Entities from Orion

[LsavedSmeD]

Regardless of hidden hands credibility.

I just find the correlations to be shocking, not only that but the perspective on the "tree of knowledge" and the description of the first 3 distortions are unique.

[unity100]

'finding love' in something should not mean empowering that something.
basically with the attention you are referring to it, you are empowering them. you are not taking what they are saying as lies, but, you are finding them interesting, this, that, and from the way you and some others speak, you are even believing in some of them or taking them as truth.
'one' does not mean negative+positive. unity lacks polarity.

This must be some kind of cosmic joke. My brother, this discussion just reminded me of something I once read in an old history book. It was something about the Devil and negative forces that brought evil upon poor people of this earth. And something about righteous men who needed to defeat that evil force. Then there was something about judgement day that is approaching when the wheat will be separated from the chaff. And then there was some man who said something about love.

regardless of how you approach this, it is not wise from any angle, to empower a negative/dubious source.

I just find the correlations to be shocking, not only that but the perspective on the "tree of knowledge" and the description of the first 3 distortions are unique.

but what correlations ?

the correlations in between what 'hidden hand' says, and other things ? how can you trust correlations in between what a dubious source says and other things ?

if the source is unreliable, any correlation can be made up.

[xlsander]

i can only add that HH was a catalyst for me to even know about something called the Ra material - which then rang so true to me that i never had to look elsewhere again really.

I dont even know exactly anymore what HH said or not said - but I am thankful in a way.

[Ankh]

it is not wise from any angle, to empower a negative/dubious source.

CAUTION! I am writing with light touch here!

Strong words, my brother. Meaning of empower from http://www.thefreedictionary.com/empower

"empower
verb
1. authorize, allow, commission, qualify, permit, sanction, entitle, delegate, license, warrant, give power to, give authority to, invest with power The army is now empowered to operate on a shoot-to-kill basis."

Yes, I am the Head of HH!

[unity100]

they will be empowered, because of your interested attention. magic.

[Ankh]

they will be empowered, because of your interested attention. magic.

Yes so true, that means also that fear and sense of separation is also empowerment. Does that empowerment applies in love and unity?

[unity100]

they will be empowered, because of your interested attention. magic.

Yes so true, that means also that fear and sense of separation is also empowerment. Does that empowerment applies in love and unity?

'fearing' something is also giving a certain form of attention. it means you are keeping the thing that is feared in your mind.

and, as far as i see, empowerment mechanic applies for everything. it basically derives from the concept of focus i believe. if you hold focus, and keep some thought form at that focus, you empower it. positive, negative, unpolarized doesnt matter.

[Ankh]

'fearing' something is also giving a certain form of attention. it means you are keeping the thing that is feared in your mind.

and, as far as i see, empowerment mechanic applies for everything. it basically derives from the concept of focus i believe. if you hold focus, and keep some thought form at that focus, you empower it. positive, negative, unpolarized doesnt matter.

Amen, brother.

Students of Law of One, Brothers and Sisters of Sorrow with certain amount of memories from other dimensions, and still we are talking bad about others self. I am just wondering - when does it stop? Are you not tired of thoughts of separation? History repeating itself over and over again. Something doesn't seem to work on this Earth. Judgement day=Harvest. Separating the wheat from the chaff=positive/negative. Devil=Orion. Same old meaning, just new words. Are we not supposed to love? Just that. Nothing else. Or do we supposed to love only the positive entities, ie called christians in old days?

[unity100]

'fearing' something is also giving a certain form of attention. it means you are keeping the thing that is feared in your mind.

and, as far as i see, empowerment mechanic applies for everything. it basically derives from the concept of focus i believe. if you hold focus, and keep some thought form at that focus, you empower it. positive, negative, unpolarized doesnt matter.

Amen, brother.

Students of Law of One, Brothers and Sisters of Sorrow with certain amount of memories from other dimensions, and still we are talking bad about others self. I am just wondering - when does it stop? Are you not tired of thoughts of separation? History repeating itself over and over again. Something doesn't seem to work on this Earth. Judgement day=Harvest. Separating the wheat from the chaff=positive/negative. Devil=Orion. Same old meaning, just new words. Are we not supposed to love? Just that. Nothing else. Or do we supposed to love only the positive entities, ie called christians in old days?

where does it stop ?

it stops at the point where you are no longer affected by the polarization mechanic that was set for 3d-early 6d period in this galaxy. (dont know how far the other galaxies take this).

up until that point, negative entities will act negatively, positive entities will act positively, and no amount of accepting and being nonjudgmental or doing this or that or calling them to unison will change this.

this is a mechanic that was set by infinite intelligence for whatsoever reason at the start of this octave.

it wouldnt matter whether you are looking from an indigo viewpoint, or violet viewpoint or white viewpoint - if you look at the negatively imbalanced, you will feel its effects on you as a 6+ density dweller, if you look at the positively imbalanced, you will feel its effects still, as a 6+ density dweller.

its a simple mechanic of balance. they wont come to balance, until they walk whatever length they are to follow in that balance. it doesnt require you, me, or anyone else calling for them to come to balance, accepting them, looking them from a nonjudgmental viewpoint, this or that. they are souls walking a path. they will walk that path.

also, the approach above in your post, has more of green ray compassion characteristics, than indigo ray viewpoint, as a sidenote.

[Ankh]

up until that point, negative entities will act negatively, positive entities will act positively, and no amount of accepting and being nonjudgmental or doing this or that or calling them to unison will change this.

I am not calling anyone to unison accept myself and maybe some of the Brothers and Sisters of Sorrow. I am tired of this game. And I am just sharing that because maybe there are others out here who are tired. You will be fed with the food that is appropriate for you til you get tired of it and start to seek inside. And what do you find there? I find depletion of this game. Same same old thing. When not even we can destill love and unity in this world who can then? (Didn't we have this discussion allready?)

this is a mechanic that was set by infinite intelligence for whatsoever reason at the start of this octave.

