The Great Emptiness (or), the "Nothingness"

[Ming the Merciful]

Since I joined the "Law of One" I still see too much Intellectualism, (or), everybody should try another approach to understanding what it is all about. My conjecture is, has anyone ever considered not thinking about the "Law of One" intellectually, but understanding by not understanding. That is a contradiction. No it is not, (and yes it is). Everything is a contradiction. When you are studying the L/L material, have you ever considered not reading and allowing the Knowledge to flow into you, (in No Mind). The moment that we allow ourselves to become a part of the "Natural Order of Everything". By not understanding, and reflecting on the material in Still Mind, then you will understand without understanding. I am basing this from Zen and approaching it differently.

In related Threads there are simultaneous discussions on Meditation. In one Thread I stated that every action, (or inaction), should be seen as a Meditation. In the same sense, this can be applied to understanding the "Law of One". Instead of Intellectually trying to comprehend the Law of One, become a part of the "Law of One". You are already a reflection of the Law of One by the fact that you have acknowledged the fact by being a member here. Were you not attracted by your curiosity?

The "Great Emptiness" and the "Nothingness" is the all-encompassing Void that we are a part of. When we acknowledge this fact, all Knowledge is at your disposal. All you have to do is ask for it. It is that simple, and then you will understand. Basically, if you want to comprehend the "Law of One", you need to stop viewing it intellectually. When you stop looking, you will find it. Allow your "Higher Self" and "Inner Reality" to merge with the Law of One, (and the Godhead).

The Zen of no Zen.

Namaste.

[Dtris]

I agree that there is too much intellectualism. While we attempt to use our intellect to discern the truth, it cannot do so by itself. But for many people this is how the seeking starts. They will use their intellect to examine these ideas, and eventually after the intellect is found wanting, will decide to go inward in meditation and experience the creator.

[pat19989]

I very much agree Ming, experiencing reality and seeking no-mind is a much more effective way to contact our source.

“Oh emptiness, tell me about your nature, maybe I’ve been getting you wrong. I cover you with questions, cover you with explanations, cover you with music”

https://youtu.be/Zhd2Wfk6l4w

[jafar]

Since I joined the "Law of One" I still see too much Intellectualism,  (or), everybody should try another approach to understanding what it is all about. My conjecture is, has anyone ever considered not thinking about the "Law of One" intellectually, but understanding by not understanding. That is a contradiction. No it is not, (and yes it is). Everything is a contradiction. When you are studying the L/L material, have you ever considered not reading and allowing the Knowledge to flow into you, (in No Mind). The moment that we allow ourselves to become a part of the "Natural Order of Everything". By not understanding, and reflecting on the material in Still Mind, then you will understand without understanding. I am basing this from Zen and approaching it differently.

Law of One / unity is so easy to comprehend, that it doesn't need any 'intellectuality'.
All things are one, there is only identity.

The mind can only recognize things when it's shown as a contrast/contradiction.
As through contrast/contradiction the mind can define a border between something and not something.
Through contrast/contradiction the identity shall learn.

The opposite/contrast/contradiction of oneness / unity is many-ness / separation.

The more no-thing one become, the wall / border of identification will become thinner.
The thinner the wall / border of identification, the more every-thing one shall become.

When jafar is silence then it's jafar's higher self that is experiencing.
When jafar's higher self is silence then it's jafar's higher higher self that is experiencing.
And so on..

Becoming no-thing (thus every-thing) by itself is an evolutionary process, every identities is at it's own stage. Thus there is no 'standard' of too much or too little identification, thus too much or too little 'intellectuality'.
Just like a child evolves into teenage, adult and elderly.. let every identities evolves naturally at it's own phase.

[RitaJC]

Since I joined the "Law of One" I still see too much Intellectualism,  (or), everybody should try another approach to understanding what it is all about. My conjecture is, has anyone ever considered not thinking about the "Law of One" intellectually, but understanding by not understanding. That is a contradiction. No it is not, (and yes it is). Everything is a contradiction. When you are studying the L/L material, have you ever considered not reading and allowing the Knowledge to flow into you, (in No Mind). The moment that we allow ourselves to become a part of the "Natural Order of Everything". By not understanding, and reflecting on the material in Still Mind, then you will understand without understanding. I am basing this from Zen and approaching it differently.

