Are you going to take the vaccine?

[Patrick]

Without the fear, the vax would not be front and center to the degree that it is now, and certainly not how many countries are making it basically mandatory. This has never happened in this way for the flu, despite some years having the same direct health impact (the reaction to the virus has created alot of extraneous casualties that are now being associated to the virus in a fraudulent way).

So yes, the fear and propaganda is what makes this situation different, from say 2018 flu season which was particularly high. But for some being in the boiling pot of water makes it hard to differentiate the illusions being created. It also makes it difficult to identify parallel agendas, which is the bigger picture.

Yeah ok the world would not be making such a fuss about vaccination if there was no pandemic.  But also the societal debate about vaccination predates the current pandemic.

I can understand the drive behind such decisions, but I wish they would not make vaccination mandatory.  Not because of vaccination per se, but because mandatory treatments is something I find issue with in general.

I do not see Covid19 having the same direct health impact as the regular flu.  Not talking about its deadliness, but rather about the kind of longer lasting complications some people experience.  That is a newer aspect compared with the flu.  Indeed the medias need very little to get to town with and a pandemic was sure to inspire that machine.  That machine is fueled by tragedy and our current situation gives them an open field.

Even so, in the hypothetical scenario where there were no media frensy and no declaration of a pandemic by the WHO, there are enough remarkable features about the preponderance of infections and the effect the virus has on us that it would have attracted attention.  It would not just have been ignored as if just another flu virus.  It would have taken longer, but it would have come up on the radar.

Now, however it comes to our radar, once there a solution will be sought.  I am not going to say that a vaccine would have been produced this fast without the world fearing those uncommon effects of the virus.  But the facts are there.  These uncommon effects are there and I do not see how we could expect the world not to muster some fear based on that.  I wish it would not, but that is an unreasonable expectation of mine.

I said there is no need to fear this virus, not because I believe it is not dangerous, but because fearing it is not going to help anyone, including the self.  Instead of fear, a more reasonable response would be more effective.  Like taking on a challenge.  You then enter problem solving from the point of view of meeting the challenge instead of doing it because of fear.

[Patrick]

Thanks for your effort above, Patrick!

And thanks, silly, for chiming in!

And, yes, Patrick, I am saying no such action would be taken without that fear and no such action would be accepted by the population without that fear.

Much more people die of alcohol each year, I am not aware of any such action taken.
We even make advertisement for alcohol.
Now that a year is over, in most countries it showed not more people died than in other years.
Its about the same.

But all of a sudden, everybody dies of Corona.
If people die of cancer, they are still counted as Corona deaths when they get tested positive.

And it would be just as with the flu, some would be infected, some would die, in heavy toi es hospitals would be full, just like every year.

And most of all, probably less than 5% would get the vax, that’s about the rate with the flu vax.

But,for a year now, intense fear has been created around the whole situation, that is what makes it different!

I will assume the action we are talking about is vaccination (if not let me know).  The production of a vaccine might not have happened without that fear (at least not that quick).  But I would not go as far as saying that vaccination would not have been accepted by the population once available.  As far as I know, the general population does not consider vaccination something worth making a fuss about.  It's just a tool in the toolbox.  Now, the current eagerness people have to get vaccinated for Covid19 might very well be fear-based.  But the acceptance of vaccination per se is not based on fear for the general population.

The other actions we collectively take regarding other health issues could be better prioritized for sure.  Actions are taken regarding alcoholism, it's not ignored.

The Covid19 death count has a lot of epidemiological/statistical hocus pocus going on.  And on top of that, the hocus pocus is different from place to place.  So personally, I don't find that count very interesting.  What interest me more are the novel complications many people experience due to Covid19.  There is a lot to unpack in that area.

The impact on our healthcare system is not faked and is not the same as the yearly peaks due to the flu.  Tell me how could that be faked ?  I see no way of hiding something so big and obvious.  If it's a conspiracy, you would literally have to include all the healthcare workers of this world that were touched by this in the deception.  If a conspiracy this big can be done at all, we might as well pack up our bags and give the loyal opposition their trophy.

I would be very surprised if the preponderance of infections would stay as low as 5%.  But even at 5%, since patients stay much longer in hospitals when they have complications compared with the flu, I think it could have overburdened our healthcare systems.  Lets not forget the impact this has on all the other treatments hospitals have to delay because of this.

