of entities that would come and knew of the exact vibration/graduation rate when harvest is bound to happen?

I think Ra is quite clear that they do not know the exact outcome. However, there are greater/lesser probabilities.... I just think things have gone better than Ra assumed at this point.

yes, they were aware of all potential outcomes. all the potential outcomes are in the past, and known.

infinite factors effecting on this experiential nexus may cause it to go in any of these, but, the route it would follow would most likely be the one it is most likely to follow, depending on the route it followed from its past.

[3DMonkey]

Ra was playing their part. They planted seeds. They've been planting seeds, just as ever other entity in infinity does.

The thoughts they/we water today create what is tomorrow.

Ra didn't give us truths. They gave us ideas/thoughts/seeds.

[Edinburgh]

I mostly see this in supposed Lightworker and "Light/Love" people forums and websites, extremely childish, ignorant and petty if you ask me, exactly the opposite I would expect from the crowd claiming to be enlightened or even semi enlightened and here to make the world a better place.

The bible, though a mixed source and corrupted in many ways, speaks of a catching up and it is done in the twinkling of an eye ... We also have the Butterfly-man crop formation, where just as a catterpillar morphing into a butterfly, in the same lifetime, we appear to metamorphose into a highly evolved being...again, which would be done in the same lifetime. There seem to be so many, too many signs speaking to this as a very rapid event, something extremely special, a gift to us who are here, whats the point of all the new learning concerning consciousness having the ability to lower crime, prevent and/or lessen cataclysms if the end result is that we all need to perish in order to transition?

I cant claim to know it all and these are just my thoughts, only time will tell but I just done see the gradualist theory making much sense. Should our bodies turn into light, that would very well fit the term "death" of the physical body as spoken by Ra, just as the catterpillar body dies.

You speak of thoughts that have been on my mind as well. However rest asssured, some of us are not petty. There are some really decent people here too.

I agree with you re. the butterfly man crop circle. Did you know it came out after Lipton published a book with the same cover image? Therefore, there are at least one set of extra-terrestrials that agree with the idea of a rapid change.

If you can forgive them all, you will score lots of points with your own higher self, believe it or not.

We are plunging into the new world of compassion, so bear with the folks who are disturbed by the changes they see all around.

Absolutely. Practicing forgiveness is a key.

[TomBombadil]

And the thing about Wilcock, I see a lot of people ridicule him, put him down and criticize just about every thing the man says yet he seems to be one of the ones truly working his butt off to help us all understand what's going on, to disseminate information to the world (Much of it for absolute free on his website such as his 3 volume Convergence series and the LOO Study Guide) as well as putting his neck on the line to get information from places where otherwise wouldnt be possible.. I mostly see this in supposed Lightworker and "Light/Love" people forums and websites, extremely childish, ignorant and petty if you ask me, exactly the opposite I would expect from the crowd claiming to be enlightened or even semi enlightened and here to make the world a better place. Of course this is how it always is with people like DW, its jsut a shame that it comes from the very people who should be supporting his work and the work of all likeminded people. It makes me very sad and reminds me how much this ascension is needed.

Welcome to these forums, Tom.

Humans living in this third density do have a charming way of engaging their mouth (or keyboard) before putting their brain in gear. Some of the participants in the "enlightened" community are still collecting clues and reveal themselves as recta (is that the plural form?). Others have chosen the path of service to self and therefore deliberately sow seeds of doubt and judgement in order to encourage dissent. If you can forgive them all, you will score lots of points with your own higher self, believe it or not.

We are plunging into the new world of compassion, so bear with the folks who are disturbed by the changes they see all around.

Thanks for the welcome. Yes, I was referring to some of the other forums I had looked over. I joined this one for the reason that I do not see the terrible behavior and although I practice forgiveness on a continual basis, I dont wish to waste my time with the drama of those other sites. Im pleased with what Ive seen here so far =)

Im not as well versed on the LOO as I should be since I am somewhat new to it but I am stuck on the idea that this harvest is absolutely different in all others in that the earth itself will be a fully 4D planet whereas in other times the harvests occurred while the earth stayed 3D. From what Ra says, this seems to be the final call and tells us that those in the astral planes will be harvested as well. I am going to go over the material for a few days and learn more, pray, meditate, contemplate and dream to see what I can come up with.

