Ra's Adventures in Wonderland

[Cyan]

I think what you mean here, and please correct me if I am wrong, is that spiritual growth occurs from simply being oneself, and seeking deeper into the true nature of the self.

Thus, "service" does NOT mean being a servant to false identities. Whether they belong to the "self" or "other" is irrelevant. In the context of the Law of One, service does not mean taking orders from people's egos. Including your own.

Service refers to "what it is" that one is serving. This is not the recipient of the serving, but that which is being served. As in, what are you serving for dinner?

Who you are serving for dinner is irrelevant in the context of the Law of One, since there is only one of us here anyway.

There is no difference between them thus the real choice is not to make a choice between them. The real choice is to look at the choice and go "huh, so thats what its about" and go do something nice with the time you have, preferably with people you like, and stuff that you like to do.

Kinda like "no one wants to improve, so dont, improve by being more of yourself every day, not by becoming more of something every day"

It is diffuclt to explain at the moment as i would nto say i am in the "best mindset" for explaining anything. But....

Kinda like what you're supposed to aim for isnt 99% sto and 1% sts but more like as indifferent to the whole concept as possible, while on the side of STO. Sort of kinda "know enough to hit the harvest when that time comes / that time is, but beyond that, dont fret, and also, remember to get off the spiritual treadmill"

[Patrick]

Precisely my point. You have apparently assumed that "The Choice" is making a decision between "STS" and "STO". I understand that many people here believe this, but I don't. Nor do I believe that's what the material actually says anywhere...

Well that is certainly interesting !

...Yet, that apparently doesn't stop some people from reading that into it over and over again.

76.16 Questioner: Third density, then, it appears, is, compared to the rest of the densities, all of them, nothing but a uniquely short period of what we consider to be time and is then for the purpose of this choice. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is precisely correct. The prelude to choice must encompass the laying of the foundation, the establishment of the illusion and the viability of that which can be made spiritually viable. The remainder of the densities is continuous refining of the choice. This also is greatly lengthened, as you would use the term. The choice is, as you put it, the work of a moment but is the axis upon which the creation turns.

The prelude to choice. What do you think they mean by this?

I believe the prelude means to setup the whole illusion that will result in a veiled experience that will permit such a Choice to be even possible.

So in my opinion, the prelude is the creation of so much confusion that such a concept as other becomes possible. Can you imagine how much confusion the Creator needs to be in before it can start to believe that anything could be other than the self.

...The Choice is the work of a moment. Not the work of a lifetime. The lifetime is the "laying of the foundation" and the "establishment of the illusion".

That is not how I understand it. I believe that Ra is speaking in terms of the whole Octave of experience and not just one 3d incarnation per se.

78.21 Questioner: You stated previously that The Choice that is made in this density, third density, is the axis upon which the creation turns. Could you expand on your reason for making that statement?

Ra: I am Ra. This is a statement of the nature of creation as we speak to you.

78.22 Questioner: I did not understand that. Could you say that in a different way?

Ra: I am Ra. As you have noted, the creation of which your Logos is a part is a protean entity which grows and learns upon a macrocosmic scale. The Logos is not a part of time. All that is learned from experience in an octave is, therefore, the harvest of that Logos and is further the nature of that Logos.

The original Logos’s experience was, viewed in space/time, small; Its experience now, more. Therefore we say, as we now speak to you at this space/time, the nature of creation is as we have described. This does not deny the process by which this nature has been achieved but merely ratifies the product.

Perhaps you haven't noticed, that none of the words...

1. Service
2. Self
3. Other

...appear in any of these quotes you have provided here to explain my surprise "that so many people would take the Law of One, and derive an entire philosophy from it based on the apparent distinction between self and other..."

Unless I am very much mistaken, the terms Service-to-Others and Service-to-Self are used by Ra directly, in the material, to simply name the two choices we have which constitutes The Choice referred to in these quotes.

Personally, I do not like these terms very much. I would prefer to call them.

Service-to-All and All-to-my-service

[Tenet Nosce]

go do something nice with the time you have, preferably with people you like, and stuff that you like to do.

Is that not service?

See that's what I'm getting at. Is this really "selfish"? Is it depolarizing? I don't think that is necessarily so.

The question is, when doing "something nice with the time you have, preferably with people you like, and stuff that you like to do" is one seeking to serve a progressively more authentic version of the self? Or is one serving a false identity? Is one being loving and wise? Or is one being spiteful and clever?