The fear is unfortunate, overblown and understandable, but certainly not the only factor in actions taken.

[Patrick]

I would like to share something else I am looking forward regarding Covid19 vaccination.

For me, the best feature about this vaccination, is not the protection it might offer people (that kind of sounds bad, but I mean it in a good way), it is the impact it has on our governments.  If they feel that they did their job of protecting the population by offering vaccination, then it does not really matter how many people actually took the vaccine.  As long as it was offered and available to all, then maybe governments will feel their responsibility/obligation in protecting the population was accomplished and remove the mandatory social distancing stuff.

It will be interesting to see how that goes.  If they try to maintain mandatory social distancing on the basis that not enough people accepted vaccination, that would be quite telling.  So that's something I am currently using to measure the real intents of our governments.  That is the sort of thing that would give evidence to some kind of conspiracy.  But I remain hopeful that they will meet my expectations and lessen social distancing no matter the rate of adoption of the vaccine.

[confusedseeker]

Great news, monoclonal antibodies are really working, which lessens the need for vaccines:

https://twitter.com/Alicia_Smith19/statu...6007398409

[Ymarsakar]

"I understand this reaction of the heart center to happen when it is exposed to information or concepts that are antithetical to what is "good" for you."

Don't you remember a lot of people and lightworkers getting triggered by something and saying it does not resonate?

How many times was this reaction actually a resonance, just a negative resonance, because it was deep seated repressed trauma/shadow/unconscious wounds that were unintegrated?

I remember Patrick saying early on in the thread that he needed evidence or information, before he could make sense of certain propositions, then the links came afterwards. But if you are based on 4.4 intuition, how exactly is intuition supposed to make sense of logic and arguments?

The 2 types of resonance and the "not resonance" are

1. Positive reaction.
2. Negative reaction

Not resonance=no reaction, or boredom.

" As long as it was offered and available to all, then maybe governments will feel their responsibility/obligation in protecting the population was accomplished and remove the mandatory social distancing stuff."

Have people here ever heard about stockholme syndrome? Do you understand how that works?

[Patrick]

That is a fair question Y.

I prefer being shown evidence in support of arguments. For me that is not a question of asking for proof. It is so that I can have a chance of following the same thought process my interlocutor did to arrive at their conclusions. Without this I only have the much shorter statements we exchange here to go on with.

As you can see with what happened after I shared those links, it did give others a much better understanding of my point of view. Most mentioned they did not agree with either my conclusions nor my sources and that is perfectly fine. But the end result was people thanking me for having opened this window into my thought process.

Also, If we were all to start doing this more often, it would enable us to use a more structured argumentation style for exchanging ideas. We could even start refraining from making logical fallacies.  This last one, especially for those not used to doing it, is a very tough one. But I think even for spiritual discussions it would be helpful.

[Patrick]

Oh, I also wanted to talk about intuition making sense of logic and argument.

I do not see this as being separate processes. Even purely materialistic people are doing this without being aware of it. Although they are more adept at filtering out signals from the heart.

If you ignore signals from your thinking mind and only follow your intuition you will probably get in trouble, the same if you ignore signals from your intuition and only follow your thinking mind.

We are complex entities and the actual process is more complex than just these two things interacting. But I think this simplification will suffice for this discussion.

[Ymarsakar]

"For me that is not a question of asking for proof. It is so that I can have a chance of following the same thought process my interlocutor did to arrive at their conclusions. Without this I only have the much shorter statements we exchange here to go on with."

There are many empaths like you who have done what you have done here. You find some information that does not resonate with you, but you don't really dig at it to figure out why that is so or even why the resonance is very negative but it is not positive so you categorize it as "not good". This is a very common phenomenon in empaths that are less skilled and experienced. Why do they always think the emotions they feel are coming from their own internal guidance and themselves? Most of the emotions you feel as an empath comes from outside of you, is that not the case? Or is your life so imbalanced at the sacral, root, and solar plexus that you would be endangered by being confronted with information that challenges your preconceptions and pre chosen beliefs and faith? Is it not faith strengthened by undergoing challenges? Why would thus "negative sources of information" be something you need to avoid as not good for you?

This is a type of separation or rejection of catalyst. You asked for something, it was given to you, but you didn't make very well use of it. I am not referring to any video or links you provided, as I don't remember. I am referring to the links others have provided, such as https://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthre...#pid290716 DAVID.

