The Art and Practice of Magick

[Matt1]

Has anyone any experience in ceremonial magic? I have been studying hermetic Qabalah and its related Arts. The practical application of which seems to be the practice of theurgy or divine working which is normally expressed as ritual or ceremonial magic.

Having browsed the internet and looked at different forums i was a bit disappointed to find little genuine discussion beyond generalities.

In my understanding i sum up magick as the art of creating change in consciousness through will. To go into further detailed i could say it can also be considered tapping the unconscious mind by the conscious mind normally through the subconscious in a symbolic way.

I find interesting relations to the practice of pathworking on the Qabalah in terms of the creative visualization with the knowledge given by Ra with the Archetypes, as a possible practical exercise to become the archetypes at will.

The 22 pathways are related the tarot and astrology. Including numerous other correspondences. What are peoples view on this subject? I understand it to a rather difficult one to get into, having read a couple of books now on the subject and working through different material i can see it is one that will require great dedication. From my understanding i would say that the Qabalah is the foundation of all the western mystery tradition which as Dion Fortune put as the Yoga of the west.

[AnthroHeart]

What does hermetic mean? Does it come from Hermes? Is it his teachings?

[Unbound]

So what would you like to discuss? I am familiar with many aspects of ceremonial magic, is there a particular element you would like to open up?

My "view" on the subject is that magic is an applied philosophy and that almost every spiritual system in the world has some magical elements (even if it isn't included in their concepts, the principles are there). Aleister Crowley was the one who promulgamated the idea that magic is a change of consciousness at will, which is a definition I could probably agree with, as well as your own definition which fits well with the way Ra describes it as accessing the Unmanifest Being.

Magic, however, has been given many uses over the years. The work of Hermetic Kabalah and similar systems have the focus of self-transformation, of transcendence to become "more than human". Other systems of magic are focused more on relationships with the gods/spirits or manipulating the gods/spirits to achieve the will of the magician (Like Voodoo). Then there are healing systems of magic as well. Some claim that "true magic" is only the work of directly working with the etheric body. Others are more about communion with nature and aiding its forces. Pretty much all of them are rooted in some form of Shamanism, Priestcraft or Witchcraft.

My own definition of magic is a little different I think as I do see magic as a technique by which one can cause changes in consciousness at will, but I would take it a step further to say magic is actually a way of living with active consciousness. Consciousness is always changing, constantly, magic enables us to become aware of that constantly changing state and to begin to direct the flow of its changes. I don't think magic "causes" change, I think it merely allows us to direct the change that is already happening. Thus magic, to me, is a way of living consciously.

[Matt1]

Nicely put. Having thought about it, i will probably put the study off at the moment to focus on more current issues that i am working on. However i do intend to take up the study at one point. I have got the feeling that i am taking up to much catalyst.

[Unbound]

Aha It is an incredibly immense study, I am sure you could pick away at it your whole life and still have more to discover! That's one of the reason I enjoy studying it even if I am doing it only casually or on the off-hand. Always something new to find!

[Phoenix]

I have something to say.

One time when I was walking along the road I experienced different archetypes in astrology. Just the elements. Earth, air, fire and water. Then the signs. Sagitarrius, Aquarius etc. This was a fascinating experience for me in it's power.

[Ankh]

From my understanding i would say that the Qabalah is the foundation of all the western mystery tradition which as Dion Fortune put as the Yoga of the west.

Isn't all about studying Archetypes, i.e. the blueprint of the evolution of the mind, body and spirit complexes as set by our sub-logos, no matter what tools we use, i.e. so called tarot cards, astrology or Quabalah?

[Phoenix]

You can combine them all with the human design chart, and the I ching. You do have to decide on the polarity of the human design chart though. But the tarot is obviously the simpler fool = 25 taken out. Then 63/ 21= 3 I ching numbers per tarot. Which also gives you more input on the tarot. (You'll understand if you look at the chart.)

[native]

I've experienced enough high-strangeness to know it's nothing to just mess around with or take lightly, but I plan on studying it in the future. I performed some rituals to cleanse an apartment I moved into, and it seemed to open a door. I agree with Unbound on the idea that all spiritual systems are applying magic in some form, they just don't call it as such. For instance, visualization is a common theme you come across in all traditions.

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What does hermetic mean? Does it come from Hermes? Is it his teachings?

Yeah..Hermes Trismegistus.

[Peregrinus]

I employ the use of crystals, have practised ritual magic for about four years now, and have recently come together with two other wanderers who are eager to learn, thus I will be their mentor in this respect. In other respects, I expect they may teach me.

As for the specifics, I must apologize, this is not something I discuss openly.

[Plenum]

In my understanding i sum up magick as the art of creating change in consciousness through will. To go into further detailed i could say it can also be considered tapping the unconscious mind by the conscious mind normally through the subconscious in a symbolic way.

the essence of magic is understanding that there are visual patterns which generate the nature of the conscious mind.

