Are you going to take the vaccine?

[Glow]

I also have no way to assume nor does the material imply one can be kept from exchanges with mind/body and spirit. The only way would be by choice and the choice to sleep.

Actually I think that is a big part of the material and kind of what healing and inner work revolves around, to ameliorate the patterns of energy influxes.

That is the quote I had in mind when I said it was possible that the exchange between the different portions of mind/body/spirit can not efficiently:

66.9 Questioner: Now as the healer approaches an other-self to do the healing we have a situation where the other-self has, through programming of catalyst, possibly created a condition which is viewed as a condition needing healing. What is the situation and what are the ramifications of the healer acting upon a condition of programmed catalyst to bring about healing? Am I correct in assuming that in doing this healing, the programmed catalyst is useful to the one to be healed in that the one to be healed then becomes aware of what it wished to become aware of in programming the catalyst? Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. Your thinking cannot be said to be completely incorrect but shows a rigidity which is not apparent in the flow of the experiential use of catalyst.

The role of the healer is to offer an opportunity for realignment or aid in realignment of either energy centers or some connection between the energies of mind and body, spirit and mind, or spirit and body. This latter is very rare.

The seeker will then have the reciprocal opportunity to accept a novel view of the self, a variant arrangement of patterns of energy influx. If the entity, at any level, desires to remain in the configuration of distortion which seems to need healing it will do so. If, upon the other hand, the seeker chooses the novel configuration, it is done through free will.

This is one great difficulty with other forms of energy transfer in that they do not carry through the process of free will as this process is not native to yellow ray.

Being open to that many things are possible is not necessarily fear, I'd say instead that only a closed mind is driven by fear.

The mind/body portion of ourselves is a creatures of this density and subjects to its many laws, I do not remember any portion of the material that hints otherwise. It is a bit like how Patrick said the soul is unaffected by any physical event like a nuclear bomb, yet the material stated that both the souls involved in those events and the planet are still in need of healing from the trauma at the time of the channeling.

Like I keep saying, I believe our experience is much more intricate than some make it out to be

I know you are communicating in good faith.

I just honestly see the affor mentioned preincarnative distortions and blockages created through catylist (which generally working through them and as a result awakening is the point of an incarnation) to be very different than taking a vaccine that cuts off ones ability to do so.

As to the nuclear thing, the incarnation is over, to me that is very different than being further cut off from divinity. You are needing healing sure but you are getting healing.

I appreciate you bringing that up and the attempt to clarify. I still just see it as 1 thing. Preincarnative blockages that move us to heal and connect, vs a vaccine removing an ability to do so as not 1 proving the other.

Thank you for your attempt to find shared understanding.

[Glow]

I seriously don't care what happens to my current physical body in this incarnation.  If the Creator wants to use it to experience a Zombie apocalypse, so be it !  I'm also glad to donate it to science.

I like that, what would be a zombie apocalypse storyline if no one was willing to play the zombie.

Did you see the midnight gospel episode where the zombies were basically experiencing a higher vibrational unity consciousness existence and just vibing till they unfortunately got cured and returned to separation consciousness ?

Looked pretty great

[zedro]

An aside - I wonder what the original poster “throwawaynegative” intent was in creating this thread and if after 15 pages they feel it was a successful polarization attempt.

How is it polarizing? That seems to imply there is only one correct choice and any discussion despite that serves to divide? I think it plainly presented what polls do, show where people stand, except with the benefit of revealing why people feel the way they do. It can seem polarizing, but in revealing ourselves in a respectful way, it can actually be more harmonizing as it allows room for empathy. People's divergeant choices don't need to be united, we just understanding and acceptance. The fact that people care enough to take the time should say it all.

[Patrick]

I appreciate very much being exposed to the different points of view and all the time people take to share.

[zedro]

That may be so.  But it's how I experience it personally.  When I follow the links provided and watch the videos or read the articles, I am hit like a train by the repulsion my intuition provides me.  It just reeks of negativity, fear and disinformation.

That is why I mentioned a couple times in this thread that I just cannot understand how anyone could resonate with such information.  It's completely beyond me.

There are certainly terrible messagers out there, and that is also by design (like how the serious UFO community got infiltrated with corrupted sources to nullify the subject matter). So while there are very responsible and fact based sources out there, offering healthy skepticism and whistleblowers, you will also have 'counter-intelligence' being run to discredit and drown out the respectable sources (who are also getting tar and feathered, and run out of society and discourse, leaving only the crazy voices). There's a reason why it's hard to find the legitimate sources/evidence and easy to find the crackpots/junk, because the legitimate ones get taken out very fast, and the crackpots are allowed to fester for all to see, attracting an (equally) imbalanced fanbase. It's all part of the propaganda system.

