3D to 4D: Sudden or Gradual? A great read...(David Wilcock interview)

[native]

'Seeing' at that gnostic level we can see the object as an 'interior' (time/space). That's where the notions of realm of forms, or symbolism, comes from.

Which goes back to the other thread about understanding and viewing the present moment for what it is. I find myself during daily activity pausing every now and then and viewing the illusion with gnostic eyes.

[Bring4th_Steve]

well Bashar says something to that effect. Zen, i'm not talking about 4d, of course we have no veil there. i'm saying 3d people without a veil would pop out of space/time afaics.

Oceania, there are sections in the Law of One series that discuss the veil and 3D/4D entities, in particular.

Ra makes it clear that there have been many societies here and elsewhere in the universe that experienced 3D with and without a veil:

Ra: I am Ra. The third density is, by its very fiber, a societal one. There are societies wherever there are entities conscious of the self and conscious of other-selves and possessed with intelligence adequate to process information indicating the benefits of communal blending of energies. The structures of society before as after veiling were various. However, the societies before veiling did not depend in any case upon the intentional enslavement of some for the benefit of others, this not being seen to be a possibility when all are seen as one. There was, however, the requisite amount of disharmony to produce various experiments in what you may call governmental or societal structures.

Also, third-density IS only about making the choice of polarity within a space/time construct. You cannot "pop" out of space/time since it is the physical structure of this density. If there is any popping out, it's our consciousness during the dream state when we cross the veil into the subconscious mind and experience time/space in other dimensions (dreams). But our native structure remains space/time for anyone in 3D.

Hope that helps to clarify...
Steve

[zenmaster]

Zenmaster, not sure that the veil has anything to do with mechanics of the brain. Consider what Ra had to say on the matter:

Questioner: This veil then occurs between what we now call the unconscious and conscious minds. Is this correct?
Ra: I am Ra. This is correct.

Ra: I am Ra. Firstly, let us establish that both before and after the veil the same conditions existed in time/space; that is, the veiling process is a space/time phenomenon.

It can be inferred that the veil is a noun/state, not a verb/function.

Not sure what you're trying to point out. The brain is the body's localized (space/time) 'interface' to the mind (nonlocal time/space) - it's what determines our sense faculties and nature of how we access the mind (piecemeal, separating, as tiny candle in the dark). So the veil certainly has a lot to do with the phenomenal mechanics of the brain. What's 'hidden behind the veil' is the unconscious - the totality of one's invested experience in self up to a point.

---

'Seeing' at that gnostic level we can see the object as an 'interior' (time/space). That's where the notions of realm of forms, or symbolism, comes from.

Which goes back to the other thread about understanding and viewing the present moment for what it is. I find myself during daily activity pausing every now and then and viewing the illusion with gnostic eyes.

That's the noumenal 'reality' that comes from a certain amount of acceptance, and without it, probably a big reason why Ra said 'understanding is not of this density'. Seeing more of time/space, the more fundamental principles, or 'language' if you will, that give rise to the phenomenal world is not having to mistake the 'finger pointing at the moon' for the moon itself. What was once hidden, is revealed in a manner that is more authentic or essential.

[native]

I think he simply meant that the veil isn't a function OF the brain, but rather that it is independent and works with the brain.

[Bring4th_Steve]

I think he simply meant that the veil isn't a function OF the brain, but rather that it is independent and works with the brain.

Yes, that's another way to summarize my post, thanks Icaro!

Your second post definitely helped clarify, Zenmaster. It was a bit short, so I probably interpreted it incorrectly. The word "mechanics," when tied to the brain, is rather confusing because we are talking about a natural state that effects the brain, not something that is an attribute of the brain's mechanics. In other words, if the brain were to theoretically not "think", there would therefore be no mechanics to speak of, yet the veil would still exist as a state which affects all 3D consciousness.

Steve

[lightning]

thin veil is still a veil, what i mean is if you understand it all you pop out of space/time.