There was a calling from this planet. We came. What are we doing? Same same old thoughts?

its a simple mechanic of balance. they wont come to balance, until they walk whatever length they are to follow in that balance. it doesnt require you, me, or anyone else calling for them to come to balance, accepting them, looking them from a nonjudgmental viewpoint, this or that. they are souls walking a path. they will walk that path.

And let them walk. They are Creator, yes? But what are we doing? Probably I see that from another point of view. I see history repeating itself, just with new words.

also, the approach above in your post, has more of green ray compassion characteristics, than indigo ray viewpoint, as a sidenote.

Is that not the next density? Is that not what is needed right here and right now? (Again, didn't we allready had this discussion?)

---

also, the approach above in your post, has more of green ray compassion characteristics, than indigo ray viewpoint, as a sidenote.

Yes. And you hit my catalyst. I am a being of unity and does not know how to relate to to this polarisation/separation. I just want to go home and hug my brother Lucifer and have a good laugh about what happened on Earth. Though it's not funny at all right now.

[unity100]

I am not calling anyone to unison accept myself and maybe some of the Brothers and Sisters of Sorrow. I am tired of this game. And I am just sharing that because maybe there are others out here who are tired. You will be fed with the food that is appropriate for you til you get tired of it and start to seek inside. And what do you find there? I find depletion of this game. Same same old thing. When not even we can destill love and unity in this world who can then? (Didn't we have this discussion allready?)

the correct approach would probably be to call the central logos of this octave, or infinite intelligence, to end 'this game'.

the very game you speak of lies under the basis of polarization mechanic. and if it is not changed, it will keep repeating itself in other places too.

moreover, seeing negative as creator too, does not mean you can take them as positive entities or unpolarized entities.

just like in the example of negative entity in Ra material, regardless of what approach you try, the entity will keep acting according to its polarity.

And let them walk. They are Creator, yes? But what are we doing? Probably I see that from another point of view. I see history repeating itself, just with new words.

at this point, i dont get what you are proposing, and what you want to happen, and what you dont want to happen.

Is that not the next density? Is that not what is needed right here and right now? (Again, didn't we allready had this discussion?)

---

i dont think we did.

Yes. And you hit my catalyst. I am a being of unity and does not know how to relate to to this polarisation/separation. I just want to go home and hug my brother Lucifer and have a good laugh about what happened on Earth. Though it's not funny at all right now.

the understandable and natural wanting to go home aside, i would like to say that the approach you are showing in this matter, is not of unity/indigo ray understanding, but more of a compassion, 4d green understanding. it seems to not see the differences, realities, mechanics, rules whatever game of reality was set by infinite intelligence, or ignore them.

basically, you may be wanting to go home and hug your brother lucifer, yet, your brother lucifer (if you take lucifer to denote random negative entity) is not at that point yet, and wont be at that point until its time comes.

[native]

What's HH?

Hidden Hand refers to someone posting on Above Top Secret, claiming to be from an Illuminati bloodline. He then goes on to explain their agenda, and explains a philosophy of creation identical to the Law of One.

It's obviously a hoax, as he's simply emulating the Law of One vocabulary. Anyone who knows the material well enough could have done the same.

[Ankh]

You pushed a lot of my buttons yesterday, brother. I am very thankful!

at this point, i dont get what you are proposing, and what you want to happen, and what you dont want to happen.

I see too many parallels here and my warning bells are ringing. There are the same concepts as from the old days of the Bible, we just using new words. At that time christians were "good" people. Then they started to hunt down the "bad" people and forgot about love. Are we supposed to love only "nice" people?
I've been raised by a really negative STS methods and I've had my share of their attention. I've been STS for years. Cold, manipulative and controling. That part that screamed inside of me I tried to kill with chemical substancies. So let the one without sin cast the first stone. Maybe it's still that unhealed STS side of me that reacts, but I do really not understand STO preach about unconditional love, and then the bad talk about others self. It sounds like a false prophesy in my ears when you (not you personally, I am speaking in general terms) talk about unity, love, acceptance and this and that, but not living it.

i dont think we did.

It was not a discussion, but I mentioned it in post #114 in "Cognitive Distortions..." thread.

the approach you are showing in this matter, is not of unity/indigo ray understanding, but more of a compassion, 4d green understanding.

Yes. That was green gas speaking balancing on a very unstable orange plattform. Still very fragile.

[unity100]

You pushed a lot of my buttons yesterday, brother. I am very thankful!

i think you actually yourself did all that was done, since after a point i didnt know what was going on. probably you were concentrated on this issue for some time.

There are the same concepts as from the old days of the Bible, we just using new words. At that time christians were "good" people. Then they started to hunt down the "bad" people and forgot about love. Are we supposed to love only "nice" people?

this actually is an irritating wisdom matter.

i personally dont like this polarity business. negative, or positive. i think it is far too absurd to imbalance entire existence, to balance it again, and force the entities into imbalanced paths one way or the other, in order to pass through 2 major (and long) densities.

there should be a way for entities which do not want to go one way or the other, to smoothly and directly move towards the densities, even if it takes longer. it shouldnt be 'either/or'. since, from what we know from Ra, whichever density you speedily conclude, you have to balance later, and at the end ratios are always the same. you just give from one density timewise, and add to another.

and in another respect, i see that this situation is a setting in which polarity is explored. and when the next octave comes, positive/negative will be history, just like mover/moved was. currently, anything that exist moves, but they are also moved too. polarities are found within the constructs, combined. i think it will be as such in next octave too. but probably another polarity will take its place.

the irritating thing is, this polarity thing finds you even if you dont want to do anything with it. there is negative polarized, positive polarized. both are imbalances in themselves. you, even if a balanced entity, have to deal with them, and have to polarize this way or the other, while going through 2-3 major densities, upsetting your balance, because 2-3 densities of this creation was forced to upset their balance in particular fashions. i definitely dont like this.

