Law of One Advanced Teachings and The Mind

[Namaste]

Moderator note: This discussion was originally part of the thread: The Harvest > 3D to 4D: Sudden or Gradual? A great read...(David Wilcock Interview) but was split since it went into a different direction.

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All that happens, even the 'bad', is valid, and part of All That Is. It provides catalyst and lessons. We are eternal souls, experiencing something 'bad', is often considered invaluable by the soul.

I was not so concerned with DW and his channeling, more so on highlighting your inclination to judge him and defend your opinions, which has been stated by Ra/Q'uo as an action stemming from blocked or imbalanced lower energy rays. These are issues you may want to consider meditating on and/or contemplating (frontal lobe exercises will develop connection to intelligent infinity).

Right now we're in third density, even as Wanderers. That means we are limited to, and effect by, the natural laws of this density. This includes the veil, who's purpose is to block/distort our innate wisdom. The lesson of third density is choosing to polarise towards love (STO) or fear (STS). We do this by making choices to the catalysts that are offered to us. Each time valuable lessons are to be learned, and we gain experience. Thats is the reason for this incarnation.

Upon graduating (using 4D+ as the context) we move to a density of unconditional love and compassion, the veil is lifted. So much love, in fact, we need to balance it with wisdom. Graduation to fifth density marks this balance of love and wisdom. Regaining this wisdom is the purpose of an entire density two octaves above this one.

Until I experience, or remember, 4th density (and higher) wisdom, I will not claim to have experienced it in third density, with a heavy veil over this incarnation. Let's not confuse intellect with wisdom (wisdom is gained from experience and actions, not reading).

loving and accepting does not mean letting go of wisdom, which is also a fundamental aspect of existence, and a prerequisite for any existence past 4d

That's exactly what we do, brother. When we incarnate in third density - the 'contract' of forgetfulness is honoured as to provide us with a catalyst-based learning experience in this density. The veil is in place. Wisdom is not the purpose/lesson of this density, do not trick yourself into thinking otherwise, as you are likely to miss the lessons that this density offers.

L&L

[unity100]

All that happens, even the 'bad', is valid, and part of All That Is. It provides catalyst and lessons. We are eternal souls, experiencing something 'bad', is often considered invaluable by the soul.

these are all practical from mid 6th density and on. they come to full realization from 7th density and on, when there is timelessness, and all the potential parallel existences of an entity and its complex merges to its unity around that point.

referring to a future point in time, to solve today's lessons, are totally irrelevant. they will not solve themselves in that fashion. everything is one, yes, at that point in future. everything will not be one in practice, until that point in future. the very thing that makes everything be one again, at that point in future, is the dance that happens in the densities where separation exists, one of which is particularly 3d.

your future, greater self can not stand in for your current self.

I was not so concerned with DW and his channeling, more so on highlighting your inclination to judge him and defend your opinions, which has been stated by Ra/Q'uo as an action stemming from blocked or imbalanced lower energy rays. These are issues you may want to consider meditating on and/or contemplating (frontal lobe exercises will develop connection to intelligent infinity).

before connecting to intelligent infinity in a meaningful, two-way connection that will facilitate direct learning, and co creation, one needs to have sufficient amount of balance in wisdom.

saying 'oh but everything is one' and trying to accept everything in the same pot, and trying to ignore the differences and accentuations of existence and methods and ways that exist in lower densities, therefore totally ignoring the existence of light, its spiritual corollary wisdom, and the blue ray will not connect anyone to infinite intelligence in any way, in the manner described above.

only thing one can do in such a situation would be to connect to it through opening lower 3 centers, and qualifying for harvest. it wouldnt bring any sustained, meaningful cocreating, or learning with infinite intelligence.

it is very unwise and unlearned to equate 'judging' with something that is bad, and defending an opinion, or a point of view, by blockage of lower energy centers, by the way.

ra consistently kept their opinion, choice of being of service throughout their contact. the Ra contact group kept their opinion, their choice, their mindset, at great cost and discomfort, up until the end of contact. they defended their contact and did every way to effect it up until very end. with your logic, they have serious lower energy center blockages.

if, you are trying to mean, 'judging someone and being steadfast of that judgment' as a blockage of lower energy centers, that would show the lack of wisdom in another sense. a person who has any blockage in lower 2 energy centers other than the first would be involved in augmenting for those blockages, and either doing self gratification and aggrandizement, inflation of self (which includes acting like a pop star by the way), or, the manifestation of desire of power over others.

identifying something that has been clearly defined, and exampled, and warned against by the very sources you refer to in your approaches, and warning against confusion and calling to wisdom does not constitute blockage of any center. its at most, a call of wisdom to entities of love, in vain.

by using the method of exaggeration, i would advise you to consider a hypotethical situation in which you were living in 1938, and someone had just said that adolf hitler was a very dangerous individual who can do very bad things. and despite all calls to loving without condition of adolf h itler, this individual had been steadfast in his/her identification. with your logic, this would be considered judgmental, having blockage of lower energy centers, and in lieu of Law of One. notice i used method of exaggeration. i didnt say dw is like hitler.

Right now we're in third density, even as Wanderers. That means we are limited to, and effect by, the natural laws of this density. This includes the veil, who's purpose is to block/distort our innate wisdom. The lesson of third density is choosing to polarise towards love (STO) or fear (STS). We do this by making choices to the catalysts that are offered to us. Each time valuable lessons are to be learned, and we gain experience. Thats is the reason for this incarnation.

first, right now we are in third/fourth density, AS wanderers. not 'even as' wanderers. nomatter what density we are in, we are still souls of higher density. if we forget this and force ourselves to act as a 3rd density entity, who is still trying to make choice, that would be phenomenonally wrong, in a spectrum that ranges from not being able to offer potential higher density service to learning others' lessons for them. (each action/thought has counterparts in time/space and space/time, therefore would reinforce anything).

second, veil's purpose is to block mind, the tool of wisdom, from subconscious. subconscious is NOT wisdom. subconscious is the female principle, it is the muse, the unknown, the mystic, the mystery. it is the unknown space. wisdom is light, the known, the one that moves, the male.

this is why blockage of subconscious from the active mind creates an environment which reinforces the need to use mind, therefore teaches wisdom, which will potentially help an entity in later 6d existence.

Upon graduating (using 4D+ as the context) we move to a density of unconditional love and compassion, the veil is lifted. So much love, in fact, we need to balance it with wisdom. Graduation to fifth density marks this balance of love and wisdom. Regaining this wisdom is the purpose of an entire density two octaves above this one.

so many wrong idenfitications here that they can mislead people.

love and compassion taken to extreme marks the graduation of 4d. not 3d. this can be seen from the example of 'Jehoshuah, which you call Jesus'. (as Ra puts it.). this entity was of late 4th density harvestable to 5th. instead he chose to incarnate again as a 4d wanderer, and manifested an extreme manifestation of love - he sacrificed himself in totality despite he had the means to evade it and continue service. then, he started 5th density work.

the wisdom comes with 5th density. this is the density of light. when sufficient wisdom is gained graduation to 6th density occurs. and in this density gained wisdom is again BALANCED with love this time.

i would like to note that, wrong identification/misconceptions of densities, energy rays, and their metaphysical qualities and aspects would make it impossible to understand anything regarding them, including any potential energy blockages of any individual or society, or any other healable issues. one needs to learn these, gain the wisdom and knowledge of these, before s/he can do anything or identify anything with these.

Until I experience, or remember, 4th density (and higher) wisdom, I will not claim to have experienced it in third density, with a heavy veil over this incarnation. Let's not confuse intellect with wisdom (wisdom is gained from experience and actions, not reading).

4th density is a density of love. not wisdom. you wont find 4th density wisdom. you can find 4th density love.

and as it appears clearly now, you are one of those who think that feelings, subconscious urges and musings, mysteries are 'wisdom'. you are confusing the feeling, the general tone, the frequency of certain densitites, with wisdom. and you create something called 'intellect' to separate it from that 'wisdom'.

no such thing exists.

intellect is the manifestation of mind complex. the mind part of mind/body/spirit, the part that knows, that acts, that is the matrix, that is the shape giver. that is the light.

understanding relations in between existing entitites IS wisdom. there is no separate 'intellect'.

the only thing that can be considered to be anything close to your misconception can be named as 'societal mind'. again, not intellect. it is also mind, however it is limited with the society.

however, even contemplating the concepts we are talking about here, requires one to be already free of most of the shackles of societal mind. there is no 'energy center' or 'Law of One' in societal mind or its experience. leave aside all these detailed information that were intended for usage with wisdom. ra's message is not a message of love. it is a message of 6th density, it includes wisdom AND love. ignoring one and worshipping another is a mistake that Ra warns again. but then again, ra may have been 'judgmental' when they warned against that, due to a blockage in a lower energy center. notice the reference and importance of example at this point.