The veil is merely a perceptual orientation. It comes from the brain which is hard-wired to this perception because it creates the ego. Penetrating the veil is facilitated by giving up the things that the ego tells us are important and by abdicating the self as any kind of worthwhile judge. The Bible is full of examples whereby one can do this - love, forgiveness, judge not...., but primarily faith. A prolonged use of any of these things can and will lead to penetrating the veil. When it occurs, and this is true whether one is a so-called wanderer or not, one experiences joy and the miraculous becomes common-place (actually, I don't think it makes any difference whatever whether there are wanderers). Another profound side-effect becomes a constant awareness of the Self, or Higher Self, and operating under it's guidance all the time. But doing all these things comes from what Ra referred to as balancing. Interestingly enough, I seldom see it discussed on these forums. It seems that many people would rather discuss other things.

[Oceania]

sounds boring. i don't wanna give up my ego.

[3DMonkey]

thin veil is still a veil, what i mean is if you understand it all you pop out of space/time.

The veil is merely a perceptual orientation. It comes from the brain which is hard-wired to this perception because it creates the ego. Penetrating the veil is facilitated by giving up the things that the ego tells us are important and by abdicating the self as any kind of worthwhile judge. The Bible is full of examples whereby one can do this - love, forgiveness, judge not...., but primarily faith. A prolonged use of any of these things can and will lead to penetrating the veil. When it occurs, and this is true whether one is a so-called wanderer or not, one experiences joy and the miraculous becomes common-place (actually, I don't think it makes any difference whatever whether there are wanderers). Another profound side-effect becomes a constant awareness of the Self, or Higher Self, and operating under it's guidance all the time. But doing all these things comes from what Ra referred to as balancing. Interestingly enough, I seldom see it discussed on these forums. It seems that many people would rather discuss other things.

Just like catalysts and experiences, balancing is always occurring. I wrote a current post in a thread on balancing. The post was erased after the backup was reinstalled .
Balancing isn't a high level of achievement. It's simply a completed catalyst->experience->->transformation. A simple example is that I have experienced a grocery store so often that it is no longer a needed catalyst, and therefore, I am "balanced" regarding that particular catalyst. On the other hand, my child walks into a market and has a catalyst to "balance" at ever turn down an aisle.

"Faith" is nothing more than doing something you've never experienced before. "Balance" is simply completing the evolvement of the catalysts the occurred from the choice of faith.

Balancing is not as 'fancy' as I, in the past, gave it credit.

[unity100]

thin veil is still a veil, what i mean is if you understand it all you pop out of space/time.

The veil is merely a perceptual orientation. It comes from the brain which is hard-wired to this perception because it creates the ego. Penetrating the veil is facilitated by giving up the things that the ego tells us are important and by abdicating the self as any kind of worthwhile judge. The Bible is full of examples whereby one can do this - love, forgiveness, judge not...., but primarily faith. A prolonged use of any of these things can and will lead to penetrating the veil. When it occurs, and this is true whether one is a so-called wanderer or not, one experiences joy and the miraculous becomes common-place (actually, I don't think it makes any difference whatever whether there are wanderers). Another profound side-effect becomes a constant awareness of the Self, or Higher Self, and operating under it's guidance all the time. But doing all these things comes from what Ra referred to as balancing. Interestingly enough, I seldom see it discussed on these forums. It seems that many people would rather discuss other things.

the veil isnt just some 'mere' perception thingamajig. it is a mechanism that is present in 3d time/space for logoi that are wanting to utilize it.

[Raman]

Venus is a planet now that has 5th/6th density environment...inhabited by 5d entities... if we could travel to venus....would be able to see 3d structures done by Ra...millions and millions of years ago? Even traces?

Lets say when venus was 4d....would that still be possible?

Venus just appears inhospitable for 3d and we unable to see 5d entities? Kinda like Saturn rings and the Council?

When earth goes 4d...3d structures appears to remain but to what extent? What about the nuclear devices and plants, for example?

[3DMonkey]

Venus is a planet now that has 5th/6th density environment...inhabited by 5d entities... if we could travel to venus....would be able to see 3d structures done by Ra...millions and millions of years ago? Even traces?

Lets say when venus was 4d....would that still be possible?

Venus just appears inhospitable for 3d and we unable to see 5d entities? Kinda like Saturn rings and the Council?

When earth goes 4d...3d structures appears to remain but to what extent? What about the nuclear devices and plants, for example?

Maybe uranium and plutonium turn into vanilla pudding in a green ray activated environment ...

[Raman]

It would seem to be a job to be started by dual entities....judging by the extreme efficacy of the spontaneous organized "spanish revolution" of may 15th (started then now continuing and propagating to rest of europe) it should be a very easy task... it is incredible this dance with the sun isn't?


