Fourth Density Space/Time

[Infinite]

I'm trying visualize how is space/time in 4D. Here Latwii said that the 4D body is an astral body:

C: Thank you. I would like to ask another question concerning fourth density that we’re all moving into. I would like to know more about body functions in the fourth density. Could you comment on that?

I am Latwii, and am aware of your query, my brother. The body which shall be inhabited by those of the fourth-density positive remaining upon this sphere is a body which is much more densely filled with light and the force of life which we have spoken of as the prana or love/light of the one infinite Creator. Many among your planet, in studying those things of mystery and of an occult nature, describe this body as the astral body. It is the green-ray energy center equivalent to the body you now inhabit as the yellow-ray energy center body. It is a body which responds much more fluidly and instantaneously to the will and faith developed in the indigo-ray energy center so that those actions or artifacts which are desired are much more easily constructed through the indigo-ray energy center’s contact with intelligent energy. This allows for the further development of the, what might be called, discipline of the personality which allows an entity much greater freedom in travel, in contacting telepathically all those about it, whose thoughts are seen to be quite transparent, and to do all things which serve as catalyst and as means for processing catalyst. The body is therefore much more malleable and subject to that which has created it, that is, the mind of the mind/body/spirit complex.

So, 4D Space/Time is an astral environment. There are no astral planes in 4D Time/Space?

[Coordinate_Apotheosis]

I read that quote as Quo saying that we humans are the ones that have named the 4D body the astral body.

I think of ectoplasm.  When a 4D or astral body is evoked in a seance it's physical residue is ectoplasm, a goo of sorts.

Never is it said that reality grows more concrete physically from denser light stacking/nesting due to higher density geometric packing.  4D may not be so physical as to be solid, it may be more malleable and less 'dense' as if 'tense' and unmoving.

4D space/time in comparison to 3D space/time might be of a different element.  Rather than solid, liquid, gas, plasma, it's closer to plasma as solid, and liquids, gases, and their plasmas may be vastly different from how we know them yet similar.  Liquids in 4D might be more solid and workable without needing containers, gases might resemble light in their behavior, plasma might be their equivalent to 5D energy.

I'm not sure but considering how vastly different life is on planets that are 4D or 5D or whatnot, only seems fair to consider that physical reality aka space/time to them may be greatly different than it is for us.

We are very fragile beings while in flesh.  Our lessons are very vivid.  4D lessons may be less vivid (albeit centered more around love) and thus the body learning such lessons may not need to be as fragile or even vulnerable.

Their table of elements might not even correlate with our own.  Their number system and geometry may not be compatible with ours.

It may be as an entirely different reality.

[Nau7ik]

I believe that the body they are talking about is still physical. We have a physical body for incarnation in space/time. The material is much finer in the higher densities. To us, from our 3D perspective, we wouldn’t consider the bodies physical, rather more astral. Bodies in 2D and 3D are heavy chemical bodies in the physical. The way I see it is that in 4D we will have physical light bodies. Much more malleable and densely packed with light, as Latwii said.

[Coordinate_Apotheosis]

It's hard to consider something capable of passing through us physical, but such is so.

The awesome infinite potential of what can be made manifest.

[Mahakali]

Well, the cornerstone of 4D positive is the social memory complex; an astral entity built from the consciousness of all is participants in a more consciously directed way. So I don't think it's that there'll be no astral planes so much as that they'll be a lot more interconnected, which will be liberating in some ways and limiting in others.

Most of humanity being idiots, no doubt it'll be off to a bumpy start.

[MangusKhan]

It's hard to consider something capable of passing through us physical, but such is so.

The awesome infinite potential of what can be made manifest.

I wonder if higher density energy exerts a gravitational pull on third density matter...

[AnthroHeart]

It's hard to consider something capable of passing through us physical, but such is so.

The awesome infinite potential of what can be made manifest.

I wonder if higher density energy exerts a gravitational pull on third density matter...

