12/21/2012: David Wilcock, Harvest, Ra, New Age Gurus. What does it all mean?

[ƒ❤losopher]

Felix Meyer - Zeiten Großer Worte (Times of Grand Words)

My head once again out of the noose
And what was else of importance,
All billows almost shallow and flat,
A battlefield strangely banal.
Sorrows dissolve in tears
And get lost at the horizon.
And for the next step gets at once
Tonight born a new day.

The times of grand words are over.
What's missing here, is the work on the detail.

The head is like Tweedledum and TV,
The remainder of the body turns to stone.
What may they have had to listen to again,
To be present at all.
Hopes dissolve in tears
And get lost in the commercial break.
A hero of the suburb has been once again
chosen to be the great Zampano.

The times of grand words are over.
What you lack is the love to detail.
The times of grand words are over.
What's missing here, is the work on the detail.

The head is a head is a head is a head - the body
mostly here to carry it into the world.
Many heads give constantly wrong answers,
Only rarely they ever pose the right questions.
Thoughts dissolve in the ocean
And get muddled by time.
In the best case a trifle remains betimes,
The grand words they get lost.

The times of grand words are over.
What you lack is the love to detail.
The times of grand words are over.
What's missing here, is the work on the detail.

***

Yes, a part of me was disappointed.
Keep on living or rather vegetating in a state that allows only fluctuating participation in life?
'Ascension symptoms, eh?', the inner cynic jeers. 'Didn't I tell you all the time that this was utter nonsense?'
But there was also relief. More shots at life, love and carnal pleasures, after all.

The thing is, I can't take all these thoughts and 'I-lets' serious any more. Especially since about 12-12-12 I've noticed a new level of non-attachment in me. Also, I live ever more spontaneous. And while I do set some intentions for a 3D future (have to start over again, since I began to live off of my savings 21 months ago in order to transcend my survival fears) there is a tremendous trust that all will work out whether my intentions manifest or not.
And at least currently I find it quite easy to tune into this presence of whispering serenity.


So, what does it all mean?
The only thing I can say is that there are developments within me and also in my outer experience that I can only term in this way. I get more and more lost on the way to Unity Consciousness.

If that's what's supposed to be ascension or harvest, it's fine with me. Levitating and everything else is a more than welcome bonus, though

[BrownEye]

O rly??? :p

It has been between 10-18 years since any drugs or drinking for either of us. We have gone almost the full route of cleanup.

[Jeremy]

Something has been different for the passed few days and it finally dawned on me today while doing the Christmas thing with my family. It was MUCH more joyful than years past. People genuinely looked like they wanted to be there and we all actually got along the entire time which is a rarity.

I also started thinking about how much more open and happy I have been at work. I'm always friendly and compassionate to the patients I X-ray but I have been much more sociable to all my coworkers with an almost constant smile which is rare because generally I'm deep in thought and people always ask me what's wrong.

Now I'm greeting people and actually interacting much more than before. I don't know if its more of a conscious effort on my part or not but I'm definitely much more at peace and dare I say happy lately.

[Meerie]

Agree with you Xradfl, family Xmas was rather harmonious this year, even my grumpy uncle was joking and cheerful.
On friday 21 I felt peaceful and relaxed throughout the day.
In the morning when I stood outside, I noticed the sky was violet and in the neighboring house four windows were lit, in the colors ranging from red orange yellow and the last one was green.
As I stood there watching the thought "we made it" entered my mind.


some further info here:


  227069_460386600688200_1863711557_n.jpg (Size: 35.26 KB / Downloads: 423)

[Jeremy]

Since I'm fairly new, I'm not sure how involved they are in regards to other channels and the entities that they channel but given the fact that most if not all popular channels indicated some type of physical event, could it have been been purely metaphysical instead?

If it was supposed be physical along with metaphysical how could something so paramount to so many channels especially as the date neared been incorrect?

As far as the date of harvest was concerned, Ra kept stating that the harvest was soon as far back as the 80's and most entities Carla channelled post Ra stated soon or that it draws near. Is it possible that most channelled entities just can't fathom our concept of time?

