Guardians from the Octave above

[kycahi]

But jokes aside - does understanding of LOO directly implies that you are living it, hence making the choice? And I thought that Wanderers, who submitted themselves to 3D rules, are subjects to the same rules in order to graduate as the natives? Otherwise it would, for instance, not be any risks for, say, negative Wanderers to enter the forgetfulness, if Wanderers are not subjects to the Harvest rules.

Good question. I'm not sure that anybody living in the 3D "understands" the LOO, even Wanderers from 6D, say. I've lived with it for decades and can't say I understand it the way the Ra gang does. At best, I can say that what I do grok about the LOO resonates with what I was thinking already. I WANT to see everyone else as The One, therefore fully deserving my love and respect, but that doesn't mean that I do it all the time. I'm better at it now than years ago, though.

Ra said that Wanderers are subject to 3D harvest rules, so if a Wanderer ends up getting so full of himself that he discards STO, he would have to go around at least one more time to Choose it or STS. Either that or he went so far off the STO path that he Chose STS, then he would harvest to 4D as STS even though he had been maybe 5D or 6D STO. (I used the masculine pronoun because I respect females too much to think they would go that far astray. )

:idea: Hmm, maybe I just arrived at why so many Wanderers subjected selves to poor self-esteem, ADD, depressive disorder, bipolar etc. in this density: "Lead me not into temptation, dammit!"

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i just don't get it. how can it make sense to us? not that all of it does.

Just so. Now you understand, grasshopper!

Sorry. What I mean to say is that you don't have to get it, and it doesn't have to make sense. In fact, everybody in these forums is grasping here, guessing there because we CAN'T get it totally. We're in the 3D.

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i don't live LOO. i haven't chosen i think. you still have to choose.

Whether you Chose yet or not, Ocean, I choose to like you.

[Ankh]

:idea: Hmm, maybe I just arrived at why so many Wanderers subjected selves to poor self-esteem, ADD, depressive disorder, bipolar etc. in this density: "Lead me not into temptation, dammit!"

:idea:

What I mean to say is that you don't have to get it, and it doesn't have to make sense. In fact, everybody in these forums is grasping here, guessing there because we CAN'T get it totally. We're in the 3D.

We can totally "3D get it"!

[Tenet Nosce]

OH MAN! A+ Reference, A Wrinkle In Time is an amazing novel, and eerily syncronitic with our current state! I agree with you 100%, the Guardians appear to help the harvest in a way that will help all in future harvests.

Yeah, thanks! Definitely timely... thank Netflix . I was looking around the other day and saw the movie. I didn't even know they had made a movie!

So my girlfriend and I turn it on... and both fall asleep. We knew it must be good then as we have a running joke/observation that sometimes when about to be hit with a great spiritual truth the brain just simply shuts down.

Actually the book first re-emerged in my mind while doing some research on Edward Bulwer-Lytton, where someone had noted that the line "It was a dark and stormy night..." was the first line of his Paul Clifford, but also A Wrinkle In Time.

Then, not too long after that I noticed it on Netflix. It could have been there all along, but I still think I would have noticed it before. I read that book several times as a kid.

What is really bizarre is that I have been led back to it somewhat obliquely after not really thinking about it for at least a decade... yet somehow the concepts in this book have both stayed with me this whole time, as well as are immediately pertinent. I had no idea this single book affected my mind so much.

For example, I have commented several times over the past few months that I wished people understood more that treating people as equals does not mean treating them the same. Straight out of the book: "Like and equal are not the same thing at all!"

Another quip I spout off every now and again is that "a straight line is not the shortest distance between two points". Again right out of the book.

Down the rabbit hole from there, literally, the research I was working on had to do with the idea that many of the "ET" groups are not extraterrestrial at all, but subterranean. Living here on earth with us since before the cataclysm... and no they do not all have the best interests of the surface dwellers at the forefront of their minds right now.

Some very interesting research that has been coming out about the Interstellar Boundary kind of tipped me in the direction of an idea that I had already been leaning to- namely that advanced beings do not fly around interstellar space in metallic machines. Again, originally from the book.

