In regards to eating meat

[Confused]

Animal products could mean milk, cheese or eggs.

It is true that Ra does not directly approve meat. And I definitely am not supporting or discrediting any choice of diet of humans, as we know it on our earth, in general terms. But Ra was very neutral too, I think --

102.16 Questioner: Could Ra please state which foods are highly probable to not cause the spasming?

Ra: I am Ra. The liquids not containing carbonation, the well-cooked vegetable which is most light and soft, the well-cooked grains, the non-fatted meat such as the fish. You may note that some recommended foodstuffs overlap allergies and sensitivities due to the juvenile rheumatoid arthritic distortions. Further, although sugar such as is in your sweetened desserts represents a potential, we may suggest that it be included at this period for aforementioned reasons.

[Monica]

But Ra was very neutral too, I think --

102.16 Questioner: Could Ra please state which foods are highly probable to not cause the spasming?

Ra: I am Ra. The liquids not containing carbonation, the well-cooked vegetable which is most light and soft, the well-cooked grains, the non-fatted meat such as the fish. You may note that some recommended foodstuffs overlap allergies and sensitivities due to the juvenile rheumatoid arthritic distortions. Further, although sugar such as is in your sweetened desserts represents a potential, we may suggest that it be included at this period for aforementioned reasons.

I disagree. This quote is about something very specific: which foods cause spasming in one particular individual, Carla.

This says nothing about whether those foods are recommended for other entities, or even whether they are optimal for Carla.

It says only whether they cause spasming or not.

The question was very specific, and the answer very specific.

The first quote, 40.14, was a much more generalized question and thus more pertinent to the question of should humans in general eat meat.


(Note: Previous post has been edited.)

[Confused]

The question was very specific, and the answer very specific.

Yup, that is true and very obvious there in the exchange. It cannot be argued against

[Raman]

I don't like milk but eggs and cheese should be ok...there are so many different varieties of cheese...Organic and free range eggs where the chickens are treated well makes a big difference.

[Monica]

I don't like milk but eggs and cheese should be ok...there are so many different varieties of cheese...Organic and free range eggs where the chickens are treated well makes a big difference.

Agreed! Provided the chickens are allowed to roam freely, the eggs can be a healthy, cruelty-free source of protein, filling in the gaps for those who feel they need animal protein, without killing any entities and without cruelty.

Milk and cheese products are a bit trickier. 'Organic' just means no hormones added, which means it's healthier, but doesn't necessarily mean the cows were treated any better.

Getting raw cheese and milk products from a local farmer who treats his cows well, would be optimal.

[Bring4th_Austin]

Getting raw cheese and milk products from a local farmer who treats his cows well, would be optimal.

Unfortunately, raw milk is illegal in some places (like here). You must buy "pet milk," and if the farmer is caught selling raw milk knowingly for human consumption they could get in a lot of trouble!

[Monica]

Unfortunately, raw milk is illegal in some places (like here). You must buy "pet milk," and if the farmer is caught selling raw milk knowingly for human consumption they could get in a lot of trouble!

Yeah, that is unfortunate.

[Bring4th_Austin]

Our government will let us smoke cancer sticks but not drink raw milk.

[BrownEye]

Now that is quite an intriguing and cryptic statement. Can you elaborate more, Monica? What exactly was the truth of it, as you realized it from the reading of the Essene gospel and other material?

Death begets death. Life begets Life.

I think we rely on light and correct experience. It has been shown that we take in light/life through plant life, most likely because it is alive when injested. Sounds scary lol. Much of the nutrients we get in meat are simply because the meat ate our food first. Just like b12 coming from feces, much easier for us to eat what ate the feces than to imagine eating feces ourself. BTW you can get a lot of b12 from Walmart shopping cart handles.

LoL I know we used to get our b12 from unwashed veggies grown in manure fertilized soil.

[Monica]

Our government will let us smoke cancer sticks but not drink raw milk.

Yeah it's absurd.

But remember, they make lots of $$ from treating lung cancer.

'They' being the drug companies, who are in bed with the FDA.

Are you in the US?

[3DMonkey]

I have been reading this from Q'uo, and since this thread is bringing up childhood, in a sense, I thought I would post this. I'm not trying to use it to make any point. Only, that I'm moved to do it.

http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/is..._0712.aspx

These fears that motivate from the depths of one’s being have power only because they are distortions of the power of love. When you are able to untangle the distortion of love, then you shall see how this distortion was first caused. The cause is almost always within the early portion of this life experience in accordance with choices that were made before this life experience regarding that which one wished to learn.

