Electrical Bodies

[Bring4th_Austin]

Not all 3D bodies are bipedal. Dolphins and whales aren't.

Are they 3D?

According to Q'uo. The story is fascinating.
http://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=507

The consciousness of these mammals was enhanced by the genetic manipulation which caused the so-called human and the so-called cetacean [2] to be bonded and blended and unified into that which had every appearance of being a cetacean, yet that which now possessed a spirit complex of third-density level.

Thusly, the natural process of reproduction gradually invested all of these species with third-density consciousness. Consequently, you and the whales and dolphins are indeed brothers, moving through the third-density major cycle of 76,000 or so of your years.

They did this to have an alternative 3D lifestyle to incarnate into, because they noticed their political system moving into very questionable polarity. The fact that Atlanteans genetically modified cetaceans is a consistent theme across much channeled material outside of L/L Research as well.

What's awesome is the sessions gives us to info to relate to this thread.

Jim: “According to information from Q’uo, the fourth density is coming very soon. When Earth enters the fourth density fully, I suppose there will be two kinds of fourth density beings: one looking like humans and the other looking like dolphins or whales. Is this correct?”

We are those of Q’uo and are aware of your query, my brother. My brother, it is certainly correct in terms of the early graduates of third density, for it takes a certain amount of what you call time and experience in fourth density in order to begin to enjoy the freedom that this density offers. We are not those who can probe your future in terms of linear time, for in the linear space/time sense these choices have not yet been made.

But within fourth density there is the capacity of the physical body to make choices as to what form it would wish to use. This opens the choice not only to the human form and the form of the cetaceans but other forms as well.

So we would say, my brother, in early fourth density there certainly shall be found many fourth-density cetaceans and many fourth-density humans, in that their forms continue to resemble those species. As fourth density evolves, so shall the choices of its souls.

It seems that our 4D bodies are not as set in stone as we might assume. I'm not sure what this suggests about the chemical/electrical nature of 4D bodies, but it is a piece of the puzzle I think.

Please don't apologise. I appreciate your learning and study.

Thank you

If anything, I am a wanderer or a 'regular' 3D earthling (martian descent or otherwise!). What does your study indicate for those of my ilk? I assume we'll also have a 3D death before 4D beginning. Would that include a period of enhanced 3D being ?

To the best of my knowledge, as a Wanderer, what happens to you after this particular incarnation can vary greatly depending on several factors. You may have "contractual obligations," as is the nature of being a Wanderer. You have made an "agreement" to incarnate down to 3rd density to answer a call of sorrow, which is an incredibly honorable and beautiful thing in my eyes, especially on this particular planet.

If your plan was to only assist this planet, and you have not accrued karma, you may continue on to your home density. Don't feel like you're missing out, because once you're there you'll clearly remember your 4D experiences, including any dual body experiences if you had them. You've already gone through 4D, you don't need to do it again. If you were to incarnate into a 4D body, you'd remember your true nature as a Wanderer and a higher density being, sort of defeating the point of incarnating down in density.

After this incarnation, you may decide to continue on in service, answering more calls of sorrow from 3D worlds throughout the galaxy/universe. Many may be going through similar transitional phases as Earth at this point. Continuing on would not only be a brave and honorable thing, it would be an exciting existence. From what I can tell, 3D incarnations during periods like this are like roller coaster rides: terrifying, thrilling, but exciting and sometimes fun.

There is also the chance for Wanderers to fall victim to the forgetting, accruing karma and being shuffled along with the unpolarized 3D entities until they reawaken to their true nature and work off their karma. If you feel you have karma to work off, since you have already awoken within this lifetime, you can more than likely discover if it is so and do work to alleviate it. Otherwise, since you're awake and (I'm assuming) polarizing STO, you're more likely to fit into one of the first two categories.

I've just finished listening to the podcast from "The Sons of the Law of One", episodes 2, 3, 5 and 6, chanelled from two seperate sources (other than Ra or Q'uo) - that talk in extremely similar way to Ra, i.e. density 3 to 4, STO and STS, importance of love, green ray, etc.

