Quietude & Asylum...

[AnthroHeart]

I've found that so long as I view all other selves....ALL other selves...as being worthy of my unconditional love, whether they accept it or not (...).

So based on this above, I would say every otherself is worthy, but it is not possible to fully love negative forces in every possible situation because this would mean acceptance of their intention of enslavement and the loss of one's ability to be of service.

Interesting, I thought that only applied to higher densities where enslavement is more rampant. Or at least I think it is. Not sure. It was making me think of Orion which is mostly 4D from what I recall. 4D can't enslave 3D, can it, especially in quarantine?

[Ashim]

I've found that so long as I view all other selves....ALL other selves...as being worthy of my unconditional love, whether they accept it or not (...).

So based on this above, I would say every otherself is worthy, but it is not possible to fully love negative forces in every possible situation because this would mean acceptance of their intention of enslavement and the loss of one's ability to be of service.

Interesting, I thought that only applied to higher densities where enslavement is more rampant. Or at least I think it is. Not sure. It was making me think of Orion which is mostly 4D from what I recall. 4D can't enslave 3D, can it, especially in quarantine?

4D can enslave 3D if 3D subscribes to being enslaved by their own free will choice.

[AnthroHeart]

I'd be interested to know how a 4D could enslave a 3D. Let's say the 3D allows this. Does the 4D entity abduct the 3D, and physically make them work in their mines or something? Or is it an enslavement of thoughts?

[Turtle]

Some here might believe that in order to view all other selves as worthy of unconditional love, that you must inevitably interact with those who are of an opposite polarity to a degree which can be described as unsavory or undesirable. This may be necessary at the beginning stages of such a choice of perspective, due to inexperience and lack of understanding of possible experiences to be had. However, this is in no way shape or form a necessary dynamic between one's self and other selves, especially once initial encounters are reflected upon honestly and diligently...now of course if you choose to have interactions with any beings of opposite polarity, you must question why you invite such an experience in the first place. This question has more weight once initial encounters have been experienced and are at some level known to be undesirable. It is choice. A finely tuned and shall I say, expanded sense of personal responsibility of one's choices is necessary to be able to seamlessly and effortlessly continue to choose experiences in which one does not do battle in any sense with other selves. At such a point, even internal changes and processing of experiences are not felt or experienced as struggles and battles within to evolve to higher levels. Instead, the whole endeavor of personal evolution gradually and surely becomes a thing of joy and wonder, and any and all bumps in the road are experienced as puzzles and exciting novelty.

Side note: I understand many times battles and struggles in our shared co-creation that is Earth takes the form of STO beings fighting other STO beings of differing values. Regardless of a being's polarized status, what I am speaking about applies to interactions between one's self and other selves period. Doesn't matter how they are wired, or how *ahem* advanced or powerful you or they perceive each other to be.

I speak from my own experiences, as I'm sure we all do. If any part of what I say is at odd's with anyone's experience, well then? Do we not all have very unique stories? I welcome and enjoy any further feedback, and to godwide_void, thank you for starting this thread, it has brought me something interesting to participate in again on this forum...something which got me out of "lurker" mode again This may be short lived but no matter, I enjoy this!

[Melissa]

Yay, turtle. I absolutely agree! And it's something I've been struggling with for the longest time, continuously trying to 'prove' unconditional love, while, in the meantime, I felt like crap due to the immense difference in uhmm perspective/values/preferences etc. For me it's actually a form of self-hatred to keep myself in such relationships with others, where there is no mutual respect or acceptance. Stepping away after careful consideration is quite scary, especially when it involves family, but extremely liberating.

[Plenum]

C) Has anyone here ever asked themselves whether those "in power" would really be compliant with the free and unregulated theophanous activation of individuals and the cultivation of spiritual, metaphysical and psychic power and the attainment of divine awareness and extremely heightened consciousness, especially when those who fit such criteria display modes of thought and opinion not in accordance with and even counter to "their" agenda?

...

There are those who are aware that they are One, and yet they have no qualms with sabotaging the health, mind, well-being and consciousness of other Ones. This is not to foster fear, but a word to the wise to retain the awareness that anonymity acts as a shroud for the wholesome and unwholesome alike, and that spirituality is not all fun, games, rainbows and unicorns.