Most people are not aware of the patterns (the images held together by an emotional strand) which sit in the subconscious and which drive our behaviour.

the archetypes, by their very nature, are represented visually to capture certain salient aspects. They are also given a naming, which is more important for the concept it ties into, rather than the actual word which is used (as we know, words can shift in meaning over historical periods).

magic involves two parts:

1) identifying the current visual patterns which are NOT in tune with the kind of person you would like to be, and consciously removing (ie balancing) those patterns

2) replacing those patterns (ie re-asserting) the new visual schema, and the associated emotional current - usually one aligned to love and greater acceptance

most people, when they practice magic, or try to reprogram their subconscious with tools like NLP or Law of Attraction or ritual only focus on the step 2), without realising that this creates incompatible and conflicting schema which alternate. They don't balance each other out automatically; they just find supportive conditions to express themselves, which is why the reprogramming is not 100% experienced.

[Matt1]

Yeah i guess i am working out the first step at the moment plenum, i feel i have made great progress lately and i am polishing off some of the lower triad issues at the moment hence why i have put it on hold to figure some of the basics out again that need retuned. I wonder about the possibility of starting a type of group ritual maybe through Skype or even just at an agreed time on chat as a distant group practice? I am not sure how i would feel about that but i think it might be a possible interesting experience.

[Plenum]

Yeah i guess i am working out the first step at the moment plenum, i feel i have made great progress lately and i am polishing off some of the lower triad issues at the moment hence why i have put it on hold to figure some of the basics out again that need retuned.

sometimes experience helps with that. Sometimes it doesn't.

With the lower triad, especially, sometimes we need the concrete lived event to make it real for us, and for the mind to analyze the feelings generated by the experience.

Sometimes we are able to process it all with the imagination, and that's great and awesome and very efficient.

I wonder about the possibility of starting a type of group ritual maybe through Skype or even just at an agreed time on chat as a distant group practice? I am not sure how i would feel about that but i think it might be a possible interesting experience.

time zones make it difficult to co-ordinate a lot of that stuff. I know that it can be very beneficial, though, to have a peer in your own country working on about the same level as oneself, and being able to compare notes and understandings on a weekly basis. It doesn't have to be in person, although catchups in person are great too; but it is excellent to have such a mirror.

as for the group ritual, what would the intent be?

[native]

I was reading that the hermetic tradition has historically been a vegetarian one. I'm sure the idea is to not be "of the flesh," but is anyone well-read enough to provide specific examples from hermetic literature laying out the philosophy behind such a decision? All I can find is C.W. Leadbeater's essay "Vegetarianism and Occultism", but that obviously isn't source material.

The Pythagoreans were also apparently vegetarians. "The Pythagorean diet came to mean an avoidance of the flesh of slaughtered animals. Pythagorean ethics first became a philosophical morality between 490-430 BC with a desire to create a universal and absolute law including injunctions not to kill "living creatures," to abstain from "harsh-sounding bloodshed," in particular animal sacrifice, and "never to eat meat.""  Up until the 19th century, you would have been known as a pythagorean if you followed such a diet. Then the word vegetarian came into being. Neat!

[Unbound]

I have actually never encountered that, although it is something I have wondered about myself. I will ask my GD buddy if he knows anything about it as he's more versed in Hermetic literature than I am. However, I wouldn't doubt it in the least if there is some of that in the tradition, although I imagine it probably depends on which "version" of Hermeticism we're talking about.

[native]

Cool thanks. I came across the idea on an alchemy forum here. It sounds like it's almost common knowledge. I just don't feel like signing up on the forum to ask hehe.

[Unbound]

Well, I asked my friend, and he's a "senior" member of the Golden Dawn, and his response was simple. "Not to my knowledge."

That's my thoughts too, I've never heard of that before (not that it couldn't be true) but I'd figure after the amount of Hermetic material I've read I would have encountered that thought at least once if it was "the norm". Maybe we are just uninformed! Aha

On that forum there they seem to relate it to being a Pythagorean, but Hermeticism, I think, pre-dates Pythagoras.

[native]

Really? That's peculiar. Thanks for the effort I appreciate it!

[Unbound]

Yeah, reading through that forum thread it doesn't seem anyone else has any source info to suggest this. The person who posted it said they got the idea because S. M. Mathers and his wife were both vegetarian and they were some of those who solidified the existence of the GD. That being said, it is interesting to note that Golden Dawn Hermeticism drawns from Lurianic Kabbalah and Rosicrucian principles. (Rosicrucians have no vegetarian requirements in their tenets.)

Now, what it COULD be drawn from perhaps is maybe Taoist alchemy or some kind of eastern Yogic alchemy which have particular diets in them. However, to be honest, I have found that in most cases where you find vegetarianism in 'western' traditions they have been siphoned from eastern practices and yoga, although of course there are examples like Pythagoras.

[native]

Hmm. That sounds reasonable. I'm sure in some cases it was intuited as well.