My point is, they talk of a time when bodies of 3D would evolve to 4D, and thus be able to give birth to 4D beings. Thus this would indicate a period of enhanced 3D being.

Do you agree?

Yes, I do agree. I believe myself that this is what the transitional, dual activated bodies are. They are bodies for 4D beings, but going through the evolution from 3D to 4D. It would seem natural that as this evolution progresses, 4D becomes more and more accessible to us, the veil getting thinner and thinner.

It's my personal belief that, since you do feel you are a Wanderer (and most wanderers are 6D), you will probably not be around for the rest of the transition on Earth. 4D beings are incarnating now, and their energy will bring the changes needed to make Earth a peaceful functioning 4D society. Like I said, if you ever have experienced a dual body, you'll recover those memories on the other side of the veil. You're not missing out on anything at all, you've already experienced it...you just can't remember in your 3D body

[Edinburgh]

Yes, I do agree. I believe myself that this is what the transitional, dual activated bodies are. They are bodies for 4D beings, but going through the evolution from 3D to 4D. It would seem natural that as this evolution progresses, 4D becomes more and more accessible to us, the veil getting thinner and thinner.

It's my personal belief that, since you do feel you are a Wanderer (and most wanderers are 6D), you will probably not be around for the rest of the transition on Earth. 4D beings are incarnating now, and their energy will bring the changes needed to make Earth a peaceful functioning 4D society. Like I said, if you ever have experienced a dual body, you'll recover those memories on the other side of the veil. You're not missing out on anything at all, you've already experienced it...you just can't remember in your 3D body

Thanks 'abridgetoofar' ... your words resonate with meaning and study.

[3DMonkey]

Are you wanting an exact answer to whether or not a wanderer will experience "advanced beingness" in their current incarnation?

I would say probably not. I would also say the "advanced" won't be "super human".

Do you feel like you'll be missing out?

No.

But I want someone who has studied this to give me an answer.

abridgetoofar seems to have studied this beyond my abilities.

I feel you are a clever person, with clever answers, but doesn't necessarily understand the truth beyond the clever answer. I express love to you my friend and brother. I used to be like you, always after the clever 'winning' answer.

But you ignored what you previously agreed upon. We had already resolved that dual bodies and wanderers were to be treated differently. You were party to this discussion. Do you remember my brother?

So when I grow out of my phase, I can devalue others? Awesome

I know my own thoughts. My obssessive nature remembers my thoughts. If I've appeared contradicting or repetitive, I could explain.

If you want abridgetoofar, you can have abridgetoofar.

[hogey11]

The questions you ask are very interesting and in the nature of this discussion. What makes a 1D body form into a 2D body? The very presence of a 2D Entity's vibrating nature; more dense spiritual mass applied. What makes a 2D body form an awareness of other selves in 3D? The presence of a 3D Entity's vibrating nature; more dense spiritual mass applied. This brings us to contemplate what makes a 3D body form into what we imagine the Love Density body to be. Looking at clues, we can probably conclude that a 4D vibratory nature consisting with more dense spiritual mass than ours will fill and shape our bodies into a new configuration reflecting a single pole of Love. It's a body not completely different because it is bipedal. There is a wide variety between 2D bodies (perhaps another discussion). The 3D denseness creates a more uniform appearance.

What is the difference in bodies 3D and 4D? How will increased spiritual mass, Love vibration in this case, change this current body we have?

Sidenote: this is probably another good use of time/space in creation. With only one dimension of space, time/space is not burdened with the full weight of the all-times-existences of entities.

Monkey!!! We're thinking alike!

I think this is the heart of the issue at hand: What constitutes the transition and the end of that transition?

Spitballing:

- 3D to 4D = greater spiritual mass, as Monkey has implied
- We know the transitional bodies are 3D beings who will be able to "appreciate" 4D vibrations/sphere

Here's where it gets tricky in my mind:

- 4D birth is a mature birth according to Q'uo
- 4D does not include the veil
- i'm assuming 4D compassion is rooted in all the catalyst experienced in 3D; an understanding of such things.

With all this taken into account, is 4D death as much of a bump in the road as we are making it out to be? Could it be seamless? We won't forget who we are. We won't be confused as to where and what we are.