[kdsii]

I was bummed that the 'striking of the hour' came and went so uneventfully.
I didn't expect some rapture or cataclysm, but come on...
I looked forward to Ra's statement about this momentary opening to intelligent infinity. It just sounded like something that you'd know, when it happens.
But, nothing.
Makes you feel duped, in a way.

[Conifer16]

I have always understood the Harvest to be after natural death. Meaning not going to happen till I leave this body. Wasn't bothered in the least that there did not seem to be any physical event on the 21st. Oh, and I don't remember Ra ever saying the 21st.... Didn't they just say around the year 2012? The 21st was just all the Mayan hype being connected to Ra, right?

[Ankh]

65.9 Moreover, it must be, in our humble opinion, carefully taken into consideration that any time/space viewing, whether by one of your time/space or by one such as we who view the time/space from a dimension, shall we say, exterior to it will have a quite difficult time expressing time measurement values.

Thank you for this quote, Confused! I had a feeling that it was something like that in regards to Ra's difficulty with measuring our time, but didn't have any quote for that. This one sentence kind of slipped my eye. Thank you!

Guys that is why I actually wonder, that Ra gave a date at all, referring to harvest in 2011?

Thank you for this question, Meerie! I was meaning to dive into this topic myself since the missed big event of the date of Dec 21, proceeded some people sometimes talking poop about Ra, but didn't have time until now.

This is the result of my so far research on what Ra exactly said in regards to Harvest and 2011:

The quote in question here is 17:29. In this session Don and Ra talk about all kind of different things and in the middle of this session, 17, Don asks:

"Questioner: Am I to understand that the harvest is to occur in the year 2011, or will it be spread out?"

And Ra answers:

"Ra: I am Ra. This is an approximation. We have stated we have difficulty with your time/space. This is an appropriate probable/possible time/space nexus for harvest. Those who are not in incarnation at this time will be included in the harvest."

What proceeded this question? Did Ra give a date before this Q/A? I had to go back all the way to session 6 (!!) in order to trace where these "30 years" or year 2011 came from.

In Q/A 6:16 Don asks:

"Questioner: What is the position of this planet with respect to the progression of cycles at this time?"

And Ra answers:

"Ra: I am Ra. This sphere is at this time in fourth-dimension vibration. Its material is quite confused due to the society memory complexes embedded in its consciousness. It has not made an easy transition to the vibrations which beckon. Therefore, it will be fetched with some inconvenience."

Then Don asks:

"Questioner: Is this inconvenience imminent within a few years?"

And here is where the first mentioning of these 30 years is:

"Ra: I am Ra. This inconvenience, or disharmonious vibratory complex, has begun several of your years in the past. It shall continue unabated for a period of approximately three oh, thirty, of your years."

What are they talking about here? The inconvenience or disharmonious vibratory complex (!), which has begun several of our years ago, and will continue unabated for a period of approximately 30 of our years.

So in the next Q/A, Don asks:

"Questioner: After this period of thirty years I am assuming that this will be a fourth-density planet. Is this correct?"

And Ra's answer:

"Ra: I am Ra. This is so."

And then they start talking about all other kind of stuff all the way until Q/A 17:1 of which I will speak shortly.

In order to be sure, I have not only searched back personally through all the sessions, that this is what proceeded mentioned year of 2011, but also searched lawofone.info with keyword "thirty", which have these results:

Search results for "thirty"

Now, moving on to session 17 where this (only) mentioning of 2011 occurs. What happened there? What are they exactly talking about there? Well, it starts already in the first Q/A, 17:1, where Don asks:

"Questioner: Thank you very much. I would like to say again that we consider it a great honor, privilege, and duty to be able to do this particular work. I would like to reiterate that some of my questions may seem irrelevant at times, but I am trying to ask them in a manner so as to gain a foothold into the application of the Law of One.

We are now in the fourth density. Will the effects of the fourth density increase in the next thirty years? Will we see more changes in our environment and our effect upon our environment?"

To which Ra gives a rather long answer, where I have underlined important to our question parts:

"Ra: I am Ra. The fourth density is a vibrational spectrum. Your time/space continuum has spiraled your planetary sphere and your, what we would call galaxy, what you call star, into this vibration. This will cause the planetary sphere itself to electromagnetically realign its vortices of reception of the in-streaming of cosmic forces expressing themselves as vibrational webs so that the Earth will thus be fourth-density magnetized, as you might call it.

