To Vaccinate or Not

[Diana]

.

I agree, Scott.  anagogy is wrong to say that it's not wrong to get vaccinated.  It is wrong!  As sure as water is wet, vaccinations are an illuminati tactic to debilitate the human race, a genocidal program to cull the population.  Sorry, but that's the diabolical truth of the matter.  All I can say is do your due diligence.  I have.  And it's not what I want to believe but a true scientist, a sincere seeker of truth will follow the evidence wherever it leads.  Big Pharma is a Rockefeller creation as is modern education, both powerful vehicles for control of the population.  Again, do the research.  It's our duty not to cooperate with the forces of evil.  Learn who is the true enemy.  The Muslims?  Ha!  Guess again. 

Sounds like all that dope is making you paranoid.

How dare you come on here and bluntly tell folks what to believe?
You sound like a scared and seriously delusional individual.

For your information if the Family should desire to "cull" anyone on this planet it could be done instantly, not by some outlandish vaccination scheme.
You really seem to underestimate the Illuminati power.

You don't even seem to understand what the term "due diligence" means.
It's a term used in business. It's part of what my wife and I do for a living.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Due_diligence

Have you had any personal experience that can back up any of your fear based transient theories, or are they just the result of excessive weed smoking in front of the computer?

Please tell us who the "real enemy" is then.

My working theory on the control this world experiences, is that it is compartmentalized. I agree that if there were an ultimate group of persons hidden, and manipulating the planetary dynamics, that this group would be all-powerful and able to wipe out whatever they wanted all at once. But this seems too simplistic to me.

Even a cursory look at any government will reveal that it is compartmentalized. One group or person doesn't have the entire picture at any one time. This is what makes it possible for a person to be doing something they believe is good when it is causing harm. For instance, pharmaceuticals do some good, but what people don't know in general is that the molecular structure must be changed from its natural state in order to patent a drug (this is what causes side effects; natural white willow bark taken is a pain killer, but aspirin, derived from white willow bark, while it kills pain, will make the stomach bleed); this doesn't mean that the drug doesn't do any good, but it also does harm. Things get convoluted and complex. Nothing is really black and white.

If there were an ultimate controlling cabal, that wouldn't mean there weren't many more layers of control beneath the most powerful one. In order to keep the whole thing going, you can't just be an all-powerful dictatorship, because people will eventually rebel. People need to feel they are doing something good or at least purposeful. That's why compartmentalization works so well. I also think that those who are in control want to, or do, believe they are doing it for the general good (after all, someone must steer the sleeping masses who can't guide themselves) and in this way, they can justify control.

Vaccinations may have ingredients in them that are efficacious for preventing or discouraging disease, but it is also known that other ingredients are added such as mercury, which is poisonous. Of course, drug testing results will claim that so many parts per million of any toxin are safe (which to me is a crazy way to think), and we can thank the countless poor animals being tested on to come to those, often skewed in my opinion, conclusions. 

This is the central issue of the dilemma—there may be good in vaccinations, but there is also bad—hence what to do? So I would honor any parent who actually makes the agonizing decision to vaccinate or not, based on their own conclusions and research. 

I'm not sure why someone who was vaccinated would be in fear of someone who was not. Isn't the vaccination protecting them? Otherwise, why get it at all?

As for people in Africa, why don't we help FEED them instead of crisis managing things like disease. I see nothing wrong with managing disease, but the bottom line doesn't improve. People must get healthy, not sick and medicated. And before anyone asks, I have been to 3rd world countries (very poor ones), though not specifically any African countries. 

[Shawnna]

.

I agree, Scott.  anagogy is wrong to say that it's not wrong to get vaccinated.  It is wrong!  As sure as water is wet, vaccinations are an illuminati tactic to debilitate the human race, a genocidal program to cull the population.  Sorry, but that's the diabolical truth of the matter.  All I can say is do your due diligence.  I have.  And it's not what I want to believe but a true scientist, a sincere seeker of truth will follow the evidence wherever it leads.  Big Pharma is a Rockefeller creation as is modern education, both powerful vehicles for control of the population.  Again, do the research.  It's our duty not to cooperate with the forces of evil.  Learn who is the true enemy.  The Muslims?  Ha!  Guess again. 

