Does Free Will choose, or offer us the capability of Choice?

[The_Tired_Philosopher]

Well, it's decided then. I'm going to start a game company, you in? You don't need schooling. I've been to school, I've got the books, what you need are good ideas and talented people. I've already wanted to start a game company for a long time, since I got out of high school, but I've started to notice how many talented game designers there are around me in my life, we could have a hell of a team.

I see no reason why not.  Teach me Programs I'll show you Progress.

Just go look at the kind of stuff I randomly come up with in my thread in the Treehugger forum, you should see the document for my Call of Duty Nazi Zombie's board game and the sheer level of work I was putting into that s.o.b...

[Aion]

What's the worst that can happen?

[Aion]

Well, it's decided then. I'm going to start a game company, you in? You don't need schooling. I've been to school, I've got the books, what you need are good ideas and talented people. I've already wanted to start a game company for a long time, since I got out of high school, but I've started to notice how many talented game designers there are around me in my life, we could have a hell of a team.

I see no reason why not.  Teach me Programs I'll show you Progress.

Just go look at the kind of stuff I randomly come up with in my thread in the Treehugger forum, you should see the document for my Call of Duty Nazi Zombie's board game and the sheer level of work I was putting into that s.o.b...

There we go, that's the kind of attitude that gets things moving. Let's see more of that.

Anything worthwhile takes investment of energy and energy takes time. Are you willing to invest time and energy in to building your creative works?

[earth_spirit]

-----

[spero]

thanks for the answers TTP. its easier to see where you're coming from now and the context behind u asking the question

telling u to think otherwise about your circumstances or situation goes against every real world experience youve had, or easy to find example, that life does indeed suck.

how can i even begin to argue for u to adopt an optimistic expectation when u personally have little real world evidence to the contrary. it just sounds deluded. even if i convinced u to go along, you would always be expecting it to fall to shite and then id say you were self-sabotaging. it sounds depressing just thinking about it and yet i still think ur thinking is clouded by too many permission slip type constructs. u cant do x without y and z happening first and i half suspect x isnt even what u really want, its an abstraction away from something u think might make u happy, secure, safe etc. sometimes people feel trapped by mental constructs of their own imagining. ur on the internet and u have all the information that ever existed on learning how to design games or fix computers but u still think u need a degree and get into debt. if there was something u really wanted to do and u honestly thought it would fulfil u to do that for a living in an of itself then the generally altruistic nature of people will more than likely want to see u succeed in reaching that and give u a leg up. right now your in survival mode and thinking its all too hard. think about something that u want to do with ur life  and which would make u die fulfilled even if u were just working towards it.

e.g. u might want to be a photographer in war zones to show people the darkest most depressing aspects of the human condition and capturing it and sharing it with the world. slightly morbid but for u that could be something that gives u meaning and doesnt shy away from or ignore the suffering in the world etc. not necessarily something happy-go-lucky like u opening a food kitchen and feeding the homeless or etc.

u might not even need to go to a warzone. save up for a camera or dont and go into a nursing home and take a portrait and conduct a small interview. ask them the hard questions and the deep ones. put together a webpage and sell a book from nothing but just a photo and sitting and listening to people who will never get to share their stories with the world and make it ur goal to make people care and hear their stories. 

point is  u dont need much if u set your mind on something and if its a passion people are more than willing to oblige to help u on ur way. now u just gotta think on what u want to do and run with it, just like aion said

hell even im tempted to go to a nursing home right now and set that up lol

[AnthroHeart]

It feels like hell in my heart too, but sometimes I just have to make the decision to feel better. It takes effort for me to feel that everything is ok.

[AnthroHeart]

 What's next?  Making it happen?  Okay, I'll go change the State and Federal laws allowing me to go make a garden and small home in a nice quiet plot of land.  Or I'll save up the money to buy an acre of land and make my own damn--oh right then I'll need to get the licensing to build anything anywhere, and the certifications to do that, or this.  OR some legal nonsense stopping this from that or me from those or...