Which "coincidentally" led me back hear after reading a post by Hatonn about our "space friends" showing up in their "space craft" to lend us a hand. Sorry, but I am a bit skeptical of that, if you know what I mean.

I wonder what the Guardians would have to say about this?

[3DMonkey]

Yep. Netflix.

[unity100]

- not everyone's lessons are the lesson of choicemaking in 3d.

Is that your own perception or you found something in the material that makes you think that way?

i already outlined the 2 bits of information that were in the material that lead to my conclusion, not to mention my own observations, or basic logic of what we have been taught.

In Ras quote, he says one must coinsiously understand that you DON'T understand. We are all Human, regardless of where we were before coming to 3d earth. We ALL have to admit that we don't understand. I get what your saying unity, but Ra makes it pretty clear.

in case you didnt notice, what you speak above does not say anything about NOT attempting to understand.

the point some of you have been going, was in that direction - 'we cant understand'.

it is the very fact that you dont understand, you need to come to a place where you can learn and understand. this is the entire point of existence, leave aside 3d anyway.

why can't you think you understand?

Turtle hit the nail on the head. Its not that I don't believe I Semi understand far advanced concepts. But I coinsiously understand that my knowledge of the universe is comparable to a grain of sand on an endless beech

and so, you are choosing not to attempt to understand ....

My reading of unity's post says that most everyone in the b4th community are Wanderers or equivalent and, therefore, made their Choice back when they were native to 3D.

more or less, as such.

IMHO, few or no native 3Ders will be attracted to this information because it looks kooky, bizarre, unintelligible, or not applicable to their situations.

leave aside that, the choicemaking involves other-selves. and a 3d entity is not an entity which is able to manufacture its own catalyst without need from other selves to a great degree. it is not like a 5, 6d entity which can wander in thought/feeling with the tiniest of fluctuations in its psyche, or, easily attracting a thought/feeling from time/space when concentrating on it.

so, 3d entities would need situations, events, interaction with other entities. if you add the choicemaking necessity to this, it becomes a pronounced necessity that these entities mostly deal with situations involving other selves during their experience.

it is of course possible that any 3d entity gets interested in this information, but, bulk of their work is less likely to be with this information.

But jokes aside - does understanding of LOO directly implies that you are living it, hence making the choice? And I thought that Wanderers, who submitted themselves to 3D rules, are subjects to the same rules in order to graduate as the natives? Otherwise it would, for instance, not be any risks for, say, negative Wanderers to enter the forgetfulness, if Wanderers are not subjects to the Harvest rules.

these are big, broad questions, each a discussion topic probably.

But jokes aside - does understanding of LOO directly implies that you are living it, hence making the choice?

actions speak louder than words. understanding is one thing, acting accordingly another. but, for those who understand it, not acting along will directly bring results in regard to law of responsibility. they may choose to undergo the burdens that law brings and live on. if an entity understands, it is highly possible that it is not a native 3d entity.

And I thought that Wanderers, who submitted themselves to 3D rules, are subjects to the same rules in order to graduate as the natives?

mention of wanderer returning to its native density was in the material. if an entity did not get caught up in the planetary vibration, and reduced its spiritual biases perpetually to 3d vibrations, it is still a wanderer. i dont think any kind of graduation is applicable.

otherwise does not hold correct - if a wanderer immediately became a 3d entity entirely, subject to harvest, graduation from 3d and whatnot, it would mean that the entity would undergo the entire route from 3d to wherever it came from, again. no such thing exists, therefore, wanderers' situation in an 3d planet is different - unless, they make themselves 3d again, by getting tangled.

[3DMonkey]

In Ras quote, he says one must coinsiously understand that you DON'T understand. We are all Human, regardless of where we were before coming to 3d earth. We ALL have to admit that we don't understand. I get what your saying unity, but Ra makes it pretty clear.

in case you didnt notice, what you speak above does not say anything about NOT attempting to understand.

the point some of you have been going, was in that direction - 'we cant understand'.

it is the very fact that you dont understand, you need to come to a place where you can learn and understand. this is the entire point of existence, leave aside 3d anyway.