there the wisdom part comes into business :

regardless of how loving, accepting, caring, unified we are, there are 2 to 3 densities which are polarized in two directions. these are polarized, and will not stop acting polarized because you are balanced or not polarized.

you may love a negative entity all you want, but in the end, that entity doesnt want it.

lets break it down to the blunt practical situation.

you are saying you want to practice love. and end this duality through acceptance and so on.

ok, you went out and declared that, quarantine lifted, orion entities came. what do you think will happen ? will they stop being polarized and accept you, and therefore end duality ?

why they didnt stop it, when a conflict ensued in between confederation (of these parts) and orion, in which confederation sent love, and orion tried to enslave them then ?

basically, simply, they are firstly not in the level you want them to be to be able to see the situation as you do, and second, they have spent effort to polarize in the other way - opposite of the way which you want them to manifest as.

the wisdom here is in seeing the way this existence is created (at least up till this point), seeing how it works, realizing that the time is not fit for the desired situation to happen.

alternatively, for any entity it is possible to carry the issue to logoi, or infinite intelligence.

in the end, just like how all complex creatures (like us) are just cooperating colonies of bacteria, the entire existence is a cooperative colony of entities. any vote/desire counts.

[Monica]

'one' does not mean negative+positive. unity lacks polarity.

:idea:

Very astute and profound!

hidden hand aka dubious unknown source/person.

That is a crucially important point.

---

Students of Law of One, Brothers and Sisters of Sorrow with certain amount of memories from other dimensions, and still we are talking bad about others self. I am just wondering - when does it stop? Are you not tired of thoughts of separation? History repeating itself over and over again. Something doesn't seem to work on this Earth. Judgement day=Harvest. Separating the wheat from the chaff=positive/negative. Devil=Orion. Same old meaning, just new words. Are we not supposed to love? Just that. Nothing else. Or do we supposed to love only the positive entities, ie called christians in old days?

I understand your point, Ankh. But, at the same time, this is the density of Choice. Having discernment that something is of the STS path is not necessarily judging it or separating from it. Even Q'uo has distinguished between their path and the STS path.

Ra said they brought resolution of paradox. Seemingly paradoxically, it is entirely possible love and appreciate STS entities, without aligning oneself with their path, or with them as a source of information to apply to our path.

2007.11.10

You journey homeward. How shall you journey? That is the question of third density. Shall you journey in the light, seeking ever to become more of service, more loving, more giving, more aware of the love within each moment? Or shall you enjoy the dark path where the self is seen immediately as the Creator and all other selves are seen as those who would worship the Creator in you? Thus, the dark path is one where each who follows it attempts to coerce, manipulate, or otherwise use all other selves, to tell them what to do and to make sure they are useful to the self or moved out of the way of self. This also is a valid path, yet it is a dark path and a bloody path. There are those who prefer it.

We are not those. We are those of the radiant path. And so we ask you to re-member rather than dis-member yourself. We ask you to collect all of the pieces of your self and re-member yourself, to gather all of your members together. We ask that you love your imperfections, gather them to your bosom, honor them and bring them into your heart. And then we suggest that you remain in that tabernacle within even as you move upwards into the surface of life once again and experience the turbulence of the surface tides of life.

There is, to our mind, that constant flow of moving from the depths of the truth to the surface expressions of the truth, which in many cases are highly colored but always carry those seeds of the truth which lies so deeply within. All is one and all is love.

---

I am a being of unity and does not know how to relate to to this polarisation/separation. I just want to go home and hug my brother Lucifer and have a good laugh about what happened on Earth. Though it's not funny at all right now.

Right on! I agree totally!

That doesn't negate, however, the importance of discernment when reading Lucifer's books. We can metaphorically hug 'Lucifer' without adopting his strategies...the very strategies that work for Lucifer on his path won't work for us on ours.

Much love to Hidden Hand...but I choose to not heed his words, for he is a self-professed STS entity. His path is a violent and bloody path...

I can love him without accepting his counsel. His counsel doesn't apply to the STO path. How could it? As careful as Carla, Don, and Jim were to ensure purity of information, without distortion, I just don't feel that Hidden Hand, as a source of information, is to be trusted. Sure, there might be some nuggets of truth sprinkled throughout the text, but it seems inefficient to have to wade thru all the deceptions to get to those nuggets.

---

I see too many parallels here and my warning bells are ringing. There are the same concepts as from the old days of the Bible, we just using new words. At that time christians were "good" people. Then they started to hunt down the "bad" people and forgot about love. Are we supposed to love only "nice" people?
I've been raised by a really negative STS methods and I've had my share of their attention. I've been STS for years. Cold, manipulative and controling. That part that screamed inside of me I tried to kill with chemical substancies. So let the one without sin cast the first stone. Maybe it's still that unhealed STS side of me that reacts, but I do really not understand STO preach about unconditional love, and then the bad talk about others self. It sounds like a false prophesy in my ears when you (not you personally, I am speaking in general terms) talk about unity, love, acceptance and this and that, but not living it.

Ah, there seems to be 2 parallel conversations going...One is about loving/accepting STS entities, and the other is about trusting them as a source of information and guidance.

I think this is the source of the miscommunication.

We can love/accept STS entities, and refrain from judging them, without accepting their version of 'truth' and apply it to our lives.

I don't accept HH as a source of information. That is distinct from whether I love/accept him or not.

[Ankh]

i personally dont like this polarity business. negative, or positive. i think it is far too absurd to imbalance entire existence, to balance it again, and force the entities into imbalanced paths one way or the other, in order to pass through 2 major (and long) densities.

there should be a way for entities which do not want to go one way or the other, to smoothly and directly move towards the densities, even if it takes longer. it shouldnt be 'either/or'. since, from what we know from Ra, whichever density you speedily conclude, you have to balance later, and at the end ratios are always the same. you just give from one density timewise, and add to another.

I was thinking the same for quite some time. We get two choices right now. How about the third choice? Negative vs. positive and neutral - non polarity choice. Time is another aspect that I don't understand. We have the eternity - what's the rush?

