We the Choir Gather and We Learn to Sing Together

[flofrog]

thank you SF and Steppingfeet, beautiful

I remember attending a concert where choir, orchestra and soloists were all on stage interpreting mozart, the Nozze di Figaro, but all on stage not in an opera production with props. At the end the finale is with the beautiful short aria of the Countess forgiving the count, it's such a beautiful short aria, and then the choir and then it's over, and the soloists were all so moved they turned to the choir and applauded the choir and the orchestra it was really moving how both soloists and all of them melted, you could see some crying. Then audience was on its feet, it was quite incredible that melting.


that small aria in an opera production
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2yrDWEoCpc

[Sacred Fool]

that small aria in an opera production
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2yrDWEoCpc

Lovely little snippet.  And I would point out these folks are all soloists, nobody there is casually singing along.  They're all pros and the resultant quality is different than you would get from a community chorus.  I am decidedly not trying to disparage the latter, only seeking to mark the distinction when a group takes more responsibility to go deeper into the music.  Or, put another way, the Law of Responsibility has its rewards.
   

[Sacred Fool]

Questioner: Could you expand on what you mean by that interaction of polarized entities in piercing the veil?


Ra: I am Ra. We shall state two items of note. The first is the extreme potential for polarization in the relationship of two polarized entities which have embarked upon the service-to-others path or, in some few cases, the service-to-self path. Secondly, we would note that effect which we have learned to call the doubling effect. Those of like mind which together seek shall far more surely find. - 83.17

10.12 Questioner: Then although many entities are not aware of this, what they really desire is to accelerate their growth, and it is their job to discover this while incarnate. Is it correct that they can accelerate their growth much more while incarnate in third density than in between incarnations of this density?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct. We shall attempt to speak upon this concept.

The Law of One has as one of its primal distortions the free will distortion, thus each entity is free to accept, reject, or ignore the mind/body/spirit complexes about it and ignore the creation itself. There are many among your social memory complex distortion who, at this time/space, engage daily, as you would put it, in the working upon the Law of One in one of its primal distortions; that is, the ways of love. However, if this same entity, being biased from the depths of its mind/body/spirit complex towards love/light, were then to accept responsibility for each moment of the time/space accumulation of present moments available to it, such an entity can empower its progress in much the same way as we described the empowering of the call of your social complex distortion to the Confederation.

By now, Sf, I can't help wondering if we're arguing two sides of the same coin, contending over that slender territory in between?  If we agree on the premise that the point of life--in the fullest, multi-density, etc. sense of the term--is exploration of self, then maybe we can agree that sometimes this aim is best served in a collaborative social context and sometimes solo?  One example that comes to mind is Ra's statement that some choose to go through 5D, as a whole or in part, within an SMC  and some prefer to do so solo.  So, each chooses according to what it feels best supports its own path of exploration.  Apparently, it just so happens that you find the Eisenstein material helpful and supportive at this particular time in this incarnation while others do not.


PS: I can't help but note here that the conversation was much more interesting when we disagreed than this post ever could be.

   

[Sacred Fool]

I am saying that there is value in supporting one another in shared culture. Wasn’t that one of your primary hopes and objectives when asking whether the forums ought to be closed? You seemed to want a more curated environment in a protected space that cut out the “detuning” elements so that harmony, connection, community, and upward movement would be more readily available.

I may be misreading your contributions to this thread. If so, I apologize. If not, I would be interested to know how your thoughts in this thread square with your previous visions for Bring4th.

You read me correctly, except that I was hoping for what you said in addition to the current format, not to replace it, as I recall it.

 
That still sounds good to me, however, as things have transpired since then, said hopes have become recessive.  In the first place, there was very little support voiced for such at that time.  Secondly, the way things are going, these forums just don't seemed destined to go in that direction.

This speaks to me of the hero's journey: separation, initiation, and return.

If you'd be interested in sharing, I'd be interested in hearing. What was your cold unknown, the dark tunnel, and the pearls gained thereby?

I've surely had my share of episodes of darkness and return.  At this time, no specific instance comes to mind, but I can report that this process has become easier for me over time.  Generally speaking, these have been turning points where I've had to relinquish bits of my prior identity in order to connect with mysterious new bits of identity at higher vibrational levels.  Sometimes this felt like releasing my grip on one trapeze, hoping another would hove into sight forthwith.  It's not much fun feeling left up in the air, nor falling, at such times.

 
Beyond that metaphor, sometimes a big point of resistance has been my reluctance to take on more responsibility as I moved closer to rapprochement with my heart.  My strong will helped me immensely to move through blockage after blockage, but at a later point it was that same will that retarded as much as it could the acquiescence of this identity as a progressing seeker in favor of that as a conduit for Love & Light.  It's almost (not quite) funny how much darkness and difficulty can be squeezed into the tight space of that particular threshold.  For some reason, I am expecting this dynamic to recur many times.
 
Ra, of course, speaks to this.

From 101.8 

Ra: I am Ra. We may only suggest that the honor of propinquity to light carries with it the Law of Responsibility.

And from 22.5 

Ra: I am Ra. This is in part correct. By the end of the second cycle, the Law of Responsibility had begun to be effectuated by the increasing ability of entities to grasp those lessons which there are to be learned in this density.