The point still remains- In all your acquisitions of understandings, no matter how full your bank is, no matter how much you think you have "grasped", you must still consciously realize that you do not understand in order to be harvestable.

Do you understand the Law of One?

If your answer is "yes", then you will not be harvestable.

[Bring4th_Austin]

The point still remains- In all your acquisitions of understandings, no matter how full your bank is, no matter how much you think you have "grasped", you must still consciously realize that you do not understand in order to be harvestable.

Do you understand the Law of One?

If your answer is "yes", then you will not be harvestable.

Striving for understanding and understanding are two different things. If learning about the Law of One was a pointless venture in 3D, Ra would not have transmitted 5 books worth of material on the very subject.

And, you'll notice, their answer to every question wasn't simply, "All is One."

[111]

Actually Ras quote is pretty general. It dosent say One must coinsiously understand that you don't understand the LOO... It just says that we don't understand. And Not to not strive for it. I'm sure we can all agree we wouldn't be posting in this forum if we didn't wanna understand as much as we can. Its a part of letting go of the "I can know it all" ego and just going with the flow.

[3DMonkey]

Unity100 has spun this to be about not striving to understand. He stands alone in accusing members of trying to avoid understanding. I believe each one of you striving to reach the light.

Actual understanding is fifth. That's clear enough.

THINKING I understand is explicitly an orange-yellow mixture.

To "consciously realize I do not understand", IMO, is to release my self, to let go of all I THINK I understand, to give my self up to the higher light, and to open my self to infinty by faith and acceptance of all that is.

The quote isn't about realizing I have much more to learn. To me, it is about realizing that there isn't anything to learn.

Again, to THINK I understand is an anchor tied to orange and yellow vibrations.

---

For instance, to claim that I have assessed that I Understand what the purpose and point of Ra providing information is a practice in restricting my self to finite intelligence.

---

It's a way of saying "that's not possible", and who can be harvestable if they don't believe in possibilities?

[Bring4th_Austin]

Sorry 3DM, I read this:

The point still remains- In all your acquisitions of understandings, no matter how full your bank is, no matter how much you think you have "grasped", you must still consciously realize that you do not understand in order to be harvestable.

To mean that it is basically pointless to try to understand. I inaccurately read beyond your words.


But, from earlier in the thread, I felt the notion that exploring the illusion beyond the idea "All is One" is in itself keeping the illusion in place (mainly in Azreal's post). That's really the point I'm trying to get across: to unravel the illusion we must strive to understand it. We can sit and meditate all day and say "All is One," but to reach for understanding we must ask, "Then why doesn't it seem that way?" I don't feel asking that question is what is keeping us in the illusion.

[unity100]

We can sit and meditate all day and say "All is One," but to reach for understanding we must ask,

exactly.

[3DMonkey]

what Azrael, and maybe even me currently, has been consistent with is that limiting self is not desirable.

I think I might be saying that to "think I understand" is a huge reason why the illusion exists to begin with. It's a yellow Ray, 3D distortion of intelligent energy. To continue to think understanding can be put into a box, for lack of a better analogy, actually shapes and creates the box itself.

I love you.

[Tenet Nosce]

16.37 Questioner: I am assuming that it is not necessary for an individual to understand the Law of One to go from the third to the fourth density. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. It is absolutely necessary that an entity consciously realize it does not understand in order for it to be harvestable. Understanding is not of this density.

Looking at this Q&A closely- it seems more to me like there is a loss of communication here over the word understand. I think the Questioner was also confused here, resulting in an indirect answer from Ra.

Remember, this is a transmission, the clarity of which is dependent upon fluctuations in the energy state of the channeler, the group, the planet, the sun, etc. Honestly, I think some folks might be reading too much into it.