This is going to occur with some inconvenience, as we have said before, due to the energies of the thought-forms of your peoples which disturb the orderly constructs of energy pattern within your Earth spirals of energy which increases entropy and unusable heat. This will cause your planetary sphere to have some ruptures in its outer garment while making itself appropriately magnetized for fourth density. This is the planetary adjustment.

You will find a sharp increase in the number of people, as you call mind/body/spirit complexes, whose vibrational potentials include the potential for fourth-vibrational distortions. Thus, there will seem to be, shall we say, a new breed. These are those incarnating for fourth-density work.

There will also be a sharp increase in the short run of negatively oriented or polarized mind/body/spirit complexes and social complexes, due to the polarizing conditions of the sharp delineation between fourth-density characteristics and third-density self-service orientation.

Those who remain in fourth density upon this plane will be of the so-called positive orientation. Many will come from elsewhere, for it would appear that with all of the best efforts of the Confederation, which includes those from your peoples’ inner planes, inner civilizations, and those from other dimensions, the harvest will still be much less than that which this planetary sphere is capable of comfortably supporting in service."

What did Ra actually say here? Firstly, Ra speaks of the planetary adjustment. Then they speak of a sharp increase of what they call a new breed and then negatively polarized entities, and finally they talk about those who will remain upon this sphere, which I interpret as: when the Harvest is complete, those who will remain here, upon this sphere, will be those of positive orientation.

And then Don and Ra talk about bunch of other stuff til the Q/A 17:29 occurs. In this Q/A Don asks:

"Questioner: Am I to understand that the harvest is to occur in the year 2011, or will it be spread out?"

And Ra answers:

"Ra: I am Ra. This is an approximation. We have stated we have difficulty with your time/space. This is an appropriate probable/possible time/space nexus for harvest. Those who are not in incarnation at this time will be included in the harvest."

So, there will be inconviences, a sharp increase of positive people and negative people, and then a harvest, and finally those who will remain upon this sphere are those of fourth density positive vibration. Awesome! What is this Harvest then? And what will happen in 2011?

Before I continue, I would just like to draw attention to this 2011 quote again underlying one specific word:

"Ra: I am Ra. This is an approximation. We have stated we have difficulty with your time/space. This is an appropriate probable/possible time/space nexus for harvest. Those who are not in incarnation at this time will be included in the harvest."

Anywho, now that we know that all is possible/probable and an approximation, we move on to this Harvest.

In many other sources that I have read "Harvest" means ascension, mass landings of aliens and removing of the veil. These are quite drastic and dramatic scenarios considering that there are still people here who are making *the* choice. There is no choice if veil removes. There is no choice if there are mass landings of aliens. There is no choice if there is a massive ascension (whatever that means). What would be the point of having 75'000 years long third density experience if the culmination of it was not making that choice by yourself but something/someone else interfering making that choice for you? So I don't understand how people, knowing the Law of One, can logically consider such thing? But hey, personally I wouldn't mind mass landings of Confederation, veil removing and/or ascension (means to me awesome constant orgasms in higher density) either.

Back to topic and our question. What is the "Harvest"?

Hmpf... This is a difficult one to attempt to define but the only thing here that matters to us, that is important to our question, is that it seems that the Harvest is a time/space event.

It is of course a space/time event in terms of planetary adjustment, transition period and the future experience of fourth density mind/body/spirit complexes, but in regards to what happens to us, third density mind/body complexes, in the time of Harvest, which according to Ra, approximately occurs around year 2011, is, in my understanding and interpretation of the material, something that happens in time/space.

In Q/A 48:7 Ra says: "Upon the bodily complex death, as you call this transition, the entity will immediately, upon realization of its state, return to the indigo form-maker body and rest therein until the proper future placement is made.

Here we have the anomaly of harvest. In harvest the entity will then transfer its indigo body into violet-ray manifestation as seen in true-color yellow. This is for the purpose of gauging the harvestability of the entity. After this anomalous activity has been carefully completed, the entity will move into indigo body again and be placed in the correct true-color locus in space/time and time/space at which time the healings and learn/teachings necessary shall be completed and further incarnation needs determined."