Speaking again of groups now, I'm wondering how L/L Research has interacted over the years with the Law of Responsibility.  Has this presented any challenges or difficulties as your group becomes more propinquitous to light?

   

[Diana]

I am saying that there is value in supporting one another in shared culture. Wasn’t that one of your primary hopes and objectives when asking whether the forums ought to be closed? You seemed to want a more curated environment in a protected space that cut out the “detuning” elements so that harmony, connection, community, and upward movement would be more readily available.

I may be misreading your contributions to this thread. If so, I apologize. If not, I would be interested to know how your thoughts in this thread square with your previous visions for Bring4th.

You read me correctly, except that I was hoping for what you said in addition to the current format, not to replace it, as I recall it.

That still sounds good to me, however, as things have transpired since then, said hopes have become recessive.  In the first place, there was very little support voiced for such at that time.  Secondly, the way things are going, these forums just don't seemed destined to go in that direction.

If I may comment on the idea that these forums aren't going in a direction anyone may have foreseen, hoped for, or envisioned, or foresee, hope for, or envision.

The thing is, we are in the thick of a transition as far as I can tell. The world keeps exponentially getting more complex, more chaotic. If wanderers are here to help the transition, or to ease the darkness of it, or in any way contribute to the love and light on this planet, I personally don't see that happening very well in a closed and exclusive environment. It sounds good and all to have a place as Carla envisioned for wanderers, but how does that help the world? It only helps the wanderers, and even then, only the wanderers who fit a certain profile.

Issues are going to surface now that are quite different than issues in 2012 or any other time in the past. More individuals are going to be seeking alternative and deeper answers to questions about our existence. More individuals are going to be visiting B4 with their concerns and questions. And so B4 morphs and flexes accordingly, like an oasis in the middle of a desert, which a lot of the human drama seems to be. I don't personally see things getting easier, less complicated or chaotic, anytime soon. I think this is what some wanderers came here for right now, to hold this space of centeredness in the midst of a storm, like the clam eye of a hurricane. 

We can encourage community, positive energy, STO perspectives, focus on the bigger picture. But encourage, or perhaps a better way to put it is exemplify, these concepts is the best we can do. 

Personally, I never expect anyone's help or understanding or partnership in metaphysical exploration, though it's nice when it happens for sure. What I do find is that even just participating in a conversation, even if no one knows what the heck I'm talking about, helps me to clarify things for myself. The acts of interaction, expression, and getting things out of one's head alone is expanding in itself.

I am somewhat of a loner, having worked for myself for a very long time, and I don't pay much attention to the media, so my view of the world may be quite skewed. So I serve up my perspectives with a shaker of salt.

---

Oh, and SF, don't give up hope on more LOO and deeper foci here, as the Community Stewardship Circle does have ideas pending that may serve to support such direction. But as Aion is always saying, it takes time.

[Ymarsakar]

The babylon 4 project. Humanity s last best hope for peace heh

"even if no one knows what the heck I'm talking about"

I can understand your writing rather easily though?

Often i d9nt comment on it since it is beneficial for others.

[Diana]

"even if no one knows what the heck I'm talking about"

I can understand your writing rather easily though?

Often i d9nt comment on it since it is beneficial for others.

B4 has been beneficial for me in this way. It helped and continues to help me refine my communication skills on subjects difficult for words to describe or contain.

[Sacred Fool]

The thing is, we are in the thick of a transition as far as I can tell. The world keeps exponentially getting more complex, more chaotic. If wanderers are here to help the transition, or to ease the darkness of it, or in any way contribute to the love and light on this planet, I personally don't see that happening very well in a closed and exclusive environment. It sounds good and all to have a place as Carla envisioned for wanderers, but how does that help the world? It only helps the wanderers, and even then, only the wanderers who fit a certain profile.

Golly, Diana, this feels so claustrophobic and gloomy.  I'm sure you've considered more capacious possibilities as well.

This statement also prompts me to note, the Ra Material was not expected to be useful for but a relatively small number of people, most of them probably wanderers, but that has been very helpful to that subset of folks.  It gave us the usage of the word "wanderer" we're using here, as one tiny example.

Whether the same will ever be said about the forums remains to be seen...and I remain both open-minded and skeptical.  I've come to consider that one critical thing that separates the forums from how the Ra Material was conceived or even from the LLR Homecoming events, is that with the latter two there was a very deliberate attempt to bring down Love & Light and infuse that into the experience.  It challenges my imagination to suppose how the CSC could do that in the context of these forums.

But, hey.  Surprise me!  That would be a choral sound I would very much enjoy.

  

[Patrick]

...But, hey.  Surprise me!  That would be a choral I would very much enjoy.

Most of the things we are acting on are not obvious for other members, other than the ones directly concerned. But things are moving along. I perceive a difference already compared with just 6 months ago.

[Sacred Fool]

...But, hey.  Surprise me!  That would be a choral sound I would very much enjoy.

Most of the things we are acting on are not obvious for other members, other than the ones directly concerned.  But things are moving along.  I perceive a difference already compared with just 6 months ago.

Uh.....  Are you implying that y'all have been moderating for content or demeanor or something?  The veil is thick, Patrick.  If so, thanks.


   

[Diana]

Golly, Diana, this feels so claustrophobic and gloomy.  I'm sure you've considered more capacious possibilities as well.