Sounds like all that dope is making you paranoid.

How dare you come on here and bluntly tell folks what to believe?
You sound like a scared and seriously delusional individual.

For your information if the Family should desire to "cull" anyone on this planet it could be done instantly, not by some outlandish vaccination scheme.
You really seem to underestimate the Illuminati power.

You don't even seem to understand what the term "due diligence" means.
It's a term used in business. It's part of what my wife and I do for a living.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Due_diligence

Have you had any personal experience that can back up any of your fear based transient theories, or are they just the result of excessive weed smoking in front of the computer?

Please tell us who the "real enemy" is then.

I learned in Kindergarten that if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all. That little lesson has served me quite well.

[Nicholas]

This is the central issue of the dilemma—there may be good in vaccinations, but there is also bad—hence what to do? So I would honor any parent who actually makes the agonizing decision to vaccinate or not, based on their own conclusions and research. 

Yes!

The heart of the matter is honouring the sovereignty of the individual first. My reservations about pro vaccine and anti vaccine positions are the attempts made to persuade others with emotionally loaded sentences. Bill Gates pretty much said that if you advocate against vaccination then you are a killer. How more loaded and divisive can you get than "...you killed them".

For what it is worth I immediately lurched into the anti vaccine position purely from watching Bill on TED and in interviews. Then I realised the same tactics being employed their too. I think a good dosage of meditation is the go to source for whether to vaccinate or not, send the call for guidance and be attentive towards the signposts.

[Shemaya]

This is the central issue of the dilemma—there may be good in vaccinations, but there is also bad—hence what to do? So I would honor any parent who actually makes the agonizing decision to vaccinate or not, based on their own conclusions and research. 

Yes!

The heart of the matter is honouring the sovereignty of the individual first. My reservations about pro vaccine and anti vaccine positions are the attempts made to persuade others with emotionally loaded sentences. Bill Gates pretty much said that if you advocate against vaccination then you are a killer. How more loaded and divisive can you get than "...you killed them".

That emotional manipulation is a tool to keep us compliant.  We are emotionally manipulated about many things, vaccinations just one of them.  When I see that energy, it is definitely a red flag to me to ask deeper questions.  

I totally agree with you Nicholas.  You can't get much more divisive than calling someone a " killer".  For Gates it's a purposeful , manipulative, us/ them tactic to make people feel guilt or shame if they don't want to follow the herd.

[indolering]

.

I dare to relate my research to anyone on these boards expressing their opinions.  If you disagree with it, how about some real rebuttal?  You sound like you know all about 'the Family' (whoever they are) - you're quite certain vaccinations have nothing to do with a hostile agenda....  And you seem to know all about me and my dope and my delusional and paranoid character.  In fact, judging by your posts, you know it all, don't you?  Why don't you just enlighten us all with your vast experience and be done with it?

I don't have to experience every affront to humanity to know it exists - that's called research, something which you have in limited supply, it seems.  My 'fear-based', 'transient' theories are based on real research, Mr Ashim.  Do you work for the pharmaceutical industry?  is that where you learned that the illuminati would never use vaccinations as a tactic to subdue the population?  Your 'transient' objections to conspiracy research is about to reach critical mass when you find yourself confronted by agents of the New World Order who tell you which FEMA camp you are about to enter.  Sure, it's all a dope-fuelled, paranoid, fear-based fantasy, isn't it, Ashim.  Tell everyone things are fine, that the economy is recovering nicely, that the 2016 elections will set things right again, that one must do his due diligence at one's job and that you'll be duly rewarded.

I dare to tell the truth as I see it - if I use forceful language, well, get used to it.  I'm tired of people spouting delusional rants about things they know nothing about.  I write about things I know.  Let's hear your rebuttal.  And you can cease with the ad hominem attacks which only show your bankrupt status.  Come on, Mr Ashim - why is Big Pharma pushing so hard for their poison jabs...?  Is it just the money?  Really?  

Any more attacks on my character, and i shall refrain from answering any more of your responses.  Perhaps that suits you.  I couldn't care less.  You're just one more who thinks they know it all.