I seem to be missing a post, perhaps I didnt push it all the way through, but thats ok, I would rather do more study and bring it up then. However I will mention that Ra put out the year 2011 in several places and not 2011-2021, or 2011-2050, etc. What sticks out to me is that there is the end to the major cycle, it is given a time period, we are told the earth will be graduated to 4D, we are told that all will be harvested regardless, Ra tells us there was a crunch for those in need of a final 3D incarnation who were given seniority and mentions that Patton incarnated IMMEDIATELY after the war in order to become Harvestable, and on the references go in favor of the idea that what is happening is quick and final and from what I remember, Ra says those in need of more 3D experience will be taken to the astrall planes for a period of 100-700 years and then taken to A DIFFERENT 3D PLANET, not earth, because earth will no longer host 3D life. One can entertain the gradualist theory if this earth continued to host 3D life but how does one entertain gradually moving from earth to another planet during this harvest?

Well, I see I am in good company here, it is good to see so many putting thought into this, after all our spiritual life and topics such as this are what we are truly supposed to be focused on, as well as walking in light and love and in communion with the Creator. I am chomping at the bit to live in a world where the spiritual life is given priority and learning about the Creator, our universe and our souls are the norm. So many of us, I believe, are simply consumed with this because our souls are rejoicing in what is to come.

Cheers.

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Questioner: Am I to understand that the harvest is to occur in the year 2011, or will it be spread out?

Ra: I am Ra. This is an approximation. We have stated we have difficulty with your time/space. This is an appropriate probable/possible time/space nexus for harvest. Those who are not in incarnation at this time will be included in the harvest.

[Nyu]

It is lovely to see you here Tom!! I'm new to this forum also, and I joined it for the same reason - that people here seem full of positivity and are genuinely attempting to evolve themselves and to help others also. I do not see the ridicule and negativity here that I see elsewhere on the internet.

I am a little scared about the changes that will bring about the harvest (as I'm not sure if it will involve us being able to live out the rest of our natural lives or not) but am also rejoicing in the thought that we might reach a point/place in time soon where we are all finally moving towards the creator. So it is a mixture of excitement and apprehension for me.

Adonai.

[unity100]

there is no change that will bring harvest. harvest comes at the striking of the clock regardless of the situation on a planet, unless it is destroyed.

the harvest, and transition from 3d bodies to 4d bodies on this planet by gradual reproduction are two different things.

[TomBombadil]

there is no change that will bring harvest. harvest comes at the striking of the clock regardless of the situation on a planet, unless it is destroyed.

the harvest, and transition from 3d bodies to 4d bodies on this planet by gradual reproduction are two different things.

OK, where does this gradual process happen since earth will become a total 4D planet at the time of harvest and 3D bodies are incompatible?

Isnt this why Ra said that those who remain in 3D are taken to a different 3 D planet? They are to continue learning there, not here. So also, why go elsewhere if this planet can host those in 3D?

So even then, there will have to be a point where all in 3D are transferred to that other planet.

Here's a doozy; Ra explained that it will take those 100-700 years for 4D entities to learn to hide themselves from 3Ds, so they can not be on this planet together for that period of time. So for 100-700 years after harvest 3D and 4D are separated. Now if 4Ds are here on this planet, where are the 3Ds? In the astral realms, as Ra said, since they can not co exist together. Why Astral realms and not immediate transfer to the other planet? Because Harvest is immediate it would seem.

If Im incorrect in any of this, please, Im all ears...eyes =)

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It is lovely to see you here Tom!! I'm new to this forum also, and I joined it for the same reason - that people here seem full of positivity and are genuinely attempting to evolve themselves and to help others also. I do not see the ridicule and negativity here that I see elsewhere on the internet.

I am a little scared about the changes that will bring about the harvest (as I'm not sure if it will involve us being able to live out the rest of our natural lives or not) but am also rejoicing in the thought that we might reach a point/place in time soon where we are all finally moving towards the creator. So it is a mixture of excitement and apprehension for me.

Adonai.

Likewise, Im glad people like you are coming here as well.

I feel the same way, only the fear has mostly dissipated now that I have found the LOO material, the Seth material and my other spiritual teachings I am now studying. I feel I have crossed a certain barrier, I truly hope its the barrier I think it is =)

Peace be with you!