Could the transitional body also be a mindset more than a physical vessel? Considering we can heal ourselves within third density through contact with intelligent infinity, is it completely out of the question that our physical bodies could shift if earnestly asked to (by the self)?

Could 3D, 3D/4D, and 4D be more like 'configurations' for our 1D/2D selves rather than separate bodies/realities entirely? We know 3D/4D is the first time a sphere goes into potentiation rather than being rolled up into the higher density. I think this is not to be taken lightly, as, for the first time, a sphere isn't being added - it's being replaced.

[3DMonkey]

Yes, we are thinking together ... I finally caught the wave you are on

Pondering your questions and following Austin's last post ( and also doing extensive reading and studying my own ) ..... Consider the "more electric" 4D body. You ask the question of mindset vs body. Austin points out reasons that 4D physical vehicles are not necessarily set in stone.
If we take the first four characteristics of densities as if they were a stack of blocks..... metaphysical blocks.... Take the 4 off the top and you are looking at a more chemical metaphysical body.... Adding 4 makes the metaphysical body more electrical.

I think, fundamentally, we are each trying to break away from seeing the body as a physical vehicle. The fascination is in that the metaphysical nature of the entity's color rays body has everything to do with the physical vehicle's manifestation, but the physical vehicle's manifestation has little, if anything, to do with the vibrating color ray body.

(sidenote: I am speaking of the manifestation of the physical. The physical vehicle once established offers to the reaching of 5D)

[Edinburgh]

But you ignored what you previously agreed upon. We had already resolved that dual bodies and wanderers were to be treated differently. You were party to this discussion. Do you remember my brother?

So when I grow out of my phase, I can devalue others? Awesome

I know my own thoughts. My obssessive nature remembers my thoughts. If I've appeared contradicting or repetitive, I could explain.

If you want abridgetoofar, you can have abridgetoofar.

Sorry, I think I made a mistake and spoke too quickly. I didn't mean to give the impression of devaluing what you said. It was my fustration at what seemed to be comments you made that contradicted/ confused the issue.

Possibly we are getting caught in semantics These are tough metaphysical topics and tough times a'coming. Please accept my apology.

Huh? Are we trying to skip green by this very desire to know?
Remember, to ascend, we must accept that we absolutely do NOT understand.

Despite this, curiosity persists. I'll never pretend to understand, but I can't help but try.

Last night while I was meditating, I received the constant thought that I was concentrating too hard to the technical aspects of something that might not even matter to me. I'll continue my search for understanding, even knowing it won't come, but balancing this is something I also must learn.

I always figured the best path to polarizing for 4D would be to learn the Laws of Love anyways, the Law of One seems to be a few graduate courses ahead of that

This really resonated - it seems that we are trying too hard to understand the mechanics of something that we can't understand and getting tied up in knots. I will now go and meditate on this and practice some unconditional love.
Peace.

[3DMonkey]

Here's a technical data concentration.

Forgive me if this next line of thought is something you all have been considering this entire discussion.

Dual bodies. The part that is 4D. How is this combined with the concept that 4D is a social memory complex.

Also, I may be totally flawed in my perception of what a social memory complex is. I have been under the impression that the entire planet of 4D entities form a social memory complex. Now, I'm thinking it is small groups of people on a planey...

I'm half asleep, so I dunno if any of that makes sense.

[hogey11]

Here's a technical data concentration.

Forgive me if this next line of thought is something you all have been considering this entire discussion.

Dual bodies. The part that is 4D. How is this combined with the concept that 4D is a social memory complex.

Also, I may be totally flawed in my perception of what a social memory complex is. I have been under the impression that the entire planet of 4D entities form a social memory complex. Now, I'm thinking it is small groups of people on a planey...

I'm half asleep, so I dunno if any of that makes sense.

I remember looking into this and reading that it will take time for the 4D social memory complex to come together over hundreds if not thousands of years in 4D. It will not be instant at the start, if i'm remembering correctly...