That's exactly what we do, brother. When we incarnate in third density - the 'contract' of forgetfulness is honoured as to provide us with a catalyst-based learning experience in this density. The veil is in place. Wisdom is not the purpose/lesson of this density, do not trick yourself into thinking otherwise, as you are likely to miss the lessons that this density ffers.

there is no contract or promise of forgetfulness. there is a veil that separates mind and subconscious, male and female. it is a time/space phenomenon, a mechanical one. entities are expected to go through that veil and contact their subconscious. how they do it, is totally left to themselves.

wisdom is not the purpose of THIRD density indeed. and it should never have been put as a factor into this density. however, by putting in the veil, the logos of this locale have reinforced the mind, and pushed it far from the subconscious, therefore making this an abomination situation that can teach profound amounts of wisdom. which is precisely why quo says that one of th reasons Ra is coming back to this planet, to make up for profound amounts of love they still need to balance, lest they commit further 'naivete' in their own words.

and again,

a person who is discussing such innate concepts have no business making a choice. ra's information is intended for the advanced learner, adept, the seeker. NOT the third density native. on another sidenote, those souls would have no business regularing such a discussion forum, leave aside such books anyway - if they are still those who are making a choice, their life programs would take them to places that would offer those lessons with other selves. not places that advanced lessons and information are learned and discussed.

[Ali Quadir]

Let's not confuse intellect with wisdom (wisdom is gained from experience and actions, not reading).

Amen brother. The mind is a tricky thing. If we go looking for wisdom it gives us thoughts in the form of wisdom. If we go looking for happiness, it gives us thoughts in the form of happiness. If we go looking for truth it gives us thoughts in the form of truth.

And those among us who are mentally inclined have a tendency not to see the difference. I should know. It was a long hard road for me too.

Unity, is there a possibility that you're really not seeing something that other people here are seeing? Something that you've been told on numerous occasions, yet that you keep rejecting?

[solitary]

Unity, is there a possibility that you're really not seeing something that other people here are seeing? Something that you've been told on numerous occasions, yet that you keep rejecting?

And amen to you, Ali. If Unity could manifest a little more love and a little less negative verbiage, his words of wisdom might be a little more palatable and taken a little more seriously. He just seems so angry and anxious to ridicule others. It's a shame.

[haqiqu]

Unity, is there a possibility that you're really not seeing something that other people here are seeing? Something that you've been told on numerous occasions, yet that you keep rejecting?

And amen to you, Ali. If Unity could manifest a little more love and a little less negative verbiage, his words of wisdom might be a little more palatable and taken a little more seriously. He just seems so angry and anxious to ridicule others. It's a shame.

and quite a shame it is that Unity is attempting to turn this forum from it's purpose with his verbose run-on posts.

[unity100]

Unity, is there a possibility that you're really not seeing something that other people here are seeing? Something that you've been told on numerous occasions, yet that you keep rejecting?

no ; notice that how the people who are telling me what you speak of in numerous occasions are all people who have extensive amounts of love in their approaches. love, is not wisdom.

moreover, there is also the 'eastern wisdom' confusion issue. all the ancient tales of wisdom from ancient greece, and ancient east mystifies and abstracts wisdom as if something that was mystic itself. maybe probably due to some contempt to the western scholastic science establishment and all its affects that outcasts spiritualism in every respect, this confusion gets further accentuated and also gets accompanied by a disdain for intelligence, intellect, and their abstraction from wisdom in many contemporary spiritual seekers. despite they may have a point in disdaining the extreme hostility of western science towards spirituality, equating a tool, a manifestation of wisdom with that hostility and ousting it is very wrong.

moreover, if you examine the tales and teachings of ancient wisdom, it comes out that they are basically small excerpts, short tales that intend to teach the dance of life. behavior of entities, actions and consequences, causes and reactions. because wisdom, when employed to learn the dance of life, existence, becomes a very powerful tool that can explain or solve or identify complex looking, impossible and unintelligible looking chaotic behavioral patterns and social life, it further looks very 'mystic' to the observer.

however it is dead simple. wisdom is understanding of the dance. the dance can be how photons place themselves when subjected to a magnetic field, or it can be how an angry possessive spouse reacts to certain occurrences.

basically it is the understanding of 'placement of entities in respect to each other' in the most highest sense. placement of entities and the change of the placement in between them is the physical existence and the dance that occurs. not surprisingly they also have metaphysical counterparts in time/space. that is why, the physical existence can be used to learn time/space.

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And amen to you, Ali. If Unity could manifest a little more love and a little less negative verbiage, his words of wisdom might be a little more palatable and taken a little more seriously. He just seems so angry and anxious to ridicule others. It's a shame.

i would like to be given a list of the 'negative verbiage', and the lines reeking of 'anger' and 'ridiculing' others, in my posts. please do provide me such a list to enlighten me.

someone not putting an 'and i love you brother' phrase into every other post does not mean that that person does not have love.

[haqiqu]

Gayan 388 - Chala 67 – Faith reaches what reason fails to touch.

Faith is, in fact, a power operating all through our lives, and imparted to us from the time of our birth. This power is obscured as soon as reason is developed, which occurs during the process of acquiring the knowledge needed for merely maintaining life; and then one loses one's self-confidence as well as one's confidence in others. This is doubt, which is the greatest enemy of the soul in its progress towards self-realization. It is removed as soon as one perceives that faith is really a power from God, by which He seeks to express Himself through the individual.

Confidence is assured, not by blind belief but by careful insight into the life which surrounds us. The higher self is then able to be like the rider on a horse, and direct all the affairs and actions of the lower self. Faith defends the innate desire of the higher self, and the more faith develops, the greater is its influence, through us, upon our whole environment. Faith breeds faith. Also, faith must dominate the reason and direct the reason; and it will do this the more surely when we realize that every thought, desire, and impulse that comes to our heart is from God, to be accomplished for some great purpose of His own.

[Volume 7] IN AN EASTERN ROSE GARDEN – Faith



Breath Meditation

In breath: Guide us on the path

Out breath: of Thine Own Goodness

[unity100]

and quite a shame it is that Unity is attempting to turn this forum from it's purpose with his verbose run-on posts.

and what is the purpose of the forum, and what im i turning it to, please do enlighten me.

a forum for the discussion of Law of One, and the information given by its messenger, Ra. includes all the detailed information given in 4 books ?

am i mistaken in the identification of this purpose ?

[Namaste]

Upon graduating (using 4D+ as the context) we move to a density of unconditional love and compassion, the veil is lifted. So much love, in fact, we need to balance it with wisdom. Graduation to fifth density marks this balance of love and wisdom. Regaining this wisdom is the purpose of an entire density two octaves above this one.

so many wrong idenfitications here that they can mislead people.

love and compassion taken to extreme marks the graduation of 4d. not 3d. this can be seen from the example of 'Jehoshuah, which you call Jesus'. (as Ra puts it.). this entity was of late 4th density harvestable to 5th. instead he chose to incarnate again as a 4d wanderer, and manifested an extreme manifestation of love - he sacrificed himself in totality despite he had the means to evade it and continue service. then, he started 5th density work.

the wisdom comes with 5th density. this is the density of light. when sufficient wisdom is gained graduation to 6th density occurs. and in this density gained wisdom is again BALANCED with love this time.

It appears you have read my post in a manner not intended, perhaps it could have been phrased more clearly. We agree on the subject of densities and their lessons.

and as it appears clearly now, you are one of those who think that feelings, subconscious urges and musings, mysteries are 'wisdom'. you are confusing the feeling, the general tone, the frequency of certain densitites, with wisdom. and you create something called 'intellect' to separate it from that 'wisdom'.

Far from it, my brother, I think of wisdom as an innate knowingness, a revelation of truth that has occurred through experience. One cannot learn wisdom through reading. One gains (and acts upon) wisdom through experience.

I refer to 'intellect', as the physical mind, the logical/rational aspect of the ego construct we use to navigate and survive in these chemical vehicles. For example, the Masters degree I earned was of the intellectual type, useful only in particular contexts of 3D life. I do not consider it wisdom - a Masters degree does not make one wise. The same goes for the Ra material, I do not consider a scholar of it wise, as it is not from experience. However, speaking to an entity that had made a deep connection with intelligent infinity, and graduated from 3D to 4D, would have much wisdom to share.

L&L

[unity100]

Far from it, my brother, I think of wisdom as an innate knowingness, a revelation of truth that has occurred through experience. One cannot learn wisdom through reading. One gains (and acts upon) wisdom through experience.

then again what does experience do ? other than present cases and examples for the mind to work on ? so that the significator can understand the dance ?

if, you present an example as a teacher and name the case outright, wont the same student be able to use his/her mind to work on that example and still understand the dance ?

s/he can.

all that the student needs is sufficient sensitivity that s/he can process the catalyst/example.