It's all about finding the signal in the noise, and the noise is being cranked up. I was lucky I got good guidance on this (for myself at least), because it is true how there is alot of dogshit out there, and it pains me to see it, even if there are some grains of truth. But ultimately it is not any media that single handedly guides me, some sources are actually only offering synchronicities/confirmations with more personal messaging routes. But we all don't get that privledge, and it is a mine field out there for sure.

[Ymarsakar]

"The fear-based narrative I am talking about is not about the virus, it is the fear-based narrative regarding vaccination.:"

As an empath you will of course pick up on humanity's fear. Is that not natural? Should they repress that fear and utilize it in the service of themselves? Or should they alert the collective that there is a danger incoming?

Any empath, which just happens to be partially or mostly wanderer/starseed DNA based, will need to develop to a more advanced level before they can filter out negative emotions. I don't use the term block, because that's just blocking your chakras in the long term. Shield or filter, are more useful.

Of course in this era of change, renewal, disruption, and burning down of the old, perhaps a barrier esoterically, is temporarily called for. As I doubt most psychics and empaths have the power or skill to deal with this due to their average insufficient grounding techniques.

Generally if you are here to "raise the vibration", then you should be in the faith vibration, which means you will have to ignore the lower 3rd chakra vibrations as that is not what you are here to deal with. In fact, you cannot deal with it because you cannot integrate them into your current incarnation. Many lightworkers and starseeds have this contract or mission or restriction. They are not here to redo 3rd density, but it also means they can't integrate human fears and trials so easily either. If you could, you would be able to do the work for them, partially, and raise the Earth by yourselves, which would not be allowed either way. If there is an involvement and taking in of too much emotion, then you create a karmic tie and that may not be what you contracted/planned for in the higher realms.

" But what I believe is that if, as an entity, you are disintegrated, you're awareness finds itself back to being the One Infinite Creator. We are basically the Creator with filters. So if you disintegrate the filters, you are then the Creator without filters."

I understood the data on this subject to mean that you would just lose all your accumulated data, like being burned in a great fire of the central sun, reset back to zero density. From a higher pov, I think you are right, as the energy just goes back to Creator and then gets shot out again, perhaps as 1st density or reserved. But from a 4th density pov, this would be a horrible loss to the collective and would negatively impact their soul and karma work of repairing and learning from Mars/Maldek.

"Ra does mention that a nuclear explosion can destroy entities near the center. But there is no need for fear since this simply never happens, because it is not allowed. There are always helpers protecting entities in such events. This is done so that the Creator does not lose one of its complex set of filters he created for himself eons ago."

However, it happened, so it was allowed. Do you see how that doesn't necessarily resolve the fears of humanity? If someone is afraid of drowning, you don't say to them "you are not allowed to drown". You teach them or you help them swim. And they can use logick. They can say "didn't you allow my brothers and sisters to drown on Maldek? What do you mean I am not allowed to drown?"

If someone is starving, you feed them. That is service. Telling them their theory is wrong or that it is based on a low vibration starvation pov, is not of service. This is where they are. They cannot collect the sun and moon light and feed themselves this way or draw chi/prana from the heavens and the earth. They are starving, due to lack of physical sustenance. So provide the physical sustenance or teach them how to fish, or just ignore them. Sitting there with them, and beginning to lecture them that we have read material from channeling that says starvation and dehyhdration is just an illusion you can think your way out of, or that they are STS and not the Creator, or some other type of separation human behavior, is not of service.

What do you think, is this what you are here to learn?

" but I personally weight Q’uo lower on my discernment scale."

You are not alone on this, but the guidelines for this forum specifically say "Confederation sources" and not "iamraw the Law of One books as the bible or scriptural authority". You know this happened in the past with Khem/Egypt right? They came down, and people started a religion around them.

"They offer beautiful useful material but I take what resonates as they advise as it comes through conscious channels, so is apt to easier be effected by human filters."

There's nothing wrong about that, although I would raise the point that Jim and others channeling q'uo at the time, were not using their "pro conspiracy" human filters to change the answers. I nfact, the opposite is true, these answers came against their human grain and they didn't really understand this type of information nor did they want to focus on it. But they did reask this question a few times, such as with SARs and now Corona.

