Why I am a Vegan

[Nía]

Hi Plenum, hi everyone,

I know this is a rather personal thread, but as the topic is more positively than other threads of the similar subject, I will post the video I wanted to share with you here:

Hope that's OK. Otherwise, any suitable space would be appreciated.

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[Plenum]

Hi Plenum, hi everyone,

I know this is a rather personal thread, but as the topic is more positively than other threads of the similar subject, I will post the video I wanted to share with you here:

Hope that's OK. Otherwise, any suitable space would be appreciated.

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Hi facettes,

it's a great place to share that video; and thank you for doing so

just as an update:

I *was* vegan for about 6 months, but just recently, I've re-introduced eggs back into my diet.  I always go for the pricier (but ultimately, more kind) version of free-range eggs, and I sincerely hope that the chickens that lay those eggs live a life that has a more natural feel to it than the caged-chickens producing eggs.

My reason was, ultimately, one that is motivated by a more self-serving end, because I know it's *possible* to be vegan, and maintain it.

I chose to add eggs back in because I regarded it as a lifestyle choice.

My vast preference is to only eat one meal a day, and sometimes I can go 30 hours, 36 hours no probs.  Once I start getting into the day-and-a-half between meals, my mind actually starts sending some anxiety signals - hey man, it's been a while since you ate!  aren't you going to keel over and die of lack of energy/nutrition sometime soon ??  My body is perfectly fine; it maintains integrity, my stomach/digestive system does not complain ... and yet, once I start hitting that length of time between meals, some sort of survival buzzer gets triggered.  And I don't mind eating at all; I love my food, and I put a lot of care into what I eat.  But just the notion of eating every 2 days (that would equate to three meals a week!) seems a little too far off the beaten track

So I prefer to eat only once a day.  I find it more efficient that way, as there is prep time, and clean up time.

I think Van did ask me about my diet a little while ago, and I abstained from sharing.  I can probably share some more details here.

I pretty much have the same meal, although I'm not absolutely rigid about eating out, or getting stuff delivered.  But that's very occasional.

My Main Meal goes something like this:

* a litre of fresh fruit juice (I can tell you it takes a lot of fruit to produce a litre of juice ).  But I use a masticating juicer for that
* fried mashed chick peas + brown rice
* reheated vege casserole (usually with potatoes, onions, cabbage, and whatever is seasonal)
* two fried eggs with black pepper and celtic sea salt as seasonings
* some sort of bread, fried (very much a recent thing)

I do also have cheese (occasional) and butter (very occasional).

But I definitely don't fit in the 'vegan' band anymore.

But the eggs I added back in because it allowed me to consistently go for greater lengths of time between meals.  Whether that is the protein content, or just that it's a more energy dense source than anything else I had, I don't know.  But obviously, going on one meal a day, you have to be having extremely energy dense foods to make it feasible, without bloating yourself with obscene quantities of food

When I was vegan, I wasn't able to consistently maintain this pattern.  So that's why I say it's a lifestyle choice, more than anything else.

[Bourbon Betty]

To me, eating meat is indistinguishable from eating the waste product of an archetype. aka, Prayer.

You only eat what the archetype allows you to catch.

Optimally, I'd eat:

Anything plants give voluntarily (plant disease archtypes) (such as berries and fruits and bees and honey and milk)
Anything that eats things that plants would grow EVERYWHERE that wants to be eaten (deers and related in accordance with neutral chaotic) (such as highest grade organic hunted meats where killing the hunter is accetable and commended and the dead hunter is sold for meat to pisha...)
Anything that hunts against my preservation scheme with accordance to hunting for most common but least harmful to lose a part predator(own flesh in some processed form)
Anything to survive when own flesh would lead to instant death.

This seems reasonable. Not sure if it works like real, but one does not often munch on ones children's flesh *goes om nom nom at the kids cus they are so cute*

[Nía]

Hi Plenum, everyone,

it's a great place to share that video; and thank you for doing so

Thank you!

And thanks for sharing. It might have been a little challenge to do so, especially in this thread, I could imagine.  

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[Nía]

Hi Bourbon Betty, everyone,

just one little thought - or rather question:

Anything plants give voluntarily (plant disease archtypes) (such as berries and fruits and bees and honey and milk)

You will be aware bees and animals producing milk are no plants, but - do they give these products voluntarily? If you are convinced this is so - to whom?