Hi GV, you've had a chance to offer the forums some advice, and I guess this thread has offered the opportunity for the forums to offer you some advice back in return.

A lot of good thoughts have been offered already, but I'll just add that you might want to the check your red-ray chakra; that energy centre to do with survival, and highly geared towards 'fear' and a 'dangerous world' etc.

[Poet]

Yay, turtle. I absolutely agree! And it's something I've been struggling with for the longest time, continuously trying to 'prove' unconditional love, while, in the meantime, I felt like crap due to the immense difference in uhmm perspective/values/preferences etc. For me it's actually a form of self-hatred to keep myself in such relationships with others, where there is no mutual respect or acceptance. Stepping away after careful consideration is quite scary, especially when it involves family, but extremely liberating.

I made similar experiences like you, not in my family, but in my former circle of friends. This is a difficult issue because the edge is fluent between avoiding catalyst and going people out of the way which don't fit to oneself. But if there is no respect like you say, or no basis of interest or something else one shares, it is better to step away.

This is also an issue of self-love: If you are good to yourself, you just surround yourself with people you really like. With whom you really feel comfortable and enjoy to spend time with. This doesn't mean you don't love unconditionally imo, it just means that there are persons to which you can relate more than to others. You can still be respectful, caring and accepting to all others, or show your love in other ways. But it's wasted time to engage in relations where there is no respect, interest, acceptance or else. If others are not good to you and you let it be, you are actually not good to yourself.

In my case, I lacked self-respect and external reality mirrored this back to me. Took me a while to figure this out and to "liberate" myself from it. Ever since, I still experience this catalyst in other situations, but far less strong like in the past.

[ScottK]

A lot of good thoughts have been offered already, but I'll just add that you might want to the check your red-ray chakra; that energy centre to do with survival, and highly geared towards 'fear' and a 'dangerous world' etc.

If you wish to help others in your life, it is quite appropriate to consider when there might be danger to you. It's much harder to help anyone on this plane if your physical incarnation has been terminated prematurely.

Would it be wise to walk down a dark alley in a high crime part of a city and looking in your wallet to see how much money you have? Of course not. You avoid the danger. Same thing.. That's not living in fear - it's living in reality.

I suppose it's easier to choose to live in complete denial of all danger and all potential groups who are STS in nature, but, in my opinion, not wise if you have others in your life who you want to help.. Balancing reality and spiritual is the challenge.

[Unbound]

I feel it would be foolish to not accept/acknowledge that there are other individuals and entities whom have chosen to take on predatory roles. Awareness of this is part of being aware of the totality of the self, imo.

I agree there is no need or benefit to surrounding oneself with enemies seen in the mind, but that doesn't mean there is nothing worth being conscious of. I believe Ra says the red-ray needs to be accepted as the foundation and it is through that acceptance that it is balanced. Survival stability doesn't just come from "feeling okey-dokey about one's chance of living" but a real grasping of one's own experiences and being aware of all the conditions one is faced with. That one person sees one set of conditions and another sees another doesn't mean both states of condition do not exist.

My immense concern is that there was an immediate mistrust and skepticism offered to GWV without barely an attempt from most to put themselves in his shoes and see through his eyes. There was no acceptance of his perceptions or even benefit of the doubt given towards his message. In my eyes, he has provided a catalyst which has clearly shown the discomfort most have with the idea that there are aspects of nature and reality which are predatory or antagonistic. Yes, they exist within us, but what is within is also without and there is a lot of solipsistic 'spiritual bypassing', a fairly popular term lately, whereby the infinite self within is seen to be the only meaningful or relevant aspect of experience.

I am probably projecting like crazy, but honestly I don't know what else to do at this point because this attitude is so natural in this place that I do not feel I can not do it myself. I am just as guilty as anyone, but what I seek to understand is why.

[Melissa]

I think it's because we've become so accustomed to deny that we're basically self-conscious 'animals'. It's uncomfortable to acknowledge that not everyone has your best interest at heart, or to accept that aspect/behavior as part of self.

"If you ever start taking things too seriously, just remember that we are talking monkeys on an organic spaceship flying through the universe."

[zenmaster]

Tanner, it's a fool proof system where we will interpret experience according to what we have bothered to make conscious of ourselves. Ain't no other way. We learn, grow, and remove distortions which make previous viewpoints utterly obsolete and child like.