"Also they spoke on the virus, not anything regarding the vaccine.
False equivalency."

It's not false equivalency, it is using the freedom to know and not know. Q'uo is specifically, in Austin's question, restricted by free will. Thus their answers will accommodate your right to know or not know. I choose to exercise my right to know, so I have been enlightened as to the fact that a "virus" and a "disease" when put together is called "waxxine". A waxxine has often used "viruses" in one form or another. And the "side effects" are severe at times, even more so than the disease it is combating.

The counter I already can see and have integrated. mRNA technology is new and does not use dead or live viruses, so it is safe. Well... the HIV retro virus is RNA that changes the DNA, so how do they know this mRNA does not affect DNA, so absolutely without years or decades of study? Or perhaps the HIV retro virus was also created in a lab, a popular theory believed by various groups in Africa?

So I have the right to know, and others have the right not to know. Very simple free will, I would think. Humanity is a bit biased, as they think "free will" means they can do whatever they want because they are granted the right to know the truth. Well, that is actually just a part of free will. If a child is to learn how to walk run and crawl, they must fall down. This is their freedom, to fall or walk. Freedom implies the positive and negative consequence together.

Q'uo's answer preserves your right not to know, and my right to know, in simultaneous quantum states of being. This multi dimensional wave front collapse, as per the double slit experiment, is what is confusing the vast number of people right now.

"I’m not sure why you assume others do not utilize them, but again unless precisely tuned and human distortions/ego are cleared they too can offer us incorrect information. Anything anyone is tied to can cause detuning."

Which includes the Law of One material and people's interpretations of it, and usage of the labels STS and STO. I'll go find an example in this thread right now.

"So suddenly people are adding to this frame work that there is a veiled choice(vaccine which most have taken many) that regardless of the intent/polarity behind our choice it seperates us from creator and “ha ha, tricked ya no more choices”

Only death can do that, death would just lead to harvest so what is being advocated here is much seedier. It just doesn’t resonate, nor with the supporting frame work of the Ra material that this platform is based on.

More apt for a beyond top secret or some religion where creator is a psychopath."

I put the additional lines there not because I address them but simply for context reasons. I don't remember who it came from, until I saw the name just now, as God is no respecter of persons. The line at the bottom is what stood out. The "Creator" does not reject the dark or the light. Like the sun, it shines down equally upon both or all paths. Because all paths lead back to the Creator's unified energies. Right now the Creator is sleeping or perhaps pre Resurrection, as all the energy (us) is fighting each other still. So the idea that the creator would be a "psychopath" is not an accurate interpretation or usage of the Confederation material. The Creator does not reject psychopathy and it does not reject compassion. This is the Unified field consciousness that humans don't have, and it does not matter how much Confederation material you think you understand or not. This is a human DNA issue, an issue of imbalance in the Mer Ka Bah, aka mind body spirit complex.

This idea and misuse of separation has been applied to STS from STO or vice a versa. The labels are the new tribe's "stranger danger" or "Enemy=Other" acting out.

There have been numerous instances where people have rejected an idea or person as "STS" as if that somehow means they now anathema, persona non grata, or excommunicated from the Religion of Ra.

Just understand that the entity or entities you all are using as a source of religious approval, is watching all of you right now. You may want to find a way to ask them what they think about your antics and shenanigans first.

"This is pretty evident when you look back through time at all the people who thought they knew what was coming next."

False equivalence. The record of others is not my word. And humans here, do not speak for iamraw's SMC.

[Patrick]

I am not saying that a nuclear explosion is not allowed. I am saying that destroying the template of en entity is not allowed. Your physical body is destroyed but the helpers protects the entity.

Losing a MBS complex because of a nuclear weapon never happened. There is no need to fear this.

That being said, I am not telling people not to be afraid. I am saying there is no need to be afraid. It's perfectly fine to let your emotions flow. I am not suggesting repression.

Regarding the virus and the vaccine, I am saying the same thing. There is no need to be afraid. If you fear it then of course process the catalyst properly. Don't ignore your fears and work with them.

Interestingly, here the Catholic Church has told people yesterday that they should not take the AstraZeneca or the Johnson vaccine because they say cells from abortions were used in their development. It looks like the Church prefers us to use the mRNA based one.

[Patrick]

Agua, I will be as direct as I can. I dislike sharing my personal judgement on source of information. But I do not see how else to explain my point of view any further without doing this. So here goes.