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[Bourbon Betty]

Hi Bourbon Betty, everyone,

just one little thought - or rather question:

Anything plants give voluntarily (plant disease archtypes) (such as berries and fruits and bees and honey and milk)

You will be aware bees and animals producing milk are no plants, but - do they give these products voluntarily? If you are convinced this is so - to whom?

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I've become convinced eating honey and drinking milk is similar in morality to watching adult entertainement.

I feel animals in symbiosis with plant life to produce something strictly for a 3rd creature to eat is the essence of sexuality and the essence of food.

They produce the food for their children and in return for assistance with child care trade with berries. That's what I get from berries and honey and milk and similar, they are childcare requests.

Not even sure if that makes sense, though to me it seems that an animal can sour its own milk but it cant sour its own flesh.

[Nía]

Hi Bourbon Betty and everyone,

thanks for your reply.

I've become convinced eating honey and drinking milk is similar in morality to watching adult entertainement.

That's a very interesting thought.

Not even sure if that makes sense, though to me it seems that an animal can sour its own milk but it cant sour its own flesh.

Only you can decide that for yourself, I guess.

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[Bourbon Betty]

Hi Bourbon Betty and everyone,

thanks for your reply.

I've become convinced eating honey and drinking milk is similar in morality to watching adult entertainement.

That's a very interesting thought.

Not even sure if that makes sense, though to me it seems that an animal can sour its own milk but it cant sour its own flesh.

Only you can decide that for yourself, I guess.

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More interesting, would you eat a voluntarily dropped salamanders tail?

[Nía]

Hi Bourbon Betty,

More interesting, would you eat a voluntarily dropped salamanders tail?

I'm not sure whether it is more interesting , but to answer the question from my personal point of view:

• Ethically, it would be acceptable to eat the tail in case it was really dropped voluntarily. As far as I know, salamanders do drop their tails only in fear of death to free themselves from a predator's (or something/someone perceived-as-predator's) grip, and so it wouldn't be voluntarily.
  
  
• Personally, I would
  
  1. find it disgusting as it is dead flesh and therefore already in the process of decaying and
     
  2. considering the very likely chance of the animal having dropped the tail in fear of death, it would contain hormones associated with stress, fear and probably pain (like adrenaline, noradrenaline, cortisol and endorphins), which I would definitely not want to consume.
     

So, in all likelihood, the practical answer would be no. Theoretically, it depends.

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[Minyatur]

Pershaps you could transmute the negative energies within yourself? Which could be helpful toward the planet's vibration.

[Nía]

Thanks Minyatur,

Pershaps you could transmute the negative energies within yourself? Which could be helpful toward the planet's vibration.

that's a very constructive thought, thank you.

I think that's what I'm trying to do with living/incarnated entities (3rd D, but to an extent also 2nd D) suffering immensely, at least as much as possible for me (and without the ingestion part ), because there are so many and very intense negative energies once someone is suffering in these extreme circumstances I'm talking about (and 3rd D are suffering on more levels there), but I don't know would it be possible/helpful if I did that as well with instances, in which I most likely had a part in creating them (by making animals 'drop' their tails, keep/making others keep them in captivity and take their eggs and milk and so on)? Maybe it's one of those paradoxes - is it even possible to transmute these kind of negative energies without creating them/other ones in the first place? This could only be resolved by making sure I had no part in it, as in eating corpses of animals overrun by cars or the like. If this would be the case: Would it really help if I had a negative feeling doing so, being disgusted by the mere nature of it?

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[Minyatur]

Thanks Minyatur,

Pershaps you could transmute the negative energies within yourself? Which could be helpful toward the planet's vibration.

that's a very constructive thought, thank you.

