Depression and Accepting or Resisting Futility

[Ymarsakar]

If you want something to do, very well.

But i wont spell it out exactly here. You can ask your internal guidance on this, but i will send something. By something i mean a quest or opportunity. Afaik, you want something more concrete and powerful, perhaps with the current work you have already done.

I will push that up my chain. We will see what we see. I wont know what it is before hand either.

[EvolvingPhoenix]

Thanks man. I appreciate that. Guess I should be on the lookout for said opportunity huh? Or quest, whatever it is. Is it something that will happen in the 3D? Just curious.

[Ymarsakar]

Yes. It will drop in out of no wwhere almost. I got it a few times in my life.

[EvolvingPhoenix]

Ia there some way I'll be able to recognize it?

[Ymarsakar]

I would get a feeling like this was what i asked for. Others may get different confirms

Only at the end will you know for sure

[EvolvingPhoenix]

Okay gotcha. Thanks.

[KaliSouth]

So I was watching this video and it resonated HARD:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGorABGw418

I've been fighting so much futility in my life: Romantic futility, social futility, familial futility. So much futility. And I've been holding out hope against all hope that I can change my situations for the better.

Some things I've given up on and accepted the futility of, like the fact that I'll never have a REAL relationship with my mother. Some things, I struggle to accept, like the fact that I will never reconcile with my ex-friend. I've been hoping against all hope that some way, somehow I could change things with that friend for some time now.

Some things just FEEL futile, like getting my social and romantic needs met. I feel so much futility in my life, and I have never been one to accept defeat. Except with my mom ever changing. I gave up on that a long time ago.

I dunno what to do. Even after all the tips she gave, I still feel like there's not much I can do to create the life I want. And what's sad is suicide is futile too. I honestly believe if I commit suicide, I'll just have to reincarnate and my life will be programmed to deal with the same issues, without the benefit of any of the knowledge or tools I've acquired in this lifetime.I feel so stuck. And I don't know how to get out.

EP, don't feel like you cannot. I've been in the same place, for many years, in fact. It was the catalyst that pushed me into the spiritual world.

It's taken me years of spiritual work with many periods where I lapsed back into the same emotions, but things can change. A good therapist and devoted spiritual practice can help you change your life. Find those things in the spiritual world that resonate with you. They will change you inside even if you're not trying too hard.

[EvolvingPhoenix]

Okay, thanks for the advice. Keep in mind it's been a while since I wrote that, and nowadays I am in a significantly better headspace than I was at that time. But your empathy and care are appreciated.

[Dtris]

Okay, thanks for the advice. Keep in mind it's been a while since I wrote that, and nowadays I am in a significantly better headspace than I was at that time. But your empathy and care are appreciated.

Glad to hear you are doing better. I didn't realize this was a resurrected thread at first and was worried.

There is a Jewish psychologist who survived Auschwitz who created logotherapy. I am wanting to read hos books but haven't had the chance yet. However I was listening to a local radio show and they brought up his view of depression. Which he said is caused by not living in alignment with your true self. I am sure there is more to it than that. But that quote really struck me.

Be well brother, I know you will go far on this journey.

[sillypumpkins]

Okay, thanks for the advice. Keep in mind it's been a while since I wrote that, and nowadays I am in a significantly better headspace than I was at that time. But your empathy and care are appreciated.

Glad to hear you are doing better. I didn't realize this was a resurrected thread at first and was worried.

There is a Jewish psychologist who survived Auschwitz who created logotherapy. I am wanting to read hos books but haven't had the chance yet. However I was listening to a local radio show and they brought up his view of depression. Which he said is caused by not living in alignment with your true self. I am sure there is more to it than that. But that quote really struck me.

Be well brother, I know you will go far on this journey.

just bought his book "mans search for meaning"..... thank you dtris

[Dtris]

Was reading yesterday night and came across this and immediately thought I should add it to this thread.