I refer to 'intellect', as the physical mind, the logical/rational aspect of the ego construct we use to navigate and survive in these chemical vehicles. For example, the Masters degree I earned was of the intellectual type, useful only in particular contexts of 3D life. I do not consider it wisdom - a Masters degree does not make one wise. The same goes for the Ra material, I do not consider a scholar of it wise, as it is not from experience. However, speaking to an entity that had made a deep connection with intelligent infinity, and graduated from 3D to 4D, would have much wisdom to share.

that is my point in above posts. you, up until the end of your masters degree, have used your mind, the manifestation of your wisdom tool, for working on societal mind's needs and demands. basically, it was whatever technical branch of science the education was about. and, you have gained wisdom on that field.

had you spent all those years to exclusively concentrate on life, its beats and mechanics, its dance, you would have gained the particular wisdom type you speak of. you are doing it, since whenever you started doing it.

the difference in our opinions and approaches is, you separate what you have used to complete your masters from wisdom, referring to the later parts as wisdom. i do not do that. both were usage and learning of wisdom. but, in the master's case, the usage and employ of wisdom was limited to a certain subject.

I do not wish to get into a intellectual battle over who's perspective is right or wrong. We have both offered our opinions, perhaps now we can get back on topic and let others use our exchanged views as catalysts.

L&L

i disagree utterly. the reasons i disagree are below :

muses, inspiration dont come on demand. when they come, they need to be respected and their rewards used. a discussion may go off branch in many points, but the branches may manifest exceptionally important information and insight, uncalled for and unexpected. limiting may also hamper the flow of the energies that bring these gems.

secondly, we are actually not even off topic. the particular branch we are in now is important in regard to discernment of the truth in the muddy forest of veiled 3d experience through usage of wisdom. leaving aside the particular narrow subject of 3d to 4d sudden or gradual transition and the discernment of what text/channeling is most truthful, this actually is important in every aspect of our existence on this planet. actually on any kind of existence plane, now that i mention it.

the mods are already separating such branches that deserve their own threads from what i understand by the way. which is a very wise and productive practice.

[solitary]

however it is dead simple. wisdom is understanding of the dance. the dance can be how photons place themselves when subjected to a magnetic field, or it can be how an angry possessive spouse reacts to certain occurrences.

Ah, Unity, may you one day come to understand the dance.

[unity100]

Ah, Unity, may you one day come to understand the dance.

maybe if you quoted some negative verbiage you have been mentioning that were in my posts, i would come even closer to understanding it.

[Ali Quadir]

Unity, is there a possibility that you're really not seeing something that other people here are seeing? Something that you've been told on numerous occasions, yet that you keep rejecting?

no

Really? Are you claiming to be free from misinterpretations, the only source in the universe of the truth happens to be in your mind?

There are two words for this attitude, arrogance and foolishness.

moreover, there is also the 'eastern wisdom' confusion issue. all the ancient tales of wisdom from ancient greece, and ancient east mystifies and abstracts wisdom as if something that was mystic itself.

Not true actually. It's been very clearly discussed by the cultures you name and by a lot more. The fact that you consider it vague means you don't get it.

But I'm sure that's impossible.

maybe probably due to some contempt to the western scholastic science establishment and all its affects that outcasts spiritualism in every respect, this confusion gets further accentuated and also gets accompanied by a disdain for intelligence, intellect, and their abstraction from wisdom in many contemporary spiritual seekers. despite they may have a point in disdaining the extreme hostility of western science towards spirituality, equating a tool, a manifestation of wisdom with that hostility and ousting it is very wrong.

This is a major misrepresentation on your side. I won't go into it, experience proves there is no point.

Look up the words strawman fallacy.

however it is dead simple. wisdom is understanding of the dance. the dance can be how photons place themselves when subjected to a magnetic field, or it can be how an angry possessive spouse reacts to certain occurrences.

Wisdom to you seems understanding through ratio... Wisdom to me is understanding through all of the mechanisms of intelligence. Emotion, intellect, instinct, rationality, physical responses, genetic growth.

And amen to you, Ali. If Unity could manifest a little more love and a little less negative verbiage, his words of wisdom might be a little more palatable and taken a little more seriously. He just seems so angry and anxious to ridicule others. It's a shame.

i would like to be given a list of the 'negative verbiage', and the lines reeking of 'anger' and 'ridiculing' others, in my posts. please do provide me such a list to enlighten me.

So that we can go into another pointless argument?

There is no purpose to such a list. I recommend we do not go there. It will be a yes/no discussion with heightened emotions.

We'll leave it at how your words arrive with us. That is you do not listen. You are blind to things that are clear to us. You may assume now we're all a bunch of morons who don't understand your peaking intelligence. You'd be projecting your own preconceptions unto us.

The truth is WE heard it all before.

You seem to have come here to tell us how Ra thinks. You versus the world. Where is the unity? You call yourself unity, but the result of presence is disharmony. It seems to me you clearly WANT to learn about unity. You're saying it in a language you don't even believe exists...

But doing so at some point demands that you shut up and listen and stop assuming you already know everything.

I am sorry for being this rough on you. I have a feeling the world is doing the same.

[solitary]

Ah, Unity, may you one day come to understand the dance.

maybe if you quoted some negative verbiage you have been mentioning that were in my posts, i would come even closer to understanding it.

Bless you in your quest, Unity. If you want quotes regarding your negative verbiage, just go back and read any of your voluminous posts.

[haqiqu]

Unity, is there a possibility that you're really not seeing something that other people here are seeing? Something that you've been told on numerous occasions, yet that you keep rejecting?

no

Really? Are you claiming to be free from misinterpretations, the only source in the universe of the truth happens to be in your mind?

There are two words for this attitude, arrogance and foolishness.

moreover, there is also the 'eastern wisdom' confusion issue. all the ancient tales of wisdom from ancient greece, and ancient east mystifies and abstracts wisdom as if something that was mystic itself.

Not true actually. It's been very clearly discussed by the cultures you name and by a lot more. The fact that you consider it vague means you don't get it.

But I'm sure that's impossible.

maybe probably due to some contempt to the western scholastic science establishment and all its affects that outcasts spiritualism in every respect, this confusion gets further accentuated and also gets accompanied by a disdain for intelligence, intellect, and their abstraction from wisdom in many contemporary spiritual seekers. despite they may have a point in disdaining the extreme hostility of western science towards spirituality, equating a tool, a manifestation of wisdom with that hostility and ousting it is very wrong.

This is a major misrepresentation on your side. I won't go into it, experience proves there is no point.

Look up the words strawman fallacy.

however it is dead simple. wisdom is understanding of the dance. the dance can be how photons place themselves when subjected to a magnetic field, or it can be how an angry possessive spouse reacts to certain occurrences.

Wisdom to you seems understanding through ratio... Wisdom to me is understanding through all of the mechanisms of intelligence. Emotion, intellect, instinct, rationality, physical responses, genetic growth.

And amen to you, Ali. If Unity could manifest a little more love and a little less negative verbiage, his words of wisdom might be a little more palatable and taken a little more seriously. He just seems so angry and anxious to ridicule others. It's a shame.

i would like to be given a list of the 'negative verbiage', and the lines reeking of 'anger' and 'ridiculing' others, in my posts. please do provide me such a list to enlighten me.

So that we can go into another pointless argument?

There is no purpose to such a list. I recommend we do not go there. It will be a yes/no discussion with heightened emotions.

We'll leave it at how your words arrive with us. That is you do not listen. You are blind to things that are clear to us. You may assume now we're all a bunch of morons who don't understand your peaking intelligence. You'd be projecting your own preconceptions unto us.

The truth is WE heard it all before.

You seem to have come here to tell us how Ra thinks. You versus the world. Where is the unity? You call yourself unity, but the result of presence is disharmony. It seems to me you clearly WANT to learn about unity. You're saying it in a language you don't even believe exists...

But doing so at some point demands that you shut up and listen and stop assuming you already know everything.

I am sorry for being this rough on you. I have a feeling the world is doing the same.

Thanks, Ali, and amen and amen and amen again.

[unity100]

Really? Are you claiming to be free from misinterpretations, the only source in the universe of the truth happens to be in your mind?

There are two words for this attitude, arrogance and foolishness.

what is the meaning of this block even ?

you have asked a question, i answered no, i was not wrong in this matter, and i cited the reason.

i have gone through your post, and found it quite negative, despite accusing me of negativity itself. i will cease replying to you in this discussion too, as i have done in the last thread you have talked like this before.

Not true actually. It's been very clearly discussed by the cultures you name and by a lot more. The fact that you consider it vague means you don't get it.

But I'm sure that's impossible.

This is a major misrepresentation on your side. I won't go into it, experience proves there is no point.

Look up the words strawman fallacy.

you didnt provide any arguments causes or reasons. you talked round and shot broad. then you talk about strawmen. contradiction.