In related Threads there are simultaneous discussions on Meditation. In one Thread I stated that every action, (or inaction), should be seen as a Meditation. In the same sense, this can be applied to understanding the "Law of One". Instead of Intellectually trying to comprehend the Law of One, become a part of the "Law of One". You are already a reflection of the Law of One by the fact that you have acknowledged the fact by being a member here. Were you not attracted by your curiosity?

The "Great Emptiness" and the "Nothingness" is the all-encompassing Void that we are a part of. When we acknowledge this fact, all Knowledge is at your disposal. All you have to do is ask for it. It is that simple, and then you will understand. Basically, if you want to comprehend the "Law of One", you need to stop viewing it intellectually. When you stop looking, you will find it. Allow your "Higher Self" and "Inner Reality" to merge with the Law of One, (and the Godhead).

The Zen of no Zen.

Namaste.

This feels so utterly true... Enough said

[Ming the Merciful]

Since I joined the "Law of One" I still see too much Intellectualism,  (or), everybody should try another approach to understanding what it is all about. My conjecture is, has anyone ever considered not thinking about the "Law of One" intellectually, but understanding by not understanding. That is a contradiction. No it is not, (and yes it is). Everything is a contradiction. When you are studying the L/L material, have you ever considered not reading and allowing the Knowledge to flow into you, (in No Mind). The moment that we allow ourselves to become a part of the "Natural Order of Everything". By not understanding, and reflecting on the material in Still Mind, then you will understand without understanding. I am basing this from Zen and approaching it differently.

In related Threads there are simultaneous discussions on Meditation. In one Thread I stated that every action, (or inaction), should be seen as a Meditation. In the same sense, this can be applied to understanding the "Law of One". Instead of Intellectually trying to comprehend the Law of One, become a part of the "Law of One". You are already a reflection of the Law of One by the fact that you have acknowledged the fact by being a member here. Were you not attracted by your curiosity?

The "Great Emptiness" and the "Nothingness" is the all-encompassing Void that we are a part of. When we acknowledge this fact, all Knowledge is at your disposal. All you have to do is ask for it. It is that simple, and then you will understand. Basically, if you want to comprehend the "Law of One", you need to stop viewing it intellectually. When you stop looking, you will find it. Allow your "Higher Self" and "Inner Reality" to merge with the Law of One, (and the Godhead).

The Zen of no Zen.

Namaste.

This feels so utterly true... Enough said

It is so true. Trying to comprehend the "Law of One" is like chasing an elusive mouse. At the moment you think you have it cornered, (and there is no escape for the mouse), You look at where it was, and then it has gone. Disappearing into the Void. There are parallels between the "Law of One" and "Zen". It is the same beast, (in different guises). How do you explain Zen. You don't, it explains itself. What is the explanation of Zen? There is no explanation, it has already explained itself. Zen knows the question before you asked it, and when you are ready to hear the reply, it is gone. The more you try to explain the Law of One, the more elusive it becomes. How do you comprehend the Law of One. Just listen.

The Law of One material is thousands of pages long. it can be explained in one sentence. AS IT IS.

Once you accept the "Natural Order of Everything", it is complete. There is no need for any other explanations.

AS IT IS.

[Ming the Merciful]

I agree that there is too much intellectualism. While we attempt to use our intellect to discern the truth, it cannot do so by itself. But for many people this is how the seeking starts. They will use their intellect to examine these ideas, and eventually after the intellect is found wanting, will decide to go inward in meditation and experience the creator.

There is nothing wrong with seeking for Truth. There must also be times when we need to listen. The Law of One has no need to explain itself intellectually. Intellectualism is Mind in the Grossest State. To comprehend the Law of One, we have to raise our Consciousness. Do you expect the Law of One to lower itself to our level of understanding?

[Ming the Merciful]

I very much agree Ming, experiencing reality and seeking no-mind is a much more effective way to contact our source.

“Oh emptiness, tell me about your nature, maybe I’ve been getting you wrong. I cover you with questions, cover you with explanations, cover you with music”

https://youtu.be/Zhd2Wfk6l4w

The "Great Emptiness" speaks for itself. The more questions you ask, the more confused you become because you are overwhelmed by Intellectualism. Let the Great Emptiness explain itself, and speak for itself. Then we must learn to listen. Simply accept that Everything is in its place, and is complete.