[TomBombadil]

6.15 Questioner: What is the length, in our years, of one of these cycles?

Ra: One major cycle is approximately 25,000 of your years. There are three cycles of this nature during which those who have progressed may be harvested at the end of three major cycles. That is, approximately between 75 and 76,000 of your years. All are harvested regardless of their progress, for during that time the planet itself has moved through the useful part of that dimension and begins to cease being useful for the lower levels of vibration within that density.

6.16 Questioner: What is the position of this planet with respect to the progression of cycles at this time?

Ra: I am Ra. This sphere is at this time in fourth-dimension vibration. Its material is quite confused due to the society memory complexes embedded in its consciousness. It has not made an easy transition to the vibrations which beckon. Therefore, it will be fetched with some inconvenience.

6.17 Questioner: Is this inconvenience imminent within a few years?

Ra: I am Ra. This inconvenience, or disharmonious vibratory complex, has begun several of your years in the past. It shall continue unabated for a period of approximately 30, thirty, of your years.

6.18 Questioner: After this period of thirty years I am assuming that this will be a fourth-density planet. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is so.

Sorry to be redundant, however this portion of material clarifies much of what weve been speaking of, that after 30 years from 1981 this planet will be 4D and no longer hospitable for 3D life. This "inconvenience" of having 3D and 4D entities was only to last until the time of harvest (2011-2012). People are saying that AFTER the harvest there will be this whole 3D + 4D existence going on but here Ra says this is already what is occuring.

13.22 Questioner: What is the density level of our planet Earth at this time?

Ra: I am Ra. The sphere upon which you dwell is third density in its beingness of mind/body/spirit complexes. It is now in a space/time continuum, fourth density. This is causing a somewhat difficult harvest.

16.12 Questioner: Then as we enter the fourth density there will be a split, shall we say, and part of the individuals who go into the fourth density will go into planets or places where there is service to others and part will go into places where there is service to self.

Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct.

It seems that Ra is explaining that we are in the process of harvest already, in the next section I am pasting, Ra explains that it has been occurring since 1936 (1981 -45 years)

62.28 Questioner: Then as the fourth-density vibrations come in this means that the planet can support entities of fourth-density core vibration. Will the planet then still be first-density core vibration and will there be second-density entities on it with second-density vibrations, and will there be third-density entities on it with third-density vibrations?

Ra: I am Ra. This will be the last full query of this working. There is energy but the distortions of the instrument suggest to us it would be well to shorten this working with your permission.

62.29 Questioner: Yes.

Ra: You must see the Earth, as you call it, as being seven Earths. There is red, orange, yellow, and there will soon be a completed green color vibratory locus for fourth-density entities which they will call Earth. During the fourth-density experience, due to the lack of development of fourth-density entities, the third-density planetary sphere is not useful for habitation since the early fourth-density entity will not know precisely how to maintain the illusion that fourth-density cannot be seen or determined from any instrumentation available to any third-density.

Thus in fourth-density the red, orange, and green energy nexi of your planet will be activated while the yellow is in potentiation along with the blue and the indigo.

May we ask at this time if there be any brief queries?

63.8 Questioner: I would like to continue with the questions about the fact that in fourth-density the red, orange, and green energies will be activated; yellow, blue, etc. being in potentiation. Right now, we have green energies activated. They have been activated for the last 45 years. I am wondering about the transition through this period so that the green is totally activated and the yellow is in potentiation. What will we lose as the yellow goes from activation into potentiation, and what will we gain as green comes into total activation, and what is the process?

Ra: I am Ra. It is misleading to speak of gains and losses when dealing with the subject of the cycle’s ending and the green-ray cycle beginning upon your sphere. It is to be kept in the forefront of the faculties of intelligence that there is one creation in which there is no loss. There are progressive cycles for experiential use by entities. We may now address your query.

As the green-ray cycle or the density of love and understanding begins to take shape the yellow-ray plane or Earth which you now enjoy in your dance will cease to be inhabited for some period of your space/time as the space/time necessary for fourth-density entities to learn their ability to shield their density from that of third is learned. After this period there will come a time when third-density may again cycle on the yellow-ray sphere.