Questioner: Not on that particular subject. But I do have something that is troubling me, it has been for the last few weeks. I’ve been experiencing periods of depression, and periods of inability to interact in anything near a harmonious way to the people around me. I know I’ve not been following a rigorous program of meditation. At times I’ve let it slip altogether. But, here this last week when I did attempt to sit and meditate, I’ve come out of it feeling tired, and in a worse frame of mind than when I sat down to begin. I know, that of late, I’ve been shutting myself off quite frequently, as if something inside is slowly rebelling, at least momentarily rebelling against an influx of outside stimulus, and not until today have I experienced any form of inner peace. I’d like, if you will say some words on my mistakes in my current meditations, and if you would say a few words on dealing with that state of mind we refer to as depression.

I am Latwii, and I am aware of your question, my brother. First of all, may we say that in truth there can be no mistakes, for this illusion you find yourself within, each of you, is an experience which has the purpose of teaching. Each of you, in some way, seeks to learn the lessons of love. These lessons, in the particular case of which you now speak, concern learning to love the self. Learning to accept the self, as the self is and expresses daily. Learning to forgive the self, for that which is felt to be less than desired. The state of mind which you call depression is simply the realization consciously, [that] the self has not been accepted.

Again we say, there are no mistakes. You have each moment that you experience in your daily round of activities an opportunity to see yourself in many reflections, to see yourself [in] the faces of those you meet. To see yourself in the activity which you undertake. To see yourself within your own mind and your own heart. To accept yourself, to love yourself, to know that at the core of your being lies perfection, lies the creation, lies the infinite love and light that binds all of creation. You have presented to you, with each waking moment, an infinite array of opportunities to see this unity of self evolve. In order to see that unity, it is most frequently necessary to first be presented with the illusion of separateness, the illusion of the self which is not perfect, the illusion of the self which is filled with mistakes, and the illusion of the feeling and inability to accept the self.


To learn the lesson most fully, to drive it the deepest within the heart of your being, it is necessary first to experience the opposite of what is true, the illusion of imperfection of separateness. In your meditations, attempt then to see the perfection of being, attempt to see how each opportunity you have encountered, each thought of a depressing nature you have welcomed, has presented you an opportunity both ways, as imperfect and as perfect. See the choices that you have made, and (inaudible) have been swayed towards the imperfect; see then the opportunity for the perfection. For does not each opportunity teach? Have you not noticed each opportunity’s lessons? Indeed, you have. For you have noted your own failures, as you call them. But look at them in another light.

Have they not shown you the depth of your being, the range of your feelings? The possibilities of your learning? To be alive and aware in your illusion is a state of mind and perception which few among your people enjoy. For they have been, shall we say, deadened to the world about them, and the world within them. Therefore, rejoice in the feelings which surge within your being, and see therefore the other side of the illusion which is the truth of your own perfection, your oneness, and the love/light that dwells with you. Attempt then, in your waking hours to continue the feeling you develop in your meditations so that a new light is shed on the experiences which you encounter. Do not forget you can have it an illusion. Do not forget it has but one purpose, to teach that you are whole, and perfect, acceptable, and loved.

[sillypumpkins]

love that quote dtris, thank you for sharing. that one helped me to see my experience with depression as something that is more a "call for reflection" rather than an affliction I must deal with

[Sacred Fool]

 
Wonderful quotation above, Dtris.  But it brings up a challenge which, it seems to this observer, you have now taken on the responsibility to solve.

In order to dive into the heart of your being and accept yourself in all your imperfections, you need to have access to your own green ray energy, right?  Isn't it the radiance of the heart's love which transmutes sorrow into love?

Well, if you are seeking on such a level that all you can see are your own shortcomings and failures, then you are seeking--if you will--below the waterline, below the level where you can breathe in that fresh air of self-love, self-acceptance and appreciation for all that is.

So, how can one unite with the heart's love while one is still underwater?  As stated above, this seems to be a crucial inherent challenge here, don't you think?
    

Therefore, rejoice in the feelings which surge within your being, and see therefore the other side of the illusion which is the truth of your own perfection, your oneness, and the love/light that dwells with you. Attempt then, in your waking hours to continue the feeling you develop in your meditations so that a new light is shed on the experiences which you encounter. Do not forget you can have it an illusion. Do not forget it has but one purpose, to teach that you are whole, and perfect, acceptable, and loved.