Wisdom to you seems understanding through ratio... Wisdom to me is understanding through all of the mechanisms of intelligence. Emotion, intellect, instinct, rationality, physical responses, genetic growth.

i didnt say the first, or actually posted anything that can be so grandly summarized as the first sentence at all. whereas in contrast, you have been totally refusing and even despising mind, and its usage, whereas now you have changed your approach to using intelligence for understanding everything, by employing all its mechanics. that is not only great progress but what i was trying to advocate up till this very point. therefore, i am satisfied.

So that we can go into another pointless argument?

There is no purpose to such a list. I recommend we do not go there. It will be a yes/no discussion with heightened emotions.

We'll leave it at how your words arrive with us. That is you do not listen. You are blind to things that are clear to us. You may assume now we're all a bunch of morons who don't understand your peaking intelligence. You'd be projecting your own preconceptions unto us.

The truth is WE heard it all before.

i dont see any emotions on my side, however, if you go over your post again and see how you made grand conclusions from a single word 'no', and the following emotion you conveyed over that single word, you will see a lot on the other side.

this is one of the reasons i will stop replying to you again.

You seem to have come here to tell us how Ra thinks. You versus the world. Where is the unity? You call yourself unity, but the result of presence is disharmony. It seems to me you clearly WANT to learn about unity. You're saying it in a language you don't even believe exists...

But doing so at some point demands that you shut up and listen and stop assuming you already know everything.

im not telling how Ra thinks. i am telling what Ra said, and in all occasions i did as such, i have given links to lawofone info, the great searchable repository, ir provided the direct quotes themselves.

there are only a few i didnt directly quote, but, these are the ones which i think everyone who studied these books will remember easily by their memory, not needing any link or requote.

But doing so at some point demands that you shut up and listen and stop assuming you already know everything.

I am sorry for being this rough on you. I have a feeling the world is doing the same.

ironically you were talking about love.

and on the 'knowing everything' note, its simple :

im not talking about football, or advanced cyclotron mechanics. im not talking about events to happen in 2 octaves higher than this either.

i am talking about certain identifiable issues, which have been given to us as open, clear, direct information by various reliable sources. and, in all cases i have talked on these, i have given their direct quotes or links, from Ra, or quo. or any other source i have talked about. i did not speak out of my arse, as the oldtimers say. what i said, were not my conceit. if you have a problem with those, im not the person to take up these with. the quotes are given, you go and confront the sources.

as i said, i wont be replying to you again in this matter. it is curious that you have decided to ignore me last time you did this, but apparently you didnt do so. maybe, you should do as such. have a nice day.

---

Thanks, Ali, and amen and amen and amen again.

let me clear one thing :

you have accused me of negative emotions, aggressivenes, arrogance and and lack of love and whatnot, yet, you are not only approving, but thanking, saying 'amen' multiple times to a person who used extensive personal attacks, and admittedly negative language and approach on another individual ? and there is even a heart in your post ? what kind of love is that ?

[Ali Quadir]

Bottom line Unity.. You're looking into a mirror. Even to the point where you're projecting all kinds of motives unto other people. In spite of what you may feel I don' t hate you, I never attacked you. I see you as someone who doesn't have a clue about who I am. So this isn't personal to me. You're shadow boxing.

If any of this seems a re-run from another time in your life. Think about why that is. Once you do so. You will discover the whole shebang the rest of us is talking about...

In the mean time let me make it clear that your interpretation of Ra is your interpretation of Ra. You seem well educated but that does not make you right. Quite often your accuracy is debatable. I'm sure that goes for all of us. And because of this the modus operandi on bring4th has always been that we each see things differently and this is all right. We are all on our own level no one has a monopoly. And there is a wisdom to that.

But you do not even perceive the slightest remotest possibility of being wrong. Certainty is a quality. But inflated out of proportions it just leads to disaster upon disaster. How has your success rate been so far? Would you like it to be better?

And again no one here is your enemy. Not even me. All of them are still trying to talk to you. It's clear you've got the brains. You're smart, you can easily work this out. But seriously you got some blockages.

If you insist on seeing this message as another attack from the muslim extremist or whatever you decided to view me as. Be my guest. I hope it makes you happy, though I doubt it will.

[unity100]

As i have noted before, i am not going to reply to you in this topic. have a nice day.

[Monica]

loving and accepting does not mean letting go of wisdom, which is also a fundamental aspect of existence, and a prerequisite for any existence past 4d.

Good point!

---

loving and accepting does not mean letting go of wisdom, which is also a fundamental aspect of existence, and a prerequisite for any existence past 4d

That's exactly what we do, brother. When we incarnate in third density - the 'contract' of forgetfulness is honoured as to provide us with a catalyst-based learning experience in this density. The veil is in place. Wisdom is not the purpose/lesson of this density, do not trick yourself into thinking otherwise, as you are likely to miss the lessons that this density offers.

How do we know that Wanderers aren't learning 5D lessons while on their mission to be of service in 3D? How can we assume that Wanderers are limited to exactly the same types of lessons as 3D entities?

If Wanderers volunteered to raise the vibration of 3D Earth, how could they do that if they totally discarded everything they've learned in the higher densities? If they did that, wouldn't they just be like everyone else and therefore accomplish nothing?

Interestingly, I've heard David Wilcock himself state that Wanderers may be learning 5D lessons while here in 3D.

---

Folks, I'm trying to be objective here, but I'm detecting a lot more judgement directed towards unity than the other way around.

I personally have been enjoying his posts and have found them very thought-provoking. We don't all like everyone else's opinions or even personalities, but that is no reason to directly confront another member. I ask everyone again to please remember that we all have personalities, and please not let a perceived tone or personality we might find not to our liking, get in the way of understanding and appreciating the thoughts and opinions of the other-self.

I think it's also important to make a distinction between dispassionately assessing the work of a famous person, and offering reasons for agreeing or disagreeing with the validity of that work, vs directly confronting another forum member with unsolicited analyses of perceived personality flaws.

If personal attacks continue, this thread will be locked.

[Pablísimo]

Peace, brothers.

Such discord among such loving beings saddens me. Surely we can disagree more harmoniously?

...One free joke goes to the first person who posts one of these:

http://www.regoldenproduce.com/images/ol...branch.jpg

Collect via PM or Public Post, at peacemaker's option.

Love to all

We do, though, refrain from harsh or judgmental words about anyone here on this forum. This is a place of love and light, a place like no other on the interweb.

P.S. Right on, P.

[unity100]

How do we know that Wanderers aren't learning 5D lessons while on their mission to be of service in 3D? How can we assume that Wanderers are limited to exactly the same types of lessons as 3D entities?

If Wanderers volunteered to raise the vibration of 3D Earth, how could they do that if they totally discarded everything they've learned in the higher densities? If they did that, wouldn't they just be like everyone else and therefore accomplish nothing?

Interestingly, I've heard David Wilcock himself state that Wanderers may be learning 5D lessons while here in 3D.

---

precisely what im trying to say and warn against. most of the wanderers here, as Ra have said it, are of 6d. not even 5d. if, these entities forget these and act like 3d or 4d entities, and not work in higher frequencies, how will the vibrations of earth can be aided ? and even what's the point ? remake the choice ? or make a choice for others ? both cant happen.

i believe, depending on their circumstances, all entities who can do it, should raise their frequency and open their higher chakras as much as they can. and, not only in meditations too, they should do it in their daily life, as much as their daily life allows.

Folks, I'm trying to be objective here, but I'm detecting a lot more judgement directed towards unity than the other way around.

i have no problem with anyone judging me. however i cant work with or talk with people who get extremely aggravated when someone does not submit to their views or beliefs, or pulls out various accusations and judgments without providing any logical argument, reasoning or explanation with it. these end up being just empty words, opinions.

there is inane amount of information in regard to energy centers, their metaphysical meanings and effects and their nature and related work in Ra. the very least one can do is to try to analyze the situation of the person that s/he is trying to judge with that knowledge, and see if his/her judgment actually holds, and if does, bring that judgment to the table. if the identification and model is correct, that can even be a great service to the individual. and its only natural to do that, since this forum is actually relevant to the information that was brought by Ra, and their information and teaching has these in it. if one cant do that, the least they could do is to at least provide reasons or logical arguments.

yet they dont do that too. they start up with accusations of negativity, arrogance and whatnot when and if someone expresses contrasting opinion to their beliefs, not even realizing that noone needs to concede to one's opinion or agree with him/her in order to be positive.

[Namaste]

How do we know that Wanderers aren't learning 5D lessons while on their mission to be of service in 3D? How can we assume that Wanderers are limited to exactly the same types of lessons as 3D entities?