I was talking with a friend last night, and entertain me here:

I think 3D/4D just means you are 'wired' differently. How can I put this?... I think there is a reason that some old people have a hard time dealing with the world as it is today. I think there is a reason that so many of them sit at home scared and angry. I think these are the non-harvestable 3D entities that are having a tough time dealing with the 4D vibrations hitting earth right now. They see kids of different cultures and races getting together, they see the internet dominating our lives and culture, they see drug addicts and mentally challenged kids getting more help than ever, and it doesn't make sense to them. "Why?!?" - they think. They think "Xenophobia! Laziness! Undeserved expense!" I think 3D/4D people are those whose hearts jump at the things I just mentioned, as they see the unity inspiring these actions. They have a greater capacity to love - full stop. They feel it stronger, they feel it harder, and they have more of it to give.

This personal theory kinda makes sense to me too in that it makes sense in my own life. I have friends/family who are shut off to the concept of love; they don't seek to participate in it and even shun themselves from it. 3D/4Ds have an advantage in love that a pure 3D does not; 3Ds have to earn their compassion while transitionals are given an inherent supplement, if you will.

I guess to wrap it all up into a rhetorical statement... can the 3D-4D spectrum be measured by how easily you are able to love?

[3DMonkey]

I like that. Love love love. That's the proper progression

....
I couldn't find any direct Statement from Ra to indicate that a 4D planet is a universal social memory complex. When I first read the material, this is how I perceived it, but now it's not as apparent to me. I can actually read the material now and conceive that two people alone can form a "social memory complex".

This is off topic. It doesn't matter either way for the focus on what the physical body does.

I'm circling back to the idea that we are searching out how mind/spirit manifests body.

[AnthroHeart]

That reminds me of this quote from Ra. I'm not sure if it's referring to 3D or 4D. I wonder if our quarantine holds out through the beginning of 4D.

11.16 Questioner: What do the crusaders do?

Ra: I am Ra. The crusaders move in their chariots to conquer planetary mind/body/spirit social complexes before they reach the stage of achieving social memory.

[zenmaster]

I guess to wrap it all up into a rhetorical statement... can the 3D-4D spectrum be measured by how easily you are able to love?

that may or may not be the case, but, rhetorically, as we do not know what 'love' is, any more than we know what the logos is, what are you really saying. We are still seeking 'love' in 3D, regardless of our ethical considerations or core values. even egalitarianism is transcended when a transpersonal perspective is established, and that is transcended with a holistic standpoint. If we are satisfied that we know what 'love' is, and know how to 'love', then we can measure. Until then, it's a bias of what I like to see vs what I don't like to see, just like our bias for aesthetic value of art.

[3DMonkey]

A proper observation with it's own internal paradox. :-)

but there is no paradox. How could this be? Because the paradox is designed to provide the answer by being the answer. "Q: what is love. A: Exactly"

returning to myself ( rather THIS self of MY self)... I don't think of "love" as what I see and justify. It is moreso a moment of clarity that is unexplainable and not derived from rationalizations. It exists as a thing of itself, IMO, as each of the 22 archetypes is a thing of itself.

[hogey11]

For myself, Love has no decisions. I don't decide to love in that moment, because of any justification or reason. I love.

In the last 2 years, I have increasingly been unable to watch shows that help people without getting emotional. I was really embarassed at first, but part of me thinks this is the increasing 4D waves hitting earth; I am feeling more empathetic than ever, more sympathetic than ever... just more loving in general. This is the distinction i'm trying to make; is 4D completely compulsory and does the 4D influence provide latent ability rather than something we 'tap' into consciously?

I think it makes the most sense to me by saying that as the 4D vibrations increase on earth, those who are ready will feel more and more love for their fellow person, but completely subconsciously.... In a situation where someone once would have turned away or denied another, maybe they stop and think twice purely due to the increased 4D vibrations, and only if they are transitionals. If they are pure 3D unharvestable, it will likely seem like Darwin gone wrong, and they would reject it (by this theory)...

[zenmaster]

For myself, Love has no decisions. I don't decide to love in that moment, because of any justification or reason. I love.

I don't think there is such a thing as an evaluation based on emotion, or any unconscious reaction.

In the last 2 years, I have increasingly been unable to watch shows that help people without getting emotional. I was really embarassed at first, but part of me thinks this is the increasing 4D waves hitting earth; I am feeling more empathetic than ever, more sympathetic than ever... just more loving in general.