To me, the above Q/A, clearly indicates that Ra says that the Harvest of a mind/body/spirit complex occurs only after the so called death of our physical, chemical, body, i.e. in time/space. If someone has a quote where it is stated that the Harvest of a mind/body/spirit complex is a space/time event, then please speak up. But seriously and logically - does anyone really think that the Harvest of us is going to occur while still in this heavy, chemical body complex?

Mind also the second half of the quote in question here in regards to year 2011: "Ra: I am Ra. This is an approximation. We have stated we have difficulty with your time/space. This is an appropriate probable/possible time/space nexus for harvest. Those who are not in incarnation at this time will be included in the harvest."

The above means that those who are not in incarnation when the Harvest occurs (around year 2011 or so) will nevertheless be subjects to the Harvest, because this Harvest is like striking of a clock upon the hour. That is why Ra gave this (approximate) date. Ra never mentioned mass landings of aliens though, or ascension, or veil removings. However, Ra did mention gradual transition period.

I interpret all that has been said above this far, as: The Harvest will begin approximately around year 2011. This Harvest is a time/space event, which means that all entities who will die after the year 2011 or so, will be subjects to the Harvest regardless of their personal circumstances (Ra, 9:3, 17:29, 48:7.). After this year or so, the transition period will begin, which will go on for 100-700 years (Ra, 40:8). During this transitional period there will be gradual, evolutionary process of body complexes by bisexual reproduction into full fourth density bodies (Ra, 65:25 & 65:27).

[quote='Confused' pid='110557' dateline='1356702134']
...Matthew Chapter 24 (KJV*) --

36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

I liked that! To me it says: no man and "no angel of heaven" can know when the Harvest will be, but the intelligent infinity.

[Monica]

Oh, and I don't remember Ra ever saying the 21st.... Didn't they just say around the year 2012? The 21st was just all the Mayan hype being connected to Ra, right?

I was just thinking that very thing. Most of the hype seems to have been from the Mayan Calendar, not from Ra. Although, Q'uo did mention 'Winter Solstice 2012' specifically. But then, in that same session, Q'uo also said our world could continue serenely.

[Conifer16]

Well there you go, there could still be some sort of Intelligent Infinity event of some sort in the next few years. Though it might be better if the individual went forth looking for Intelligent Infinity rather than waiting for an event. Not saying that you have just sat back and not tried @Kdsii it as just a thought that came to my mind as I thought about Intelligent Infinity. Which then has led to a thought about how prophecy and prediction tends to cause people to become lax in their seeking of truth and Love/Light as they start to wait for an outside force to complete some event for them. I love where random thoughts lead me :-)

[Parsons]

Yossarian, I know why you are(were?) angry about this whole situation. To a certain degree, I was angry as well. It's a difficult thing to admit when you were incorrect on top of believing information catered to 'what you want to hear', but that was the case with myself. I was as close to 'sure' about the 'abrupt harvest' as I could get. But to throw the baby out with the bath water by denying the whole 'new age movement'/channeling altogether is another thing entirely. I can especially understand being frustrated with 'new age gurus' as they are simply dogmatically interpretation information from other sources. Realizing they were just as likely to get something incorrect as anyone was a big step for me, although not a recent one.

I know it may make you angry to recieve advice, but the very nature of this thread cries out for service. When/if you are ready, you may want to check out the thread "Blessed Impetus" in this section of the forums. It helped me come to semi-cathartic closure to this chapter of my life and allowed me to finally plan for the next chapter. It also directly addresses what happened to the 'abrupt harvest'.

[Aaron]

I interpret all that has been said above this far, as: The Harvest will begin approximately around year 2011. This Harvest is a time/space event, which means that all entities who will die after the year 2011 or so, will be subjects to the Harvest regardless of their personal circumstances (Ra, 9:3, 17:29, 48:7.). After this year or so, the transition period will begin, which will go on for 100-700 years (Ra, 40:8). During this transitional period there will be gradual, evolutionary process of body complexes by bisexual reproduction into full fourth density bodies (Ra, 65:25 & 65:27).

I loved your post, Ankh. It gives a clear picture of where the 30 year and 2011 figures came from, and what Ra actually said about Harvest and about this date.