ALL the links that were provided in this thread as evidence against vaccination. All of them are from negative sources. It's that simple. Not saying the people/channels sharing the info are negative or have negative intent. Just saying they all let themselves be hijacked or swayed by the negatives at some level of the process. This is no surprise. Nearly all spiritual sources of information are hijacked at this time.

STS wants this virus and the next ones to do their job and the anti vaccination campaign comes from them.

As you can see, if I am wrong, then at least my whole self made sure no such information would sway me. I'm 110% convinced that vaccines are positive manifestations. This steadfastness does not come from my physical brain, it comes from my guidance system.

I see LLR as one of the very few sources of information still not hijacked by the negatives. A lighthouse.

This is only my personal opinion and I do hope that being a member of the CSC still permits me from sharing my personal views without it being given any kind of authority from this fact.

I really dislike being direct like that. Too often people will feel that I am judging them or their sense of judgment. But that is not the case. I believe it is sacramental that each of us be able to resonate with whatever we need at any given time.

[Ymarsakar]

"It really concerns me that so many L/L Research related or involved people (I am excluding Diana, also Aion who hasn’t spoken on the subject as well as Austin and Plenum, who didn’t speak yet) jumped on that train.
And that, to me, is a dark red flag not only regarding the forum, but also the channeling work of Quo."

It is actually their catalyst and part of their test, which means it is all within Divine Plan.

Certainly my plans are not in disharmony with that.

And I think I understand now why Agua is so focused on Patrick, normally Agua would not act in such a laser focus fashion.

If you are worried about the community standards, Agua, then all I can say is... it is being taken care of by higher guidance.

In my observation of numerous life incarnations by positive entities, the way they deal with trauma and Earth life is via a couple of principles.

1. Team work
2. Harmonization, the rising tide lifts all boats
3. Acceptance of trauma and personal faults, instead of separation or projection of internal problems to others.
4. Optimism in the face of hardships and trials.

That is of course not always true of everyone, for a number of reasons, but if you look at the number of successful people who have been able to forgive the serial killers and rapists that harmed them, then you can see it in various regression data, channelings, etc.

Hatonn is one example.

I don't understand what you mean by the channeling work of q'uo? That involves Jim's group and many here do not utilize it as their primary data point, but the Law of One books instead.

"the Church "

Heh, this terminology "the Church" is pretty amusing. Why do humans call a human church, "the church", what makes them the universal church for all?

[Patrick]

...
"the Church "

Heh, this terminology "the Church" is pretty amusing. Why do humans call a human church, "the church", what makes them the universal church for all?

Their hubris ?  

(It's my cell phone's keyboard that added the capital C)

[Ohr Ein Sof]

Our problem is that we try to be like the Ferengi to a certain point but not all the way. This creates confusion in people. The concept of money cannot be used positively ultimately, because it creates social stratas. Yet most people are trying to do so anyway.

In the end this planet is just not embracing STS properly. That is why 4d positive is establishing itself here. Not because we embraced positivity, but because we rejected negativity.

The concept of money cannot be used positively ultimately, because it creates social stratas

I am trying to understand; you are saying that there is not a way to take STS structures and utilize them in any positive way? Including money?
To me, you are saying that you cannot apply the higher to the lower?
This to me goes against the laws found in the spiritual journey of mankind (and even creation itself). Where one is able to apply the higher laws to his lower nature in order to advance himself.
I feel we are constantly doing just that; applying the higher laws to our lower nature and this would apply to everything as we are everything.

[Agua]

removed

[Ymarsakar]

"I feel we are constantly doing just that; applying the higher laws to our lower nature and this would apply to everything as we are everything."

One of the things Patrick has pointed out to us is that his personal guidance is very strong, but a personal guidance only guides that one avatar or person. It is not meant to apply to other people. So to Patrick, X y and Z are not possible or are always positive manifestations, and that is likely 100% true... for Patrick.

Is it true of anybody else in humanity? Does his personal guidance system apply to any other person on Earth?

"Not sure if you realize this, but again you didn’t even refer to the basic points I wrote about in my comment.
I think those are valid points regarding the discussion here."

Perhaps this may help as someone that uses both logick and intuition, plus other icks. As Patrick relies on his internal guidance and intuition a lot, these sources tend not to be comprehensible through logic or other debate styles.

So often times what can happen with a pure intuition based system, is that we just sort of ignore things we don't understand or wait it out.

[Patrick]

I am trying to understand; you are saying that there is not a way to take STS structures and utilize them in any positive way? Including money?
To me, you are saying that you cannot apply the higher to the lower?
...