You do realize that I was not advocating for said closed system?

This statement also prompts me to note, the Ra Material was not expected to be useful for but a relatively small number of people, most of them probably wanderers, but that has been very helpful to that subset of folks.  It gave us the usage of the word "wanderer" we're using here, as one tiny example.

That may be so. But here we are now. Many people other than wanderers may be interested in this site.

Whether the same will ever be said about the forums remains to be seen...and I remain both open-minded and skeptical.  I've come to consider that one critical thing that separates the forums from how the Ra Material was conceived or even from the LLR Homecoming events, is that with the latter two there was a very deliberate attempt to bring down Love & Light and infuse that into the experience.  It challenges my imagination to suppose how the CSC could do that in the context of these forums.

Every single person who comes here sheds their light into this place. You shed yours; I shed mine. This site is made up of individuals who are not in the same room with each other. Homecoming cannot be compared to B4—I think it's unproductive and unrealistic to attempt it. Personally, if I were you, I would just do what you want everyone here to do—bring love and light down on this place. And, it seems to me you already are. Why expect anything more?

[Sacred Fool]

Every single person who comes here sheds their light into this place. You shed yours; I shed mine. This site is made up of individuals who are not in the same room with each other. Homecoming cannot be compared to B4—I think it's unproductive and unrealistic to attempt it. Personally, if I were you, I would just do what you want everyone here to do—bring love and light down on this place. And, it seems to me you already are. Why expect anything more?

Sf asked me a question a question and I responded.  The point of personal understanding I was trying to make had to do with distinction between a context where there is a directed invocation of Divine Love & Light and a place which has a more casual structure.  I thought I made it clear that I'm not expecting more.
  

[Diana]

Sf asked me a question a question and I responded.  The point of personal understanding I was trying to make had to do with distinction between a context where there is a directed invocation of Divine Love & Light and a place which has a more casual structure.  I thought I made it clear that I'm not expecting more.
  

I am sometimes hasty due to time constraints so I miss the total context. Apologies for misunderstanding.

Personally, and this isn't a response to any of your posts Sacred Fool, just a general comment, I really like the more casual context which does carry within it the possibility of depth at any moment, and the wide variety of input—centered around the original impetus (at least for me) of the Ra Material.

[Steppingfeet]

By now, Sf, I can't help wondering if we're arguing two sides of the same coin, contending over that slender territory in between?  If we agree on the premise that the point of life--in the fullest, multi-density, etc. sense of the term--is exploration of self, then maybe we can agree that sometimes this aim is best served in a collaborative social context and sometimes solo?

Absolutely. This would have been my position at the start of the thread, too. Like you rightfully indicate, one may journey (I presume) millions of years as a solo actor in the fifth density. Maybe a few less here in third.

I just didn't read you as using an "and" earlier on.

But even on a seemingly solo journey, I would note, one always carries the collective with them. I don't mean in the sense that the "practitioner contains the creation" and is ultimately all things in the One Creator, but rather and more specifically that the structure of our mind itself has collective layers in its subterranean strata, moving down from the individual conscious and the personal subconscious minds to the racial mind, the planetary mind, the archetypal (sub-Logoic) mind, and eventually the cosmic mind.

Moreover, our seemingly individual identity has been forged by the conditioning, inputs, responses to and dances with various collectives, particularly our planetary home group. There is no such thing as an island, in my understanding.

My own journey has fluctuated between solo and involved periods.

Apparently, it just so happens that you find the Eisenstein material helpful and supportive at this particular time in this incarnation while others do not.

This is a true statement and perfectly acceptable to me.

PS: I can't help but note here that the conversation was much more interesting when we disagreed than this post ever could be.

Well, we're both SFs. Or sometimes maybe MFs. : )

I am saying that there is value in supporting one another in shared culture. Wasn’t that one of your primary hopes and objectives when asking whether the forums ought to be closed? You seemed to want a more curated environment in a protected space that cut out the “detuning” elements so that harmony, connection, community, and upward movement would be more readily available.

I may be misreading your contributions to this thread. If so, I apologize. If not, I would be interested to know how your thoughts in this thread square with your previous visions for Bring4th.

That still sounds good to me, however, as things have transpired since then, said hopes have become recessive.  In the first place, there was very little support voiced for such at that time.  Secondly, the way things are going, these forums just don't seemed destined to go in that direction.

Is that the square? That is, you were seeking something in the direction that I described above, but your contributions to this thread veered from those earlier thoughts because "said hopes have become recessive" and "the way things are going, these forums just don't seemed destined to go in that direction."

That's fine, just assuring that I understand.

You may be aware that by participating in the larger L/L Research mission (itself just a specialized subset of the general wanderer mission), you are dreaming the impossible dream, as Carla always had it. In other words, persist in hoping and efforting, Sacred Fool, the results are less important than the intentions. And in that persistence, you are a light to others.

[Said humbly from one peer stumbling in the dark to another.]

This speaks to me of the hero's journey: separation, initiation, and return.

If you'd be interested in sharing, I'd be interested in hearing. What was your cold unknown, the dark tunnel, and the pearls gained thereby?