Similarly, when out and about "feeding the starving kids in Africa" is one serving up authenticity? Or are they serving up a false image of themselves? Are they pretending to be more compassionate than they really are, in a vain effort to make up for their lack of spiritual development?

Does "doing nice things for people" earn us "polarization points"? I don't think it works like that at all.

[Cyan]

go do something nice with the time you have, preferably with people you like, and stuff that you like to do.

Is that not service?

See that's what I'm getting at. Is this really "selfish"? Is it depolarizing? I don't think that is necessarily so.

The question is, when doing "something nice with the time you have, preferably with people you like, and stuff that you like to do" is one seeking to serve a progressively more authentic version of the self? Or is one serving a false identity? Is one being loving and wise? Or is one being spiteful and clever?

Similarly, when out and about "feeding the starving kids in Africa" is one serving up authenticity? Or are they serving up a false image of themselves? Are they pretending to be more compassionate than they really are, in a vain effort to make up for their lack of spiritual development?

Does "doing nice things for people" earn us "polarization points"? I don't think it works like that at all.

All good and valid points, but if you like what you are doing you are very unlikely to be serving a false image.

[Tenet Nosce]

Unless I am very much mistaken, the terms Service-to-Others and Service-to-Self are used by Ra directly, in the material, to simply name the two choices we have which constitutes The Choice referred to in these quotes.

I'm afraid that you are mistaken. (No, it really doesn't scare me at all!)

Here, see for yourself.

Ra only uses the term service-to-others term once in any of these quotes. And even then it is marked as an "error" in the annotation. (I think, precisely because Ra does not discern a difference between the two is why this "error" was made.) Also, perhaps of note, is that it was given in a response to a query about the "fifth-density companion":

85.9 Questioner: Since our fifth-density companion has been monitoring our communication with Ra it has been made aware of the veiling process of which we have been speaking. It seems to me that conscious knowledge and acceptance of the fact that this veiling process was used for the purpose for which it was used would make it difficult to maintain high negative polarization. Could you clear up my thinking on that, please?

Ra: I am Ra. We are unsure as to our success in realigning your modes of mentation. We may, however, comment.

The polarization process, as it enters fourth density, is one which occurs with full knowledge of the veiling process which has taken place in third density. This veiling process is that which is a portion of the third-density experience. The knowledge and memory of the outcome of this and all portions of the third-density experience informs the higher-density polarized entity. It, however, does not influence the choice which has been made and which is the basis for further work past third density in polarization. Those which have chosen the service-to-others* path have simply used the veiling process in order to potentiate that which is not. This is an entirely acceptable method of self-knowledge of and by the Creator.

* This should be service-to-self. Don and Ra corrected the error later in the session.

There was also one instance where it is in the query, and Ra totally sidesteps it:

79.31 Questioner: Would The Choice exist at this point during the creation of the first service-to-self polarity?

Ra: I am Ra. Implicit in the veiling or separation of two archetypes is the concept of choice. The refinements to this concept took many experiences.

Personally, I do not like these terms very much. I would prefer to call them.

Service-to-All and All-to-my-service

LOL, but Patrick, that's just it! Why do you think it never sounded right to your intuition?

What you are doing here is trying to invent your own layers of terminology and using a bit of mental gymnastics in order to not appear contradictory to Ra. I'm sorry, but I think that just adds confusion.

The good news is, Ra never said that. My feeling is that you actually have the right idea at heart, but you have somehow become confused by what I am talking about here. It is such a commonly assumed idea around the forum that many just accept on faith that Ra must have said it somewhere along the way. I'm pretty sure they didn't.

But don't take my word for it. By all means if you can find a quote where Ra is defining the terms Service-to-Others and Service-to-Self to constitute The Choice, please serve it up!

[βαθμιαίος]

I tend to agree with Patrick. Here are some quotes that, I believe, support the idea that the choice is a choice of polarities.

30.1 ...the polarities begin to be explored only at the point when a third-density entity becomes aware of the possibility of choice between the concept or distortion of service to self or service to others.

36.12 ...any guidance given by the higher self may be seen in either the positive or negative polarity depending upon the choice of a mind/body/spirit complex.

60.16 ...We were, in fact, a more philosophical third-density planet than your own and our choices of polarity were much more centered about the, shall we say, understanding of sexual energy transfers and the appropriate relationships between self and other-self.