[AnthroHeart]

*hugs and warm light to all*

[indolering]

*hugs and warm light to all*

Thank you, wolfie.  You're a refreshing light on these boards....

[Ashim]

*hugs and warm light to all*

Gemini are you glad that you have your meds? Have they helped you?

[Ashim]

.

I dare to relate my research to anyone on these boards expressing their opinions.  

Yes, you come over as being quite daring, or as jumpy as a bag of frogs on speed.

If you disagree with it, how about some real rebuttal?  You sound like you know all about 'the Family' (whoever they are) -

Are you not familiar with the affairs of your own family?

you're quite certain vaccinations have nothing to do with a hostile agenda....  with it?

No, in fact if you had read the entire thread you would see that I in fact defended the postulation that this could be true, on a case-for-case basis of course. You jumped to the conclusion that the Illuminati had a general plan to "cull the population".

I don't have to experience every affront to humanity to know it exists - that's called research, something which you have in limited supply,

Well, it loooks like your 'research' has not taken you to study your so called "enemy" yet. The info in the public domain is not complete but will give you the general idea. http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/bloodlines/

.  I write about things I know.  Let's hear your rebuttal.

I asked you specifically to state  your personal experience on these matters and not just what you read on the internet. True knowing comes from integrated experience not from the writings and often mistaken opinions of others.

 And you can cease with the ad hominem attacks which only show your bankrupt status.  Come on, Mr Ashim - why is Big Pharma pushing so hard for their poison jabs...?  Is it just the money?  Really?

I have nothing to do with the pharma industry. Interesting that you make that false conclusion whilst adding insult along the way. 

 

Any more attacks on my character, and i shall refrain from answering any more of your responses.  Perhaps that suits you.  I couldn't care less.  You're just one more who thinks they know it all.

I have no problem with discourse. Maybe we could address some more research, either yours or mine?

[Ashim]

[quote pid='172011' dateline='1424939907']
I learned in Kindergarten that if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all.  That little lesson has served me quite well.


[/quote]

Whilst it sounds nice it fails to provide a solution for conflict.
Why should you suppress your negative thoughts in order to molly coddle the ego of another self?

<Material removed per moderator review.>

[AnthroHeart]

*hugs and warm light to all*

Gemini are you glad that you have your meds? Have they helped you?

I don't mind taking them. But I don't like the blood test they have to do every 6 months or so for one of them. I'm going to see if I can switch that med to another. Yes, I believe they keep me grounded.

[Bluebell]

i just wanna say... it's white & gold!

[Ashim]

i just wanna say... it's white & gold!

lol! Most certainly blue and black!

[Ashim]

*hugs and warm light to all*

Gemini are you glad that you have your meds? Have they helped you?

I don't mind taking them. But I don't like the blood test they have to do every 6 months or so for one of them. I'm going to see if I can switch that med to another. Yes, I believe they keep me grounded.

So it does not look like big pharma have a dasterdly plan to kill you then.
Wow,  am I relieved at that.

Maybe we should tell Indolering that it's not all a big conspiricy and that millions of others are helped immensly by the discoveries of the pharma industry, especially in the area of mental health.

That's  the sad thing here. Some folks would like to deny others the right to a relatively sane and normal lifestyle due to their limited research of conspiricy topics and the panicked fear mongering that often ensues.

Meds are drugs - and we all know that drugs can be useful tools for some, whilst having other more negative effects on others.
To launch an 'all out' attack on the pharma industry is ignoring the beneficial work done by folks working diligently in their profession for the betterment of the human condition.

[Bluebell]

i think people should be able to take meds/vaccines if so inclined. i just don't agree w forcing things on people. that whole "do wut u want, harm none"...

also, if everyone that believes in vaccines gets their kids vaccinated, how can my unvaccinated kid cause an outbreak or pandemic in the vaccinated crowd? i'm confused.