Beyond that metaphor, sometimes a big point of resistance has been my reluctance to take on more responsibility as I moved closer to rapprochement with my heart.  My strong will helped me immensely to move through blockage after blockage, but at a later point it was that same will that retarded as much as it could the acquiescence of this identity as a progressing seeker in favor of that as a conduit for Love & Light.  It's almost (not quite) funny how much darkness and difficulty can be squeezed into the tight space of that particular threshold.  For some reason, I am expecting this dynamic to recur many times.

Artistic and general as your impressions are, I see some of my own patterns in here as well. Thank you for sharing, SF.

My big separation/initiation/return unfolded incrementally over the course of an undefined several years as an old identity of conformity and sleep died to make way for the spiritual seeker twenty plus years ago. A change in worldview, values, peers, desires, identity. An increased sensitivity to suffering. It was accompanied with no small amount of confusion, darkness, and pain. I simultaneously had direction and burning desire, but felt quite adrift and alone. Since then, there have been smaller cycles but big initiations, and many misteps in the night along the way.
 

Speaking again of groups now, I'm wondering how L/L Research has interacted over the years with the Law of Responsibility.  Has this presented any challenges or difficulties as your group becomes more propinquitous to light?

This measure will be known when in our violet-ray beingness we are seen fully in the light. But from my limited and quite human perspective, challenges have been abundant over the decades, both long before and well into my time. As with any human endeavor, especially when under so blazing a light, shadows come to life, projections are cast, and the question of "whose distortions are whose?" becomes difficult to unpack. Situations enhanced, I would imagine, by a loyal opposition that would love nothing more than to cease or discredit the light of such efforts by breaking up groups and exacerbating disharmony.

The Law of One text doesn't buffer against the fact that we are all wounded human creatures in a veiled environment where we are hidden from each other and literally from ourselves; where we may not be communicating what we're actually feeling, or not hearing what the other is actually saying, or may be not understanding anything at all, really.

In the quote you mentioned, Ra also says "The duty to refrain from contumely, discord, and all things which, when unresolved within, make way for workings lies before the instrument of which you speak."

[Contumely can be defined as an insulting rudeness in speech or manner; scornful insolence; an insult, or an insulting act.]

I think that as a general cardinal rule, two or more people can work out most anything with determined but compassionate, responsibility-taking communication. The L/L group has suffered some entropy as a result of the blockage of this avenue due to whatever reason, sometimes by my own distortions. Disharmony erupts. Egos flare. Hearts hurt. Misunderstanding abounds. People go their separate ways to follow their own lights. Both successes and failures (or "learning opportunities") have been our lot.

But that which endures does so because of the capacity to work through disharmony with compassion. Not to exclude the many others who participate in this mission over the years by doing that sort of work, but just to focus in on our core small band in Louisville, we have been reliably able to do precisely that over the years, maintaining open hearts in harmonics of harmony. For example, Carla, Jim, and I have all butted heads with one another due to missteps on all of our parts, but at the end of the day we never failed to restore harmony, usually quickly, by hewing to that "propinquity to the light" and simply talking things through. Austin and I run into some turbulence every rare once in a while too, but without exception we talk our differences of perception kindly and respectfully to one another, even if initially feeling hurt by the other, and we resume shared mission with shared heart.

A key point in navigating the challenges that will arise for any group includes remembrance of one of Carla's favorite phrases: We are all bozos on the bus.

We will err, we will say or do something stupidly, we will hurt one another, and the cutting of slack, the forgiving is key to creating the environment wherein the light may be carried. And oh what an often hard journey it is to learn that forgiveness. The fires are intensive, they are.

[Sacred Fool]

Absolutely. This would have been my position at the start of the thread, too. Like you rightfully indicate, one may journey (I presume) millions of years as a solo actor in the fifth density. Maybe a few less here in third.

I just didn't read you as using an "and" earlier on.

Earlier on, I responded to your request for a personal reply ("What if anything does this stir in you?"), ergo I replied on a personal level.  I was not staking out a reasoned position on the matter.  You forced me into that later.  (heh heh)

Well, we're both SFs. Or sometimes maybe MFs. : )

 
This is transient information, at least in my case.

Is that the square? That is, you were seeking something in the direction that I described above, but your contributions to this thread veered from those earlier thoughts because "said hopes have become recessive" and "the way things are going, these forums just don't seemed destined to go in that direction."

That's fine, just assuring that I understand.

 
I think I maybe understand your query, my brother.  More simply put: heretofore, I deliberately created a disturbance pattern in these precincts by encouraging others to offer their thoughts and feelings about how these forums serve whatever purpose they suppose these forums should serve.  Following that ordeal, things have settled out here the way they have--for the better, I would say--and I'm accepting that things are going as they are.  I've concluded that if things were more inclined to go the way I would prefer, signs of this would have emerged by now.  If things swing that way in the future, that's fine, but my expectations are that it is now what people can handle it being and there is no urge for growth.  So be it.  This is where I've landed in terms of trying to balance love, wisdom & power in this particular context. 

Speaking again of groups now, I'm wondering how L/L Research has interacted over the years with the Law of Responsibility.  Has this presented any challenges or difficulties as your group becomes more propinquitous to light?

I thank you for your response to my query, my brother.  You spoke mainly about interactions on the level of orange ray and yellow ray energies, and I'm wondering if you might also be able speak to complications involving green ray energies.  But it might be useful to rephrase the question.