77.16 ...The polarization or choosing of each mind/body/spirit is necessary for harvestability from third density.

77.14 Questioner: Then I am probably having a problem with the concept of time since it appears that the Logos was aware of the polarization choice. It seems that this choice for polarization at the end of third density is an important philosophical plan for the experience past third density. Am I correct in assuming that this process is a process to create the proper or desired experience that will take place in the creation after third density is complete?

Ra: I am Ra. These philosophical foundations are those of third density. Above this density there remains the recognition of the architecture of the Logos but without the veils which are so integral a part of the process of making the choice in third density.

Tenet, I'm curious: what do you see the choice as? A choice of what?

[GentleReckoning]

Personally, I do not like these terms very much. I would prefer to call them.

Service-to-All and All-to-my-service

You're right, Service to Self just sounds selfish.

"All to my service" sounds like much more fun!

Where do I sign up?

[Patrick]

I find your views on the subject fascinating Tenet. What brought me to the Ra material in the first place was my search to explain why "evil" exists.

I would like to know what is your personal explanation of why "evil" exists? Also, what do you believe is the choice that we come here to make?

Here's the thread where I discuss my views on the matter: http://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=4440

An evil entity does not open his heart chakra (green, compassion).

"The negative ray pattern is the red/orange/yellow moving directly to the blue, this (blue) being used only to contact intelligent infinity. (B2,78)"

"...the service-to-self choice is one which denies the very center of the spectrum; that being universal love. Therefore, all that is built upon the penetration of the light of harvestable quality by such entities is based upon an omission. This omission shall manifest in fourth density as the love of self; that is, the fullest expression of the orange and yellow energy centers which then are used to potentiate communication and adepthood.

When fifth-density refinement has been achieved that which is not is carried further, the wisdom density being explored by entities which have no compassion, no universal love. They experience that which they wish by free choice, being of the earnest opinion that green-ray energy is folly. (B4,91)

That which is not may be seen as a self-imposed darkness in which harmony is turned into an eternal disharmony. However, that which is not cannot endure throughout the octave and, as darkness eventually calls the light, so does that which is not eventually call that which is. (B4,92)"

As you can see here. Eventually both path becomes one again. This happens in 6th density.

Also, note that evil is called: "That which is not". Meaning that it is ultimately an illusion.

EVIL EXISTS TO SHOW US THAT WHICH WE ARE NOT !

---

...By all means if you can find a quote where Ra is defining the terms Service-to-Others and Service-to-Self to constitute The Choice, please serve it up!

I think Tobey already gave the perfect quote for this.

30.1 Questioner: I am going to make a statement and then let you correct it if I have made any errors. This is the statement: Creation is a single entity or unity. If only a single entity exists, then the only concept of service is service to self. If this single entity subdivides, then the concept of service of one of its parts to the other parts is born. From this concept springs the equality of service to self or to others. It would seem that as the Logos subdivided, parts would select each orientation. As individualized entities emerge in space/time then I would assume that they have polarity. Is this statement correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This statement is quite perceptive and correct until the final phrase in which we note that the polarities begin to be explored only at the point when a third-density entity becomes aware of the possibility of choice between the concept or distortion of service to self or service to others. This marks the end of what you may call the unself-conscious or innocent phase of conscious awareness.

I believe we can clearly see here that Ra makes a direct link in between the concepts of Polarities, STS, STO and The Choice. Also we can see that Ra considers correct that both choices are equal, since there is only One service, service to the Creator.

[Tenet Nosce]

...By all means if you can find a quote where Ra is defining the terms Service-to-Others and Service-to-Self to constitute The Choice, please serve it up!

I think Tobey already gave the perfect quote for this.

30.1 Questioner: I am going to make a statement and then let you correct it if I have made any errors. This is the statement: Creation is a single entity or unity. If only a single entity exists, then the only concept of service is service to self. If this single entity subdivides, then the concept of service of one of its parts to the other parts is born. From this concept springs the equality of service to self or to others. It would seem that as the Logos subdivided, parts would select each orientation. As individualized entities emerge in space/time then I would assume that they have polarity. Is this statement correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This statement is quite perceptive and correct until the final phrase in which we note that the polarities begin to be explored only at the point when a third-density entity becomes aware of the possibility of choice between the concept or distortion of service to self or service to others. This marks the end of what you may call the unself-conscious or innocent phase of conscious awareness.