This catalyst I refer to, is a type of initiation test described by q'uo and others. To level up in the chakra system, you need to constantly rebalance things. Even if you are in a state of peaceful manifestation, where your root chakra is taken care of by your abundance or prosperity, you ahve good interpsonal relationships of peace and calm via the sacral chakra, and you have a specific useful role in society solar plexus style, that does not mean you can so easily surpass the heart and the voice blue chakra.

It just means you are now qualified to take the test for the next step. Many humans are "taking tests" right now, but they don't realize it. They think it is something external to themselves. This is all part of the Plan. If humanity, whether individually or collectively, realized that they were taking a test and that the proctors were watching them, this would imbalance the test results, as some people will seek to share the results or get it from a previous class. Others will not act naturally and do things they otherwise would not do, because they know the yare being tested. They act differently because the yrealize the proctors are watching them. The cheaters stop cheating. We want to see cheaters try to cheat.

Part of the inability to integrate and unify consciousness, that Aion referred to once above, is to prevent humans from different grades from exchanging answers. So Patrick cannot give his balanced root chakra of abundance state, to other people, irregardless of who exercises their "free will right to know". Zed and others here like Agua, cannot telepathically transmit their theories and ideas and evidence to others here, instantly convincing them of the Unified Theory. Words are distorted, meanings are mistranslated, passages are missed. This is not the fault of any single individual. On the contrary, it is part of the Divine Plan. It is going as planned. Tower of Babel/Confusion/Law of Confusion. The words express themselves literally do they not?

The right to know is balanced and contested by the right to NOT know.

P.S. FYI I am speaking only to those actively engaged in writing here. So unlike others here, I am not attempting to direct my comments to lurkers or passing readers. There is no need for me to do that at this time and place.

[Ymarsakar]

"As q'uo suggested I did my research of all the evidence regarding vaccination. Actual evidence and not hearsay. So I feel perfectly comfortable taking the vaccine.

Regarding civil disobedience, that's the Elite's wet dream. They would use that excuse to strip off a ton of our rights.

What we need is inner work that will change every one from the inside. Once that is done the Elite won't have any power over us. Because even those in the army/police will have changed with this inner work and would not enact orders that goes against the will of the people."-Patrick

"I would like for this virus to reach manageable levels so I can see my family again Heart"-Spaced

One of the things Q'uo doesn't do is to state things too explicitly, as it violates the right not to know. That's because they are not incarnated here, so if they used their will to answer, that would be cheating or an exploit. They are not playing the game by the incarnation rules that require they first forget.

WHich is why I can say that waxxine=disease/corona.

Waxxines utilize viruses, dead or live. The disease is supposedly caused or linked to a virus. Q'uo explicitly states that there are a series of diseases designed and created to control Earth's population and make it easier to control.

In order for anyone to research waxination, they must first understand what a virus is. Exactly where do you think the history of virology and Western medicine came from? The same people who made the population reduction plan to begin with?

Secondly, a few people here have long ago, mentioned that one of their dear desires is for the lockdowns to cease and that requires the "virus" to be at manageable levels, so they can have their human dignity ,freedom, back and so forth.

Again, do you understand what Stock Holme syndrome is?

I agree that inner work here would be beneficial to individual and collective progress. However, is taking a waxxine "inner work"? Is researching topics you like and ignoring data you dislike, inner work?

Is appeasing the government so they stop putting a boot on humanity's face, "inner work"?

In the Socratic mode, why do governments dislike questions? Isn't this entire forum predated by a channeling where people asked questions and got answers? Why is asking questions, considered negative? Why is negative considered "Other" and thus rejected?

Why would the governments create corona and use civil disobedience to lock you down, when they can use corona to lock you down and use the solution to corona to strip off a ton more rights? Are rights from the government or Corona or waxxines, or is it from...?

[Patrick]

Y, I'll take the time in my next post to answer yours properly.

In the meantime I will ask this.  Are you trying to convince me of anything or just interested in my opinion ?  More to the point, what are you interested in getting from our discussion ?

EDIT:

It would actually be interesting to know this from all actors here.