(where is kia?)

[Oceania]

If the end of the Great Cycle is near, all who have learned the lessons (or not) will be at a point of continued 3D or progression to 4D- or 4D+. A 'natural disaster' is just another means of getting people to the correct density when the time is right, to continue their path.

Half the fun is thinking about it

I attended the Austin Convergence with David. During it, he said that the earth will not die a 'nuclear' death, that the ET's would not allow it and neutralize any bombs if we tried to use them on each other.

He also said that if natural disasters occurred to destroy mankind on this planet, that all people will make the transition, either to 4d or another 3d planet.

I imagine the 3d people would 'trancend' away from earth the same way the 3d peoples left Mars during their destruction.

but that was something Ra regretted and prolly wouldn't do again.

---

if people incarnate on earth for 400 years that doesn't mean 4D earth.

[kycahi]

Penetrating the veil is facilitated by giving up the things that the ego tells us are important and by abdicating the self as any kind of worthwhile judge. The Bible is full of examples whereby one can do this - love, forgiveness, judge not...., but primarily faith.

In this instance, I can replace the word 'faith' with 'intent.'

A prolonged use of any of these things can and will lead to penetrating the veil. When it occurs, and this is true whether one is a so-called wanderer or not, one experiences joy and the miraculous becomes common-place (actually, I don't think it makes any difference whatever whether there are wanderers). Another profound side-effect becomes a constant awareness of the Self, or Higher Self, and operating under it's guidance all the time. But doing all these things comes from what Ra referred to as balancing. Interestingly enough, I seldom see it discussed on these forums. It seems that many people would rather discuss other things.

Balancing gets tossed around in these forums and certainly within a lot of Ra quotes. Perhaps even this crowd can't dwell on and exhaust balance as a topic.

[vbaba]

G: M writes, “I would like to ask Q’uo what is the fate of the veil on this planet beginning in 2013 and continuing in time thereafter? Will it gradually dissolve? If so, at approximately what rate? Please describe how this occurrence will affect the planet and the third-density entities upon it as much as you can without infringing on the Law of Confusion. Thank you.”

Q'uo: We are those of Q’uo, and we thank the one known as M for this query. When one is, as you are, possessed of physical senses which perceive a physical world, it is completely understandable that you would not necessarily grasp the concept that all apparently solid objects are actually fields of energy. As fields of energy, the closest that they come to matter is small fields of energy within the larger and encompassing field of energy which are called atoms. However, from your scientists you have received the information that even these points of matter, so called, are in fact energy fields, that matter has never been seen by your keenest telescope. Rather, it is the path of energy that is seen. And you know from your scientists that an atom consists almost entirely of space. We mention these scientific facts to you so that you may begin to wrap your mind around the concept of the nested densities of the creation.

Third-density Earth is nested within fourth-density Earth. It is not the same Earth as fourth-density Earth. Third-density Earth will not become fourth-density Earth, any more than first-density Earth became second-density Earth, or second-density Earth became third-density Earth. These densities are nested in such a way as to occupy the same area or influence within space/time and time/space, held lovingly by the overarching energy field of your sun.

Third-density Earth is an Earth whose light is waning. While it will remain third-density, it will no longer support third-density entities in their seeking of the truth. Thusly, third density is shortly to become inactive, we would say, within three or four hundred of your years beyond 2012. Thusly, 2013 upon your planet will look very much like 2012 upon your planet. However, you will find that your population of entities grows more and more interested and fascinated with the reparation of the Earth and the healing of what you call your Mother Earth or Gaia.

Those who incarnate at this time upon Planet Earth, that is, after 2012, will be those whose experiences in other incarnations have carried with them an element of adhering karma because of the destruction of their Earth whether it be this Earth and the destruction of Atlantis, or Maldek, or Mars, or several other Earths that created an uninhabitable third-density planet and thusly needed to finish third density upon Planet Earth. There are quite a few millions of those who feel that desire at this time to be part of the healing of the Mother. And there is great joy in contemplating that healing.

Fourth-density Earth is an entirely different sphere, within which third density is nested. And as fourth-density light becomes that which your sun is capable of offering, that fourth-density Earth shall more and more become populated by those from third-density Earth who have graduated in a positive sense and wish to move on. It will be a long time before entities who are inhabiting third density will be able to see entities of fourth density. However, they are as real and as physical, shall we say, to themselves and to fourth-density Earth as you are to your Earth.