ROFL! Oh you guys... YES this is a great quote. Read it again:

Creation is a single entity or unity. If only a single entity exists, then the only concept of service is service to self. If this single entity subdivides, then the concept of service of one of its parts to the other parts is born. From this concept springs the equality of service to self or to others.

This statement is quite perceptive and correct

Service... OF one of its parts to the other parts. Again, WHAT is being served is the question. Not WHO is being served.

I believe we can clearly see here that Ra makes a direct link in between the concepts of Polarities, STS, STO and The Choice.

No, what Ra does here is link the polarities to STS/STO. They aren't talking about "The Choice" here in this quote, or the other quotes provided above. Yes, they are using the word "choice" (with a little "c"), but "The Choice" with a capital "C" is a different concept.

Also we can see that Ra considers correct that both choices are equal, since there is only One service, service to the Creator.

Service OF the Creator.

---

Tenet, I'm curious: what do you see the choice as? A choice of what?

Before what, we should ask when. And when we ask when, we might realize what we really meant to ask is where.

Where is The Choice?

Ra put The Choice at the end of the deck. This is quite a revolutionary move IMO. Another one of those things that gets easily overlooked.

Does anybody else notice an obvious lack of any imagery in this card which would be suggestive of selecting one path of polarization over the other?

[Patrick]

Ok. Well I often like to say that we all see what we want to see. This is probably most efficiently demonstrated here for lurkers of this thread. We provide them with great examples.

Then I'll simply take this opportunity to bring back this quote that I like very much. In my oppinion, it explains well for the positive entities how a negative entity can remain negative even after the veil is removed. (source link)

...They do not understand love, charity, mercy, kindness, forgiveness or empathy. They do not know the meaning of these words. These words are foreign to them, and so are the emotional expressions that accompany them, for they do not possess the same inner strings as you do and therefore these notes cannot be plucked no matter how hard one tries to teach them the music, for they cannot hear the music and they will never willingly dance to it...

"they do not possess the same inner strings as you do" and this is due to the fact that they do not open their heart chakra. Even after 3d, they still choose to not open their heart.

I just can't understand this choice. I guess it's not my path.

[Tenet Nosce]

...They do not understand love, charity, mercy, kindness, forgiveness or empathy. They do not know the meaning of these words. These words are foreign to them, and so are the emotional expressions that accompany them, for they do not possess the same inner strings as you do and therefore these notes cannot be plucked no matter how hard one tries to teach them the music, for they cannot hear the music and they will never willingly dance to it...

"they do not possess the same inner strings as you do" and this is due to the fact that they do not open their heart chakra. Even after 3d, they still choose to not open their heart.

I just can't understand this choice. I guess it's not my path.

Yes, exactly! Those of the negative polarity simply are who they are. They are not really making a "choice" to be "bad guys". There was a negative seed planted in the soil of human 3D experience, and it grew into a negative plant.

Polarizing by way of the positive path comes just as natural to you, because you grew from a positive seed.

But, at the end of third density, the path thus far taken matters not. What matters is whether the plant grew enough to produce a flower.

I believe "The Choice" is the fertilization of that flower. It is an opening. An allowance. An acknowledgement of what is so.

What matters come harvest time is that polarization has occurred, not whether it is positive or negative. Remember:

When Alice went tumbling down the rabbit-hole into Wonderland, she entered a world of opposites. A world where that which was previously unified, became split into seeming dualities.

The positive and negative paths of polarization are one of those seeming dualities. They are paths of polarization, but not the polarization itself. Consider this: What do we call that which is attracted to the polarized entity?

If we are going to look outside the Ra Material for guidance, then I would serve these:

So that sense of either/or, of what you traditionally have thought of as yes or no, of duality, of polarity, is gone. It is the alignment. The entire journey in this third-dimensional existence is reaching this place of alignment, of placing yourself beyond the either/or. And when you are doing that in this ascension process, it is like a Roman candle: off you go.

In that moment, what we are calling a moment, there is a choice. … And it can happen instantaneously, because so many of you have laid the foundation — do you want to be in the heart of one of love? Do you wish to be in the higher frequency?

In the very last second, all they need to say is yes, and allow themselves to be flooded by what you can think of as a tidal wave of energy that will sweep the planet.

[Patrick]

So basically, you are saying that The Choice is pretty much an illusion, because each Self already has its biases and so it would be possible to know in advance that they will choose either negative or positive based on those biases ?