Or (I speaking of myself here) I don't understand STO fully yet. STS - no problems. I get them. (And that's why it is so easy for me to destill love and light in their messages, taking only what's resonates.) STO is difficult. I get the service part, but in end we see that creation is service to others and the self at the same time. But is STO is about embracing all or not?

and in another respect, i see that this situation is a setting in which polarity is explored. and when the next octave comes, positive/negative will be history, just like mover/moved was. currently, anything that exist moves, but they are also moved too. polarities are found within the constructs, combined. i think it will be as such in next octave too. but probably another polarity will take its place.

Yep, so in the next octave we'll be sitting here again and scrathing our heads. Maybe next one will be about control vs freedom. That would be intersting til we find that creation is both. So we'll whine to Supreme Court of our Logo. Again. Neverending story.

you may love a negative entity all you want, but in the end, that entity doesnt want it.

But that's what I've been trying to tell you. I don't care if they want it or not. It's not for them, it's for me. When they choose to see that love, it is there, and they will do it sooner or later. And it will be for them when they want it. In the end it is not about them anyway. Others self and what you think they make you to feel is a big part of this illusion. It is always about you. Of course without certain help you cannot find what you are seeking for. As I said we are all one, and therefore both STO and STS, whatever these definitions mean. Anyway, what I want to say is that when I love them it is not for them to feel better. They don't care about that love, but honestly I don't know if I care myself whether they recognize it or not. I do it because it is who I am and because it makes me to feel better.

ok, you went out and declared that, quarantine lifted, orion entities came. what do you think will happen ? will they stop being polarized and accept you, and therefore end duality ?

why they didnt stop it, when a conflict ensued in between confederation (of these parts) and orion, in which confederation sent love, and orion tried to enslave them then ?

basically, simply, they are firstly not in the level you want them to be to be able to see the situation as you do, and second, they have spent effort to polarize in the other way - opposite of the way which you want them to manifest as.

I might been naive B.E. but I am certainly not that anymore. I am not blind. I see what happens in the world. And I know STS. But most of all I don't want anyone to be anything that they are not. If someone finds interest in exploring STS – fine by me. Been there, done that. However, what I do find disturbing is STO's bad talk about STS. Are we not supposed to be the opposites? No we are not, because we are one. Duh! One more time please, but lets change the names of polarity.

---

I understand your point, Ankh. But, at the same time, this is the density of Choice. Having discernment that something is of the STS path is not necessarily judging it or separating from it. Even Q'uo has distinguished between their path and the STS path.

Ra said they brought resolution of paradox. Seemingly paradoxically, it is entirely possible love and appreciate STS entities, without aligning oneself with their path, or with them as a source of information to apply to our path.

2007.11.10

You journey homeward. How shall you journey? That is the question of third density. Shall you journey in the light, seeking ever to become more of service, more loving, more giving, more aware of the love within each moment? Or shall you enjoy the dark path where the self is seen immediately as the Creator and all other selves are seen as those who would worship the Creator in you? Thus, the dark path is one where each who follows it attempts to coerce, manipulate, or otherwise use all other selves, to tell them what to do and to make sure they are useful to the self or moved out of the way of self. This also is a valid path, yet it is a dark path and a bloody path. There are those who prefer it.

We are not those. We are those of the radiant path. And so we ask you to re-member rather than dis-member yourself. We ask you to collect all of the pieces of your self and re-member yourself, to gather all of your members together. We ask that you love your imperfections, gather them to your bosom, honor them and bring them into your heart. And then we suggest that you remain in that tabernacle within even as you move upwards into the surface of life once again and experience the turbulence of the surface tides of life.

There is, to our mind, that constant flow of moving from the depths of the truth to the surface expressions of the truth, which in many cases are highly colored but always carry those seeds of the truth which lies so deeply within. All is one and all is love.

---

This IS a cosmic joke! I am really using a light touch on this one, and here it goes:
In "old days" folks used to quote Bible when they felt that someone was on the "wrong" side of the path, nowdays we quote Law of One. As if our own thoughts are not legimate enough. No disrespect to Law of One. If it weren't for Law of One I would probably be dead. So here I go participating in this game by quoting Ra:

"17.2 Questioner: Is it possible by the use of some technique or other to help an entity to reach fourth-density level in these last days?
Ra: I am Ra. It is impossible to help another being directly. It is only possible to make catalyst available in whatever form, the most important being the radiation of realization of oneness with the Creator from the self, less important being information such as we share with you."

That doesn't negate, however, the importance of discernment when reading Lucifer's books. We can metaphorically hug 'Lucifer' without adopting his strategies...the very strategies that work for Lucifer on his path won't work for us on ours.

Much love to Hidden Hand...but I choose to not heed his words, for he is a self-professed STS entity. His path is a violent and bloody path...

I can love him without accepting his counsel. His counsel doesn't apply to the STO path. How could it? As careful as Carla, Don, and Jim were to ensure purity of information, without distortion, I just don't feel that Hidden Hand, as a source of information, is to be trusted. Sure, there might be some nuggets of truth sprinkled throughout the text, but it seems inefficient to have to wade thru all the deceptions to get to those nuggets.

---

There is a great deal of caution to be taken while reading and understanding the material that is dear to your heart. When you resonate highly with the material, in this case Ra material, you are more prone to try to take it all close to the heart though some parts do not resonate, or even evoke a slight fear in the subconsciousness. In that case it might be "easier" to listen to other channels and only take what resonates in positive way in them, but is harder to do so with the material that is close to you, such as Ra material. In other channelings you can easily recognize the fear and negativity, but in the "dear" material it is not that easy suddenly, though both Ra (unsure right now whether they actually did that) and Quo states that we need to guard our thoughts while reading it. "Take what resonates" - and why is that? My bet would be on that fact that each is a unique portion of the Creator and needs to find it's own path/truth/what resonates. I've allready wrote it to you in another thread.

[kycahi]

I'll weigh in on this, but skeptical that I can be of much help.

