The mysterious nature of time

[Confused]

Ever since reading the LOO, I have been wondering about the nature of time. Time, seemed to be the puzzle piece that never fit, and that never obeyed convention. It spun and weaved its dance, combining both metaphysics and human nature into a deep complex paradigm, in my mind.

The following is a mainstream video from BBC, which tries to understand the nature of 'Cosmic Time'. It contains some good explanations that I think agree with the LOO. Those interested may check and judge for themselves --

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=...8906840562#

[C-JEAN]

Hi Confused and science fans.

About time: If you want to see a scientific demo of
humans modifying the PAST, search for the 3 DVD
kit I link too, in my signature.

Blue skies.

[turtledude23]

Interesting show.

In space/time we have 3 dimensions of space (forward/backward, sideways, up/down) and 1 dimension of time (forward - and possibly backward). In space you can go to many places which look different and which can contain many other entities, but you don't have much time to do it. The external things in space whether of 1st, 2nd, or 3rd density generally occupy most peoples attention for most of their incarnation. Some people like me or monks prefer introspection and exploring their own mind and either do so in one spot or walk around to do it as that helps with creativity, however it is the activity of most interest which can be done if one were isolated in one spot with no other entities around them. Time/space is like the latter scenario, you have alot of time to think things over but thats pretty much all you can do, there would be very little or no interaction with entities "near" you. Time/space would probably be the opposite of space/time and have 3 dimensions of time (forward/backward, sideways, up/down) and one dimension of space (forward - and possibly backward). But what would that mean exactly? How can one go sideways or up/down in time? Perhaps the metaverse/omniverse can be imagined as a 3-D grid, each cube/slot containing one universe like our own, with the universes around it being similar with minor differences, the differences getting greater the further away you move from the starting point. So moving sideways in time would likely be seeing parallel possibilities of the same situation (walking your dog and your friend says hi, walking your dog and your friend doesn't say hi, etc.), moving up/down in time could be a different kind of parallel (walking your dog when its sunny and your friend says hi, walking your dog when its raining and your friend says hi, etc.) and moving diagonally [which wouldn't count as its own dimension since its just a combination of up/down and sideways] could combine parallels and go further from the starting point faster (walking your dog when its sunny and your friend doesn't say hi, walking with your friend when its partly-cloudy, deciding not to go for a walk at all and staying inside, etc.). As for space having 1 dimension it would mean you'd have enough space to exist so you can do the introspection, but little or no room to move around, so you can pretty much only stay in the same spot or move linearly: the space laid out for your time/space existence could like a maze inside a void with the few surroundings stimulating certain ideas, feelings, memories, and behaviours in your mind as you move by them. You could probably move forward, or even backward, at your own pace depending on what you're ready to handle, introspection can be very difficult for many people.

[unity100]

there is no 'time as a dimension' concept in Ra material. that is the human mathematics' own devising.

in Ra material, space and time are two counterparts. and they distribute to each other in different ratios in space/time, and time/space.

ALL densities, dimensions, take place on this space/time, time/space distribution weighting.

the space/time of ANY given dimension/density is its physical part, and time/space of any given dimension/density is its astral part.

in short, there is no such thing as '4th dimension is time' or 'time is an added dimension'.

space, and time, transcends dimensions.

[Confused]

Thanks, C-JEAN

---

Interesting show.

I particularly found it interesting that even mainstream Science acknowledges that Time is itself evolving in its own way. I think the people in the video said we are at the beginning of something like the second stage of evolution of the cosmos itself as a whole, which sort of reminded of Mayan evolutionary dynamics like that exemplified by Ian Xel Lungold and John Calleman.

[Unbound]

We seek within.

[Confused]

space, and time, transcends dimensions.

unity100, what role do you think time may play in Ra's observation that the infinite creation will itself coalesce back into the gravity well of the One Infinite Creator at some 'stage'?

Does not the evolutionary nature of time hold the key to understanding that mystery?

---

I think this is a good time to post a link to Dewey Larson's Reciprocal Theory. http://rstheory.org/faq/9

The link you posted seems to contain many exciting points. I will come back at a future point after having read and digested it to the best of my ability.