I think that's what I'm trying to do with living/incarnated entities (3rd D, but to an extent also 2nd D) suffering immensely, at least as much as possible for me (and without the ingestion part ), because there are so many and very intense negative energies once someone is suffering in these extreme circumstances I'm talking about (and 3rd D are suffering on more levels there), but I don't know would it be possible/helpful if I did that as well with instances, in which I most likely had a part in creating them (by making animals 'drop' their tails, keep/making others keep them in captivity and take their eggs and milk and so on)? Maybe it's one of those paradoxes - is it even possible to transmute these kind of negative energies without creating them/other ones in the first place? This could only be resolved by making sure I had no part in it, as in eating corpses of animals overrun by cars or the like. If this would be the case: Would it really help if I had a negative feeling doing so, being disgusted by the mere nature of it?

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Probably not, but that is relative of the perspective you wish to have for yourself.

I don't actually create them either, I would not eat meat if I had to kill for it. I take what's already there as per the free will of others.

[Nía]

Hi Miniyatur,

Probably not...

but maybe others could, given he/she/it/they found involuntarily dropped salamanders' tails, over-run corpses or other residues of animals that have suffered/felt stress, fear, anxiety etc. before 'dropping' them or dying, and they would not be disgusted by eating them.

...  but that is relative of the perspective you wish to have for yourself.

It always is, I suppose - at least to a certain degree.

Sorry, I first missed your last quote.

I don't actually create them either, I would not eat meat if I had to kill for it. I take what's already there as per the free will of others.

No harm inflicted so. ❦

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[Monica]

You will be aware bees and animals producing milk are no plants, but - do they give these products voluntarily? If you are convinced this is so - to whom?

Bees and cows don't give those products voluntarily. It is taken from them. Bees produce honey to get them through the winter. Humans steal their honey and replace it with sugar water, which is one of many factors now weakening the bee population. When all the bees die, humans will die.

Cows produce milk only when they have nursing babies. On farms, cows are artificially impregnated (raped by a man's arm in a glove) and as soon as their baby is born, the baby is stolen, and the cow is forced to give her milk that was intended for her baby, while her baby is kept in tiny, dark crate, barely able to even turn around, and then killed for veal. The meat and dairy industries are 2 sides of the same coin.

Does this look like voluntary offering of their milk?

The Dairy Industry in 60 Seconds Flat

[Nía]

Hi Monica,

thank you for sharing all this information. I very much hope it will be able to spark feelings and actions of compassion in at least some of it's readers.

Did you know the video I've been posting above? I like it very much as it combines many different aspects. There's also a great brochure of the same NGO you might like.

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[Nicholas]

Plant Power. 

[Nía]

Thanks Nicholas,

wow, almost speechless - this video, no, this man is incredible. I know a couple of people who will be very interested in the video - and not only because he is vegan, but as a bonus. ❧ Amazing!

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[Monica]

Thanks Nicholas,

wow, almost speechless - this video, no, this man is incredible. I know a couple of people who will be very interested in the video - and not only because he is vegan, but as a bonus. ❧ Amazing!

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B-b-b-b-but....where does he get his protein??

[Nicholas]

B-b-b-b-but....where does he get his protein??

Well according to Frank he gets it from "plant based protein". I only scrolled down to the second page of my "where does he get his protein" search. Is that a rhetorical question Monica? The reason I ask is because I am now slightly suspicious of his sincerity, especially after watching this video interview of him...



His body language does not verify what he says in this interview 3.00 minutes in. His statement of truth is punctuated by scratching his cheek which implies to me that what he says does not represent what he does. 
Are you also sceptical Monica?

[Plenum]

he gets his protein from 'Plant Power', Nicholas.

I think xise and Monica have both referenced 'vegan bodybuilders' in the past.  I think Diana also mentioned knowing a HUGE bodybuilder irl, and he was a raw foodie.

I also watched that vid you just linked (saw it yesterday, when digging around on this Frank guy), and he did say he was only vegan for 2 years.

He's definitely ripped; not sure how his health is in other respects.  There is a certain healthiness in treating the body as a temple.  But like all other things, one can make an obsession of temples, at the expense of other qualities.  But yeah, we do need each to exemplify (and somewhat exaggerate) the various distortions of the Creator.  That ain't necessarily a bad thing

[Monica]

I was being facetious. Pleased to meet you, Nicholas! I have engaged in these discussions over the past 5 years and have posted many videos of vegan athletes. There are many! Some are even raw vegans. And some are gorillas.

[Nicholas]

  There is a certain healthiness in treating the body as a temple. 