To me, the Law of One is not something you "understand", it is something THAT IS. The Law of One is nothing more than a statement of the most fundamental truth of the universe: Everything is Connected. That's all it is. The "thousand things" that we can ponder and debate about are secondary to this one fundamental immutable truth.

Everything is Connected. It is a lens through which an entity observes the world around them.

What is impossible to understand [from behind the veil] is how this one singular being/thing is not just philosophically but literally everything that exists. That is the Great Mystery. 3D is like the "little" mystery.

In moving from a 3D to 4D consciousness, it is neither necessary nor possible for an entity to have full awareness about its identity with all of Creation.

However, an entity can, through an act of faith and belief, live as though it were connected to everything else. This is what I think the Questioner was getting at. Is it necessary for a person to consciously know and believe in the Law of One in order to progress? Or does your average Jane, who is kind-hearted and of service to her family and community, but does not consciously meditate upon the Law of One also stand a chance?

Ra is not directly answering this question. I think Ra is coming from the angle of- it is impossible to prove or disprove the Law of One from within 3D. At least to others. I know from experience that, if asked, the universe will find a way to prove it to you personally. But it is always in a way that makes easy for plausible deniability to come in when attempting to communicate it to others.

So if a person thinks that they "have the proof" or "know the answer" from here within 3D, that belief is actually a stumbling block to graduation.

This is not at all to say that a person is incapable of mentally comprehending the concept that All Is One, and living their life accordingly.

[zenmaster]

Ra had commented that the term 'understand' was an inadequate word for the concept it attemtps to relate, along with 'ego' for example. The spirit of the comment of non-understanding is related to how our experience is personally accepted by our consciousness - even as we 'demote its relevance' by qualifying it as subjective or relative.

[Oceania]

I think a great metaphor is provided for in A Wrinkle In Time. I can think of no better comparison for my idea of the contrast between a 4D positive, and a 4D negative world. It is easy to see how, in the beginning, it might be difficult to perceive the difference between one and the other. Well now that I think about it, that's probably where I got the idea from in the first place.

Collective

I tried to watch the movie the other day with my children. I had no idea it was a book. I walked in with no preconceived idea of what it was. Of course, I didn't know there was such a "dark" part of the film, and I turned it off at that point (for children's sake).

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- not everyone's lessons are the lesson of choicemaking in 3d.

Is that your own perception or you found something in the material that makes you think that way?

My reading of unity's post says that most everyone in the b4th community are Wanderers or equivalent and, therefore, made their Choice back when they were native to 3D.

IMHO, few or no native 3Ders will be attracted to this information because it looks kooky, bizarre, unintelligible, or not applicable to their situations. Also, as the LOO material helps with understanding and Ra themselves said no true 3Ders have understanding pre-Harvest, the LOO, L/L Research and Bring4th are not for them. I never thought about this, but it makes sense now. So I guess I'll promote myself to Wanderer status.

That's interesting. It has not been my perspective. It is very interesting to say that none would even take a look. Very interesting. Especially after I was babbling about being surrounded by people who would never heed such material. As though, if I'm a wanderer, I'm tired of being different. Huh. (repetition) Very Interesting.

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i don't live LOO. i haven't chosen i think. you still have to choose.

I've pounded myself with this thought.

At some point, I http://www.bring4th.org/forums/images/sm...ifrealized I had made the choice. When I took a good look at how I interpreted my self, I could see I made the choice. Now!, I am not "good" at putting my choice into play, so to speak. If skill at applying the choice is what matters, I'm in trouble. I don't think skill does matter.

And even though I've tried to think that the choice is made with complete awareness of myself, I'm loosening my grip on that.

i dunno. i just know i'm acting mighty STS for someone reading LOO. but i dunno how else to be. i would *like* to make the choice if it wasn't so darn hard. it feels like staying in 3D is the only rational choice if 4D is either pinhead pyramid or bending over backwards to please people. i can't even manage normal decency.

[3DMonkey]

Are you running around in the public park, nude, with your arms waving overhead?

You are doing fine

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49% is a big percentage that is acceptible.