So, starting over, as the L/L Research enterprise has proceeded through time, has it become more propinquitous to the light?  If so, has this brought up conflicts of interest on a green ray level, and if so, how have these been navigated?  This could involve, for instance, the reluctance of staff or board members to accept more love and light such that it would cause a redefinition of the group's identity and mission owing to the Law of Responsibility mandating some higher level of purity of the work.

This question might be treading close to the limits of good taste, but in some sense your organization is a potential role model for others to understand these things, so I thought it would be interesting to ask what it sounds like when you guys gather and learn to sing together in the context of different people feeling more pressure due to the Law of Responsibility than others.  Surely, in a group context this must be more problematic than what I face simply dealing with my multi-faceted self.


I have to run out the door here now, but just to add to the final clause above, for moi, that might entail readjusting self to be more transparent (honest, etc.) or to deliberately tune myself more often with the spirit guides who constantly offer me their vibrations or in other ways attempt to "grasp the needle," as it were.

  
It's now a few days hence and I would add to the other questions here. This website is called bring4th and the spirit of LLR has do with preparing the way, shall we say, for 4D energies and spiritual developement. Does LLR therefore have any internal practices which help to blend green ray and yellow ray energies? Ways of, say, planning its pathway forward which seek to integrate the heart with the social or personal aspects of decision making? If so, I'd be interested to read about them. It's a difficult, but important element of latter day living, I would say.

[Steppingfeet]

Hello Sacred Fool. Sorry to be slow on this. Just been so swamped lately, with L/L work and in the personal life. Burning the candle at both ends has been a common feature of my path.

I thank you for your response to my query, my brother.  You spoke mainly about interactions on the level of orange ray and yellow ray energies, and I'm wondering if you might also be able speak to complications involving green ray energies.  But it might be useful to rephrase the question.

Oh contraire. In the spirit of the great Unity100, you are wrong.

Just being lighthearted. That gave me a laugh. While those aforementioned dynamics very much include orange- and yellow-ray energies, and while those dynamics can sometimes get stuck in the mud of orange and yellow when the green becomes partially blocked, interpersonal and intrapersonal work is at the heart of our work here in third density, imo. When that work is successfully undertaken, it necessarily moves upward into green, blue, and perhaps in some rare cases, indigo. All through processing of the catalyst of basic daily life. It's amazing.

Ra: This catalyst then is shared between peoples as an important part of each self’s development as well as the experiences of the self in solitude and the synthesis of all experience through meditation. The quickest way to learn is to deal with other-selves. This is a much greater catalyst than dealing with the self. Dealing with the self without other-selves is akin to living without what you would call mirrors. Thus, the self cannot see the fruits of its beingness. Thus, each may aid each by reflection. This is also a primary reason for the weakening of the physical vehicle, as you call the physical complex. - 19.13

I happen to think that's true whether the entity be a multinational corporation or mom'n'pop restaurant.

What might differentiate L/L Research, or any organization of human beings who are conscious of the spiritual dimension, is the understanding that the mission is most effectively achieved in the metaphysical sense by engaging the metaphysical or inner work.

A group of un-self-reflective people could successfully achieve most any earthly mission - be it to distribute a resource, design a product, research a proposal, etc. - but L/L understands that, whatever the outer service, it is through the inner (and interpersonal) work of learning to open the heart that our big mission here, service to others and polarizing our consciousness, is most effectively achieved. This is why Carla spoke of changing the diapers being equal with, idk, serving as a world leader so long as the how is as or more important than the what; that is, so long as the service is done with love.

That is also why I harp on the forums with the message that one of the most important things we do here at Bring4th is to learn to play together in the open heart, less important (but still important) being the particular information we exchange.

Personally I don't feel that I have fully understood or embodied unconditional love, but that is my aim; and as I heal my own blockages and grow in self-acceptance, I do see the heart open more widely. L/L has given me lots of catalyst for that, as has marriage, as has family dynamics, as have friendships, as have human relationships.

To the rest of your questions, I'm not sure re the thrust of your query. More propinquituous? I would generally like to think so. But none of us have faced the white hot intensity of light that Carla, Don, and Jim knew during the Ra contact. In general the practice of formal vocal channeling is a testing, revealing, distortion-enhancing light that requires increased levels of responsibility to keep the contact purely positive and to avoid becoming disarranged, but it still is not the razor's edge that was the Ra contact. So far as I know, no samurai fifth-density negative beings are trying to cease the viability of our yellow-ray complexes.

"Reluctance of staff or board members to accept more love and light such that it would cause a redefinition of the group's identity and mission"?

Does this imply that our present quotient of love and light is limited and to accept more would be to necessarily redefine the mission and vision?

We are so thoroughly, genetically who we are that this lands with me like expecting an apple tree to produce a different fruit or become a different tree altogether if it accepted even more love and light.

Who knows whether more love and light would mean a brand new or redefined mission, as all things evolve (dinosaurs now fill our skies with birdsong), we must be open to the possibility of such things, but I don't anticipate something as fundamental as a redefinition any time soon. Our plates are plenty full meeting the current mission.

