The Harvest that didn't happen?

[Monica]

Questions about the Harvest that Didn't Happen? Post them here and I'll ask Carla and Jim tonight.

[Jeremy]

Generally I'm working so it was nice to listen live. Very intuitive show tonight. It really reinforced my belief that the harvest was gradual instead of abrupt.

I thought of a question right as you were wrapping up so maybe it can come up at a later point or maybe it already has in the past. I'm trying to introduce my 5 year old daughter to spirituality much to the chagrin of my ex and I started reading mountains meadows and moonbeams to her but would really like a version geared more towards the Law of One.

I was wondering if Carla has ever thought of a children's version so that we as parents could find a better way to impress such a linguistically challenging philosophy to such young ears

[Aaron]

Moderator notice: Discussion about Dec. 21st and the Harvest event that did or did not happen should be made in the following thread: 12/21/2012: David Wilcock, Harvest, Ra, New Age Gurus. What does it all mean?

The current thread that you are reading now is reserved for submitting questions to Carla for the radio show about the Dec. 21 event and Harvest.

Thanks!

[Tenet Nosce]

The more interesting, and relevant, question in my mind is to elucidate the tenuous link between David Wilcock's concept of "ascension" and what was actually said in the Ra material. There seems to be a big question mark as to how this link was made, and why it was never openly refuted by L/L Research.

As near as I can discern, more details on the nature of the relationship between L/L and DW circa 1996 when the "spinoff" into Ascension2000.com occurred may shed some light on how such a distorted interpretation of the Ra Material became injected into the mass consciousness. However, it also appears that, for personal reasons, this information is "off limits" for public consumption.

We might just have to accept that we will never know. But if you are willing to ask, this is the line of inquiry I would suggest.

[Monica]

The more interesting, and relevant, question in my mind is to elucidate the tenuous link between David Wilcock's concept of "ascension" and what was actually said in the Ra material. There seems to be a big question mark as to how this link was made, and why it was never openly refuted by L/L Research.

As near as I can discern, more details on the nature of the relationship between L/L and DW circa 1996 when the "spinoff" into Ascension2000.com occurred may shed some light on how such a distorted interpretation of the Ra Material became injected into the mass consciousness. However, it also appears that, for personal reasons, this information is "off limits" for public consumption.

We might just have to accept that we will never know. But if you are willing to ask, this is the line of inquiry I would suggest.

OK got it! I usually avoid mentioning other channels by name, but I can get the point across without doing so.

Also, I did hear the term back in the 80s, when books about 'Ascended Masters' were in vogue.

[Tenet Nosce]

OK got it! I usually avoid mentioning other channels by name, but I can get the point across without doing so.

Yes, I understand it is a sensitive subject. But if we are to actually learn something from the whole experience, it could be beneficial to know how it actually occurred.

The interesting thing to me is that, with the Ra contact, from the very beginning they talked about how their messages were twisted and distorted by the people again and again.

Well... it appears to have happened yet again! So that is the dynamic I would be interested to hear some insight on. Not so much- who did what and finger pointing and things like that. But... WOW... let's take a wide-eyed look at how the Ra Material became twisted -yet again- into a false prophecy about 2012. Why does this keep happening? Is it just the Law of Confusion kicking in, and there is nothing we can do about it?

[Monica]

OK got it! I usually avoid mentioning other channels by name, but I can get the point across without doing so.

Yes, I understand it is a sensitive subject. But if we are to actually learn something from the whole experience, it could be beneficial to know how it actually occurred.

The interesting thing to me is that, with the Ra contact, from the very beginning they talked about how their messages were twisted and distorted by the people again and again.

Well... it appears to have happened yet again! So that is the dynamic I would be interested to hear some insight on. Not so much- who did what and finger pointing and things like that. But... WOW... let's take a wide-eyed look at how the Ra Material became twisted -yet again- into a false prophecy about 2012. Why does this keep happening? Is it just the Law of Confusion kicking in, and there is nothing we can do about it?

Ah, ok I get the gist of your question!

[βαθμιαίος]

The more interesting, and relevant, question in my mind is to elucidate the tenuous link between David Wilcock's concept of "ascension" and what was actually said in the Ra material. There seems to be a big question mark as to how this link was made, and why it was never openly refuted by L/L Research.