So I'll start.  What I am interested in is in sharing of myself per se.  If I am countering an argument, it is not in order to convince. It is just me sharing how I see the very same picture that we are all staring at.  It is to inform only.  I appreciate getting the point of view from others for the same reason, it informs me.  So under this light, there should not be any frustrations and instead a sense of gladness and elation at the opportunity to know more about what is painted on the other side of the big rock standing in the middle of our gathering.  We are in a circle around a big rock with one big circular painting all around it.  This painting is telling a great story that will be hard to put into words.  I can only see the part of the painting directly in front of me.  By telling me in words the part of the painting you see on your side, I can start getting a better idea of what the whole painting is actually showing.  It's impossible for me to see this whole painting all by myself.

Now we can only do this using words, so we can only try to imagine what that part of the image actually looks like.  And this process is so distorted that it's nearly impossible to actually imagine the image as it actually is from the other side of the circle.

This means, in other words, that it is nearly impossible to all agree on what the whole image around that rock is actually showing.  It's nearly impossible to all agree on what that great story is telling.  That great story in itself is always and ever the same.  In time/space the image becomes painfully obvious.  I am saying painfully, because often entities will get the big DUH! after the incarnation.

[flofrog]

I find this discussion somewhat difficult on the level of love, because I see Patrick discussing ideas, while often answers to him, while discussing ideas, often are added with forward opinions on himself as an entity, and as to his inner thoughts process on which we have in reality no real knowledge. So if i look back at the thread, it seems to me there is a difference between treatment.

I agree with all sides it is a passionate subject to many, but please let us take a breath here.

[Patrick]

Thank you Flo.

I mentioned refraining from making logical fallacies because, in my opinion, it would help with lessening what you described.  It would also help diminish distortions inherent in any discussion.  But now I realize that I am assuming everyone knows what logical fallacies are, which again I should not (I really have issues to work on regarding my assumptions).

So here is a list: The 20 most common logical fallacies and a briefer one here

The particular one you mentioned is a very common one.  Ad hominem.  Readers will notice that the more skillful choice faced with this one is to ignore it.  Because it does not really contribute to the ideas being discussed and is normally not worth replying to.  I do reply sometimes even to these in order to share of myself more openly.  After all this is a spiritual forum!

Now, I am guilty of making a great deal of logical fallacies myself.  It would take much more of my energies to format my posts in a way that refrains from making logical fallacies.  BUT if others are willing to play, I will gladly follow suit.

[zedro]

My initial forrray into this thread was not even offering what I was going to do (did not answer the poll), but offered some potentials that were offered to me. I also sought to point out how some were judging those of not acting out of love, which I saw as manipulative and imbalanced. So I tried to offer some counter-balance while trying to remain neutral as possible.

As it went on we all got swept into our own personal philosophies, and sometimes I cannot resist challenging (what I identify as) people's self contradictory viewpoints. The Covid topic in general offers this in spades in everyone and every medium, almost without exception it seems. What was intriguing tho, was discovering what I see as a spiritual mismatch/misappropriation (at some point we mostly all become judgmental on this), a topic that accounts for the majority of pages here I think. It's very interesting to see all the different lenses.

But the real crux here for me is, I am challenging the notion that advocating for others that a permanent medical procedure is not only safe/correct by default (as dictated by 'mainstream' consciousness), but is consequence free in that advocacy, and is the default act of love, and those of countering views are acting in fear and perhaps in the agenda of STS members. The longer I stayed in this fray, the more I lost my neutrality/impartiality, because that was the normalized state of the thread (few remained neutral, it is very difficult over time because impartiality runs out of ideas to express). I view this debate mostly for the benefit of the lurkers, because I know the participants have already galvanized their positions, so having everyone set their cards on the table is more useful for people to gauge where they are coming from. We are all straw men in this discussion, because we chose that by participating. No one is being singled out who hasn't chosen to be so. I frequently drop out of threads when the communication erodes to a detrimental degree, or when I cannot truly offer my full engagement anymore. There is nothing to win here, it's all just to learn if we so choose.

In the end, I'm not concerned with the choices we make for ourselves (only those people make for others). The only 2 people I know who have (allegedly) died from Covid were vaccinated a few weeks prior, despite being in the same lockdown protocols for the past year (actually, more restrictive when they died this winter). (Note, this does not factor into my thinking, that was 'formed' before the vax was even introduced to the public sphere because we knew it was coming). My parents are taking it next week, and I've given them information to make their own choice. However they seem to believe they will be more free after the vax, even though the rules will not change for them, the sea will not part. I am ok with it, and I have my own thoughts that I will hold on to for now. I don't know if I come across as antagonistic, it is not my intent, teaching alternatives is, because I've always known that what we are presented in society is generally an illusion, and I've always been compelled to break that spell. It's in my nature, for better or for worse.