Feeling emotional sympathy is not so much due to 4D waves, but rather due to prior experience resonating with unprocessed catalyst. All experience, including those which result in emotional reaction, must be processed with honest evaluation before it can be accepted. Once accepted, that is 'love'. We say we 'feel' love because the feeling-resonance (from already accepted experience) is 'pointing towards' acceptance. We might think we 'recognize' or understand the condition we are resonating with, but we do not yet understand. We can only 'relate' on the level we've managed to integrate. We don't know the difference, yet, between feeling love and 'being' love.

This is the distinction i'm trying to make; is 4D completely compulsory and does the 4D influence provide latent ability rather than something we 'tap' into consciously?

This is a good question. We know that 4D is weak on catalyst, except during an initial period where sufficient harmony has not yet been established. We also know that it provides more transparency, and in an automatic fashion. So you can think of that as 'compulsory', I suppose.

I think abilities manifest when sufficient opportunity is provided and taken.

I think it makes the most sense to me by saying that as the 4D vibrations increase on earth, those who are ready will feel more and more love for their fellow person, but completely subconsciously.... In a situation where someone once would have turned away or denied another, maybe they stop and think twice purely due to the increased 4D vibrations, and only if they are transitionals. If they are pure 3D unharvestable, it will likely seem like Darwin gone wrong, and they would reject it (by this theory)...

If love is reduced to a situational emotional reaction, then only a stirring from the unconscious will be seen to be 'loving'. Yet we need 'love', because it's the logos, which is ourselves.

The 4D expression is 'compassion' or 'understanding', because the experienced condition, whatever it may be, is understood and accepted at a deep level. Like for example, Jesus could provide more opportunity for a healing to take place because another's karmic path would also be more conscious and included in the act. So that type of deep 'understanding' or knowing 'the kingdom' is true compassion.

[Bring4th_Austin]

Feeling emotional sympathy is not so much due to 4D waves, but rather due to prior experience resonating with unprocessed catalyst. All experience, including those which result in emotional reaction, must be processed with honest evaluation before it can be accepted. Once accepted, that is 'love'. We say we 'feel' love because the feeling-resonance (from already accepted experience) is 'pointing towards' acceptance. We might think we 'recognize' or understand the condition we are resonating with, but we do not yet understand. We can only 'relate' on the level we've managed to integrate. We don't know the difference, yet, between feeling love and 'being' love.

Thank you for this statement. I found it informative, perceptive, and extremely useful.

[3DMonkey]

Feeling emotional sympathy is not so much due to 4D waves, but rather due to prior experience resonating with unprocessed catalyst. All experience, including those which result in emotional reaction, must be processed with honest evaluation before it can be accepted. Once accepted, that is 'love'. We say we 'feel' love because the feeling-resonance (from already accepted experience) is 'pointing towards' acceptance. We might think we 'recognize' or understand the condition we are resonating with, but we do not yet understand. We can only 'relate' on the level we've managed to integrate. We don't know the difference, yet, between feeling love and 'being' love.

I disagree that we don't know the difference. I find it odd that you state that and then proceed to explain the difference. Honestly, I think you are having a difficult time separating the two as you perceive them in others, or, at the least, read others' accounts of them. I've said this to you before, that I think you underrate 'emotions' as if they are obstacles. Emotions are a valid tool for the m/b/s complex. When I reach a place of acceptance for everything in thought, I feel light. I think a useful exercise would be for you to separate the two by using the word love to describe the commonly referred to emotion and the word light for the love known as acceptance.

If love is reduced to a situational emotional reaction, then only a stirring from the unconscious will be seen to be 'loving'.

This statement troubles me. It seems to me that you are doing the "reducing".

Obviously, I'm finding it difficult to see this how you see it.

[hogey11]

@zenmaster
Why are you putting these things into such a tightly defined box? We're not talking about anything where either of us can claim authority!

I would warn you of assumptions. What do you know of this "emotional sympathy" you speak of? and what do you know of my own situation in regards to this? How do you know what I feel, and where it comes from?