My scientific understanding is extremely weak, and thus I may ask some naive questions. Please bear with that aspect.

[3DMonkey]

@turtledue23

I have pondered the exact same way!!

Although I have always had a hard time handling that one dimension of space in time/space. In s/t, we are restricted by time and we move along one line. I get the 3 dimensions of time with parallel and alternate universes. Theoretically, in s/t, we can go anywhere in space within certain restrictions, i.e. no flying, no going to Pluto. I imagine time movement in t/s is similarly restricted according to densitiy abilities. Still, how do we move along one line of space? I can't fathom it.

---

I think this is a good time to post a link to Dewey Larson's Reciprocal Theory. http://rstheory.org/faq/9
I haven't read in to it thoroughly yet but it is very interesting and astonishing!

I think "time" is the Now, space can be measured in time and time can be measured in space so really as Larson says it indeed seems that they are only reciprocal aspects of motion. Mind you, all in all Time is simultaneous, every moment existing within itself in coexistence with every other moment. When viewed this way it seems perfectly possible for an infinite amount of states to exist at all times. My question is, do moments recycle or is every single moment a brand new one, fresh in to existence. In the moment exists the entire being, linear time is only an illusion, past and future blend in to one another, jumping back and forth, like a Great Knot.

I would add that I think this moment depends on every other possible moment in order to be this moment. And so it is with the next, and the next. Unity, remember. It's all One Unified original thought.

[unity100]

space, and time, transcends dimensions.

unity100, what role do you think time may play in Ra's observation that the infinite creation will itself coalesce back into the gravity well of the One Infinite Creator at some 'stage'?

i doubt it is as Ra describes. THIS creation, or this series of 'infinite' creations may coalesce back and forth, however, i very much think this entire series of creations is still only a part of infinity, so, therefore still able to change states of 'coalescing' and spreading out.

i think that there is no such coalescence taking place at all - the coalescing point is always in the same state - of coalescing. something like a separation that takes place from infinity downwards, structured with space and time. like a structure. and depending on what point of it you look at it, you see different situations. ie 'it spreads out', but, at another space - time point, it also coalesces back. these are, when looked at from outside this structure, are simultaneous and parts of this structure.

[Confused]

Still, how do we move along one line of space?

I do not think we move in that case. We are stationary, while time is fluid all around us. You see all your incarnations played out in multiple screens around you I, I guess.

[3DMonkey]

Yes. I see that also, Confused. Just as you describe. Ra says that we can move thru space in t/s by using thought. I think. "?".

[Confused]

space, and time, transcends dimensions.

unity100, what role do you think time may play in Ra's observation that the infinite creation will itself coalesce back into the gravity well of the One Infinite Creator at some 'stage'?

i doubt it is as Ra describes. THIS creation, or this series of 'infinite' creations may coalesce back and forth, however, i very much think this entire series of creations is still only a part of infinity, so, therefore still able to change states of 'coalescing' and spreading out.

i think that there is no such coalescence taking place at all - the coalescing point is always in the same state - of coalescing. something like a separation that takes place from infinity downwards, structured with space and time. like a structure. and depending on what point of it you look at it, you see different situations. ie 'it spreads out', but, at another space - time point, it also coalesces back. these are, when looked at from outside this structure, are simultaneous and parts of this structure.

Continuing your line of thought, I believe the following extract from a mainstream scientific paper could be useful. Scientists are imagining and doing far more radical things than we give them credit for, in the research on Cosmic Time (imho). I am no scientist and cannot understand many of the terms/points below; nevertheless there are interesting spiritual red flags --