Our higher selves (6D) are learning lessons through this 3D incarnation, and potentially 4D and 5D density entities. There is an idea that we have multiple simultaneous incarnations in these different densities, all learning different lessons in their own manner. This would make sense (including all of our past and future incarnations), considering there is really no such thing as linear time. All of it happens in the eternal now. I cannot wait for the lifting of the veil :¬)

If Wanderers volunteered to raise the vibration of 3D Earth, how could they do that if they totally discarded everything they've learned in the higher densities? If they did that, wouldn't they just be like everyone else and therefore accomplish nothing?

This is exactly so and has been stated by Ra. That is the great risk of incarnating in 3D - some may get lost and never remember, or awaken to, their chosen role.

precisely what im trying to say and warn against. most of the wanderers here, as Ra have said it, are of 6d. not even 5d. if, these entities forget these and act like 3d or 4d entities, and not work in higher frequencies, how will the vibrations of earth can be aided ? and even what's the point ? remake the choice ? or make a choice for others ? both cant happen.

There is a key assumption in this statement that we, as 3D incarnations, are supposed to be aware of higher density learning. In my personal - and subjective - truth, this is happening on it's own accord, and is not something the 3D incarnation should be concerned about. Our thoughts and efforts should be given to living with love and peace, and of being of service to others. That is how we aid the vibrations of Earth, and the progression to fourth density.

Without people - especially Wanderers, as thats our purpose - living with love and peace, the vibrations of the Earth will change to fourth density in a much 'rougher' manner. Not only that, no one would be harvestable. The Great Cycle would fail and yield nothing. It seems you may be missing the point of this density - to choose; love or fear. Once that choice is made, you continue to make decisions as best you can to support, and build upon, that choice. That is why we're here, that's all we need be concerned about.

Love is the key to progression, the driving force, the élan vital. Re-read the quotes from Q'uo in my previous post to confirm this.

If one is to concern themselves with higher density learning, which we cannot possibly comprehend with our limited third density minds, one may miss the point, and lessons, of third density. This could potentially result in another cycle of third density incarnations, until they are learned and accepted.

Ra specifically stated that the role of the Wanderer is to bring light and love to third density, there was no mention of being aware of higher density lessons. That is the entire point of graduating through densities, one at a time. If we were able to learn higher density lessons in 3D, there would be no need for different densities.

If one manages to connect to intelligent infinity, this may be possible, but is not a goal of this density.

[unity100]

Our higher selves (6D) are learning lessons through this 3D incarnation, and potentially 4D and 5D density entities. There is an idea that we have multiple simultaneous incarnations in these different densities, all learning different lessons in their own manner. This would make sense (including all of our past and future incarnations), considering there is really no such thing as linear time. All of it happens in the eternal now. I cannot wait for the lifting of the veil :¬)

entities that are from higher densities than 3 do not have higher selves. instead, the totality of their societal complex that they were a member of before coming here, acts as a higher self. at least this was what Ra said.

again on the point of there being no linear time - there is linear time in lower densities. time becomes less and less a factor towards the late 7th density. if there wasnt linear time, separation and similar concepts, there would be no physical existence, and there would be no learning/manifesting work done in that physical existence.

There is a key assumption in your statement that we, as 3D incarnations are supposed to be aware of higher density learning. In my personal - and subjective - truth, this is happening on it's own accord, and is not something the 3D incarnation should be concerned about. Our thoughts and efforts should be given to living with love and peace, and of being to service to others. That is how we aid the vibrations of Earth, and the progression to fourth density.

let me put it bluntly - if, you are, as of today, writing and discussing in a forum that is dedicated to Ra material, which is explicitly stated to be for the advanced, conscious seekers, and containing phenomenonal amounts of higher density information and learning, then it means, leave aside 'supposing' it, you were looking for that information, and you have found it. it is contradictory to have wandered about for such information, get it, read it, learn it, start discussing it and then say 'we are not supposed to'. it already has happened. you are here, you are doing it. according to law of responsibility, you should not step back and ignore what you have learned, and instead use it.

Without people - especially Wanderers, as thats our purpose - living with love and peace, the vibrations of the Earth will change to fourth density in a much 'rougher' manner. Not only that, no one would be harvestable.

The Great Cycle would fail and yield nothing. It seems you may be missing the point of this density - to choose; love or fear. One that choice is made, you continue to make decisions as best you can to support, and build upon, that choice. That is why we're here, that's all we need be concerned about.

each wanderer's own purpose is their own. its impossible to discern the purpose of each. most are already functioning in innumerable locations without ever wondering about things like Ra material or similar.

however, the stated side purpose, which they are also here to effect, is to lighten the planetary vibrations. for this to happen, they need to go to the highest vibration they can. not get stuck up on love vibration. the green ray, love energies are already coming through the earth, because of the increasing vibration, and it is as Ra said 'like the ticking of a clock'.

the problem on this world is, the difficult harvest being caused due to the extensive orange consciousness of the societal complex. ra said that this was causing heat that could not be used, and causing various earth crust movements.

and also, it is important to note that orange ray manifesting in 3d or higher in this fashion is possessive, like an overgrown child being possessive of the love of his/her mother. and if we add to that the fact that Ra notes that the 4d entity is ineffective against energy blockages or various other difficulties of entities, and prone to making wrong choices and getting possessed in relationships, that makes it even more important for all wanderers to raise their vibrations as much as they can, so that the planetary entanglements can be solved by the higher frequency energies.

Love is the key to progression, the driving force, the élan vital. Re-read the quotes from Q'uo in my previous post to confirm this.

i am again referring you to Ra in this, where they warned against mistaking love, green ray as the creator and worshipping it as if it was the creator itself, instead of a facet of existence.

moreover, what you mention there ignores all the other facets of existence. the very first being the red ray, the first, energy of movement and change. that being the equivalent of this octave's white, from the earlier octave. without it, nothing can happen, including love.

so with that approach one could easily say that movement and change is the key to progression, the driving force, the elan vital. because if it isnt there, nothing will be there.

If one is to concern themselves with higher density learning, which we cannot possibly comprehend with our limited third density minds, one may miss the point, and lessons, of third density. This could potentially result in another cycle of third density incarnations, until they are learned and accepted.

so then, why are you actually in the forum of a material that has that advanced higher density information ? all that wisdom stuff, working with chakras, detailed healing, meditation, and even the study of archetypal mind of this local logos ? the Ra material ?

if we cannot possibly comprehend with our limited third density minds, why did the Ra group have gone through all that effort to channel that information. and, leave that aside, why did Ra prepare such information and searched for such a group to convey that kind of advanced information in the first place ? was Ra naive to convey that information ?

huh ? isnt there a contradiction ?

you are talking as if all 4 books and all the information conveyed in them were 'love each other', 'make a choice'. it isnt. there is insane amounts of advanced teachings and information.

Ra specifically stated that the role of the Wanderer is to bring light and love to third density, there was no mention of being aware of higher density lessons. That is the entire point of graduating through densities, one at a time. If we were able to learn higher density lessons in 3D, there would be no need for different densities.

excuse me but you are again in confusion again. 'light and love' includes light, which means wisdom, which is the 3rd distortion, which includes all the advanced high density information that has been conveyed in the Ra material.

If one manages to connect to intelligent infinity, this may be possible, but is not a goal of this density.

first of all, this planet is not third density since 1937. at least, this is what Ra said. the green vibrations started then, and the entities who were activated for dual 3d/4d work started incarnating.

second, the goal of 3d entities is to advance in understanding of the fact that 'there are others than me, and im a separate entity', and then make a choice towards the end of 3d.

it is not the goal of any wanderer or higher density entity. they are, not of 3d. they cannot remake a choice.

thirdly, as long as a wanderer limits and forces himself/herself to behave like a 3d entity trying to make a choice in 3d, or an entity which forces itself to act as a 4d entity, s/he will not be able to contact intelligent infinity in a meaningful fashion for continued work.

at this point i would again like to remind that circa 1980, there were 65+ million wanderers incarnated on earth, almost all of which were from 6d, a few percentage being from 4d and other densities. ra also said that this was a recent trend. trend means, it continued, therefore we can expect the numbers be higher.

this again reduces the chances of entities not being of 6d, who are seeking the kind of information Ra offers.

and as a final note, it is contradictory to engage in discussions in a forum that is dedicated to the study of advanced information, and then to say 'these are not for our minds'. it is there. you studied it. it becomes a contradiction.

[Aaron]

The same Q'uo that said(from Namaste's post):
"For wisdom uninformed by love is not stable or balanced, in terms of that lesson which entities such as yourself incarnated in order to balance."
also said:
"The play of intellect as it flashes is a thing greatly to value. And it is good to play with that part of yourself that analyzes and uses logic and compares things to other things. It would be unusual indeed to consider that the Creator offered you this intellect and then to tell you that it is not worthy."
(http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/is..._0227.aspx)
(This session is very particular to the situation we find ourselves in here, and would be very useful reading for all involved.)