In regards to what you wrote above, the first half would happen in time/space, while the second half occurs in space/time, correct? i.e. The Harvest event where the entity judges its true color locus with the opportunity to place itself within the 4th density (if appropriate) occurs in time/space. The societal transition period and the birthing of 4th density mind/body complexes occurs in space/time.

Thanks for all the thought you put into this!

[Ankh]

I interpret all that has been said above this far, as: The Harvest will begin approximately around year 2011. This Harvest is a time/space event, which means that all entities who will die after the year 2011 or so, will be subjects to the Harvest regardless of their personal circumstances (Ra, 9:3, 17:29, 48:7.). After this year or so, the transition period will begin, which will go on for 100-700 years (Ra, 40:8). During this transitional period there will be gradual, evolutionary process of body complexes by bisexual reproduction into full fourth density bodies (Ra, 65:25 & 65:27).

I loved your post, Ankh. It gives a clear picture of where the 30 year and 2011 figures came from, and what Ra actually said about Harvest and about this date.

In regards to what you wrote above, the first half would happen in time/space, while the second half occurs in space/time, correct? i.e. The Harvest event where the entity judges its true color locus with the opportunity to place itself within the 4th density (if appropriate) occurs in time/space. The societal transition period and the birthing of 4th density mind/body complexes occurs in space/time.

Thanks for all the thought you put into this!

Thank you. And yes. Thank you for clarifying this.

[caycegal]

No other spiritual teacher that I am aware of has spoken about a "mass harvest." I understand you will be able to find some and quote them to me. My studies have centered on Edgar Cayce, Jane Roberts, Abraham, Jesus, the Buddha, Hinduism (Bhagavad Gita) the Tao-Te-Ching - that's about it, for the main influences.

Of course, there has been this recurring thread running through certain Christian communities of a mass harvest. (Judgment Day, Resurrection Day, etc.)

Cayce and Ra seem to me to have a lot of cross-over -- not the mass harvest idea, however. The main and most important similarity I find is the idea that God is ALL, God is Good, and yet there is also this struggle between self and service oriented groups being played out despite the fact that everything is GOOD.

From Hinduism and Buddhism I learned that individuals will "ascend" (become enlightened) when they have reached the point where they are ready for it. Then they may choose to move on or to stay in the earth planes to help others here.

I still think there may be some mass effect that we are creating that will move more individuals faster into the group of the aware and will create more astounding changes for us all.

So to sum up, it's all about the individual/ all about the group/ about us all. Anything could happen. It's exciting, it's fun, it's all about love.

[C-JEAN]

Hi

As said above, if I also remember well,
Ra NEVER talked about "2012 december 21" ! !

He/they talked about a period of "inconveniences", and after that,
important event(s) will happen. . .harvest ?
. . .Am I +-right ?

Blue skies.

[Conifer16]

1.8 Questioner: Can you comment on the coming planetary changes in our physical reality?

[Background noise.]
Ra: I am Ra. I preferred to wait till this instrument had again reached the proper state of depth of singleness or one-pointedness before we spoke.

The changes are very, very trivial. We do not concern ourselves with the conditions which bring about harvest.

Category: Harvest

6.14 Questioner: I think that it would be appropriate to discover how the Law of One acts in this transfer of beings to our planet and the action of harvest?

Ra: I am Ra. The Law of One states simply that all things are one, that all beings are one. There are certain behaviors and thought-forms consonant with the understanding and practice of this law. Those who, finishing a cycle of experience, demonstrate various grades of distortion of that understanding of thought and action will be separated by their own choice into the vibratory distortion most comfortable to their mind/body/spirit complexes. This process is guarded or watched by those nurturing beings who, being very close to the Law of One in their distortions, nevertheless have the distortion towards active service.

Thus, the illusion is created of light, or more properly but less understandably, light/love. This is in varying degrees of intensity. The spirit complex of each harvested entity moves along the line of light until the light grows too glaring, at which time the entity stops. This entity may have barely reached third density or may be very, very close to the ending of the third-density light/love distortion vibratory complex. Nevertheless, those who fall within this octave of intensifying light/love then experience a major cycle during which the opportunities are many for the discovery of the distortions which are inherent in each entity and, therefore, the lessening of these distortions.