[Meerie]

Personally I have great difficulties to change to vegan diet. I know I can do it with great transitional time but at the moment after a year I still have 2-3 meat days a week.

After a year? are you really sure this will be working for you at all?
think about it. I just believe there is no "one diet benefits all".
We are all different so why should it be any different when it comes to foods?
I see this thread has gone peaceful yesterday and am all glad about it. What I originally meant to say is that sometimes vegetarian argumentation comes across as if there is only one way to go. The vegetarian way. Almost as if there should be no free will on the subject.
Ultimately this is a choice each has to make for himself. Each decides for himself and each lives with the consequences of his choice.
The question is:
can we still love and accept another even if their choices may be diametrically opposed to ours.
can we refrain from labelling someone STS just because we disagree?
Can we try to be non judmental?
Can we try to not dismiss a Q'uo channeling as "tainted" and influenced by the meat-eating entity who channeled, just because it does not support vegetarianism as exclusively as we think it should?
Remember: we are all behind the veil. We are all distorted. No one has the whole truth, each has a fragment of it.

[Confused]

we are all behind the veil. We are all distorted. No one has the whole truth, each has a fragment of it.

That quote from Meerie should go into the b4th "hall of great quotes" :heart: :) :cool:

[BrownEye]

Can we try to not dismiss a Q'uo channeling as "tainted" and influenced by the meat-eating entity who channeled, just because it does not support vegetarianism as exclusively as we think it should?

You are aware that channeled material is not 100% accurate? Book 5 being as low as 81%? So, you have to ask yourself just what is that 19% saying anyways?

The vegetarian way. Almost as if there should be no free will on the subject.

If you happened to get stranded on a cannibalistic portion of the planet I think you just might suddenly wish you were surrounded by vegetarians. Because suddenly your life will mean something. Too bad we think animals have no life, or at the very least, no free will.

I just believe there is no "one diet benefits all".

That's true, there are body types that have slightly differing needs. It still doesn't extend to killing outside of need/geographic location. Killing just because you can still makes you a killer. Hunting for sustenance because there is no vegetation in the locale is survival, and possibly the only way to perpetuate your DNA.

Killing is a luxury to us, easy to see when we spend more money on feeding the animals than we do feeding the people. The amount of feed going into the cow would feed us better than the cow by itself. We kill to eat because we can, not because we need to.

The issue is not to save a person from their own personal choices in stupidity, but rather to simply stop them from advancing the mass killing/suffering agenda. The benefit of suffering/catalyst/choice does not work for the animal kingdom.

[Monica]

After a year? are you really sure this will be working for you at all?

My first thought when I read about Joe eating meat only 2-3 times per week was: "Cool!!! That's really awesome!"

rather than, "OMG you're eating still eating meat 2-3 times per week!"

Any reduction in meat is to be commended, in my opinion, because it is helping to reduce animal suffering, is better for one's health, and shows a desire and commitment to improve one's diet and possibly spirituality (if it's spiritually motivated, which isn't true for all vegetarians).

It's not an all-or-nothing thing. I personally embrace any efforts in the direction of healing the planet by working towards a non-violent diet.

My best friend of 30 years, and my husband of 27 years, both took nearly all that time to go 100% vegetarian!

My friend, ironically, is the one who gave me 1 of the 2 books that provided the catalyst for my going veg: Survival in the 21st Century. My friend read it and was so blown away, she bought 10 copies and gave them as Christmas gifts to all her friends! We had a little 'New Age Awareness Center' where we meditated for world peace once a week. I remember very well, when she handed out the gifts. She was so excited! She said she had discovered the answers to the diet issue. I still have my highlighted, dog-eared copy that she gave me, with her inscription "Merry Christmas Monica, 1982, Love Sandy."

Well, guess what? Sandy tried to follow that diet and couldn't pull it off. I tried too and couldn't pull it off. Why? Well because we went from typical SAD (Standard American Diet) of meat and junk, to sprouts and wheatgrass.

The shift was too drastic!

She elected to go back to eating meat, and in fact told me that she craved it and couldn't be without it, despite her desire to be a vegetarian. I settled on a middle-of-the-road vegetarian, mostly vegan, with only occasional cheese and eggs, diet.