So you see, there is a middle ground here. Is it possible that neither party is wrong in this conflict? Both 'sides' of this situation of Creator vs Creator contain rightness.

The lessons of love are ramping up as we approach the conversion point. There is no place or time in our lives where we are "safe" from catalyst. That includes this forum! At first I was awestruck that minds so fascinated with the discovery and application of higher consciousness could act in such a selfish and judgmental manner as I've seen in this thread. But then I remembered that we're only human. Both here, and in my day to day life, catalyst has arisen that has made everyone aware of eachother's bad sides so to speak. This is tough, but absolutely necessary to work through if farther polarization is desired. We will get to know eachother in such a more meaningful way once we can embrace every part of eachother, even those parts which cause us trouble. It's a blessing to have situations such as this arise!

To those of you that are put off by your interpretation of Unity's attitude: I was also in that situation. Then, I put some deeper thought to it and realized: The blending of heart and mind can only be done once you've broken out of the "normal" negative way of thinking in our society and started to grasp the heart's way of thinking. That waking up and starting to become aware of your own thoughts is fundamental. And once you've become aware of the thoughts of the heart and embraced and become familiar with love, and you have sufficiently grounded yourself in love, then why wouldn't you want to take hold of the force and structure of higher wisdom in order to drive home that brilliant and pristine message of love to your brothers and sisters?

The person behind the post is a human being who has thoughts and breath and a heartbeat just like you. You can't know who they are by their words here. I encourage everyone to try to see that. Perhaps we can see what wisdom Unity has to offer those who wish to know love. And perhaps Unity can, in offering his/her message of wisdom, balance that wisdom with the love he/she receives from those who think from their heart centers. There is so much positive potential here, my fellow souls.

[Namaste]

again on the point of there being no linear time - there is linear time in lower densities. time becomes less and less a factor towards the late 7th density. if there wasnt linear time, separation and similar concepts, there would be no physical existence, and there would be no learning/manifesting work done in that physical existence.

As far as I am aware, fourth density and onwards is of time/space, and hence time is not linear in fashion. As we progress we will experience the 'now', as that is all there is, but the past and the future will become less apparent, until we are fully in the moment. Again, this is my personal viewpoint.

let me put it bluntly - if, you are, as of today, writing and discussing in a forum that is dedicated to Ra material, which is explicitly stated to be for the advanced, conscious seekers, and containing phenomenonal amounts of higher density information and learning, then it means, leave aside 'supposing' it, you were looking for that information, and you have found it. it is contradictory to have wandered about for such information, get it, read it, learn it, start discussing it and then say 'we are not supposed to'. it already has happened. you are here, you are doing it. according to law of responsibility, you should not step back and ignore what you have learned, and instead use it.

It is evident we consider higher density teachings different things. I am referring to the lessons and experiences, while you are referring to specific information regarding the structure; it's description. I believe that we are understanding the higher densities in the context of a third density mind, and hence, extremely limited. Ra has mentioned that it's 'near impossible' to describe the higher densities in our language, and hence uses easily understood ideas.

each wanderer's own purpose is their own. its impossible to discern the purpose of each. most are already functioning in innumerable locations without ever wondering about things like Ra material or similar.

however, the stated side purpose, which they are also here to effect, is to lighten the planetary vibrations. for this to happen, they need to go to the highest vibration they can. not get stuck up on love vibration. the green ray, love energies are already coming through the earth, because of the increasing vibration, and it is as Ra said 'like the ticking of a clock'.

Agreed, Wanderers may indeed have a special purpose. I do recall a quote stating that living in love and peace was general to all Wanderers. I will try and find it.

The green ray energies are coming through yes, and have been for decades. It is the individual's task to open up and prepare for these energies. Just because the Earth has them, does not mean the individual does. There is a quote from Hatonn/Latwii (The Brown Notebook) which states that it is up to us to evolve, and to match the frequency of the Earth (4D - green) if we wish to remain with her.

i am again referring you to Ra in this, where they warned against mistaking love, green ray as the creator and worshipping it as if it was the creator itself, instead of a facet of existence.

I do not think anyone here is doing so, brother. Choosing love is the reason of this density, and those choices are supported by all aspects of one's consciousness centers/rays.

moreover, what you mention there ignores all the other facets of existence. the very first being the red ray, the first, energy of movement and change. that being the equivalent of this octave's white, from the earlier octave. without it, nothing can happen, including love.

Which is why the balancing of the lower rays is implicit in nature. One cannot make efforts to balance themselves in which to be harvestable if ignoring these issues. When one's ray is blocked, for example the yellow ray (dealing with other selves), energy cannot flow up to the heart/green ray, which is entirely necessary for fourth density graduation, as this gives the person added compassion, acceptance and understanding. This is why I originally pointed out a personality trait of yourself to defend your opinion with, what appears to be, frustration. It was done out of love, not judgment.

so then, why are you actually in the forum of a material that has that advanced higher density information ? all that wisdom stuff, working with chakras, detailed healing, meditation, and even the study of archetypal mind of this local logos ? the Ra material ?

if we cannot possibly comprehend with our limited third density minds, why did the Ra group have gone through all that effort to channel that information. and, leave that aside, why did Ra prepare such information and searched for such a group to convey that kind of advanced information in the first place ? was Ra naive to convey that information ?

huh ? isnt there a contradiction ?

Again my brother, we have different perspectives on higher density information. Yours is information learned from the Ra Material, understood with a third density personality. Mine is wisdom, which comes only from experience of the said densities. From my perspective, if wisdom can be learned in this density, then it is wisdom meant for this density. It all depends on how one perceives, and labels, the knowledge. Again, this is personal, and there is no right or wrong.

thirdly, as long as a wanderer limits and forces himself/herself to behave like a 3d entity trying to make a choice in 3d, or an entity which forces itself to act as a 4d entity, s/he will not be able to contact intelligent infinity in a meaningful fashion for continued work.

at this point i would again like to remind that circa 1980, there were 65+ million wanderers incarnated on earth, almost all of which were from 6d, a few percentage being from 4d and other densities. ra also said that this was a recent trend. trend means, it continued, therefore we can expect the numbers be higher.

Thank you. I would like to remind you that they we came here to help this planet - and specifically others - progress from third to fourth density.

excuse me but you are again in confusion again. 'light and love' includes light, which means wisdom, which is the 3rd distortion, which includes all the advanced high density information that has been conveyed in the Ra material.

and as a final note, it is contradictory to engage in discussions in a forum that is dedicated to the study of advanced information, and then to say 'these are not for our minds'. it is there. you studied it. it becomes a contradiction.

My brother, this will be my last comment in this thread of thinking, as we're covering repeated ground. Our views of what higher density information is is different.

Yours is intellectual understanding in context of a third density brain, mine is experience gained (wisdom) from experience in that density (and the ones below). One cannot gain wisdom in a density they are not focused upon.

Once the veil is lifted, we all may be gifted our full memories back, and hence the wisdom we have gained from 1D to 6D. Until then, it's an intellectual understanding by a limited 3D mind.

1ST DENSITY: The cycle of awareness
2ND DENSITY: Growth
3RD DENSITY: Self-awareness
4TH DENSITY: Love or understanding
5TH DENSITY: Light or wisdom (RA: We spent much time/space in 5th density balancing the intense compassion we had gained in 4th density)
6TH DENSITY: Light/love, love/light or unity (also frequently referred to as compassionate wisdom)
7TH DENSITY: The gateway cycle

We're moving from 3D to 4D, if one only tries to gain 5D and higher information, the reasons of this density incarnation may be missed. This is particularly important as we are here to help others. We can help others by helping them to open their hearts.

I feel there is no more to add from my perspective, I have attempted to explain my personal understanding to you via different routes, and appreciate your efforts in which to expand my own my own views. A great catalyst for learning.

Peace to you brother, I hope you find what you are looking for.

[unity100]

(warning - long post, read at your own risk)

To those of you that are put off by your interpretation of Unity's attitude: I was also in that situation. Then, I put some deeper thought to it and realized: The blending of heart and mind can only be done once you've broken out of the "normal" negative way of thinking in our society and started to grasp the heart's way of thinking.

there is no 'attitude' here - lets do a small experiment - pick any 4-5 consecutive questions and answers from the sessions from any point in Ra material, and take out the word 'love' from all of them - that is, if it actually is present there. you will see that the offstandish and intellectual manner of my speaking and the manner of speaking that you will see in the q/as you have abstracted resemble each other. the difference is, repetition and declaration of word love, every now and then, when the subject comes up in relevance, and in the closing goodbyes of sessions. to the extent that when i first read Ra material after going through silver birches, numerous bartholomews, and so on, i found it very stern sounding and devoid of love back in 1995. however i dont see anyone reacting the same to the content and language of Ra material. despite it is having similar speech, and having extensive amounts of wisdom material in it. contradictory.

and, four things ;

- intellectual does NOT mean 'negative'. wisdom is NOT negative.