[AnthroHeart]

Tanner, it's a fool proof system where we will interpret experience according to what we have bothered to make conscious of ourselves. Ain't no other way. We learn, grow, and remove distortions which make previous viewpoints utterly obsolete and child like.

It's a very slow process I have found. I don't notice how I am much different than I was a few months ago.

[zenmaster]

Tanner, it's a fool proof system where we will interpret experience according to what we have bothered to make conscious of ourselves. Ain't no other way. We learn, grow, and remove distortions which make previous viewpoints utterly obsolete and child like.

It's a very slow process I have found. I don't notice how I am much different than I was a few months ago.

Speed is related to how much responsibility one bothers to take for oneself. We are given infinity to progress, so why bother at all?

[Adonai One]

The confusion in this thread is substantial. It is so substantial that it should be considered an infringement on those who read it. I wish to say that I do not believe there are any significant threats to anyone who reads this forum nor would anyone target a person for such.

[Fang]

It's not infringement as we inhabit the same experiential nexus. I don't think there is any threat to anyone either though.

[isis]

The confusion in this thread is substantial. It is so substantial that it should be considered an infringement on those who read it. I wish to say that I do not believe there are any significant threats to anyone who reads this forum nor would anyone target a person for such.

I LOVE YOUR AVATAR!!! SYNCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i was just thinking so hard about data/androids just now just b4 visiting b4th & seeing your new avatar. i've been getting more synchs today than normal...mainly clock-related ones

[Poet]

The confusion in this thread is substantial.

Where do you see the confusion, Adonai?

[Adonai One]

The confusion in this thread is substantial.

Where do you see the confusion, Adonai?

The confusion extends as far as claiming this planetary sphere is this aware of the potential of spiritual awareness and is clamoring to cease it at this time. I do not see it being of this quality due to the fact that the Ra material was published as it currently is. All things are well.

This is my belief/understanding. Please use your own discernment.

[Fang]

It's time to understand that as much as we would love to make a narrative of our personal development it's only a story for our personal enjoyment.

The spirit that is alive within you does not need a false sense of importance to exist, it exists as is, which is really the state of things worth looking into beyond mere intuitive suggestion. Once we stop using unnecessarily flowery language in social situations as a substitute for actual understanding and stop framing our personal experience as a cosmic struggle rather than a human trying to make sense of the world, we become much more human. And this, perhaps counter intuitively, is actually what allows us to become more "spiritual" in Ra's sense of spirit.

This false dichotomy of STO/STS hurts people greatly and promotes all sorts of black and white, us vs them thought patterns which aren't all that helpful or beneficial and it actually really hurts me to see people get swallowed up in all that. I'm not saying to go to the idea of "all is one no sts exists in unity", it's important to acknowledge the distinction between things, but it's also important to see things as they are rather than what we would like them to be.

Good luck to you GWV.

[Jade]

I feel it would be foolish to not accept/acknowledge that there are other individuals and entities whom have chosen to take on predatory roles. Awareness of this is part of being aware of the totality of the self, imo.

I agree there is no need or benefit to surrounding oneself with enemies seen in the mind, but that doesn't mean there is nothing worth being conscious of. I believe Ra says the red-ray needs to be accepted as the foundation and it is through that acceptance that it is balanced. Survival stability doesn't just come from "feeling okey-dokey about one's chance of living" but a real grasping of one's own experiences and being aware of all the conditions one is faced with. That one person sees one set of conditions and another sees another doesn't mean both states of condition do not exist.

My immense concern is that there was an immediate mistrust and skepticism offered to GWV without barely an attempt from most to put themselves in his shoes and see through his eyes. There was no acceptance of his perceptions or even benefit of the doubt given towards his message. In my eyes, he has provided a catalyst which has clearly shown the discomfort most have with the idea that there are aspects of nature and reality which are predatory or antagonistic. Yes, they exist within us, but what is within is also without and there is a lot of solipsistic 'spiritual bypassing', a fairly popular term lately, whereby the infinite self within is seen to be the only meaningful or relevant aspect of experience.

I am probably projecting like crazy, but honestly I don't know what else to do at this point because this attitude is so natural in this place that I do not feel I can not do it myself. I am just as guilty as anyone, but what I seek to understand is why.

Thank you for your post, Tanner. I was going to post one of my own but then I realized that it would be a rehash of what you said.