[sillypumpkins]

I agree very much with flo.... this conversation seems to be engaged with on a level that is.... wanting..... for something..... idk. what are we doing here? trying to convince others that we're right and they're wrong? thats what it feels like to me anyway. like an intellectual debate or something. i dont have a problem with intellect or debates (or intellectual debates), it's just that there feels to be too much "talking" and "telling", not enough listening or reflection....

just my thoughts... this thread feels sorta twisted compared to some other ones on here........ (ones that I feel more resonance with on a personal level)

love you all though

[Minyatur]

I agree very much with flo.... this conversation seems to be engaged with on a level that is.... wanting..... for something..... idk. what are we doing here? trying to convince others that we're right and they're wrong? thats what it feels like to me anyway. like an intellectual debate or something. i dont have a problem with intellect or debates (or intellectual debates), it's just that there feels to be too much "talking" and "telling", not enough listening or reflection....

just my thoughts... this thread feels sorta twisted compared to some other ones on here........ (ones that I feel more resonance with on a personal level)

love you all though

"fear leads to anger … anger leads to hate … hate leads to suffering - Yoda"

Subjects that relate to fear can tend to make the dark side of people come out more, as it creates a strong desire for control. I think the difficulty of this conversation is that the most polarized extremes that participate in it seem to deny their own fear as it relates to the subject while attempting to point it out in others.  So all sides of the conversation probably make more valid points than the other side is willing to give them credit for, but the discussion is unable to actually progress because both sides only desire to control the other side's perspective without desiring to grow in their own.

[Patrick]

As promised, here are my replies.

"For me that is not a question of asking for proof. It is so that I can have a chance of following the same thought process my interlocutor did to arrive at their conclusions. Without this I only have the much shorter statements we exchange here to go on with."

There are many empaths like you who have done what you have done here. You find some information that does not resonate with you, but you don't really dig at it to figure out why that is so or even why the resonance is very negative but it is not positive so you categorize it as "not good". This is a very common phenomenon in empaths that are less skilled and experienced...

I was not aware of being an empath.  Is that in relation to me talking about how I use my intuition ?  I actually kind of like the idea of being an empath, but I never considered being one.

Is that because if I had dug deep enough I would have inevitably reached the same conclusions you did ?

I would have thought that I had zero experience and skill as an empath.  I do not feel emotions of others around me.

...Why do they always think the emotions they feel are coming from their own internal guidance and themselves? Most of the emotions you feel as an empath comes from outside of you, is that not the case? ...

For me that is quite simple, I just don't know any better.  But I would remove the word "internal" from guidance.  I believe my guidance system to be a team.  Sometimes it seems to be made of legions of helpers.  Just a feeling I have, I have no abilities of knowing this and I have no obvious ways of communicating with them either.  The Ear Tones are not that helpful in context.  I miss the point they try to make very often.

...Or is your life so imbalanced at the sacral, root, and solar plexus that you would be endangered by being confronted with information that challenges your preconceptions and pre chosen beliefs and faith? Is it not faith strengthened by undergoing challenges?...

Actually, I put myself in "danger", as you say, quite gladly.  I like being challenged with new ideas.  Those close to me often believe me to actually experience cognitive dissonance because of my openness to new ideas.  It allows me to evolve much quicker.  There is a small core that is unmovable inside me though.  I take it to be restrictions I put in place before incarnation, but I have no way of really knowing this.

...Why would thus "negative sources of information" be something you need to avoid as not good for you?...

I do not avoid negative sources of information.  People around here could attest that I even study them (to their dismay sometimes).  I judge for my own self only which parts are good or not for me.

...
This is a type of separation or rejection of catalyst. You asked for something, it was given to you, but you didn't make very well use of it. I am not referring to any video or links you provided, as I don't remember. I am referring to the links others have provided, such as https://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthre...#pid290716 DAVID.
...

Are you meaning that if I did not reach the same conclusions you did from that information, that it then automatically follows that I misused the source ?