What kind of open refutation are you thinking of?

As near as I can discern, more details on the nature of the relationship between L/L and DW circa 1996 when the "spinoff" into Ascension2000.com occurred may shed some light on how such a distorted interpretation of the Ra Material became injected into the mass consciousness. However, it also appears that, for personal reasons, this information is "off limits" for public consumption.

Did Carla and Jim know David in 1996?

[hogey11]

let's take a wide-eyed look at how the Ra Material became twisted -yet again- into a false prophecy about 2012.

I am not sure there is a 'false prophecy' here except by those who blatantly claimed we'd "ascend" on December 21st, 2012. At the time that David was saying such things, many of us were saying such things (independent of his influence). As we came closer and closer to the window, everyone started adjusting their viewpoints toward a gradual shift (just like David did). The reality is that until we find ourselves in these spaces, we can only work with our understandings and distortions.

I think the 'prophecy' aspect really got played on because the world is not working as intended and it's getting worse in certain ways that we can see very clearly. It is also getting better in many ways that we cannot easily see happen. I think the reasons the prophecy aspect as so played up was because we are hitting a social and cultural wall in many respects. People expected a 'shift' because we need one; the way we are living on this planet is not resonating with the mass consciousness. Therefore, there is a calling for a 'shift' of sorts to make things right. This is not new in history; there are both tipping points and breaking points that have been played out many times before. As much as many would like to be diminuitive towards these things, labeling them as conspiracy or what-have-you, the reality is that our economic and social systems are not perfect. We should not shoo away those who are trying to bring that to light. Instead, we should empower them to make real changes with real consequences that can be enjoyed.

This whole 12/21/2012 may end up being a major 'wake up' point in humanities story. Just like the revolutions found in our history didn't happen on a single day or moment to occur, we may look back 25 years from now and say 'that's where we turned the corner and started to do things that make sense." And if that is the case, it will have been amazing to watch. That is the point of harvest, for myself - the turning of a chapter... and in my experience the start of most chapters are not always that exciting. Sometimes you gotta wait for things to heat up.

[Tenet Nosce]

What kind of open refutation are you thinking of?

It could have taken many forms- and maybe it did and I just don't know about it. But all it would require is a statement that certain ideas that were being promoted as having a basis in the Ra Material, did not in fact have such a basis.

The Ra material talks about harvest. It talks about the 30-year period after 1981, following which the "inconveniences" would cease and the "quantum leap" would occur.

Some of these ideas were incorporated into the notion of "ascension." This, in itself, is fine. What isn't fine is wherein certain ideas that were not present in the Ra Material were attributed to it.

Again- L/L may have made the distinction clear, and I am just not aware of it. But I am thinking of the perspective of those who come to the Ra Material, having taken at face value that it says certain things which it does not.

As near as I can discern, more details on the nature of the relationship between L/L and DW circa 1996 when the "spinoff" into Ascension2000.com occurred may shed some light on how such a distorted interpretation of the Ra Material became injected into the mass consciousness. However, it also appears that, for personal reasons, this information is "off limits" for public consumption.

Did Carla and Jim know David in 1996?

I think so..? Maybe they didn't, but he was talking about the Ra Material back in 1996, perhaps he didn't actually meet Carla and Jim until later. This is from a 2006 post from DW:


http://divinecosmos.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-8398.html

any researcher trying to draw comparisons between my life and those of the Law of One team, be advised... i was the first person to live in don elkins' room after he committed suicide, nearly 20 years later. i pick up all the energies off of the areas i sleep in whether i want to or not. i slept on the "ra bed" that the original Law of One readings were done off of for the first month i was there. all the frozen suicide thoughtforms in don's room greeted me very strongly - the second or third night i slept in there i had a terrifying dream where gov. spooks shot my head off and i was in my astral body, trying to move my arms to feel if i still had a head. i didn't even take don's original decorations off the wall and repaint to claim the room as my own until a month into the process.

If he slept in the room 20 years later... then I guess the experience discussed here happened circa 2004. So maybe he didn't know them before that.

---

I am not sure there is a 'false prophecy' here except by those who blatantly claimed we'd "ascend" on December 21st, 2012.