We as a group recently had opportunity to reevaluate the mission, actually. Jim McCarty and we felt immensely honored with and supportive of L/L's central-most mission as it is presently defined, which is, in short, to collect and make available channeled information from Confederation sources. Carla felt likewise when interviewed for seven days prior to her passing.

It is that to which we devote our lives. It is that mission which we keep alive and thriving. It is that mission which literally transforms lives around the world, as decades of ongoing testimony attest. It's the most awesome thing that we can do.

There is not cause sufficient to redefine that. It is what L/L Research is. It is our service to the world. That mission has grown and will continue to grow. New ways of facilitating that core mission have come and will continue to manifest (this website being one such example), and new ways may be discovered, but it all ties back to that central thread.

Naturally we attempt to do that as purely as possible. Otherwise, given the metaphysical demands of our particular vocation of service, I think we would have spun out long ago.

... what it sounds like when you guys gather and learn to sing together in the context of different people feeling more pressure due to the Law of Responsibility than others.  Surely, in a group context this must be more problematic than what I face simply dealing with my multi-faceted self.

Oh friend, for sure, group work is inherently more complex and therefore likely more challenging than working alone. (See quote above.)

What does it sound like when we learn to sing together? Harmony, of which which we on the home team have exquisite and enduring levels, and of which we generally enjoy with others contributing to this mission. Like I indicated earlier, there have been failures, sometimes spectacularly so.

What else does it sound like? The channeling may give indication. As may other features of our never relenting work to operate as a unit in service to this mission.

Just to exist at our present level with this particular mission, which many find to be a relatively pure light in this sinkholed world of mixed polarity, is a great challenge in and of itself. So many, many balances between the yellow-ray demands of operating in the physical plane with the incorporation of metaphysical principles to create a container for the great service: channeling extra-planetary, higher-dimensional consciousnesses. And when the curtains come up and we stand naked in the revealing light of intelligent infinity and the truth of our hearts are made visible to self and to all, I hope we will be seen as having achieved that which we incarnated on Earth to do.

It's now a few days hence and I would add to the other questions here.  This website is called bring4th and the spirit of LLR has do with preparing the way, shall we say, for 4D energies and spiritual developement.  Does LLR therefore have any internal practices which help to blend green ray and yellow ray energies?  Ways of, say, planning its pathway forward which seek to integrate the heart with the social or personal aspects of decision making?  If so, I'd be interested to read about them.  It's a difficult, but important element of latter day living, I would say.

You can read Tilting at Windmills. It attempts to capture the biography of L/L Research, woven throughout which is this dynamic of blending yellow- and green-ray energies. Carla's A Channeling Handbook also captures the principles necessary for practice and embodiment for channeling Confederation sources. The new website will offer more about the organization as well (secondary to the material itself). Otherwise I spoke to this previously, I believe. Whatever specific organizational policies and practices encode the work, it comes down to practicing and embodying the basic principles that are repeated ad infinitum in the Confederation philosophy, those that are intrinsic to the path of the positive polarity.

Given your inquiry into the model of L/L Research, as it were, are you considering exiting your protected solitary space in order to blend energies in group work?

[Edit: Regarding the notion of "higher," there exist within my heart a desire for even more sacred, gateway-opening, indigo-centered work on behalf of the Creator, particularly around healing. That however doesn't yet seem to be a portion of the curriculum or the plan. What is true is that L/L is an entity unto itself with its own life path. By being sensitive to its needs, its stewards can become instruments of its fulfillment.]

[rva_jeremy]

Sacred Fool, allow me to share the harvest of my exploration of some of the questions you're posing to L/L Research. I'm offering this because I've gone much farther down the path I see you treading, and I'd like to offer some conclusions I've come to in the hopes that doing so allows others to avoid the pain of disappointed expectations, the resentment that can arise from confusing different kinds of relationship in seeking.

I think it's wise to view L/L Research (LLR) as consisting of two concepts: (A) the yellow-ray organization, and (B) the green-ray family. At Homecoming and meditations throughout the year we see the two merge, but they will not always coincide, and though we may wish for it to be otherwise -- we may wish for ideals to obtain that we see purely and clearly in honest and sincere green-ray fashion -- we cannot expect a yellow-ray organization that deals with money, endowments, payroll, IRS filings, board meetings, etc. to always meet those needs. The organizations material actions are in their own way personal and idiosyncratic, and I have found that there is neither time nor desire on their part to accommodate everybody. I have made my peace with that after years of heartache and mourning for the ideal I imagined LLR to be.

Additionally, I think it's useful to view yellow-ray LLR as consisting of only three entities who are the most engaged in the organization's day-to-day, yellow-ray activities. They have achieved a harmonic understanding amongst themselves of what their shared service entails as well as where the boundaries of that service lies. There is nothing set in stone about this harmony, it could be modified, but it is theirs to define and not ours to amend. I say this as somebody who has made the attempt at persuasion! Their boundaries may not reach the ideals that we feel are possible, but service to others does not allow for demanding others to conform to one's ideals. In this they are our brothers and not our leaders.