[Oceania]

ha, you're such a wordpick.

[Unbound]

That is just it, as soon as you think you know yourself you've created a limited view.

[Oceania]

i like limits, they define beauty as something unique. it's like that vulcan game of Kal-Toh.

[3DMonkey]

Ra had commented that the term 'understand' was an inadequate word for the concept it attemtps to relate

"understand" being a fifth D reality, really places it way up there. Knowing that 5D "understanding" gives the ability to form anything out of light, really makes Ra's statement even 'louder'.

(I didn't quite get what the meaning of the rest of your post, zenmaster)

---

That is just it, as soon as you think you know yourself you've created a limited view.

A new wall of the box to occupy my existence by trying to tear it down or scale it.

[kycahi]

i dunno. i just know i'm acting mighty STS for someone reading LOO. but i dunno how else to be. i would *like* to make the choice if it wasn't so darn hard. it feels like staying in 3D is the only rational choice if 4D is either pinhead pyramid or bending over backwards to please people. i can't even manage normal decency.

I give you complete respect in this. You are struggling with more than one thing, perhaps, or maybe somebody can refine it to one. You don't want to Choose without first knowing all of the implications of it and, if you already did Choose STO, then why do you not do more in that service?

I won't give a dumb answer, so I won't give any advice at all. I will say that STO is not trying to please anyone. It's seeing their hurt and wanting to ease it. They may not smile at you for trying, but if they do get better or not, at least you tried.

If you think you are too f*cked up to be helpful to anyone and only want to find your way in this catalytic world, then so be it. I will help if I can and at least I see where you are, Ocean.

Maybe you are a Wanderer who went astray in a previous 3D life, so here you are back to recover from that mistake. That would explain your focusing on yourself yet finding the LOO and these forums fascinating. If this resonates, then I'm sure lots of us will have questions.

[3DMonkey]

That is just it, as soon as you think you know yourself you've created a limited view.

A new wall of the box to occupy my existence by trying to tear it down or scale it.

[Oceania]

thanks Ky. i think that makes some sorta sense, although i dunno why i was so bad at living now if i was here before. but i guess what makes me focus on me is my OCD and other mental problems, so far they have catalyzed me positive in a sense, but i feel like i've gotten the point and now it's just harmful and depolarizing. it makes me bend towards STS because i'm so agitated by my physical environment. so i get angry and controlling with all things that affect me in it. and i dunno how to cure it. i feel like i can't help anyone, or even be a neutral force. i'm just doing damage by existing and feel like failure cuz i've always wanted to be a good person. i used to imagine being a millionaire and helping lots of people but i can't even manage to live by myself. and the LOO just does not mention how to overcome such things. :/

sorry about whining. i'm so frustrated with LOO right now.

[Unbound]

That's okay Oceania, it's always your own choice when you're ready to take the next step!

[Ankh]

mention of wanderer returning to its native density was in the material. if an entity did not get caught up in the planetary vibration, and reduced its spiritual biases perpetually to 3d vibrations, it is still a wanderer. i dont think any kind of graduation is applicable.

otherwise does not hold correct - if a wanderer immediately became a 3d entity entirely, subject to harvest, graduation from 3d and whatnot, it would mean that the entity would undergo the entire route from 3d to wherever it came from, again. no such thing exists, therefore, wanderers' situation in an 3d planet is different - unless, they make themselves 3d again, by getting tangled.

That was extremely interesting. If we put aside those Wanderers who get cought up in karma or make different deals with Council or whoever it is for various amount of incarnations/missions upon Earth, but consider only those Wanderers who do not remember who they are and do not "wake up" during their incarnation (which is stated in the material to be a majority) – there must be something in the creation/construction of the polarity and the choice making of this density that will/can nevertheless "take them home". If this Wanderer serves only, say, 50% or less, to others – do you believe that s/he will still walk those "steps of light" all the way to the homedensity? Or shall this Wanderer who doesn't even remember who s/he is repeat the 3rd density until graduation from that density is achieved? Before one takes further "steps of light" to the homedensity, there is still a barrier from the third density, which is said to be crossed achieving a certain vibration that acts as a "key" (to, perhaps, intelligent infinity), and that vibration is in 3rd density mind complex which Wanderer submits itself to/agrees upon; and that vibration is said to be raised by polarisation/choice making/service.