Category: Harvest

6.16 Questioner: What is the position of this planet with respect to the progression of cycles at this time?

Ra: I am Ra. This sphere is at this time in fourth-dimension vibration. Its material is quite confused due to the society memory complexes embedded in its consciousness. It has not made an easy transition to the vibrations which beckon. Therefore, it will be fetched with some inconvenience.

Category: Harvest

6.17 Questioner: Is this inconvenience imminent within a few years?

Ra: I am Ra. This inconvenience, or disharmonious vibratory complex, has begun several of your years in the past. It shall continue unabated for a period of approximately three oh, thirty, of your years.

Category: Harvest

6.18 Questioner: After this period of thirty years I am assuming that this will be a fourth-density planet. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is so.

Category: Harvest

6.19 Questioner: Is it possible to estimate what percent of the present population will inhabit the fourth-density planet?

Ra: The harvesting is not yet, thus, estimation is meaningless.

Category: Harvest

9.3 Questioner: The way that I understand the process of evolution is that our planetary population has a certain amount of time to progress. This is generally divided into three 25,000-year cycles. At the end of 75,000 years the planet progresses itself. What caused this situation to come about with the preciseness of the years in each cycle?

Ra: I am Ra. Visualize, if you will, the particular energy which, outward flowing and inward coagulating, formed the tiny realm of the creation governed by your Council of Saturn. Continue seeing the rhythm of this process. The living flow creates a rhythm which is as inevitable as one of your timepieces. Each of your planetary entities began the first cycle when the energy nexus was able in that environment to support such mind/body experiences. Thus, each of your planetary entities is on a different cyclical schedule as you might call it. The timing of these cycles is a measurement equal to a portion of intelligent energy.

This intelligent energy offers a type of clock. The cycles move as precisely as a clock strikes your hour. Thus, the gateway from intelligent energy to intelligent infinity opens regardless of circumstance on the striking of the hour.
.........................

The first thing I noticed is that Ra says that "Thus, the GATEWAY from intelligent energy to intelligent infinity OPENS regardless of circumstance on the striking of the hour." They do not say anything about us moving through this gateway, nor as to how one would move through the gateway. The only thing they say is that the gateway will open, and it will happen on time like the striking of an hour. Nothing at all about us all automatically moving through it. Then too, they don't mention us ever moving through it, only that it opens at a set time. Oh I am referring to "9.3". lol forgot to specify that. :-)

[Karl]

This has nothing to do with 3d harvest, it pertains to 2d to 3d progression (p184, Session 19, Book 1):

1. Does 2d plant life graduate to 3d and become human? Or do they go to other worlds and different life forms generally?
1a. Do the 2d plant life forms (especially trees) awareness mostly focuse on a inner-plane form or is their awareness mostly physical much like animals/humans?

2. How do 2d mineral entities progress to 3d density if they don't have bodies? How do they go through the "death" transition?
2a. Are there are 3d mineral entities on earth? Or is 3d a strictly human experience?
2b. Do the 2d mineral life form awareness mostly focus on a inner-plane form or is their awareness mostly physical much like animals/humans?

This is connected to this previous post of mine: http://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthrea...#pid110611

[reeay]

What did Ra mean by 'quantum leap'? Is that in a scientific sense (i.e., quantum mechanics)?

40.10 Questioner: I am assuming that this vibratory increase began about twenty to thirty years ago. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. The first harbingers of this were approximately forty-five of your years ago, the energies vibrating more intensely through the forty-year period preceding the final movement of vibratory matter, shall we say, through the quantum leap, as you would call it.

[Confused]

...To me it says: no man and "no angel of heaven" can know when the Harvest will be, but the intelligent infinity.

Though not on the same subject, there is a quote of Ra that speaks on similar lines. Of course, you must be familiar with it, Ankh --

16.5 Questioner: What is the source of this random number generator? Is it created by the Guardians to balance their guarding? Or is it a source other than the Guardians?

Ra: I am Ra. All sources are one. However, we understand your query. The window phenomenon is an other-self phenomenon from the Guardians. It operates from the dimensions beyond space/time in what you may call the area of intelligent energy. Like your cycles, such balancing, such rhythms are as a clock striking. In the case of the windows, no entities have the clock. Therefore, it seems random. It is not random in the dimension which produces this balance. That is why we stated the analogy was within certain limits.