Abstract: Current theoretical physics suggests the flow of time is an illusion: the entire universe just is, with no special meaning attached to the present time. This paper points out that this view, in essence represented by usual space-time diagrams, is based on time-reversible microphysical laws, which fail to capture essential features of the time-irreversible nature of decoherence and the quantum measurement process, as well as macro-physical behaviour and the development of emergent complex systems, including life, which exist in the real universe. When these are taken into account, the unchanging block universe view of spacetime is best replaced by an evolving block universe which extends as time evolves, with the potential of the future continually becoming the certainty of the past; spacetime itself evolves, as do the entities within it. However this time evolution is not related to any preferred surfaces in spacetime; rather it is associated with the evolution of proper time along families of world lines. The default state of fundamental physics should not be taken to be a time irreversible evolution of physical states: it is an ongoing irreversible development of time itself. 1: The flow of time The most important property of time is that it unfolds. The present is different from both the past and future, which in turn are completely different from each other, the past being fixed and the future changeable. The present is the instant of transition between these two states.
Source: http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/sum...1.169.8488

[3DMonkey]

Odd though: I die in las Vegas. I enter time/space at that locale. I can then move through all dimension of time but am subjected to that single spot in space. "?" if so, then it's not necessarily the coordinates of space on earth, neither is it the coordinates of space in solar system, neither galaxy. Or is it???

[Confused]

Ra says that we can move thru space in t/s by using thought.

I am no definitive authority in all this, 3, but I think the key words are 'using thought'.

Even in space/time, can I not imagine myself to be in America, using visualization and imagination; while staying here in India?

Just a point to consider, I suppose. The will of the entity when discovered in its spiraling potential of strength, makes it more and more the creator, I think.

[kycahi]

Ra didn't say very much about the details of time/space, but I got intrigued when they said once that when you leave an incarnation, you go from space/time into time/space. That got me to mulling what that would be like, similar to what turtledude did above.

The only thing I could come up with, and it wasn't particularly satisfying, was that, moving around in time but not in space could mean that you would freely zip back and forth to relive or observe somehow every bit of your last incarnation(s?). You would be stuck in whatever space you were in at those times and not go anywhere else, but you could re-examine your thoughts and behaviors out the wazoo.

Perhaps if you were involved with an event that included several others, and they also were in time/space, you could share perspectives of what it meant. Maybe even if they were still incarnated, you could reach a part of their consciousness in a kind of conference call. Talk about your introspection!

This could be really interesting but, at some point you would want to get back into a new space/time body. The new you would (try to) handle your own programmed events that you want for adjusting your balance or something and fill in gaps of experience. All this subject, of course, to the laws/distortions (Confusion particularly comes to mind) of 3D.

Ra said that 3D newbies would have their incarnations pre-set by others until they had acquired consciousness enough to take this over for themselves. I think they gave it 2 or 3 lives.

Most of this is my own synthesis from a very few clues I derived from the Material. That was a long time ago and this is the first time I wrote it down.

[Confused]

Perhaps if you were involved with an event that included several others, and they also were in time/space, you could share perspectives of what it meant.

kycahi, I just ran a search string on lawofone.info with time/space as the query. I found the following, which closely resonates with what you are saying, I think --

In time/space and in the true color green density, the hands of all are open to the eye. The thoughts, the feelings, the troubles, all these may be seen. There is no deception and no desire for deception. Thus much may be accomplished in harmony but the mind/body/spirit gains little polarity from this interaction. (from 50.12)

Time is also the the great remover of outer obfuscating shells, I suppose. I am increasingly getting intrigued with the physical, metaphysical and spiritual aspects/power of time. I hope this thread develops strongly with help of those mulling the subject, so that I can take home good points for my spiritual evolution.

[Unbound]

We seek within.

[Confused]

Time and space are the first couple, mated they created time/space and space/time, as above, so below.

That is a good and exquisite analogy. Going by it, I wonder whether the following rough correlation can be made --

Time = female aspect
Space = male aspect

If that is the case, it would explain some of the deeper and more mystical attributes of time, over its space counterpart (imho).