Yes I very much agree. The care and respect (Ra's wording) of our immediate home I would imagine to be very important at this time. Although a ripped appearance is a rare outcome of such treatment, it certainly has an inspiring quality to it 

I was being facetious. Pleased to meet you, Nicholas! I have engaged in these discussions over the past 5 years and have posted many videos of vegan athletes. There are many! Some are even raw vegans. And some are gorillas.

lol Monica. We had already become acquainted over on the Law of One religion thread. Your energy input and emotive personality on Bring4th really impressed me and after you took a short break from the forums, I welcomed your return   

I think my username might have been 'nio' at the time though? I am no expert on reading body language (neither am I very good at reading you Monica haha), however so thank you both for your imput!

[Nía]

B-b-b-b-but....where does he get his protein??

This one's not for you Monica (you know this already), but for anyone who really wonders: Vegan Athletes... How do you get your Protein? (of course there's plenty more sources of information re this issue out there).

Although a ripped appearance is a rare outcome of such treatment, it certainly has an inspiring quality to it  

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[Monica]

lol Monica. We had already become acquainted over on the Law of One religion thread. Your energy input and emotive personality on Bring4th really impressed me and after you took a short break from the forums, I welcomed your return   

I think my username might have been 'nio' at the time though? I am no expert on reading body language (neither am I very good at reading you Monica haha), however so thank you both for your imput!

Ah! I got confused when I came back and didn't recognize some people because they had changed their usernames. I do remember you now.

Plus, on an internet forum we can't see/hear body language, facial expressions, or tone of voice at all!

[Nicholas]

Plus, on an internet forum we can't see/hear body language, facial expressions, or tone of voice at all!

Yeah but I have an unfair advantage as I have heard you plenty in the, In The Now archives    

Okay back to topic! I am much like Plenum here in that I would love to eventually become vegan but I love my eggs too much. There is a lovely lady a few minutes walk up my road who keeps chickens in her back garden, they are free range, affordable and taste delicious. I don't know if they are fed organically but I like the feel of the place when I go collect my weekly dozen. Also, being a bricklayer demands a fair bit of calories for an 8 hour day.

Mind you, it may be more psychological as Frank Medrano surely burns more calories than I do. I just love omelettes too much!

[Nía]

I just love omelettes too much!

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=vegan+omelette



[I know it's not the same. Does it have to be, if it's tasty (which some of those probably aren't, but others may well be...)? Maybe worth a try, or two?]

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[Monica]

Yeah but I have an unfair advantage as I have heard you plenty in the, In The Now archives    

Ah, not fair!   But I'm glad to hear you've heard some of the old shows!  

Okay back to topic! I am much like Plenum here in that I would love to eventually become vegan but I love my eggs too much. There is a lovely lady a few minutes walk up my road who keeps chickens in her back garden, they are free range, affordable and taste delicious. I don't know if they are fed organically but I like the feel of the place when I go collect my weekly dozen. Also, being a bricklayer demands a fair bit of calories for an 8 hour day.

Well, technically, eating any eggs at all isn't vegan, and my vegan friends would all disagree with me here, but being that my dad raised chickens and I observed that they laid eggs almost daily, regardless of whether there was a rooster in the yard or not, I personally don't have an issue with eggs gathered thusly. Provided, of course, that the chickens truly are allowed to freely forage in a large area. The only issue I have with that isn't so much the eggs themselves, but the fact that those chickens aren't being raised just for eggs, but will surely be slaughtered for meat at some point. That is the main reason I personally don't like to support it at all, and wouldn't, if it were just for myself, but I have an extended family of carnivorous animals whom I'm transitioning to vegan, and during this transition, I do buy eggs from chickens raised thusly, for my doggies. I would never buy eggs from the store, even the ones labeled 'cage free' because labeling means nothing. The egg industry is exceedingly cruel.

Having said that, I can see how it would be difficult to be vegan when eating only 1 meal per day. All nutrients can be found in plants, but eggs are vibrationally heavier, while plants are lighter and move through the system faster. For me personally, I'd rather eat more often but lighter.