The separation or rejection you speak of is inherent in the process of seeking.  We all expose ourselves to many catalysts that we then reject.  They will come back again for another opportunity.  I do not believe we are expected to succeed on our first try with all catalysts presented.  In fact, I remember Q'uo explicitly telling us that we are expected to fail.

...
This catalyst I refer to, is a type of initiation test described by q'uo and others. To level up in the chakra system, you need to constantly rebalance things. Even if you are in a state of peaceful manifestation, where your root chakra is taken care of by your abundance or prosperity, you ahve good interpsonal relationships of peace and calm via the sacral chakra, and you have a specific useful role in society solar plexus style, that does not mean you can so easily surpass the heart and the voice blue chakra.
...

These things you speak of at the beginning of that quote did not exist for me at the beginning of this incarnation.  They only manifested after the inner work had been done.  And the way I work on my chakras is just the plain old method of working with everyday catalysts and trying to make good use of it.  Reading the Ra material has been extremely helpful in that area.

I would not say that I surpass/bypass the heart and the blue.  I'm happy with how my green is for the time being and I am working on blue-ray where I need a lot of work indeed.

...
It just means you are now qualified to take the test for the next step. Many humans are "taking tests" right now, but they don't realize it. They think it is something external to themselves. This is all part of the Plan.
...

Yes I would think the plan of 3d is pretty much just taking tests.  The veil enables very efficient use of testing.  As I mentioned before, I believe we come here to see how we will react while not knowing the consequences that our choices will have on others.  Ra/Q'uo calls this learning the ways of Love.

And yes, our fellow brothers and sisters are mostly unaware that they are here for making those choices or passing those tests.  On this forum many people are aware of this fact and are then able to make better use of the situation.

...
If humanity, whether individually or collectively, realized that they were taking a test and that the proctors were watching them, this would imbalance the test results, as some people will seek to share the results or get it from a previous class. Others will not act naturally and do things they otherwise would not do, because they know the yare being tested. They act differently because the yrealize the proctors are watching them. The cheaters stop cheating. We want to see cheaters try to cheat.
...

This is to be expected.  Many entities will take that opportunity to program tests for themselves that might not be possible to do on a planet where people are more aware of why they are there.  I think the function of 3d per se would still work quite well even if they knew.  You would still not know what the full consequences of your choices are on others.

I would say that if you know why you are here, then it is because you've outgrown not knowing.  Otherwise, the person would not find their way to such things as the Ra material.  This is a sort of gift that the self gives to itself when the deeper work that requires not knowing has been done.

...
Part of the inability to integrate and unify consciousness, that Aion referred to once above, is to prevent humans from different grades from exchanging answers. So Patrick cannot give his balanced root chakra of abundance state, to other people, irregardless of who exercises their "free will right to know". Zed and others here like Agua, cannot telepathically transmit their theories and ideas and evidence to others here, instantly convincing them of the Unified Theory. Words are distorted, meanings are mistranslated, passages are missed. This is not the fault of any single individual. On the contrary, it is part of the Divine Plan. It is going as planned. Tower of Babel/Confusion/Law of Confusion. The words express themselves literally do they not?

The right to know is balanced and contested by the right to NOT know.

P.S. FYI I am speaking only to those actively engaged in writing here. So unlike others here, I am not attempting to direct my comments to lurkers or passing readers. There is no need for me to do that at this time and place.

Ok and I would say that otherwise, it would kind of defeat the purpose of coming here.

--
We spoke a lot about me on here.  I do hope others will still find something useful that applies to them.  As you know, I would prefer we focused on the concepts themselves more fully.  But if this is more inline with the expectations you have for me, I will do my best to continue providing that service for you.

[Patrick]

I think the crux of this thread has transformed into being about this concept of the vaccine disconnecting us from source. That triggered a lot of fear in many.

The reason I personally do not fear this is that I simply do not believe this to be at all possible within the framework of this Creation.

Each of us, we create a model of what reality is for ourselves. It's all we can do really. I am quite happy with the big building blocks in my model at the moment and so I cannot be expected to move much on those areas. I am mostly fine tuning it. The perfect balance for each entities is different for each.

That could very well be the case for the majority on a spiritual forum and so there will not be much movement on those big parts of the puzzle for each of us.

We may have to recognize that even without trying to change others, even just sharing our point of view any further will just be futile because of this.

At this point I don't know if we are still discussing that. Probably since a lot of the discussion is still on the subject of fear per se.