[Dtris]

I agree that there is too much intellectualism. While we attempt to use our intellect to discern the truth, it cannot do so by itself. But for many people this is how the seeking starts. They will use their intellect to examine these ideas, and eventually after the intellect is found wanting, will decide to go inward in meditation and experience the creator.

There is nothing wrong with seeking for Truth. There must also be times when we need to listen. The Law of One has no need to explain itself intellectually. Intellectualism is Mind in the Grossest State. To comprehend the Law of One, we have to raise our Consciousness. Do you expect the Law of One to lower itself to our level of understanding?

I cannot agree that intellect is mind in its Grossest state. While this may be your perspective coming from Zen, it is not mine coming from Qigong. The Mind has just as important a role as any other faculty of the self. Intellect is part of what defines third density, when this faculty is used in service to the creator, it can exalt the creation. When it attempts to supercede the creator and the creation, it becomes a deity upon a false dais.

[Ming the Merciful]

I agree that there is too much intellectualism. While we attempt to use our intellect to discern the truth, it cannot do so by itself. But for many people this is how the seeking starts. They will use their intellect to examine these ideas, and eventually after the intellect is found wanting, will decide to go inward in meditation and experience the creator.

There is nothing wrong with seeking for Truth. There must also be times when we need to listen. The Law of One has no need to explain itself intellectually. Intellectualism is Mind in the Grossest State. To comprehend the Law of One, we have to raise our Consciousness. Do you expect the Law of One to lower itself to our level of understanding?

I cannot agree that intellect is mind in its Grossest state. While this may be your perspective coming from Zen, it is not mine coming from Qigong. The Mind has just as important a role as any other faculty of the self. Intellect is part of what defines third density, when this faculty is used in service to the creator, it can exalt the creation. When it attempts to supercede the creator and the creation, it becomes a deity upon a false dais.

When I say that Intellectual Mind is the "Grossest State", I am comparing that with the Higher States of Consciousness. When we live our daily lives, we are living in Gross Mind. The lowest level of Self-Awareness and Self-Consciousness. As we enter Intuitive and Unconscious Mind, our states of Awareness and acknowledge The Zen, The Tao, (The Law of One). Comprehension and Understanding the Law of One does not happen in Gross Mind.

To reach Fourth Density, we must reside in a Higher State of Consciousness. Not only as individuals but Humanity as a whole. That is when we will get the Fourth Density Shift.

Zen, Qigong, it is all the same. When we recognize that all Philosophies are all from the same source, (The Law of One), interpretation is unimportant.

[greywolf]

I would say that for some improving their logic and reasoning can also improve their overall balance (violet center), whereas for others it can make them more imbalanced, it depends on the individual. It's sometimes possible to spot the areas of ones own imbalances by meditating on the qualities of the persons one is attracted to.

[Ohr Ein Sof]

I agree that there is too much intellectualism. While we attempt to use our intellect to discern the truth, it cannot do so by itself. But for many people this is how the seeking starts. They will use their intellect to examine these ideas, and eventually after the intellect is found wanting, will decide to go inward in meditation and experience the creator.

There is nothing wrong with seeking for Truth. There must also be times when we need to listen. The Law of One has no need to explain itself intellectually. Intellectualism is Mind in the Grossest State. To comprehend the Law of One, we have to raise our Consciousness. Do you expect the Law of One to lower itself to our level of understanding?

I cannot agree that intellect is mind in its Grossest state. While this may be your perspective coming from Zen, it is not mine coming from Qigong. The Mind has just as important a role as any other faculty of the self. Intellect is part of what defines third density, when this faculty is used in service to the creator, it can exalt the creation. When it attempts to supercede the creator and the creation, it becomes a deity upon a false dais.

When I say that Intellectual Mind is the "Grossest State", I am comparing that with the Higher States of Consciousness. When we live our daily lives, we are living in Gross Mind. The lowest level of Self-Awareness and Self-Consciousness. As we enter Intuitive and Unconscious Mind, our states of Awareness and acknowledge The Zen, The Tao, (The Law of One). Comprehension and Understanding the Law of One does not happen in Gross Mind.

To reach Fourth Density, we must reside in a Higher State of Consciousness. Not only as individuals but Humanity as a whole. That is when we will get the Fourth Density Shift.

Zen, Qigong, it is all the same. When we recognize that all Philosophies are all from the same source, (The Law of One), interpretation is unimportant.