She tried several times, throughout the years, and kept going back and forth. Finally, a couple of years ago, she had a major spiritual awakening, and after that could not stomach the thought of eating animals. This is the person who worked in the grocery store deli and nearly had a nervous breakdown in the meat freezer, because she perceived it as a morgue with body parts.

She has been 100% veg for a couple of years now, with no turning back. We remained best friends throughout, by the way. Diet never came between us.

My husband had been 95% vegetarian for the first 27 years we were together. He would sometimes go 6 months without any meat, and then he would go thru phases wherein he would eat fish (usually shrimp, which he was partial to) about once a week, socially. We never had any meat in the house, which was just as much his wish as it was mine.

About a year ago, he made the decision, quite on his own, to make the commitment to 100% vegetarian.

These are the 2 people I love the most in the world, along with my son of course. I loved and accepted them, veg or not. Both of them stayed in the 'transitional' phase a very long time, but the goal was always in view. The goal was always a given.

The question is:
can we still love and accept another even if their choices may be diametrically opposed to ours.

Absolutely! We can love and accept others, even if we disagree with their choices.

can we refrain from labelling someone STS just because we disagree?

I haven't seen anyone label anyone STS for eating meat, here on this thread.

Can we try to be non judmental?

This is a tricky one. Often, a person feels judged simply because the other person disagrees. No judgment was intended. For example, it has happened to me many times in which I'd be at a restaurant and order vegetarian food, and not say a single word to my friends about what they were eating, and they started getting defensive, as though I have judged them.

Recently, someone told me they felt guilty for eating meat, and then felt judged by me when they found out I didn't eat meat.

In both of these cases, I did nothing to judge them. I was simply being who I am. I was accepting them, even though I choose not to accept their choice for myself.

I would invite them to ask themselves why they are feeling guilty or judged! Perhaps it has nothing to do with me, but with their own guidance which they may or may not be heeding. It's convenient to say I am judging them, when, in reality, they were feeling guilty without me saying a word.

Can we try to not dismiss a Q'uo channeling as "tainted" and influenced by the meat-eating entity who channeled, just because it does not support vegetarianism as exclusively as we think it should?

If the channeling session is indeed being dismissed just because we disagree with it, then I would agree with you.

On the other hand, it is also a valid viewpoint that the channeling may indeed have had some degree of distortion. This has nothing to do with personal opinion necessarily, but is a reality when the topic has a strong emotional charge. In other words, it's common for channelings to become distorted when the channel has strong feelings on the subject. Carla would be the first to admit that, although she is very careful to stay tuned to the highest frequency, she is not 100% immune to distortion.

It is my personal opinion that that particular session had more distortion than normal, due to the personal nature of the subject. I stand by that assertion and it's not because the view disagrees with my own.

In fact, I feel the same way about another session, in which the view actually agrees with my own, but I think it's slightly distorted.

Remember: we are all behind the veil. We are all distorted. No one has the whole truth, each has a fragment of it.

Agreed! Well said!

---

sometimes vegetarian argumentation comes across as if there is only one way to go. The vegetarian way. Almost as if there should be no free will on the subject.

I invite the meat eaters to try to understand how vegetarians feel about this. We feel the same about animal suffering, as we do about human suffering. Should humans have the freedom to inflict suffering on other humans?

One person's freedom ends where another's begins.

We all have free will. Humans hurt other humans all the time. But we cannot say that they have the right to do that. They have the free will to do that, but not the right.

Humans have the free will to eat animals, just as they have the free will to hurt other humans. That is a fact and cannot be disputed.

Whether they have the right to do that, is another issue.

Quite simply, it is asking too much to expect a vegetarian to say, "Go ahead and cause suffering to the animals. Go ahead and slaughter them. It's your choice."

That is asking too much.

[BrownEye]

I find all of this to be related.

9.13 Questioner: Then there were second-density entities here prior to approximately 75,000 years ago. What type of entities were these?

Ra: I am Ra. The second density is the density of the higher plant life and animal life which exists without the upward drive towards the infinite. These second-density beings are of an octave of consciousness just as you find various orientations of consciousness among the conscious entities of your vibration.

19.2 Questioner: Let’s take the point at which an individualized entity of second density is ready for transition to third. Is this second-density being what we would call animal?