That is, itself, the false prophecy. Along with all the other things that were supposed to happen along with "ascension." Backing away from a false prophecy does not abrogate responsibility for issuing it in the first place.

What you said was: There was no false prophecy, except for the false prophecy. What does that even mean?

People expected a 'shift' because we need one

People (including myself) expected a "shift" because they were too lazy or unwilling to do the work themselves. Or perhaps because once it was seen how much work really needed to be done, it appeared overwhelming and impossible.

Later on, some of us realized that the shift is something that happens through us, not to us. And so we began the slow, uncomfortable, and painstaking work of removing the inner obstacles to such a shift. Others took it as an excuse to continue to be lazy and not do the inner work, and expecting something else (the photon belt, ascension, Nibiru, Elenin, aliens, lightworkers, etc.) to do the work for them.

Thus far, it would appear that those who have decided to do the inner work are still doing inner work, while those who have decided NOT to do the inner work, are still NOT doing it.

If anything has indeed shifted, it is such that doing the inner work will be easier for those who are willing to make a continuous effort to grow in consciousness. For those who make no such efforts, any such shift is only theoretical and has no practical value.

[hogey11]

Backing away from a false prophecy does not abrogate responsibility for issuing it in the first place.

What responsibility? What did anybody force you to do? Why are we to be 'held responsible' for sharing our thoughts?

What does that even mean?

What you see as 'false prophecy', I see as 'zealous interest'. There are always those who are going to push ideas and concepts to the edges of reason; in this way, I don't find as much fault when somebody backs off a certain idea or concept because the whole idea in general is risky. I expect it, to a degree. I agree that this should be communicated more clearly maybe... but that is people's catalyst to work with and through. If people are going to fall so hard for it, i'm sure there are lessons to learn there. There's value in almost everything.

Thus far, it would appear that those who have decided to do the inner work are still doing inner work, while those who have decided NOT to do the inner work, are still NOT doing it.

Without the December 21st, 2012 meme, i'm not sure I would have 'switched over' from one camp to the other. How many who expected great changes are going to leave the world of distractions and instead just focus on their own life and setting for the next few months? I'd guess a good chunk of them. I know some people will forever see David as a pied piper of fools, but I like being a fool, so I argue for it. Maybe i'm unique in that I can keep it on an 'entertainment' level rather than getting too caught up in it, but I think people are more reasonable than the critics like to think. We all handle things differently. I have relatives that are two sides of the coin; both are completely unrealistic, but one gets upset and the other just accepts it. I think we need to refrain from trying to lay too much blame for the passage we've taken. Like you have said, what matters is where we go and what we do NOW and moving forward.

[Tenet Nosce]

Backing away from a false prophecy does not abrogate responsibility for issuing it in the first place.

What responsibility? What did anybody force you to do? Why are we to be 'held responsible' for sharing our thoughts?

hogey- Will you do us both a favor and read my posts more closely? It really seems to me like you skim them, read something into them that isn't there, and then we have to go back and talk about what I didn't say, rather than what I did say. I mean this in the friendliest way possible.

Did you issue a prophecy? No. Did I issue a prophecy? No. We are two dudes talking about prophecies in a web forum. I would hope nobody is taking either of us that seriously.

Others did issue prophecies. And for those who did, backing away from them at the last minute does not abrogate responsibility for issuing them in the first place. That's what I was saying.

What you see as 'false prophecy', I see as 'zealous interest'.

You can see it however you like. But what is the purpose in the constant redefining of terms? Don't you see that this only causes confusion?

There is nothing esoteric or even philosophical about a false prophecy. It is simply making a statement that X will happen, and then it does not. That is a false prophecy. Could be about anything. Could be about a football game, or the weather.

False prophecies happen all the time. The question is: Why when prophecies inevitably fail do people continue to issue false prophecies instead of ceasing making prophecies altogether? And why do others continue to believe in false prophets, even after they are proven wrong time and again?

Without the December 21st, 2012 meme, i'm not sure I would have 'switched over' from one camp to the other. How many who expected great changes are going to leave the world of distractions and instead just focus on their own life and setting for the next few months?