You and Dtris are both correct IMHO. I feel most human beings working in consciousness will jump back and forth from the concepts you guys present and this is perfectly acceptable in 3rd density awareness. Self awareness is first and the intellect plays a decent role in self discovery but then life begins beyond that same intellect and must be surrendered or must yield to the intuitive; or what some may say as 'the real'.

[Ming the Merciful]

I agree that there is too much intellectualism. While we attempt to use our intellect to discern the truth, it cannot do so by itself. But for many people this is how the seeking starts. They will use their intellect to examine these ideas, and eventually after the intellect is found wanting, will decide to go inward in meditation and experience the creator.

There is nothing wrong with seeking for Truth. There must also be times when we need to listen. The Law of One has no need to explain itself intellectually. Intellectualism is Mind in the Grossest State. To comprehend the Law of One, we have to raise our Consciousness. Do you expect the Law of One to lower itself to our level of understanding?

I cannot agree that intellect is mind in its Grossest state. While this may be your perspective coming from Zen, it is not mine coming from Qigong. The Mind has just as important a role as any other faculty of the self. Intellect is part of what defines third density, when this faculty is used in service to the creator, it can exalt the creation. When it attempts to supercede the creator and the creation, it becomes a deity upon a false dais.

When I say that Intellectual Mind is the "Grossest State", I am comparing that with the Higher States of Consciousness. When we live our daily lives, we are living in Gross Mind. The lowest level of Self-Awareness and Self-Consciousness. As we enter Intuitive and Unconscious Mind, our states of Awareness and acknowledge The Zen, The Tao, (The Law of One). Comprehension and Understanding the Law of One does not happen in Gross Mind.

To reach Fourth Density, we must reside in a Higher State of Consciousness. Not only as individuals but Humanity as a whole. That is when we will get the Fourth Density Shift.

Zen, Qigong, it is all the same. When we recognize that all Philosophies are all from the same source, (The Law of One), interpretation is unimportant.

You and Dtris are both correct IMHO. I feel most human beings working in consciousness will jump back and forth from the concepts you guys present and this is perfectly acceptable in 3rd density awareness. Self awareness is first and the intellect plays a decent role in self discovery but then life begins beyond that same intellect and must be surrendered or must yield to the intuitive; or what some may say as 'the real'.

The starting point for any Spiritual Development begins at the lowest level of Consciousness, (Gross Mind). It is only by learning developing our understanding, do we learn the techniques of raising our Consciousness. At the current time it is the evolution from Third to Fourth Density, (for those who comprehend the concept). Looking at it from the overall perspective of the "Great Nothingness", it is nothing more than a fractional millisecond and a moment of time. When we begin to accept that the "Law of One" is an all-encompassing force, that permeates everything. Our concepts of Reality changes. It is switching from a "Gaia Mind" to the "Universal Mind". The Great Emptiness or the Nothingness cannot be pigeonholed into Human Concepts, and any Philosophical Theories become meaningless, because they cannot comprehend the Overall Whole. We only begin to comprehend when we accept that we are incapable of understanding IT. Once we acknowledge that fact, then the Understanding begins. Its not that we are trying to find the answer. The answer is there, and there is no need to see it, or understand it. It is complete, within itself.

[unity100]

Since I joined the "Law of One" I still see too much Intellectualism, (or), everybody should try another approach to understanding what it is all about. My conjecture is, has anyone ever considered not thinking about the "Law of One" intellectually, but understanding by not understanding. That is a contradiction.

There is no contradiction. Ra said that this material was intended for a specific group of people. Don's character, the nature of the material explicitly demonstrate the audience who called for this information.

...

Many of us are from countries where there arent anti-intellectualism movements like in US and the segments who subscribe to that. There is no problem with intellect or intellectualism for many of us. There is no separation in between 'the heart' (or rather, blind belief) and 'intellect' for many of us. And that such a separation exists in modern American Christian mythology is pretty baffling.

When you are studying the L/L material, have you ever considered not reading and allowing the Knowledge to flow into you, (in No Mind). The moment that we allow ourselves to become a part of the "Natural Order of Everything".

That would be not studying this particular material, but practicing an Eastern meditation methodology. It doesnt even make sense. Why would people who want to study this particular material should not study it and instead do just mindfulness meditation.

[Ming the Merciful]

Since I joined the "Law of One" I still see too much Intellectualism,  (or), everybody should try another approach to understanding what it is all about. My conjecture is, has anyone ever considered not thinking about the "Law of One" intellectually, but understanding by not understanding. That is a contradiction.