We realize that this is one of the less comfortable or naturally obvious concepts having to do with the concept of densities. It is natural for a person to think that this same Earth upon which your feet make footsteps shall become fourth density and that on this same Earth, fourth density shall take place. However, we would suggest to you that it is much like wanting to take your physical body with you when you pass from physical life upon this planet and hoping to drag what this instrument would call this chemical distillery of a body into fourth density and attempt to lug it around when everyone else is dancing with a much lighter and electrically driven rather than chemically driven body.[/

I find this very interesting. Q'uo states that there will still be 3d incarnations on earth for the next 300-400 years.

This only makes me more curious how the harvest wil manifest itself in 2012.

Greetings. Regarding Densities: 1st Density is the Mineral Kingdom: Once a mineral, always a mineral. Planets are 1st Density. 2nd Density is Plants and Animals. 3rd Density is Human, with a 75,000 year cycle. 4th Density is MAN, a higher, electro-chemical form of Humans. 30 Million years is allocated in this cycle! 5th Density is non-physical Quasi MAN. 6th Density is the Social Memory Complex. 7th Density is the Mystery/The One Infinite Creator.

1st Density Planet Earth supports 2nd Density Plants and Animals and 3rd Density Humans and a small percentage of 4th & 5th Density Wanderers incarnated in 3rd Density vehicles. So you see, 3D entities already see entities of 4th Density but because of of their 3D soul status, are unable to detect the difference.

A planet vibrates to a Density. Earth supported 2D long before 3D was seeded then she vibrated to 3D. Our Grandmother Moon, which is a 1st Density planet, vibrates 5th Density for she is inhabited by non physical 5th Density entities which 3rd Density does not detect.

3rd Density Yellow Ray of Emotions is ending on Planet Earth and she will no longer support 3D after the the upcoming Harvest and her Transition into the Green Ray of Love Vibration. We are at the end of a 75,000 year Human Cycle and the 3rd and Final Harvest is upon us. 3D is not compatible with 4D. We are witnessing this clashing upon the surface of the planet at this time.

The Unharvestables will be taken to a planet prepared for them in another system to begin another 75,000 year cycle in which to graduate out of 3rd Density. They will be allowed to return to earth when they have graduated out of 3rd Density. The earth will no longer "welcome" 3rd Density, other than in the realm of memories of the Harvestables who choose to return to this planet after her Transition into 4D.

The 4D Harvestables will not keep their 3rd Density bodies. New 4D bodies, which are denser than 3D, are being manufactured for the Harvestables. Nothing of 3rd Density, including the bodies we wear, will survive the cleansing cataclysms.

This one sees your distortion towards an earth supporting multi-densities nested within each other, to be rather a Multidimensional Earth - a reflection of our Multidimensional Selves: wherein Major Worlds with multiple Sub-Worlds or Probable Worlds of Reality exist at the same time/space as does with the human experience with our past, present and future lives existing simultaneously.

[Oceania]

we are losing emotions? that's sad.

---

where is it said nothing of 3D remains? how do you know what will happen?

[Raman]

G: M writes, “I would like to ask Q’uo what is the fate of the veil on this planet beginning in 2013 and continuing in time thereafter? Will it gradually dissolve? If so, at approximately what rate? Please describe how this occurrence will affect the planet and the third-density entities upon it as much as you can without infringing on the Law of Confusion. Thank you.”

Q'uo: We are those of Q’uo, and we thank the one known as M for this query. When one is, as you are, possessed of physical senses which perceive a physical world, it is completely understandable that you would not necessarily grasp the concept that all apparently solid objects are actually fields of energy. As fields of energy, the closest that they come to matter is small fields of energy within the larger and encompassing field of energy which are called atoms. However, from your scientists you have received the information that even these points of matter, so called, are in fact energy fields, that matter has never been seen by your keenest telescope. Rather, it is the path of energy that is seen. And you know from your scientists that an atom consists almost entirely of space. We mention these scientific facts to you so that you may begin to wrap your mind around the concept of the nested densities of the creation.