[Unbound]

Well by all means, I'm sure there are plenty of cases of people whom just feel more natural that way. I think that is true for pretty much any 'mystical' path.

[Matt1]

Yeah, reading through that forum thread it doesn't seem anyone else has any source info to suggest this. The person who posted it said they got the idea because S. M. Mathers and his wife were both vegetarian and they were some of those who solidified the existence of the GD. That being said, it is interesting to note that Golden Dawn Hermeticism drawns from Lurianic Kabbalah and Rosicrucian principles. (Rosicrucians have no vegetarian requirements in their tenets.)

Now, what it COULD be drawn from perhaps is maybe Taoist alchemy or some kind of eastern Yogic alchemy which have particular diets in them. However, to be honest, I have found that in most cases where you find vegetarianism in 'western' traditions they have been siphoned from eastern practices and yoga, although of course there are examples like Pythagoras.

I thought they used the Hermetic Qabalah from most of my research on them. The Lurianic Kabbalah is the glyph used mostly by Jewish Mystics?

[Unbound]

There are different groups and temples and some have different focuses than others, they all use Hermetic Qabalah, some go deeper in to Lurianic Kabalah. The way he put it to me is that these different systems are just different types of tools which have different functions. You use the tool for the function you need it for.

I like the way he put it is that the difference is one of sophistication. The analogy he made is that Hermetic Kabalah is like a bicycle, but Lurianic Kabalah is like the Space Station. Bicycles are still cool, but they cannot do as much as a space station. Yet, the space station also will never be as simple as the bicycle.

The difference between Lurianic and Hermetic Kabalah isn't the glyph per se, although there can be differences in the placement of the Hebrew letters to the paths. The only "different" glyph I have really encountered is the Hasidic Tree of Life which places Malkuth in Da'ath (and I think that is supposed to represent a tree that has realized 'salvation'). I believe the Hasidic jews do use Lurianic Kabalah.

He also told me that they use a Sabbatean version of Lurianic Kabbalah.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lurianic_Kabbalah
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabbateans

[Unbound]

A lot of temples base their teachings and information on the works of Israel Regardie as well. Some even only go up to Adeptus Minor which is the grade Regardie reached and wrote up to.

[Matt1]

A lot of temples base their teachings and information on the works of Israel Regardie as well. Some even only go up to Adeptus Minor which is the grade Regardie reached and wrote up to.

Yeah most people are working from the Golden Dawn material that was published by Regardie. I haven't seen many books on the Lurianic Kabbalah before. I think generally most socities don't believe its possible to reach the supernals as they are more akin to an astral or inner plane work, thus the entity wouldn't be 3rd density in the physical sense. However i believe its possible to reach Chesed or Adeptus Exemptus 7=4

[Matt1]

Out of interest Tanner, what does your Golden Dawn friend say about the linage? I have researched it and it all seems rather dubious to say the best. I don't think any order exists today that can trace itself directly back to the Golden Dawn but rather through groups of offshoots. Most orders seem to make the claim of coming in touch with secret Chiefs in Europe or even through the inner planes as giving them some type of authority as a H.O.G.D order and a Rosicrucian second order.

Even the founding of the original Golden Dawn is questionable from my limited research it seems highly likely it was an offshoot of early Rosicrucian Societies in Britain who in turn based there teachings from Earlier Societies such as the Golden and Rosy Cross in Germany. The story about the ciper documented is also a strange one with it being found on a bookshelf to being brought over by Mackenzie an member of the S.R.I.A from an count in Germany/Rosicrucian society.

If i am to be honest, i would have to say the original Golden Dawn was probably nothing more than a collection of occult information picked up over the ages and designed into a learning/teaching system that in itself became quite Credible. Using the resources of Rosicrucian and others of that time such as John Dee, with people like Eliphas Levi being precursor to the founding of the society.

[Unbound]

Well he says about as much as you do, it isn't clear or well-established what the exact origins are. It seems much of the modern material was 'pieced together' by Samuel Mathers and Co., but I think it's true that almost the entire system was constructed out of other materials and is really more of a system of syncretism than anything else. Most place the beginning of the order with Mathers, and then account the continuation of the lodges to Regardie whom was the first to unveil the secrets to the public.

I agree that I don't think there are any genuine groups that are directly descendant from even the Golden Dawn of Mathers and Co., the closest being those that came from Regardie's work. There are plenty of claims, but as such, in the eyes of my friend and others, they are just claims and have not been substantiated.

However, that being said, he does say GD is very tight-knit, they are a close group, often writing prefaces to eachother's books and such so it seems that there is a pretty well-established community at this point in time.

Oh, also, he said that GD was founded on Lurianic Kabbalah but over time it became less known as people were less informed. Apparently the particular temple he is part of their "specialty" is education and the most sophisticated teachings, unlike many others which only use Christian or Hermetic Kabbalah.

[Unbound]

Oh, he also says there are about 40 temples in the world and a handful of Orders. His order has 4 temples and 4 study groups.