No.  I am saying that, excluding the Elites, most people are trying to use the concept of money positively.  This creates all the confusion, like the dichotomies between capitalism and socialism for example.  We are doing our best so that money can serve the best interests of all, but we can't find a workable model to enable this.  The reason for this is that the concept of money in itself is a negative concept.

It's not meant to be usable in a way that is fair to everyone.  We think it's doable and so we try all sorts of societal schemes to enable this, but slowly it will come to pass that something other than accounting is needed.

Money was brought to this planet to promote the concept of Elitism and it worked quite well for this, but now we are trying to flatten the inequalities inherent to it.  This will succeed, but not by finding a way to use money in a perfectly positive way, but by switching to using something else.

...
This to me goes against the laws found in the spiritual journey of mankind (and even creation itself). Where one is able to apply the higher laws to his lower nature in order to advance himself.
I feel we are constantly doing just that; applying the higher laws to our lower nature and this would apply to everything as we are everything.

Applying the higher laws to the concept of money is what we are doing collectively.  My opinion is that the end result of this will be the realization that money is obsolete.  What you are talking about is what is going to result in humans using something other than money eventually.

For example, reverse accounting completely fixes the issue of poverty and the issues of strata. But that would still just be a stopgap measure.

[Patrick]

Agua, I'm sorry if I am not directly addressing each sentences of each posts.  I feel I am touching on the crux in my replies and do not know how to do a better job of it.  I am not deliberately ignoring parts of a post.  I do not quote the whole thing, but my replies normally applies to all the points raised.  At least what I was able to perceive.  Maybe Ymarsakar's evaluation is on target.  

Also, there are many avenues of discussions that are not within me to engage on.  For example, I do not like discussing people or their intentions.  I prefer by far discussing ideas.

I have been told many times that this can be frustrating for others.  They want answers!  Maybe they would even like a fight so to speak or a more heated debate.  I'm not the person for this sort of thing.  This service will have to be provided by others.  It's not in me.

That being said, I will do a valiant effort in my next post.  I will quote your post and try to answer all the parts.  We'll see if this fits your expectations better.  Let me know.

[sillypumpkins]

Something about reading this conversation makes me feel intensely uncomfortable. Thanks to all participating for the catalyst

[Patrick]

...
This insane amount of fear that a large portion of humanity seems to be in is the very basis for the vaccine.
Without that there wouldnt even be a need for a vaccine let alone a discussion about it.

That’s obviously the invisible elephant in the room that must not be talked about.
So no one feels fear. But a simple observation shows that all actions are based on that fear that is said to not exist.

(Heart neurosis Type B, I’ll explain later)
...

That is not how I see it.  The basis for the vaccine is just the demand for a cure to a health issue.

I do not fear this virus yet I wish for a cure for it nonetheless.  Like I don't fear having a simple cold, but would really like having a permanent cure for it as well.

You believe that if people did not fear Covid at all, they would not want a cure for it ?

...
The whole discussion is based on a virus being an agressor and humans being the victim, is that really something you don’t see?
...

Ok, so just on that level.  We have a virus that humans can catch.  If you catch it, it might be an unpleasant experience.  Now what do you expect humans to do with this ?  We try to find a solution.  The solution we, as a collective reality, came up with is vaccination.

It's just normal problem solving.

...
So you say there is no fear and simply turn the tables and say those warning against the whole insane narrative spread fear!

Thats surely arguable, since I acknowledge the fact many don’t feel any fear.
However I find it strange to completely remove that from the equation.

It’s a reversing of causalities in my opinion and I would call that really manipulative.

(Explanation: Heart  neurosis is a psychological phenomenon where someone constantly feels their life threatening and attributes this to an outer thread, although in truth it’s a leakthrough of a trauma-related fear. Type A feels that fear and,acts accordingly, Type B suppresses that fear, but acts completely based on that fear and manipulates his surrounding to make him feel safe)

I am sure those supporting the vaccine would not agree
...

I am not saying there is no fear.  I am saying there is no need to fear either the virus or vaccination (or nuclear weapons).

The spreading of fear is just what I observed while informing myself using the provided links.  The contraction of the heart center.  I understand this reaction of the heart center to happen when it is exposed to information or concepts that are antithetical to what is "good" for you.  This is of course a very individual process.  It's your self making a personal judgment for your self only.  Hence why I am just sharing my opinion and certainly not telling people what is good for them.  I think we all have the possibility to recognize what is good for us.  This is not put in practice nearly enough on this planet, but we all come with this built-in.