Maybe I'll leave the country.  So I'll just need to apply for citizenship in anothe--I'm nobody?  I can't?  Visa...?  But I've no where to go.

Maybe I'll just leave illegally here, and hope the feds/cops/authorities don't drag me out of my mini home hauling me off to prison for breaking their laws.

Laws were made for people who had no intention of following them in the first place.  Live your life how you want, consequences be damned.

If the choice is between "not feeling fulfilled because you settled" and "taking a risk".  I would rather take the risk.  

You can't win if you don't play.  And to quote shawshank redemption: get busy living, or get busy dying.  I don't mean to be blunt, it is just how I honestly see things.  I realize life can be hard.  If you really want something, you will find a way.  That's what this game is all about.  Games without limitations are boring.  The second I start using cheat codes in a game I lose interest very shortly thereafter.  Makes me appreciate challenges.  

Limitations actually *empower* creativity because you have to work with them.

I actually paid for a saved game with a decked out player for Final Fantasy VII. I didn't want to sit through the many hours of playtime. I enjoyed being able to be a god in that game.

[anagogy]

I actually paid for a saved game with a decked out player for Final Fantasy VII. I didn't want to sit through the many hours of playtime. I enjoyed being able to be a god in that game.

Do you still play it?

[AnthroHeart]

No, not sure where the PS2 went. I loved the character of Red XIII.

[anagogy]

No, not sure where the PS2 went. I loved the character of Red XIII.

If I had to draw an analogy between your videogame experience and being god and/or cheat codes, I would instead compare it to being a "walk-in". You still have challenges in such a circumstances, and have rules and limitations that you still have to partake of, but you skip the childhood part. And walkins do it for the exact same reason -- they don't want to go through the beginning phase.

[Aion]

I only use cheats after beating a game normally and even then there haven't been many. I don't really need cheats since I'm pretty good at video games and I don't mind investing the time. Right now I'm playing an RPG called Shin Megami Tensai: Nocturne and there are points where you have to spend some time levelling up or else you won't have much luck beating the enemies but it's a creature based system kind of like Pokemon except instead of Pokemon they are Demons and you can fuse them together to make new ones. Takes awhile to really grow them but I enjoy the process.

Games get boring for me if they are too easy. I like to have something to sink my teeth in to.

[The_Tired_Philosopher]

thanks for the answers TTP. its easier to see where you're coming from now and the context behind u asking the question

telling u to think otherwise about your circumstances or situation goes against every real world experience youve had, or easy to find example, that life does indeed suck.

how can i even begin to argue for u to adopt an optimistic expectation when u personally have little real world evidence to the contrary. it just sounds deluded. even if i convinced u to go along, you would always be expecting it to fall to shite and then id say you were self-sabotaging. it sounds depressing just thinking about it and yet i still think ur thinking is clouded by too many permission slip type constructs. u cant do x without y and z happening first and i half suspect x isnt even what u really want, its an abstraction away from something u think might make u happy, secure, safe etc. sometimes people feel trapped by mental constructs of their own imagining. ur on the internet and u have all the information that ever existed on learning how to design games or fix computers but u still think u need a degree and get into debt. if there was something u really wanted to do and u honestly thought it would fulfil u to do that for a living in an of itself then the generally altruistic nature of people will more than likely want to see u succeed in reaching that and give u a leg up. right now your in survival mode and thinking its all too hard. think about something that u want to do with ur life  and which would make u die fulfilled even if u were just working towards it.

e.g. u might want to be a photographer in war zones to show people the darkest most depressing aspects of the human condition and capturing it and sharing it with the world. slightly morbid but for u that could be something that gives u meaning and doesnt shy away from or ignore the suffering in the world etc. not necessarily something happy-go-lucky like u opening a food kitchen and feeding the homeless or etc.