There is no contradiction. Ra said that this material was intended for a specific group of people. Don's character, the nature of the material explicitly demonstrate the audience who called for this information.

...

Many of us are from countries where there arent anti-intellectualism movements like in US and the segments who subscribe to that. There is no problem with intellect or intellectualism for many of us. There is no separation in between 'the heart' (or rather, blind belief) and 'intellect' for many of us. And that such a separation exists in modern American Christian mythology is pretty baffling.

When you are studying the L/L material, have you ever considered not reading and allowing the Knowledge to flow into you, (in No Mind). The moment that we allow ourselves to become a part of the "Natural Order of Everything".

That would be not studying this particular material, but practicing an Eastern meditation methodology. It doesnt even make sense. Why would people who want to study this particular material should not study it and instead do just mindfulness meditation.

What I am saying is. There is nothing wrong studying any form of Philosophy, but do not accept it on just an Intellectual level. Although according to Eastern Mysticism, the Mind is incapable understanding and comprehending the indefinable. Even Philosophy, (any Philosophy), has its limitations because it is only based on speculation and conjecture. Once we break the bonds of Intellectualism, and accept the "AS IT IS", (as it is), and everything is complete, then Philosophy becomes a stumbling-block, and not a step upwards. Or, in other words, accepting the "Great Emptiness" which is incomprehensible. Simply accept your place within it. The old Buddhist saying, the more that you seek something, the more it disappears. You cannot find it, simply because it does not exist in Philosophy. Even Philosophy has its limitations, (no matter what it claims).

[unity100]

What I am saying is. There is nothing wrong studying any form of Philosophy, but do not accept it on just an Intellectual level.

Why should people here be accepting it only at an intellectual level. People are talking on aspects of the material that requires intellectual understanding. When you are talking about the intellectual side of things, you talk in an intellectual manner. That's the proper way.

Although according to Eastern Mysticism, the Mind is incapable understanding and comprehending the indefinable.

The bold is the keyword there. Its mysticism, it avoids understanding and it leaves things to obscurantism.

And they are wrong - the only thing which is impossible to understand with any level of mind activity is infinity. Because it needs to be infinite in every aspect, there is no way to differentiate it, therefore to define it. Which makes understanding it not possible.

Anything other than that can be understood with a mind that is at a sufficient level/density to understand that particular thing. With every density, the mind complex must also evolve and graduate, all the way until intelligent infinity, which is the original mind itself. Which means that minds nearing the level of intelligent infinity and the mind that is the intelligent infinity can very well understand itself as it is.

Same goes for every other density. Any mind can understand to the extent of what it is capable of understanding.

Once we break the bonds of Intellectualism, and accept the "AS IT IS", (as it is), and everything is complete,

There is no relevance in accepting things as it is and the mind/intellect. Or intellectualism. Leaving aside there isnt one single actual person who has been proven to have become 'complete'.

Even those who 'break the bonds of intellectualism' still use their minds in choosing their way going back home after meditation, not eating rotten food, remembering to make their bed after waking up. Usage of mind never stops, because it is an integral part of existence and without it - well, you cant exist in this universe in any way.

Or, in other words, accepting the "Great Emptiness" which is incomprehensible. Simply accept your place within it.

The act of accepting a certain place inside something also involves understanding that thing and your place. So the above proposition betrays itself.

The old Buddhist saying, the more that you seek something, the more it disappears.

Something being old or pertaining to a particular thought or philosophy that was practiced for a long time does not make that thing true in any way.

The material we are studying explicitly says in various places that seeking is needed for spiritual development. And those who dont seek, dont find anything.

[Sacred Fool]

Once we break the bonds of Intellectualism, and accept the "AS IT IS", (as it is), and everything is complete,

There is no relevance in accepting things as it is and the mind/intellect. Or intellectualism. Leaving aside there isnt one single actual person who has been proven to have become 'complete'.

Even those who 'break the bonds of intellectualism' still use their minds in choosing their way going back home after meditation, not eating rotten food, remembering to make their bed after waking up. Usage of mind never stops, because it is an integral part of existence and without it - well, you cant exist in this universe in any way.