Third-density Earth is nested within fourth-density Earth. It is not the same Earth as fourth-density Earth. Third-density Earth will not become fourth-density Earth, any more than first-density Earth became second-density Earth, or second-density Earth became third-density Earth. These densities are nested in such a way as to occupy the same area or influence within space/time and time/space, held lovingly by the overarching energy field of your sun.

Third-density Earth is an Earth whose light is waning. While it will remain third-density, it will no longer support third-density entities in their seeking of the truth. Thusly, third density is shortly to become inactive, we would say, within three or four hundred of your years beyond 2012. Thusly, 2013 upon your planet will look very much like 2012 upon your planet. However, you will find that your population of entities grows more and more interested and fascinated with the reparation of the Earth and the healing of what you call your Mother Earth or Gaia.

Those who incarnate at this time upon Planet Earth, that is, after 2012, will be those whose experiences in other incarnations have carried with them an element of adhering karma because of the destruction of their Earth whether it be this Earth and the destruction of Atlantis, or Maldek, or Mars, or several other Earths that created an uninhabitable third-density planet and thusly needed to finish third density upon Planet Earth. There are quite a few millions of those who feel that desire at this time to be part of the healing of the Mother. And there is great joy in contemplating that healing.

Fourth-density Earth is an entirely different sphere, within which third density is nested. And as fourth-density light becomes that which your sun is capable of offering, that fourth-density Earth shall more and more become populated by those from third-density Earth who have graduated in a positive sense and wish to move on. It will be a long time before entities who are inhabiting third density will be able to see entities of fourth density. However, they are as real and as physical, shall we say, to themselves and to fourth-density Earth as you are to your Earth.

We realize that this is one of the less comfortable or naturally obvious concepts having to do with the concept of densities. It is natural for a person to think that this same Earth upon which your feet make footsteps shall become fourth density and that on this same Earth, fourth density shall take place. However, we would suggest to you that it is much like wanting to take your physical body with you when you pass from physical life upon this planet and hoping to drag what this instrument would call this chemical distillery of a body into fourth density and attempt to lug it around when everyone else is dancing with a much lighter and electrically driven rather than chemically driven body.[/

I find this very interesting. Q'uo states that there will still be 3d incarnations on earth for the next 300-400 years.

This only makes me more curious how the harvest wil manifest itself in 2012.

Greetings. Regarding Densities: 1st Density is the Mineral Kingdom: Once a mineral, always a mineral. Planets are 1st Density. 2nd Density is Plants and Animals. 3rd Density is Human, with a 75,000 year cycle. 4th Density is MAN, a higher, electro-chemical form of Humans. 30 Million years is allocated in this cycle! 5th Density is non-physical Quasi MAN. 6th Density is the Social Memory Complex. 7th Density is the Mystery/The One Infinite Creator.

1st Density Planet Earth supports 2nd Density Plants and Animals and 3rd Density Humans and a small percentage of 4th & 5th Density Wanderers incarnated in 3rd Density vehicles. So you see, 3D entities already see entities of 4th Density but because of of their 3D soul status, are unable to detect the difference.

A planet vibrates to a Density. Earth supported 2D long before 3D was seeded then she vibrated to 3D. Our Grandmother Moon, which is a 1st Density planet, vibrates 5th Density for she is inhabited by non physical 5th Density entities which 3rd Density does not detect.

3rd Density Yellow Ray of Emotions is ending on Planet Earth and she will no longer support 3D after the the upcoming Harvest and her Transition into the Green Ray of Love Vibration. We are at the end of a 75,000 year Human Cycle and the 3rd and Final Harvest is upon us. 3D is not compatible with 4D. We are witnessing this clashing upon the surface of the planet at this time.

The Unharvestables will be taken to a planet prepared for them in another system to begin another 75,000 year cycle in which to graduate out of 3rd Density. They will be allowed to return to earth when they have graduated out of 3rd Density. The earth will no longer "welcome" 3rd Density, other than in the realm of memories of the Harvestables who choose to return to this planet after her Transition into 4D.

The 4D Harvestables will not keep their 3rd Density bodies. New 4D bodies, which are denser than 3D, are being manufactured for the Harvestables. Nothing of 3rd Density, including the bodies we wear, will survive the cleansing cataclysms.