This may result in a transformed and stepped-down understanding of the organization; it certainly has for me. But it's a much more truthful one, one that can allow for imperfection and human frailties on one's own part as well as on theirs. We are in truth brothers and there is nothing special about those three that requires either supplication or critique. Furthermore, not putting LLR on a pedestal frees one to explore the possibilities of one's own ideals instead of using LLR as an excuse for why one cannot serve as purely as one would wish. I couldn't agree more with you that more advanced group work is not only incumbent on dedicated seekers but also a frontier not nearly exhausted even by the three involved in the Ra contact -- there were very, very clearly areas of discipline and magical work not fully taken up. All that being said, we cannot expect LLR's personally chosen boundaries to facilitate this work, as neatly as that would fit in with my idealistic concept of the organization.

In fact, it is perhaps more pure and poignant if we take up the work ourselves and organize on our own terms, with the attraction of our ideals unimpeded by the arbitrary balances reached by those involved in LLR. I say this not to impugn anybody involved in LLR, but only to say that where they draw their lines is fully their own choice, and that they clearly and expressly owe no duty in excess of what they personally feel. This is not an end of the story -- it is the firing of the starting gun! We have the platform here and elsewhere to do the work we feel drawn to, just as they do the work they feel drawn to. I encourage all seekers who see value in more organized and disciplined group work to directly message folks they feel harmony with and see this forum as a ground out of which that which you feel moved to do can blossom, not a cage that limits the amount of group work can be done.

If anybody would like to discuss these ideas, I am always available, feel free to DM. Just as the content of the Ra contact is not the limit of the Law of One -- the real Law of One is in our seeking and experiences and learning -- LLR is not the limit of service-to-others group work. There is so much more to discover within ourselves, so much more seeking to perform, so much more wisdom to explore, so much more mystery to behold. I implore all seekers to get to work, and see LLR as friends and companions in that search, not leaders to be followed. You will feel much more peaceful, and it is in that peace we find the freedom to serve as our hearts ask.

[Ymarsakar]

There could be greater community reach via the podcast discussions. Taking direct questions or topics from the forum link before the podcast airs.

So far it feels like it is two different orgs doing it.

[Patrick]

There could be greater community reach via the podcast discussions. Taking direct questions or topics from the forum link before the podcast airs.

So far it feels like it is two different orgs doing it.

It's not directly before it airs, but people can submit questions in this thread.

https://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthre...?tid=10824

[Ohr Ein Sof]

There could be greater community reach via the podcast discussions. Taking direct questions or topics from the forum link before the podcast airs.

So far it feels like it is two different orgs doing it.

It's not directly before it airs, but people can submit questions in this thread.

https://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthre...?tid=10824

You took the words out of my mouth Patrick. Ymar probably already knows. Its a great suggestion because now there is a link for newcomers if they would like to submit questions for topics up for discussion.

[Ymarsakar]

Each podcast has its own forum discussion. But usually it is empty. I found that strange as it would often be better to discuss concepts there than in the other sub forums.

[Sacred Fool]

In fact, it is perhaps more pure and poignant if we take up the work ourselves and organize on our own terms, with the attraction of our ideals unimpeded by the arbitrary balances reached by those involved in LLR. 

 
To cut to the chase, old friend, you're advocating working around LLR to "organize on our own terms" some amorphous experimental social construct, yet you are having to declare this on LLR's forum site to find anyone who might be interested in the concept.  So, there's a catch-22 in play here.

Stepping back for a moment (or longer), I've been wondering lately (and not for the first time) what the role of LLR could be.  In ink above, it's main driver says that producing Confederation materials and publishing them is about the right scope for them.  But then why have these forums?  Also, part of their mission is to support inquiring wanderer types, so how far might that extend?  And, kind of to your point, there has developed a group of people around LLR as channeling session attendees, readers, correspondents, event attendees, volunteers of many sorts and forum users, and proportionally speaking, damn near none of them come anywhere near these forums.  So, what about that?

How do we sing together, queried the maestro?  Is there any desire to do this?  Should these groups converge, should they not?  What could possibly draw them together--or draw sets of them together--to do more than can be done at annual events which can only accommodate a small number of guests?  If we built it, would they come?  Or, if they came, would we build it?  Or should we passively sit around and let the clock tick down while we watch to see what will happen next, as one person here likes to suggest?

I'm not sure, but for my taste, I'd like to see LLR enterprises rise to a different level of engagement with those who support it.  I think that what's available could be distilled to something more resonant and generous of spirit, given many hearts aiming in the same direction.  But I could could be entirely wrong about that.
   

[Ymarsakar]

Once the anchora for the forums reach a certain vibration, then it can draw in others

[rva_jeremy]

To cut to the chase, old friend, you're advocating working around LLR to "organize on our own terms" some amorphous experimental social construct, yet you are having to declare this on LLR's forum site to find anyone who might be interested in the concept.  So, there's a catch-22 in play here.

I'm not declaring anything, and I'm not trying to find anyone. I'm making myself available as somebody who has tread this ground.

And, kind of to your point, there has developed a group of people around LLR as channeling session attendees, readers, correspondents, event attendees, volunteers of many sorts and forum users, and proportionally speaking, damn near none of them come anywhere near these forums.  So, what about that?

What about it, indeed. I would agree with the assessments you've made before, acknowledging both the massive potential here as well as recognizing the desires that have revealed themselves in what we see. If an organization or individual wants to influence the individuals around him, even in a virtual space, I am convinced that the only chance to do so is by setting an example. That goes for LLR in their policies and actions here, those you correctly identify in their orbit who stay away, and everybody else as well.