But Ra stated that entities can and do change their polarities...

[Tenet Nosce]

So basically, you are saying that The Choice is pretty much an illusion,

Oh, no. I am saying that The Choice is precisely where the illusion and reality meet. You are still assuming that The Choice is making a decision between the two paths of polarization.

But Ra stated that entities can and do change their polarities...

They do? Where? I believe Don says that, not Ra.

36.15 Questioner: Well then let’s say that when Himmler reaches sixth-density negative, would he realize that his Higher Self was positively oriented and for that reason make the jump from negative to positive orientation?

Ra: I am Ra. This is incorrect. The sixth-density negative entity is extremely wise. It observes the spiritual entropy occurring due to the lack of ability to express the unity of sixth density. Thus, loving the Creator and realizing at some point that the Creator is not only self but other-self as self, this entity consciously chooses an instantaneous energy reorientation so that it may continue its evolution.

What they are saying here is that polarization by means of the negative path is only possible up to a point. That point is in sixth density. Not here in third density.

89.40 Questioner: What was the attitude of these two entities after they graduated into-fourth density negative and, the veil being removed, realized that they had switched polarities?

Ra: I am Ra. They were disconcerted.

Again, Don says this, not Ra. I think there has been some widespread confusion here with terminology. It has become commonplace to refer to the two paths of polarization as the polarities. This is due to a confused query, in 93.3.

Questioner: Thank you. You have stated previously that the foundation of our present illusion is the concept of polarity. I would like to ask, since we [those of L/L Research] have defined the two polarities as service to others and service to self, is there a more complete or eloquent or enlightening definition of these polarities or any more information that we don’t have at this time that you could give on the two ends of the poles that would give us a better insight into the nature of polarity itself?

Ra: I am Ra. It is unlikely that there is a more pithy or eloquent description of the polarities of third density than service to others and service to self due to the nature of the mind/body/spirit complexes’ distortions towards perceiving concepts relating to philosophy in terms of ethics or activity. However, we [those of Ra] might consider the polarities using slightly variant terms. In this way a possible enrichment of insight might be achieved for some.

One might consider the polarities with the literal nature enjoyed by the physical polarity of the magnet. The negative and positive, with their electrical characteristics, may be seen to be just as in the physical sense. It is to be noted in this context that it is quite impossible to judge the polarity of an act or an entity, just as it is impossible to judge the relative goodness of the negative and positive poles of the magnet.

Another method of viewing polarities might involve the concept of radiation/absorption. That which is positive is radiant; that which is negative is absorbent.

... and in 94.4 we see that Don is still very much confused.

Questioner: Now, if I understand correctly, prior to the veiling process the electrical polarities, the polarities of radiation and absorption, all existed in some part of the creation, but the service-to-others/service-to-self polarity with which we are familiar had not evolved and only showed up after the veiling process as an addition to the list of possible polarities in the creation. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. No.

If a piece of iron becomes polarized into a magnet, other pieces of nonpolarized iron will be attracted to it. It matters not which end of the magnet one decides to employ to attract the nonpolarized iron.

[zenmaster]

An evil entity does not open his heart chakra (green, compassion).

"The negative ray pattern is the red/orange/yellow moving directly to the blue, this (blue) being used only to contact intelligent infinity. (B2,78)"

I think Ra made another mistake here and meant violet instead of blue.

[Tenet Nosce]

Polarization of magnets has to do with the alignment of the molecules. Polarization of minds has to do with the alignment of identity.

Do we see see self as other? Or other as self? This is an inherent bias within our consciousness. If we gain enough awareness of our consciousness, we may decide to contemplate the "other path" as a means of accelerating our spiritual development. This is all fine and good. But I am suggesting those decisions aren't what is termed "The Choice" in the philosophy of those of Ra.

Polarization comes from the alignment of the mind along one of two primary perceptions of reality. These are the two paths of polarization. Yes, they exist and there is some tangible difference between the two. Most notably, each contains wisdom that cannot be attained on the other.

But "The Choice" is something that occurs where the mind has made contact with intelligent infinity.

Of course, I am theorizing about this as I have not yet perceived myself in contact with intelligent infinity or having made The Choice. But this is, nevertheless, what I am saying is my read of the material. And I, being me, would naturally happen to agree with my read of the material.

---

An evil entity does not open his heart chakra (green, compassion).