I interpret service to others as being and doing much as we are here: wanting to be of high service, to personally improve, and not to make a big or small mistake through poor guessing--even Ra hinted (and more, confessed) that they sometimes have missed their mark in STO work.

Service to self comes in disguise as STS, say when an advanced being comes along, in person or through channel, and offers truly (and I mean truly) wise counsel. Word spreads and soon a following builds of people who, like us, want to learn.

Eventually, this wise leader chooses some few adepts who show quick learning and dedication (and something more) and appoints them as local emissaries and coaxes the flock to follow them. The adepts definitely have chosen STS, consciously or otherwise, and some of the followers may strive to become an adept themselves, thus choosing. At any time so far, a follower may find something not right and fall away. So might an adept too, discerning not to want to be this kind of "master of others."

According to Ra, our planet is set up to make STS a very tough style to adopt. Other planets, though, might produce masses of "adepts" that have gone on to being slaves and masters of slaves of STS.

If I am right about this, then the "polarity" here is not something that we are supposed to balance; it really is a choice. Not choosing means not getting past the choice step, so a kind of stagnation. This thread perhaps has exposed how the English language fails us by confusing what "polarity" can mean.

Finally, I support what others have said: there is no need to be on the accelerated study track. All of us are proceeding at our correct pace. If someone is not, personal problems likely arise.

Respectfully offered by
Lee

[Monica]

This IS a cosmic joke! I am really using a light touch on this one, and here it goes:
In "old days" folks used to quote Bible when they felt that someone was on the "wrong" side of the path, nowdays we quote Law of One.

It's not the quoting that is at fault; it's the manner in which it is done.

Offering a quote, to be considered, is not the same as demanding that someone accept it.

Offering a quote, in order to help explain one's point of view, is not the same as using that quote to prove someone wrong.

This forum's purpose is to study together, and help one another learn and grow, utilizing the information given to us by Ra. We have all, already tacitly accepted the Law of One as valid, though we don't all understand it in exactly the same way. But we do have it as our foundation; else we wouldn't be members of this forum!

It's true that we quote from it frequently; we are studying it! But each person here knows that it is their own responsibility as to how to interpret it, whether to accept it or not, whether to accept others' interpretation or not, etc. That is a key principle in the material itself: that we each accept that which resonates.

It is Carla's wish (and, I daresay, Ra's!) that the Law of One not be made into a dogma, cult, or religion, or that it be imposed on anyone. On the few occasions that this has been attempted, action was taken. This forum will not allow that to happen.

I think a distinction may be made between utilizing the information, and using it to impose on others.

Religious proselytizers often impose their religion on others, and that's why we don't like it when they quote from their book. But I don't see the use of quoting here at Bring4th to be in that category at all.

Is that how it seems to you? That we are all trying to impose a new religion?

If so, do you have any suggestions as to how we can study the material together, without coming across in that way?

As if our own thoughts are not legimate enough. No disrespect to Law of One. If it weren't for Law of One I would probably be dead. So here I go participating in this game by quoting Ra

I'm confused. Are you saying we quote the Law of One too much and should, instead, offer our own thoughts? Do we not all do that already? There is a great deal of opinionated discourse on this forum! (some have even proposed that members don't quote the Law of One enough!)

And yet, you have just quoted Ra also.

Yes, living it is most important. But why not support one another in fellowship and friendship, as well as help one another in our studies and life paths?

Are you feeling that this community reminds you too much of a religion?

If so, I would suggest not throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

There is a great deal of caution to be taken while reading and understanding the material that is dear to your heart. When you resonate highly with the material, in this case Ra material, you are more prone to try to take it all close to the heart though some parts do not resonate, or even evoke a slight fear in the subconsciousness.

This seems to presuppose that the Law of One was already 'near and dear to our heart' however does not take into consideration, that the first time we read it, it wasn't yet any such thing.

In other words, the first time I read the Law of One, it wasn't any more special or dear than any other channeled work, or any other book for that matter. It was only because it did resonate so profoundly, that it became special.

So it's not like we had a bias going in.

For me personally, the number of times a statement by Ra didn't resonate with me, or caused fear, can be counted on one hand, and still have fingers left over.

[unity100]

Time is another aspect that I don't understand. We have the eternity - what's the rush?

this is also what i think. when this octave ends, another will start. there is no end.

[Meerie]

I am playing with my thoughts here - Lucifer=Morning Star=Venus. Intriguing.

I think you are spot on. Lucifer means "light-bringer". Does that sound like a name for the devil? I do not think so, it is just that the christian church needed someone to put the blame on, a scapegoat.
Interestingly enough that does not work any longer and nowadays they have to look for the devil among themselves, what with all the scandals of child abuse etc.

[kycahi]

Over on the Humorous thread, turtledude23 brought up the Arcanum Number IV Card which prompted me to dust off my Book IV. That was a good thing, too, because I clearly need to read through all the Material again.

Anyway, I found something from Ra regarding the Choice. Keeping Monica's admonition in mind, I quote it here just because it might be relevant and not because, regarding my earlier post, it "backs me up."

95.24 Questioner: From that statement I interpret the following. If the Experience of the Mind has sufficiently chosen the right-hand path, and as total purity is approached in the choosing of the right-hand path, then total imperviousness from the effect of the left-hand catalyst is also approached. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is exquisitely perceptive. The seeker which has purely chosen the service-to-others path shall certainly not have a variant apparent incarnational experience.

There is no outward shelter in your illusion from the gusts, flurries, and blizzards of quick and cruel catalyst. However, to the pure, all that is encountered speaks of the love and the light of the One Infinite Creator. The cruelest blow is seen with an ambiance of challenges offered and opportunities to come. Thusly, the great pitch of light is held high above such an one so that all interpretation may be seen to be protected by light.

I was a little heretical--I inserted the new paragraph after "incarnational experience" and removed it after "cruel catalyst." This way just seems better to clarify Ra's intent and, as the words were transcribed from audio recordings, separating paragraphs must have involved guesswork.