What I am addressing is a feeling that screams at you inside when you walk past injustice or someone in need. That voice, for myself, has been getting louder and louder. Its becoming indiscriminate in who it yells at me for and for what situations. Its like word-bird from fred penner these days!

What I am presupposing will have no evidence for me to show or for anyone to disprove, as it is a new condition for Earth. We know from the Law of One that 4D is a place where the cards are known and the truth is apparent; this ties into the idea as 4D is coming gradually and very soon.

How will 4D come into being here on this planet? We know Earth will be a 4D positive planet; there is no doubt of that. There has to be some fundamental shift in the way that people think, and that is the heart of what I am suggesting. 4D rays = love steroids.

[3DMonkey]

I FEEL LIGHT.

this is an affirmation emerging from within. I wanted to repeat this.

[zenmaster]

Emotions are a valid tool for the m/b/s complex.

Yes, they are catalyst, and an unconscious reaction. Seems like a strawman.

[3DMonkey]

A strawman?

Emotions are not catalyst. They are not unconscious either.

If we were to associate them with an archetype, it would be experience.

---

See, this is what I want to explore with you, zen. By making emotions unconscious in your consciousness, you are underrating them.

[zenmaster]

@zenmaster
Why are you putting these things into such a tightly defined box? We're not talking about anything where either of us can claim authority!

Interesting, from my standpoint, I was trying to remove things from a 'box' - of subjective, encapsulated experience. An idea that seems to relate what 'love' is, through personal experience, but one that is kept extremely vague and ambiguous. It's also interesting how when one attempts to address certain emotions plainly, there is an accusation of devaluation. It's as if the 'sacred chamber' has been stormed. I'm of the opinion that many people tend to put spiritual matters up on a 'pedestal', and experience fear when their day-dreamy feeling of 'love' is some how 'sabotaged'.

I would warn you of assumptions. What do you know of this "emotional sympathy" you speak of?

'Homo sum humani nil a me alienum puto'

and what do you know of my own situation in regards to this? How do you know what I feel, and where it comes from?

I don't.

What I am presupposing will have no evidence for me to show or for anyone to disprove, as it is a new condition for Earth. We know from the Law of One that 4D is a place where the cards are known and the truth is apparent; this ties into the idea as 4D is coming gradually and very soon.

Not sure what exactly you are presupposing, from what you've written. I'm sure you are forming some kind of idea, however. It also seems that you might even be passionate about it.

How will 4D come into being here on this planet? We know Earth will be a 4D positive planet; there is no doubt of that. There has to be some fundamental shift in the way that people think, and that is the heart of what I am suggesting. 4D rays = love steroids.

Where 'love' is that which you feel, presumably a positive thing.

[native]

Though this is probably wrong in terms of standard psychology, I would classify emotions into two categories. The first is empathetic/sympathetic emotions. These are good and natural as long as they don't overly affect how you view a situation. These are the emotions that allow you to feel exterior happenings. Then there are the emotions that stimulate previously held biases or emotions that haven't been processed/understood yet. I don't know what to call those..but these are negative emotions in that they are reactionary and guaranteed to produce the same result when they're stimulated. This is the type of emotion that needs to be overcome.

Emotions are a valid tool for those wanting to experience what they have to offer. Eventually though, you have to move past these reactionary emotions. They distort your perceptions of the truth. When you are able to view everything without clouding your mind with emotion, you are able to approach any situation in a balanced manner and accept it for what it is.

You can be capable of feeling empathy/sympathy without letting a situation push or pull you in any direction. In this way you can accept a situation at face value and go from there.

[zenmaster]

A strawman?

Emotions are not catalyst. They are not unconscious either.

If we were to associate them with an archetype, it would be experience.

---

See, this is what I want to explore with you, zen. By making emotions unconscious in your consciousness, you are underrating them.

Emotions are certainly catalyst. I'd guess they're the most obvious form. We'd have to disagree on that one. Merely looking at all of the emotional reactions on this forum, and the later recognized catalyst from that should be evidence enough.