"The negative ray pattern is the red/orange/yellow moving directly to the blue, this (blue) being used only to contact intelligent infinity. (B2,78)"

I think Ra made another mistake here and meant violet instead of blue.

That's very interesting. I did not fully notice that before. Although I can recall my mind becoming confused by that sentence on more than one occasion.

[zenmaster]

An evil entity does not open his heart chakra (green, compassion).

"The negative ray pattern is the red/orange/yellow moving directly to the blue, this (blue) being used only to contact intelligent infinity. (B2,78)"

I think Ra made another mistake here and meant violet instead of blue.

That's very interesting. I did not fully notice that before. Although I can recall my mind becoming confused by that sentence on more than one occasion.

Probably wasn't corrected because Don didn't ask for clarification about it and no one responsible for delivering Ra's message felt it was important enough to change.

[GentleReckoning]

I feel like people here don't appreciate their STS brethren like they should. Just imagine the wealth of experiences that they will bring to our group consciousness when they willingly reunite with the infinite. It's certainly a path that I wouldn't wish to take, and I'm sure not going to facilitate their growth... However, I can certainly appreciate the great catalyst they bring along with their eventual contribution to infinity.

[Cyan]

I have some experience with being on the STS side of things intentionally but am hesitant to share the "heart" of what it felt like and why it felt like that... Mostly because it may make me imagine that i have been there more than i have been there and through that, make me more of that.

I'll ponder this and if i decide it is appropriate i will post some of my musings on why STS entities, from my own STS to STO perspective, do not open the heart.. But, as i said, without knowing my actual polarity it is impossile to say if it is actually true or not. I'll consider it while in class today and post if i feel it is appropriate.

[zenmaster]

I feel like people here don't appreciate their STS brethren like they should.

How could you possibly say that after all the seemingly well considered discussions on the subject?

[Patrick]

Ah well Tenet, I do not understand how you arrived at this point of view from reading the Ra material, but I find this very interesting.

I had no expectations, that I can remember, when I read the Ra material the first time. I had just awakened to spirituality. Since then I read multiple other "versions" of the truth. Some of them being quite different from the Ra material.

But I find that my current understanding of the Ra material gives me the most helpful view of the Creation.

Now, I would like to understand your point of view better. So I will ask a couple questions if you don't mind.

1) Do you believe in true free will ?

2) Do you believe that there is such a thing as objective Truth ?

3) If you answered yes to 2, do you believe it is possible to be aware of the objective Truth while being incarnated in veiled 3d ?

4) If you answered yes to 3, do you believe that becoming aware of the objective Truth while incarnated in veiled 3d would instantly dispel the illusion ?

Thank you my friend!

---

Here is a list of synonyms I built in the past for the polarities.

Control/Fear <-> Acceptance/Compassion
Absorption <-> Radiance
Ego <-> Presence
Negative <-> Positive
"Evil" <-> "Good"
Service-to-Self <-> Service-to-Others

[Cyan]

1) Do you believe in true free will ?

2) Do you believe that there is such a thing as objective Truth ?

3) If you answered yes to 2, do you believe it is possible to be aware of the objective Truth while being incarnated in veiled 3d ?

Thank you my friend!

Not directed at me but will answer anyway.

1: yes.

2: yes.

3: yes but essentially uselless.

[Patrick]

...
3: yes but essentially uselless.

Do you believe that becoming aware of the objective Truth while incarnated in veiled 3d would instantly dispel the illusion ?

[Cyan]

...
3: yes but essentially uselless.

Do you believe that becoming aware of the objective Truth while incarnated in veiled 3d would instantly dispel the illusion ?

Oh gods no. At most it would make you freak out tremendously, then laugh at freaking out tremendously, then forget why you freaked out tremendously and go eat some twinkies. Ofcourse i jest but the truth is there.

[Patrick]

...
3: yes but essentially uselless.

Do you believe that becoming aware of the objective Truth while incarnated in veiled 3d would instantly dispel the illusion ?

Oh gods no. At most it would make you freak out tremendously, then laugh at freaking out tremendously, then forget why you freaked out tremendously and go eat some twinkies. Ofcourse i jest but the truth is there.

That's interesting. My answers are 1 Yes, 2 Yes, 3 No, 4 n/a. I believe our awareness of Truth can only be subjective until our awareness is back to being the One Infinite Creator.

[AnthroHeart]

I thought it was pretty much a given that all is illusion except the one infinte creator.
Except Bashar says that only experience is real.