Ra: I am Ra. There are three types of second-density entities which become, shall we say, enspirited. The first is the animal. This is the most predominant. The second is the vegetable, most especially that which you call, sound vibration complex, “tree.” These entities are capable of giving and receiving enough love to become individualized. The third is mineral. Occasionally a certain location/place, as you may call it, becomes energized to individuality through the love it receives and gives in relationship to a third-density entity which is in relationship to it. This is the least common transition.

19.3 Questioner: When this transition from second to third density takes place, how does the entity, whether it be animal, [vegetable] tree, or mineral, become enspirited?

Ra: I am Ra. Entities do not become enspirited. They become aware of the intelligent energy within each portion, cell, or atom, as you may call it, of its beingness.

This awareness is that which is awareness of that already given. From the infinite come all densities. The self-awareness comes from within given the catalyst of certain experiences understanding, as we may call this particular energy, the upward spiraling of the cell or atom or consciousness.

You may then see that there is an inevitable pull toward the, what you may call, eventual realization of self.

Ra: I am Ra. Perhaps the most common occurrence of second-density graduation during third-density cycle is the so-called pet.

For the animal which is exposed to the individualizing influences of the bond between animal and third-density entity, this individuation causes a sharp rise in the potential of the second density entity so that upon the cessation of physical complex the mind/body complex does not return into the undifferentiated consciousness of that species, if you will.

21.7
As the incarnations begin to accumulate, other needs are discovered: the need to trade, the need to love, the need to be loved, the need to elevate animalistic behaviors to a more universal perspective.

During the first portion of third-density cycles, incarnations are automatic and occur rapidly upon the cessation of energy complex of the physical vehicle. There is small need to review or to heal the experiences of the incarnation. As, what you would call, the energy centers begin to be activated to a higher extent, more of the content of experience during incarnation deals with the lessons of love.

53.14 Questioner: Well, are those who are taken on both Confederation and Orion craft then experiencing a seeming physical examination?

Ra: I am Ra. Your query indicates incorrect thinking. The Orion group uses the physical examination as a means of terrifying the individual and causing it to feel the feelings of an advanced second-density being such as a laboratory animal. The sexual experiences of some are a sub-type of this experience. The intent is to demonstrate the control of the Orion entities over the Terran inhabitant.

Don't know about you guys but this sounds like we are being treated like an animal? And we don't seem to like it?

84.2 Questioner: In the last session you mentioned the least distorted complex protein for the instrument since its body complex was capable of greatly increased distortion. Would you define the protein of which you spoke and in which direction is the increased distortion, towards health or ill-health?

Ra: I am Ra. We were, in the cautionary statement about complex protein, referring to the distortions of the animal protein which has been slaughtered and preservatives added in order to maintain the acceptability to your peoples of this non-living, physical material. It is well to attempt to find those items which are fresh and of the best quality possible in order to avoid increasing this particular entity’s distortions which may be loosely termed allergic.

---

My friend, ironically, is the one who gave me 1 of the 2 books that provided the catalyst for my going veg: Survival in the 21st Century. My friend read it and was so blown away, she bought 10 copies and gave them as Christmas gifts to all her friends!

Hey have you checked out any of the Gabriel Cousens books? I just bought Life in the 21st Century for my dad.

You wanna hear something funny? I still love the smell of burnt flesh, but what made me laugh was walking by a ground lamp that was full of burning bugs, and the smell made me think there was a BBQ going somewhere. Not till I walked by the lamp did I notice it was just a pile of insects ha. BTW, getting a small burst of electrocution you will notice that your skin smells exactly like bacon.

[Monica]

Ra: I am Ra. Your query indicates incorrect thinking. The Orion group uses the physical examination as a means of terrifying the individual and causing it to feel the feelings of an advanced second-density being such as a laboratory animal. The sexual experiences of some are a sub-type of this experience. The intent is to demonstrate the control of the Orion entities over the Terran inhabitant.

Don't know about you guys but this sounds like we are being treated like an animal? And we don't seem to like it?

OH WOW. Pickle, I forgot about that quote. Do you realize the significance!!??? Domination of a laboratory animal is being equated with STS dominating.

This is huge! Highly significant!

Ra: I am Ra. We were, in the cautionary statement about complex protein, referring to the distortions of the animal protein which has been slaughtered and preservatives added in order to maintain the acceptability to your peoples of this non-living, physical material. It is well to attempt to find those items which are fresh and of the best quality possible in order to avoid increasing this particular entity’s distortions which may be loosely termed allergic.

This quote is often cited to justify eating 'organic' meat.