- you dont have to blurt out feelings of love and make declarations of love, to love.

- if i actually talk like i normally do, i become VERY persuasive. persuasion is sometimes as infringing as an intervention. the stand offish attitude and presentation of logical and sideless arguments are of utmost necessity for avoiding infringements.

- in an environment of love, noone offering words of wisdom in any way would be met and get subjected to such negativity and aggressive treatment. love goes to the extent of even accepting and embracing the outright self serving. which is actually wrong, but it does. yet, some people who are supposedly talking in the name of love, are unable to accept even someone that is offering wisdom with an open heart, and get aggravated and insulting despite the party in front of them never resorts to anything other than logical arguments. which tells volumes.

Perhaps we can see what wisdom Unity has to offer those who wish to know love. And perhaps Unity can, in offering his/her message of wisdom, balance that wisdom with the love he/she receives from those who think from their heart centers. There is so much positive potential here, my fellow souls.

my message is not that of wisdom. what i actually would like to discuss and concentrate on is, unfortunately, far above the scope of the discussions we have had in this forum so far. i have not been able to find anyone to do such kind of exchange yet. the only thing that has happened was me feeling the urge to caution wisdom to some people who are going 'loving' extensively to the point of choosing to ignore any kind of wisdom. it is so disturbing to see people bash their heads against the walls, unknowing, with blunt tools in their hands, instead of sharp ones. the word loving is in quotes, since its not applicable here. some of their behavior has been anything other than loving, and accepting. notice the word 'some' too, not all.

however ironically, i actually know that one can not even start to tell about wisdom to entities who are of love vibration. i had enough of that experience in the past. but, there are many people who are reading the forums, but not participating. it is important to voice some important points in that respect, lest those who are able, but yet newly initiated, may err in their path.

and the various issues the discussion here are giving opportunity to the voicing of important points. all the service here is probably going to some people who are reading, but not responding.

one great benefit though - while discussing these and responding, i have realized that i was aware of many stuff that i didnt know i was aware of. typing things into words or telling others, makes a lot of difference.

As far as I am aware, fourth density and onwards is of time/space, and hence time is not linear in fashion. As we progress we will experience the 'now', as that is all there is, but the past and the future will become less apparent, until we are fully in the moment. Again, this is my personal viewpoint.

notice, you are saying it yourself - 'fourth density and onwards' and 'As we progress we will experience the 'now', as that is all there is, but the past and the future will become less apparent'.

it is a gradual process. not instant. thoughts start to become 'things' in early 4d, and the 'time/spaceization', 'astralization' increases as the densities progress. timelessness increase. that goes on until late 7. it doesnt outright become a timeless place at the start of 4d.

if, you consider that, and also consider that it is possible to even see the future or past, in time space of 3d, in dreams or other phenomenon. since you actually can remember some of these in your 3d conscious form, that means that in a given moment that you saw the future or past in time space, you actually were in 3d vibration, thus, it will mean in the end that there ALSO is timelessness in 3d, but, this timelesness is very limited.

therefore, 3d is a place that is very heavy on the space/time side. if you call the time in 3d linear, then you can say that time gets increasingly less linear, but STILL is linear in early 4d, into 5d and on, in decreasing increments.

therefore, we are never in a truly timeless state, until we reach late 7d. it is a concept that is valid in our future. not our current place in space/time and time/space fabric.

It is evident we consider higher density teachings different things. I am referring to the lessons and experiences, while you are referring to specific information regarding the structure; it's description. I believe that we are understanding the higher densities in the context of a third density mind, and hence, extremely limited. Ra has mentioned that it's 'near impossible' to describe the higher densities in our language, and hence uses easily understood ideas.

that basically means you are actually meaning the life experience in higher densities. therefore that means, the experience of the significator, the mind/body/spirit of the entity complex itself.

manifestation is different from than knowledge. it is also different from spirit. the mechanisms and workings of the mind, spirit when tied to a 3d body, or a 4d body, or a 6d body will not change. they will still function as per their nature. they dont get different blueprints in every density. actually the mind part of that is the subject of entire book 4 of Ra material.

you can be tied to a 3d body, yet your mind still can wander off in far galaxies. you can be tied to a 3d body, yet your spirit can still function in the infinity itself. BODY will not be able to manifest any higher density thoughts or feelings, or sometimes it can hurt, due to the side effects of such high density work.

Agreed, Wanderers may indeed have a special purpose. I do recall a quote stating that living in love and peace was general to all Wanderers. I will try and find it.

no sir, wrong. two outright examples; thomas jefferson, benjamin franklin. they didnt live in love and peace. they didnt respond to everything with love. they actually staged a revolution, and participated in starting and concluding an armed conflict. their mission was probably to contribute/effect the establishment of a more freedom centered societal structure free of chains. so far, they succeeded in their lifetime.

another example, albeit a walk in (still somewhat a wanderer) is abraham lincoln. he is the person that caused and concluded a civil war to free enslaved people.

please remember that these names are the names Ra gave.

The green ray energies are coming through yes, and have been for decades. It is the individual's task to open up and prepare for these energies. Just because the Earth has them, does not mean the individual does. There is a quote from Hatonn/Latwii (The Brown Notebook) which states that it is up to us to evolve, and to match the frequency of the Earth (4D - green) if we wish to remain with her.

a 3d entity maybe. are you a 3d entity ? if you are an entity who incarnated here from, say, one of deneb's 6d planets, or inner planes, what relevance does this have to you ? was that a quote from hatonn, latwii, saying that wanderers should adjust their vibrations to 4d and stay on earth ?

I do not think anyone here is doing so, brother. Choosing love is the reason of this density, and those choices are supported by all aspects of one's consciousness centers/rays.

choosing love is the reason of THIRD density, and the lesson of third density entities. not wanderers. if wanderers, if they are of higher densities, start acting like 3d entities trying to make a choice, force themselves to that mindset, it will cause two things :

- it will deprive them of the service they can do with much needed higher vibrations

- it may reinforce the societal mind (since they are also a part of it) due to the strength of their selves, and in a way push/coerce/affect 3d entities using the same societal mind to get affected by choice and compelled to choose the same. even if it is not their time to choose, or it may not be their choice.

Which is why the balancing of the lower rays is implicit in nature. One cannot make efforts to balance themselves in which to be harvestable if ignoring these issues.

none of the 7 octave-pertinent rays are implicit. they are all equally important facets of existence. overemphasis of any of them over any other is wrong. an important sidenote is, if one constantly overemphasizes one of them, despite knowing that all of them are equally important, s/he still may give the wrong idea to those who are new to such information, and send them offtrack, and may cause serious consequences.

When one's ray is blocked, for example the yellow ray (dealing with other selves), energy cannot flow up to the heart/green ray, which is entirely necessary for fourth density graduation, as this gives the person added compassion, acceptance and understanding. This is why I originally pointed out a personality trait of yourself to defend your opinion with, what appears to be, frustration. It was done out of love, not judgment.

that is much better, and actually an approach much in line with the information offered in Ra. even if a bit wrong :

the meaning and function of yellow ray is 'there are others than me' and 'what will i do with these other entities'. had there been any blockage, intentional or otherwise, an entity would be contemplating on how to use the entities that are around them, for its own benefit and profit. if we take the issue in the field of spiritualism, he would be much more probably either engaged in perpetuating some kind of reliable/unreliable questionable (very probably influenced by negative sources) material that would profit him/her, empower him/her, and even bind entities to himself/herself. and in that process, s/he would hesitate from presenting disagreeing opinions with the masses s/he was trying to cater to, as doing as such is quite disservice to self interests. instead, s/he would be telling any entities in contact what they wanted to hear, slowly goading them in his/her own way.

the analysis you are intending to do actually involves orange ray. the 'me', 'self' ray, the consciousness which involves herd consciousness, approach, and also sees the entities outside as an extension of self. the notion of nation, religion, various other concepts. also it tends to identify with these or anything, taking any criticism of such external concepts and entities as an attack on the self.

in response, such an entity reacts aggressively to the entity perceived to be going out of the line. the line may be the nation, religion, or any concept the orange blockage entity identifies with, seeking obedience or adherence or conformance of that entity. which is a behavior pattern quite common these days, if you follow social and political climate lately.

however, which is, you see, has not been my behavior. leave aside criticism of anything outside that i may or may nor identify myself with, i havent even responded in kind when my very personality was attacked with coarse speech and aggressive demeanor.

but there is an important point here :

if an entity is normally in an energy balance x, and you introduce any influence from an entity to the environment from entity y with a blockage in a certain energy center, (contact, proximity, thought, or thought form concentration on the former), the energy in relevant chakra of entity x will flow to the blockage of the entity y.

this blockage may be permanent, or introduced with anger (as generally the case in orange ray intentional blockings of such cases), or any other reason. the end result wouldnt change - the energy would flow from high potential to low.