 
 
This would be a third perspective.  From
https://llresearch.org/transcripts/issue...303_2.aspx

Entities over-value the intellect because it seems to the intellect that one has only the intellect with which to analyze situations. In the strict sense of analysis and linear thinking, this is so. Yet by depending upon that analytical ability, the attention is drawn from the true intelligence of the self, the true seat of wisdom, which is the mercy seat of purified emotion.

 
This statement is not easily understood.....by the intellect.
  

[Ming the Merciful]

Once we break the bonds of Intellectualism, and accept the "AS IT IS", (as it is), and everything is complete,

There is no relevance in accepting things as it is and the mind/intellect. Or intellectualism. Leaving aside there isnt one single actual person who has been proven to have become 'complete'.

Even those who 'break the bonds of intellectualism' still use their minds in choosing their way going back home after meditation, not eating rotten food, remembering to make their bed after waking up. Usage of mind never stops, because it is an integral part of existence and without it - well, you cant exist in this universe in any way.

 
 
This would be a third perspective.  From
https://llresearch.org/transcripts/issue...303_2.aspx

Entities over-value the intellect because it seems to the intellect that one has only the intellect with which to analyze situations. In the strict sense of analysis and linear thinking, this is so. Yet by depending upon that analytical ability, the attention is drawn from the true intelligence of the self, the true seat of wisdom, which is the mercy seat of purified emotion.

 
This statement is not easily understood.....by the intellect.
  

Spirituality is not experienced on the Intellectual level. When we have a Spiritual experience, it is raising the Consciousness. We have all experienced a "High" whenever we have discovered something profound. We have transcended the Intellect in the experience. Enlightenment cannot happen on an Intellectual level and happens in a Higher Conscious State, (which we are all yet to discover). By accepting the "Great Emptiness", we are admitting our ignorance on the Intellectual level. Once we accept that the True Spirituality is incomprehensible, then we have acknowledged "It's" True Spiritual State.

[Patrick]

There is perhaps also a different type of intellectual mind available to us in higher densities and in time/space. Since the veil only exists in 3d space/time. It's possible that at any other levels the intellect is melded with the heart without effort or paradox.

[Sacred Fool]

There is perhaps also a different type of intellectual mind available to us in higher densities and in time/space. Since the veil only exists in 3d space/time. It's possible that at any other levels the intellect is melded with the heart without effort or paradox.

 
There can be some generalized benefit in saying that the intellect begins and ends here or there, but it surely is an over simplification of the larger picture.

30.2 Questioner: Thank you. Would you define mind, body, and spirit separately?

Ra: I am Ra. These terms are all simplistic descriptive terms which equal a complex of energy focuses; the body, as you call it, being the material of the density which you experience at a given space/time or time/space; this complex of materials being available for distortions of what you would call physical manifestation.

The mind is a complex which reflects the inpourings of the spirit and the up-pourings of the body complex. It contains what you know as feelings, emotions, and intellectual thoughts in its more conscious complexities. Moving further down the tree of mind we see the intuition which is of the nature of the mind more in contact or in tune with the total beingness complex. Moving down to the roots of mind we find the progression of consciousness which gradually turns from the personal to the racial memory, to the cosmic influxes, and thus becomes a direct contactor of that shuttle which we call the spirit complex.

This spirit complex is the channel whereby the inpourings from all of the various universal, planetary, and personal inpourings may be funneled into the roots of consciousness and whereby consciousness may be funneled to the gateway of intelligent infinity through the balanced intelligent energy of body and mind.

You will see by this series of definitive statements that mind, body, and spirit are inextricably intertwined and cannot continue, one without the other. Thus we refer to the mind/body/spirit complex rather than attempting to deal with them separately, for the work, shall we say, that you do during your experiences is done through the interaction of these three components, not through any one.

 

[Dtris]

There is perhaps also a different type of intellectual mind available to us in higher densities and in time/space. Since the veil only exists in 3d space/time. It's possible that at any other levels the intellect is melded with the heart without effort or paradox.

 
There can be some generalized benefit in saying that the intellect begins and ends here or there, but it surely is an over simplification of the larger picture.

30.2 Questioner: Thank you. Would you define mind, body, and spirit separately?

Ra: I am Ra. These terms are all simplistic descriptive terms which equal a complex of energy focuses; the body, as you call it, being the material of the density which you experience at a given space/time or time/space; this complex of materials being available for distortions of what you would call physical manifestation.