[Minyatur]

I think the crux of this thread has transformed into being about this concept of the vaccine disconnecting us from source.  That triggered a lot of fear in many.

I think it is interesting that this brings a lot of fear when pretty much everything detailed within the material already does that. Our Octave is a separation from Source, its every sub-distortions add layers upon layers to it. The entire veiling process our experience is about is even a step further in wanting to intensify this separation. So why fear a single additional potential layer to what our entire Universe already does in the entirety of its mass?

Now, I'm not speaking about whether or not a vaccine can have such powers. I've personally already been blown away by the potentials of what can be allowed within this density, so I already have a certain mindset that I do not know the extent of what is possible or not, especially when you realize that we live in an infinite Creation that ever seeks novelty. To have beliefs that limit these potentials to me would be quite foolish and unhelpful in realizing the reality that I am a part of, which is done through an attitude willing to ever learn things anew and forsake past knowledge.

If we define the illusions as what creates separation, then to some the choice of going towards a vaccine or not might be a choice about turning more deeply toward the illusion or not. It really is in our nature, as opposable thumb creatures, to seek things through the material and this leaning is what Ra supposes serves the purpose of intensifying the veiling process, or we could say the purpose of intensifying our sense of separation from source. So personally, I do think whatever is well, but it still comes to a personal choice in which direction we desire to turn and this choice will have repercussions on our experience. So what Agua shared about himself was extremely personal, maybe it boiled down to him realizing the potential of a choice between returning toward the illusion or furthering his faith in his spiritual pursuit, just as maybe that this choice will have an impact that cannot be brushed away with just a thought afterwards, which is easily understood to be quite often the case with polarized choices. This could apply to himself and many others and be extremely valid, while not necessarily being either an absolute truth for everyone.

Then again, even if most turn to the vaccine and it really is a step in intensifying humanity's focus upon the illusion rather than turn to our spiritual nature, that is still well. Opposable thumb creatures will opposable thumb, it is part of their design.

[sillypumpkins]

thank you minyatur

[flofrog]

thank you minyatur

Indeed thank you Minyatur

[Patrick]

Nicely put M.  I did mention before that some might want a bit more time to do 3d work and if we are about to receive a big influx of 4d energies that will wake people up, those not wanting that yet would be provided with a way to achieve this 3d time extension.

I like your way of saying "why there is no reason to fear" much better than the clumsy attempts I have made.

I think I should give the floor more often.  I've been taking up way too much space in this thread.  

[LeiwoUnion]

Sometimes silence contains the most substance.

[Ohr Ein Sof]

I do not find this thread troubling in the least. I feel when we are able to speak openly to one another there is the ability to learn from the interaction.
In our own functional and dysfunctional way we are all trying to help one another. Some, with words that contain fluffiness and others with words less fluffy. It could be seen as a difference in perspectives and each has a piece of the puzzle another is lacking. If nothing else, we know where we stand in our polarized opinions. Perhaps we know more of ourselves now than before this thread began? And perhaps we know wherein our fears lie? Some fear getting ill, some fear making others ill and some fear the government not looking out for what is best for their chattel.
All points were valid, all make sense. Yes, some were a little judgemental, but maybe, some healing has occurred in those behaviors as well.

The relevance of such heated debates aids us in self discovery, it aids us with being able to "work things out" between each and maybe we can both forgive each and ourselves better preparing us hopefully with what is ahead of us, 4th density.

[Aaron]

After reading through the previous pages, I'm astounded to find no mention of Anthony Patch's research on the matter.



Before making an informed decision on whether or not to vaccinate one's self with this particular set of vaccines, I'd consider all of the following to be...

ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL STUDY:

Please take the time to view all FIVE of the following videos in the order I present them. It's a couple of days worth of watching as each video is about an hour and a half to two hours long. But the information contained within them is, in my opinion, absolutely essential.

The following are the personal notes I have taken while watching. Anthony asks his audience to take notes while watching in order to be able to communicate clearly what we have learned.

PURPOSE:
To modify and/or deactivate our third and higher strands of DNA in order to disconnect us from Source Consciousness/God (Mark of the 'Beast Computer System' - Tikkun)
To weaken the immune system and program it (and future generations') to be susceptible to future manufactured viruses.
(Pathogenic Priming)
Ultimately, to allow Lucifer to enslave more souls (increase negative harvest) by altering your DNA (name is no longer found in the Book of Life).