So as we have been undergoing the process of changing from yellow ray which Ra explains as being 3rd density to green ray which is 4th density, we have experienced these inconveniences and all the earth changes which Ra explains as being peculiar to this harvest due to myriad reasons.

Many of us are experiencing the change from yellow ray activation to green ray activation and I believe this is exactly what is spoken of when people talk about these energies coming in and feeling, experiencing so many different changes within themselves, the bodies are becoming acclimated to the green ray.

I would love to give more commentary on this however it was not my point to sit here and pretend to be a teacher of the Law of One, I have added some of my opinions and a few conclusions but it is more for you all to look at and decide what you think and discuss it with me and the others. Its not an exhaustive listing but I believe there are some great nuggets contained within. Im not really trying to prove a point, only to learn. If I am wrong then I am wrong, it wont be the first time.

There are definitely things that confuse me, but Ra seems to do that to many =) This is such an amazing topic and I feel extemely fortunate to be here and experiencing, learning and sharing. Wouldnt it be something to wake up in 4th density earth sometime this year? I can honestly say theres nothing I want more than to live in 4D with all of you, my soul is screaming inside of me to do so and I am in fact close to tears as I write this. And with that I bid you all a fond farewell, until the next time.

Cheers.

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PS

Guys, something strange is happening every time I reference the Law of One, every time I wrote it with a capital L small o and large O together, after I post it becomes all caps. Also, in the last message I left the statement "Law of One" in all lower case and after posting the L and O were capitalized. I specifically remember seeing that I hadnt capped the L and O but out of weariness of writing decided to leave it, lo and behold it changed. This is very odd.

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It did it again......lol

[3DMonkey]

The forum has some auto features.

....
From all the Ra quotes, it is very open that harvest is not an event but a process. The tick of the "clock" could be an eighty year "tick", and it could be a personal entity's time table tick. Ra says harvest is "occurring" in 2011, not finished. If we do assume it means completed, then it could just mean that in 2012, 2013 would be easier for discussion, nobody incarnated is of 3D fully. This leaves us all Wanderers or Fourth density non incarnate or dual activated incarnated. Then there is an evolutionary period that creates a 4D physical vehicle. Once this vehicle takes shape, it will be one that has "learned" how to be fully 4D activated and able to shield itself from 3D. At that point, all the 4D not incarnate can begin incarnating, and if there is a need for it, the yellow Ray sphere can be used for new 3D cycles.

So, we still have a long way to go, and many generations to come. (It would be nice to be of 6D and speak of 100,000 years as if it were a two hour movie )

[unity100]

there is no change that will bring harvest. harvest comes at the striking of the clock regardless of the situation on a planet, unless it is destroyed.

the harvest, and transition from 3d bodies to 4d bodies on this planet by gradual reproduction are two different things.

OK, where does this gradual process happen since earth will become a total 4D planet at the time of harvest and 3D bodies are incompatible?

Isnt this why Ra said that those who remain in 3D are taken to a different 3 D planet? They are to continue learning there, not here. So also, why go elsewhere if this planet can host those in 3D?

So even then, there will have to be a point where all in 3D are transferred to that other planet.

Here's a doozy; Ra explained that it will take those 100-700 years for 4D entities to learn to hide themselves from 3Ds, so they can not be on this planet together for that period of time. So for 100-700 years after harvest 3D and 4D are separated. Now if 4Ds are here on this planet, where are the 3Ds? In the astral realms, as Ra said, since they can not co exist together. Why Astral realms and not immediate transfer to the other planet? Because Harvest is immediate it would seem.

if you just take that the entities harvested (and actually needs harvesting) are only 3d entities, and, the entities that are incarnating in 3-4d transitionary bodies are ones that have come to this planet for 4d work or wanderers (meaning only those who are harvested, or, are way past the harvest point), then the transition makes sense :

- the 3-4d transitionary bodies are the bodies which will produce 4d bodies through normal reproduction.
- 3-4d transitionary bodies are not unable to function while facing 4d. it is possible that they may not be able to face full 4d, yet, since Ra says that these bodies are able to 'appreciate' 4d streamings, this means these bodies are at least capable of surviving in an early 4d vibration.
- 3d entities get harvested. they go to 4d, or other planets.
- 3-4d entities and wanderers stay or go. wanderers may go, and they actually probably have to go, since otherwise they may infringe upon the new 4d society's free will.
- 4d vibrations come, 3d entities go, 3-4d bodies reproduce the 4d bodies through gradual process during which they will also start to create the physical 4d sphere in vibrations (purely as opposed to mixed with 3d), 4d entities learn to hide themselves from 3d in this duration, everyone is happy.