u might not even need to go to a warzone. save up for a camera or dont and go into a nursing home and take a portrait and conduct a small interview. ask them the hard questions and the deep ones. put together a webpage and sell a book from nothing but just a photo and sitting and listening to people who will never get to share their stories with the world and make it ur goal to make people care and hear their stories. 

point is  u dont need much if u set your mind on something and if its a passion people are more than willing to oblige to help u on ur way. now u just gotta think on what u want to do and run with it, just like aion said

hell even im tempted to go to a nursing home right now and set that up lol

What screws me up is I'm actually very optimistic in situations.  When my car got a flat, took an hour to change, no big deal.  I put on my smile, looked at life and concurred.  Flat tires happen on old wheels, its not a cruel feeling catalyst, its a pretty straight lesson, preventative maintenance goes far.

And requires money, which I didn't have fast enough to change the tires in time.

Life doesn't suck,Earth doesn't suck.

Society, and Humanity suck lol

[Aion]

It is only because we can imagine the idea of something 'sucking' that we can say it sucks. In lieu of our imagination of the description, things are empty.

[Minyatur]

Humanity is glorious and beautiful, this earth you say does not suck loves humanity unconditionally.

[The_Tired_Philosopher]

By design the emptiness is structured into fulfilling illusions.

Its pretty real empty or full.

You guys are asking me to discover things I once knew.  And to do things that require money as if I had the money.

Its like my 10th grade Sociology Teacher who sat there screaming at kids, 'IF YOU HATE SCHOOL, DON'T COME.' with one perfect example of his logic.

If you dislike America leave.  There's no excuse.

Okay, Mr. Kelly, I'll just sneak past The Border Patrol, or through Air Port security, move into another country, build myself a shelter and live off the...  crap how do I survive?

Need a visa or else you get deported back to Square 2.

As I say, realism guys.  Its not properly met.  Risk taking is...well inevitable so very acceptable, but what is too much risk vs gain?

I avoid life, too much risk is leaving my current set up to come back aftrr failing to nothing.  Something I've already gone through...
And would rather not have happen again.

Why the hell do people assume 'suck' implies no positive?  Sucking is vastly better than horrible or hellish.  My ex sucked (really good actually) and I loved her immensely... (total pun intended but not necessary LOL)
I have a Love/Hate relationship with People and Society.

[Aion]

Ah, the ol' 'realism' argument, can't say I haven't heard that a thousand times. It is the prototypical argument for maintaining suffering. I'm not saying it's 'wrong' either, just funny how we will lament our conditions but then fear what it might take to change them. We reap what we sow. I have no sympathy it seems. I'm getting worse at this compassion thing as I get older I think.

[Aion]

Don't get me wrong. I by no means have all my dreams figured out nor can I do whatever I please whenever I please, but I don't make any qualms about acknowledging that that is because of the way I choose rather than because I am 'trapped'.

[The_Tired_Philosopher]

I don't identify trapped.  Just in a shitty place.

You can knock off realism, I just had a synchronistic conversation with two officers I see now and then at work talking about how they enjoy locking up people who use that mentalitu to justify half their bad behaviors and issues.

I think its a fine scale of Realism vs Actuality.  Sometimes being realistic is limiting, like not trying to overcome an issue because it appears impossible.

Like, I'm sure I would enjoy being a Congressman.  It won't happen though.

Let me put it this way.  Possibility/probability points exist, does that mean impossibility/improbability points exist?

What is possible but highly iimprobable isn't what I view.

Every example I gave y'all ignored and you called it basically an excuse, Aion.

Your reason however sounds like an excuse to do whatever you want.  It doesn't match for me.  I don't do whatever I want because I Can't.  No level of telling me otherwise makes sense.

Its just madness, do whatever I want?  Okay, and what about the structures of restrictions and unspoken mannerisms of how things operate to push us to be certain ways?

I've given valid examples and why they go against this mentality of Risk-Taking whatever I want to do.