How can one tune into the part of self which knows its own perfection when one is not seeking on that level?

   

[sillypumpkins]

as always great questions fool. really got me thinking.

the only thing that I don't quite get is...

In order to dive into the heart of your being and accept yourself in all your imperfections, you need to have access to your own green ray energy, right?  Isn't it the radiance of the heart's love which transmutes sorrow into love?

speaking from personal experience, the more open my heart has become, the more sorrow I have felt. not even "more" sorrow, necessarily, however its no longer a dull feeling like it used to be. the experience of sorrow for me has become much more acute as my heart has opened. ive taken to calling it "divine sadness". i often feel i am providing a service when i allow myself to feel this so..... I do wonder some times.

anyways I might be missing your point here. or might be conflating it too much

[Sacred Fool]

speaking from personal experience, the more open my heart has become, the more sorrow I have felt. not even "more" sorrow, necessarily, however its no longer a dull feeling like it used to be. the experience of sorrow for me has become much more acute as my heart has opened. ive taken to calling it "divine sadness". i often  feel i am providing a service when i allow myself to feel this so..... I do wonder some times.

 
I understand your feelings there.  For me, the heart is a much more complex level of consciousness than those which precede it.  The different parts are not connected in a linear fashion.  They come on line in different ways and can lead to different places.

One aspect of this can be a keener feeling for things (or a keener awareness of your existing feelings) in general, and if sorrow has been something you've been collecting, then your collection will become more vivid to you.

In addition to the general matter of emotions becoming deeper, there's another place in that heartscape where the general sense of self is felt as a glowing thing, not yet inflected by human foibles and complexities.  It is very easy to forgive and accept self there.

There's also a sort of place where one can hold and accept the full range of feeling one is heir to, such as Latwii mentioned.  But where we often do our seeking (at lower levels of consciousness), these places are unavailable. 

To return to your example, when feeling deep heart-felt sorrow, we often don't remain at the level of heart consciousness.  The more one can maintain the seeking at the level of green ray consciousness, the more opportunities there are to find spiritual resources to work with.  But we often take things personally and begin focusing on difficult social or personal aspects of sorrow. 

So, if you feel sorrow in your heart, talk to it, ask it what is so sad?  This may lead you to another thing and then another.  If you can maintain the search there in your heart, you will likely begin to find spiritual resources which can aid you in your seeking.

How can one tune into the part of self which knows its own perfection when one is not seeking on that level?

That's one way of answering the question I posed above.  Don't let the level of seeking drop into the lower levels of consciousness before you find your spiritual, heart-domain resources.

Do not forget it (the illusion) has but one purpose, to teach that you are whole, and perfect, acceptable, and loved.

  

[Ymarsakar]

Good stuff and good work

[sillypumpkins]

thank you fool!!!!

[Dtris]

 
Wonderful quotation above, Dtris.  But it brings up a challenge which, it seems to this observer, you have now taken on the responsibility to solve.

In order to dive into the heart of your being and accept yourself in all your imperfections, you need to have access to your own green ray energy, right?  Isn't it the radiance of the heart's love which transmutes sorrow into love?

Well, if you are seeking on such a level that all you can see are your own shortcomings and failures, then you are seeking--if you will--below the waterline, below the level where you can breathe in that fresh air of self-love, self-acceptance and appreciation for all that is.

So, how can one unite with the heart's love while one is still underwater?  As stated above, this seems to be a crucial inherent challenge here, don't you think?
    

Therefore, rejoice in the feelings which surge within your being, and see therefore the other side of the illusion which is the truth of your own perfection, your oneness, and the love/light that dwells with you. Attempt then, in your waking hours to continue the feeling you develop in your meditations so that a new light is shed on the experiences which you encounter. Do not forget you can have it an illusion. Do not forget it has but one purpose, to teach that you are whole, and perfect, acceptable, and loved.

How can one tune into the part of self which knows its own perfection when one is not seeking on that level?

I would postulate that the very root of prolonged depression which is so often experienced in today's world has at the root an opening of the green ray. When confronted with deficiencies of the self each individual has two choices, either to accept the shortcoming as they currently exist and strive to do better while loving the self in this moment, or to control the faculties of the self to the greatest extent possible to realign the self to an acceptable configuration.