This one sees your distortion towards an earth supporting multi-densities nested within each other, to be rather a Multidimensional Earth - a reflection of our Multidimensional Selves: wherein Major Worlds with multiple Sub-Worlds or Probable Worlds of Reality exist at the same time/space as does with the human experience with our past, present and future lives existing simultaneously.

What about the dual activated bodies? They were already harvested to 4d, and with all probability most of them will still be "harvestable" unless the fact of being dual activated is indeed another "condition" on which Harvest (last cycle) doe not apply to them or are included on 4d harvest as "a matter of fact" when the gateway to II opens for us all...

[unity100]

i wouldnt trust q'uo channelings (or any channeling that is done in conscious manner that is) that much. i have been told some of the pieces are quite colored by the perceptions of whomever channeled them at that point.

[Oceania]

4d beings aren't already harvested, they were harvested but they have to repolarize to be harvested. that's how i see it.

---

or at least remain polarized.

[vbaba]

Venus is a planet now that has 5th/6th density environment...inhabited by 5d entities... if we could travel to venus....would be able to see 3d structures done by Ra...millions and millions of years ago? Even traces?

Lets say when venus was 4d....would that still be possible?

Venus just appears inhospitable for 3d and we unable to see 5d entities? Kinda like Saturn rings and the Council?

When earth goes 4d...3d structures appears to remain but to what extent? What about the nuclear devices and plants, for example?

Maybe uranium and plutonium turn into vanilla pudding in a green ray activated environment ...

This one sees you are correct that if 3D were to land on Venus, we would be unable to detect 5D vibrational inhabitants. On earth at this time, 3D bodies are inhabited by a small percentage of 4D and 5D entities. We may descend downward into matter but not ascend to a higher Density unless we have done the work to raise our vibration. It is not favorable to lower one's vibration unless on a mission or purpose on that planet. Higher Density incarnates are having difficulties on planet earth, whose population is largely the Young Soul.

When earth goes 4D, the Harvestors will take the 4D Harvestables to a "safe place" while the Unharvestables go through the death process and gather in the etheric plane, 20 miles above earth's surface, where 4D MAN will tow behind their craft to the new planet where they will begin a new cycle to graduate out of 3D.

During this 75,000 year cycle which is now ending, each Root Race, and there has been 5, has disappeared through cleansing cataclysms so the next Root Race can begin afresh. Atlantean Root Race was inundated 11,600 years. Only traces beneath the ocean are speculated to be the remains of that great civilization. This Aryan Root Race is seeing its finale with Fire scheduled as the cleansing agent. This one has been notified Chernobyl will be spared as a reminder to 4D of the destruction 3D is capable of doing to an innocent planet. The pyramids are also likely to survive. Nothing else of 3D will survive, including these bodies we inhabit. Why would we want to look out at our beautiful new earth, with a face of eternal Springtime, only to see horrible buildings and structures that have polluted our earth mother's surface during our 3D existence?

[unity100]

4d beings aren't already harvested, they were harvested but they have to repolarize to be harvested. that's how i see it.

---

or at least remain polarized.

in Ra material, it was said that 4d entities were here for 4d work. 4d work, is 4d work. not 3d work of polarizing for attaining harvestable status.

moreover, ra had said that the 3-4d bodies occupied by 4d entities were going to produce the eventual 4d body.

.....................

what are your sources for these ?

[Oceania]

i think buildings can be beautiful. beauty is in the eye of the beholder. also, all art should be saved if there is to be destruction of the things we have built.

---

Unity where does it say 4D entities don't need to polarize? we all can get karmically involved/depolarize even if we are 4D.

[hogey11]

4d beings aren't already harvested, they were harvested but they have to repolarize to be harvested. that's how i see it.

---

or at least remain polarized.

in Ra material, it was said that 4d entities were here for 4d work. 4d work, is 4d work. not 3d work of polarizing for attaining harvestable status.

moreover, ra had said that the 3-4d bodies occupied by 4d entities were going to produce the eventual 4d body.

.....................

what are your sources for these ?

I knew the tiger would come out of its cage sooner or later...