I am not saying their intent is to spread fear, but that is what they are doing from my point of view.  Also, for some of it, I did not feel the fear spreading angle per se, rather more like confusion/uncertainty.

...
Still, I find this whole discussion lacks honesty and is more or less manipulative.
...

If you do not mind, I would like you to provide an example of what you perceived to be manipulative ?  That is certainly not my intent, but I will admit that I am a very good manipulator.  I discovered this when I was much younger, about 30 years ago, and decided that this is not a skill I wish to use in this lifetime.  Yet we all suffer from slipups and I remain open to being shown the error of my ways if you spotted an instance.

...
What really concerns me  ich more than that, and just as Patrick I speak to the watchers, lurkers and bystanders on the internet:

It really concerns me that so many L/L Research related or involved people (I am excluding Diana, also Aion who hasn’t spoken on the subject as well as Austin and Plenum, who didn’t speak yet) jumped on that train.
And that, to me, is a dark red flag not only regarding the forum, but also the channeling work of Quo.

If such a fear-based background and such an obvious lack of willingness to view it with at least a basic self-honesty is the foundation for channeling material that is meant to offer guidance to seekers, then I am deeply concerned!
...

I am not sure I understand how you arrived at those conclusions from our discussion, but I cannot say I share it.

I do wish this will not prevent you from making good use of LLR's material in regards to the portions that you do resonate with.

...
And to everybody out there I can only recommend applying utmost discernment when dealing with that stuff.

To be honest, that’s how I see many sources getting corrupted.
Not by bad intentions, but by blindness, lack of discernment and unwillingness to take into account one’s own hidden aspects!

I could not agree more.

Patrick, thanks for being direct!

So I offer you being direct in return:

Not sure if you realize this, but again you didn’t even refer to the basic points I wrote about in my comment.
I think those are valid points regarding the discussion here.
...

I do hope my efforts were more satisfactory this time around ?  Not sure I am going to spend this much efforts all the time in the future, we will see.  The longer the post, the more diminishing returns there is for the expanded energy.  Since people do not read (especially walls of text).  But I figured that the effort is warranted, since to reach one is to reach all.

...
But it seems to be a pattern that you just speak about something different.
I wonder if that’s a rhetorical trick or if I communicate so unclear that repeatedly my whole point is being missed.
...

Maybe a bit rhetorical, but not the trick part please.  I see it more like parables.  I do not want to make offense, it would just take away from the main subject being discussed.  So I make use of examples that I perceive to be very similar, but which I believe has less charge attached to it regarding a very charged subject.  I suffer from thinking this will be obvious to others, which is not the case.  I should probably disclose it upfront when making use of that communication tool.

...
Whatever the reason, I see no need for a,discussion lead in that style.
Also, with the actual foundation of the whole subject, fear surrounding the virus, being totally ignored, it also doesn’t make any sense.

As for the „lighthouses“ you spoke about:
Well, if there is fear that is made invisible in this subject, I am pretty sure similar fear underlies the whole thing.
That is not my understanding of „lighthouse“ that’s actually my understanding of how the dark side creeps in!

But so what...

I sincerely hope I am wrong about the vaccine and I hope you all made the right choices for your path!

I sincerely hope I was able to shed some light on the discussion with this current post.

Also, I will take this opportunity to mention that I do not see just two sides here.  I do not see one side that is pro-vaccination and another that is anti-vaccination.  The whole thing is much more complex than that and reducing it like this would be counterproductive to say the least.

[sillypumpkins]

Patrick, you still seem to be totally missing what Agua is saying in the quotes above

[zedro]

It's what the Tower of Babel is for

[Patrick]

Something about reading this conversation makes me feel intensely uncomfortable. Thanks to all participating for the catalyst

Yeah, it's one of those threads again...

Always excellent catalyst provider (especially when working on blue-ray).

[Aion]

I don't have much time before work, nor too much energy in my current state, this is a very tangled Gordian Knot in this thread and I want to make some small attempt to cut it.

Every concept, every idea, belief or perspective that exists is experienced in duality. That is to say, whatever belief/idea there is, there also exists the opposite.

Humanity is a vehicle of expression for the polarity of the universal mind. Thus, humanity is naturally polarized according to the duality of ideas.

In between all that, is the unity, what we call the 'truth'. This thread (and I suppose any thread), to me, looks like a Hall of Mirrors. The Creator is the only one looking in.

I would not purport to tell anyone what to belief, what they know or don't know, or even try to offer what I might be think is "truth", while at the same time being trapped by language that is bound by possessive notions.