I interpret (as a hunch, mind you) that "shall not have a variant apparent incarnational experience" means that the rest of this life, or perhaps a subsequent one will be easier, or at least less confusing, because of the purity of the choice now. If that's right, then we would do better to choose forthrightly than just kind of drift in the STO direction.

Lee

[Protonexus]

I find that intersting too. Ra told us this:

"89.28 Questioner: What was Ra’s average total population incarnate on Venus in third density?

Ra: I am Ra. We were a small population which dwelt upon what you would consider difficult conditions. Our harvest was approximately 6 million 500 thousand mind/body/spirit complexes. There were approximately 32 million mind/body/spirit complexes repeating third density elsewhere."

"Elsewhere" - where?

entities graduating at a planet which becomes 4d, join that planet, just like how 4d graduates are joining this planet at this point in time, even if they were originally from other sources.

moreover, had any entity graduated in another planet, and chose to go to venus at 4th density, then they would join Ra during their 4d experience, so, therefore, would have joined Ra.

Yes, but 32 millions of Ra didn't graduate to 4D in time for the Harvest and repeated that density "elsewhere". That's what interests me. Since Venus couldn't support 3D anymore where did those 32 millions of Ra: s population go? Just playing with my thoughts here - Mars, Maldek, Earth, or another Sub-logo? And why go to another Sub-logo when this Sub-logo allready had planets that could support 3D?

This is speculation of course, it is very likely that some portion of the Venus 3d population continued their 3d experience here on Earth when appropriate. It is a matter of convenience, the large portion of the unharvestables goes to the planet with the conditions most likely to encourage harvestability. The added confusion of transferring to another sub-logos system is not likely to accelerate the choice making.

It is a possibility that the Vedas are of Venutian origin.

Also Ra says two entities harvested negative from 3d Venus. They were wanderers from 5d positive but harvested negative 'accidently' into 4d. Being dismayed they had mistakenly gone negative they switched polarity somehow and joined Ra on Venus in the midst of 4d positive. Kinda weird, also provides a perspective that Venus 3d was still a bit confusing.

[Ankh]

Service to self comes in disguise as STS, say when an advanced being comes along, in person or through channel, and offers truly (and I mean truly) wise counsel. Word spreads and soon a following builds of people who, like us, want to learn.

Eventually, this wise leader chooses some few adepts who show quick learning and dedication (and something more) and appoints them as local emissaries and coaxes the flock to follow them. The adepts definitely have chosen STS, consciously or otherwise, and some of the followers may strive to become an adept themselves, thus choosing. At any time so far, a follower may find something not right and fall away. So might an adept too, discerning not to want to be this kind of "master of others."

According to Ra, our planet is set up to make STS a very tough style to adopt. Other planets, though, might produce masses of "adepts" that have gone on to being slaves and masters of slaves of STS.

If I am right about this, then the "polarity" here is not something that we are supposed to balance; it really is a choice. Not choosing means not getting past the choice step, so a kind of stagnation. This thread perhaps has exposed how the English language fails us by confusing what "polarity" can mean.

We had a swedish Wanderer who remembered many of his past lifes and wrote a lot of books about it. One life he remembered was about that choice. The name of the planet was/is Shermyl. After some time there appeared two large orders, Alpha and Omega. He became the leader of the Omega block, what would be called STS in this present time here. Leader of the Alpha block was a woman that he remembered previous life with. It was his soulmate from another world, world of Light called Kvartur Glon. They had no chemical bodies there, it was some kind of energy bodies and this world is placed somewhere near center of Logo, since they never had any nights. Anyway, his conclusion based on that many memories, that the colour of the soul is light, but the soul driven too far in any direction is not balanced. Duh! And that's what I maybe rebel at as well. Both sides exists. But I feel nausea when either side go too far. If others want to do it they are very welcomed, it is a joy to see a soul driven by the passion and desire. But myself considered, I don't want to loose all of my chilly distance and get involved in some kind of passionate space opera with no objective perspective. STO can harm others as well if driven too far, so it's not only applied at STS. STS is actually quite easy to understand in this concept as they are clear in their devotion and what they want – power and control, no matter the costs. What do STO want?

It's not the quoting that is at fault; it's the manner in which it is done.

Offering a quote, to be considered, is not the same as demanding that someone accept it.

Consiously no, but there might be an unconsious desire for it if it is not illuminated.

Offering a quote, in order to help explain one's point of view, is not the same as using that quote to prove someone wrong.

No it's not, but we are humans prone to make misstakes and it happens whether it was our intent in the first place or not.

This forum's purpose is to study together, and help one another learn and grow, utilizing the information given to us by Ra. We have all, already tacitly accepted the Law of One as valid, though we don't all understand it in exactly the same way. But we do have it as our foundation; else we wouldn't be members of this forum!

That's why I am here. Again, I am not rebelling the Law of One here, just some interpretations of it that challenging nothing else but my own biases.

It's true that we quote from it frequently; we are studying it! But each person here knows that it is their own responsibility as to how to interpret it, whether to accept it or not, whether to accept others' interpretation or not, etc. That is a key principle in the material itself: that we each accept that which resonates.

I saw a picture in front of me from the "old days" where people quoted from the Bible, throwing it in the face of those who were on the "wrong" side and I thought for myself – Oh my God, is this what we are doing right now? Again? Only with new words, wider understanding and more "cosmic" approach? I went outside of our house, gazed at the stars and sincerely laughed out loud. Believe it or not, it felt like there were others there rejoicing the same touch of light.

It is Carla's wish (and, I daresay, Ra's!) that the Law of One not be made into a dogma, cult, or religion, or that it be imposed on anyone. On the few occasions that this has been attempted, action was taken. This forum will not allow that to happen.

The above seem to be some kind of desire to control. In true STO spirit it would rather be that if some student of LOO would want to start any kind of Ra church they would be allowed to do that. I am not questioning Carla's decision here, just discussing the STO path and if there are any boundaries where acceptance is not longer offered.