The mind is a complex which reflects the inpourings of the spirit and the up-pourings of the body complex. It contains what you know as feelings, emotions, and intellectual thoughts in its more conscious complexities. Moving further down the tree of mind we see the intuition which is of the nature of the mind more in contact or in tune with the total beingness complex. Moving down to the roots of mind we find the progression of consciousness which gradually turns from the personal to the racial memory, to the cosmic influxes, and thus becomes a direct contactor of that shuttle which we call the spirit complex.

This spirit complex is the channel whereby the inpourings from all of the various universal, planetary, and personal inpourings may be funneled into the roots of consciousness and whereby consciousness may be funneled to the gateway of intelligent infinity through the balanced intelligent energy of body and mind.

You will see by this series of definitive statements that mind, body, and spirit are inextricably intertwined and cannot continue, one without the other. Thus we refer to the mind/body/spirit complex rather than attempting to deal with them separately, for the work, shall we say, that you do during your experiences is done through the interaction of these three components, not through any one.

 

Great quote. This is why I love the Ra material. All parts of the self are important and we are a complete being striving to be more and more complete.

While there is truth that people think too much, and intellectualize too much, it is also possible to not think enough. Everyone has their own proclivities and preferred methods of being and seeking. There is a role to be played by the intellect as well as the intuition and emotions, and every other facet of self. A method that works great for one person may not work great for someone else, and we should seek to not be dogmatic about the "correct" way to go about seeking.

This isn't to say that there aren't specific methods and correct and incorrect ways of doing them, but that separate methods will fit everyone differently.

[Patrick]

It's the result that matters. Methods for reaching the result are varied.

[Sacred Fool]

There is a role to be played by the intellect as well as the intuition and emotions, and every other facet of self.

 
Yes, and the Confederation's suggestion is that one begin on the surface, then move deeper into the mysteries of self.  This is laid out in the Ra quote above, but the general progression of spiritual exploration is not so obvious to us because it is unseen.

https://llresearch.org/transcripts/issue..._0816.aspx
 

The workings of the heart are not seen. The self-acceptance or lack of it is not seen. The love or hunger for love in relationships is not seen. Circumstances only are seen. There is, my friends, a reason for this. The design is to so baffle, frustrate and confuse the intellect with all the data of the senses that the student will be forced to move the center of investigatory energy from the intellectual mind, which is a creature of this illusion only, to the wisdom of the deep mind, which is vastly more informed and which resides in what you would call the heart energy center. This center is the gateway center wherein, when the lower energies have been cleared, the gate becomes opened so that you can effectively focus the heart’s wisdom upon the situation you wish balanced within you.

 
 

[Patrick]

I think the "wisdom of the deep mind" is what I intuit exists as a different mind, but the word intellectual is the part I was confused about. "reasoning and understanding objectively" might not be so useful outside our current illusion. Maybe because, from that vantage point, it is evident that there is no objectivity. So then no need to understand objectively.

In our illusion it does not seem logical to seek the keys to unknowing. But it's possible that outside the illusion things are not logical. In the sense that it does not need to make sense.

[Ming the Merciful]

I think the "wisdom of the deep mind" is what I intuit exists as a different mind, but the word intellectual is the part I was confused about. "reasoning and understanding objectively" might not be so useful outside our current illusion. Maybe because, from that vantage point, it is evident that there is no objectivity. So then no need to understand objectively.

In our illusion it does not seem logical to seek the keys to unknowing. But it's possible that outside the illusion things are not logical. In the sense that it does not need to make sense.

Once we accept that Spirituality is something incomprehensible, (and unknowable). The "Natural Order of Everything", then there is no need to try and understand it. As Humanity, our goal is Enlightenment and perhaps a comprehension of Spirituality beyond something that we can imagine. Meanwhile, if that was observed from the Fourth, Fifth, Twenty-Third, One Hundredth Density, then perhaps the illusory Enlightenment is nothing more than a gold star in Grade School. Everything is relative and illusionary. For somebody living in the Sixth Density, we are still playing with child playthings and almost primordial in our understanding.

When we begin to accept the Natural Order of Everything, and the "Great Emptiness", there is no need for Intellectual understanding. If we go searching for "IT", IT will always be elusive and becomes more distant. After we stop searching, "IT" appears naturally, (without understanding).

