does the word 'desire' have negative overtones for you?

[Plenum]

Ra doesn't have any issue using the word 'desire'.

In fact, there are 187 instances of it, no small number.

Ra uses it in a neutral fashion, to indicate the 'thing wanted'.

I have always attached a more negative overtone to the word, as if it represented something selfish, and self-serving. But that stance has moderated somewhat.

on a closer reading of the Core Statement of Buddhism, the 4 Noble Truths, it is not desire that is the cause of the suffering, but rather the attachment to that desire which causes the issues.

Four Noble Truths

1. Suffering exists
2. Suffering arises from attachment to desires
3. Suffering ceases when attachment to desire ceases
4. Freedom from suffering is possible by practicing the Eightfold Path

well spoken indeed.

[bosphorus]

Ra doesn't have any issue using the word 'desire'.

In fact, there are 187 instances of it, no small number.

Ra uses it in a neutral fashion, to indicate the 'thing wanted'.

I have always attached a more negative overtone to the word, as if it represented something selfish, and self-serving. But that stance has moderated somewhat.

on a closer reading of the Core Statement of Buddhism, the 4 Noble Truths, it is not desire that is the cause of the suffering, but rather the attachment to that desire which causes the issues.

Four Noble Truths

1. Suffering exists
2. Suffering arises from attachment to desires
3. Suffering ceases when attachment to desire ceases
4. Freedom from suffering is possible by practicing the Eightfold Path

well spoken indeed.

very good. however i'd like to say it's not possible to give up on being attached to desires. since desires reflect the things that gives us joy of living. And without them we'd be void. just a non-individual energy. Therefore imo it's not useful to cease attaching to desires.

---

as far as i know even God has desires. at His Highest Form. As even God does have a desire, it's undesirable to not have a desire.( what a sentence )

[xise]

Impulsive or fleeting surface-level desires are distractions that need not be explored (but exploration is, as always, acceptable); deep desires are important to explore.

I have a positive view of the word desire, but I think it's been given a "bad rap".

I think it's the surface level desires that can give desire a bad rap. But I think desire, which I define as deep desire as opposed to surface level impulses, overall, is a very important and very useful thing to explore. Deep desires come from often unrecognized deeply held beliefs, and thus it is a very useful way to explore the deep desire to directly access balancing and directly access the underlying core beliefs. Deep desire isn't to be overcome as Ra said; I think it is to be explored. Another tool, just like chakra-feedback, to use when balancing.

However, attachment is in general, not a useful thing. I think attachment to anything lacks acceptance of the present and having faith in the universe. But we're not ones to control that attachment; we're to accept it. Accept it, go deeper, and ask why the attachment exists. Once the cause of the attachment and not the symptom (the attachment itself) is identified, and subsequently balanced with new beliefs, the charge of the attachment dissipates and it ceases to exist.

[Melissa]

[Sagittarius]

Just because you seek and carry out a desire doesn't mean you aren't unattached to it. My experience with most desires has been, experience it once or hear about it and get attached (constant mental chatter about the what's and what if's of the action/object) Carry out the desire for a variable period of time with your catalyst buzzing, the affects of the desire on the mind/body/spirit and how it changes your consciousness. Continual focused watching of the affects until a conscious state is found for whereby the desire has no been experienced in any negative sense.

[Adonai One]

Living is a desire. Death is without.

[Sagittarius]

Living is a desire. Death is without.

Can't experience death without the desire for it . Desire allows for consciousness and experience. The physical formed because atoms "desired" to be together, because the seed "desires" to sprout into the light.

[Adonai One]

Bingo. Death is an illusion. Yet the collapsing entity seeks the end of its desire and the end of itself for it slowly desires to desire nothing. However, to desire nothing is to desire everything.

[zenmaster]

very good. however i'd like to say it's not possible to give up on being attached to desires.

Once a desire is made conscious, it is transformed. There is no attachment with consciousness. Desires are a reflection of our level of vibration, which of course changes.

[Unbound]

Desire is displacement of energy.

[zenmaster]

Desire is displacement of energy.

What is something that is not a displacement of energy?

[Unbound]

Exactly!

[zenmaster]

If everything is a displacement of energy, then what is the point in the comment?

[Unbound]

I was stating what I thought of desire, so I suppose to answer the thread title, no, it doesn't. However, it used to - when I identified it and with it as something which was unconscious control of the self, although that may also be true sometimes, it made me feel powerless. Now I know it is an idea that is part of my self perception as related to my mind/body/spirit complex and I can choose to interpret the nature of its existence in my life insofar as I am cognitively able.