now, this wouldnt constitute much of a problem in one on one encounters in real life. if it is a one on one situation, you can actually let the energy flow, satiate and soothe the entity in front of you (provided that it is not too big a demand) , and then continue the encounter naturally.

but, in crowded environments like offices, or, more importantly internet, there is no end to this. if you allow draws, there will be no end to energy draws. because there are a lot of people reading these forums, discussions. 5-6 of them directing their thoughts to you in anger and aggravation with an energy blockage introduced to orange due to their perception of what they identify with being attacked (attacked, in their perception. actually criticized or contested), will result in no less than a huge draw. if allowed, you would need to spend most of your concentration in that energy center, trying to meet up the demand, probably offbalancing your total energy balance in favor of that one, and also, very probably if the situation persists, cause damage to the particular energy center (its body part) due to high energy draw happening from there. in the end, its a structure, and no circuit can hold excessive current flowing over them, in a sense.

if you go low down in energy, you cant keep higher energy chakras open, or functioning normally, and therefore you wont be able to keep the thoughts and ideas that are flowing from those energies. therefore, you wont be able to continue any kind of work you were doing with those energies. that includes any kind of dicussion, thought, work that requires high muse and inspiration, or insight. maybe it is one of the reasons people still heavy in orange consciousness do such aggressive acts. if we consider the fact that Ra said that our planetary consciousness circa 1980 was of orange nature, that event becomes even more commonplace.

one method to protect the energy balance of yourself in such situations is to introduce a measure of hold that is enough to offset the irrational demand of energy happening as such. ie, you 'hold' that energy sufficently to offset the 'attack' (conscious, intended or otherwise), so that you can keep your energy model. but, there is a major drawback to this - until the 'attack' subsides, and you can resume normal energy activity (ie, let go), neutral parties observing your situation may see or feel it as a blockage, feel like you are dangerous, aggressive, or egoist, or stubborn. (Depends on their interpretation actually). it is a very fine balance and very delicate effort. this is probably the reason why some of the people have perceived me as thus, after i have been heavily bounced on by some for dare proposing that "'god's plan in this logos may have falied".

there are other methods too, but, these include calling on external sources of energy, aides, sources of light, and expanding wasteful amounts of energy. these are things, which i see doing in internet discussions, or any random encounter in normal society, as, well, exceedingly wasteful.

Again my brother, we have different perspectives on higher density information. Yours is information learned from the Ra Material, understood with a third density personality. Mine is wisdom, which comes only from experience of the said densities. From my perspective, if wisdom can be learned in this density, then it is wisdom meant for this density. It all depends on how one perceives, and labels, the knowledge. Again, this is personal, and there is no right or wrong.

again, it seems you are confusing wisdom with the actual experience of the significator (mind/body/spirit complex of any given density) of that density. your approach totally negates q'uo's proposition that Ra heavily incarnating in a 3d planet that has a strong veil as being a side purpose of learning wisdom, which is needed for them for 6d.

Thank you. I would like to remind you that they we came here to help this planet - and specifically others - progress from third to fourth density.

you are aware that that progression includes innumerable requirements right ? and they include the planet being able to continue to exist without getting blasted into cinders by a nuclear war, like it happened to maldek, or being ravaged by any kind of war that sank atlantis, or, the alternative timeline that the actions of the elite of this planet necessitated it to be taken into, as q'uo says, or conceivable or inconceivable potential catastrophe, or mishap ?

and you are aware that, alternative timelines, alternative parallel existences, such phenomenon are phenomenon of 7d, and require strong balance and activity and energy in 7th energy center to actually effect, which would mean that for earth to be able to actually get moved into an alternative timeline, it would have to have a strong enough 7d energy (and therefore balance) so that it could actually continue without falling apart in the new timeline it had been put into ?

AND, especially, remembering that there are maybe hundreds of millions of wanderers (minimum 65 mil), majority of which from 6d, a density which strives through 7d balance ? and that the noticeable portion of those wanderers were from Ra, who said themselves to be closing fast on 7d ? AND therefore, a very important duty, and an opportunity this situation will provide them for working with their 7th chakra, as a result of the above situation, strengthening their overall balance and increasing their 7 activity ?

im not even going to go into the fact that there was still a 'war of light' going on in higher densities and astral planes of this world, due to it still being in 3d situation and that was a war that was fought with shaped and manifested light, and thought, as Ra said ?

as you can see, there is innumerable stuff going on in this world. the only thing this world needs is not love.

1ST DENSITY: The cycle of awareness
2ND DENSITY: Growth
3RD DENSITY: Self-awareness
4TH DENSITY: Love or understanding
5TH DENSITY: Light or wisdom (RA: We spent much time/space in 5th density balancing the intense compassion we had gained in 4th density)
6TH DENSITY: Light/love, love/light or unity (also frequently referred to as compassionate wisdom)
7TH DENSITY: The gateway cycle

you have 1 important mistake in one of the densities and two lackings of already given (by Ra and other sources) identification :

1st is density of movement, and change. flow is learned here. there isnt any consciousness as you name it in 3d. it is also the 8th of previous octave.

6th density is also density of co-creation, tho the co-creation starts with 5d.

7th density is the density of balance.

We're moving from 3D to 4D, if one only tries to gain 5D and higher information, the reasons of this density incarnation may be missed. This is particularly important as we are here to help others. We can help others by helping them to open their hearts.

we arent moving from 3d to 4d. this planet is already in 4d vibrations, and there are already entities who started their 4d work long ago, and the planetary consciousness is still heavily orangeish. these are information Ra gave us. actually they are easily discernable and identifiable with independent observation and information too.

reasons of this density incarnation are different for 3d entities and any other entiity of any other density. mistaking oneself as an 3d entity, out of confusion, the perceived need for humility, lack of self worth or any other reason would undo one's life purpose.

had benjamin franklin and thomas jefferson (and all the other wanderers incarnating during the 200 year wanderer wave Ra spoke of in those years) acted like 3d entities trying to make a choice of love for 4th density, and responded to everything they encountered with love, there wouldnt be modern democracies today, there wouldnt be freedom, and there wouldnt be a Ra material because the establishment controlled by the negative structure of this society would cramp down any such work.

[Richard]

There are more roads than one can count to intelligent infinity, the creator, god…the unified field…however you name your ultimate destination. There is my road, Ali’s road, Monica’s road…..Unity100’s road. Some roads may intersect…some may not. Some may double back on themselves or end in blind alleys…..but eventually they all continue.

We’re all traveling these roads. And every single one of us will end up in the same place…have ended up in the same place…are in the same place. And are probably looking at these arguments and laughing our light-touched metaphysical asses off at all of these human borne assumptions.

Richard

[haqiqu]

There are more roads than one can count to intelligent infinity, the creator, god…the unified field…however you name your ultimate destination. There is my road, Ali’s road, Monica’s road…..Unity100’s road. Some roads may intersect…some may not. Some may double back on themselves or end in blind alleys…..but eventually they all continue.

We’re all traveling these roads. And every single one of us will end up in the same place…have ended up in the same place…are in the same place. And are probably looking at these arguments and laughing our light-touched metaphysical asses off at all of these human borne assumptions.

Richard

Well said, Richard and that's really what I wanted to get across. I want to apologize to all for my part in this drama, particularly my fit of pique yesterday. I enjoy this forum and all the various ideas expressed here and I have learned alot from many of you. I just got weary of all the "persuasive" posts showing up here. There are many new wanderers coming here daily and I don't want to have them discouraged by my angst. I am taking a hiatus from this forum until I have cleared my negativities and can act from a place of love to not be negatively drawn into personal dramas.

There is only one destination, however the journey is different for each of us.

[Namaste]

Well put, Richard.

Unity - thank you for the post, there is a lot of useful information in there, I will absorb it and give it some thought.

[Pablísimo]

I want to apologize to all for my part in this drama, particularly my fit of pique yesterday. I enjoy this forum and all the various ideas expressed here and I have learned alot from many of you. I just got weary of all the "persuasive" posts showing up here. There are many new wanderers coming here daily and I don't want to have them discouraged by my angst.

Awesome! First place clearly goes to haqiqu! Thank you, dear sister, here is your prize:

What did the Yogi say when he walked into the Zen Pizza Parlor?
"Make me one with everything."

---

Well put, Richard.

I second that, very nicely put indeed!

Unity - thank you for the post, there is a lot of useful information in there, I will absorb it and give it some thought.

Well, shucks, Namaste. Your olive branch was really nice, too. I guess I'll have to give you the runner-up prize:

...When the Yogi got the pizza, he gave the proprietor a $20 bill. The proprietor pocketed the bill. The Yogi said "Don't I get change?" The proprietor said, "Change must come from within."

It's all I've got to you offer you guys at this moment, other than my gratitude.

That's the Spirit!

Love to all