Guys, something strange is happening every time I reference the Law of One, every time I wrote it with a capital L small o and large O together, after I post it becomes all caps. Also, in the last message I left the statement "Law of One" in all lower case and after posting the L and O were capitalized. I specifically remember seeing that I hadnt capped the L and O but out of weariness of writing decided to leave it, lo and behold it changed. This is very odd.

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It did it again......lol

forum script is reformatting certain words.

[Monica]

if you just take that the entities harvested (and actually needs harvesting) are only 3d entities, and, the entities that are incarnating in 3-4d transitionary bodies are ones that have come to this planet for 4d work or wanderers (meaning only those who are harvested, or, are way past the harvest point), then the transition makes sense :

- the 3-4d transitionary bodies are the bodies which will produce 4d bodies through normal reproduction.
- 3-4d transitionary bodies are not unable to function while facing 4d. it is possible that they may not be able to face full 4d, yet, since Ra says that these bodies are able to 'appreciate' 4d streamings, this means these bodies are at least capable of surviving in an early 4d vibration.
- 3d entities get harvested. they go to 4d, or other planets.
- 3-4d entities and wanderers stay or go. wanderers may go, and they actually probably have to go, since otherwise they may infringe upon the new 4d society's free will.
- 4d vibrations come, 3d entities go, 3-4d bodies reproduce the 4d bodies through gradual process during which they will also start to create the physical 4d sphere in vibrations (purely as opposed to mixed with 3d), 4d entities learn to hide themselves from 3d in this duration, everyone is happy.

Ya know, that is the best explanation I have seen! That takes into consideration all available data and integrates it, instead of leaving out certain points as other scenarios do. The missing piece you just factored into the equation was that not all humans will have the same experience during the Harvest, because not all need to be harvested. duh. So simple, so obvious...the answer had been eluding us all this time, and you just nailed it! This is an aha! moment! Resolution of apparent paradox indeed.

[3DMonkey]

Monica, I have read many posts that explain that same thing. The only thing new here is that Unity100 is conceding to that view.

[Raman]

if you just take that the entities harvested (and actually needs harvesting) are only 3d entities, and, the entities that are incarnating in 3-4d transitionary bodies are ones that have come to this planet for 4d work or wanderers (meaning only those who are harvested, or, are way past the harvest point), then the transition makes sense :

- the 3-4d transitionary bodies are the bodies which will produce 4d bodies through normal reproduction.
- 3-4d transitionary bodies are not unable to function while facing 4d. it is possible that they may not be able to face full 4d, yet, since Ra says that these bodies are able to 'appreciate' 4d streamings, this means these bodies are at least capable of surviving in an early 4d vibration.
- 3d entities get harvested. they go to 4d, or other planets.
- 3-4d entities and wanderers stay or go. wanderers may go, and they actually probably have to go, since otherwise they may infringe upon the new 4d society's free will.
- 4d vibrations come, 3d entities go, 3-4d bodies reproduce the 4d bodies through gradual process during which they will also start to create the physical 4d sphere in vibrations (purely as opposed to mixed with 3d), 4d entities learn to hide themselves from 3d in this duration, everyone is happy.

Ya know, that is the best explanation I have seen! That takes into consideration all available data and integrates it, instead of leaving out certain points as other scenarios do. The missing piece you just factored into the equation was that not all humans will have the same experience during the Harvest, because not all need to be harvested. duh. So simple, so obvious...the answer had been eluding us all this time, and you just nailed it! This is an aha! moment! Resolution of apparent paradox indeed.

This is excellent. I suppose many dual bodies would be confused and will need some guidance...however...seeing how the spontaneous organization in the latest movements occurred...especially what happened in Spain this month: spontaneous organization...no need for money...etc as Kia mentioned...it is going to be easier than we think...

Then...just to let the imagination run...I am thinking of a type of "super solar flares"?
Kinda had a weird feeling of almost deja vu when this came to mind...

