does the word 'desire' have negative overtones for you?

[Plenum]

Plenum, you are now a Bring4Th Staff member? Congratulations, man, congratulations!

lol Oldern. Yes, newly minted bring4th moderator! the paint is still drying

I should visit the forums more often once more.

yes ... they have a saying ... build it and they will come.

the monument of plenum is being constructed as we speak

(just kidding!)

thanks for the words, and I hope you find what you are looking for in the forums. Many blessings brother.

Plenum

[Rake]

Seth describes Desire as Action.

[Zachary]

I've always seen the word desire in a neutral light...

I do feel however that desire is a word largely misinterpreted in the 'spiritual' community...

When it is said that we experience what we desire to experience, which i believe to be Law...to understand why this is so, one must be aware of the depths of Ones Self to realize that true desire doesn't always flow in congruence with ones immediate conscious minds interpretation of desire.

Often times the conscious minds 'desire' goes against the deeper and more potent desire that originates from within the self.

So to me before one throws around the term desire so loosely in this context one must first evaluate from what level the desire originates.

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I "desire" an ice cream cone, yet due to my diet I know it will make me feel not so good afterwards.

I desire asparagus rice and lentils for dinner because I know this will serve my body best at this current moment, yet I LUST for a cheeseburger.

I desire to own Rolls Royce and a large home, yet I "desire" MORE to feel lack

I desire to receive certain catalysts in this incarnation that will help me grow yet will manifest as challenges, yet I resist.

[reeay]

Lots of times, even if it's not conscious the person will act in ways where the desire may be evident to others but not to self. We can even trace desires to ones family of origin bc lots of expectations are adopted thru our family and social influences... Sometimes it's contrary so that plays out as ambiguity (flip flop) and totally confusing to person and others.

In matters of luxury goods, it could be lack and it could be social or familial expectations, too, if that person comes from a background where luxury items are normal.

Food: if ii were used to eating cheeseburgers bc that's what was usually consumed, but there are social expectations to eat healthy, then there is conflict with social/personal ideals and expectation and ones desired behaviors.

[Unbound]

I have seen it said by Yogi's that "Liberation is Moksha". Moksha means desirelessness. What do you all think the reciprocal of desire would manifest as in its desirelessness?

[Adonai One]

Could you restate the question?

[Fang]

Moksha means liberation so the yogi's explanation seems rather redundant, it's like saying "liberation is liberation" lol
Moksha is not necessarily a desire-less state, it is a release from something which one was bound to, which can be desire but is not exclusive to that property
I had a pet bat named Moksha, just a personal anecdote lol

[reeay]

Service is a desire so wouldn't any being have desire?

[Adonai One]

Even the universe, "the creator" has desire by proof of our very existence. A true state of "desirelessness" (or rather desiring everything) is a state of completetion into the next octave -- or very likely a state of great unpolarized repression.

Every being has semblance of individual desire until it becomes all.

[Namaste]

Without desire, 3D would be ineffectual.

Without 3D and polarity - the choice; desire - how would the Infinite One learn to discover itself? That itself must have been born from desire.

Desire is an element of what makes us grow, and change, and learn.

[Unbound]

My question was more - what defines the spectrum from "desire" to "desirelesness"?

[Poet]

My question was more - what defines the spectrum from "desire" to "desirelesness"?

Based on that what Adonai wrote, one could say the spectrum of desire is defined by the amount of seperateness one experiences. For me, every desire is caused by a need for union. Humans want to transcend the separation they experience in this world and become again a creator instead of a creature. This means that the very situation of our human existence implies desires. If there would be a state of total union, there would be no desire because one desires already all which is desiring nothing.

So my answer to your question would be: Desirelesness is union, desire is separation.

But what I don't understand is why the creator had then the desire to experience itself at the beginning of creation...

[Unbound]

Is not infinity lonely if there is only One?

[Rake]

Is not infinity lonely if there is only One?

lONEly.

[Unbound]

The many are two, the two are one, the one is none.