[Sacred Fool]

Once we accept that Spirituality is something incomprehensible, (and unknowable). The "Natural Order of Everything", then there is no need to try and understand it. As Humanity, our goal is Enlightenment and perhaps a comprehension of Spirituality beyond something that we can imagine.

 
"Enlightenment" is not a very descriptive word.  The Confederation, model of the developement of consciousness I find far more useful.  As articulated in the quotes above, it's an unending journey of discovery of deeper experiences of consciousness.  Understanding obviously does play a part in this because as one progresses into previously unknown zones of being, one must learn to adapt. 

The distinction between intellect and this broader understanding is that the intellect tells you how many, how long, how this and how that to assist in navigating this particular illusion.  Deeper elements of mind (compared to intellect) are needed to understand the deeper levels of self.  This is tricky: all the components are available, but the instruction manual is written in an cryptic format.

The design is to so baffle, frustrate and confuse the intellect with all the data of the senses that the student will be forced to move the center of investigatory energy from the intellectual mind, which is a creature of this illusion only, to the wisdom of the deep mind, which is vastly more informed and which resides in what you would call the heart energy center.

  

[Dtris]

I think the "wisdom of the deep mind" is what I intuit exists as a different mind, but the word intellectual is the part I was confused about. "reasoning and understanding objectively" might not be so useful outside our current illusion. Maybe because, from that vantage point, it is evident that there is no objectivity. So then no need to understand objectively.

In our illusion it does not seem logical to seek the keys to unknowing. But it's possible that outside the illusion things are not logical. In the sense that it does not need to make sense.

The 5th Density is the density of Wisdom. Which would deal with how the creation is put together and functioning. My personal opinion is that many of today's scientists are 5th density wanderers. While the intellect may be unable to understand the creation in 3rd density, that does not mean it cannot in 5th density. Or at least get more of it.

[Ming the Merciful]

Once we accept that Spirituality is something incomprehensible, (and unknowable). The "Natural Order of Everything", then there is no need to try and understand it. As Humanity, our goal is Enlightenment and perhaps a comprehension of Spirituality beyond something that we can imagine.

 
"Enlightenment" is not a very descriptive word.  The Confederation, model of the developement of consciousness I find far more useful.  As articulated in the quotes above, it's an unending journey of discovery of deeper experiences of consciousness.  Understanding obviously does play a part in this because as one progresses into previously unknown zones of being, one must learn to adapt. 

The distinction between intellect and this broader understanding is that the intellect tells you how many, how long, how this and how that to assist in navigating this particular illusion.  Deeper elements of mind (compared to intellect) are needed to understand the deeper levels of self.  This is tricky: all the components are available, but the instruction manual is written in an cryptic format.

The design is to so baffle, frustrate and confuse the intellect with all the data of the senses that the student will be forced to move the center of investigatory energy from the intellectual mind, which is a creature of this illusion only, to the wisdom of the deep mind, which is vastly more informed and which resides in what you would call the heart energy center.

  

Language is part of the problem, and word description and interpretation. What is language, what is sound? Gross vibration frequency. Do you see where this is leading? The higher the Spirituality, the higher the vibration. We are even discussing this on a gross vibrational level. That is why language is useless as a medium, because the "Great Emptiness" is beyond language.

[Ming the Merciful]

I think the "wisdom of the deep mind" is what I intuit exists as a different mind, but the word intellectual is the part I was confused about. "reasoning and understanding objectively" might not be so useful outside our current illusion. Maybe because, from that vantage point, it is evident that there is no objectivity. So then no need to understand objectively.

In our illusion it does not seem logical to seek the keys to unknowing. But it's possible that outside the illusion things are not logical. In the sense that it does not need to make sense.

The 5th Density is the density of Wisdom. Which would deal with how the creation is put together and functioning. My personal opinion is that many of today's scientists are 5th density wanderers. While the intellect may be unable to understand the creation in 3rd density, that does not mean it cannot in 5th density. Or at least get more of it.

Even the interpretation of "Creation" is to be questioned. Not that I am not saying there was not some form of Creation, (in so many words). If you accept the "Great Emptiness", (and the AS IT IS), then if Everything has always existed, (Before Creation), and then Creation itself becomes only another cycle. The inbreath and the outbreath of Brahma. Again, observation "Outside the Box". Logically illogical. Then Spiritualty is illogical.

AS IT IS.

[Patrick]

Spirituality is illogical. At least in 3d. It requires blind faith to have any value to the entity it seems.