College: Is it really necessary?

[Marc]

Throughout my life I've never really knew what I was going to do with my life and I started of college classes here and there. But everytime, I would succeed at subjects I felt of value to me, and the others... I tend to just drop out. I found them to be very closed minded institutions that have this 'one way' of correct thinking and anything other than that was not accepted. I felt like a quitter and society made me feel like I was lazy, when in reality if I don't believe in something, I won't do it-- simple.

Now I have found my passion in life, which is permaculture design and reforestation, and don't see a need for a college degree. I'm a great self teacher and am taking video classes and once I'm done with that, take a hands on design course. I feel some pressure from others saying it's a 'wise' decision to have a college degree, so I would like to hear others' advice and experiences in regards to the necessity of college.

[Hototo]

A degree isn't for you. It helps others evaluate you more efficiently. If that is good depends on your individual distortions.

[Adonai One]

Its necessity is dependent on what one wishes to manifest through their life. Society, as it stands, highly values such credentials but of course there are an infinite number of pathes.

[Plenum]

this is sort of tangential, but relevant, so I hope you can stay with me.

in Australia, students are both subsidized (the courses are charged for less than they cost to provide, the government picking up the difference), and the charges for courses are offered as student loans by default (so you can start studying straight away, without ever paying a dollar).

this 'easy access' to college/university education is both an opportunity and a bit of a life trap.

it is an opportunity is the sense that if you have decent grades from high school, then the finance side of things should not restrict one from pursuing qualifications/education. You still need the marks to get into the relevant institution/course, but there is great equity there. Merit can carry you through (rather than needing a well off family to pay your way).

the downside is that college becomes a bit of a default option for people leaving school. Instead of taking a hard look at what they want to do in life, or getting some real life experience by working in some entry level job, or travelling/working, experiencing the 'reality of life', people just end up going to university. And they are quite often undecided and unpassionate about what they do. They take the degree that seems to fit them best, or which they have *some* interest in ... but it's just coasting really.

I've seen it in many young people, and even made that mistake myself, although I bailed (dropped out) after one year because what I was studying was really not for me.

The biggest error seems to be going through the whole 3/4 years, getting that 'coveted' degree, then getting into the industry and really getting a wake-up call of not liking it. And then these individuals (of which I've met maybe 3-4 just in the last couple of years) go back! to university, and study for another three years! That's cool, it's their life choice, but so often, even that second degree is not something they have a 'life connection' to ... it's just another stopgap measure from really figuring out or finding what they want out of life.

and these people ... sometimes they are working, sometimes they are not ... but they end up either living at home or relying on their parents for some support which really delays the entry into adulthood and taking full responsibility for one's life. I will say though, most of these career students do end up working part-time, so they don't avoid the hard edge of life entirely.

but yeah, study (ie college) can become a way of avoiding making any real decisions about one's life.

- -

past a certain point, people will hire on the basis of first-hand experience (ie someone who has worked in the industry) regardless of any qualifications or not. In the real word, experience (good experience) and expertise trumps any test scores you may or may not have had.

- -

and of course, there's a big shake up of the further education sector via MOOC's (massive open online course). Things like Coursera and Udacity and what-not.

[C-JEAN]

Hi MarcRammer.

College: Is it really necessary?

If you will be working in a company that "think" it's important, YES.
If you will not be. . . B-)
. . .but, will you be later ? B-)

It was for me, having been a "mechanical designer".

Blue skies.

[Monica]

For those who are certain as to what they want to do, and their career is one that requires a set education, such as law, medicine, etc. and they want to be part of the system, then yes. It's impossible to become an MD or attorney without a college education.

But for many, if not most, other careers, a college education is no longer a good investment. Many college graduates are $100k in debt and can only get jobs paying about $40k/year. That is, IF they can even find a job in their field at all!

[Hototo]

Self employed is the way to go in all except high degree requirement jobs (such as IT/Education ETC.)

[AnthroHeart]

I got my masters degree but it hasn't really helped at my current job. I went in with a bachelor's.

[reeay]

Seems like you are an independent type learner, e.g.,self-motivated. Findings jobs or educational programs is somewhat like finding a marriage partner. Ideally there is a good-fit with what is important for both of you. We all learn in different ways. Perhaps finding the optimal learning environment may help e.g., learning on-the-job, or classroom setting+apprenticeship, or independent studies, etc.

University-level studies is an option based on personal/professional goals, which is an open option for the rest of one's life.

Being a mature student/adult-learner is also an enriching experience, if you decide to go to school later on. Having life & work experience is valuable in programs for adult learners - that intersection between knowledge and real life experience makes for a real fascinating learning experience. Adult learning programs emphasize life experience as an important part of learning, thus, they tend to be less about boring one-way lectures and more about learning from each other. Adult learning programs typically respect and highly value one's life experiences, thus they want to create an environment where knowledge is shared, while also balancing this with theoretical/technical learning. But these things may differ, program by program.

Is the issue around dropping out part of a deeper issue? You're in your early 20s right?

[Marc]

Thank you all for your responses and insights.

I don't desire to be a part of the system, but rather live apart from it. The paper means nothing to me, only being knowledgable about my passion and doing it effectively does. As Not Sure pointed out, the degree is for others, not me.

I do desire to learn, but rather not get caught up in a dependence on the system (debt). I think I will learn using free or relatively cheap classes from podcasts, and other new ways of education.

My goal in life (permaculture design) only requires experiance and knowledge of natural systems and all the knowledge I need can be found on the Internet.

Is the issue around dropping out part of a deeper issue? You're in your early 20s right?

It most likely is a deeper issue: I am not very compatible with artificial and closed-minded systems. In my schoolhood I was in about 10 different schools and homeschooled much. And everytime I had a SAT or other test I scored in the 99th percentile.