I just want to add that some of the responses to the OP were pretty indicative of its initial intent. Our brother was trying to be of service and I think some of the reactions to "the messenger" are unfortunate. Do we call the weatherman a fear-monger for offering us awareness of an impending tornado? Do we just dismiss him and say he must have red-ray issues because we are infinite beings and even the death and destruction of natural forces cannot eliminate us? What about those who have palaces that are less fortified, do you not maybe consider what your neighbor may need to ease the inconveniences caused by such a "natural disaster", or do you say, I'm good, I see no evil, I am free and that is all that matters, their lack of fortification is their problem?

Sometimes we can be very quick to dismiss realities that may involve any sort of negative projection, and instead overcompensate with positive projection. This isn't necessarily a a bad thing, but harkens back to what Tanner referred to as the "the awareness of...the totality of self" that does involve a shadow that many of us are uncomfortable with.

My involvement with this topic comes from reaction of seeing other selves fleeing from the storm. We sweep those who leave this forum because of perceived negativity under the rug and say they are just experiencing negative interpretation of catalyst. This is true, but when several different entities are experiencing the same "negative interpretation of catalyst" it seems like this may be because the injury isn't as psychosomatic as we may prefer to think and that there may actually require some treatment of the wound, so to speak.

[xise]

I agree with Jade and Tanner.

It's just strange to dismiss things from being discussed because they can't be proven. It's also strangely humbling to see conspiracies of mass surveillance being proved true (I never bought into them until it happened).

The OP may or may not be true. But it's odd to see such a push-back given how experience often tells us that we can learn a lot by discussion about subjects even without proof.

Historically speaking, anecdotal evidence was the basis of many beliefs and recommendations. The pure scientific method is better - proof is better - but our ancestors did learn some useful things thousands of years ago on the basis of hearsay.

Here we have BrownEye, Godwide_Void, Parsons, and perhaps A1 (in the past) claiming to have some anecdotal experience seemingly all related to this phenomenon. Most of these posters seldom have reeked of paranoia, but certainly it could be a common distortion. Certainly they could all be honestly mistaken. But just because there is no proof doesn't mean it's automatically something to be dismissed completely. There is value in un-provable anecdotes, and they they should be discussed. Even if there is a common distortion, it's even more important that we meet those distortions with understanding and open arms rather than create an harsh forum harsh atmosphere where concerns of these nature become underground, shadow, and something that only is talked about in PMs.

This is a forum dedicated to the unproven Ra material. We're reading about ancient astronauts who spoke in 1981 and we can't have an open mind to discussing things we may not agree with?

If indeed these warnings are true, they should be explored. If indeed these warnings are part of some common distortion, they should be explored and balanced through discussion on the forum. In short, it might be useful for everyone to take a deep breath, and continue to discuss these things in an open minded and welcoming manner.

[Melissa]

Yes, let's all keep calm and be spiritual, folks! :p

[Poet]

This discussion has somehow taken a twofold way imo. On the one side, we are talking about conspiracies and STO-elites on a more planetary level. On the other side, the question is how to interact with people perceived as negative on a personal daily-life level. I wouldn't call the later STO but rather "perceived as negative by the self."

It's just strange to dismiss things from being discussed because they can't be proven. It's also strangely humbling to see conspiracies of mass surveillance being proved true (I never bought into them until it happened).(...)

I agree with most of what you wrote xise, although I don't think a great deal of Popper's philosophy. I wouldn't reject an idea/hypothesis just because it doesn't seem to be falsifiable. But why did you label mass surveillance as a conspiracy then? Why didn't you say that you don't know whether it is true or not?

[Ashim]

Tanner, it's a fool proof system where we will interpret experience according to what we have bothered to make conscious of ourselves. Ain't no other way. We learn, grow, and remove distortions which make previous viewpoints utterly obsolete and child like.

It's a very slow process I have found. I don't notice how I am much different than I was a few months ago.

Speed is related to how much responsibility one bothers to take for oneself. We are given infinity to progress, so why bother at all?

Zenmaster, maybe you have less distortion to work with than many here.
Are you still using that flouride free toothpaste?

[Unbound]

Redacted.