Well, that's all fine and dandy. But wouldn't you say something is amiss when people require being lied to and made false promises to in order to start working on themselves? If you think about this closely- you might find that there is a very thin line here that leads to a slippery slope into a path that you may not wish to be on.

Lying and making false promises to people... for "their own good". The ends justify the means? I say no, they don't. Because if the whole thing is born of a lie, then anything that comes from it is also a lie. No spiritual growth can come from dishonesty.

Like you have said, what matters is where we go and what we do NOW and moving forward.

Yes. But how is this different from any other day? The fact is- it isn't any different. And that is the lesson.

[βαθμιαίος]

Again- L/L may have made the distinction clear, and I am just not aware of it. But I am thinking of the perspective of those who come to the Ra Material, having taken at face value that it says certain things which it does not.

I did a search for "ascension" at llresearch.org and found a few things.

http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/is..._0204.aspx

The concept of ascension is a concept that we have found largely within your cultures’ Christian belief systems. The beliefs vary, but the basic commonality of this idea centers upon the concept of some entities being physically removed from the surface of the Earth to safe places at a time when the remainder of the population of the Earth will be destroyed by the end of the world or some other version of the apocalypse, whether the cause of it be man or spirit. It is not our understanding that this concept is a helpful one spiritually. It is not our opinion that this is the way things work in any physical sense. In our opinion the processes of ascension or harvest are subsumed within the process of moving through the physical death and entrance into larger life, as this instrument would put it.

http://www.llresearch.org/interviews/int..._0929.aspx

Recently we stared getting a wave of fourth-density wanderers. And guess where they’re coming from Lance? They’re coming from Earth.

Lance: Oh really?

Carla: These are the people who’ve already graduated. They’ve gotten to the end of their lives, they’ve died a natural death, which I think is what ascension actually is. They walk what the Ra groups describes as steps of light, every step of light being a little bit more dense with light, dense with information.

http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/is..._0219.aspx

In this instrument’s mind, we find the word “ascension” to have connotations of confusion and chaos. This, my friends, is because as long as spiritual texts have been offered to the people of your planet, the subject of ascension has been one that is held in heavy dispute. Depending upon the way one’s culture works, ascension may or may not be a part of the tenets of the religion of the culture. It may or may not be the way that particular religious or philosophical system describes spiritual advancement. Therefore, there is a certain amount of emotion that clusters around this concept and tends to create a situation in which it is difficult to speak about the subject without exciting emotion.

http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/is..._0120.aspx

This will not occur suddenly in terms of there being a necessity for a sudden change of third to fourth density. Rather, there will be a time of between one and three hundred of your years, from the probability/possibility vortices at which we now look, where your peoples will be able to continue to incarnate in third density to continue to heal the planet and to harvest those entities who are ready now to choose light over darkness, love over fear, and the lessons of the compassionate heart over the lessons of self interest. These are the cycles that we see at this time.

http://www.llresearch.org/interviews/int..._0118.aspx

We had better get to some questions. The first question is, “What do you think that ascension will be like? Carla, you’re my guest. You can go first.

Carla: All right. Ascension is a big buzzword. And, like most buzzwords, it has come to mean less than it should. There’s a lot of fear involved in it. I wrote a series [of articles] on 2012 recently in my column, which you can get from “Carla’s Niche” by going to www.llresearch.org, or www.bring4th.org. It was a good series, I think. It had four or five parts. You might want to take it in, because it probably covers the subject better than I can in ten or fifteen minutes with Wynn here.

Long story short, I believe that ascension or harvest or graduation is going to be individual. It’s going to be at the end of our natural lives, when we pass from the physical and drop our physical bodies. I believe that we will then move into our spiritual bodies. I think for ascension you move into the violet-ray body. The violet-ray body is the read-out of the whole energy body. So you move into that body and you are in a place that is in time/space.

http://www.religionandspirituality.com/v...027517671/

2012 is significant in the Confederation information not as a time of abrupt Ascension nor as an Armageddon that wipes out Planet Earth, but as that moment in time when it will become virtually impossible to do further work in refining our choice of polarity. Like oil and water, third-density and fourth-density vibrations will begin to pull apart. It is already far more difficult to begin to polarize now than, say fifty years ago. Fourth-density waves of truth have interpenetrated third density more and more. All the issues with which we have avoided working until now are coming up in our lives and smacking us in the face. It is time to face these issues. It is time to fall in love with ourselves.

http://www.religionandspirituality.com/v...631057491/

Beginning with Part Three of this series, I will talk about the Confederation view of how to prepare for 2012. Their suggestions are based upon our understanding of death as an event which engenders no fear, hence my work in this present article as I try to bring you to a more realistic connection with how you feel about your coming death. Fear plays no part in the Confederation cosmology! Let it play no part in ours!