[Jade]

The question is, is medicating people the best way to solve our health problems? Gemini sees a therapist too but from what he's told us and what I recall, the therapist doesn't really allow much discussion of "woo-woo"-y topics and puts them on lockdown. For mental health especially, this is usually the case and I would think most people who follow the Law of One would see that as unhealthy and unbalanced. I don't think anyone's saying that Gemini shouldn't take his drugs that HAVE helped him feel better, but the current paradigm that medication = solution is becoming less and less accurate.

There are lots of natural "drugs" and herbs that perform most of the functions that we currently rely upon patented chemicals to do. It would be nicer if "pharma" spent money researching plants that we already have access to instead of finding new ways to sell industrial byproducts.

For what it's worth, what I think Gemini deserves is someone who he can talk to face-to-face on a regular basis who accepts and at least tries to understand him as well as most of us do here. That would be a successful move in mental health.

[Shawnna]

i think people should be able to take meds/vaccines if so inclined. i just don't agree w forcing things on people. that whole "do wut u want, harm none"...

also, if everyone that believes in vaccines gets their kids vaccinated, how can my unvaccinated kid cause an outbreak or pandemic in the vaccinated crowd? i'm confused.

The problem is we've got a good number of individuals who think this way - 'how can my unvaccinated kid cause an outbreak when the majority are getting vaccinated?'

The fear that is driving those to avoid sound science and participate in good public health policy is just that..... FEAR. When fear is your driving force, love can't come through.

Putting others at risk because of your fear-based decisions is very selfish.

https://medium.com/matter/your-cough-mig...8c8c6d0a26

[Bluebell]

ur the one who sounds fearful Shawnna. my personal opinion is based on reason & health. & u didn't answer my question. how can i cause a vaccinated person to fall ill?

[Bluebell]

basically Shawnna, if u vaccinate ur kids, my kid won't make them ill. that's as far as ur interest in my kid should go. u do not get to inject anything into MY kid, because of ur own fears & selfish need to control others.

[Shawnna]

ur the one who sounds fearful Shawnna. my personal opinion is based on reason & health. & u didn't answer my question. how can i cause a vaccinated person to fall ill?

My apologies Bluebell.

Your unvaccinated child is at risk for causing harm to other vulnerable populations - including children who for valid medical reasons may need to delay or avoid certain vaccinations.

I am not fearful of vaccinations. And I've personally experienced Measles, Mumps, and Chicken Pox and was close to death with each as a child.

What I am is living my life fully conscious of the impact the choices I make may have on others.

[Ashim]

 It would be nicer if "pharma" spent money researching plants that we already have access to instead of finding new ways to sell industrial byproducts.

For what it's worth, what I think Gemini deserves is someone who he can talk to face-to-face on a regular basis who accepts and at least tries to understand him as well as most of us do here. That would be a successful move in mental health.

It's not about "nicer". Pharma Industry like all others is driven by profit alone.
Profit does not blink at the 'right' or 'wrong' of things.
Profit and all the associated social phenomenon that follows it's pursuit is what oils the wheels of the societies we chose to incarnate into (with very few indiginous exceptions).
The demand for products and services comes from the populus, not from some secret 'dark' cabal.

They (the populus) can make either informed or uninformed choices regarding what they choose to put in their body.
When this responsibility to inform oneself is delegated to others there will always be elements willing and able to profit by more negative and controlling means.

An example is the growing assortment of veggie and vegan food at my local store.
They check their sales, report to the manufacturers, who in turn produce more or less of the product to meet demand.

Sure, there was the incident of avian flu in germany not so long ago. There was a vaccine being promoted in the wake of the usual fear mongering in the MSM.
Folks were generally sceptical. There were reports of people becoming very ill seemingly due to the vaccine itself, or at least some compound involved.
The overwhelming majority of the population chose not to vaccinate.
I, like many others went to my local pharmacy and quizzed Frau P. who's qualified opinions I am prepared to listen too.
She was sceptical too.

I don't think you are in a position to tell Gemini what he deserves or what he needs.
I'm sure he can handle that on his own or with his own doctors/professionals.
I sounds like you are suggesting that counseling could replace his medication.

[Ashim]

ur the one who sounds fearful Shawnna. my personal opinion is based on reason & health. & u didn't answer my question. how can i cause a vaccinated person to fall ill?

My apologies Bluebell.