I'm hungry, I'll go get some food, oh wait I need money!

I'm dehydrated, in the desert, better go ask a store clerk for a water cup, oh I'm not buying anything so they deny me the cup.  I can do whatever I want though right?!!  I'll just go Take a cup behind the counter and get water anyways!

Doing whatever the f*** I want is akin to Uncivilized Savagery if you're not careful.

Its not good advice to give people who might consider it otherwise bad ways.

I could grow weed and make tons of money, but I don't because the risk isn't worth it to me.

If you're fine with that, go for it, I could care less anymore sometimes.

Just leave me alone if you'll do whatever the f*** you want towards me too.  Its as simple as that.  Free Will isn't 'Do whatever you want' for me.
That's honestly a fast way to mess up your life in this society if you lack money.  Or Family.  Or Friends.

Like Me.  I can't go risking my everything, once my mom Dies I'm completely on my own.  No one is going to help me or throw me money, no one is going to care or do anything, there's really no one left around me that I can say cares about me beyond a friend they see now and then.  I have to consider my present life circumstances too.  I do not have any excess spare money.  I do not have anything that'll get me Shelter.  I have nothing that'll ensure my survival.
I'm not trapped, I'm distracted by all this stupid s***.  I shouldn't have to pay to God damn fucking survive in this place.

Its why I'm rapidly growing beyond tired of everything!   People, Earth, Philosophy, Life, Knowledge, Thought.  I'm tired of this place overall.  Don't really want to struggle and suffer another 23 years of my life, and then another 23 years...  and then die having done only one thing, Survived, and look what it net me if that is ALL I manage!  A life of trying to stay alive, until I die.

That is to me, the definition of a pointless life.  I'm tired of every day being exactly the same.  I'm tired of just witnessing disgusting fucks, I'm tired of loving and hating everything, and I'm tired of being alone

You could say I'm tired of Surviving, I almost didn't even want to anymore. I already don't want to eat or drink, and haven't really much at all.  I have 16oz of coffee a day.  Maybe a meal if I get the munchies from smoking but otherwise.  Naw.  I've lost 5 pounds, have been apathetic towards my own body, tired and sick of being sore and hurting and tired.  Always angry at something, take it out in Battlefield 4 by wiping the map sometimes (I get hate messages and have been banned from servers I used to frequent) or just laying in bed under the covers just not wanting to do anything feeling like I've got bugs all over me because my most recent ex gave them to me, because She never fucking told me she had them until I did...

Yes.  Forgive my anger, but I have no other idea how to iterate that I'd survive off of hose lines and prickly pear fruit, if I could.  But I am weak as far as dealing with s*** goes.  After a point, I do just give up.   When I see it WILL NOT get better, I stop bothering.  I'm too fucking tired as it is, I'm not wasting more energy just to get screwed more.

And that IS my life.  I've already lost next to everything I cared about once.  I refuse to go through that again.  That this place is like this, I sometimes desire to end this 'experiment'.

But I honestly just wish...I didn't fucking care so much. . .  Its literally the root of my problem in this life.  I get way too attached.  I just want to put down roots.  Not be alone.

I want a lot of things.  Cant have many of them.  Free Will as its described 'fits' but loosely only if I add that I'm limited versus Higher variants, that I am not equal.  But for a valid reason (debatable sometimes but overall accepted.)

Or that Free Will is the energy to be in 'control of yourself'.

I'm pretty furious about it.  I have a modicum of an idea what to do...but no land, money, or actual space to do such.  So now I save up and bide my time...

I hope this incarnation doesn't screw me up Soul wise too...

[Aion]

Let it all out, buddy.

I'll just say that I probably understand what you are going through more than you think. I spent three years homeless going through crazy s*** which almost drove me to suicide numerous times. I know the feels.

[The_Tired_Philosopher]

I am. Thank you. Sorry. Depression sucks. As does the prolonged biological reaction to anger being sadness, and vice versa.