I open my arms and embrace your spirit! Let us be fearless before the prospect of our deaths, and fearless alike before the prospect of our continued lives within the veil of our present incarnations! Let us rise to meet what comes with hope and faith, and go forth into the passion play of life in joy and thanksgiving! I walk with you into the adventures which lie ahead!

---

If he slept in the room 20 years later... then I guess the experience discussed here happened circa 2004. So maybe he didn't know them before that.

Yeah, that's more the time frame that I had thought.

[hogey11]

Yes. But how is this different from any other day? The fact is- it isn't any different. And that is the lesson.

Ah, but it is a day after 12/21/2012. I think there is useful experience in the event regardless of what manifested. Many on the forum are asking 'what date comes next? Who's going to start selling the next session of bullshit?' and that's a valuable thing to be asking right now. For those who went down to the last day promising 'ascension', they will have to deal with their aftermath and those that followed them will deal with their own disappointment.

Look at the positive side! There haven't been any 'cult meltdowns' or anything negative that has manifested through this event (apparently). Unless, of course, we count discontent in the 'lightworker' community, but all of that catalyst is required, imo.

I'm not really arguing with you too much, Tenet, i'm just saying that some of these people might have been genuine in their understandings. If that's the case and they come to a realization in a different direction, I think we should accept that and let them move beyond it. David wasn't among the folk promising ascension in the weeks before December 21st; I don't think he should be painted as such, but thats just me

[Steppingfeet]

TN, as it seems your question moved beyond being just a submission to the radio program and has evolved into discussion, I offered you a response here if interested. : ) GLB

[Charles]

So was that (these) question(s) asked and answered?

For those of us who did not listen to the radio broadcast (what times, dates, and station numbers, and AM or FM?) . . .

Why don't you share the answers here?

Delighted that some of us are helpful for you, Monica. How about returning the favor?

[Monica]

So was that (these) question(s) asked and answered?

Yes.

For those of us who did not listen to the radio broadcast (what times, dates, and station numbers, and AM or FM?) . . .

Bring4th Forums Two > Discussion/Q&A with Carla L. Rueckert v > Submitting Questions for "In the Now - Q&A with Carla L. Rueckert"

Why don't you share the answers here?

Because:

1. I don't have time to transcribe everything that Carla and Jim say on the radio show. That's what the radio show is for!

and

2. I put all the topics covered each week into an index.

Delighted that some of us are helpful for you, Monica. How about returning the favor?

[ChickenInSpace]

Are the audio-files kept somewhere? Can we seed them via torrent if upload service is expensive?

[Charles]

Oh, honestly WensellSype, maybe it’s fun for you to just insert inexplicable nonsense, or maybe you’re paid to do this, or (and for your sake, the best explanation) maybe you’re paid to have this fun.


Or perhaps English is a second language for you, and you just don’t know how to write it.   

On this site we use brains and hearts to do our best to make clear sense by writing sentences that actually convey meaning.

I will probably just not read you again, but I do wish you well with patience, and humor, but also with zero understanding of your purpose here. 

[Bring4th_Austin]

Oh, honestly WensellSype, maybe it’s fun for you to just insert inexplicable nonsense, or maybe you’re paid to do this, or (and for your sake, the best explanation) maybe you’re paid to have this fun.


Or perhaps English is a second language for you, and you just don’t know how to write it.   

On this site we use brains and hearts to do our best to make clear sense by writing sentences that actually convey meaning.

I will probably just not read you again, but I do wish you well with patience, and humor, but also with zero understanding of your purpose here. 

It was most likely a robot programmed to spam forums like that. It is very kind of you to wish such a being well, but he has been sent to the banzone, along with the other massive wave of spammers that appeared overnight.