But in my opinion, that's not what this quote is about. To me, it is saying just how unacceptable animals 'food's are, that they have to be disguised and preserved, in order to make them 'acceptable.'

[quote='Pickle' pid='39923' dateline='1305268591']
Hey have you checked out any of the Gabriel Cousens books? I just bought Life in the 21st Century for my dad.

Oh I adore Gabriel Cousens!!! I don't have that one yet (that's his new one right?) but I have most of his others.

You wanna hear something funny? I still love the smell of burnt flesh, but what made me laugh was walking by a ground lamp that was full of burning bugs, and the smell made me think there was a BBQ going somewhere. Not till I walked by the lamp did I notice it was just a pile of insects ha. By the way, getting a small burst of electrocution you will notice that your skin smells exactly like bacon.

Associations with smell are hard to get rid of. Smells remind us of events in our past, and have a positive or negative association.

[BrownEye]

Hey have you checked out any of the Gabriel Cousens books? I just bought Life in the 21st Century for my dad.

Oh I adore Gabriel Cousens!!! I don't have that one yet (that's his new one right?) but I have most of his others.

I should have been more specific LoL. What I just bought should be the newer version of your book, Life in the Twenty-first Century by Viktoras Kulvinskas.

Hmmm, if you think about animals not being individuals, and mainly just part of the collective, then the bodies of certain animals like cows and chickens are a dead end for Souls. They will repeat the process of incarnating into the same shell, unless of course, something changes drastically, such as, Mankind becoming extinct, or, we advance beyond the point of needless killing for self gratification.

Strange thought to think that we could be keeping a few species from evolving Ha, the universe really does revolve around us!

Remember that those entities in the higher densities can devour us too? They just don't do it? I don't remember which case, but it specified that every density is able to eat of densities lower than itself. Funny thought right there too, good thing they are more advanced than us, I wouldn't like to think that I could be eaten in my sleep LoL!

[Confused]

We feel the same about animal suffering, as we do about human suffering. Should humans have the freedom to inflict suffering on other humans?

That is in fact a very profound point and a question of great wrenching significance!

[3DMonkey]

Recently, someone told me they felt guilty for eating meat, and then felt judged by me when they found out I didn't eat meat.

In both of these cases, I did nothing to judge them. I was simply being who I am. I was accepting them, even though I choose not to accept their choice for myself.

I don't want this to be a personal question, even though the answer requires your personal viewpoint. If you know what I mean, I want to ask what your thought process is. Like what does "accepting them but not accepting their choice" look like in your mind? I still can't wrap my head around it.

---

We feel the same about animal suffering, as we do about human suffering. Should humans have the freedom to inflict suffering on other humans?

That is in fact a very profound point and a question of great wrenching significance!

I still think animal suffering is the same as plant suffering. Frankly, the logos has us all suffering. Honestly, under free will, all humans DO have the freedom to inflict suffering on other humans.

[norral]

first let me say i a not a vegan. i was for about 6 years and then i stopped. what a person eats is their business. i was talking to my friend last night who is korean and 55 years old. he said when his sister was 6 years old she went to the market and saw a chicken being killed. it traumatized her and she hasnt eaten chicken since then. i asked him if she has ever seen a cow being killed . if we did see that we might not want to eat beef. this reality we live in is not designed to be totally compassionate. look at a lion it eats meat it was designed that way. our society is designed to sell us meat to make a profit, just as it is designed to sell weapons of war to make a profit. as the individual becomes more and more aware of what goes on on the planet they will naturally arrive at making certain choices about diet , personal conduct etc on their own. in their own time.
the buddha died choking on a pork bone. christ seemed to eat meat it doesnt say anywhere that he didnt. he said that man is not defiled by what goes into his mouth but by what comes out of his mouth. good enuf for me .
one of the four noble truths of buddhism is that life is suffering and it is. this reality is designed to produce suffering its very nature provides suffering for us. for me taking a compassionate view towards others and trusting that others are able to make their own decisions on their own is the way to go. if someone decides to stop eating meat wonderful , if not wonderful. and i am not saying anybody is judging anybody but what i am saying is that people will make their own dietary or personal decisions when they are ready and i respect that.
and a big hug to everybody both vegan and non vegan

[Confused]

Frankly, the logos has us all suffering.