In an effort to move towards healing, which relates to health which derives from the concept of wholeness, I will parrot myself as usual.

5.2 Questioner: We have decided to accept, if offered, the honor/duty of learning/teaching the healing process. I would ask as to the first step which we should accomplish in becoming effective healers.

Ra: I am Ra. We shall begin with the first of the three teachings/learnings.

We begin with the mental learn/teachings necessary for contact with intelligent infinity. The prerequisite of mental work is the ability to retain silence of self at a steady state when required by the self. The mind must be opened like a door. The key is silence.

Within the door lies an hierarchical construction you may liken unto geography and in some ways geometry, for the hierarchy is quite regular, bearing inner relationships.

To begin to master the concept of mental discipline it is necessary to examine the self. The polarity of your dimension must be internalized. Where you find patience within your mind you must consciously find the corresponding impatience and vice versa. Each thought that a being has, has in its turn an antithesis. The disciplines of the mind involve, first of all, identifying both those things of which you approve and those things of which you disapprove within yourself, and then balancing each and every positive and negative charge with its equal. The mind contains all things. Therefore, you must discover this completeness within yourself.

The second mental discipline is acceptance of the completeness within your consciousness. It is not for a being of polarity in the physical consciousness to pick and choose among attributes, thus building the roles that cause blockages and confusions in the already-distorted mind complex. Each acceptance smooths part of the many distortions that the faculty you call judgment engenders.

The third discipline of the mind is a repetition of the first but with the gaze outward towards the fellow entities that it meets. In each entity there exists completeness. Thus, the ability to understand each balance is necessary. When you view patience, you are responsible for mirroring in your mental understanding patience/impatience. When you view impatience, it is necessary for your mental configuration of understanding to be impatience/patience. We use this as a simple example. Most configurations of mind have many facets, and understanding of either self polarities, or what you would call other-self polarities, can and must be understood as subtle work.

The next step is the acceptance of the other-self polarities, which mirrors the second step.

These are the first four steps of learning mental discipline. The fifth step involves observing the geographical and geometrical relationships and ratios of the mind, the other mind, the mass mind, and the infinite mind.

The second area of learn/teaching is the study/understanding of the body complexes. It is necessary to know your body well. This is a matter of using the mind to examine how the feelings, the biases—what you would call the emotions—affect various portions of the body complex. It shall be necessary to both understand the bodily polarities and to accept them, repeating in a chemical/physical manifestation the work you have done upon the mind bethinking the consciousness.

The body is a creature of the mind’s creation. It has its biases. The biological bias must be first completely understood and then the opposite bias allowed to find full expression in understanding. Again, the process of acceptance of the body as a balanced, as well as polarized, individual may then be accomplished.

It is then the task to extend this understanding to the bodies of the other-selves whom you will meet. The simplest example of this is the understanding that each biological male is female; each biological female is male. This is a simple example. However, in almost every case wherein you are attempting the understanding of the body of self or other-self, you will again find that the most subtle discernment is necessary in order to fully grasp the polarity complexes involved.

At this time we would suggest closing the description until the next time of work so that we may devote time to the third area commensurate with its importance.
We can answer a query if it is a short one before we leave this instrument.

Despite the idea that all is the Creator, every possible perspective exists, which includes every "not Creator" perspective. Which means that each and every individual personality is just as 'real' as the Creator, and just as valid in its existence. Unity does not stem from reduction, to me, but from relationship. The alchemists poetically called it the "Marriage of the Red King and the White Queen".

Through this thread we have certainly seen and made clear our opposites, gone through the alchemical process of Separation, yet now through the process of Mediation we might Reciprocate ourselves and find some sense of Equilibrium and Rhythm, bringing some Conclusion to the cycle, perhaps?

[Patrick]

Patrick, you still seem to be totally missing what Agua is saying in the quotes above

LOL !

Well you have me literally laughing out loud now.

I guess I am completely blind to it.  Would you care to have a go at it ?  Sometimes, having the same thing repeated by someone else using other words makes a world of difference.

[Diana]

What really concerns me  ich more than that, and just as Patrick I speak to the watchers, lurkers and bystanders on the internet:

I post here for much the same reason. It is not so much that I enjoy discussing these great topics, which, in doing so reveals deep understandings of self and the world we live in. But there are many who come here just to read, so I feel compelled to add my often out-of-the-box opinions for consideration. 

In this way, we all add to the collective, and bring information in the form of personal perceptions to the surface to be examined. It's really great to be able to communicate in this way.