METHODS:
Hegalian Dialectic - Problem (COVID19), Reaction (Outrage & shock, mask/unmask), Solution (Vaccine & Mark)

Medical history/vaccine history

REAL ID/Driver's license

CONTENTS:
Initial COVID19 vaccinations and subsequent quantum dot "medical tattoo" contains...

Patent #(s) (not literally, but the materials and methods are patented)

hydrogels (work in conjunction with 5G signals)

nanoparticles/nanotech/semiconductors

nanodiamonds (possible black goo liquid crystal AI)

wifi connection (for monitoring bodily activity and quantum entanglement to Sentient World Simulation & Antichrist)

sugar-coated quantum dots with Luciferase (foreign RNA for silicon 3rd strand DNA)

Antigens which will turn the immune system against itself

Pseudouridine (pitchfork symbol Psi) to mask foreign messenger RNA

Pseudoouridylyl - nucleocide chosen to reduce activation of the innate immune system

16 genomic fragments of HIV make up the backbone of the vaccine and function as a vector for foreign RNA

That concludes the notes I took over the last year of digesting this video series. The following 5 videos are ones that I have cherry-picked and downloaded so that I can share them with friends and family after the power goes out and we lose access to the internet in its current state. Thus, they contain the most important information to bring you and your loves ones up to speed:

Video 1: https://www.bitchute.com/video/8k5ftsfaPYSf/

Video 2: https://www.bitchute.com/video/004z16MBLywS/

Video 3: (no longer online) https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Qvmmg9c...sp=sharing

Video 4: (no longer online) https://drive.google.com/file/d/1EPNuWxb...sp=sharing

Video 5: (no longer online) https://drive.google.com/file/d/1lHNA_Sv...sp=sharing

And finally, here is the link to his website: https://anthonypatch.com/

And one of the issues of his magazine which he offered for free: https://www.anthonypatch.com/entangledma...ume5-2.pdf

[STAR-ONE]

What I do not understand is how at the dawn of the era of mass vaccination, we do not take a little time to inform ourselves otherwise, to see if this vaccine is really worth the trouble, what are the side effects, what will happen to me in the near and distant future ect (there is LARGE information everywhere on the internet if you want to go outside the framework of Ra).

I'm afraid that for the undecided / septic the fall will be inevitable, not taking a position at this stage is equivalent to an acceptance, consent granted, free freedom respected = too late.

At this stage, it is no longer a question of debating the STS / STO questions, simply analyzing the facts, making up your own mind and at that point, the choice is yours, you have the right to know !

[Patrick]

After reading through the previous pages, I'm astounded to find no mention of Anthony Patch's research on the matter.

Before making an informed decision on whether or not to vaccinate one's self with this particular set of vaccines, I'd consider all of the following to be...

ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL STUDY:

Please take the time to view all FIVE of the following videos in the order I present them. It's a couple of days worth of watching as each video is about an hour and a half to two hours long. But the information contained within them is, in my opinion, absolutely essential.

The following are the personal notes I have taken while watching. Anthony asks his audience to take notes while watching in order to be able to communicate clearly what we have learned.
...

Hello Aaron, it's been a while!

I don't wish to take up too much space again in this thread.  I just need more information.

I started on the first video and at around the 05:25 mark he mentions the final outcome being the mark of the beast and the damnation of the soul.

Of course, I am familiar with those concepts being from a Catholic background.  It's just that after integrating the Ra material, I shed those concepts.  Now if I'm going to make sense of those videos I think I would have to agree with its premise at the least.

So I started a new thread for those interested in discussing this.

https://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthre...?tid=18986

I think this is a worthy discussion to have.

[Agua]

removed

[Patrick]

Agua, this seems to mean that your healing technique, with those plants, are negatively affected by this particular vaccine.

This makes much more sense to me now, regarding the vision or interaction with your plant spirit that you shared with us before.  They were basically letting you know that this thing would interfere with your work.

Thank you for sharing this.  It sheds a lot more light for me.

[Agua]

removed

[Patrick]

No. In fact I have pretty much zero experience in that department. Apart from Alcohol.

Although, since it became legal in Canada, I tried THC/CBD oil under the tongue and kept increasing the dosage with one hour of interval in between each increment.  That did not have much effect on me.  Maybe I'm just naturally high all the time without that stuff.