[unity100]

this is something implied or conclusive from multiple points :

it is told that 4d is density of understanding - not polarization. 4d entities do not work to polarize, and are not measured in harvest for polarization, even though they automatically polarize. these are information that come out in the talk regarding 4d and 5d harvests.

it is told that the work of 3d is making the choice. polarization. 3d entities' work is thus.

it is told that the 4d entities who were already harvested, are incarnated in 3-4d bodies for 4d work. referring to above, 4d work is not making the choice, again. it is 4d work. it may entail polarization, however, it is not polarization.

moreover, these entities have incarnated on this planet TO live entire 4d here - not for harvest specifically. it is their home ground.

therefore, harvest is not relevant at all for these entities. these entities are doing 4d work here. just like how they would do it in other 4d planets.

[Raman]

Any ideas about the number of dual activated entities?

There are about 67 million of planets "aware" i suppose this means 3d and above? or 4d and above? in this galaxy:

16.24 Questioner: Roughly how many total planets in this galaxy of stars that we are in are aware regardless of density?
Ra: I am Ra. Approximately 67 million.

[Raman]

i wouldnt trust q'uo channelings (or any channeling that is done in conscious manner that is) that much. i have been told some of the pieces are quite colored by the perceptions of whomever channeled them at that point.

That is the problem I see many times in this forum... many treat the quo channelings to be as reliable as Ra's just because Carla is involved at times ,etc...

I honestly must say that there could be some validity on those channelings just because Carla has experience with channelings. However, you cannot compare Ra's channelings with Q'uo's. For example I must say that if David Wilcock is saying " I am channeling Ra now..." i m sorry i must say "zero probabilities" with q'uo maybe a little higher...not enough for me though.

It is hard enough to put together the immense amount of information in the Ra material.


To me this is the only reliable material so far, and it took me a few tries to discern if I could trust the source..but then there were very incredible moments where i felt deep inside that "Carla could not have made this up, even unconsciously --not realizing it--although the validity is there due to being unconscious...

I do not think it matters that it is 30 years old.

[3DMonkey]

i wouldnt trust q'uo channelings (or any channeling that is done in conscious manner that is) that much. i have been told some of the pieces are quite colored by the perceptions of whomever channeled them at that point.

That is the problem I see many times in this forum... many treat the quo channelings to be as reliable as Ra's just because Carla is involved at times ,etc...

I honestly must say that there could be some validity on those channelings just because Carla has experience with channelings. However, you cannot compare Ra's channelings with Q'uo's. For example I must say that if David Wilcock is saying " I am channeling Ra now..." i m sorry i must say "zero probabilities" with q'uo maybe a little higher...not enough for me though.

It is hard enough to put together the immense amount of information in the Ra material.


To me this is the only reliable material so far, and it took me a few tries to discern if I could trust the source..but then there were very incredible moments where i felt deep inside that "Carla could not have made this up, even unconsciously --not realizing it--although the validity is there due to being unconscious...

I do not think it matters that it is 30 years old.

What is "the problem"?

The irony here is that Ra doesn't suggest that we seek them but to seek our self and our higher self. I would suggest we trust that MORE THAN Ra.

[unity100]

i wouldnt trust q'uo channelings (or any channeling that is done in conscious manner that is) that much. i have been told some of the pieces are quite colored by the perceptions of whomever channeled them at that point.

That is the problem I see many times in this forum... many treat the quo channelings to be as reliable as Ra's just because Carla is involved at times ,etc...

I honestly must say that there could be some validity on those channelings just because Carla has experience with channelings.

im told that even her conscious channelings come colored with her own biases.

[Oceania]

implied doesn't imply anything when looking at how differently the LOO is interpreted.

where does it say they will stay here or that means they don't need harvest? that's preposterous! we all need to be harvested, regardless of body, and since we have 3D bodies we can all go askew here which means polarizing again and being harvestable. noone is exempt. you still have to live with a fallible 3D body even if you are a dual body.

[unity100]

'implied' here means direct conclusion.

you dont do 3d work, in 4d. you dont do 5d work, in 4d. each has its own density.

there is nothing 'preposterous' about it - entities that are of higher density, are entities of higher density. polarization is a result of spiritual biases. spiritual biases define the density of an entity, since both mind and body are subject to change depending on incarnation.

spiritual biases dont change with incarnation. otherwise, upon incarnation into a 3d plane, the entity would immediately become a 3d entity, and would have to go all the way through 4d, 5d to its native density in higher densities, ALL over again over a course of timeless duration (millions to billions of years, if you count in 6d). in short - there wouldnt be anything such as 'returning to home density'. noone could ever return to their home densities upon cessation of incarnation.