That could be the dark energy that takes up most of the Universe. Though it causes things to move away from one another at an accelerating rate.

[Coordinate_Apotheosis]

Well perhaps the pull of the light in 2D is the same as the pull on 3D by 4D energies? Can this pull be related to gravity?

[MangusKhan]

Well perhaps the pull of the light in 2D is the same as the pull on 3D by 4D energies?  Can this pull be related to gravity?

2D light is a component of 3D light, and exerts force (or warps space-time) proportional to its energy content like all other known matter. Our cornerstone of particle physics, the electron, is in fact made of three 1D quasi-electrons at right angles to eachother. So lower dimensional light is not quite as enigmatic as higher dimensional light, being contained within our 3D energy structures, just as the cube contains the square. The question is, is the cube containing the square then contained within a hypercube? And is this hypercube contained within a hyper-hypercube? If this were the nature of energy, and gravitational attraction were possible between dimensions, then we would have a promising suspect for the dark matter boogeyman. It would fit in nicely with the concept of higher density energy governing lower density energy, too.

I think the physics community would be shocked to discover that their elusive WIMPs are in fact fourth-dimensional energy structures. This is all speculation from me for now, though. I should talk to my nutty physics professor about this and see what he says. I've been meaning to for a long time. It's clear from the things he says and does that he's open to a lot more than just the standard model.

[Infinite]

Hatonn also said that the body of fourth density is the astral body:

When consciousness within your third density has been individualized to the point that the choice can be made in either the positive or the negative sense—that is, to be of service to others, to give of that energy of the Creator to others, or to absorb that energy of the Creator in the negative or magnetic sense—when either of these two choices have been made as to how the further seeking of the Creator shall be experienced, then it is that another leap, shall we say, in consciousness is possible.

This is the movement of consciousness into that density of love and understanding which it is our honor and our privilege to inhabit. Within this [fourth] density of creation, the form of the body that has been chosen in the second-density experience of plants, of animal, to be invested, then is again used, as it was in the third density, but is used in what you might see of a somewhat different form, that is, what your peoples frequently call the astral body, that body which is lighter in your material gravity, shall we say, but is more densely packed with light. This body, then, is far more responsive to thought, and may move far more freely in time and in space than your bodies move.

[Glow]

Ahhhh can’t wait!!!

[AnthroHeart]

Oh yeah I've felt the astral body in certain dreams I've had where I become lucid, although I don't always have to.

One astral projection I had was floating out of bed and seeing and hearing a growling wolf near the side of my bed. It made me go back in my body.

[Infinite]

One astral projection I had was floating out of bed and seeing and hearing a growling wolf near the side of my bed. It made me go back in my body.

I already projected myself to astral plane. But, we can acess just the mid portions of the astral plane. There are frequencies called "solar astral plane" in Gnosis, or higher astral planes. Aren't possible acess they without a "solar astral body", aka lightbody in some traditions. These portions are those in which the STO entities will to inhabit in the fourth density.

[Vasilisa]

I'm trying visualize how is space/time in 4D. Here Latwii said that the 4D body is an astral body:

Hatonn also said that the body of fourth density is the astral body:

This astral world has been sufficiently empirically researched by people who practice lucid dreams. It has its own firm laws tested by many practitioners. I am very surprised that at this forum the theme of the astral world and the astral body is little discussed. The astral world must be viewed from the point of view of awareness, not matter

[anagogy]

So, 4D Space/Time is an astral environment. There are no astral planes in 4D Time/Space?

All I can do is share what I have learned. Feel free to disregard if it doesn't resonate.

Every density exists in all the planes, however the consciousness of any given density, is naturally seated at one of those planes, or rays, even though it may express itself, through the cross section of any of the planes. 3rd density consciousness is naturally seated at the intelligence level, or conscious perspective, of the middle astral, for example.