The former requires green ray activity, the latter does not. Both will resolve the depression.

The level one is seeking on will always be slightly different than others. When one recognizes their shortcomings, typically the ego rationalizes the failures to abdicate responsibility. Those who are mired in depression often feel that the world has beaten them down and that nothing they do matters.

What attenuates this is the realization that each individual is responsible for their own state of being and even though you are flawed, you are still perfect. The flaws are exactly what you need to experience to progress along your chosen path.

The crux is to ignore the water, allow yourself to drown, and rejoice in the fact that you can feel so intensely, then accept all that you are as it as in this moment, which allows the opportunity to become more in each successive moment.

[meadow-foreigner]

Rationalized (and often idealized) expectations take mental space.

An overwhelmed and defenseless mind may acquiesce to externalities.

Be this acquiescence not founded on the individual's volition, the frustration that comes from it may beget depression due to a belief of an inability to change.

The aforementioned frustration may beget anxiety due to a belief in an ability to change.

The acceptance that is often said amongst spiritual groups is simply the relinquishing of a rigid belief system.

To only accept is useless because it is inertial.

There is a necessity of clarity to propel oneself towards any given referential.

Such movement is limited by the current rules of the marketplace. Some people do not feel fulfilled by the game's layout.

They can then add to the world, or simply process it.

Higher frequency levels beget more quality substances brought forth to the world, as long as the people actually want to do it out of their own volition, instead of due to externalities.

[Sacred Fool]

Higher frequency levels beget more quality substances brought forth to the world, as long as the people actually want to do it out of their own volition, instead of due to externalities.

Yes, and if one can engage the difficulties at the level of the heart, one has more resources with which to find resolution.  However, this can only happen, of course, at times when one is not disabled by being sucked into the swamp of personal and social fears.  It is difficult ground to tread, to be sure!
   

[EvolvingPhoenix]

Was reading yesterday night and came across this and immediately thought I should add it to this thread.

Questioner: Not on that particular subject. But I do have something that is troubling me, it has been for the last few weeks. I’ve been experiencing periods of depression, and periods of inability to interact in anything near a harmonious way to the people around me. I know I’ve not been following a rigorous program of meditation. At times I’ve let it slip altogether. But, here this last week when I did attempt to sit and meditate, I’ve come out of it feeling tired, and in a worse frame of mind than when I sat down to begin. I know, that of late, I’ve been shutting myself off quite frequently, as if something inside is slowly rebelling, at least momentarily rebelling against an influx of outside stimulus, and not until today have I experienced any form of inner peace. I’d like, if you will say some words on my mistakes in my current meditations, and if you would say a few words on dealing with that state of mind we refer to as depression.

I am Latwii, and I am aware of your question, my brother. First of all, may we say that in truth there can be no mistakes, for this illusion you find yourself within, each of you, is an experience which has the purpose of teaching. Each of you, in some way, seeks to learn the lessons of love. These lessons, in the particular case of which you now speak, concern learning to love the self. Learning to accept the self, as the self is and expresses daily. Learning to forgive the self, for that which is felt to be less than desired. The state of mind which you call depression is simply the realization consciously, [that] the self has not been accepted.

Again we say, there are no mistakes. You have each moment that you experience in your daily round of activities an opportunity to see yourself in many reflections, to see yourself [in] the faces of those you meet. To see yourself in the activity which you undertake. To see yourself within your own mind and your own heart. To accept yourself, to love yourself, to know that at the core of your being lies perfection, lies the creation, lies the infinite love and light that binds all of creation. You have presented to you, with each waking moment, an infinite array of opportunities to see this unity of self evolve. In order to see that unity, it is most frequently necessary to first be presented with the illusion of separateness, the illusion of the self which is not perfect, the illusion of the self which is filled with mistakes, and the illusion of the feeling and inability to accept the self.