Any kind of estimate as for how many dual activated entities are present nowadays?...

[Monica]

Monica, I have read many posts that explain that same thing.

Really? I must have missed them! Can you point them out to me? I'd like to read more, as this was truly an aha! moment for me.

[3DMonkey]

There are long threads that describe this. My post just before unity's is basically the same thing.

[Monica]

There are long threads that describe this.

If you happen to remember which ones they are, I would appreciate knowing!

My post just before unity's is basically the same thing.

I didn't mean to slight you, 3DM. I read your post first but didn't understand it in the same way.

[3DMonkey]

Aha moments are great, Monica. Let's just focus on that. The thought of reading through old discussions on th topic gives me immediate tired-head, lol, like a hypnotized zombie .

So, did you not think transition into 4D would be as unique as your current experience today?

[zenmaster]

if you just take that the entities harvested (and actually needs harvesting) are only 3d entities

What about the situation of possible 'karma' accruence for any entity, regardless of native density, which could mean harvest 'stairstepping' for all after death. I'd imagine 6th could go to 3rd, 4th, 5th, or back to 6th.

OK, where does this gradual process happen since earth will become a total 4D planet at the time of harvest and 3D bodies are incompatible?

Wherever did you get the idea that the earth will become a total 4d planet at harvest? To me, "total 4d planet" means nothing less than "full activation". And since we're told that the "birthing that takes place will have been transformed through the process of time, shall we say, to the appropriate type of vehicle to appreciate in full the fourth-density planetary environment. " It's rather obvious to me that it will take generations to have the appropriate type of vehicle to appreciate the full 4th density environment (transitional to 4d). The transition itself is what, 100-700 years?

[native]

Tom..read the following thread. In it are all the quotes of Ra and Q'uo about dual bodies http://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthrea...544&page=1

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We always approach this mystery as if the 4d Earth experience is already formed and waiting. Physically the 4d Earth seems to be there, but the reality of experience is probably formed more and more as the transition takes place, and the social complex works with the process to create and hold together the reality it finds itself in. Think of each transitional body as holding a stronger 4th density charge, as more bodies are added to the planet the nature of the charge grows and changes to 4d.

4d sounds like it involves a shift in perception and being able to form it as a collective.

[TomBombadil]

The forum has some auto features.

Haha, I thought I was going crazy!! Thats funny. With all the wierd things that have been happening to me, I just figured it was one more...

[zenmaster]

4d sounds like it involves a shift in perception and being able to form it as a collective.

I'm leaning towards the notion that the shift in perception involves seeing more clearly the noumenal underpinnings of reality vs that of the phenomenal. Indeed, it seems that 4d 'matter' is of this noumenal nature, which corresponds to the realm of ideas. Increased clarity means increased utility, so more and more formative.

[TomBombadil]

there is no change that will bring harvest. harvest comes at the striking of the clock regardless of the situation on a planet, unless it is destroyed.

the harvest, and transition from 3d bodies to 4d bodies on this planet by gradual reproduction are two different things.

OK, where does this gradual process happen since earth will become a total 4D planet at the time of harvest and 3D bodies are incompatible?

Isnt this why Ra said that those who remain in 3D are taken to a different 3 D planet? They are to continue learning there, not here. So also, why go elsewhere if this planet can host those in 3D?

So even then, there will have to be a point where all in 3D are transferred to that other planet.

Here's a doozy; Ra explained that it will take those 100-700 years for 4D entities to learn to hide themselves from 3Ds, so they can not be on this planet together for that period of time. So for 100-700 years after harvest 3D and 4D are separated. Now if 4Ds are here on this planet, where are the 3Ds? In the astral realms, as Ra said, since they can not co exist together. Why Astral realms and not immediate transfer to the other planet? Because Harvest is immediate it would seem.

if you just take that the entities harvested (and actually needs harvesting) are only 3d entities, and, the entities that are incarnating in 3-4d transitionary bodies are ones that have come to this planet for 4d work or wanderers (meaning only those who are harvested, or, are way past the harvest point), then the transition makes sense :