Fourth density may also exist in the physical plane, but I could *easily* see how the nuances of the expression of the planes could be obfuscated during a channeling session. Especially a conscious channeling session. We are talking about very fine nuances in vibration here. Fourth density is intimately connected with the higher astral plane.

Even though densities and dimensions are *not* the same thing, they are correlated. Meaning with every sequential density, there is a corresponding 90 degree geometric relationship associated and potentiated. In 4D, one has conscious mental access to the fourth dimension, what we call "time". This is an inner dimension [*abruptly pulls back curtain for dramatic big reveal*]. Do you recall how Ra mentioned there are 3 outer directions and 3 inner directions (space vs time), well 4D is the first step into that domain, consciously (the first inner direction). The inner appears to contain the outer, and the outer appears to contain the inner) Physicality is intimately connected with the concept of tangibility. However, 4D still uses the tangible dimensions, just as all densities do (its a useful dimension! :D ).

All the physical planes, across all the densities, occur in the same physical plane, more or less (though this is, indeed, an oversimplification). Think about it , you can see rock stuff, animal stuff, and people stuff (as you can see, I firmly believe "stuff" should be a standardized unit of physical measurement :D ). All these physical crystallizations of different density patternizations in the same physical plane. Isn't that remarkable? In fact, you would be able to see ALL of the densities physical expressions were not the 4th through 7th veiling this spectrum of physical reality from you. In fact, sometimes tangible visitors from 4D enter our visible spectrum of physicality and do physical things to us (alien abduction/contact). Sometimes they even get stuck in 3rd density physical visible spectrum, and get abducted themselves (by the "gubmint" :D -- oh the sweet sweet karmic irony).

I can tell you that when a 4D being looks at you, they don't just see the front of you (though they can do this by simply looking through their physical optical apparatus just as you presently do), but they see every side of you at once, inside and outside, all at the same time (and your thoughts). If you haven't read Flatland, it is basically-o the same deal-io. In 4D, one can explore more interesting states of matter, that skirt the line between the tangible and the intangible. For example, in 4D you can have structures that are bigger on the inside than on the outside :D . There is more freedom with tangibility here, with spatial directions that can house structures in alternate spatial directions, though it doesn't make sense to our simple terran hominid neuro circuitry.

[Coordinate_Apotheosis]

This terran hominid neuro circuitry is blown

[Infinite]

I am very surprised that at this forum the theme of the astral world and the astral body is little discussed. The astral world must be viewed from the point of view of awareness, not matter

I know. This theme was one of the first that I studied in the spirituality. I'm from Brazil and I studied the brazilian authors and the foreigners. Robert Monroe is one of the best. The reason this forum don't discusse this theme is because the core of him (the forum) are Ra's teachings and he didn't talk about astral projection.

All I can do is share what I have learned. Feel free to disregard if it doesn't resonate.

As you must to know, I was take the fourth density as an etheric enviroment  (from the concept of etheric body and ectoplasm) not astral. But reading not just esoteric and spiritual works about ascension but the L/L Research channelings, I came to the conclusion that fourth density is an astral enviroment. And now, I'm taking your point of view posted in another topic created by me :

Red Ray = Physical Plane/Prime Material/This is also the Etheric Plane (as is commonly referenced in occult literature -- not the version Ra was talking about). This is the most congealed manifestation of form, or tangibility.
Orange Ray = Lower Astral Plane (Selfish Vibrations/Vibrations Concerning Self/Lust/Personal Power/Lower Emotional Realm)
Yellow Ray = Middle Astral Plane (Awareness of difference between Self and Other/Societal Vibrations/Personhood in relationship to groups of entities/this is where you begin to see astral cities or conglomerations of souls living together/Lower mental plane.)
Green Ray = Higher Astral Plane (Awareness of others vibrations/empathy/understanding of what another is experiencing/unconditional love/astral heaven type worlds/awareness of harmony/higher emotional plane).
Blue Ray = Devachanic Plane/Mental Plane/vibrations of free communication and pure conceptual ideals/repository of the "pure vibrations" of a thing at a conceptual level/conceptual archetypes after which every further instance of a particular idea is a patternization of, i.e., Plato's ideas of "ideal forms")
Indigo Ray = Causal Plane (Awareness of self as an expression of Intelligent Energy/awareness of self as creator/what Ra called the "etheric body" or the place where light is given form. Think of it as an "eye" or "shutter" that focuses light, giving it form, which is why it is the primal Form Maker.
Violet Ray = Buddhic Plane or alternatively the "Atmic Plane" or the level of 'Christ Consciousness'. Realm of wholeness, and awareness of connection with everything. This is where the m/b/s totality resides. An awareness of the totality of experiential balance. This is the most intangible and "not constrained by form" level.