---

So, I have a question for everyone. There is a fair amount in the Ra Material dedicated to the discussion of the apparent 5th density entity which was offering the group various forms of negativity or enslavement in order to either stop the group or destabilize them. Do you see this as a unique and special case, or otherwise? I believe it is also said that the 4th density are the main body of the "crusaders" of Orion, purported to be an organization which is precisely designed for control and to polarize negatively. There are, of course, also positive entities of these densities as well of the Confederation and many others I would presume, all interacting with Earth right now.

Do you think this negative organization actually exists?

[xise]

I agree with most of what you wrote xise, although I don't think a great deal of Popper's philosophy. I wouldn't reject an idea/hypothesis just because it doesn't seem to be falsifiable. But why did you label mass surveillance as a conspiracy then? Why didn't you say that you don't know whether it is true or not?

I wasn't necessarily commenting on whether the OP's statements are in actuality falsifiable or necessarily promulgating Popper's philosophy (which is about the value of un-falsifiable stuff); just that they're not backed by current proof.

I've learned from the whole surveillance conspiracy (it was a conspiracy theory until Snowden) proven true - I now definitely think there's value to ask questions about something for which no proof currently exists whereas before I hadn't really worried about that sort of stuff at all.

[Adonai One]

This is not a discussion of whether this is fact or fiction: The question is if fear is a valid method of spreading wisdom. The original post is spreading fear in many individuals in this community and others. I do not believe this is an acceptable distortion given the sensitivity of spiritual seeking.

[reeay]

Negative entities and organizations utilize our own imbalances, therefore, we can either attribute the problem and responsibilities solely to the external, or, acknowledge the problem and responsibilities on a more whole-istic level (inclusive of our own 'stuff'). Engaging in the former would merely distract us from our own work here. Engaging in the latter would promote more long-term, vibrational changes - i.e., growth. In short, the etiology of problems comes from our imbalances and our own catalyst. External involvement provides the feedback necessary to work with our imbalances.

In the L/L experience, they were targeted due to the nature of their work, which was to receive a message that may potentially change how we understand self and the process of our vibrational uplifting. In this context, I would not be surprised that they were targeted. However, due to such experiences they were able to become more aware of their own imbalances and necessity for work. And so, is the purpose to prevent such attacks by eliminating the external factors that lead to distress or to interpret the experience in a light that leads to growth promotion?

[Melissa]

In certain situations it is a sign of growth to remove yourself from these kind of external factors.

[Fang]

A1, exactly.
The fear based presentation of any information should be avoided.

As for "dismissing", when challenged instead of qualifying the claims the OP just attacked at a personal level, why discuss things with a someone who is not willing to listen? Is he participating in the thread now? No, so his claims can't be expanded or justified, all we are left with is an unfalsifiable claim based on fear.

Here we have BrownEye, Godwide_Void, Parsons, and perhaps A1 (in the past) claiming to have some anecdotal experience seemingly all related to this phenomenon.

I was going to make the same post as the OP 9 months ago as Aloysius. Like I said, you grow out of things and past perspectives look as zm said " utterly obsolete and child like". People want to be prophets and the OP has in the past jumped to fantastical notions and shown enthusiasm to frame things in a transcendent way before.

Do we call the weatherman a fear-monger for offering us awareness of an impending tornado?

Well a weatherman is qualified to make those claims as he has studied meteorology (or is at least informed by people who have and do) and is employed to inform the public of the weather conditions and is not going by unspecified "spiritual guidance". I'm not taking you too literally here it's just that so many bad analogies get thrown around like they make sense when they don't and are just tools of persuasion.

I mean, read this

Blaming others for mishaps in one's life rather than taking responsibility is of course immature, except when psychic sorcery/remote negative influencing are at play.

What we have is a regression rather than progression.

And of course we can't forget the "I'm so advanced spiritually that if you don't agree with me you lack my metaphysical prowess"

Sorry if you lack reliable guiding forces or don't possess the psychical capacity to detect wolves in sheep's clothing. I have no enemies other than those whose pompous arrogance is glaring and whose propensity towards adversarial modes of action and intention towards others exists, specifically when such individuals possess a certain degree of spiritual awareness.

And last but least the ol' self righteous us vs. them mentality

They are essentially STS. Some even masquerade as STO to keep up appearances and public acceptance. Some STS individuals don't take kindly to the idea that there exist some whose metaphysical prowess may surpass theirs exponentially.