Here is a raw vegan bodybuilder:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73Xhbw8dJzQ

Fruits and veggies digest very quickly and must be eaten more often, but nuts, seeds, and healthy carbs (potatoes, whole grains, beans, legumes, etc.) are very sustaining and last longer. The hardcore athletes eat about 4000 calories per day, all from vegan foods! They must snack several times, because they put such a heavy demand on their bodies. For us normal folk, a handful of nuts or a slice of toast with some nut butter can be a very satisfying snack.

Mind you, it may be more psychological as Frank Medrano surely burns more calories than I do. I just love omelettes too much!

Yes, quite likely! Have you ever tried making a vegan omelette? If it's the taste and texture you like, there are now many vegan options that closely mimic eggs.

[Pablísimo]

Hi folks,

I thought I'd chime in and pass on an awesome vegan tip that has really helped me with sustained energy and avoiding hunger.  I've been vegan for 3 years now, following 14 years of vegetarianism, and have found that I've had to make some practical adjustments in order to stay happy and healthy as a vegan.

I'm not exactly like Plenum in that I do eat 4 times a day, but I repeat the same 4 meals, day after day after day.  This has given me a wonderful opportunity to experiment and figure out the optimal mealplan and portion sizes (for me).  I'm honestly in the best health I've ever been, and it was well worth the effort to transition -- but it took some serious effort to get to this point.

The hunger-busting secret I found: Avocados!  Despite feeling good from lunch through bedtime, I always had trouble with getting hungry between breakfast and lunch.  Though I experimented with many different combinations, nothing worked to keep me feeling full and energized without needing a snack before lunch.  I should mention that I'd already learned that I'm one of those people that seems to need a large daily amount of protein to feel my best -- so I'm heavy on the beans, quinoa, and legumes --  but even large amounts of protein and carbs in the morning didn't do the trick.

What FINALLY worked was the humble avocado!  Simply adding half an avocado to my breakfast (which also includes good sources of carbs and protein) completely sates my hunger right through to lunch. By adding avocado, I found I had to reduce the other components of my breakfast because I was just so full.  If I eat a full avocado, I can't even finish my breakfast.  It's truly amazing!  I think it must be the fat in this fruit, though it's very nice that it's also packed with vitamins and minerals.  Fat is the one macronutrient that is relatively low in my vegan diet overall, and I noticed it is also low in Plenum's daily meal without eggs.  Apparently adding that fat to breakfast is what my body needs to function optimally.

I didn't used to like avocados, but now regard them as one of my most important and valuable food sources.  I feel wonderful adding these little gems to my daily breakfast.  They are also good emergency food for unexpected travel.

I'm just throwing it out there ... if anyone is having trouble with feeling hungry on a vegan diet and you're already getting enough overall calories, carbs, and protein, you might want try an avocado and see if it helps.  Everyone's body is different, and your mileage may vary, but something so simple has made all the difference in the world for me.  Yay avocados

http://www.fitday.com/fitness-articles/n...nsume.html
http://www.wholeliving.com/134218/power-foods-avocado
http://www.mensfitness.com/nutrition/wha...re-avocado


P.S. If you are eating a vegan/mostly vegan diet, please take sublingual B12 several times a week.  It's more important than you may realize.

[native]

Thanks for the tip! Glad you found an answer. I'm always looking for ways to feel full. I looked avocado's up..they're also high in fiber which helps too. I never liked them much but I'm learning to..good guacamole is divine. Something like olive oil would work too with the fat content, but if you're like me you'll get pimples eating oily food on a regular basis.

[Nía]

Hi Pablísimo, hi all,

thanks for writing down your experiences, and what works for you.  

I'm just throwing it out there ... if anyone is having trouble with feeling hungry on a vegan diet and you're already getting enough overall calories, carbs, and protein, you might want try an avocado and see if it helps.  Everyone's body is different, and your mileage may vary, but something so simple has made all the difference in the world for me.  Yay avocados

+1  

For others, who don't like or can't get avocados, it might be one or several bananas, though nutritionally a little less valuable than avocados, or a handful of nuts. For all of them, please consider buying them organic, for your health and the planet's, and for bananas also fairly traded, for some basic rights to the producers.

P.S. If you are eating a vegan/mostly vegan diet, please take sublingual B12 several times a week.  It's more important than you may realize.

Another +1 - might be worth a try/blood sample for meat-eaters, too!

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