Religious proselytizers often impose their religion on others, and that's why we don't like it when they quote from their book. But I don't see the use of quoting here at Bring4th to be in that category at all.

Is that how it seems to you? That we are all trying to impose a new religion?

If so, do you have any suggestions as to how we can study the material together, without coming across in that way?

As if our own thoughts are not legimate enough. No disrespect to Law of One. If it weren't for Law of One I would probably be dead. So here I go participating in this game by quoting Ra

I'm confused. Are you saying we quote the Law of One too much and should, instead, offer our own thoughts? Do we not all do that already? There is a great deal of opinionated discourse on this forum! (some have even proposed that members don't quote the Law of One enough!)

And yet, you have just quoted Ra also.

It is a difference to quote from the material when one wants to discuss a certain session or explore a topic in LOO that one doesn't understand yet, but it's a completly another thing when LOO is quoted because there is a disagreement in opinions based on other issues than study of LOO. That's what I showed yesterday by quoting.

Yes, living it is most important. But why not support one another in fellowship and friendship, as well as help one another in our studies and life paths?

I hope that it's what we are doing right now. Sometimes it happens in some kind of "bellicose" Earth kind of fashion way and I apologize for not always using the "brotherly" language. It is never my intention to harm others self though.

This seems to presuppose that the Law of One was already 'near and dear to our heart' however does not take into consideration, that the first time we read it, it wasn't yet any such thing.

In other words, the first time I read the Law of One, it wasn't any more special or dear than any other channeled work, or any other book for that matter. It was only because it did resonate so profoundly, that it became special.

So it's not like we had a bias going in.

For me personally, the number of times a statement by Ra didn't resonate with me, or caused fear, can be counted on one hand, and still have fingers left over.

It was like that for almost all of us I guess. It's not the beginning that is discussed by me, it is the proceeding. When the material becomes "near and dear" it becomes more difficult to disonate with parts that are not resonating. I don't have any desire to impose on others self to realise that in any other way than offerening the catalysts/ideas of it. It is so for me. Reading Lucifer information I can easily see what is what and therefore smile and destill love and light, taking only what resonates which is hard to do with Ra material that overall is too resonating.

I think you are spot on. Lucifer means "light-bringer". Does that sound like a name for the devil? I do not think so, it is just that the christian church needed someone to put the blame on, a scapegoat.
Interestingly enough that does not work any longer and nowadays they have to look for the devil among themselves, what with all the scandals of child abuse etc.

Intersting thought, Meerie. Even Ra mentioned that one can see Lucifer as a true light-bringer. I agree, that the entity at some extent is the light-bringer. This enitity handing over the tools to us and I hope we use them well. In the "old days" people blamed the devil for all kinds of evil, instead of seeking for that evil in the self. I hope that we do not repeat same misstakes today by blaming the "Orion". The situation would in that case be the same and only words would be different. In that case we have not learned anything and "Devil" will still be "out there".

Namasté

[zenmaster]

89.8 Questioner: How many of our years ago was Ra’s third density ended?

Ra: I am Ra. The calculations necessary for establishing this point are difficult since so much of what you call time is taken up before and after third density as you see the progress of time from your vantage point. We may say in general that the time of our enjoyment of the choice-making was approximately 2.6 million of your sun-years in your past. However—we correct this instrument. Your term is billion, 2.6 billion of your years in your past. However, this time, as you call it, is not meaningful for our intervening space/time has been experienced in a manner quite unlike your third-density experience of space/time.

@Ankh & Protonexus:

I'm really trying to see the logic -

What other planets in this system were 3rd-density capable at Venus' 3D harvest, 2,600,000,000 years ago?

If 3rd-density Earth cycle began only ~75,000 years ago, how could Vedas possibly be 3D-Venusian transplants? They'd be the 'ultimate flunkies'.

[Crimson]

Intersting thought, Meerie. Even Ra mentioned that one can see Lucifer as a true light-bringer. I agree, that the entity at some extent is the light-bringer. This enitity handing over the tools to us and I hope we use them well. In the "old days" people blamed the devil for all kinds of evil, instead of seeking for that evil in the self. I hope that we do not repeat same misstakes today by blaming the "Orion". The situation would in that case be the same and only words would be different. In that case we have not learned anything and "Devil" will still be "out there".

Namasté

"True Light Bringer" in the Ra Material's context appears when mentioning FREE WILL:

Questioner: Would it be possible for this work of our density to be performed if all of the sub-Logoi chose the same polarity in any particular expression or evolution of a Logos? Let us make the assumption that our sun created nothing but, through the first distortion, positive polarity. There was no product except positive polarity. Would work then be done in fourth density and higher as a function of only the positive polarization evolving from the original creation of our sub-Logos?

Ra: I am Ra. Elements of this query illustrate the reason I was unable to answer your previous question without knowledge of the Logos involved. To turn to your question, there were Logoi which chose to set the plan for the activation of mind/body/spirit complexes through each true color body without recourse to the prior application of free will. It is, to our knowledge, only in an absence of free will that the conditions of which you speak obtain. In such a procession of densities you find an extraordinarily long, as you measure time, third-density; likewise, fourth density. Then, as the entities begin to see the Creator, there is a very rapid, as you measure time, procession towards the eighth density. This is due to the fact that one who knows not, cares not.

Let us illustrate by observing the relative harmony and unchanging quality of existence in one of your, as you call it, primitive tribes. The entities have the concepts of lawful and taboo, but the law is inexorable and all events occur as predestined. There is no concept of right and wrong, good or bad. It is a culture in monochrome. In this context you may see the one you call Lucifer as the true light-bringer in that the knowledge of good and evil both precipitated the mind/body/spirits of this Logos from the Edenic conditions of constant contentment and also provided the impetus to move, to work and to learn.

Those Logoi whose creations have been set up without free will have not, in the feeling of those Logoi, given the Creator the quality and variety of experience of Itself as have those Logoi which have incorporated free will as paramount. Thusly you find those Logoi moving through the timeless states at what you would see as a later space/time to choose the free will character when elucidating the foundations of each Logos.