[reeay]

Aloneness of the spiritual path
http://youtu.be/JAqfrxjexXk

[Rake]

My question was more - what defines the spectrum from "desire" to "desirelesness"?

Is it not a paradox? desiring to be desire-less?. As I mentioned earlier Seth speaks of Desire as Action. If there is no desire then there would be no action?. If there was no action would the one simply be still content unmoving?.

Very intriguing i must stroke my beard and smoke thy pipe.

[Unbound]

Reasonably, desirelessness would not be something desired or else it is negated, however that doesn't mean desirelessness cannot be realized without the desire to be so, but rather as a function of the state of balance of the individual. There is the large gulf between wanting and clinging to the idea of desirelessness and desirelessness arising out of a configuration of self. It could perhaps be said no configuration exists without desire, but I think it is a matter of interpretation.

What is the difference between desire and attraction? Desire is really just a word describing an attraction however desire connotates an object of desire, the direction of that attraction. The object of desire is the motivation or impetus for action, it accesses a potential.

What do you all think of the idea that desire may be potential intention energy? Desire is the building of the charge required to do work.

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I think there is a difference between "having desires" and "using desire".

[Adonai One]

I think you are describing the duality of detachment/attachment.

[xise]

Jumping back into the discussion, this thread is more timely than I realized. I have only now, in the past few days, consistently felt energy in my rear orange ray. It's actually been like a constant, subtle orgasmic energy for hours on end. Kind of neat.

Anyway, before you read the following words, consider that is a poor translation of ray concepts into language.

Acceptance of your desire, including carrying out your desires, is a essential part of the orange ray. Both deeper desires and not-thought-out-desires (which I would call impulses) are acceptable, though most of us who are interested in evolution will focus more on deeper desires, but they are not to be overcome.

I have now banned myself (I know, the irony ) from using the following phrases/words:
"You/I should"
"You/I must"
"You/I have to"
"You/I need to"

Instead, I have replaced the internal/external dialogue with:
"I want"
"I desire"
"I feel"
"I think it's important for"

I trust myself. I trust myself fully. I have removed the devil's archtype-like chains of should, must, need, have to, from my neck. I seek to do only that what I want to do.

It's not always readily accessible as to how I use this, because I think people do not use the words want, desire at a deep level. Example of how I use them now:

Example Question: Do you want to take out the trash xise? (I'm the only one in the house this week)

Response: Meh, I feel lazy right now. But do I want to take out the trash? If I don't do it today, the they won't pickup the trash for another week, and it could start smelling. I don't want the house to be smelling. So although I feel lazy right now, I think I do want to take out the trash.

So in conclusion, desire is at the very heart of my orange ray self-acceptance. I embrace it, fully and completely. I now try to see all things through the lens of informed, deep desire. This type of focus on what I truly desire also taps into the blue ray, I believe, because it involves examining you desires, and examining conflict feelings and conflicting desires as the trash example slightly touched upon. But there are no more rules, no more shoulds, no more musts to "follow". I follow my own free will. I follow my own deep wants and desires. And I accept myself fully because of it.

[Unbound]

I think you are describing the duality of detachment/attachment.

Isn't that directly tied to desire?

[Poet]

Aloneness of the spiritual path
http://youtu.be/JAqfrxjexXk

Thank you rie for posting. I already stumbled over Ken Wilber when I saw a video where he points out the very essence of Kant's epistemology. There was also a discussion about solipsism where truesimultaneity made the same point like Wilber in the video.

The Paradox of Solipsism

Psychologist Erich Fromm gives the answer for me when he writes:

Thought can only lead us to the knowledge that it cannot give us the ultimate answer. The world of thought remains caught in the paradox. The only way in which the world can be grasped ultimately lies, not in thought, but in the act, in the experience of oneness.

Albert Schweitzer meant something similar when he said that rationalism can just give us the knowledge that it cannot give us the last answer to our questions.

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Sorry for the off-topic, but this music is really amazing...