Fourth density is intimately connected with the higher astral plane.

And about STS entities? I wondering if they inhabit the lower and middle astral planes? Because they don't work with the green ray appropriately.

Even though densities and dimensions are *not* the same thing, they are correlated. Meaning with every sequential density, there is a corresponding 90 degree geometric relationship associated and potentiated.

Yes, Laitos spoken something like this in a channelling:

In some instances, there is the exchange of entities from the, shall we say, ship or position in what you call time and space with the, shall we say, home density or planetary vibration. Therefore, there may be more entities lending assistance to the ship or specific mission than are actually, shall we say, aboard that craft or in that location. The location is also a point to be considered, for the location can be in various frequencies or densities or realities as you would call them. Your own planetary vibration has its space/time location which you now inhabit, and has its time/space location which may generally be described as the astral through devachanic levels of your so-called inner planes. Your planet has inner planes of each density level.

All the physical planes, across all the densities, occur in the same physical plane, more or less (though this is, indeed, an oversimplification). Think about it , you can see rock stuff, animal stuff, and people stuff (as you can see, I firmly believe "stuff" should be a standardized unit of physical measurement ). All these physical crystallizations of different density patternizations in the same physical plane. Isn't that remarkable? In fact, you would be able to see ALL of the densities physical expressions were not the 4th through 7th veiling this spectrum of physical reality from you. In fact, sometimes tangible visitors from 4D enter our visible spectrum of physicality and do physical things to us (alien abduction/contact). Sometimes they even get stuck in 3rd density physical visible spectrum, and get abducted themselves (by the "gubmint" -- oh the sweet sweet karmic irony).

This is the reason I was confounding the fourth density as and etheric world. Thanks a lot my brother!

[sjel]

The one thing I am certain of is that fourth density never ever exists in the future. It only exists now. That fourth density only ever exists Right Now appears to me to be the central truth around which it revolves. All else is details - magnificent, beautiful details, perhaps, but details.

[Vasilisa]

I know. This theme was one of the first that I studied in the spirituality. I'm from Brazil and I studied the brazilian authors and the foreigners. Robert Monroe is one of the best. The reason this forum don't discusse this theme is because the core of him (the forum) are Ra's teachings and he didn't talk about astral projection.

I unfortunately do not know any Brazilian authors who write on the esoteric theme. Ra briefly mentions the sensory deprivation chamber under the pyramid and the role of frontal lobes in the fourth density. Monroe, and not only he used deprivation in his studies. There is a connection between the frontal lobes - lucid dreaming.

[anagogy]

And about STS entities? I wondering if they inhabit the lower and middle astral planes? Because they don't work with the green ray appropriately.

That is absolutely, and exquisitely, correct my good sir. You see, when you become dis-incarnate (I believe the technical term is "croak" :D ), no one forces you to go "back home" to the "The Light". You are strongly encouraged, i.e. a prominent sales job is done, but no one is forced. Never forced. And so beings of the darker variety, or sometimes confused, emotionally attached, and fearful souls afraid of some kind of divine judgment, simply elect to not go home after death, and stay in the lower planes, intensifying their negative learning, and then eventually reincarnate as long as they are choosing their circumstances in full consciousness of the ramifications of their choice. With every increase in density, they become better able to utilize these planes, even the lower ones. Lower doesn't mean "less  useful", though, people often wrongly come to this conclusion. And it doesn't even necessarily mean "negative" either, though it is true the negative holds dominion over the lower planes, just as the positive prevails with ease in the higher planes. There are many positive aspects to the lower planes. For example, the lower astral contains all your "personal memories". It would not be possible to have a coherent ego personality without the lower astral orange ray field.