And they are unconscious, or pointing towards something yet to be integrated. Carl Jung, a thoughtful well-integrated individual, describes emotion as an activity that happens to the individual rather than an activity of the individual. That's basically another way of saying 'unconscious reaction'. Not sure how to go about describing it more clearly for you.

[3DMonkey]

It's also interesting how when one attempts to address certain emotions plainly, there is an accusation of devaluation. It's as if the 'sacred chamber' has been stormed. I'm of the opinion that many people tend to put spiritual matters up on a 'pedestal', and experience fear when their day-dreamy feeling of 'love' is some how 'sabotaged'.

That. Right there. This is a cloud in your vision. You choose to see this even when its not there.

I appreciate this sentiment under specific circumstances. If you throw up this "wall" every time you hear the use of "emotion", then you build your own box. This sentiment is not always applicable. I hope you can understand this.

---

A strawman?

Emotions are not catalyst. They are not unconscious either.

If we were to associate them with an archetype, it would be experience.

---

See, this is what I want to explore with you, zen. By making emotions unconscious in your consciousness, you are underrating them.

Emotions are certainly catalyst. I'd guess they're the most obvious form. We'd have to disagree on that one. Merely looking at all of the emotional reactions on this forum, and the later recognized catalyst from that should be evidence enough.

And they are unconscious, or pointing towards something yet to be integrated. Carl Jung, a thoughtful well-integrated individual, describes emotion as an activity that happens to the individual rather than an activity of the individual. That's basically another way of saying 'unconscious reaction'. Not sure how to go about describing it more clearly for you.

You couldn't be more wrong. I suppose we will have to agree to disagree, as I don't think you are willing to heed my descriptions.

---

It takes consciousness swimming in unconscious confronting a situation (catalyst) that then becomes experienced (emotions), and thus all three become significant of the self.

---

If you like the Jung description, experience is what happens to you.

[zenmaster]

You can be capable of feeling empathy/sympathy without letting a situation push or pull you in any direction. In this way you can accept a situation at face value and go from there.

I agree with this. I think emotions also tend to serve as a protective barrier between oneself and one's unconscious totality. 'love' is a powerful thing, after all.

[3DMonkey]

But that is only of the mind complex I have explained. To apply the body complex, we go into bodily associations with emotions, which is how I think you see them- a body stimulation only.

This may be how Jung defined emotions as well- a body reaction, which may be why he says that it happens... kinda like a rash happens. ( but we know, LOO, that even a rash is more than a simple physical occurrence. It comes from mind and spirit, and other mind/spirits can contribute also)

If you are to view emotions as a body reaction, then you must remove unconscious anyway.

[native]

This idea of Jung's where emotion is that which is not yet integrated is what I was trying to say..the reactionary reflex. You can see the progression from adolescence into adulthood. You learn to deal with your emotions and you "grow up".

You can continue this progression even further into a more balanced state of consciousness. If love was the first thought, we can assume that it is a balanced energy.

---

I don't know 3DM, I've set aside the potentiator and significator teachings for now..so I can't comment on it.

[hogey11]

Interesting, from my standpoint, I was trying to remove things from a 'box' - of subjective, encapsulated experience. An idea that seems to relate what 'love' is, through personal experience, but one that is kept extremely vague and ambiguous.

Why do you strive to dismantle the platforms that others deliver their message on? The 'box' you were so firmly against is the framework of the idea i'm trying to convey. If you find things vague and ambiguous, you are more than welcome to ask for clarity on the points i'm not explaining well enough. This is one of my problems and I apologize, as i'm a bit of a scatterbrain

In relation to this idea, I think we probably misunderstand each other with our terminology. When I speak of Love in this context, I am speaking of unity. I feel emotion in that I feel more than ever that I am sharing others highs and lows. This could be a thing for just me, but that's why this is just an idea; what if millions of people are also starting to feel this way, and its making a real difference in the world? What if the strength of 4D vibrations actually determine how easily we access the ability to unify and love?

It's also interesting how when one attempts to address certain emotions plainly, there is an accusation of devaluation. It's as if the 'sacred chamber' has been stormed. I'm of the opinion that many people tend to put spiritual matters up on a 'pedestal', and experience fear when their day-dreamy feeling of 'love' is some how 'sabotaged'.