I'm not sure, but for my taste, I'd like to see LLR enterprises rise to a different level of engagement with those who support it.  I think that what's available could be distilled to something more resonant and generous of spirit, given many hearts aiming in the same direction.  But I could could be entirely wrong about that.

I think you're 100% on the money! When the direct path forward is blocked for whatever reason -- in this case, LLR not caring to do what you ask -- what is one to do? I'll offer my answer: go around, blaze a trail for others, and let your example be your argument.

At the end of the day, SteppingFeet is right: it is on us, the membership here, to make this place what is only now in potentiation. Whether or not that statement is an abdication of LLR's green-ray mission is besides the point because it is not our abdication to make or refrain from. I implore everybody: discover your true desire, purify it, and prosecute it. You have the tools, whether LLR clears the way for their use or not.

[Sacred Fool]

I am convinced that the only chance to do so is by setting an example. That goes for LLR in their policies and actions here, those you correctly identify in their orbit who stay away, and everybody else as well.

 
I wanna say more anon, but for this magical moment....  I don't think setting an example is nearly enough.  People are now spread out and need to be drawn together somehow, perhaps because they resonate to some central theme or rise to a call to action or something.  And there needs to be a mechanism for people sorting themselves out in the sense that the ones who converge should be those who resonate along similar lines of seeking and service.  After these are pulled from the pile, then others who would coalesce around their particular affinities can perhaps more easily find each other...if they're into that.

It may be, Jeremy, that the set of souls you would attract for the specific thing you're trying to do would be too small to create its own spiritual gravity?  Somehow you'll (or we'll) want to give a lot of thought to whom you/we would wish to call in and for what purpose.  I'll bet one reason L/L hasn't moved much on this topic is that the specifics of whom, with what vibrational distortions and for what purposes have yet to be defined and understood.  On the one hand, they have expressed appreciation for the Asheville group and choral singing--so the general concept of group love and support is certainly accepted--but, as you say or imply (or maybe I made it up?), they may not feel they are the best ones to create such a thing.  And, if so, they may well be right because their expertise lies in other areas.

I'm not trying to apologize for whatever you're sore about, I'm just trying to show that it's a very challenging proposition to arrange, even mentally.
    

[Sacred Fool]

At the end of the day, SteppingFeet is right: it is on us, the membership here, to make this place what is only now in potentiation. Whether or not that statement is an abdication of LLR's green-ray mission is besides the point because it is not our abdication to make or refrain from. I implore everybody: discover your true desire, purify it, and prosecute it. You have the tools, whether LLR clears the way for their use or not.

Mr. Jeremy, are you saying that you have some direct knowledge of what LLR's green ray mission is?  I'm not aware that they have stated anything like this.  Is this your inference?  If so, is it fair for you to hold them to what you want them to be?  And I'm only asking you this because I'm trying to understand where the balance point is here.  I mean, I'm not aware of them committing themselves to creating a palpable social group.  Am I wrong about this?

To be clear, I see the potential for something along these lines, but I just don't know what that would be.  It would be so doggone cool if the various people who feel an heart-song commitment to Confederation ethos, philosophy and spiritual orientation could connect and vibrate transcendent love, but I don't see Gary or Austin leading that, to be blunt for just a moment.  I don't you or I leading it.  Jim seems like an unlikely volunteer for such a venture, imo.  So, then what?  What is the pathway forward?
    

[rva_jeremy]

I understand you want more specifics from me, but I really don't have more to offer than what I already have. All I wanted to do was acknowledge the very legitimate feelings being expressed earlier, since they were feelings I shared, and offer the lessons I've learned after literally years of grappling with them. If I've muddied the waters or caused confusion, I apologize.

[Sacred Fool]

I understand you want more specifics from me, but I really don't have more to offer than what I already have. All I wanted to do was acknowledge the very legitimate feelings being expressed earlier, since they were feelings I shared, and offer the lessons I've learned after literally years of grappling with them. If I've muddied the waters or caused confusion, I apologize.

Muddied the waters?  Kinda the point I was making is that them waters are a long, long way from being crystal clear, so you are taking undue credit for that, so far as I can see.  I was just trying to coax a little more out of you so as to add something to the larger conversation about choral music, because the way forward might probably begin with sharing feelings, sorta like we was.
  

[rva_jeremy]

Muddied the waters?  Kinda the point I was making is that them waters are a long, long way from being crystal clear, so you are taking undue credit for that, so far as I can see.  I was just trying to coax a little more out of you so as to add something to the larger conversation about choral music, because the way forward might probably begin with sharing feelings, sorta like we was.
  

The only thing I'll say about the choral metaphor is that choirs almost always have conductors leading them. That may be the ideal of harmony that many here hold, but it's not mine. That's all I really have to say about that subject.

[Sacred Fool]

The only thing I'll say about the choral metaphor is that choirs almost always have conductors leading them. That may be the ideal of harmony that many here hold, but it's not mine. That's all I really have to say about that subject

I don't believe Sweet Honey in the Rock has a conductor, neither does Anonymous 4, but the participants are all of solo quality.  That's the trade off in that world.  Amateurs or large groups in general require a centralised focus, whereas soloists weaving beauty amongst one another may not.  You might consider this, O noisy one.  ha ha