Understanding can be of different levels. You can "understand" that there is rocket science, which doesn't mean that you actually understand that science. Thus, talking/discussing the Law of One in a forum, doesn't necessarily imply that a Wanderer understands/realizes/is able of to integrate that Law deep within itself, and further starts to act/live thereafter, which will rapidly polarize that Wanderer. The Law of Responsibility will also be applied here somewhere. I have not understood that Law fully yet; when and how and what does it mean exactly, except that deep understanding/realization within, will probably automatically make you responsible for your thoughts/actions etc... I think.

[kycahi]

i feel like i can't help anyone, or even be a neutral force. i'm just doing damage by existing and feel like failure cuz i've always wanted to be a good person. i used to imagine being a millionaire and helping lots of people but i can't even manage to live by myself. and the LOO just does not mention how to overcome such things. :/

sorry about whining. i'm so frustrated with LOO right now.

I think that the LOO is information about the structures of the universe and something about each part (i.e. levels / colors, etc.)

I think you are asking for help in different ways, in these forums, and we participants want to respond in a helpful way, but know our and the forums' limits.

Try asking Higher Self, but not in a general way. Rather than "What's wrong? I'm hurting here," try something specific and first step-ish. Maybe just that, like "Can you give me a nudge in the right direction? What comes first? I promise to give it my best shot, if you give me a clue." If you feel like you got nothing after a reasonable wait, then tell HS to try something different or show you why you were not open to the answer.

Of course, the old standby best start is to meditate. If you try and fail after 30 seconds, wait till tomorrow and try again for another 30, maybe stretch it to 45 or 60. HS will give you credit for attempting and reward you somehow, so keep at it:exclamation:

[unity100]

If this Wanderer serves only, say, 50% or less, to others – do you believe that s/he will still walk those "steps of light" all the way to the homedensity? Or shall this Wanderer who doesn't even remember who s/he is repeat the 3rd density until graduation from that density is achieved? Before one takes further "steps of light" to the homedensity, there is still a barrier from the third density, which is said to be crossed achieving a certain vibration that acts as a "key" (to, perhaps, intelligent infinity), and that vibration is in 3rd density mind complex which Wanderer submits itself to/agrees upon; and that vibration is said to be raised by polarisation/choice making/service.

spiritual biases are the real, fundamental biases of the entity.

situation of the wanderer would probably depend on the situation of the entity in spirit complex, after incarnation.

The Law of Responsibility will also be applied here somewhere. I have not understood that Law fully yet; when and how and what does it mean exactly, except that deep understanding/realization within, will probably automatically make you responsible for your thoughts/actions etc... I think.

the most important aspect of law of responsibility in regard to this topic is, you are responsible with what you consciously or conscientiously understand.

[3DMonkey]

the most important aspect of law of responsibility in regard to this topic is, you are responsible with what you consciously or conscientiously understand.

I don't think the Law of Responsibility has anything to do with being responsible any more that the Law of One has to do with being One or the Law of Confusion has to do with being confused.

"Law of", IMO, is closer to saying 'universal properties governing'. In this case, Responsibility is a factor of lessons dealing with treatment of others.

I am saying this because I hope we don't deceive others by using the term Law of Responsibility to mean "act responsibly under the 'Law' "

The Law of Responsibility is : as we draw closer to Light we come closer to a place where we have dealings with others and we and others are under the same universal governing processes of these dealings, which help provide necessary lessons for this very density and its proximity to the Light.

.... As I understand it

[Oceania]

Unity's Judge Dredd!

[111]

@Unity, Out of curiosity and to keep with the orriginal topic of this forum. How do you connect the Law of Responsibility to the Guardians from the Octave above??