[unity100]

Abstract: Current theoretical physics suggests the flow of time is an illusion: the entire universe just is, with no special meaning attached to the present time. This paper points out that this view, in essence represented by usual space-time diagrams, is based on time-reversible microphysical laws, which fail to capture essential features of the time-irreversible nature of decoherence and the quantum measurement process, as well as macro-physical behaviour and the development of emergent complex systems, including life, which exist in the real universe. When these are taken into account, the unchanging block universe view of spacetime is best replaced by an evolving block universe which extends as time evolves, with the potential of the future continually becoming the certainty of the past; spacetime itself evolves, as do the entities within it. However this time evolution is not related to any preferred surfaces in spacetime; rather it is associated with the evolution of proper time along families of world lines. The default state of fundamental physics should not be taken to be a time irreversible evolution of physical states: it is an ongoing irreversible development of time itself. 1: The flow of time The most important property of time is that it unfolds. The present is different from both the past and future, which in turn are completely different from each other, the past being fixed and the future changeable. The present is the instant of transition between these two states.
Source: http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/sum...1.169.8488

time, is comparison of the change in positions/states of what exists. so in a sense, that seems quite accurate.

[Unbound]

Time and space are the first couple, mated they created time/space and space/time, as above, so below.

That is a good and exquisite analogy. Going by it, I wonder whether the following rough correlation can be made --

Time = female aspect
Space = male aspect

If that is the case, it would explain some of the deeper and more mystical attributes of time, over its space counterpart (imho).

I think you are quite on to something!

[kycahi]

kycahi, I just ran a search string on lawofone.info with time/space as the query. I found the following, which closely resonates with what you are saying, I think --

In time/space and in the true color green density, the hands of all are open to the eye. The thoughts, the feelings, the troubles, all these may be seen. There is no deception and no desire for deception. Thus much may be accomplished in harmony but the mind/body/spirit gains little polarity from this interaction. (from 50.12)

Wow, Confused, I see what you mean! This is interesting especially as I had read that section recently but didn't get it at the time.

I think it was the last sentence that confused me. I didn't get why they seemingly were rooting for more polarity, but that must have been the context.

Good find!

[AnthroHeart]

Don't dreams happen in time/space? So maybe after death is like a dream state.

[Unbound]

If you read Seth Speaks it gives details to that exactly, Gemini.

[AnthroHeart]

I keep seeing that book mentioned. I went ahead and ordered it.

If you read Seth Speaks it gives details to that exactly, Gemini.

[Unbound]

You won't be disappointed!

[Confused]

I didn't get why they seemingly were rooting for more polarity, but that must have been the context.

In that sense, I found the following to be a spectacular read, on the 'NOW' aspect of time --

In the late 20s it was discovered that the light from distant galaxies was stretched towards the red end of the visible spectrum. This redshift was found to be greater the further away the galaxy was, and was accepted as evidence of an expanding universe. This inevitably led theorists to extrapolate backwards to the big bang – the moment of its birth some 13.7bn years ago, when space and time exploded into being out of a single point, infinitely hot and dense, called a singularity. That at least was the theory, with little more to back it up until 1964, when two American scientists discovered "cosmic background radiation" – the faint echo of the big bang. In the decades since, further evidence has accumulated and theoretical refinements made to accommodate it. Yet in recent years a few physicists have challenged the big bang model by daring to ask and answer questions such as: was the big bang the beginning of the universe?

Traditionally such questions have been dismissed as meaningless – space and time were created at the big bang; there simply was no "before". Although it's possible to work out in incredible detail what happened all the way back to within a fraction of a second of the big bang, at the moment itself the theory of general relativity breaks down, or as Penrose puts it: "Einstein's equations (and physics as a whole, as we know it) simply 'give up' at the singularity." However, he believes we should not conclude from this that the big bang was the beginning of the universe.

Acknowledging that he's not the first to think such heretical thoughts, Penrose looks at earlier "pre-big bang proposals". Finding them "fanciful", Penrose looked anew at the big bang, because of an unsolved mystery at its heart involving the Second Law of Thermodynamics. One of the most fundamental in all of physics, it simply says that the amount of disorder, something that physicists label "entropy", increases with the passage of time. Herein lies the mystery for Penrose. The instant after the big bang, "a wildly hot violent event", must have been one of maximum entropy. How can entropy therefore increase? Penrose thinks he has the answer; there must be a pre-big bang era that ensures that entropy is low at the birth of the universe. And here's how.