[βαθμιαίος]

What did Ra mean by 'quantum leap'? Is that in a scientific sense (i.e., quantum mechanics)?

The change from yellow to green in the photon, similar to the one that took place from second to third:

40.5 Questioner: Thank you. Taking as an example the transition between second and third-density, when this transition takes place, does the frequency of vibration which forms the photon (the core of all the particles of the density) increase from a frequency corresponding to second density or the color orange to the frequency that we measure as the color yellow? What I am getting at is, do all the vibrations that form the density, the basic vibrations of the photon, increase in a quantum fashion over a relatively short period of time?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct. Then you see within each density the gradual up-grading of vibratory levels.

[kdsii]

The winter solstice is extensively mentioned across various Q'uo material. Maybe it was just me, but I had the impression of a tangible line was to be crossed at that time.

Hi

As said above, if I also remember well,
Ra NEVER talked about "2012 december 21" ! !

He/they talked about a period of "inconveniences", and after that,
important event(s) will happen. . .harvest ?
. . .Am I +-right ?

Blue skies.

[Tenet Nosce]

The fact of the matter is that the only physical changes Ra referred to in the material was a cessation of the "inconveniences" and a "quantum leap" following a roughly 30 year period that was stated in 1981, thus giving 2011 as a target time for this to occur.

The overtones of "apotheosis" and "rapture" of the masses, along with "supernatural" powers like telepathy and flying were added later. These have no actual basis in the material.

Even then, the quotes from Session 17 can be interpret differently as has been discussed in detail all over this forum. Even the integrity of the whole of Session 17 has been called into question.

The salient point in fact here is that the word "ascension" does not appear in the material. Anywhere.

As for the "end" of the Mayan calendar connection, this just so happens to have fallen within the roughly 30-year window given in the material.

Some claim that this has something to do with the 25,920 year period constituting the "Great Year" of the precession of the equinoxes, and thus a potential connection can be made here between the roughly 25-26K cycle given in the material, at the end of which harvest occurs.

There are three fundamental problems with this connection:

1. The Mayan calendar measures a period of 13 "baktuns" of 394 years totaling 5125 years. Thus, the Mayan Calendar "began" 5125 years ago, in 3113 BCE, not 25,920 years ago.

2. Even if the Mayan calendar did somehow measure the 25,920-year cycle, as far as we know the alpha/omega point of this cycle selected by the Mayan astrologers would have been arbitrary.

3. Even if it were not arbitrary, and there were some kind of real astrological influence coming into play here, then we must keep "orbs" in mind with astrological interpretations. That means, when talking about a conjunction of some sort that happens every 25,920 years, even if we apply a very tight one degree orb of influence that gives us a +/- of 72 years to see the physical manifestation of such an influence.

[Aaron]

Moderator note: More post have been split to the Cognitive Distortions and Forum Relationships thread.

[almostdone]

The fact of the matter is that the only physical changes Ra referred to in the material was a cessation of the "inconveniences" and a "quantum leap" following a roughly 30 year period that was stated in 1981, thus giving 2011 as a target time for this to occur.

The overtones of "apotheosis" and "rapture" of the masses, along with "supernatural" powers like telepathy and flying were added later. These have no actual basis in the material.

Even then, the quotes from Session 17 can be interpret differently as has been discussed in detail all over this forum. Even the integrity of the whole of Session 17 has been called into question.

The salient point in fact here is that the word "ascension" does not appear in the material. Anywhere. Nor, do I believe, was it used by any channeled source prior to its introduction by DW.

As for the "end" of the Mayan calendar connection, this just so happens to have fallen within the roughly 30-year window given in the material.

Some claim that this has something to do with the 25,920 year period constituting the "Great Year" of the precession of the equinoxes, and thus a potential connection can be made here between the roughly 25-26K cycle given in the material, at the end of which harvest occurs.

There are three fundamental problems with this connection:

1. The Mayan calendar measures a period of 13 "baktuns" of 394 years totaling 5125 years. Thus, the Mayan Calendar "began" 5125 years ago, in 3113 BCE, not 25,920 years ago.