[Cyan]

I believe our awareness of Truth can only be subjective until our awareness is back to being the One Infinite Creator.

And that would be the absolute truth, as the one infinite creator has no opinion / truth, because it has no preference, were it to have a preference, points counter to its preference would not exist, unless their existence is its preference, in which case we are its preference, in which case when are we getting back...

See what i mean and why i think thats the "objective" truth. The statement/search for the objective truth loops. I hope this makes enough sense for you to understand my viewpoint in this.

[Tenet Nosce]

Ah well Tenet, I do not understand how you arrived at this point of view from reading the Ra material, but I find this very interesting.

So here we are. Equally perplexed at each other's read of the material. But, for the most part, on the same page with respect to our ethical stance. And yet, there is only one of us here.

Now THAT is a mystery, my web friend!

1) Do you believe in true free will ?

Yes. But I don't think it is what most people think it is. According to the Ra material, free will is defined as the first distortion. Another one of those all-too-easily-glossed-over little factoids.

I believe free will is acquired by incarnation, but rarely exercised within it. For example, making a decision to be helpful to one's brothers and sisters is very nice and admirable. But there isn't much free will involved.

Free will has potentiated, both the Creator of us all and our selves as co-Creators with intelligent infinity which has will. This will may be drawn upon by the indigo or form-making body and its wisdom used to then choose the appropriate locus and type of experience which this co-Creator or sub-sub-Logos you call so carelessly a person will take.

2) Do you believe that there is such a thing as objective Truth ?

Yes. The Law of One.

3) If you answered yes to 2, do you believe it is possible to be aware of the objective Truth while being incarnated in veiled 3d ?

Well, we are certainly aware of it, so yes. However, there is a rather vast expanse or bridge between our awareness of it, and our experience of it. This is where faith comes in.

4) If you answered yes to 3, do you believe that becoming aware of the objective Truth while incarnated in veiled 3d would instantly dispel the illusion ?

I believe what you are talking about here, in terms of the Ra material, is called contact with intelligent infinity. Thus:

The experience of each entity is unique in perception of intelligent infinity. Perceptions range from a limitless joy to a strong dedication to service to others while in the incarnated state. The entity which reaches intelligent infinity most often will perceive this experience as one of unspeakable profundity. However, it is not usual for the entity to immediately desire the cessation of the incarnation. Rather the desire to communicate or use this experience to aid others is extremely strong.

Therefore, the "desire to communicate or use this experience to aid others" would most likely result in one making The Choice to continue to experience the illusion in some form. Although that distortion is not in any case necessary.

Thank you my friend!

Thank you.

[Patrick]

What I find interesting is that before the veil, people had the choice of not polarizing (stagnation) or polarizing positively. To be harvested from 3d you had to start caring about others a bit more than you do about yourself. But there was no concept of exploiting others, removing the will of others or slavery, because all knew that all were the Creator.

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...According to the Ra material, free will is defined as the first distortion...

Indeed and it gave rise automatically to manyness.

I believe free will is acquired by incarnation, but rarely exercised within it. For example, making a decision to be helpful to one's brothers and sisters is very nice and admirable. But there isn't much free will involved.

I believe we have immense freewill while incarnated (not 100%) and the rest was chosen before incarnating. So that amounts to 100% freewill in my opinion.

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Something else I find interesting is that since I started participating in this thread, I have become the target of strong psychic greetings. Particularly, my legs and feet are freezing. I see this as a good sign.

A part of the Creator is not happy with our exchange.

[Tenet Nosce]

Something else I find interesting is that since I started participating in this thread, I have become the target of strong psychic greetings. Particularly, my legs and feet are freezing. I see this as a good sign.

http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/is..._0228.aspx

However, a significant amount of suffering or any extreme emotion along certain lines, either positively or negatively polarized, can and does create an aura or nimbus of like weak thoughtforms which together seek then to become the psychic vampire, taking the energy needed for independent survival, if they are negatively polarized, from the fear of others; if they are positively polarized, from the awe, love and compassion of others.

There is no entrance for surrounding negative auras into the experience of one who, by the habit of positive thought, does not express itself in terms of negative emotions which may then provide food for those vampiric entities called negative thoughtforms.

[Patrick]

Indeed I have been stepping up my efforts for healing Carla by a great margin lately. All my chakras were warm and well felt. So of course, this attracts these little friends.