To learn the lesson most fully, to drive it the deepest within the heart of your being, it is necessary first to experience the opposite of what is true, the illusion of imperfection of separateness. In your meditations, attempt then to see the perfection of being, attempt to see how each opportunity you have encountered, each thought of a depressing nature you have welcomed, has presented you an opportunity both ways, as imperfect and as perfect. See the choices that you have made, and (inaudible) have been swayed towards the imperfect; see then the opportunity for the perfection. For does not each opportunity teach? Have you not noticed each opportunity’s lessons? Indeed, you have. For you have noted your own failures, as you call them. But look at them in another light.

Have they not shown you the depth of your being, the range of your feelings? The possibilities of your learning? To be alive and aware in your illusion is a state of mind and perception which few among your people enjoy. For they have been, shall we say, deadened to the world about them, and the world within them. Therefore, rejoice in the feelings which surge within your being, and see therefore the other side of the illusion which is the truth of your own perfection, your oneness, and the love/light that dwells with you. Attempt then, in your waking hours to continue the feeling you develop in your meditations so that a new light is shed on the experiences which you encounter. Do not forget you can have it an illusion. Do not forget it has but one purpose, to teach that you are whole, and perfect, acceptable, and loved.

It doesn't resonate. I mean, maybe it's true, but I just don't feel it. It just sounds like meaningless positive bullshit. I know it's not, but that's just all it sounds like to me. None of this really gets me out of the feeling of disappointment. It just doesn't resonate. I dunno, maybe I just haven't reached that point yet. Thanks though for sharing. I am re-reading it and re-re-reading it to absorb it, but... nothing so far. Thanks though for sharing.

[EvolvingPhoenix]

 
Wonderful quotation above, Dtris.  But it brings up a challenge which, it seems to this observer, you have now taken on the responsibility to solve.

In order to dive into the heart of your being and accept yourself in all your imperfections, you need to have access to your own green ray energy, right?  Isn't it the radiance of the heart's love which transmutes sorrow into love?

Well, if you are seeking on such a level that all you can see are your own shortcomings and failures, then you are seeking--if you will--below the waterline, below the level where you can breathe in that fresh air of self-love, self-acceptance and appreciation for all that is.

So, how can one unite with the heart's love while one is still underwater?  As stated above, this seems to be a crucial inherent challenge here, don't you think?
    

Therefore, rejoice in the feelings which surge within your being, and see therefore the other side of the illusion which is the truth of your own perfection, your oneness, and the love/light that dwells with you. Attempt then, in your waking hours to continue the feeling you develop in your meditations so that a new light is shed on the experiences which you encounter. Do not forget you can have it an illusion. Do not forget it has but one purpose, to teach that you are whole, and perfect, acceptable, and loved.

How can one tune into the part of self which knows its own perfection when one is not seeking on that level?

I would postulate that the very root of prolonged depression which is so often experienced in today's world has at the root an opening of the green ray. When confronted with deficiencies of the self each individual has two choices, either to accept the shortcoming as they currently exist and strive to do better while loving the self in this moment, or to control the faculties of the self to the greatest extent possible to realign the self to an acceptable configuration.

The former requires green ray activity, the latter does not. Both will resolve the depression.

The level one is seeking on will always be slightly different than others. When one recognizes their shortcomings, typically the ego rationalizes the failures to abdicate responsibility. Those who are mired in depression often feel that the world has beaten them down and that nothing they do matters.

What attenuates this is the realization that each individual is responsible for their own state of being and even though you are flawed, you are still perfect. The flaws are exactly what you need to experience to progress along your chosen path.

The crux is to ignore the water, allow yourself to drown, and rejoice in the fact that you can feel so intensely, then accept all that you are as it as in this moment, which allows the opportunity to become more in each successive moment.

This explains it in a more down-to-Earth, concrete, relatable way, I guess. Thanks Dtris!

[Ymarsakar]

Depression is like when you are playing a perma death game and suddenly the avatar stops doing what you tell it to, and you end up dying or getting set back a level or losing a big chunk of progress.

In other words, there is a disconnect or lag between the avatar (human ego) and the player (spirit). Lag is latency, a mistiming or delay between inputting commands and those commands being received and carried out.

[EvolvingPhoenix]

Depression is like when you are playing a perma death game and suddenly the avatar stops doing what you tell it to, and you end up dying or getting set back a level or losing a big chunk of progress.