Least Free Will exists. I wonder why Creator needed to state it as a First Distortion though.

[Minyatur]

I am.  Thank you.  Sorry.  Depression sucks.  As does the prolonged biological reaction to anger being sadness, and vice versa.

Least Free Will exists.  I wonder why Creator needed to state it as a First Distortion though.

It's not stated. You can equate it with the will of the Creator to know itself.

The First Distortion

Quo - September 25, 2010 Wrote:
You have asked about the first three distortions and, of course, as is our habit, we go back a bit to talk about the only thing that is not a distortion in terms of the cosmology of the Law of One, and that my friends, is unity.

Unity is the deepest and most profound truth that we know.

In the deepest sense the first distortion is free will, because it was by choosing by free will to know Itself that the Creator created the Creation of which you all are a part. He wished to know more about Himself.

Quo - June 27, 1993 Wrote:
When in the primeval unity of the creation the Creator chose through free will to express Itself the creation was articulated.

Hatonn - February 19, 1989 Wrote:
In the beginning there was the Creator. To the best of our knowledge, the first thing that occurred besides the Creator was that which is called free will. Thus, free will is that which is to be valued above all others things.

Quo - September 25, 2010 Wrote:
Each of you, as sparks of the Creator, have that free will, but the first experience of free will is that of the Creator’s. And, therefore, free will is far before manifestation.

Quo - October 8, 1989 Wrote:
Within that entity or quality which you have called the Godhead there exists a desire. That desire is to know the nature of that which you have called the Godhead, to know the nature of that great Self, to know the Source that is unmanifested from which that which is manifested springs, to know the possibilities of that which is manifest, to know if there is any boundary to that which is possible within manifestation, to explore as an adventurer that vast plenum of manifestation.

Thus, that sense of yearning to know is that quality which one may call the will. Thus, that which has no form or manifestation of any kind has provided the spark of desire, of will, that enlivens and enables that which is manifest, that there might be this great exploration of the nature of all that is, and that each portion of all that is might partake in this journey of seeking.

Thus: (free) Will = yearning, wishing, desire to know, to explore, to create

[Minyatur]

I think you try to seek answers in the ultimate layer where free will of the OIC emcompasses all, but the answers that might satisfy you more should be related to your near-past.

What were you doing as Co-Creator, why are you entangled with this particular planet among potentially infinite others, why exactly did you want to lead the life you are currently leading? Most of your near circumstances are of course an extension of the One's free will, but should mainly be the free will that is closest to you which is your own unveiled.

Each of us is the result of paths of experience of which we walk the steps of evolution. Why is each aspect of your current experience the mirror needed for your soul to learn what it needs to learn, so badly that you wanted to live the life that you hate living? Well no one is going to tell you that because that is your own to find.

[Plenum]

Its why I'm rapidly growing beyond tired of everything!   People, Earth, Philosophy, Life, Knowledge, Thought.  I'm tired of this place overall.  Don't really want to struggle and suffer another 23 years of my life, and then another 23 years...  and then die having done only one thing, Survived, and look what it net me if that is ALL I manage!  A life of trying to stay alive, until I die.

I think that's the very definition of Powerlessness.  The firm conviction that nothing is capable of being changed.

We've all been in such states (myself included).  It's not the state that is the issue. it's getting stuck there.  Whether it be for months (or even years).

But having come out the other side, and also seeing what Aion has stated, the forward projection of Powerlessness is only that.  

It's not that you suddenly think something - and physical reality just changes.  It's a matter of having cracks of Light appear in that Disempowered state, which gradually lead you out of that hole.

[The_Tired_Philosopher]

Kinda what it feels like. . .  Its weird how one day I'll be so enthralled and happy for these emotions ever existing.

We see what Egotistical free will does to Earth.

So much on my mind.  Plenum, how do you relax your self mentally when really stressed?