This is the reason I was confounding the fourth density as and etheric world. Thanks a lot my brother!

Most welcome my friend!

[Infinite]

Another doubt anagogy. We know that time/space or inner plans of Earth have sub-octaves to each density level. So, a 4D STO entity can travell to devachanic planes or 5D density level of Earth? Is a 4D entity submited to your own density level, or the 4D octave is sovereign to 3D?

Talking about STS entities: For example, I don't belive that reptilians or greys can travell to higher astral or devachanic plans of Earth.

[anagogy]

Another doubt anagogy. We know that time/space or inner plans of Earth have sub-octaves to each density level. So, a 4D STO entity can travell to devachanic planes or 5D density level of Earth? Is a 4D entity submited to your own density level, or the 4D octave is sovereign to 3D?

Talking about STS entities: For example, I don't belive that reptilians or greys can travell to higher astral or devachanic plans of Earth.

Just as the physical planes all occur in the same plane, the same is true for the astral levels, devachanic levels, causal levels, and buddhic levels.

However, as I said, each density upwards allows the consciousness to partake ever more purely of the creation, so a 4th density being is not going to partake of any of the levels as purely as an even higher density being will. Each evolution allows one to use the 7 planes in a more pure and refined way. A 3rd density being may travel to the buddhic plane if they are adept enough, but even though it is violet ray energy, they will not partake of that plane as purely as a 7th density Logos will partake of that plane.

So just as as the animal knows not what the physical experience of a 3rd density human is like precisely, a 4D beings knows not what the physicality of 5D is like. A more perfected vessel requires a more perfected spirit and vice versa.

As to the negative STS beings, even if they had the ability they wouldn't want to travel to those levels, because of the resounding harmony present there. Even having increased to a higher density state of consciousness, they would choose to remain on the lower levels within the sub-octave planary structure of that density, which, again, is not separated from the planes of the lower levels, just as the physical isn't.

I realize it is a lot to take in. The metaphysical structures are complex, but fascinating.

[Infinite]

However, as I said, each density upwards allows the consciousness to partake ever more purely of the creation, so a 4th density being is not going to partake of any of the levels as purely as an even higher density being will. Each evolution allows one to use the 7 planes in a more pure and refined way. A 3rd density being may travel to the buddhic plane if they are adept enough, but even though it is violet ray energy, they will not partake of that plane as purely as a 7th density Logos will partake of that plane.

I understand. As Latwii said here:

It is not a question of location, my brother, for the dimensions are interpenetrating. However, you exist in denser and denser vibrations, according to your abilities. All of you exist into the fourth dimension, and there are adepts among you who are working at this time, actively, in the fifth dimension and are attempting to understand some of the teachings of the inner realms of the sixth dimension. There are a few people who work as far as the eighth, but there are two within this room who have seen it in visions and are aware of its nature, although they could not maintain it for any length of time. This is the octave of your universe, and these are the dimensions of that octave. To go beyond that, you must be free of your chemical body; and therefore we are talking to a roomful of those who are not going to be doing that any time terribly soon; however, there are many, many infinities to explore within those dimensions and much wisdom to learn. Therefore, we urge you onward; for the path becomes lighter, the teachings truer, and the laughter happier.

This means that the inner planes of a density can't be access for one lower density entity.

I realize it is a lot to take in. The metaphysical structures are complex, but fascinating.

I agree. I have memories of phenomena in the astral plane which are impossible of describe.