In other words, there is a disconnect or lag between the avatar (human ego) and the player (spirit). Lag is latency, a mistiming or delay between inputting commands and those commands being received and carried out.

Huh?

[EvolvingPhoenix]

I think depression is just feelings you don't wanna feel, so you numb yourself and feel nothing. I'm sick of feeling the same painful s*** over and over again, so all I feel right now is disappointment.

[Dtris]

I think depression is just feelings you don't wanna feel, so you numb yourself and feel nothing. I'm sick of feeling the same painful s*** over and over again, so all I feel right now is disappointment.

Yup. When you always feel like crap, or feel hurt, inadequate, at fault, weak, or any other number of emotions without end, then you become numb.

Depression is the ironic simultaneity of being numb while feeling too much.

The only way out is thru. You have to let yourself feel what you are avoiding and really work on yourself at a deeper level then most people even know is possible. Your emotions have momentum as well, this momentum can be overcome.

I don't have time to go into it right now since I am at work, but I think I will write a new post about the dark night of the soul, maybe this weekend but I want to refresh some concepts so I can do the subject justice.

[Patrick]

...It just sounds like meaningless positive bullshit...

I think depression is just feelings you don't wanna feel, so you numb yourself and feel nothing. I'm sick of feeling the same painful s*** over and over again, so all I feel right now is disappointment.

This is probably just going to sound like more meaningless positive bs, but I'll put it out there anyway, just in case...

http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/is..._0316.aspx

...The suffering, the questioning, the doubting, the pain, and the suffering and agony of all that you experience is for one thing: to hollow you and to focus that emptiness so that it is ready to receive. For those upon the service-to-others path, those to whom we wish to speak, what is being received is infinite love and as it flows through you into a channel that you have cleared it radiates into all of your Earth world. It is for this that you came...

[Ymarsakar]

With a hollow core and human identity and emotions losing effect, it becomes easier to fill the life with other emotions and intent.

[flofrog]

What attenuates this is the realization that each individual is responsible for their own state of being and even though you are flawed, you are still perfect. The flaws are exactly what you need to experience to progress along your chosen path.

The crux is to ignore the water, allow yourself to drown, and rejoice in the fact that you can feel so intensely, then accept all that you are as it as in this moment, which allows the opportunity to become more in each successive moment.

Thank you Dtris. It is so funny, just yesterday I was listening to a podcast interview of a Belgian psychologist named Esther and she was talking about self confidence, and she said, ' Real self confidence is accepting you will make mistakes but will still hold yourself in high regards."

It's perhaps on a less deep level than what you are all taking here, but still, the synchronicity is nice.

[Sacred Fool]

I think depression is just feelings you don't wanna feel, so you numb yourself and feel nothing. I'm sick of feeling the same painful s*** over and over again, so all I feel right now is disappointment.

On the face of it, fellow traveler, it seems that you know exactly where you need to go, you just don't want to go there.  It's like one part of you says, "You must eat your Brussels sprouts, " and another part says, "I HATE Brussels sprouts!!"  I can very much understand the frustration, having planted myself at many a threshold before.

So, I'm typing all this to suggest to you that, if you can't feel the stuff you don't want to feel by yourself, perhaps you can find an helper who can encompass your situation and assist you through this difficult passage?  Maybe some kind of psychic, medicine woman, freewheeling alien cowboy healer, whatever?  Truth is, perhaps, if you're sitting there knowing where you need to go, that's a large part of the work already done.  The next step is to accept the vulnerability necessary to cross over into the land of feeling and accepting what you'd rather not have to feel and accept.

As it happens, I'm now at my own threshold (where I've also been for years) and that same seemingly-disabling needed level of vulnerability is likewise the ticket through the door.  Just like with you--so far as is obvious to me--this is NOT playing to my strong suit, as it were.  I can't play the cranky-old-SOB card in this game, and the persistent feeling of sheer nakedness is neither flattering nor comforting.  Happily, however, I am receiving much spiritual support helping me stumble my way along through this.  In some sense, that in itself is a huge compensation for the price of admission.