[Fang]

To preserve a desire without consciously acknowledging and investigating it is basically just ignoring the catalyst provided.

I see desire as a transient provider of impetus, to be pursued if one wants ("desires" har har) to move/grow/progress so not really a negative thing for me but I can see how it may be for many, it certainly was for me when I was younger in a religious household.

[Poet]

I don't see a negative tone in it. Live itself is a desire, otherwise you would have to kill yourself immediately. Suffering can be an outcome of a desire, but this is just catalyst with potential for further development.

This is maybe a little off-topic but it is a thought I wanted to write anyway: I observed that balancing seems to mean for some people that one has no feelings at all or only little emotional fluctuations. But for me, even if one is perfectly balanced, he/she would still feel about things in a happy, sad or other way. If you feel sad for instance, you would also feel happy later because you processed the catalyst which caused it. In the end, you are in a kind of equilibrium where your emotions are balanced with their counterparts and you don't supress anything. To feel nothing and to have no emotions is not balancing for me.

[Fang]

Yeah balancing results from first identifying, then acknowledging, then exploring, then eventually accepting catalyst, once the catalyst is accepted, balancing begins.

Some would say acceptance is a prerequisite of and integral to the action of love, which is where the balanced being acts from.

"To the truly balanced entity no situation would be emotionally charged" kinda denotes to me a state of harmony rather than indifference as the balanced entity would still act to serve rather than just wallow in nihilism.

[neutral333]

No. Desire for the wrong reasons (pride, revenge, vanity, greed) is painful. Desire for the enlightenment of all has NO negative "overtone" whatsoever.

[zenmaster]

I'm thinking suffering, rather than pain, is negative. Pain is feedback while suffering is lack of addressing feedback.

[reeay]

This is like over-simplified negative looping & amplification effect of suffering:
Pain + negative interpretation of pain --> avoidance of pain --> suffering--> neg interpret of catalyst --> attempt 'solution' of avoidance, again -->more suffering --> repeat till ready to do something different!


Exception: Pain + approach pain --> temporary suffering/discomfort due (i.e. healing crisis)
when there is 'healing crisis' pain is brought up to surface for examination so it's gonna be painful & person might experience suffering temporarily.

Desire is just conscious or unconscious needs that tends to influence our behavior, emotions, thoughts, etc.,. e.g., Attachment is a necessary and important part of human development - certain needs are hopefully met at certain period of one's growing up process. As one matures (more 'individuated'), the needs around relationships w/ people & things change. More individuated people have less attachment/baggage bc they 'grow out of it' by working thru their unconscious stuffs.

[zenmaster]

The "solution" for avoidance is often the appeal to spiritual notions because these offer a means to temporarily transcend any condition of catalyst feedback through mere ideas and ideology which serve to connect us with a higher state of being.

[reeay]

And Temporary transcendence is like temporary solutions that can lead to misunderstanding that something is working to take care of problem, but is actually just strengthening avoidance.

[Adonai One]

Accepting your problems with faith they will be healed is often mistaken for transcendence, when in fact it prevents further clinging to ones pain.

[reeay]

How so Adonai?

[Adonai One]

A significant attachment to resolution can lead to anger and hatred against what you are trying to resolve, This causes one to cling to the rejection of the self and catalyst if there is little to no patience and acceptance in the healing process.

[AnthroHeart]

I like desire. It's what makes me human. I don't think we have desire on the other side.

[Unbound]

I like desire. It's what makes me human. I don't think we have desire on the other side.

Then how could you choose your next experience?

[reeay]

A significant attachment to resolution can lead to anger and hatred against what you are trying to resolve, This causes one to cling to the rejection of the self and catalyst if there is little to no patience and acceptance in the healing process.

That could certainly compound to the original problem of avoiding pain. It would then distract us and distance us from looking at the core problem (avoid pain) by selecting this particular tangent as the 'real, core problem'.

I think if there is an analogy to describe the complexities of our problems, desires, and whatnot, it could be like 'peeling an onion.'

[AnthroHeart]

I like desire. It's what makes me human. I don't think we have desire on the other side.

Then how could you choose your next experience?

You're probably right, but I think that desire works differently. I've read in many places we don't have sexual desire on the other side. We're guided in our next experience by guides and elders. I don't think we could do it on our own (select our next experience). You've made me curious about how desire plays out on the other side.

[Oldern]

Plenum, you are now a Bring4Th Staff member? Congratulations, man, congratulations!
I should visit the forums more often once more.