Something that I have been deeply feeling sad about for quite a long time now

Poignant post, 3

[Crown]

first let me say i a not a vegan. i was for about 6 years and then i stopped. what a person eats is their business. i was talking to my friend last night who is korean and 55 years old. he said when his sister was 6 years old she went to the market and saw a chicken being killed. it traumatized her and she hasnt eaten chicken since then. i asked him if she has ever seen a cow being killed . if we did see that we might not want to eat beef. this reality we live in is not designed to be totally compassionate. look at a lion it eats meat it was designed that way. our society is designed to sell us meat to make a profit, just as it is designed to sell weapons of war to make a profit. as the individual becomes more and more aware of what goes on on the planet they will naturally arrive at making certain choices about diet , personal conduct etc on their own. in their own time.
the buddha died choking on a pork bone. christ seemed to eat meat it doesnt say anywhere that he didnt. he said that man is not defiled by what goes into his mouth but by what comes out of his mouth. good enuf for me .
one of the four noble truths of buddhism is that life is suffering and it is. this reality is designed to produce suffering its very nature provides suffering for us. for me taking a compassionate view towards others and trusting that others are able to make their own decisions on their own is the way to go. if someone decides to stop eating meat wonderful , if not wonderful. and i am not saying anybody is judging anybody but what i am saying is that people will make their own dietary or personal decisions when they are ready and i respect that.
and a big hug to everybody both vegan and non vegan

I like your post friend and i want to point out a few things.

Sure, the lions in nature eat meat and in a cruel way also. And yes, Jesus and Budha ate meat. But these examples are different from the average 21st century human being. When we eat meat we support the industry which is a f***** up industry.

I turned vegeterian a few months ago but if i find myself very hungry and i cant buy food, then i will likely set a trap up and hunt some bird or whatever and eat it.

What comes out of your mouth is highely affected by your belief, and eating industry meat on a daily basis surely, in my opinion, changes you as a person. Even if not aware.


Anyway, If we all stop eating meat we can bring this horrible industry down. And then force ouyrselevs to come up with a new system regarding our eating habbits.


In this recent article, its said that a third of the food in the whole world is being thrown away. Clearly something is wrong here.

Third of the food goes to waste

[norral]

hi crown

its kind of stunning that 1/3 of all food is wasted . brother i pray for the awakening of this world.. may we all become more conscious of what we are doing and how we are treating each other. may love and compassion flood our beings may our hearts be opened wide to one another and may love, glorious and beautiful, finally, after so much so so much agony and suffering, emerge victorious .

i embrace u in love
norral

[Monica]

i asked him if she has ever seen a cow being killed . if we did see that we might not want to eat beef.

Exactly! Which is why I invite everyone to open their eyes to the reality of the cruelty to animals. Just do a search on youtube for animal cruelty slaughterhouses and you will find lots of graphic proof of this reality. This is real. If we are becoming conscious beings, how can we turn our backs on this? That is like pretending wars don't exist while supporting the military machine.

I'm not judging anyone. I repeat: I'm not judging anyone. I just don't understand how people an engage in a conversation about something they haven't bothered to actually investigate.

I have a huge amount of respect for my friend who took her kids to the slaughterhouse. She allowed them to make their own choice, but she ensured that it was an informed choice. It's like trying to discuss the flavor of an exotic fruit when one has never tasted that fruit.

As the saying goes, If slaughterhouses had glass walls, everyone would be a vegetarian.

this reality we live in is not designed to be totally compassionate. look at a lion it eats meat it was designed that way.

Very true! And, as has been mentioned on this thread, some of us are working to change that, for future realities. We are creators, after all!

our society is designed to sell us meat to make a profit, just as it is designed to sell weapons of war to make a profit.

Profound observation!

as the individual becomes more and more aware of what goes on on the planet they will naturally arrive at making certain choices about diet , personal conduct etc on their own. in their own time.

Yes, and those who choose to click on this thread and read it, are apparently in that process. They are choosing to consider other viewpoints. We all affect one another. Thus, it is entirely appropriate for us to all offer our viewpoints about eating animals, in a discussion thread about eating animals.

the buddha died choking on a pork bone. christ seemed to eat meat it doesnt say anywhere that he didnt. he said that man is not defiled by what goes into his mouth but by what comes out of his mouth. good enuf for me .

I'm not so sure either of those is true. Myths abound about those historical figures. A lot was written about Jesus, that was taken from other myths. Who knows what he really did or said?