- the 3-4d transitionary bodies are the bodies which will produce 4d bodies through normal reproduction.
- 3-4d transitionary bodies are not unable to function while facing 4d. it is possible that they may not be able to face full 4d, yet, since Ra says that these bodies are able to 'appreciate' 4d streamings, this means these bodies are at least capable of surviving in an early 4d vibration.
- 3d entities get harvested. they go to 4d, or other planets.
- 3-4d entities and wanderers stay or go. wanderers may go, and they actually probably have to go, since otherwise they may infringe upon the new 4d society's free will.
- 4d vibrations come, 3d entities go, 3-4d bodies reproduce the 4d bodies through gradual process during which they will also start to create the physical 4d sphere in vibrations (purely as opposed to mixed with 3d), 4d entities learn to hide themselves from 3d in this duration, everyone is happy.

Guys, something strange is happening every time I reference the Law of One, every time I wrote it with a capital L small o and large O together, after I post it becomes all caps. Also, in the last message I left the statement "Law of One" in all lower case and after posting the L and O were capitalized. I specifically remember seeing that I hadnt capped the L and O but out of weariness of writing decided to leave it, lo and behold it changed. This is very odd.

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It did it again......lol

forum script is reformatting certain words.

Sorry but Im having a difficult time fully understanding your meaning since many of these concepts are new to me so please bear with me.


Could you possibly break that down again for a beginner? I sense what you mean in certain points but not fully grasping it.

And heres a couple questions you may be able to answer or partly answer; Say I am a wanderer, would I be liberated from 3D upon full activation of the Green Ray? And what is the actual purpose of the 2011/2012 date? Why did changes begin in 1936...only to begin again in 2011/2012? Whats the point?

I will be reading through the LOO over the next few days as well as looking over the study guide, hopefully by then I will be better able to grasp so I apologize for putting you to work due to my ignorance but it will be sincerely appreciated.

[unity100]

if you just take that the entities harvested (and actually needs harvesting) are only 3d entities

What about the situation of possible 'karma' accruence for any entity, regardless of native density, which could mean harvest 'stairstepping' for all after death. I'd imagine 6th could go to 3rd, 4th, 5th, or back to 6th.

such entanglement would probably reduce vibrations of the entity, and this would be the cause of the entity manifesting as if a 3d entity. vibration/advancement loss was not discussed in the material, so whether an entity could have gotten reduced to 4, 5d etc is a debate itself.

Could you possibly break that down again for a beginner? I sense what you mean in certain points but not fully grasping it.

you should ask whatever specifics you need to ask then. its too broad to just explain.

And heres a couple questions you may be able to answer or partly answer; Say I am a wanderer, would I be liberated from 3D upon full activation of the Green Ray? And what is the actual purpose of the 2011/2012 date? Why did changes begin in 1936...only to begin again in 2011/2012? Whats the point?

if you are incarnated, i dont think you would be liberated from the conditions that the sphere you are in has. full activation of green ray, would allow you much cozier environment spiritually, provided that the location you are at wherever you are has vibrations high enough. this sphere is the sphere you live in - ie you are living in yellow sphere, if the vibrations of the people that make up the society you are in at that locale is yellow. so, it would be a question of the provided sphere. most of the society is somewhat orange in vibration i believe. if you go to a place that has people vibrating in green, then the sphere you are in would come up to be green.

the normal vibration of the planet would be green however, whether you experience this or not, would depend on the synchronicity of the environment (society etc, in local fashion) you live in with this vibration. say, the society in your locale is heavily orange tinted. these would reduce vibrations of the environment to lower than green. get out of your society towards a higher vibration geography (with or without people), you would move into green.

actual purpose of 2011 date seems to be the date of the 3d harvest. there is a lot of doom meaning loaded into them, but its mainly a mis-date of 2012.

for some reason, developments before/around 1936 seems to have put the planet in a positive time/space continuum. or this is what Ra says.

I will be reading through the LOO over the next few days as well as looking over the study guide, hopefully by then I will be better able to grasp so I apologize for putting you to work due to my ignorance but it will be sincerely appreciated.

you shouldnt look at any study guides etc while reading Ra material. especially for the first time. a 'study guide' contains the biases and perceptions of the entity who wrote it, regardless of who s/he is.

you should find a calm, silent place in which you wont be disturbed by anyone, and then read the material in physical form (maybe getting books or downloading the free pdfs and printing them) by yourself.