(10-15-2010, 10:33 AM)thefool Wrote: It is the concept of CIRCULATION at work here. The same number of smiles move much faster in your closed system and create prosperity. are they transforming energy at a faster rate, You beccha!!! but since when it became a bad thing. The energy just gets transformed from one state to another. It never gets destroyed.
is it ? what happened to the conservation of energy ?
energy 'circulates', and everyone demands more for what they create, yet, SOMEHOW, the energy in the environment 'just increases', without anyone having to produce more ?
'transforming' energy ? there is nothing regarding transformation of energy, in the problem posed.
we are talking about MORE than what has been generated, being asked.
EVEN if we say it is 'speed' of transformation that is generated (which isnt, because resources are being traded and owned in this concept, they have a certain defined amount on this planet, nomatter how fast you 'transform' them), it would mean that the system would be asking for 5% more 'transformation' for every 100 unit of 'transformation' it made, and there would have to be 105% more transformation in the first step, and 105% + 5*105/100 transformation in the second step, and so on.
the system would cause more 'transformation' to be required, and the ENERGY required for generating those 'transformations', would have to come from somewhere.
(10-15-2010, 11:55 AM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: I'm not sure about the 'closed system' part (since I'm not sure what you mean by that) but I definitely agree with the point about energy being transformed.
a closed system, is actually any given system, unless it takes in resources or any other input from outside.
a quarantined planet is a closed system. you have a certain amount of material/energy on the planet. you have to use them.
even in regard to energy nexuses, logoi and the energy it gives to its sublogoi, every logos and sublogos have a defined power of manifestation, the amount of energy they can handle with their manifestational vehicle.
thus, they are limited with the power current their vehicle can handle. that happens to be another closed system, unless entities get external aid and resources.
(10-15-2010, 12:19 PM)thefool Wrote: But like I mentioned in my last post- The opportunities for total power grab and total corruption is minimized in the system based on individuals while a socialist system lends itself to complete control and dominance by one small elite group.
is it ?
a system based on 'individuals'. isnt individual focus, self-focus, separation is precisely what underlies the principle of service to self manifestation ?
lets see.
there are 500 individuals in a system. everyone has the right to gain any amount of financial power they can have, anything they can own.
and in that small country, eventually, some work 'harder' or more smartly than others, and gain more. and their investments just keep piling up.
in the end, this small society would end up with various portions of its society increasingly owning more and more of the resources and business in that society.
and what does this end up being ? a small minority that owns more, would end up determining what would the shape of life be, in the sectors they are dominating.
moreover, since they readily command more resources and activities of life, than others, they would also be having power in any way they can. allow private armies, they will field stronger armies. allow private police, they will have more police. allow a justice system based on power of money, they will have more justice. allow anything that allows usage of money, and they will have more power, over YOUR Life.
that is the story and situation in the capitalist systems.
great for these people, that, the masses still havent woken up to the fact that money, is POWER.
(10-15-2010, 12:37 PM)thefool Wrote: I was born in India and spend the first 28 years of my life in a socialist/democratic system having a completely different picture of than last 12 years have taught me from my own experience.
cultural differences, determine the nature of life in a given country. that is as such for every system.
had your country been capitalistic from the start, you would have much more discrimination, disparage in between the statuses and power of wealthy, than you already experienced.
Quote:It is not a tossup at all. We know from the history who killed millions of their own people, imprisoned them and where there is more media control. You know about these mass killings in Russia and China. Do you not believe those to be the facts?
if one doesnt know enough about history, s/he shouldnt speak on propaganda s/he have received.
first emperor of china, chi, killed more than 1 million people during building of the great wall. probably 200,000 were directly buried into the wall, to use as building blocks. had there been more population, he would have killed even more.
capitalist japan, have killed more than 10 million chinese during the japan-chinese war. a goodly number of these were killed by biological weapons, of which we are seeing the aftereffects still in the ever mutating flu viruses from china. countless sorties to drop these disease weapons were made by chinese. im not even going to talk about nanking massacre and how it happened.
capitalist, individualistic and free united states of america massacred an entire native population in america. same country, have erased more than 200,000 people with one bomb, 150,000 or more, with another bomb, in 1945. it installed more than 12 direct puppet dictators in various countries in between 1945-2000, almost all of which ended up being internationally wanted genocide criminals.
no need to talk about what the british empire did, during the period of that 'empire'. and only the period in between 1800-1900 too. france, similarly.
the world war that the capitalist regimes of germany, italy, japan have created, killed more than 60 million people indirectly worldwide. the accounted for totals, is 15 million. 60 million is calculated. make no mistake here -> political systems of germany, italy, and japan were fascism, however, their system, was full capitalism. actually, it was the capitalist systems in these countries, that allowed those fascist governments to take power anyway. german industry supported hitler, and there was a huge industrial society behind the party that governed the empire in japan.
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as said, this is something relevant to the cultures, and their times. the repressive cultures you speak of, russia, china, se asia, were equally repressive for thousands of years into the history. even with the current 'democratization' and 'capitalization', there has been no change in their repression level. just now, the repression is 'privatized'.
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similar outlines are there, in usa, and u.k., with various private interest groups which have garnered enough monetary power, supporting parties and candidates that will allow them a more firm grasp on power. it precisely happened that way, in germany, italy in 1930s.
it is inevitable end of capitalist system. private groups gain more and more power, because boundless financial clout is allowed, and at a certain point, they attempt to establish a dictatorship through any means that is present at that period.
and, ironically, the needs and aims, qualms of the society is used for establishing that dictatorship ; nationalism, religion, any kind of national question, problem.
this is how rome became an empire. this is how fascist rose to power in 1930s. this is the fence where the united states, and u.k. since last decade, are howering on.
the question still remains :
who or what will pay for the extra 5% 'more' or 'faster', that is being demanded by the system.
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