The so called Hidden Hand or his/her Lucifer message appears to have a clear STS message: "No matter what we do just bend over and take it like a...." or "take it/do it and shut up" and things like that.

Surely this polarizes HH, but not "the taker"...

Have you consider that maybe that is why STO only needs a 51% of positive polarization? Explicitly to prevent enslavement and thus loose polarization?

Why I cannot demand you (Lucifer, HH, etc,etc...) to STOP THE ABUSE? (FREE WILL) I guess the Logos is wise in providing a "clock upon the hour" planetary activation no matter what (barring the truly unwise planetary destruction) --while allowing negative activation of other planets.

In this planet, it seems, people do not want to take the abuse anymore.

[Ankh]

"True Light Bringer" in the Ra Material's context appears when mentioning FREE WILL:

Questioner: Would it be possible for this work of our density to be performed if all of the sub-Logoi chose the same polarity in any particular expression or evolution of a Logos? Let us make the assumption that our sun created nothing but, through the first distortion, positive polarity. There was no product except positive polarity. Would work then be done in fourth density and higher as a function of only the positive polarization evolving from the original creation of our sub-Logos?

Ra: I am Ra. Elements of this query illustrate the reason I was unable to answer your previous question without knowledge of the Logos involved. To turn to your question, there were Logoi which chose to set the plan for the activation of mind/body/spirit complexes through each true color body without recourse to the prior application of free will. It is, to our knowledge, only in an absence of free will that the conditions of which you speak obtain. In such a procession of densities you find an extraordinarily long, as you measure time, third-density; likewise, fourth density. Then, as the entities begin to see the Creator, there is a very rapid, as you measure time, procession towards the eighth density. This is due to the fact that one who knows not, cares not.

Let us illustrate by observing the relative harmony and unchanging quality of existence in one of your, as you call it, primitive tribes. The entities have the concepts of lawful and taboo, but the law is inexorable and all events occur as predestined. There is no concept of right and wrong, good or bad. It is a culture in monochrome. In this context you may see the one you call Lucifer as the true light-bringer in that the knowledge of good and evil both precipitated the mind/body/spirits of this Logos from the Edenic conditions of constant contentment and also provided the impetus to move, to work and to learn.

Those Logoi whose creations have been set up without free will have not, in the feeling of those Logoi, given the Creator the quality and variety of experience of Itself as have those Logoi which have incorporated free will as paramount. Thusly you find those Logoi moving through the timeless states at what you would see as a later space/time to choose the free will character when elucidating the foundations of each Logos.

Are you upset about something, brother?

Now I am confused by your interpretation of free will. Edenic conditions were the choice of earlier sub-logoi, thus there were no free will. Free will enters when "Lucifer & co" enters. So in that picture "Lucifer" is the Free Will. If you live in the world that is Edenic, and everybody are nice and good, how would you know it's good if you experience nothing but?

The so called Hidden Hand or his/her Lucifer message appears to have a clear STS message: "No matter what we do just bend over and take it like a...." or "take it/do it and shut up" and things like that.

I can give you a lot of quotes for the opposite, but since it is a strictly Law of One category I give you the destilled message from them: "Be good to each other. Stay positive. We are your brothers and sisters. We love you very much but in this game we push your buttons. That is spiritually hard for us and we will work that karma off after the Harvest. While here stop looking outside yourself for evil. We handing you the tools. Use them well."

[unity100]

a negative entity being a 'light bringer' due to showing what should not be done, in greater sense, does NOT mean that anyone should believe what the negative entity says.

[Crown]

How do we know if a positive entity is not a negative entity in disguise in order to decieve us? I have had this discussion with a friend and we have'nt reached any significant realizations or theoretical explanations. I was hoping that someone here could help.

My thoughts are that you should probably rely on your intuition and gut feelings but there has to be more.

[Ankh]

How do we know if a positive entity is not a negative entity in disguise in order to decieve us? I have had this discussion with a friend and we have'nt reached any significant realizations or theoretical explanations. I was hoping that someone here could help.

My thoughts are that you should probably rely on your intuition and gut feelings but there has to be more.

Stop looking outside yourself. Use the tools, ie reading Ra material or whatever material. Meditate. Seek inside - what resonates and what not, and why. Be honest with yourself. Don't be afraid.

[Crimson]

Are you upset about something, brother?

Nah, many people crying and suffering, people going hungry, homelessness, etc just because an elite thinks this is "good for us" --even though this planet tends to positiveness ---> green light activation --->4d + which basically means the planet does not approve of negativity

Now I am confused by your interpretation of free will. Edenic conditions were the choice of earlier sub-logoi, thus there were no free will. Free will enters when "Lucifer & co" enters. So in that picture "Lucifer" is the Free Will. If you live in the world that is Edenic, and everybody are nice and good, how would you know it's good if you experience nothing but?

Stop banging my head man...how is that for free will? Or this: I ask to the negative forces/elite to leave Earth and respect he planet's decision to be 4d + (based on 3d entities consciousness) as per Ra.

The so called Hidden Hand or his/her Lucifer message appears to have a clear STS message: "No matter what we do just bend over and take it like a...." or "take it/do it and shut up" and things like that.

I can give you a lot of quotes for the opposite, but since it is a strictly Law of One category I give you the destilled message from them: "Be good to each other. Stay positive. We are your brothers and sisters. We love you very much but in this game we push your buttons. That is spiritually hard for us and we will work that karma off after the Harvest. While here stop looking outside yourself for evil. We handing you the tools. Use them well."

Honestly that is just newspeak for: " be good to each other be positive as we screw you over and over...we love you so much we have to do this but remember it is your fault, the evil is inside you not me....now shut up as I keep trying to enslave all of you but NOW...BE POSITIVE OK?..."

I guess this all has a place at one point but when a planet says "no"...well it is "no".


Adonai and Namasté