It may also have to do with me not being grounded, but why would I want to be grounded in a disconcerting environment?

And yes, I'm only 21. I have much to learn in life still...

[xise]

You are very wise for 21!

[reeay]

That seeking begins with a single step in the pathless land, and you probably made that step!

[Xenos]

I understand you Xise, for having that feeling where post-secondary education seems very artificial and pointless sometimes.

I am 21 as well, and I'm currently in my 4th year studying in the health-sciences field.
College/University and such... they seem like a double edged sword to me. It offers advantages where you enable yourself to "fit" into society and have the credentials for it. However, becoming part of that system doesn't feel spiritually/emotionally/mentally good at all. Neither does it actually yield you a job for sure, the way the economy and such has changed now really makes this "traditional" education system dysfunctional.
Before entering university, I was so spiritually/mentally "awake" with the people around me and the surroundings. But being taught to think in a certain way for 3 years certainly takes a toll, I've lost many abilities. It's not that bad though I guess since learning about cellular life and chemistry really highlights the principles and fractals of oneness that nature perfectly symbolizes. I try to utilize my summer breaks to recharge my spirits

Ultimately though, I take it as a learning process. I realized that to sustain myself in this physical 3-D world and my loved ones, it was best for me to enter university and receive the credentials (in my circumstances). Its a catalyst for me as well, sometimes you have to face the things you hate and make it become a part of you to conquer it. Also, I do have intentions on entering the medical profession to radiate the love and light that the world and LOO has taught me.

Its ones choice after all. Simply listen to your heart and see where it takes you. And when I mean listen, listen in the absence of bias and thoughts.
Meditation is best for that stuff

[ChickenInSpace]

I used university as a spiritual springboard. As long as initial mindset is right/strong then very little detrimental effects are found. It's an excellent opportunity to immerse yourselves with extracurricular studies and quirks

[Monica]

Business Insider: College students crushed by debt

[native]

What it comes down to is that we've lost sight of the value of hard work, and the effort that is required as part of existence. So our lives have become less practical and unnecessary. Nurture, build, fix, and maintain. If you have any kind of skill that relates to day to day living, you will always have an important functional role within society. Most people I know that went into a trade because they didn't have college potential are married, own a house, and are doing well, while many of the college graduates have nothing to speak of. Many people can't fix or build anything, so we're severely disconnected from real life. As the older generations retire there is going to be a huge gap to fill.

Because of the rate of growth, the planetary mind seems to have a quick feedback system. Our problems are nothing new, just amplified. Our parents and grandparents worked hard and naturally sought a certain level of comfort and a way out from under the bottom. Those are illusory concerns though, as the self is still being directed inward rather than towards the collective. So you get the mess we have in a short period of time because the lesson isn't being grasped. The great thing is it creates a ripe condition for service, and rebuilding (healing) can begin. Many intuitively know this, and are drawn towards a more practical way of living. The problem is many want to retreat and start over, but the point is to go towards all the issues.

[reeay]

Business Insider: College students crushed by debt

I believe it's called the College Industrial Complex now. lol

[christine10]

He seems to have some pretty strong feelings about it, doesnt he!!

[Hototo]

*points up*

Said one of the inventors of the atomic bomb. Not sure if Not Sure likes this example.

[Plenum]

Albert!

[Hototo]

Albert!

Uncle OneRock

[Eddie]

I wouldn't trade my college experience for anything. Quite apart from the academics, the personal growth I experienced, and the friends I made, are priceless.

[Daydreamin]

Throughout my life I've never really knew what I was going to do with my life and I started of college classes here and there. But everytime, I would succeed at subjects I felt of value to me, and the others... I tend to just drop out. I found them to be very closed minded institutions that have this 'one way' of correct thinking and anything other than that was not accepted. I felt like a quitter and society made me feel like I was lazy, when in reality if I don't believe in something, I won't do it-- simple.

Now I have found my passion in life, which is permaculture design and reforestation, and don't see a need for a college degree. I'm a great self teacher and am taking video classes and once I'm done with that, take a hands on design course. I feel some pressure from others saying it's a 'wise' decision to have a college degree, so I would like to hear others' advice and experiences in regards to the necessity of college.

No it's a joke and I am glad I graduated w/ a degree from Mizzou in Finance and minors in Poly Sci, Sociology, & Spanish just so I can speak from experience that colleges have OFFICIALLY priced themselves out of importance. I 'was' headed to law school to be a lawyer to be a Politician to 'change the game' but I was done w/ the b.s. schooling and didn't want more debt.


It is a joke that we don't do apprenticeships and we all waste so much time and energy on meaningless b.s.

[Spaced]

I didn't finish college and yet I continue to exist, therefore I do not think it is necessary.

[Daydreamin]

I wouldn't trade my college experience for anything. Quite apart from the academics, the personal growth I experienced, and the friends I made, are priceless.

I agree Eddie that the 'personal growth' is the best part of college but I could of 'grown' just as much spending 4 years traveling I suppose? Or at least not spent the time accumulating so much debt.

[Plenum]

I agree Eddie that the 'personal growth' is the best part of college but I could of 'grown' just as much spending 4 years traveling I suppose? Or at least not spent the time accumulating so much debt.

how much debt do you have?

[Marc]

It is a joke that we don't do apprenticeships and we all waste so much time and energy on meaningless b.s.

Yea! Whatever happened to apprenticeship? That's the way it used to be...

[Plenum]

It is a joke that we don't do apprenticeships and we all waste so much time and energy on meaningless b.s.

Yea! Whatever happened to apprenticeship? That's the way it used to be...

haha. things were always 'better' in the old days

such is the effect of nolstalgia.