Your unvaccinated child is at risk for causing harm to other vulnerable populations - including children who for valid medical reasons may need to delay or avoid certain vaccinations.

I am not fearful of vaccinations.  And I've personally experienced Measles, Mumps, and Chicken Pox and was close to death with each as a child.  

What I am is living my life fully conscious of the impact the choices I make may have on others.

You are bluntly telling others what they should have injected into their childrens bodies.
Not only this you are accusing non-compliers of being guilty of causing harm.

Despite a long discourse here you have dodged and avoided direct questions, whilst repeating the same nonsence.

<Material removed per moderator review.>

[Ashim]

This is the central issue of the dilemma—there may be good in vaccinations, but there is also bad—hence what to do? So I would honor any parent who actually makes the agonizing decision to vaccinate or not, based on their own conclusions and research. 

Yes!

The heart of the matter is honouring the sovereignty of the individual first. My reservations about pro vaccine and anti vaccine positions are the attempts made to persuade others with emotionally loaded sentences. Bill Gates pretty much said that if you advocate against vaccination then you are a killer. How more loaded and divisive can you get than "...you killed them".

That emotional manipulation is a tool to keep us compliant.  We are emotionally manipulated about many things, vaccinations just one of them.  When I see that energy, it is definitely a red flag to me to ask deeper questions.  

I totally agree with you Nicholas.  You can't get much more divisive than calling someone a " killer".  For Gates it's a purposeful , manipulative, us/ them tactic to make people feel guilt or shame if they don't want to  follow the herd.

The exact quote and context please, if you would be so kind.
Where did Bill Gates say this?

[ScottK]

The fear that is driving those to avoid sound science and participate in good public health policy is just that..... FEAR.  When fear is your driving force, love can't come through.

http://vactruth.com/2009/07/21/dr-andrew...-vaccines/

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/new-pap...2014-05-13

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1616081694?pldnSite=1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXTJOhr6ddQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl...sZbVg6vmVs

http://www.anh-usa.org/mumps-vaccine-pro...effective/

http://www.sott.net/article/248595-Merck...d-by-Media

http://vaxtruth.org/2011/08/vaccine-ingredients/

http://vactruth.com/2011/03/21/children-...-in-india/

http://tribune.com.pk/story/712640/myste...les-shots/

https://childhealthsafety.wordpress.com/graphs/

https://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/2014/...leblowers/

http://vactruth.com/2014/10/05/bill-gate...ne-crimes/

http://www.naturalnews.com/047930_whoopi...tions.html#

https://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/2014/...fe-really/

I'll stop there for brevity..  "Sound Science", Ehh?

[Nicholas]

I'll stop there for brevity..  "Sound Science", Ehh?

EDIT: And dogma ten mechanistic medicine is the only medicine that really works. - Rupert Sheldrake (5 mins)

[Shawnna]

Please post scientific articles based on sound science.

For example, this article recently from MedScape.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/8399...ac=80819FJ

I've downloaded the above article as a pdf as those who aren't registered on Medscape may not be able to access it.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzJzyKM...sp=sharing

[Shawnna]

And here's another.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzJzyKM...sp=sharing

For those who are really interested in the science, you may want to register as there is a wealth of medical information here.

http://www.medscape.com/resource/vaccines

[AnthroHeart]

I'm not afraid of dying from a vaccine. I got one for Tetanus. But it's the only one I'll get.

[Ashim]

Please post scientific articles based on sound science.  

For example, this article recently from MedScape.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/8399...ac=80819FJ

I've downloaded the above article as a pdf as those who aren't registered on Medscape may not be able to access it.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzJzyKM...sp=sharing

Brought to you by these folks:

In more whistle-blowing quarters, WebMD is synonymous with Big Pharma Shilling. A February 2010 investigation into WebMD’s relationship with drug maker Eli Lilly by Senator Chuck Grassley of Iowa confirmed the suspicions of longtime WebMD users. With the site’s (admitted) connections to pharmaceutical and other companies, WebMD has become permeated with pseudomedicine and subtle misinformation.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/06/magazi....html?_r=0

[Shawnna]

The Center for Disease Control has great information about vaccines too.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/