If you read my response with an accusatory tone, I apologize. No 'secret chamber' has been stormed; I feel you misunderstood where I was coming from. The subject material is such that none of us can claim authority; I pointed this out in fairness to both of us. Neither of us are beyond the veil, and therefore we should entertain each other's 'boxes', rather than define the details. As Ra says, what is most important is that we know that we do not know.

(i'd imagine anyone debating LOO long enough absolutely hates that damn quote, eh? )

[3DMonkey]

This idea of Jung's where emotion is that which is not yet integrated is what I was trying to say..the reactionary reflex. You can see the progression from adolescence into adulthood. You learn to deal with your emotions and you "grow up".

You can continue this progression even further into a more balanced state of consciousness. If love was the first thought, we can assume that it is a balanced energy.

78.11 Questioner: Could you elaborate please on the nature and quality of the matrix and the potentiator?
Ra: I am Ra. In the mind complex the matrix may be described as consciousness. It has been called the Magician. It is to be noted that of itself consciousness is unmoved. The potentiator of consciousness is the unconscious. This encompasses a vast realm of potential in the mind.

In the body the matrix may be seen as Balanced Working or Even Functioning. Note that here the matrix is always active with no means of being inactive. The potentiator of the body complex, then, may be called Wisdom for it is only through judgment that the unceasing activities and proclivities of the body complex may be experienced in useful modes....

The reactionary reflex is most definitely balanced in regard to body. The body is born of balance. No balance, no body.

As all things in association, or in relationship, regarding archetypes, each
is connected to the other.

81.14
Ra: I am Ra. This is less than completely correct as the Great Way of the Body must be seen, as are all the archetypes of the body, to be a mirror image of the thrust of the activity of the mind. The body is the creature of the mind and is the instrument of manifestation for the fruits of mind and spirit. Therefore, you may see the body as providing the athanor* through which the Alchemist manifests gold.

---

This is one of my problems and I apologize, as i'm a bit of a scatterbrain

This must be why I follow you so easily

[Edinburgh]

When I speak of Love in this context, I am speaking of unity. I feel emotion in that I feel more than ever that I am sharing others highs and lows. This could be a thing for just me, but that's why this is just an idea; what if millions of people are also starting to feel this way, and its making a real difference in the world? What if the strength of 4D vibrations actually determine how easily we access the ability to unify and love?

From your description, it sounds as if the feeling you described matches 'empathy' or 'compassion'. Again we come back to interpretations/ words/ subjectivity. But if it is indeed an empathatic (read loving connection to the whole/ unity) feeling you are getting a surge of, it could well be the 4D vibrations that are starting to change our 3D life.

I say this because I understand that in 4D our thoughts are not hidden from each other. This implies telepathy, which is closely related to empathy. It could be said that they are different points on the same scale.

Another approach: Jung also talked of the collective unconcious, which I equated to Ra's 'racial mind'. It seems in 4D this becomes very strong. It would be almost unthinkable to do something to harm another. This would indicate extremely high telepathy and also high empathy.

I'm glad you said that you've had more feelings of this nature. I have too. For the majority of my life, I didn't have a strong sense of empathy. Recently it's become very much more acute. A previously cavalier attitude changed dramatically in a year to a sensitive one with strong empathy. Of course the daily meditation, aya and LOO study have helped, but could it be that more 4D energy is being absorbed?

Example; in this very thread a few days ago, I made a insensitive comment out of fustration to 3DM (admittedly late at night after a 'few' beers). The next day I woke up with a feeling that I created a 'hurt' and I felt concerned; and took action immediately to correct this. My 'old me' of years past might have procastinated for days or weeks about this, if at all doing anything. The new me was driven to rectify the action by a deep urge I find it difficult to explain in words.

These feelings of love/ unity/ empathy have gone up even more in the last couple of months (personally speaking). Coincidently, the Mayan calender indicated in this 'final' stage, feelings of unity would increase. This final stage started a couple of months ago.

As Ra says, what is most important is that we know that we do not know.
(i'd imagine anyone debating LOO long enough absolutely hates that damn quote, eh? )

Haha! All I know is that I don't know, if I hate that quote