In the act of freedom in as Aion stated, freedom to do whatever I wwant, I bought a yoga mat and a 2100 pose yoga guide.  For really cheap actually.  So, I do listen to you all even if I disagree, I still understand on the infinite possibilities.

I might take a walk tonight.  In a dark park, the one I used to walk through to explore my shadow side's awareness of being in the dark.looking out.  It was very serene, and sometimes others were present doing stuff heh.  Its nice being invisible.  I don't judge what I observe when I'm detached in person.  I'm trying to be that way towards things I'm involved in but its hard.  Being tired makes it hard...

I need to switch to affirmatory sentence structuring in how I word things I often think.

[Plenum]

 Plenum, how do you relax your self mentally when really stressed?

Hmm.  It's not easy.  Not as easy as switching stress off like a light switch.

For me, I've probably still got lingering background anxiety, at a very low level.  There's traces of it, which I know are still there.  So I can't say that I've ever dissolved all my stress; at least to the point of total freedom, that I can faintly recall as a 4 year old - absolutely carefree.  Nothing traumatic happened at that age - it's just that I have that memory of being absolutely free - it stands out.

In terms of the larger patterns of stress rising, and stress falling, though, I do need my free time to help examine the catalyst behind such situations (causing the stress).  

So I don't have anything specific which I use (a mantra or visualisation) to help deal with stress.

Which brings in a tangential tie-in.  Meditation is often recommended to help calm the mind ... and yet, I find that above a certain threshold of confusion and anxiety, I can't actually still the mind to actually benefit from such meditation.  So I find it actually non-applicable in my case, as an aid in terms of calming.  I need to get to the other roots of the issue (of imbalance/catalyst) to actually be in a settled enough state where Meditation actually 'clicks in', and yields the calming benefit.

[The_Tired_Philosopher]

Same for me I noticed, some days I'll spend 15 minutes trying to meditate before I realize I'm just all emotionally everywhere and can't seem to actually keep my mind still, I can 'still' it, but it's very temporary, focusing on my breath helps somewhat but typically a minute or two in I'll be in the middle of a long line of thoughts before I notice I've stopped being 'still', like it slipped away.

I find Yoga helps though, so I usually do a few poses before meditating. Even then though, I need to relax my mind too for a good meditation to take effect otherwise it just feels like I'm struggling to get quiet.

[Jade]

Q'uo says a lot that it's not the subjective quality of the meditation that's important, but the act and intent. I think we all go under sometimes and come out realizing that there was no stillness, but sometimes stillness isn't what you need when you're meditating - sometimes you've just gotta turn up that subconscious mind a bit to help you begin to start dealing with the problem.

[Adonai One]

Free will is a distortion, it's an illusion. It's only useful as to see it doesn't actually exist and there is no reason to get caught up such as in games of fighting and believing suffering, attachments exist.

It's best not to take illusions and ruses too seriously, else you might become them yourself. I choose to relieve the first distortion towards oneness infinitely.

I am done with the "Free will" game for now: My, all will is always done thus there is no will to have.

[The_Tired_Philosopher]

So your All Will is No Will?

Makes sense to me actually.

Jade, I can agree with that...Just I meditate at work between 3-5am since I get the chance to do so sometimes, and its...I don't want to chance being in an angry or annoyed or irritated emotion when a customer walks in, so I try to guide myself to quiet and calm.  When it doesn't work is a bit worrisome,  then that knocks me out of meditation usually (anxiety breaks my concentration very easily for some reason).

But at home, totally absolutely agree.  Everything and anything is very useful!  I like how you call it the subconscious mind.  It totally is!  Even the thoughts feel like they've been quietly buried tumbling about inside of me. Like an automated Lower Courtyard balancing attempt. Its pretty cool.

[Aion]

I do almost entirely internal body alchemy meditation, or Chi Gung although I sometimes do other 'meditations' but I consider a different between meditating and doing 'energy work'. Everything I experience in my emotions I am aware of in my body. The mind in the body is represented by the breath.