2. Even if the Mayan calendar did somehow measure the 25,920-year cycle, as far as we know the alpha/omega point of this cycle selected by the Mayan astrologers would have been arbitrary.

3. Even if it were not arbitrary, and there were some kind of real astrological influence coming into play here, then we must keep "orbs" in mind with astrological interpretations. That means, when talking about a conjunction of some sort that happens every 25,920 years, even if we apply a very tight one degree orb of influence that gives us a +/- of 72 years to see the physical manifestation of such an influence.

There is one caveat. There was a 6th density SMC that visited the area even after Ra left. I think it was around that time and left if I remember well written or otherwise translatable teachings. The dates could very well been under Orion influence but there are too many coincidences that points to a relationship between this SMC and Mayans teachings. However, the real teachings are yet to be discovered and the Solstice date could have been just "approximation" like Ra said.

[Parsons]

@TN, you are missing / misconstruing a few points, but it doesn't matter at this point anymore. It's official, the harvest is gradual.

[Tenet Nosce]

There is one caveat. There was a 6th density Social Memory Complex that visited the area even after Ra left. I think it was around that time and left if I remember well written or otherwise translatable teachings. The dates could very well been under Orion influence but there are too many coincidences that points to a relationship between this Social Memory Complex and Mayans teachings. However, the real teachings are yet to be discovered and the Solstice date could have been just "approximation" like Ra said.

Still, the Mayan calendar, according to my understanding does not measure the 25,920 year cycle, but the 5125 year cycle. Now, it is true that 5 cycles of 13 baktuns adds up to 25,625 years- which is roughly the same period as the Great Year. I do recall something in Mayan cosmology about us being in the "fifth world" so maybe there is a connection there.

[native]

It's official, the harvest is gradual.

Now we can move on to this stage.. "The adept will not simply be tapping into intelligent energy as a means of readiness for harvest but tapping into both intelligent energy and intelligent infinity for the purpose of transmuting planetary harvestability and consciousness."

[almostdone]

@TN, you are missing / misconstruing a few points, but it doesn't matter at this point anymore. It's official, the harvest is gradual.

Why?

1) Because "nothing" happened on a particular date?. That goes against what Ra said about dates. Approximation is approximation...however, if there is no significant change (I would say within 2 yrs), then I would probably agree with gradual shift.

2) 'Quantum leap" is a quantum leap. There is no way around it according to (since) 1980's common knowledge.

[Tenet Nosce]

Why?

Beats me- I thought I was pretty much stating facts to the best of my knowledge. If there are inaccuracies, then correction is appropriate.

1) Because "nothing" happened on a particular date?. That goes against what Ra said about dates. Approximation is approximation...however, if there is no significant change (I would say within 2 yrs), then I would probably agree with gradual shift.

Yes, but what is the "litmus test" of "something happening"? The world is changing all the time. Speaking if a "gradual shift" is non-falsifiable since at any given moment, things are shifting.

2) 'Quantum leap" is a quantum leap. There is no way around it according to (since) 1980's common knowledge.

That's true. We have had other discussions about what the "quantum leap" is. All we can definitively say at this point is what it is NOT.

[almostdone]

Honestly, just intellectually speaking...in a mixed harvest like in this planet, the probabilities for a gradual shift seem lessened due the nature of the negativity in the planet since if you have the power and weapons (and one is negative) a gradual process seems negate this same process. If this is balanced by increased vibrations of the 4d pos nature, then is not the consciousness of the inhabitants that produces the change but the vibrations per se...either way, gradual or quantum leap the process seems to do with a mechanical process.

The very nature of holding power is negative in this case, and unless there is clear change real soon.. However the process could change if new generations are balanced with the congruency of vibrations. Still the point remains, the change needs to be <very noticeable> (in my opinion and in a very short time), even if the process is gradual.

---

Why?

2) 'Quantum leap" is a quantum leap. There is no way around it according to (since) 1980's common knowledge.

That's true. We have had other discussions about what the "quantum leap" is. All we can definitively say at this point is what it is NOT.

Logic at analyzing what "approximation" is, tells me that we are within the parameters "it is too early to tell".