In what Penrose calls "conformal cyclic cosmology", the beginning and the end of the universe are in effect the same, since these two phases of its evolution contain only massless particles. Between now and a far off distant future, everything from the tiniest particles to biggest galaxies will have been eaten by black holes. They in turn lose energy in the form of massless particles and slowly disappear. As one black hole after another vanishes the universe loses "information". Since information is linked to entropy, the entropy of the universe decreases with the demise of each black hole.

The strangest thing about massless particles is that for them there is no such thing as time. There is no past or present, only "now", and it stretches for all eternity – but since there is no tick of the clock, what eternity? With some mind-numbing maths, Penrose argues that as time ends in the era of massless particles, the fate of our universe can actually be reinterpreted as the big bang of a new one: "Our universe is what I call an aeon in an endless sequence of aeons."

Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2010/oct...ose-review

The mainstream is not far behind at all. I think we give the scientists operating in the area of deep physics little due. May be there are some brilliant scientists on this forum, incognito.

---

Don't dreams happen in time/space? So maybe after death is like a dream state.

That reminded me of the following quote --

71.7 Questioner: Is the process in positive time/space identical with the process in negative time/space for this healing?

Ra: I am Ra. The process in space/time of the forgiveness and acceptance is much like that in time/space in that the qualities of the process are analogous. However, while in space/time it is not possible to determine the course of events beyond the incarnation but only to correct present imbalances. In time/space, upon the other hand, it is not possible to correct any unbalanced actions but rather to perceive the imbalances and thusly forgive the self for that which is.

The decisions then are made to set up the possibility/probabilities of correcting these imbalances in what you call future space/time experiences. The advantage of time/space is that of the fluidity of the grand overview. The advantage of space/time is that, working in darkness with a tiny candle, one may correct imbalances.

[kycahi]

That reminded me of the following quote --

71.7
Ra: ...while in space/time it is not possible to determine the course of events beyond the incarnation but only to correct present imbalances. In time/space, upon the other hand, it is not possible to correct any unbalanced actions but rather to perceive the imbalances and thusly forgive the self for that which is.

The decisions then are made to set up the possibility/probabilities of correcting these imbalances in what you call future space/time [incarnation] experiences. The advantage of time/space is that of the fluidity of the grand overview ["zipping?"]. The advantage of space/time is that, working in darkness with a tiny candle [because it's 3D], one may [with luck] correct [those] imbalances.

[Edits by kycahi]

Geez Louise, Confused! You find the best stuff!

[Confused]

Geez Louise, Confused! You find the best stuff!

All thanks to whoever created lawofone.info!!

I always run my searches there to unearth the quotes. Otherwise, it is just impossible for me.

---

This contains some more interesting literature on Time and the nature of the Universe --

http://www.time.com/time/covers/1101010625/story.html

It would be interesting to check whether we can intersect some of the points here with LOO. As we know some deep facts from the LOO, many aspects of what is discussed in the article may unravel for some folks here. Please share your thoughts if possible.

[Confused]

The following is an interesting chapter on Time from the work, The Emerald Tablets of Thoth --

Source: http://www.crystalinks.com/emerald10bw.html

Tablet X: The Key of Time

List ye, O Man. Take of my wisdom.
Learn of his deep hidden mysteries of space.
Learn of the THOUGHT that grew in the abyss,
bringing Order and Harmony in space.

Know ye, O man, that all exists
has being only because of the LAW.
Know ye the LAW and ye shall be free,
never be bound by the fetters of night.

Far, through strange spaces, have I journeyed
into the depth of the abyss of time,
until in the end all was revealed.
Know ye that mystery is only mystery
when it is knowledge unknown to man.
When ye have plumbed the heart of all mystery,
knowledge and wisdom will surely be thine.

Seek ye and learn that TIME is the secret
whereby ye may be free of this space.

Moderator note: post edited to provide excerpt instead of entire text, in alignment with guidelines.

[Unbound]

Oooh! I've been long since interested in the Emerald Tablet. It seems to me that any reference to time throughout mystical practices it refers to the "timelessness" of time/space, the causal realm "above" the realm of manifestation.

Needless to say, the third dimension is only percievable in past tense, it is a world of effects.