[sillypumpkins]

@Patrick - indeed!

and hehehehe well im tickled to see there's still some humor around :p

i really don't want to distort what agua said so i am extremely hesitant to just reword what he said

this is the sticking point for me, though, and also seems to be part of the thing you're maybe not seeing:

...
This insane amount of fear that a large portion of humanity seems to be in is the very basis for the vaccine.
Without that there wouldnt even be a need for a vaccine let alone a discussion about it.

That’s obviously the invisible elephant in the room that must not be talked about.
So no one feels fear. But a simple observation shows that all actions are based on that fear that is said to not exist.

I really don't know how to make it anymore clear than how agua put it here..... I tried but my efforts felt.... redundant.

and @ diana above I agree so much

[Patrick]

@Patrick - indeed!

and hehehehe well im tickled to see there's still some humor around :p

i really don't want to distort what agua said so i am extremely hesitant to just reword what he said

this is the sticking point for me, though, and also seems to be part of the thing you're maybe not seeing:

...
This insane amount of fear that a large portion of humanity seems to be in is the very basis for the vaccine.
Without that there wouldnt even be a need for a vaccine let alone a discussion about it.

That’s obviously the invisible elephant in the room that must not be talked about.
So no one feels fear. But a simple observation shows that all actions are based on that fear that is said to not exist.

I really don't know how to make it anymore clear than how agua put it here..... I tried but my efforts felt.... redundant.

and @ diana above I agree so much

That's ok, just highlighting the specific section is very useful.  Thank you for that.  I'm still wearing a big grin by the way.

Now, I think I am going to switch to asking questions in order to help remove the big log in my eye.

@Agua (or anyone really)

That fear of a large portion of humanity you are talking about, is that the fear of the virus or the fear of vaccination or something else ?

The need for vaccination would not be there if that said fear was not present ?

Why do you say that it must not be talked about ?

Do you mean to say that without said fear, there would be no actions taken at all in regard to the virus ?

[zedro]

Without the fear, the vax would not be front and center to the degree that it is now, and certainly not how many countries are making it basically mandatory. This has never happened in this way for the flu, despite some years having the same direct health impact (the reaction to the virus has created alot of extraneous casualties that are now being associated to the virus in a fraudulent way).

So yes, the fear and propaganda is what makes this situation different, from say 2018 flu season which was particularly high. But for some being in the boiling pot of water makes it hard to differentiate the illusions being created. It also makes it difficult to identify parallel agendas, which is the bigger picture.

[Agua]

removed

[Ohr Ein Sof]

Something about reading this conversation makes me feel intensely uncomfortable. Thanks to all participating for the catalyst

Lol You're adorable. Thank you too

[flofrog]

I would like to add something.. I don’t doubt that living in fear of a virus is not very kind to your immunity or to your own pysyche. I am old and am never sick. I took the vaccine because my children were really fearful for my life even though they agreed that I am a tough old broad, lol

I just want to add, and I respect the different points of view here because I know how passionate each one is, yet I want to add that I have three friends who are nurses, one who succumbed in fact to the virus, but the two others both in different states and both in ICU, both say that this last year has been to them like no other year ever, and they still feel that they are living still today something close to a nightmare. So I understand the distrust of media, reports, etc... but it’s hard to read here that this last year has been like any other year, when you hear the testimonies of people who work there, everyday, in hospitals.

I mean my girlfriends have tried to cuddle these dying entities, and it is something which goes on each day of their life, they hug or virtually hug the nurses they replace because everyone is holding on to the love of their colleagues.

Agua, I wish there was healing too, just like you. But, I don’t know, the medical staff, it’s hard, it’s hard.

[Ohr Ein Sof]

Thanks for your effort above, Patrick!

And thanks, silly, for chiming in!

And, yes, Patrick, I am saying no such action would be taken without that fear and no such action would be accepted by the population without that fear.

Much more people die of alcohol each year, I am not aware of any such action taken.
We even make advertisement for alcohol.
Now that a year is over, in most countries it showed not more people died than in other years.
Its about the same.

But all of a sudden, everybody dies of Corona.
If people die of cancer, they are still counted as Corona deaths when they get tested positive.

And it would be just as with the flu, some would be infected, some would die, in heavy toi es hospitals would be full, just like every year.

And most of all, probably less than 5% would get the vax, that’s about the rate with the flu vax.

But,for a year now, intense fear has been created around the whole situation, that is what makes it different!

.....indeed