I consider The Essene Gospel of Peace to be much more likely accurate, in its account of Jesus' views about diet, because it is explicitly about that. I invite any fans of Jesus to read this beautiful little book, free online here. It's very short and can be read in 1 sitting.

and a big hug to everybody both vegan and non vegan

[Bring4th_Austin]

Our government will let us smoke cancer sticks but not drink raw milk.

Yeah it's absurd.

But remember, they make lots of $$ from treating lung cancer.

'They' being the drug companies, who are in bed with the FDA.

Are you in the US?

Yes, in NC. And there is a huge demand for raw milk, and I am too scared to sell it .


Monica, perusing through this thread, I can't readily find a clear answer to this question (though we've somewhat discussed it before):

Do you automatically equate meat-eating with cruelty to animals?

Humane treatment of meat animals is a very real reality, one that I live every day. If I took a picture of my view from my window right now, you'd be envious of the life my goats and chickens live.

I am involved in the meat industry for the very intention of bringing the realization of the atrocity of the mass meat industry. But awareness is growing and more hope is added to my already abundant hope every day that things are changing.

[Monica]

I don't want this to be a personal question, even though the answer requires your personal viewpoint. If you know what I mean, I want to ask what your thought process is. Like what does "accepting them but not accepting their choice" look like in your mind? I still can't wrap my head around it.

Ra mentioned the resolution of paradox in the very first session. How can we be all One, yet each progress thru the densities? How can Oneness and polarity both exist?

Understanding the Law of One is an ongoing process that we are all aspiring to. Understanding is not of this density, yet Ra provided information, and attempted to explain in ways that we can understand. I shared my own (limited) understanding about accepting choice in the other thread. It's not something that can be easily explained. We each can consider the viewpoints of others, and allow those viewpoints to stretch our understanding, and we can contemplate and meditate on the Law of One concepts.

[Confused]

Ra mentioned the resolution of paradox in the very first session. How can we be all One, yet each progress thru the densities? How can Oneness and polarity both exist?

I think this quote explains what you are saying well --

From 3.10

In the first case only the one individual, purified of all flaws, could move a mountain. In the case of mass understanding of unity, each individual may contain an acceptable amount of distortion and yet the mass mind could move mountains. The progress is normally from the understanding which you now seek to a dimension of understanding which is governed by the laws of love, and which seeks the laws of light. Those who are vibrating with the Law of Light seek the Law of One. Those who vibrate with the Law of One seek the Law of Foreverness.

We have to be ever mindful of our individual position in the infinite scheme, in order to move ahead in practical terms, I guess.

[Monica]

Yes, in NC. And there is a huge demand for raw milk, and I am too scared to sell it .

That's really sad. Yet another reason to get Ron Paul elected, since he intends to dismantle the FDA. But I digress...

Monica, perusing through this thread, I can't readily find a clear answer to this question (though we've somewhat discussed it before):

Do you automatically equate meat-eating with cruelty to animals?

I answered that question in detail, in this post:

http://bring4th.org/forums/showthread.ph...7#pid14197

Humane treatment of meat animals is a very real reality, one that I live every day. If I took a picture of my view from my window right now, you'd be envious of the life my goats and chickens live.

I am involved in the meat industry for the very intention of bringing the realization of the atrocity of the mass meat industry. But awareness is growing and more hope is added to my already abundant hope every day that things are changing.

It's not my place to judge you or anyone else. This isn't a game of "who's the purest of us all". It's a process of raising awareness, and changing our reality to one that isn't violent. You are part of that very important process of change. I commend you for that!

[BrownEye]

the buddha died choking on a pork bone. christ seemed to eat meat it doesnt say anywhere that he didnt. he said that man is not defiled by what goes into his mouth but by what comes out of his mouth. good enuf for me .

The Bible like all religious texts are chock full of modifications and mistranslations. Easiest to see if you translate Revelations yourself word for word. The English translation has created many things that were not there in Greek, creating whole beliefs about the future that are just plucked out of the air, by English translators.

Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour: 10And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance, 11And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth: 12Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. 13And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat. 14But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.

I have my own discussion group, including a Hindu and Buddhist. In comparisons of the differing texts, and the LOO, we found that the common understandings of the Buddhist texts are riddled with misunderstandings. My buddy in India was complaining about the same problem with the Hindu texts. Rampant fundamentalism takes meaning and hides it from the masses.

BTW, the whole group has the ability to communicate with the Soul and Spirit, and so validating thoughts, ideas, or even history, is fairly easy. Jesus did not eat meat.